On this regional public affairs program, reports by Tom Meersman and Dale Connelly on Dutch elm disease, followed by call-in with Minneapolis City Forester Dave DeVoto and Judy Barr, coordinator for the Saint Paul Shade Tree program. DeVoto and Barr also answer listener questions.
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Spring began this week temperatures Rose the sunny merged and we began to thaw warmer days Mark the Resurgence of the infamous elm bark Beetle this morning on our public affairs hour. We take a look at where we stand in the battle against Dutch elm disease, but before we anticipate 1978, Tommy Roseman has prepared this report about what happened in 1977 and what's being done to make use of trees. We lost city Cruz tree service companies have been pruning trimming and cutting down Elm trees on a massive scale during the past two years st. Paul last 47,000 Elms in 1977 in Minneapolis, 32,000 together. The Twin Cities will lose 65,000 more trees to Dutch elm disease in 1978.You don't treat disposal became an immediate problem last year, and today City officials are still looking for Solutions before last September Elm trees were burned or dumped at Central locations. But on a large scale that proved to be too expensive and environmentally damaging. So the Twin Cities have been experimenting with something never tried in such a large Plan before utilization utilization means at Elm logs and brush or chip to provide material for companies to manufacture products such as home insulation material composition wallboard roofing felt writing papers and cardboard and if the test proves successful fuel for power plants, the Elmwood has been piling up since last fall on Pig's Eye Island near downtown Saint Paul on the Mississippi River.Northland poke company contracted to receive process and Market The Elms Pig's Eye Island was not the best site but it was the cheapest and any environmental concerns were superseded by the emergency of the situation and the lack of alternative sites Northlands Vice President of Operations, William Sadler explain some of the problems that his poke company has experienced in the city of Saint Paul did such a good job of trying to catch up with the elm tree disease is it came in so much faster than the Machinery that was installed here could process it takes almost a year to build one of these machines and if you need it at the rate of it that it was being delivered last fall. We would have needed five or six of these large machines instantly to keep up with it. So it would just was notPossible to provide that much equipment that rapidly this winter Northland has added portable chippers to increase their wood processing capacity, but over 20 acres of logs piled 10 to 15 feet high cannot be treated quickly 700 times a day when the fuel burn comes on line that will go up by about another thousand times a day. I'm not certain when the new contracts will start hauling but I suspect it's in early June I would be foolish to say that we would have this lot completely clear at the time the New Holland starts, but that's not possible William Sadler vice president of operations for Northland poke company.Northland has processed about 35% of last year's felled trees affect the troubles officials like Jane Mayer of the State Department of Agriculture, shade tree disease program of Agriculture has been monitoring the activities that pays I quite closely and we are aware of the large volume would that has now accumulated there and it's very upsetting to see that amount of wood stockpiled and we are investigating Alternatives. We have discussed with the pollution control agency What alternative is might be acceptable to them and it appears that there's very few Alternatives because of the location of the site and the site was chosen just so that there might be criticism as to where I was at the site chosen then it was perhaps the only site available at the time and it was closing. It was to facilitate that theFree of the disease would and working and we stuck with the site now Department of Agriculture may study this spring is the possibility that bark beetles hatching from the huge stockpile might be able to fly with the help of wind to infect healthy trees along the river most plant pathologist believe those chances are minimal but agree that it would be better if the stockpile wasn't there at all when the Beatles become active in late April and May the elm log stockpile on Pig's Eye Island will probably be reduced in the next 2 months then increased greatly as a 1978 trees begin to arrive Judy bar coordinator of st. Paul shade tree disease program suggests a realistic strategy may be to leave last year's Hall isolated and concentrate on processing the 1978 trees as they arrive.But what excites nearly everyone concerned with elm tree disposal and utilization is the hope that northern states power company might be able to burn finely ground wood in combination with Cole and its power plants would ground to the texture of sawdust can flash burn in Cyclone furnaces and NSP has agreed to afford a test burn whenever Northland pulp can provide the material the problem. Once again has been the lack of specific Machinery in this case to produce a very fine chips and SP spokesman Wayne Kaplan discusses the power company's position waiting for them to come up with the size chips that we need for testbirds at our Riverside plant in Northeast, Minneapolis.We need facilities are chips that are roughly about a quarter of an inch in any size that he diameter if they're too large. They will not burn properly in our boilers, which was designed to Barrie Colts and we've Northland that's if they can get that size chips and we need we will run a test bird and we had hoped to have completed that test burned by later last year or early this year. The last I've heard is that weird Al hoping to have that test burn sometime this month or next month. What would involve is taking I believe? It's 800 tons of the wood chips and putting it in the boiler. We would be testing to see what kind of emissions come from the stack and before any kind of final decision would be paid the Minnesota Pollution Control agency would have to observe and certify the stack emissions being within state standards.If the test burn was successful are some of your other plants than capable of also burning the wood chips at the Riverside in Minneapolis would be the king plant which is a Bayport long the st. Croix River down in Red Wing. We have a small call facility and