(00:00:02) Thank you, Jay Thomas. Good afternoon. Everyone indeed house Speaker. Harry sieben has gaveled the chamber to order just about two minutes ago and the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. Mike's. Eben is going through an explanation right now of the budget cuts in the bill. We will go to him for his explanation. We might explain that the reason the debate got underway a little bit late is because one of the dfl members of the house was late in arriving at the Capitol today, the unfortunate representative apparently had car trouble and that's what held up the debate with just a to vote Edge, which is really just been trimmed to 1 volt because one member of the house is absent the dfl errs have 69 votes 68 are needed to pass a bill and if no independent Republicans vote for the package as we think is going to happen. The dfl is going to be 1/2. Have to be just about completely United in order to get this bill through now House Appropriations Committee chairman. Mike sieben is going through an explanation of the budget cuts in the bill. So let's go to the house floor and pick up on that (00:01:14) explanation. Yeah, the final area involves delay in implementing the colera cost of living increases for GA and afdc recipients the second feature of the bill and semi States and transportation features. First of all includes canceling and appropriation that our staff felt is no longer going to be needed the second feature involved reduction for the Department of Public Safety including the BCA and house file to of the last budget reduction Bill. We did not cut the BCA we're able to Shield them from any budget reductions and the feeling was we'd have to take some additional cuts out of that particular agency. the third item is a historical society at 2% General reduction the Arts board a seven point four percent reduction and the MTC reducing the state subsidy in the MTC item the what that reduction reflects is a is a rainiest figure given to the legislature by the MTC in estimating how much they would bring in when they went to the 50 and sent Peak fear charge. Actually, they brought in more than the originally figured and the amount in addition to that the to the what they originally figured was six hundred eighty seven thousand. So we've taken credit for that. Finally. We've reduced the out State Transit grants 250,000 dollars. The third feature of the beyond the reduction area includes a reduction of the appropriation for the 911 emergency phone system. This will still allow the state to honor all existing contracts with counties that have signed contracts with the state. Whoever those counties that haven't signed contracts are no longer going to be able to implement the 911 system until 1984. Secondly, it reduces the supply and expense budgets for All State agencies by 2.5% It set post-secondary third. It reduces the state contribution to the Minnesota State Retirement System. I have a memorandum from the executive branch that indicates that the state is presently over funding the present level of benefits in the Minnesota State retirement system and this reflects that over funding that is being done at the present time. If in fact we're wrong and we're not over funding there is language in the bill that Rolls back and goes back to the old level of percentage contributions. The next item is a 25% reduction in the executive Council appropriation. The executive council is the group that deals with emergencies. They have not yet touched their overall appropriation of two million dollars. So we have taken half million dollars out of that appropriation. The next item is a phase-out of the shade tree program and item I didn't particularly want to do since I was a chief author of the bill five or six years ago the created it but we've already cut the program from over 25 million dollars down to basically a shell and the State Department of Agriculture and we're wiping out the program if we adopt this bill, the next item is the reduction in the legislature and they all CMR of two million dollars the specifics as to where and how much of that reduction is to come from. Each agency would be made by the Legislative coordinating commission. The next item is a reduction in the Department of Commerce. When we created the Department of Commerce several years ago we Find three existing state agencies, but we did not eliminate many of the deputy and assistant commissioner levels. This bill would eliminate those different positions primarily in the in the administrative area. The next item is the DNR a reduction in DNR. Their primary item of that reduction would be the elimination of the DNR regional office in the Twin Cities. The next item is a reduction in the state contribution for Tiara and so and social security for teachers. It reflects projected layoffs of 2500 teachers. It's my understanding from those in the education community that actually the teacher layoffs throughout the state of Minnesota will be much larger than 2,500 teachers. So in that sense, it's probably a conservative figure the next item deals with the fuel contingency accounts, which have not been tapped to the extent. We thought they would be fortunately the price of fuel is coming down. And so we've taken an amount out of the fuel at contingency account. The final item is a reduction in the salary supplement. This will mean that negotiated contracts will still be honored but it will mean there will be a reduction for the various. Agencies we're going to have to reduce their operating budget to comply with this reduction on page two at the top. We've listed out the the itemized deductions or reductions for higher education Community. The first one is a reduction in the State Department of Education. We are cutting through this feature of the bill the regional Mis subsidies, as you may recall, those are programs that allow for computerized administrative assistants in through the computer use of the computer and the administrative part for the school districts. Secondly, we reduce the appropriation to the hecb. The hecb is presently negotiating reciprocity with the state of Wisconsin. It's my understanding that through those negotiations and Minnesota contribution to reciprocity program will be decreased. And that is a it's our hope that a majority of this reduction will come as a result of those negotiations thirdly the State University system the community college system presently maintain separate contingency accounts. We're eliminating those contingency accounts through this bill. We are however allowing those systems to come to the legislative advisory commission. Finally. We reduce the appropriation for various vocational education programs those include the student organization Center the Minnesota curriculum Services Center and one other Center those centers will still operate But A reduced level that's a summary of the reduction features of the bill. It is a bill that has been agreed to by The 3i r + 3 D FL negotiators in the Senate side the dfl negotiators in the house side and the governor's office as I told my caucus there are many features of this bill that I'm not happy with. How can anybody be happy with the bill? That's going to cut seat spending and state agencies and higher education that our governor described last spring is already being cut to the Bone. It's not a pleasant Bill to talk about but we've got a problem facing us a problem. We've got to meet the governor's office indicated that this problem had to be dealt with imminently within the next few days. And this this feature of the bill is a good faith effort to cut State spending significantly to deal with the problem. We've got of having another shortfall in state revenue so that our budget will not balance by the end of the biennium. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Speaker. What I'd like to do next is yield to representative Anderson who will explain the tax features of the bill following that I would be happy to answer. Any questions Granderson die. (00:08:55) That was Mike's evenly chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. Well representative Irv Anderson chairman of the house tax committee. (00:09:04) St. Anne's be a call of the house or take (00:09:06) her off and representative. Anderson has moved a call of the house, which is a formal procedure used to ensure that every member of the house is actually in the chamber and ready to vote at the time. The vote is called for. Only those people who are excused for the day are able not to vote if a call of the house is imposed. It takes ten people to Second a call of the house and that has been done the roll call has been taken once again and the people who are not in the chamber will now be sent for brought in and their presence will be noted. This procedure will be of some interest later when the vote comes and the people have been asked to vote on the bill. Now here's representative Anderson explaining the tax sections of the bill (00:10:12) and that revenue forecast. Of course brought bad news to us. It said that the state had its projected fund balance at the end of this bike biennium would fall further behind by some 227. Ends of dollars and that is the reason why we have this bill here before you today because the deficit I'm sorry because of the fund balance that had been left by husband. Number two the bill enacted in the special session to overcome that periods financial problems was not sufficient to cover the new projected deficit if we were to subtract the hundred and twenty six million dollar expected Surplus in the States Treasury pursuant to house file number two from the 227 new deficit. We would then come up with a figure of approximately a hundred and two million dollars, but in addition to the tool to the hundred and two million dollars that we expect we will then be in deficit there also exists a deficit within the Department of Welfare to approximately 57 million dollars, which then means that the total amount of money. That should be raised during this biennium. Because of the new projected financial report amounts to a hundred and fifty nine million dollars the committee put together to overcome the budget problems. First of all looked at that problem and said, well, it's not realistic just to enact a bill that would overcome some hundred and fifty nine million dollars of financial problems, but rather we should also project some sufficient Surplus so that when we go to the financial markets later this year in order to overcome our cash flow problems and to borrow money that we would be able to point at a projected. Surplus that will occur in our state's budget if we do not do that, obviously we're going to have problems with selling our bonds and so it was the decided opinion of those members who sat at that committee that we should have temp to put together a bill that had a revenue-raising potential of some two hundred and thirty million dollars representative. Stephen has enumerated for you some 31 May 30 point 1 million dollars of cuts that we proposed to be made within the operations of state governments. In addition to those cuts. We also call upon the local units of government to make Cuts within their budgets to some 30 million dollars, you will recall that in house file to that passed during the special session an additional 30 million dollars was imposed in Cuts was imposed upon local units of government. This is an additional 30 million dollars and if we were to Total the 60 million dollars that are Incorporated within husband To and house file 2190 that sum total applied against their overall budgets means that we are asking local units of government to reduce their expenditures with no opportunity whatsoever to recover those monies by approximately 1.6 7% less than 2% And so we think it's reasonable that we ask them once again to reduce their budgets. We know it's going to be difficult. But we also recognize that they have to be a part of any problem that the state has we do that by asking the counties to absorb twenty point five million dollars in new Cuts cities 5.5 million dollars in new Cuts townships two million dollars in new Cuts in other service districts, approximately two million dollars making the grand total of cuts imposed upon local units of government 30 million dollars. Some people may ask a how was the formula arrived at when we went back and looked at what we Done in house while number two we found that we had the imposed Cuts upon the counties of only two point seven million dollars while we had imposed Cuts upon cities of twenty five point six million dollars and this new formula does brought forth and house file 2190 then attempts to equalize the amount of cuts between the cities and the counties if we add the amount of cuts that we impose upon state government and the cuts that we are asking local units of government to absorb. We then come up with a figure of 60 point 1 million dollars that then would leave us approximately a hundred and seventy million $2 to raise by other means we then turned to the opportunity that that presently exists and has been used previously of Shifting some of the payments that we would we regularly be making during this biennium into the next biennium or using a different schedule of payments and we chose three shifts first of all turning. Senior citizens who normally would receive their render credits in April of 1983. We are asking that they that they accept a payment rather than the month of April changed to the month of August in the year 1983 that will save the state during this biennium some Thirty point two million dollars. We are also asking the senior senior citizens who owned property who normally receive their homestead credit payments or I'm sorry circuit breaker payments in the month of April of 83 to delay that payment to October of 1983 and the net result of which is a 35.1 Gainer for the state. Then we turn to the school districts who normally receive their homestead credit payments from the state in the month of July in January and ask them to allow the state to impose pay those make those payments upon the same dates, which we receive the which they receive the Late payments that results in a saving during this biennium of thirty seven point six million dollars making a total of the shifts in this bill a hundred and two point nine million dollars. If we add the 6160 Point 1 million dollars in cuts and a hundred and two point nine million dollars in shifts within need to raise some 70 million dollars in taxes. We have chosen five areas in which to increase taxes. The first of which is to delay the federal Conformity and capital gains tax treatment from July 1 of 1982 to January the first of 1983, you will recall that in house vow that that provision was incorporated within house foul. Number two that passed during the regular session all that we're doing is delaying the imposition of that tax credit or tax benefit to our people the net gain or to the state would amount to 14 million dollars. Then we are proposing to repeal the state sales tax exemption on tangible personal property sold outside. Minnesota effective May the first of 1982 that provision was in was in within the Senate version of hausfrau 1872 that bill that just passed last Saturday. The reason that was deleted was because we felt that all major Revenue sources that was in that bill should be delayed so that the budget committee we would have the chance to peruse it and make a determination as to whether or not it should be incorporated within this bill that provision raises 10.5 million dollars. The third tax that we proposed to increase is to place the state sales tax on candy and pop effective me the first of 1982 that sales tax will not only be placed in the retail establishments throughout the state but also upon the vending machines. The for tax is an additional five percent tax on liquor that is sold by the drink across the many bars and supper clubs the throughout the state of Minnesota that tax will be effective May the 1st of 82 and raises approximately 25 million dollars. The last tax is to place the sales tax on cable television and that would be effective May the 1st 1982 and raises approximately 1.5 million dollars the total of my amount of taxes raised in this bill 69.0 million dollars bringing the grand total of the amount of Revenue or Cuts raised by the bill 232 million dollars, which should bring the state. A net fund balance at the end of the biennium of some hundred and twenty nine point four million dollars. (00:18:43) That was dfl representative Irv Anderson from International Falls the chairman of the house tax committee explaining the tax portion and the shift portion and the cuts to County governments in the bill. And now we have dfl representative. Is it Bob McCarron or Paul macaron one can never tell (00:19:06) Mr. (00:19:06) Speaker. This is Fred Norton dfl representative from Saint Paul. (00:19:10) I thought perhaps there might be some questions but I guess I've been agonizing over it myself and I have come to conclusion that I'm going to vote for the bill not because I love the bill, but because I don't like the Alternatives very well. I just see that even know. The group of house members and senators and the governor's office. Put this thing together in a very very short