And good evening. Once again, welcome to special half hour to supplement to All Things Considered tonight. We're going to have a conversation with Joseph Alexander. Joe. Alexander will be the new acting commissioner the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, certainly one of the toughest and most powerful jobs in state government. He was elected last week by Governor perpich to fill the position and the current DNR commissioner William know I resigned after Alexander has been with the department for over 20 years now and I think it would be fair to say that his selection is met with a good deal of favorable reaction both from the staff at the DNR and from those groups what you've been frequent critics of the department and that Acceptance in itself is no mean accomplishment given the controversy that traditionally surrounds the department. Anyway, Joe Alexander is here tonight to talk about his plans for the Department also this evening or reporters Red Baron and John really are on hand. They regularly cover the DNR and then a little while we'll be taking some questions from those of you who are listening as well but to begin mr. Alexander,Congratulations, and when do you actually take over when you start thank you for inviting me. I don't have an exact date for taking over commission and I resigned effective no later than June 30th fuse on the office now cleaning up some of the Loose Ends. I'm going to take a short trip starting Friday and when I get back, we'll get more serious about the actual day of take over. Mr. Alexander, one of the first things I want to ask you to do something that Gary alluded to for some time for years perhaps from the Inception of the DNR been plagued with the series of the problems really going to its Public Image somehow everything the DNR does seems to a result in some measure of controversy or if you can tell us what you believe accounts for that and what you can do to work toward change for better public acceptance all I believe some of the controversy that we have gotten into especially in the last few years has been simply by the terrific increase in the price of land. It's been an unprecedented increase as the Land Management agency in the regulatory agency. We regulate more and more and what each regulation that we put in we have a new group of dissidents and people who don't like that regulation, even though some people had asked for a particular regulation. This is accurate over. Of years and we're now in a position of regulating in a tremendous. Four people in the state of Minnesota some 2 million fishermen 300000 snowmobilers at 350,000 small game hunters and I could go on and on with it with the number of people State Park users skier, cross-country skiers and so forth. So we are regulating and and touching an awful lot of people seems to me that's part of the problem as well has to do with what appears to me to be a part of me a dual role that the DNR has that on the one hand of the DNR is there to protect our natural resources on on the other hand it's there to promote their use. Sometimes these two rolls come into conflict. I wonder which way you lean. I lean more toward the multiple use of our resources and I do a complete protectionist attitude toward some of the resources and I'd like to explain a little bit when I talk about multiple use. I'm not talkin about destruction of any natural resources. I believe our goal and are charging natural resources in the is the enhancement. The resources we are protecting and I do not see that role as one of complete protection and all cases. There are some areas that that do need extreme protection there. Some of the crust of our land is very fragile. It must be taken care of but by and large the natural resources state of Minnesota with the exception of a non-renewable resources can be managed properly and use my number of people and can be used to a great advantage to both the resource and the people that really takes us to the question of the bwca the clearly the DNR does not have a lot to do with the actual operation of The Boundary Waters canoe area per se yet what the commissioner of the department has to say on the subject is heard and listen to buy off and we experienced a great deal of reaction such comments. You've indicated you prefer multiple use. I wonder if you can tell us just how far that preference goes perhaps in terms of the current bills before Congress the ability. Clean the closest Torrid. Is he over star bill, which of which affords a great deal of complete protection in the bwca, which I think is proper but it also allows for some motorized use of some of the Fairfield lakes and snowmobile routes in the winter time. Neither, which I believe will bother the sanctity of the inner part of the bwca. We have some negotiating that we would like to do but the concept of the older start bill seems to fit closer to my idea than any of the rest some traveling today. I believe appointment. Where did you go? What have you found out now that you know that you'll be heading the department store. I started this morning. I want to visit all of our Region's and I took commercial airline to Bemidji and met with our regional people plus a couple people from the press and radio in Bemidji. And from there. I went over to Cass Lake and met with the tribal leaders of the Chippewa tribe. They were meeting in in Cass Lake. These people have been good supporters. Mine and they are they have been supportive of being our policies and I would like to keep a good working relationship with him. I went back to Bemidji and took all our own DNR airplane over to