we have an oil facility in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, which we would like to use to Burkwood for us to really give them the go-ahead. It would have to be the cost of the fuel would have to be comparable to what we're okay for coal Wayne Caplan of northern states power company equipment to produce the 800 tons of sawdust is currently being installed in a Minneapolis test burn is expected during the second week in April, but even if the material Burns cleanly enough for state air-quality standards and cheaply enough for NSP three to four months will be required to install a larger permanent chipper and make the system fullyOperational meanwhile logs and brush will continue to pile up on Pig's Eye Island. And if Northland is awarded other contracts it is seeking Elm logs may also be arriving at Pig's Eye this summer from some of the counties surrounding the Twin Cities. At least one other plan in the area will make use of disease Elmwood go on a much smaller scale with a grant from northern states Power Company in the Minnesota Energy agency a small nonprofit business asset to establish a fire with Depot in the northern Minneapolis suburb of Plymouth, Minnesota intermediate technology Development Group, which Advocates Alternative Energy Systems has agreed to jointly manage the depot with the city of Plymouth the depot may be ready laid in June and 10 to 15 workers will debark cure and cut disease Elms for firewood Thomas Griffin Development Group president said a steam engine will power the operation an old-fashioned case steam engine to be used as a power source there and it will be fed with the with the waste wood itself. So what we really want to to demonstrate is as that many forms of technology, which we have discarded. Let's say even the last 40 years. Are practical in the future in many cases? The older Technologies are still here to some degree in the case of steam engines that it's surprising to me. How many of them there are in the state of Minnesota? So we have we would like to use the steam engine to demonstrate that form of Technology at the same time using the waste wood and bringing more attention to the power of wood. Griffin said optimistic projections call for processing 9000 trees. He added that there will be a study of wood burning potential ways to adapt wood burning system to Conventional Heating units and safety requirements for wood-burning Griffin also said that there would be stacked at the Depot for purchase at reasonable cost. He said it will be a small operation, but he hoped it will be significant for Minnesota Energy Future IT debarking machine, which we're going to modify for use at the site. chainsaws some log splitting machines the steam engine that's about it. I what it is it going to be. high technology extremely expensive operation. We're also going to have a sawmill but the Sawmill is we hope is going to be supplementary. We're not trying to start another Sawmill operation. But we do have to face the question of can we handle the number of logs that are going to be available to us over the next two two or three years and then we hope beyond that. Maybe there would be a program of thinning out County forest lands and so on that we want to make it possible for wood to be available as a cheap or reasonable form of fuel Thomas Griffin of the Minnesota intermediate technology Development Group, 1977 and 1978 could be the peak years for Dutch elm disease in the Twin Cities neighborhood sanitation programs and fungicides may slow down the rate of infestation, but thousands of trees will continue to die over the next several years and the problems of elm tree disposal just beginning to be addressed now are likely to remain For some time. I'm Tom meersman Plant scientist meeting in Minneapolis. Learn this week about a purported cure for Dutch elm disease. We have that report from Dale Conley. The scientists are part of a program called dual sponsored by the freshwater biological Research Foundation and some Twin Cities businesses and Foundations the total budget for the 3-year project is $400,000 and work began in the Dual program in September of 1977. Perhaps the most significant development is that dr. Gary Strobel of Montana State University has located a bacteria that in laboratory tests actually kills the fungus that causes Dutch elm disease the bacteria was found on the leaves of pear trees. The pear tree doesn't produce the bacteria. It just so happens that the bacteria lives there. The bacteria is called an epiphyte it lives off the energy supplies that leaked out of the leaf many leaves Harbor epiphytes, but the pear tree epiphyte is the only one that's been So far, they will do an effective job of killing the Dutch Elm fungus. Dr. Strobel says the next step in the investigation is to test the bacteria in the field. We would try some off-the-cuff type things like introducing the bacterium into trees young trees and then go back and then try to inoculate these trees with the fungus. And if they if the fungus won't take if the tree is immune and we would check to see if they antibiotic was present in the tree and that would be a strong indictment against the the antibiotic as we get the factor that's involved in resistance and conferring resistant. Dr. Strobel has also been able to determine what in the Dutch Elm fungus actually causes the disease it's called the glycopeptide and dr. Strobel says it chemically resembles, and starch. This is one we can begin to understand why the disease is a disease Lisa because this compound will make the symptoms of Wilt of yellowing of necrosis that are commonly associated with the diseases found in in in nature, even further. You don't say that the fungus causes the disease you say the fungus creates or causes the glycopeptide which in turn causes the symptoms that we say and in the future we I'd like to take to actually examine infected plant material to determine if the glycopeptide is infected plant material and that would even make it to more of an indictment on the fact that the glycopeptide is involved the research of dr. Strobel and his colleagues will continue several years before we can expect to see anything made widely available as a cure or preventative for Dutch elm disease tangible results will probably be seen at an earlier date from work being done by doctors Gerald Lanier Milton Silverstein and John peacock of the State University of New York at Syracuse the three scientists have managed to discover what chemicals attract the elm bark