time. that it was a more thoughtful approach to it than across the board type on allocating would be and as I think about the people that I represent concerned about social services and education. I just think that they're going to suffer more if we ultimately leave this up to the administration then if we pass this kind of Bill I also think as chairman of the LCM are that we're having cutbacks in that area that I really don't like very well, but I think those cutbacks might be considered as at least as a moderate frill compared to the social service programs dealing with poor people disabled and those in need and so while I don't think it's a particularly good bill. It's far better than the Alternatives and I hope you'll vote for it. (00:20:49) dfl representative Fred Norton from Saint Paul Minnesota house is talking about the budget balancing plan worked out yesterday between some negotiators including the governor. Here's dfl her Steve (00:21:04) Novak of this house are too too. (00:21:09) I think it ought to be (00:21:09) bipartisan. You know, I think everybody here got this memo that I got from Governor Qui. I certainly wish we would have had it last April June and December and we would have solved a lot of the problems that were faced with now. But anyway, if you haven't read it, I think you ought to. The purpose of this memo is to convey to you my firm and unequivocal support for the budget balancing bill now before the legislature, I urge you to pass it the consequences of not doing so are alarmingly severe he goes on to give the specifics of why he thinks about of he passed but I think more importantly he goes on to state in specifics the kinds of things that are going to be cut in the kinds of things that he's going to have to do if this bill does not pass and become law. You know, there's essentially two things that are good. That are going to happen if this bill passes. That are not going to be very good if it doesn't. We've seen the results of the budget problems with the last year already reflected in property tax statements that came out in the last month. We've also seen the results in the school districts around the state of the cuts that have had to be made as a result of the budget decisions that have been that have gone on over the last year to this date. The two things that passing this bill will not do is to further increase property taxes and further cut the schools of this state. And I think a lot of people in this house particularly on the other side of the aisle have a belief. That when this thing goes down if it if it does particularly if we don't have any votes from the other side that we're going to be coming right back here with another bill. That may happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. And if it doesn't which it might not I think you want to Think Through the ramifications of not having voted for this bill when the on allotments come. The severe Cuts come throughout the education system and you see the impact of those cuts further reflected in major property tax bill. Not to mention another fact a factor that's been with us for the last two years in this state, but this will clearly be the final indictment to Governor Al quie and his leadership or lack thereof if he puts his Blessing before a budget Bill and can't get one vote out of a republican House of Representatives that has 64 members, you know wasn't too many years ago when you had 31 and 34, but there was some leadership in those days and they made their presence felt. I think there's a lot at stake in this bill and I think you ought to consider voting for (00:23:57) it. The flr Steve Novak from New Brighton and now an independent Republican the first one to speak this afternoon Bill Schreiber from Brooklyn Park. (00:24:10) Don't think there's any member of this caucus it's going to be intimidated. By your comments regarding Governor Qui or leadership in either this caucus or on the part of the governor's office. I just like to bring us all (00:24:30) back about one (00:24:32) year. And try to put this in person into perspective because it sometimes is very difficult. In fact, it gets quite blurred. But if you recall we got started in 1981 in your side the aisle was saying that the governor's proposed budget was not balanced and that it was too optimistic and then in about April, we had a new budget forecast and you folks are right to some extent in that the economy was not projected to be nearly as good as what the governor had used as part of his budget message. The governor at that time said we're going to have to do 460 million dollars in additional taxes and the people in the in Minnesota and he also proposed some additional budgetary cuts and the legislature responded with some additional Cuts. We also responded with additional tax increases my recollection something over 500 million dollars. Not before we've gone through a lot of exercises of passing bills that did not have any support by the Republicans in the house. We're all timidly vetoed by the governor. Finally, we had a special session. And there was a resolve to the problem. And we all went home thinking gee it's tough to increase taxes, but we've got about a 50 million dollar cushion built in here. So the problem is taken care of. We didn't talk about in terms of economic recovery and job development. And how do we get ourselves out of this mess rather? How do we can are we able to continue to develop these public services and pay the public payrolls? Well, then we got into the fall. And again, the receipts to the Department of Revenue were not coming in as projected and the governor said we've got to have a new budget projection and that was done in November. And at that time he suggested primarily cuts a few tax increases but primarily budgetary cuts. In the caucus on this side the aisle said let's do it all in cuts. We're tired of voting for tax increases that aren't solving the problem. Well, we didn't get together very well and in December. And in January finally a bill was adopted in every call the bottom line for the Republicans in terms of cuts was 460 million (00:27:10) dollars (00:27:12) said that's the bare minimum that has to be cut out of this budget and then we'll go along with tax increases to resolve the problem. But what did we end up with was what around 320 million dollars in Cuts some hundred and forty million short Of what this caucus thought was was necessary. (00:27:33) Now we're back. (00:27:36) six weeks later and we still have a problem. And now it's to the tune of a couple hundred million dollars. I guess a question should be you're proposing 60 million dollars in Cuts here. Why did you over tax back in January? Why were the that additional 60 million Cuts made back in January? But I think that that point can be debated to whatever extent you want to but the one point that we keep hammering away at is that we can't solve our problems in Minnesota by increasing (00:28:15) taxes. (00:28:17) Somehow we have to develop jobs in this day. It's so that there are more of us (00:28:22) to pay the (00:28:22) taxes. But what's happening? We've got a worker's comp Bill and an unemployment comp Bill both which can be a very very strong signal to the business community that indeed we want them to continue in Minnesota that we want new jobs in Minnesota, but they're stalled down on a conference committee. And the best guest is we won't see that workers comp bill this session. Clearly. That's the number one priority for the business community. Some signals were attempted to be given to the business community and in-house file (00:28:58) to and one of them was Will conform on capital gains (00:29:03) taxation will conform with the federal government. Well, that was a nice signal but it didn't last very long because now it's being pulled out. In just six weeks. No commitment at all. So I think the real point is that we can shift as much as we want to we can (00:29:25) tax and tax and tax, (00:29:29) but we are not going to provide any solutions. Until we change this job and business climate in Minnesota, and this bill doesn't do a thing. to address that it's not worth one single vote on our side of the aisle and quite frankly. I don't know how you folks are going to go back home and defend this because based upon the history of what has been done down here over the past year. We're going to be right back at it again in August September October right before the election. Larger deficits again only because Minnesota is not going to share in the job development that's going to occur in this country yet this year (00:30:21) GOP representative Bill Schreiber from Brooklyn Park of the