It shows how the economy in the region is changing and make some suggestions about what has to be done in the future to cope with this change. The report was compiled over a period of about a year by 27-member citizens committee chaired by Saint Paul attorney Wayne Olson and assisted by Bill blazer from the Citizens League staff was two gentlemen have joined us in the studio today. And after we chat a little bit about some of the major findings and conclusions of the report. We will invite your questions and comments on it as well.Gentleman, let me start out by asking when you started a year ago doing this report. What was it you hope to find? I'm not sure that we had any preconceived notion as to what it was. We wanted to find what we wanted to do and it's a it's a new Venture of sorts for the Citizens League because we were looking at a primarily private area of activity. Where is most of the Citizens League Studies have been on public agencies in public activities? This was is one of our first looks at a basically private activity and a broad General look at the whole economy of the Twin Cities area. What we wanted to do is to just try to get as much information as we could about the economy. Try to summarize it into usable form and try to determine whether there were in fact any a problem areas on the horizon that needed attention either by Private Industry or by public officials Winnelson. Would you can you put the Twin Cities economy in contact with the entire state of Minnesota? Well, obviously the economy of the Twin Cities is closely in a related with the economy of the state. The Twin Cities is really a service area for the entire State and the Upper Midwest a substantial area outside of Minnesota including parts of Iowa parts of Wisconsin North and South Dakota even into Western Montana. They generally the area that the Federal Reserve District is headquartered here serves and of course, we're a transportation center for even a substantially larger area with the headquarters of the Burlington Northern here with the barge terminals that are located here the barge traffic the airport serves as a transportation link for a substantial part of the Upper Midwest. how our economy is tied to this entire area the its health is tied to the health of the economy of the entire area and two largest and our existence as a metropolitan area depends on the entire Upper Midwest, which this metcon area serves there have been reports over the past few years and fact, I guess they put out fairly regularly by the Federal Reserve Bank that show that the health of the Upper Midwest is generally pretty good. Did you really surprised at all by what you found in the Twin Cities on that score we concur with that conclusion that Connie is basically healthy. In fact we seem to do somewhat better than the national average is has a hole we seem to do so much better than other pain areas in terms of unemployment. We generally have so much less unemployment than National averages. We tend to have slightly higher average incomes than the national averages we seem to have a better mix in our economy in terms of employment to than most metropolitan areas. We're not heavily dependent on one type of Industry so that the company be any given industry does not necessarily result in a major economic decline here. So that's the major reason that we do a little bit better than other areas. Yeah, I think that's right. What about the role of agriculture in the Twin Cities? He kind of meat is a bad crop your act and to some extent that's a balancing a fact because the good and bad bad agricultural yours. Do not necessarily coincide with the good and bad years of the rest of the economy. We may have economic good dips and other areas of the economy at the same time have a relatively prosperous and culturally kind of me on the other hand. We could have a a high colonic activity in other areas at a time when the agricultural economy is slow so that they in some cases tend to balance each other off and I think that contributes to why we tend to have a little lower Peaks and more Shadow Valley. economic Trends here What did you discover about the trend of the economy in this area? Well, the economy is changing as you might expect and as it has done since the twin city area began we started out really as a as a trade-in set her and then a processor of raw materials natural resources with the timber industry and the mailing industry. We move gradually into manufacturing economy. And in more recent years into high technology Manufacturing in the computer industry following World War II and in recent years, the fastest growing segment of the economy seems to be in the what's categorized as the service area or management area corporate headquarters general service Industries such as Healthcare. Architectural services financial services that surfing aren't those things title after closely to a strong on your facturing sector though. They are to a large extent and to the extent that those services are provided solely to people who live in this area. They depend to a great extent on the income that is produced by manufacturing concerns, but we found that a substantial part of these Services is now being exported and the export of services I think accounts for something like 19% of the total exports of the metropolitan area and it's a broad range of people who come here for example from other parts of the country for healthcare that amounts to an export of healthcare same is true of architect to Perform services for clients in other parts of the country while doing the work here that amounts to an export of architectural services and that's true of of a great many of the service Industries and it's growing is that true banking also there's