beetles to the tree. It seems that female elm bark beetles secrete to chemicals that attract both male and female Beatles ironically when the elm tree is under attack. It also secretes a chemical that when combined with the secretions of the female Beatles tends to increase the attraction for other. Bark beetles linear Silverstein and peacock have not only managed to isolate the three chemicals. They've been able to copy the secretions of The Beatles and they found an effective substitute for the secretions of the tree. The end result is a combination which is controlling and tests to strongly attract the elm bark beetles to a trap consisting of sticky paper coated with an insecticide that kills the Beatles. Near thinks these traps can be used to keep the elm bark beetles, which carry the deadly fungus away from Elm trees that we can take the Beatles wherever we want them. So we lure them to open areas such as parking lots are playgrounds industrial areas areas for the Elms aren't there's no problem in that the Beast will go wherever the traps are an experimental situation. We've been able to love Demonstrate duck has been embarrassed in his experiments in California when he found that he caught 110% of the population that they've calculated to be in the area. Dr. Gerald Lanier the State University of New York. He has two mates that the European elm bark beetle traps could be commercially available for communities By 1979, Irondale Connell. Dr. Ward steenstra plant pathologist at the University of Minnesota is encouraged by doctor strobel's laboratory cure, but he cautions that 1,000 compounds have been developed to battle Dutch Elm. But only to have proved effective enough to reach the commercial Market discovery of the antibiotic or the discovery of the glycopeptide is not something that is really all that new the Dutch have done some work with glycopeptides and have found this particular structure in Elm trees and also in the in a fungal filtrates So that's not particularly new. I believe this might be the first time that this specific bacteria has been suggested is something we can inject into a healthy tree and get resistance into it. I don't know what this bacteria will do in an elm tree, but I'm surprised at Gary Strobel hasn't checked that already has certainly elm tree seedlings are available at all time, I guess. I've been criticized because of this article my association with Dutch elm disease in a few people are saying well, I see you're publishing now expected results and I guess it's encouraging it's exciting but it's certainly something that's expected. It's not something is real this time. You can take this bacteria, you take all kinds of organisms that suggested and in a test tube or in a Petri plate you can do certain things, but can you get that to happen at the natural point of interaction and that is in the water conducting system of an l and it's been at one of the problems with chemical injections is can we get a product into the water conducting system of the tree that won't cause any danger to the tree but will selectively inhibit and kill the the fungus. You were taking a bacteria that normally grows on the surface of a leaf a fairly arid dry environment and I'm going to put it into a water conducting system over a wet. If you will just a broad generalization. Okay a dry to very wet environment and expecting that bacteria then to grow and develop normally not cause any damage to the tree. And also then produce the antibiotic and concentrations great enough to inhibit the fungus. I think it's exciting. There's all kinds of things in science like this that are exciting but my concern is the practical application of it and are people going to say while I'm going to wait until 1979 when there's a miracle antibiotic or this new multi lower trap is available. What we have to do now is continue the sanitation program. That's our best. Hope of maintaining our own population and translating are Elm population into a mixed species for reforestation. What about the young Beetle lower that was discussed? Well, I think you sounded up quite well and saying that in the experimental work that they did they trapped 110% of what they thought was there. The other entomologist that I'm aware of will tell us that the traps are not as efficient as the natural female the Virgin female or the elm tree itself. So I best you're just competing with the red light down the street and if that's all you're doing. It's not going to be an answer. There are some places where I think we might be able to apply apply this technique for monitoring when insect activity occurs when you might be doing some other treatments, but as far as that effectively taking the elm bark beetles out of an area of the size of Minneapolis. I don't see the application of it you mention that sanitation is still the best program that we have going for us. But before we get to discussion of that, where is your research taking you currently and what Avenues are you exploring? The research at Minnesota is taking us at the systemic fungicide approach much effort was put in the last two years in the dos and a location on the tree that's best suited for healing and uptake of the material under the tree. This is a chemical injection. There are two chemical injection to the yes. That's been probably them the most exciting area the most glamorous area research other things that have been going on other methods of detecting at aerial photography. You also looking at improving the situation as far as Rick rasch, how can you best install ribcraft barrier and the basic kind of information about sanitation is where the research at University of speech is being focused on as far as the chemical injections that you discuss. Is it possible that this is something I could come online as a retard the growth of Dutch element of the proliferation of The Beatles in the tree is it wore them off? What does it do in jacket with systemic fungicides and dies from Dutch elm disease is going to be colonized and is going to produce a generation of elm bark beetles just as well as a treat. It's not injected. There are some real limitations with a product that doesn't control the beetle at all. It's directed at the fungus. The other limitations that we see use it. It's an annual process each year. You have to go to the tree and put this material into it. And in that process we see danger because the tree is wounded and these wounds are then sites for bacterial wetwood and other Decay to become established into the tree. The