Grand Rapids and did the same thing there and met with as many people as I could in Grand Rapids got back over an hour or so ago and I came on over here for more than half of the 2021 years that you have been in was it primarily game warden for 14 years over there are several positions and that time. Of northwell, we started out as game wardens and then by a legislative act we became conservation officers and my nine years in Bigfork. Where is a field game warden, then I became a regional supervisor in Mankato and I was appointed assistant commissioner for Administration in the department from the supervisory Post in Mankato. It was generally feel super supervisory work and conservation officer work. Yes for 14 years did some of the problems that you and your colleagues out in the field in front with acre. DNR commissioner then do you find that you still have some of the same problems in the department? I didn't quite follow that when you were out in the field. If you find that some of the problems you had with whomever may have been DNR commissioner. Then people may initially be saying they have some of this is some of the same problems today that not that much may have changed over the last couple of decades. I believe that the relationship of the feel to the commissioner has changed drastically in the last 20 years when I became a game warden first became a game warden George selke was a commission of natural resources and a very fine commissioner in my estimation. But no man, that was that you did not approach unless you want to restrict channels about as far as we ever got at the time and as far as we ever needed to get was a director Game and Fish who were around at that time very seldom. Did we ever have filled contact with what's a commissioner, which has changed a great deal? Commissioner are precious little too early acting commissioner. Let me ask you this. One of the criticisms that commissioner know I was faced with in some cases by the staff at the DNR was that he was too much of a an administrator. He was known as an administrator and it said to have caused a number of morale problems at the DNR. This is contrasted with what is generally accepted as a different kind of management style posed by commissioner Herbst before not commissioner groups used to make a point of indicating that his office was open to all stamp distinctly different kind of administrative style. How would you characterize your style? While I believe it's going to contrast greatly with both of the style that you've described a commission and I was not the outgoing type that that you have described are very personable Gentleman on a one-to-one situation a very dedicated person to the cause of natural resources, and I just don't think he had time to get his ideas across but I expect my office to be as wide open as it can possibly be in again. I keep the job going there is there is a limit to just how much you can do and how much can get out in the open and still keep the job open. I Spector at Point a very strong deputy and work as a cord ministrator with that Deputy saw that both of us can be freed up at times and be able to talk to and meet with the public. I expect our meetings to be as open as we can possibly make them. I hope that the media will feel free to ask to come to any meetings are where they aren't we aren't making a Personnel take decisions or something. It's covered under the Privacy Act. But if it's something that we're doing and just discussing that that's not a secret. I like to have them there. I'd like for people to know what we're doing. And find out what our problems are and maybe find out that we don't have as many alternatives to choose from as they think we do and maybe they can be involved in that decision making process the problems so noted by number of Staff members at the DNR had to do with the commissioners of commissioner knives efforts to reorganize the department many of our listeners will recall stories in which we pointed out that makes turn I was attempting to reorganize on a functional basis. This was his word in some cases attended the split up unit. So one in particular come to mind as the Wild and Scenic Rivers program. We remember the people were shunted off into a new planning department this created problems. What kind of reorganization if any will you attempt there will be some organizational changes and I've tried away from that question considerably since the first time was asked for the number of reasons. I don't want a lot of people shook up in the department. They might have to do some moving around or something like that to structure. Planning the commissioner night full of proposed is a song structure the two Bureau concept put in their system commissioner and that's required by law heading it. Although I do believe that we may have moved too many people into the planning function and completely stripped the disciplines. So as result of that I've asked at any move any physical move of the planning section to the Space Center be held up until we can take a look at the exact number of people that we would like to move into that. I believe we can take a better look now at the number of people that that should go into planning directly into planning. We need the planning function, but I think we need some of it from the discipline toward the organized section of planning or the Bureau of planning and not so much of it to end right in planning your listening to a special supplement to All Things Considered or speaking this evening with Alexander has been appointed the new acting commissioner of the Department of Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. John Morley and Greg Barron in the studios and if you would like to talk to mr. Alexander have a question for him. We ask that you give us a call. If you live in the Twin City area you can call with your question is to to 11550. Let's to to 11550 in the Twin City area. If you live outside the Twin Cities anywhere in Minnesota, you can call us toll-free if you'd like. The number is one 800-652-9700. We ask that if you do call in with a question to keep a question briefly like to take just as many as we can have you learned anything else since the week that the governor was going through that seven day process of trying to decide between yourself and Senator Jerry will it especially since there were several indications as you may have noticed that at least part of that we the governor was leaning toward Willett. Apparently we let himself told a couple of lawmakers that he was offered the job the announcement did not come that weekend. You were named. Have you been able to fill in any of those pieces when you were not in any contact with the governor's office at all that week tell you the truth John? I haven't even tried I am I considered Jerry a and an excellent candidate for the job of commissioner natural resources. I made up my mind some time ago that the governor new my qualifications. He had it he had a good copy of my position on various issues in the department and I just let it alone and let him decide he had that he had to use the best information to get possible and I talked to Jerry will it there is no problem between us at all. We we both agreed that we work very closely together. So I didn't even I didn't even try to fill many of those pieces. I I got the job and I guess that was the net result that I was looking for. So it was good enough. What type of relationship do you plan to have with the governor or have you covered that yet? I believe it's going to be a very good. Working relationship. I'm going to work directly with Terry Montgomery has a tan formulating department policies up until the time that it's turned over to me fully and I'll run everything by them discuss it with them minimize the number of problems and disagreements that there might be work out any problem that I can with them. They're willing to talk and they want a good working Department of Natural Resources. Just the same as I do when this is our way. I think we get it doesn't that suggest that you'll be perhaps a little less independent as Commissioners go then then Commissioners have been in the past is a Visa V. The problem that the governor has enunciated regarding Public Image of the DNR. No, I don't believe so. I think the people actually the people that know me are are fearing just the opposite and I'm going to get myself in trouble, but that that remains to be seen I don't intend to get in a great deal of trouble on that. But I do it I do plan to discuss any decisions that I have with with appropriate staff. I I don't want to Make some unilateral decision would embarrass a bunch of people if there's some other way of doing it, but I don't believe that I'm going to have any direct orders to do a particular task from the governor's office without some discussion on it. And it's so you don't see yourself as a Governor's man. No, I die. I see him as my boss. He we're both in the executive branch of government and I see the governor asked the boss. And if I can't if we can't agree he is the boss. So that would be a decision. I have to make it that time. There will be things that we don't see eye-to-eye and I would expect to discuss those question from one of our mind your question for. Mr. Alexander Place. Hello. While we're waiting, let me ask you to Joe. Do you think that they're do you have any reason why commission or not? He has not announced exactly when he will resign since you've been named acting commissioner almost a week ago and it is not at all unusual. In fact is usually tradition that the person after an appointee is named to fill his place will step down relatively quickly. I can answer why he just didn't leave immediately know I think he's as a few loose ends that he would like to tie up before before he moves out. But as a direct answer, I I'm just afraid I can't answer them free commission. I would have been to that. We will try to get a phone call again. I think we have a question now from one of our one of our callers. If you're up there with call and question give us a call in the Twin Cities at 2 to 11550 outside. The metropolitan area of the number is one 800-652-9700. And we do have someone on the line right now. What is your question for? Mr. Alexander evening? I got some questions about three part I guess. Prior to commissioner night, assuming the commissioner of parole and natural resources. How many classified positions to the department have? We have we have about 80 to unclassified positions in the department that varies front depending on what some of our funding it but it runs about 80-day T2 unclassified positions the type that you're talkin about. This is all includes are almost anything that I would have the power to point to set up to special funding some terms that we use in state government are some budgetary also authorized positions you have a job to do and you can identify the money. There's a provision made that you can a point above compliment for those positions on an action basis in later on turn them into compliment positions lcmr funded positions that are for a specific project. No specific length of time are unclassified position. Elsa Mars or legislative Commission on Minnesota