assistant Baker memories. Now the House Majority Leader. I was speaking with the flr from Twin (00:30:31) Valley things that have happened over the past year year and a half. As we've attempted to deal time and time again. with budget crisis in the state of Minnesota and here we have one again. And if you've listened to the comments of public officials of this state including the governor of this state over the past year and a half. We keep talking about. the economic climate of the United States and how that's impacting not only the state of Minnesota, but every one of us are citizens of this state and other states in this nation. And it's one of the most scary times. I think that any of us have been. Living through in just what's ahead in this National economy? And it's been the national economy that's caused an awful lot of these State problems over the last year. Because it's cause problem for me as a farmer and I suppose if you're a businessman has caused problems for you. And if you're a labor person, it's cause problems for you also. Boy, did they could be a deal as a farmer. I mean, they really gave me a deal all those wonderful tax cuts those wonderful tax cuts that they put enough federal tax law that was supposed to stimulate stimulate investment. And they went and passed a farm bill that took away my aunt pump for deal. I can get 362 today represent Schreiber on the market for a we didn't win Valley Minnesota and I can't make the cost of production with that. What a deal like And if you're lost your job as a little person what a deal you got. And if you're borrowing money, what about 18% entrance boy what God? That's why this economy is drying up. Who's investing? Who's put money into new business when it cost you 18 percent when your inventories are at a level that you can't sell. Yeah, we got troubles in the state of Minnesota. And we found out how serious they were when we went out to New York about six weeks ago to borrow some money for cash flow problems. So we could play local government AIDS so we could pay school district needs and the bank's out there said no money. Cuz your budget is imbalanced, Minnesota. And so then we had to come back and we had to redo the budget. We had to redo the projections, didn't we? And if your caucus would have stayed there on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday as we went through these discussions about trying to resolve this book problem in the state. You maybe heard the Department of Finance when they talked about those new Revenue projections being a bit concerned because they don't know for sure if we're headed for a recession or not that's deeper than the one we're in. Even to the point maybe of depression. We just don't know they don't know and neither do we? But it's pretty scary. But we had to do the best could be done in terms of trying to identify what potentially would be our revenues over the next several months of this next by any of this biennium. I just wished. Should all take a serious look. That the letter from the governor. Take a look at it's on your desk. You wouldn't have to read it. If we'd all been participants in that conference committee there we should review that just a little bit. Now we started out this last Monday. And the governor's office was there the Senate dfl the Senate IRS the house dfl the house I are. five participants five participants in that discussion we were called there by the governor because we got a budget crisis. Well, we didn't get very far in that discussion to start with. Because we couldn't even get to the point of deciding. What issues should be on the table? Your caucus was represented by representative Jennings representative stat mm representative lunamon. We had a period of time of discussion. About what should we really be talking about in this session in this conference? And its decision was finally made by the governor. By the Senate dfl by the Senate IR by the house dfl that the budget crisis was a real crisis and at that table we have to deal with the budget crisis. And so part of that five-part conference committee decided not to participate. The rest of us worked and it's not what any of us are really enthralled about to have this proposal before us today, but it was a decision of all of the rest of the participants that this was the best way to solve this crisis. today take a look at the letter. It's a letter from the governor. And you suggest on the first page? That indeed this is a true bipartisan compromise. Compromises give and take it isn't all about what you want. It's give and take the governor says true bipartisan compromise. Take a look at the second page. We should have been there maybe understand what this means. Take a look. Read what he says. That's the kind of cut you're looking at. If we do not recognize by appropriation the 57 million dollar welfare deficiency. Take another look at what it says. So is our Christmas will be taken away potentially taken away. We've already dropped in our credit rating because of our back past budget problems. You know what that means if we lose our credit rating if we can't borrow money. We got an 800 million dollar shortfall in cash flow. And if we can't borrow money. Just on the cash flow. Not the balance the budget. That's what this page is telephone. That means that we start holding back on School Aids. State school aid payments and all your local government Aid payments and the Department of Finance tells me that it'll be sometime in November. sometime in November when we got to the 800 million dollar figure Maybe your school district can wait that long mine can. You know what else that means. It means that between three and four hundred school districts in this state are going to be out there borrowing the money to cover their cash flow needs because we can't cover it at the state level. Mr. McManus tells me there will be at least 200 units of local government out there in the bond market to cover their cash flow problems because we didn't pay him from the state. Turn to page three. Page 3 tells you what happened. If we go with an appropriation to cover the 57 million dollars of welfare shortfall. So that the governor will have the authority to on a lot the total amount of our budget problem based on today's projection. To balance a zero-based budget by the end of this biennium a zero-based budget zero money. They go down the list. school age 45 point five million dollars and look a little further local government AIDS homestead credit AG tax aide that figure for school age is really 65 million plus because schools also receive homestead credit and egg credit. You're looking at 70 plus dollars of pupil unit in every school district in this state. If you want to do it in cuts. Take a look at higher education. I'm told that if we could get that 23 million dollars, it would mean closing in our University system. three schools three of our state university schools Would have to be closed to get that kind of dollars. We're Bemidji State Representative. Anally a 1.5 million dollar cut. Out of a bottle. I think somewhere between a 14 and 15 million dollar budget for Bemidji State University. Or if you've got a student that's going on to school next fall. another 30% increase in the tuition charges I'm told that we now are looking at (00:41:44) potentially an (00:41:44) increase in one year from 600 to $1,000 a 400 dollar increase. tuition cost and the State University system on the average and that's happening while the feds are cut cut cut for student loans and student scholarships. What do you think that potentially might do to enrollments? no, I just can't believe sometimes the seeming inability. for the unwillingness to recognize the responsibilities that each of us have to deal with something that has a serious as this problem is And for those of you that have been saying cut cut cut. Okay, I understand. How you vote? No. Just remember this is the impact of those comments. This is cut. And I just hope you think hard. About whether or not that's a wise decision. When you think about the potential to destroy what I think has been something that we've tried to protect time and time again through these budget crisis that we've had over these past year and a half. Because we have attempted to protect Elementary and secondary education. We've tried to minimize those cuts. We tried to minimize the cuts and higher education. Some of the I think the basis of what's been good about Minnesota our education system. That's no longer going to happen when you go to on alot. I just hope that there are those of you in the eye our caucus even though you did not participate with us in the