other limitation is if you're dealing with a tree and as you count up the number of trees multiply that by the number of times you have to treat your dealing with something that is very limited. You can't treat all of the trees in a particular control area. Therefore, we feel sanitation which deals with a population and not individuals is the important thing for a community to be concerned about if individuals want to Spend the additional money and have a tree injected the choices their seats online as you say you can go buy the product. There are companies that will put it into the tree for you. You can buy the equipment yourself and with a little bit of practice you can inject the tree yourself. It's not a complicated procedure fact last year. We had a training session in Minneapolis on how to inject the tree and there will be another one coming up in April of this year where where should people go to find out what I'm eaten hotel. If our best bet is to talk to at least save the disease off for a while. Why why do we selectively pick trees? Why aren't we doing more clear cutting in? Just cleaning out neighborhoods? What's the theory behind selective cutting? Well weird selectively cutting trees that are infected and trees that are in the process of dying because those are the trees with an elm bark beetle is going to reproduce and the goal of course is to keep trees in a community for as long as possible and there's no reason why if your community or your area wants to selectively come in and take all the trees down right now go right ahead. But most of us would rather live underneath the shade of a tree then around the stumps. So the goal of our program of Sanitation is no different. Then it is with injection. We're trying to prolong the life of the tree or the tree population and some people have said and and criticized I guess that sanitation is nothing more than cutting down trees. That's not what we talkin about. You can have an identification and a tree removal program without having any effect on the rate of disease spread sanitation is taking a tree finding it taking it but finding the tree recognizing it as being diseased is in the process of dying and removing that tree before it can be colonized by the elm bark beetle. Then we have the opportunity to reduce the elm bark Beetle population and therefore reduce the disease. The goal seems to the cutting down of trees is not the goal. The goal is the removal of material that the beetle can use his brood wood. And if we don't do that the numbers of bark beetles increases tremendously we have more disease more trees died and it's a very vicious circle. Is it just a matter of time ultimately are all the trees doomed all the albums due to fall in time? If we don't work at Dutch elm disease that Altima Dan will be here sooner other words 80 90 per-cent of the on population will be gone and Dad aggressively working at it. We can delay that time. Ultimately all of our trees will be dying ultimately with or without Dutch elm disease. All of our trees will be dying for you don't live forever and Dutch elm disease simply speeds up that process of changing the elm forest and aggressive sanitation program spreads the losses out over a longer period the time you still have to take down the trees few clear-cut and burn you still have to take the trees down. But how do you want to do this? Do you want to do this in one year 5 years or do you want to have 10 or 15 years to remove the old trees from your community? Certainly the the latter part? Delayed removal of the young population gives you time to do it and also gives you time to replant and reforest. Dr. Ward steenstra plant pathologist at the University of Minnesota time now 27 minutes after 10 meals and Anthony speaking live from our Saint Paul studio with me for the duration of our public affairs hour this morning or Dave Devoto director of Forestry for the City of Minneapolis and Judy bar coordinator coordinator for st. Paul's shade tree program. They've what's left of the original Elm population in Minneapolis. Well, we started off with about two hundred thousand trees. We need an estimate on the private trees the public we knew what we had. It was about a hundred twenty thousand Republic and we came up with our figure based on an assumption that disease would be percentage-wise the same on public and private so it came up with about two hundred thousand trees. We've lost now about close to forty-five thousand. So we got the what are the different sickness we got that left and we've got a lot of trees left its you know, we talked about like last year losing 30 mm trees in one year and it sounds like you're not absolute disaster. It was a disaster in that sense, but we still have a tremendous amount of them. So where we still have a program that we've got it maintain to keep the ones we still have at least a situation like in St. Paul population of about 131000 Elms. We basically went to the same type of procedure is Minneapolis did Through the end of 77 that includes the trees that we've removed, you know, when the first few months is 78. We lost about 76,000 trees. We've got about 55,000 left. That's roughly 42% of the original population buildings in St. Paul. So we still have a fair number of our room trees left in St. Paul to be looking at But you've experienced hire losses than the City of Minneapolis. Yes. We lost about forty 7078 which r77 which compares to Dave's 32,000 you cut down. Are you cutting Elms year-round? Are you staying ahead of the disease in 76 we were cutting year-round. We just couldn't possibly get the trees down and I guess we went clear into probably late March of 77 still cutting trees from here before now this year in 77, we had tremendous number trees and they came down slowly but we did get them all down by Boston middle of November. We had everything down for the year are we have been doing cutting now basically along the rivers the woods area is just taking out trees that are either dead or are essentially dead so that we can get it after all the material out of the city that couldn't read Beatles as well for after we are again now looking for new career. You always have something for you. So don't make it through the winter. For some reason you get in the spring and some trees just don't come back out. And so those are the ones we're looking at now trying to find a taking those down. So when we get in due time for Beetle hatch we should be just really cleaned out of Elmwood what the situation going to find 77 