resources the penny of tax on cigarettes and other words that that is used for every resource work. These could be us you have a specific question sir at the glass legislative session. Someone proposed that they be the create print another 500 of these by classifying positions. Okay. Thank you very much in the car. Hello, you're on the air. I'm curious. about as people who live here in the metropolitan area to or perhaps majority taxpayers for the state of Minnesota Who have to put up with this business of? Of the almost seems discrimination against two. We tourists who like to run around in northern Minnesota and enjoy the Wilderness and so forth. Please respond to that. If you could give me an example of the Discrimination you're talking about and what sample did the fishermen have to put up with? I personally I worked up there for a long time and and I worked in a small town in a small town where a great amount of the Taurus and the dollars that came out of that town or Taurus dollars and I have not seen any of the type of thing that you're talking about the hostility toward tours coming in other than some of the bwca controversy and things like this that are happening generally the business people in the townspeople up their realize that the uterus daughter is a is a great amount of their income and I really can't I really can't answer you on that. I just haven't seen it. I guess my concern is that do you know? And perhaps this is something that has to be worked out tip to let you know we down here in the city have to enjoy and appreciate all that beautiful untouched Wilderness i-41 resent the fact. Yeah, we are not allowed to do so. Okay. Thank you are in the majority. If you have a question for mr. Alexander, we ask to keep it brief to to 11550 in the Twin Cities. And for those of you outside, the metropolitan area would like to hear from you as well. You can talk call us toll-free at 1 800-652-9700 and we have another caller on the line. You're on the Eric for you with your question, but evening questions for mr. Alexander. I'm presently a DNR employee and I've been particularly stunned. Through the last three Commissioners that we've had about the mismanagement and middle-level and upper-level positions and also the cost overruns that alright I'ma evident in DNR. I don't know if it's just a government. I've come from private Enterprise in the system. And then and if the taxpayers knew was going on, I'm sure they would be stunned. Also. I was wondering if Joe is going to do any thing about that or he had any comments on it. Yes, Joe does plan on doing something about it. There will be reduction at the top. I agree that our department has become rather top-heavy there are some composers positions and top-level management in DNR that that will not be filled their some position that toppled top-level now that may be abolished. So we may I don't know what the net result will be but change their will be yes. Good. Thank you. Thank you very much. I have a new Deputy that I have asked to join me and I I believe he is almost positive. He has consented. Yes to be my Deputy. He's deep snoring. He's a top put one of our top attorneys with the attorney general's Department attached to the department has a long history and long history of experience and natural resources work. Okay, let's not sure if this person is from outside the metropolitan area are not good evening your on the year ends with Grant mineral Timber and other leases and other divisions which serve to protect the Wildlife and Fish and just a general in environment and I was wondering how Mr. Exam. Alexander proposes to deal with this potential conflict. I hope to deal with in the department in the same manner as I plan on dealing with the public Cloud outside the department. I plan on having those people together with WhatsApp. With their Mutual problems laid out on the table. I think it always solutions to them. And I know exactly what you're talkin about in the it with the forestry interest, of course is to see how to see if we can get the allowable cut close to the demand for the wind that we have and this may or may not be in conflict with Seguin management process process is or plans in many cases. It is it's made a run and run very close very close parallel the disciplines and I think that the secret to this is getting together and talking about it working out the plans that we have within the department. I think we got to do a lot of talking in a lot of across the table arguing. I think it can be done. There's another example of this conflict of conflict that I suggested earlier in Wetlands a DNR traditionally has attempted to protect Wetland areas for the propagation of waterfowl on the other hand the farmers throughout the state of often feel real need. Green the wetlands put that land in protection into production. It seems to me that sometimes these conflicts can't be worked out by talking about them and I'm not sure that I'm clear yet on unjust which way you're going earlier you suggested that you felt multiple use was important but still in an example like this. There is no middle ground in the area Wetlands. We only have so much water. That's it. And you're evil Wetlands we have now. I think we have demonstrated in the state that Wetland areas can be multiple use areas. We have friend Jerry's on the Lakes at Glenda Wetlands that are prime examples of multiple. Use we have we have a fishing report a phishing hunting trapping and and also some friend Jerry is a farming and wet in my Wetland Management areas that are the friends crops that we sure crop on and I believe that