bipartisan effort in the bipartisan compromise has been worked out. Will give serious consideration to this vote on this bill. because Those of us that participated believe is the best that's available to deal with the serious problem of today. I heard your yes folder. (00:44:30) That was Willa second the dfl majority leader of the Minnesota house. The Minnesota house is debating this 232 million dollar budget package that was worked out by negotiators involving three of the caucuses and Governor Qui yesterday now back to the floor and this is House minority leader Dave Jennings we go back to the first time that we faced a budget crisis like this. It was the fall of 1980 you'll all recall. I'm sure. That was the first time that a shortfall materialized and some drastic action had to be taken to solve it. At that point the charge was made that the governor had somehow mismanaged the budget and that was the problem. Then we faced another shortfall the spring of 1981. And again, the charge was made that the governor had somehow mismanaged the budget. That was the problem. Then this fall we were called back in here and it was special session. Another shortfall another charge the governor's mismanaged the budget. That's the problem. Now we've got another shortfall only this time the governor's not running for re-election. So now the effort is to blame the Reagan Administration or the house Republican caucus or anybody anybody. But this house this house and the Senate down the hall as bodies have responsibility for the state budget. It has been their responsibilities since 1980. And before it was then and it is now. I'm glad to hear well as talk about the national recession and to recognize the fact that the national recession does have something to do with our problems here in Minnesota. That was never admitted before but I'm glad that he's admitting it now. The problem is that this bill doesn't solve the state's crisis twice before we've been down here with a shortfall and we made a few cuts and we've raised a few taxes and within a matter of months. We're back another shortfall. Raise a few taxes cut a little spending and we go home and in a few months, we're back I submit to you today that if that's what we do here will be back another shortfall. We are not going to solve the state's problems until this house is ready to address economic recovery in this state. I admit we can't control the national recession. There's nothing we can do about that. There's a lot of things we can't control but some of them we can and there has been a continued persistence to opposing any kind of economic recovery in this state workers comp is one way. It doesn't solve all the problems but it solves some it might not save all the jobs, but it might save some it might give us a few more taxpayers to help with the load rather than increasing the load on the few. We've got left. Unemployment insurance is another it doesn't solve all the problems, but it would solve some (00:47:39) as this house had a chance to consider those issues this session know (00:47:43) every effort was made to make (00:47:44) darn sure that neither one of those issues were landed on this house floor for a genuine debate for a chance for amendments and for a chance for this house to work its will. The will of the majority of the members of this house was subverted by not allowing those issues to come before us in any way where we could have input. I went to the governor's office on Monday to insist that now finally maybe we could address those issues but no (00:48:13) no no one was interested in talking about it. (00:48:16) Well the house I our caucuses interested in talking (00:48:18) about it. The state needs more taxpayers not more (00:48:22) taxes. We can't go home now with this bill and believe we solved the problem. If we do, we'll be back before the next election going through this all over again. Minority leader Dave Jennings republican from Truman Minnesota. (00:48:43) Thank you. Mr. Speaker (00:48:44) members now Dwayne Holberg from Moorhead is that independent republic (00:48:47) has a compromise but it's a compromise that I cannot support and I'm going to tell you why. The state of Minnesota is in deep deep trouble. We're bleeding profusely from the Carotid artery. And we have a Band-Aid ready to place over that cut. The very Vitality of this state is slowly draining away. Representative Jennings is stated. That what we need in this state are more taxpayers more jobs, not more taxes. And if in fact you think that that's a facetious statement. I'm going to share some information with you relative to my community. Let's talk just a little bit about taxes in and of itself. An individual resident state of Minnesota living in Moorhead making $15,000 a year. We'll pay in income tax to the state of Minnesota. 741 dollars. Should that individual move across the river to the state of North Dakota. He or she will be paying $75. Let's go to the upper income brackets ended an individual making $40,000 a year will pay on an average 2371 dollars to the state of Minnesota. That same individual living in the state of North Dakota will pay $296 my friends what this has done is to drain from the city of Moorhead. And yes the state of, Minnesota. The thought leaders of our community the people who can stand up and talk about the future of our state and the future of our community. They're no longer living in our city and they're no longer living in our state. But if that isn't enough, let's take a look at some of the reasons why business and industry is moving (00:51:03) out. A small business (00:51:06) firm whose corporate profits are 20,000 dollars a year. We'll pay to the state of Minnesota approximately 2400 dollars that same business located less than a mile away from the city of Moorhead will pay $690. That is a two hundred and Forty-Eight percent (00:51:29) differential. And you wonder (00:51:32) why small business wishes to remain within our state they have absolutely no reason to remain. And if the taxes aren't enough, let's take a look at workers comp. A bill that the Senate Majority Leader and the House Majority Leader who are residents of my corner of the state have publicly said would be seriously addressed in this session of the legislature. Now I ask each member here. Have we seriously (00:52:05) addressed (00:52:07) the problems of workers comp in, (00:52:09) Minnesota? (00:52:14) You want to see some of the differences? Let's take a look at automotive repair I mechanic. working in the city of Moorhead Whose income is 20000 dollars? The employer must pay a premium of 835 dollars annually for his workers comp across the river that same business will have to pay only a hundred ninety six dollars. A Lumberyard same salary $20,000. Workers comp premium to the state of Minnesota Eleven Hundred and thirty-two dollars state of North Dakota premium 124 dollars Iron and Steel construction at twenty thousand dollar salary state of North Dakota $697 premium the state of Minnesota for thousand eight hundred and sixty four dollars. My friends there is absolutely no reason. For business and industry to stay within this state. Many people say that's a unique situation in the Border. It's not unique. The business and industry that we have lost has been excessive. We have in Moorhead 1,000 fewer jobs today. And listen, that's the state of Minnesota 1,000 fewer jobs today than we had two years ago. Silver Line Boats and major manufacturing firm in our community has moved to Arkansas with a loss of over 200 jobs to the state of, Minnesota. And they're still producing boats down there men caught a manufacturing recently left with a loss of 100 jobs Fairmont Foods moved to North Dakota another hundred jobs Harvick manufacturing three weeks ago announced the movement and expansion into the state of North Dakota. Another hundred jobs, Jay Davis Chevrolet moving to North Dakota already located over there and empty warehouse and empty showroom in our community. And now in addition we are going to tax one of the remaining viable Industries and businesses that we have in our community and that's the restaurant in the Supper Club business. If in fact they don't have enough problems competing with North Dakota, which is legitimised gambling. We now add additional taxes to the beverages that they're going to be serving asking those people to absorb from their profit, which is very limited at this particular time to absorb from their profit that additional (00:55:05) tax. (00:55:09) I said when I started that we are bleeding from an artery. And what we have here is a Band-Aid. But until such time as we seriously address. The problems of