a certain age and we do in this area provide a a service center for the banking industry's with the Federal Reserve Bank located here the headquarters of Bank holding companies close ties between the banking industry in the Twin Cities and the entire Upper Midwest Bob. Maybe I could give you one more recent example the over the weekend. It was announced at a local bank purchased a u a bank in Belgium, you know that creates an economic tie between the Twin Cities in Europe, which will result in additional resources. Probably coming into the Twin Cities dollars that we didn't have before. One hears charges from time to time that the business climate in Minnesota is not very good possibly because of strict environmental laws high taxes things like this. What evidence did you folks mind for that? I think we found some concern on the part of business and industry Leaders with regard to our business economy. Generally speaking. We were told that that this is basically a good place to do business for a number of reasons, but there is concern about uncertainty in the business climate concerned about the amount of time that you're required to go through the process of obtaining the permits that are required for environmental control. For example, there is concern about public statements made by public officials with regard to the economy a kind of a general feeling. I think that maybe to some extent is self generated by industry and contributed to by public officials and others who occasionally proposed changes in our tax structure changes in our regulation of business. So many times they are proposals that never Given serious consideration by the legislation for example, but still just the fact that the proposal is made create some concern among business. I think what we found was that most business people. Are looking for stability and predictability with regard to their operations supplies in the tax area and the environmental regulation land use regulation. They like to know. What they can expect in the future in those areas and not be concerned about a sudden shift and tax burdens. For example, I think there was more concerned about the The stability of our tax structure than about the tax rates, for example. I know that the report made some comments about the effect of public regulation and mistress and I'd like to get your personal reaction to something you presided over the milepost 7 Reserve application in the hearing examiner process because the examiner process grants a large amount of power to State agencies on elected officials who are not necessarily responsive. The way public officials are making decisions and restricting business more than public officials might do you like that needs to be changed? I don't know of any other way that that that process can be carried out. I think you you need to have public policy established by the legislature and by the state agencies through the adoption of regulations, which the legislature is authorised and then you need a process by which can be determined when an industry is complying with the regulations and when they're not obviously these individual decisions cannot be made by the legislature as a whole and they are the elected policy-making body. You need some structure under which the decisions can be made. I think the problem one of the problems in the reserve case was the length of time that it took to arrive at an answer. I think of that particular case, there's no question but that you can aumack effects was a major factor that was given detailed consideration throughout the process. The reserve case is one. Who are you recommended at milepost 7 be denied the agencies agree with you. There was a court test of that and that went back up to the Supreme Court that all of this taking an immense amount of time and costing a lot of money the same thing seems to be going out in the Central Electric Minnesota over a dispute over power line, one of the comments in your report suggests that cold needs to be developed as an alternative energy source and yet to this raises questions about where I should be mind whether they should be power lines and power plants put up and so on. I wonder how all this stuff gets balanced except does it have to all go through the courts. You could have core stopped short of going through the courts and limit the process to the administrative process in the administrative agencies. I don't know that anyone would Advocate that kind of system. Although that obviously is what happens in most routine environmental cases decision is made by the agency that is responsible. And that decision is then complied with and that's the end of the process with the complex environmental cases. I don't think there is any alternative to allowing a review by the cards unless some other procedure could be developed that but I I really don't see any way that the process can be speeded up a great deal. Unless you have the cooperation of both the agencies involved and the particular industry that's affected and the citizens who have concerns that the that they want taken into account. This is a serious and difficult administrative problem. And it is one that creates problems for the economy simply because of the absence of a final decision on a question of this kind and so I think the processes that are used need to be regularly reviewed to try to speed them up as much as possible and to arrive at a decision is the earliest you can be done. But our whole system of requiring environment impact statements, for example, before these decisions are made is a time-consuming operation. I think there are some ways that that can be speed it up. I think the the process can be shortened substantially, but it is important that before we make a