old probably last week as the contractors went through the various areas. We were identifying we had inspectors with them identifying trees that just plain didn't look like they would make it very similar situation and in Minneapolis, so we should have most of the if if not all of the disease Elms identify and 77 down before we get to the beetle emergencies in this year. What about chemical injections is either City sponsoring any programs? For it for injecting chemicals into trees truck to try to Stave off. John St. Paul. We're running the city is running a limited injection program primarily to see what costs and equipment that type of thing running in a field survey. We're doing about a hundred trees in in a couple downtown Parks a stretch of Summit Avenue and I believe in in Como Park, but it's it's rather limited. I guess we are telling individuals that if they want to do it, we don't really recommend it. But is that the choice that they have to make it last year? We had General Mills in the Dayton Hudson Foundation Finance experimental problems for us. We took Loring Park and Stevens Square Park and Frida doll vide treatable trees in those parts with funds from those private companies list. Season I will be looking at we were setting up now or planning for a program to treat most of the trees on Victory Memorial Dr. All the Elms up there that are dedicated Elms if we consider that a very high priority areas, so I I think only under those bases on an experimental type problem is the only way we'll be using cereal and is Judy says we're doing the same thing letting people treat any tree they want to we started off originally that you were going to Linda's and thing first hit of trying to keep track get permits people have to have a permit to treat a tree and all this and it just got absolutely overwhelmed. This was trying to keep track of it. I think one of the big problems we have with the general public just going out and treating their trees is it it's a much more intricate process than most people think most people feel like you don't just go out there a bunch of holes in a tree in plugs and things in it and run some material in and you got it done and it isn't that simple as very very touchy. You have to get the material exactly in the right tissue of the tree or your Doing any good at all. And so it's a I think for people to do it themselves. They're going to have to do some research and find out just exactly how to do it in order for it to be any good to him at all. Otherwise, you're just wasting your money does the park board sponsor any education programs know we haven't last year the extension University extension office program training school type thing and I believe there are this year again, so I guess we were there the teachers so we'll leave it to them. All right as matter fact that the lamington Hotel Minneapolis. I believe there's going to be a training program extension school at the Saint Paul campus of the University. Yeah, that's right because they're at they're the ones that are you know, they know how to go about teaching these things to people. We really don't have a staff that could handle that anyhow, and besides I'd rather see him get it from Experts you knowing exactly how to do it because we really haven't done any treatments ourselves experimental work. We did we hired a company to do it for us. So I think there's a better experts. Alright listeners are the people who have the trees that are being cut down and we want to invite your participation in this program this morning. Our guests are Dave Devoto Minneapolis City Forester and Judy bars coordinator for Saint Paul shade tree program. If you have a question for one of our Dutch Elm experts, you may call us at 221-155-0221. 1550 Devar. Judy will try to answer your question for you. Dave doctor steenstra from the University discussed reforestation. What are good trees to plant in our area? Well, I think we have to look at what we want to want that tree to do for us and a lot of people say G. What's the best tree I can plant and I don't think we can say that there is a best tree if you want some type of a very dense shade I say the maples or the hard maple syrup good for that silver maple is are the soft Maples. It's called is a very fast-growing tree in it. If you're not concerned with what happens to the three twenty years from now what you want real fast shade, I guess that's one to use. We don't use it on the streets because it's just too high maintenance costs to keep it up for Lacey shade. I'd say the honey locust is a real good choice for that. It gives more of an oriental type shade the honey locust NC to get rather large and spread out but it's not a bad choice. There are I think the best thing to do is to there are a number of real good Nursery catalogs put out locally by the local Nordstrom's Association. I've got a real good color catalog in it. It shows all the trees and give you some information about How big they get and what they look like this sort of thing. So I think if two people are looking for a particular tree, I think the thing to do is go look at those catalogs and kind of shop for it. Like you would have a car or something, you know, you have a certain thing in mind when you buy a car either one a little tiny one or you want a station wagon or whatever in I think trees kind of fit that same type of thing. They each have their own function in their own purposes. I will get back to reforestation just a moment, but I see that we have a caller was called us at 2 to 11550 lask, I guess to put on your headset so they can hear this question and a good morning. Do you have a question for Dave to vote or Judy bar? Yes, I do summer like September or August or so. I put like the fan in a great big tree twin Elm. We've got and didn't take much less as soon as I could get the question is how soon should I start again to put more in this year? Well, I guess again it kind of depends on whether you got a good got the material in the tree real well last year and if it didn't take much material I'd say you probably didn't get it in there very well. There's been a lot of discussion about when to actually treat and I guess I really can't give you a good answer on some of the researchers have said you should start very early in the spring get it in there before the Beatles get out other research has shown that the tree doesn't pick turn the tree off properly at that time of year that it's either there's too much sap floor. There's not enough and so the tree really