workers comp unemployment comp revitalizing business and industry in this state. We're going to continue to come back in special session reacting rather than acting to budgetary (00:55:38) shortfalls. (00:55:46) That was representative Duane Holberg independent republican from (00:55:49) Moorhead. I'd like to ask the House Majority Leader question is (00:55:53) here. Freaking isn't present streaking. Do your questions? It's crassness. (00:55:59) This is Paul awesomeness an (00:56:01) independent streak and I wonder if you can tell us why at this particular time of the year. Now the normal time when the income taxes are coming in from individuals self-employed people Farmers small business people Etc and what your discoveries are relative to what the exactly why that shortfall is there if that is from the income tax, which was ordinarily anticipated this time of the year, but I'm getting at is representative Egan. Is it really the because of the shortfall in those areas that we are the short this (00:56:34) time? Bacon, mr. Speaker represent (00:56:40) Austin is as I think you're aware. I (00:56:43) represent very rural District largest town in my district is 1800 people. And so I'm speaking with constituents who are primarily Farmers also small business people that deal with with farmers. and tell you the conversations I have with the federal land bank. I have a neighbor who serves on the federal land bank board. He told me about two weeks ago that they had a bad year last year on their repayments on their Farm mortgage loans. They're very very nervous about this next year. Talk to my local Banker that's several months ago when we had quite a discussion. He told me that his biggest worry are the small business people on Main Street. He said we've got a number of those that are broken don't know it. And basically the reason that I (00:57:46) get to observe asanas every time I (00:57:49) talk with people the first one is high interest rates. secondly little farm prices Fact I talked to talk to my accountant when I did did her income tax work. And he said the sugar beet Farmers up there had a good year last year. A lot of them are going to be getting some nice refunds this year because they had a lousy year this year. And what I hear? Is the national economy is just got everybody shook to death. And you know perfectly well that the farmer is not going to go out and buy that new tractor replace that equipment this year because we're going to try hang in there and not increase our Capital Investments and that's you know, that's that's the beautiful thing that I thought. You know what that that line that some of us have evidently some people bought when we went through that last presidential election and I had some Farmers up my way. I know that voted. for our present president Cuz boy, did they get promised a lot. It all this thing was really going to work that supply-side that free market concept. I think you know as well as I that $3.62 for wheat. Is not going to generate any profit. And so what I hear represent wiseness is great deal of concern about the national economy about what it means to my constituents and what it means to paying taxes and what it means to the state of Minnesota to deliver service. (00:59:32) Thank you. Mr. Egan (00:59:33) colloquy between Paul asanas. from West Central, Minnesota (00:59:41) Has had for a number of years. I raised sunflowers back back in 1979 in July. I know it's mr. Aiken isn't listening right now again, mr. Egan just want to recall again some of the events that have transpired, you know, this what has happened to the situation we're experiencing now is not a bit surprising and talking with people that are doing tax work in my district. The anticipation of this shortfall was was exactly was there at there were well. Well sure. Well, I sure I should say that we were going to have a very serious time and we aren't out of the woods yet, but I want to back up a bit back to 1979. At that time in July, I could have sold my sunflowers for $12 a hundred but 48% of all the sunflowers that is that is produced in our area goes through the Duluth Port mystery can yet at this point. We have not recovered up to that particular price for our sunflowers. I serve a small County Grant County Ottertail as well as Travers, but in Grand County alone just on wheat alone as a result of the 79 strike realize we haven't had a chance to address this issue much on this floor even the committee but I like to make some comments as to what the impact had my particular District but in Grant County alone just on wheat not sunflowers not corn not barley oats, but on wheat alone the estimated loss at 50 cents a bushel because of that strike was five million dollars now, that's not just five million dollars to the farmer. Because the money turns over and over and over again in the communities, for example, the farmer may go and purchase a truck the person running the auto dealership with additional income has more income and therefore perhaps if after selling enough trucks or cars is able to purchase a house or maybe some remodeling on the house the fellow running The LumberYard because of additional income. Perhaps is going to the furniture store to buy a refrigerator or Furnishings for the house. But each transaction produces attacks each per transaction produces employment. And unless and until we as the lawmakers of this state and addressing these types of problems for our farmers and small businesses. Actually seriously address it this problem will even get worse. I have a question. I'd like to make a statement relative to one of the features on page 24 relative to the bill. Now here is the case where we're going to be increasing the tax on some of the tangible properties that we sell out of our state. Matter of fact it'll be 200 million dollars worth of properties that were going to be moving out of our state that we're going to be taxing that we have not taxed in the past. I wonder what the customers of the different firms in our state. That are supplying these tangible products. Will feel about that and what the impact that's going to be on their particular (01:02:52) business. (01:02:58) I guess my disappointment in serving here. Now. The fourth year is the inability of actually doing anything of any substance to help the Minnesota farmer and to help the small business. The frustration has been shared by our minority leader and Dwayne Holberg and I serve a district that is next to North Dakota and South Dakota the inability and the restrictions that we have had placed upon us to actually deal with any of these. I look at four major issues that should have been surface should have been dealt with this session certainly workers compensation. I'm sure that everyone on the other side of the aisle agrees that it is the number one economic issue and in visiting visiting with many of you earlier you indicated that we do have to have some reform and workers comp and this all occurred until about three weeks ago when organized labor came down very very strongly and said every vote is going to be used against you in the election. If you do anything in dealing with this problem, even though you recognize it it seems like it's the political ramifications personally of the issue rather than doing something for the state of Minnesota unemployment comp is another one that we really haven't handled. It. Looks like we want the third one that I have worked on. Personally as property taxes for small businesses. There's been a tremendous shift our small businesses are staggering. I couldn't get a hearing last year this year ahead of hearing in subcommittee. The bill was defeated. I offered it again here on the house floor and a different version. It was once again defeated. And the last thing is to send a signal throughout the world that we had Minnesota have egg products for sale and yet because of demonstrated unreliability and Export Market, we are losing markets those four issues are positive steps rational steps that we have tried as far as our caucus to deal with and to bring to your attention this session, but every one of them has been stolen well and deliberately rejected. And then lift and until and unless we deal with those issues, you know personally I could support and I'm speaking strictly for myself. But if we could have some strong economic recovery issues so we could send a signal not only to the world as far as a poor export markets but also the other states and to our own businesses that we want business to stay here if we could have some economic recovery measures personally, I would support some type of a expansion of sales tax and that type of