this is a good example of multiple you has been when you start talking to about a particular Wetland at vs. Draining it for cropland know this way. Take out. This would take a hard decision on whether or not that should be a dream tonight. It's going when it's gone. It's gone. Anyway, there's no way that we're going to restore that that I can see if it's turned into a crop plant this where land values have come in that lamb to a few years ago was worth $25 an acre and if it's drained it's worth a thousand down some areas. So we're actually talking to a lot of money somewhere phone calls. I'm going from Alexandria and I have a question in regards to Winter Recreation and multiple youth. How do you intend to resolve the incompatibility between snowmobiles and cross country skiing? I just don't believe the cross-country skiers and snowmobilers can use the same trails with any degree of success. They're going to have to be separate facilities for those. I didn't you didn't identify which one you Associated. What's maybe both It's Not Unusual for cross-country skier to have a snowmobile. Greer you can't you can't ski much on snowmobile trails, especially if you got a lot of traffic there's going to just pretty inevitable that something's going to happen. But we must over there there must be some some recreational opportunities for the cross-country skiers. This is one of the one of the projects in our department is involved with us and we have a number of miles of cross country ski trails now and I'm sure those are going to be increased but the answer your question is no way that there is going to be compatible on the same Trail. Okay. We have only about three more minutes or so. We'd like to get as many questions in as possible. Good evening here on the air. Alexander thought that the policy of the Minnesota dealing with the Indian tribes and their hunting and fishing rights with the basic Leah continuing to his administration and that there would be a respectability to go. She ate its elements of the issues are we cannot negotiate settlements with the wider than any other reservation short of the lawsuit 3 we are limited by state law on just what we can do in the Indian reservations are some administrative procedures that we can follow that would clarify certain areas of disagreement. But the waiters cases in court cases in Grand Portage that have benefited Court malaxis, ask for some clarification of up some laws, but the administrative leave we're working very close with him and two weeks Lake agreement. It's at my lawn. We we must administer that by law. We're getting along very well with it. In fact I met up there today with those people and I think we're both very happy with that agreement the way it's worked out. It was predicted wouldn't work this long and we've done pretty well. Okay, thank you very much. I guess so time for a couple more calls. Good evening. You're on the air. Dial tone. Well quiet we got time for a couple more questions gentleman, Jon Morely. I want to ask you a little bit of your current situation as we mentioned earlier you going to be you're going to be in kind of a holding pattern for maybe the next few days few weeks conceivably went till the end of June you and the current commissioner a separated by a very thin wall. If your in your same office, are you going to be taking time off or is there a problem right now as far as touring the state talking on radio shows when you still have a a commissioner in there? Have you discussed anything since you were named where you we haven't discussed very much about the job the Commissioners agreed down with us with me into the governor's office at new appointment will be made by him. No major decision doesn't know that are discussed with me. I am going to get out for a few days. I I don't think the situation could work very long, but the two of us are one designating won. The commissioner people are asking for Decisions by me that I cannot make I refuse to make him and I refused to reveal any of my plans on changes. Department I can't do that very long so we will have to work on and we'll have to work on the closing date okay time for one more quick. Hello and ministers in Minnesota snowmobile trail assistance program in according to a name formula that came in two and a half billion dollars in the last year. I played two and a half a dollar spent on giving bulldozers Crosse Farmers fields and pastures and traffic of 300 400 machines on weekend. There are no 7,000 miles of trails that snowmobile trails in the state already. My question is when is this going to stop I believe now that we slow down a great deal. The thing we're interested in most right now is the designated trail that we have on the books of getting those ready for you is there's a taconite trail in northern Minnesota and several trails that are identified. But I believe our number one priority and snowmobile trails now is to get the plans out and finish the tree. What we have proposed and I think that we we have to put an end date on a number of miles. Okay, thank you very much. We've been talking with Joseph Alexander Pointe it last week. Is it going to acting commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources? We're sorry if you called us and we didn't get to you this evening time limitations prevent us from taking any more questions been a pleasure having you here. Mr. Alexander. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be good luck in your new job for Greg bear on John Muir. Like, this is Gary. I can invite him to say to and I'll mixed-media coming up next on these listener-supported stations.