isn't getting proper material. Okay? What what what you see right now with the weather what what does it look like for catching some of the early staph look like now or weeks or months from now or what and sidestepping you but I don't really have a good answer is I don't know for sure because it it depends on you know, which research you look at whether it's good to put it in in the early spring or whether it's better to work or wait till about late June. Nothing like that. I guess my suggestion would be to talk with the experts over at the University over to extension to the doctor seems to have one of his people and they may be able to give you some more up-to-date information. Thank you for your question or number. Once again is 2 to 11550. That's two to 11550 if you have a question about Dutch elm disease. They back of the topic of reforestation for a moment What's the supply situation? As far as trees goes are the nurseries cooperating with the city and making programs in and entries available or anywhere between about 12,000 to 15000 trees is next year depending on how we get our funding set up but I would say for the individual going out to buy a tree there is a good selection of trees and the nurseries are gearing up. I think the nurseries for a little while or what kind of caught like everybody else. I didn't expect such an explosion so quick to love of somebody lost it so it don't have to be so many trees to replant but I think they're gearing up with it and they're there are going to be crazy available. What's the public response to find that? Folks do want to get new trees in as soon as possible. Oh, yeah, I'm sure they do. In fact, that's our biggest problem is that we can't plant trees fast enough in you know, some people are going to have to wait for quite a quite a while before they actually get trees in front of their house again, when you lose 30 mm freeze in a year and you only put backed in while you're going in the hole pretty rapidly. We are working on an overall Master City plan. Now that will designate what kind of tree will go on each particular Block in the city so that we do end up with a good mixture of trees and we're looking at as I was mentioning before each tree has a particular place. It can be planted in where it's going to survive best. And so we're looking into that and putting the best tree that we can find on any particular block. Judy what sort of reforestation programs are you sponsoring in Saint Paul? And what kind of results are you getting actually planting about 24,000 trees and 78 on the boulevard 12000 B plan this for another 12 in the during The Fall season there again, we're not keeping up with the total number of losses on public property either. The thing that the city isn't doing is your we aren't able to do because of lack of funds and just the mechanics of it is to put trees obviously back on private property where they've been removed. So we have been doing this year is encouraging the 16 neighborhood groups in St. Paul to organize and deal with a nurse in a group purchase where they can look at getting discount. So we've been working with the various districts are there in various stages of organization to Approach the nurseries but the response that they've been getting from the nurseries has been excellent. All right, we have more call or standing by. Good morning. Do you have a question about Dutch elm disease I have I have a large tree in my backyard which as of last fall had some small did them in a couple of yellow teeth and I'm wondering how I can find out if it's diseased. The first place and also if I can get any financial help in at removal because I've been told it would cost about $1,000 to have it removed. I guess first of all, we should know which which City Gear Indianapolis this time of year. You'll have to wait until the leaves come out again. I wouldn't necessarily be terribly concerned about a few yellow leaves in the in a tree light in the fall of last year. There was a lot of yellowing that wasn't really Dutch elm disease, but in the whole wide say as soon as it leaves get out, then that's a time to take a look at it again. And of course, if you do see that it looks like it's disease trying to get in touch with your UW Neighborhood coordinator in each of the neighborhoods. This year will be coming out with information on who they are and how to get in touch with him a little later. But then you can call your neighborhood coordinator and they will see that the tree gets Expected for you know on a private property trees. We do have a subsidy program. We have a dual program sort of you can either have us have a contractor take the tree down for you or you can get your own contractor take it down and you are only responsible for the first time and $50 at a cost. If you do it with your own contractor, there is a ceiling on that. It can't we can't reimburse reimburse any more than what it would have cost us to have it done with our contractor. But if you do go through us, we simply send a contractor in the trees cut down. We pay the contractor the total amount and then we'll bill you later in the year and you have an option again of either paying that hundred and fifty when you get the building or it can be put on as a tax assessment and spread up to five years. So the 250 is really all you would be responsible for what about trimming of dead limbs? Yeah, we get again. We've got some conflicting research. There are at least two sides of research. Some researchers are saying we shouldn't be trimming are elms very much because it does tend to attract beetles to them and this the course there's anything really statistically available at the shows that really happens, but there is a theory about that course, it's the other side of the picture. Is it as long as that Deadwood is up in the freezer Could Be Beatles breeding in it, laying their eggs and hatching out of it. So if we get to Deadwood out, we're eliminating Beatles saying I guess that's the way we're looking at it at this point. We do have our remaining trees on a three-year trimming cycle. Where will be trimming a third of the city each year to get rid of the Deadwood. We've I would say now what you what's going to one of the problems now of trimming would be you could you're going to see if your turn alarms off now you're going to see a lot of sap floor at least water flow running out of those wounds. Terrible, but it doesn't really hurt the tree that much and again, this is the time of The Beatles are coming out and if there