thing but in light of the fact that we have been unable to do so and unwilling to do so, I certainly cannot support anything that's going to increase our taxes unless we have economic recovery (01:05:32) independent Republican Paul. Austin has now I'll be representative Wendell Erickson, (01:05:38) mr. Speaker representative sieben. I guess my concern is on page six. One of my concerns at least is on page six lines 1 through 17, and I'm sure that's no surprise to you because we have discussed this I guess in the education division Appropriations in the past. My main concern I guess is from Lyons 6 through 17 on page six where we specifically. Take a hundred and twenty thousand dollars out of three areas of the vocational education budget the curriculum Services Center, which is set up to help reduce the costs of school districts as far as getting teaching materials. That's one area that is scheduled for a cut. The second is a vocational student organization, which has some space down in Inver growth site Inver Grove Heights school where the Future Farmers of America the future Homemakers America Vic edeka hose and virtually every one of these vocational student organizations actually operate out of we're going to cut them and then I guess the aerial agricultural coordinators are going to be cut also in this particular provision representative sieben. Where did this proposal come from? (01:07:06) This question directed to representative Mike sieben chairman of the House Appropriations Committee questions asked by Wendell Erickson independent Republican who lives down in the very South Western corner of Minnesota and is something of an expert on higher education Appropriations, the other matters (01:07:24) many many years 10 years. I guess it was not my proposal. That's one of the things about bipartisan package that you work on. We put some items on the table the dealt with egg research at the University that would have cut that a little bit and others didn't like that and So it did come from the Senate conferees and I just might respond window as you know, this is one of those areas where they're still going to be resources there. There aren't going to have as many resources to do the job in these three areas some of part of where we hope the slack could be picked up was with the student organization Center that perhaps these student organizations like the FFA and some others can have fee or can have membership fees just like a lot of other student organizations do to help pick up the slack there with reference to the curriculum Services Center The Hope was that we can have the post-secondary vocational schools do some more coordination on their own and each ECB. Perhaps have a little more teeth and do little more coordination on its own to make sure there isn't Overlapping in that area which is my understanding a major portion of what they do. So but the answer your question it was not my proposal. I didn't embrace it wholeheartedly I do feel though forgot to make Cuts, you know, it's one of those things that we're not going to have as many of those people who do those things. We still going to have some some core number of people in the state department though, and hopefully that's one area where the post-secondary institutions can do more on their own plus perhaps some of the students are going to have to pay a little more like students doing some other organizations. (01:09:08) The Minnesota house continues discussing a 232 million dollar budget balancing package, which was put together by house DF ehlers senate dfl errs senate in to repent of Republicans and Governor Al quie The Proposal is running into sharp opposition from House Republicans who are not involved in the discussions and to insist that some economic recovery issues particularly reduction of workers comp and unemployment compensation rates be included in this overall budget balancing package once again back to the house floor and the question being put by representative Wendell (01:09:44) Erickson. State now this year 1981. There's about 5,000 Farmers that are having their records analyzed under this program. and it's growing every year. Now the records for the northwest corner of the state are analyzed the area became area coordinator is Ed Sizzler Thief River Falls. This is going to jeopardize some of these centers. I'm afraid and some of these people to do provide this service Staples. You've got William Gale Kerr at Staples Wilmer. You've got John Thell that does this for that the state at Jackson representative man's District. You have John Murray and our area in the southwest corner depends on Jackson to analyze records and they'll be analyzing probably around 600 or so this year for Farmers to try to keep them out there on the farms. Man Kato has an analysis Center in Austin represent. A ratings district has an analysis Center and in this proposal we're going to jeopardize these analysis centers. I'm afraid by cutting back further on their funding and one thing that we've mandated as a legislature is at anyone in the farm security program, the representative Eakin and representative man have been very influential over the years and I think rightly so they've mandated that anyone involved in that program must have an analysis such as this on their farming operation. That's a requirement each year. They drop out of the program then their loan is no longer valid. Another I've made three calls on behalf of young Farmers here this past week to try to get them enough money to put the crop in this spring. We've got in my local District down there. The the paper that came out last week had 22 auction bills in there. It's a horrendous number really but the one bright spot I guess is he's people who have who do analyze their records and do make improvements. There's a whole lot less difficulty with them. But Farmers home Administration is insisted this year that anyone who doesn't have one of these analysis is in difficulty if they are in difficulty in getting funding if they don't have an analysis, they're pretty much out of it. And I think that it's unfortunate that when we do have this this dire stress in our economy that we aren't appropriating the full amount of money in this (01:12:22) area. Granderson G (01:12:28) is dfl representative Glenn Anderson, another Farm area (01:12:33) representative that there was four hundred and twenty thousand dollars cut out of the area that deals with with The program's you just talked about vocational centers and (01:12:47) farm management (01:12:48) Etc. But you know. Frankly, this isn't the place to have brought that up. You had three negotiators supposedly that we're supposed to talk about things like this to lay on the table things. That should be cut. God knows we can't settle the budget crisis by taxes alone. We can't settle it by shifts alone. We've got to make some cuts and frankly your folks took their ball on and went out to play someplace else. They didn't want to stay in bargain. We'd still be in Korea if people wanted to State at the bargaining table. We'd still be in Vietnam. Yeah, got the bargain. You've got to put your cards on the table work out from there. Talk about responsibility. And I know hindsight's always better than foresight. But it was my feeling then. It's still my feeling if you remember a couple years ago. We had a little bonding bill on the floor. Awesome, little and dollars. It was the biggest in the state's history. I think 325 million but no argument from that side of the aisle was it's irresponsible. We can't pass a bonding Bill like that. Things are going to be tough the realize what the interest rates were in the bonding Bill to time somewhere. I believe between eight and nine percent perhaps less You realize what the beds would have been the lowest in the state's history probably. At that very same time the stadium was being put out for bid to his coming in way way under projection only stadium in the nation that's been built under projected cost. But no we couldn't pass a 325 million dollar bonding Bill. We ought not build a music building. We ought not build a couple agriculture buildings out at the University. We ought not fix the roofs at colleges and universities throughout the state. We ought not build jails. We heard all about these Holiday Inns at we got all over the state for jails. You'd show me a holiday and I've been in a few of my tell you I don't want to take up residence. Now. We talked about painting Applause for drunk driving very same people that are good against jails here a couple three years ago said, we got to have mandatory sentencing for drunk driving. Well my part of the state. There's not a jail to put (01:15:15) them in. (01:15:17) And of course takes few dollars to to Salt somebody away whether it's for drunk driving or pulling a gun or whatever. But no we couldn't pass a bonding bill. Personally, I think had we done that we would have had the best bids. We would have built buildings that needed building. We would have had to repair some betterments behind us. We would have kept people employed. They would have paid income tax sales taxes would have been paid would have been buying some new Fords. Perhaps they wouldn't be laying folks off over to support plant. But no it was irresponsible couldn't couldn't pass a bonding bill. We'll wait we'll wait till the economy picks up and I suspect it will some day and then we'll pass bonding bills. I don't know what the interest rates will be there pretty high now. But we won't get good bids will be competing Again With Private Industry and will pay the Old Government Cost Plus. Because the contractors will have plenty of work. And so yeah will pay through the nose and you'll vote for it because things are good. talk about business climate I've gone through the state enough times. And both being a farmer and small businessman. I really irritates me to hear the business Community preaching how bad the business climate is in the state. And things I grant you there's things that ought to be corrected and you know my stand on a couple of them workers comp in one of them. But if we stop preaching negativism throughout this state and Nation, perhaps we could turn things around a little bit. Compare Minnesota against Louisiana. It's a bunch of baloney or against Alaska as far as our tax rates. Probably half their budget is paid for by taxing the oil and you and I are paying for that compares against North Dakota the same thing sure we raised two cents a gallon gas tax last session North Dakota pump the equivalent of ten cents a gallon other general fund into their Road fund who's paying for it people Minnesota are paying a share. It came out of their Severance tax. Sorry to say we don't have a pile of oil or coal to tax. And so you have to start looking at a few of those things. Texas Louisiana, those states are all the same way. Talk about business climate. I was in Washington a couple years ago. I think it was at the inauguration. And I'm a little Scotch. I don't like to pay three four dollars for for a role in a cup of coffee in the hotel. And so we went down the street to the drugstore the waitresses in the drugstore had signs hanging around their neck, please excuse me, I'm learning. Frankly, there were adults 19 20 year-old adults and I couldn't believe it. They could not write down in order and remember it long enough to get to the kitchen now. You don't find folks like that in, Minnesota. and I'm pretty happy that we're paying a little more taxes so that we can educate our young people so that You don't run into situations like that. And if we had preached that Nationwide. And within the state as well that we've got a quality Workforce that we've got an educated Workforce that people are willing to put in 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Then I think we wouldn't have all our problems. But no we preach don't come to Minnesota. We got a terrible terrible business climate and leave the state because you can save a few dollars and yes represent state of my work concerned about workers comp. I think I may have a plant that will move to South Dakota. And that may be the determining Factor. But there are other things to look at in the business (01:19:23) climate. (01:19:28) I'm not totally happy with this bill. I don't know if any of the hundred and thirty four members of of us are yes, I proposed a liquor tax. But I wanted to spend on certain things. I thought we should tax liquor. We should spend it on law enforcement chemical dependency Education and Research pay for the hospital bills of the kids that are run over by drunk drivers. But frankly folks when your 229 million dollars in debt, I guess it's not the time to start some new programs. I think first of all we better get out of the short-term problem and I'm not convinced that this bill will do it. We may be back in August or September. I've tried to be a Optimist my whole life frankly. And have a little difficulty these days, but I'm still willing to sit down and talk about it. Try to resolve our problems try to look toward the future. You talk about cutting the budget cut cut cut you forget to tell the folks at 75% of it goes back to local units of government. You forget to tell him that by trying to be a hero here in cutting the state budget. You're cutting Aid to education. You're cutting Aid to counties. You're cutting Aid to cities. That's own up to the fact. between increasing most of the license fees on anything from automobiles to motorcycles to snowmobiles and everything else Which in effect state parks Etc. That's a tax doesn't somehow reflect in our budget I guess but it's a tax things that used to be lower. And and now to make ourselves look somewhat better. I guess we're raising all these fees. Going a little bit the California style. Why don't we be honest with the people of the state and said yes, we believe in taxation throughout the state. And provide quality education throughout the state. And provide the goods and services that's needed. You have to realize that not every county in the state can afford all these. and if you want problems in the future just Put everything back as far as fundraising on the local unit of government and then Watch What Happens people start moving? I've already Started to sense that were school is starting to have problems. Somebody says well, I think I'm going to move so my kids get into that better school. That's the area where headed. And so while everything isn't perfect. And this bill and I think we may have to swallow a bit. I think it's the compromise. It's been worked out and we just better vote it up (01:22:30) dfl representative Glenn Anderson from Bellingham Minnesota, which is in the west central part of the state is District borders, South Dakota. Glenn Anderson is a member of the Appropriations Committee. As a matter of fact, he is a chairman of one of the appropriation subcommittees here is representative Joe with people I independent Republican Minnesota House of Representatives continues to debate this budget balancing bills compromise proposal workout yesterday legislative leaders and Governor Al quie the independent Republicans in the house were not part of the agreement and they are arguing against the passage of this Bill. Here's a little gym (01:23:12) here. We have not negotiated. I would like to remind members that way you have discussed things. And we did give you (01:23:20) votes and we did share. When do we (01:23:25) learn? When do we learn that the short-term Solutions? The bank needs are going to help our people keep their jobs are going to help people look to the future of Minnesota with pride and dignity. (01:23:42) I suggest to you the (01:23:44) issue in front of us is job climate now give you an example what I (01:23:46) mean. There are two parts to (01:23:49) this as I see it (01:23:51) one is omission and one is commissioned by Omission. What I see (01:23:58) is a lack of addressing the issues that are affecting employers which in turn in fact affect jobs. (01:24:05) B they teachers (01:24:07) be they any Walk of Life as long as they have a payroll they will pay workman's compensation. They will pay unemployment (01:24:14) compensation. We are talking (01:24:18) about jobs. We are talking about jobs of every description out of one kind versus another. But that's not really the key (01:24:28) point. (01:24:31) I'm going to have to leave our live coverage of this debate from the floor of the Minnesota House of Representatives. In order to make way for all things considered the Minnesota house has been debating the budget balancing package worked out by Governor Al quie and DF ehlers in the House and Senate and Republicans in the Senate the independent Republicans in the house not part of the agreement insisting that unemployment comp and workers comp be included in the package the test vote in the house is particularly crucial because the DF Elders have only 70 volts maximum 68 are required to pass a bill and if no independent Republicans vote for the bill, it will take a nearly solid dfl. Caucus to get this bill through Our broadcast of this live debate was made possible in part with the financial assistance of the Minneapolis Tribune the engineer for the broadcasters Tad Gorn flow. This is Bob Potter reporting live from the Minnesota state capitol.