is anything to this theory of beetles being attracted to open wounds, that could be a problem. If you got a lot of big dad what I again, I guess I'd look at it. If you take it out. Now you're getting rid of The Beatles before they hatch but it was just a small amount of small inside. I guess I wouldn't worry about that until may be late in the state in the fall or in next Winter. Thank you very much for your call Saint Paul property owner. Who should I get in touch with and what sort of subsidy is available for me? Okay and Saint Paul when we identified diseased tree. We send the property owner and noticing that it is it is disease has been condemned by the city at that point. They either have the option of letting Taking it down themselves. If they don't want the city to come into the property, which is very rare or of having the city take it down with with contractors hired by the city and that particular case which is about 99% residential property and the city pays for the entire cost of tree removal request in St. Paul on residential property laughing a couple of trees on my property and By 5 they removed to ounce from the from the strip on front and when I'd like to know is is there anyway I can come and what they're likely to plant there so that I can plan what I will plan. Yes, or of planting plan is just about completely finalized now, so we would be able to tell you the best thing to do. I suppose we call our office at 822-2126 and ask them to find out for you. What kind of tree will be put on your block are you won't be able to get the answer right then because the all the the maps and so on are over City Planning Department who is helping us do this this whole new planting plan, but we can find out from them and then we can let you know what's going to go on there cuz we will have a tree already designated this going to go on the Boulevard C50 and we do have two lines open. So if you have a question about Dutch Phone are experts at 2 to 11550. Before we go to another guest. I've been handed a question hear from me. Shy person it must be who didn't want to phone in but I have a question on paper and it says ask the guests if there are any reports of fly-by-night operators approaching homeowners about removing Elms or replanting trees. Well, yeah, I'm sure there are we have heard of some companies coming in and telling people, you know, your tree is diseased. You better get it out before the city condemns it because they'll find you and all this sort of thing. But I think it will happen. We're going to find a company's coming into the area that really aren't companies. There is some guy that's got to pick up truck and a chainsaw and suddenly he's in the tree business. One thing that people in Minneapolis can do and Judy probably knows better by st. Paul but we do have what's known as a tree trimmers business license and they the people have to be licensed in order to do tree work in the sea. It doesn't necessarily mean they are there are good company or bad company in a Wii the license as giving out as a regular business license in what is a good businessman or not? We don't really know but what it does mean is that they have established themselves in the city and they do have adequate liability insurance. And that's one thing I think if people have to really watch for his be certain a company is insured because if they dropped the tree on Neighbor's house. It's your responsibility. If the company isn't insured you may end up having to pay the bill. So and that's an easy thing to find out insurance companies are always quite glad to send out a what they call a certification of insurance. It just says, yes, this company is insured in here are the limits so insurance is very important and say be sure their license that way, you know, at least that they are established year. They're not just running through town today and don't ever let anyone come on to the property and say, you know your create I can look at it. I know it's disease will take it down right now for so many dollars. If you got to come back next week. It's so much more that's kind of a rip-off racket. It does go on and it's not just in this area. I've seen this wherever I work before when Dutch oven gets bad, you got a lot of this kind of thing goes on in the same fashion. Yeah. We have the same tree trimmers license procedure in that type of thing and it's I think it's very similar in both cities. We haven't received a whole lot of Songs about people being ripped off. Basically we did have one call those it was a real doozy where I won poor woman had contractor talk her into removing 46 trees for cost of $17,900. And this was before the city and the city had gone out in his and her kind kind of nation season 2 of the trees. They were 8 in a piece. So it it does happen at the only one I've heard of but that was pretty spectacular. So people should watch me now and then take a look at the contractors that are approaching him one of those thing in it in Minneapolis. We aren't able to give a subsidy to a homeowner unless we have condemned the tree unless we do know that it went right through you so they should get a condemnation from us before doing anything. So I always contact the city first. Yes. more listeners standing by at 9 minutes before 11 a.m. Now good morning. Do you have a question about Dutch elm disease? We're not doing any research on it. There is research being done. There is also a systemic insecticide. I believe it's called Saigon. So you might want to check with the local Nursery Supply or someone like that one of your garden stores that it looks like that is doing some some work on that. The university does the extension office does have what's called a plant Disease Clinic, which should I you can call and I'm sorry. I don't know their number right now, but I think you could find it very easily you can talk about any kind type of tree or plant problems insects are diseases or whatever and they can you don't give you some good answers on it. But I think there is this Saigon is available and I supposedly is doing some some good on on bronze brick bronze Birch borer. Trees in town then could that do the work for me? Oh, yeah. I'm sure you can find some tree services or Nursery companies that could could do it. It's just an injection type thing to re-spray perhaps I've I haven't actually used it myself, but there are companies that could do it. I guess you'd again. I'd be sure of the company that I'm dealing with. Thank you for your thank you and good morning to you. Have a question about Dutch Elm. Can you tell me a Chinese? They aren't there perhaps more resistant. Let's put it that way Chinese Elms do get Dutch elm disease, but they are more resistant to the disease the biggest problem. I think we have a Chinese Elm. Is it is it really doesn't belong this far north is it tends to get an awful lot of dye back in the top of the tree up here at it winter kills quite badly. So it is a problem to US based. Mainly that way that it does breed an awful lot of beetles but chinese-owned can contract at your own disease and course of beetles do lay eggs in it without any any distinction between Chinese or American elm. So if we consider it, we don't care what kind of an element is. There aren't any that we know of growing around here, except a couple experimental trees we planted they are really highly immune to the ER at least highly resistant to disease the Chinese own messes up for although it's it's rarely does actually come down with disease many times it just Harbor is it the fungus toe fungus can be established in a tree it moves. What ways do the tree though that it's it's it's there for a number of years and it can become a source of contagion. So we considered chinese-american on whatever it's all in him. Thank you for your question next caller. Thank you for waiting. Good morning. You have a question about that show. I live in South Minneapolis and several summers ago. There was an 8 Block cruise where they had removed some trees and others were marked for removal and at that time they planted about 40 new trees or saplings, whatever along that a block rude and by that following November, I would say half of them had died because it was a dry summer and by the following spring two-thirds of those were dead. Why was wondering is once these trees are we planted a longest State Street who's responsibility. Is it to maintain them once they have implanted. We do have each year we have Around the Clock watering a tree's the thing we really try to encourage. So it's part of homeowners to it. It doesn't take much to play the garden hose out there and help water those trees. We did lose. A lot of trees didn't get to eat drink 76 because of the drought and we couldn't get out to all of them. They were also that year. We had tried some some newer type trees for instance Ironwood, which we tried using almost every one of those diet. Just we're having very difficult time transplanting. Maybe they wouldn't take the responsibility and I guess that's why the concern is what we're doing. We will be coming out with a new program again this this year that it's called adopt a tree and we're going to be going to go all kinds of groups to Boy Scouts Girl Scouts all who knows what the American Legion anybody we can get interested and we're going to be asking them to adopt. A particular tree in the city will give him a little certificate of adoption for that tree. It's kind of a gimmick thing. But the idea is that we will make people become aware of the fact. There are some trees standing out there that really need some help and it'll be a little bit of water goes a long way to help these things. Thank you for your question. What are you going for lack of love and water? No, not really the type of trees that are planted in St. Paul a little bit different than Minneapolis. We plant a balled and burlapped tree which has the dirt around the roots. And in a lot of cases is a bit easier to establish. What we do have is is the contractor to plant the trees are required to guarantee that tree for a year. So if in the first year that the trees and dies and you can only tell if it's the first year cuz it's staked and wrapped. The contractor does replace the tree with a new one which has been guaranteed for a year. So are we on the first year? We've got 100% survival rate in a very minimal one the following two and three years we do however, encourage people to water those trees during the summer months with you know, 12000 going in the spring we put in about 10,000 last fall. It's going to be a lot of trees out there that are going to need tender loving care for the for the first year or two while I get established time for one more quick question from a listener. Good morning. Do you have a question? I am interested when you can start planting replacement trees on your own private property. When is the earliest in Minnesota? Well, basically you can start planning cruises as soon as the ground thaws enough that it was soon as we get out of there real bad weather. I would say, oh normally by the middle of April, it's always pretty safe to go ahead and plant the tree. So I'd say you might want to get lined up right away. Thank you more if we have call or standing by my mouth got me in trouble. Everyone is dropped off now, so I'll have to come up with with a question here. And could I save me the biggest thing that they just helped at the homeowner right now or at any of the citizens in Minneapolis-Saint Paul, wherever you are the biggest thing you can do right now to help the program just take a look in your backyard look in your neighbor's backyard be nosy for us. We don't mind at all. Your neighbor may not particularly like it but look at on find any Elmwood NE downtown what you can find firewood limited of falling off during the winter or whatever. And if it's yours get rid of it, I'll get rid of it. Now before the Beatles come out if it's our neighbors or somebody you just you just have to see it somewhere given either the officers are called Minneapolis to st. Paul. Let us know where it is and will see to it that it's gotten out and all right. Somebody has one question for us and it's got to be quick but good morning around the air get the wood for firewood. What's the use in the biking that what when the next lot to us has a 5 to 10, please dying or dead standing still standing? Yeah. Well wherever it is Siri probably isn't to use scented except that call your city and tell him where those dead standing trees are they don't want to know about it and I'll see to it that those are gotten rid of also. Okay, at this point we're going to have to conclude our public affairs. Our thanks to Dave Devoto directory for the director of foster director of Forestry for the City of Minneapolis and Judy Barr coordinator for st. Paul's shade tree program is time is coming up on 11 a.m. I'd like to thank Tom meersman and Bill Connelly for preparing reports for this program. The engineer was Mike Moriarty and John Lambert answered phones for us this morning.