commitment of our natural resources that a careful review is made of the environmental effects. And I know the reserve case is a perfect example of a of a mistake that was made in 1947 that might not have been made if we had the same processes in effect. Then as we now have of course, it's conceivable the same decision might have been received. It might have been reached at that time. Simply because some of these scientific information that's now available was not available in 1947. Will you talk about the in the report for the rest of the Twin Cities and the Region's economy changing from manufacturing to Services? What kinds of things need to be done to help the economy adapt to these changes to think? I think the major suggestion that that we have in our report is that we need a better system of analyzing economic Trends then we have at the present time and what we really ought to be doing is having a continuing program to gather the information about the economy that is available to identify the trends that are occurring. And to perhaps indicate what the alternatives are for Public Policy makers so that when a decision is made in the legislature or by a public agency or even by Private Industry, they all have the best possible information and we'll know as well as can be predicted what the consequences for the economy will be assuming they make a particular decision. I think if we could if we could do that, then we would be prepared to identify the the areas of need that are going to be forthcoming changes that might be necessary in our educational system for for example Changes in the tax structure to encourage certain types of industries that maybe in their infancy, but but Jim have good potential for growth and providing employment day in the area and the future and if that information is available, hopefully we can make better decisions and in deciding public policy isn't there already just a huge wealth of information available? Yeah. That's right. There. These are always being done in their charts and graphs figures and son on the I think the problem is that we don't have anyone on a continuing basis gathering this information and analyzing it and explaining to policymakers what the information means We have a great deal of information being collected and it shows Trends in employment and all the rest, but the question really is. What is that mean so far as what the legislature should do about taxes, for example for certain types of Industry. If we are growing in the in the services area and Manufacturing for example is growing so much. So obviously we can do some things with our tax structure that might affect those patterns of growth and we are changing the text structure regularly, but I think in many cases without trying to analyze what effect those changes are going to have on the trends in the economy. How about taking some questions for listening at this point, All right, put your headphones on though Wayne Olson and Bill blazer from the Citizens League are here and our topic is a new report to just issued this weekend on the state of the economy specifically in the Twin Cities area, but also as it affects other regions as well now in the Twin Cities area, if you have a question to give us a call at 2 9 1 1 2 2 2 and the rest of Minnesota, you can dial toll-free 800-652-9700 800 652-9700 toll-free anywhere within the state of Minnesota 29112 22 in Minneapolis-Saint Paul. I think we have a caller already on the line. Hello, you're on the air. My name is Jack or I live in Saint Paul and I have a 4 from 1964, but I live for 28 years in California before that. . Minneapolis is a boy. I am what I have to ask because on my return from California someone some juegos suggest the name of the Twin Cities is a split cities, which to me really? I love both Minneapolis. And st. Paul. I think they're wonderful, but we have an iron curtain here just as they have in Berlin, but we call it the Mississippi River. It's a psychological and curtain and diminishes and destroys and the damage has everything he konanykhin social that goes on in this area the newspapers operate in tooth to little private. Fiefdom Saint Paul paper stay on this side of the river out on this side of the Iron Curtain the Minneapolis play at paper stated on the other side and I feel strongly that the young people ought to get together and do something to destroy the Monopoly the newspaper exercising exploits. They are Prejudices Necessities not a question, but I would like to ask your what you think of my a problem. If you don't mind. I'll hang up and listen to the radio. Thanks for calling. There has been over the years competition between st. Paul and Minneapolis obviously and we have that extended now to competition between the two downtown or Central City areas and Suburban areas, and I'm not sure that's necessarily bad entirely. I think in the past there have been instances where it's been overdone, but there are a great many instances today of cooperation between the two cities Minneapolis-Saint Paul and among all of the emails Paradiso in the metropolitan area. We have moved with the Metropolitan Council to mourn more decision-making on a metropolitan level on issues that affect the entire metropolitan area. The Iron Curtain isn't that hard to get across I live in St. Paul and I have an office downtown Minneapolis. And I'm sure there are a lot of people who live in Minneapolis and work in St. Paul as well as the surrounding suburbs. Did you report come to any conclusions is two different kinds of Need for growth in St. Paul to Minneapolis weed. We did not get into the detail economic growth in the individual cities other than to talk with the economic development agencies in in both cities and in the suburbs as well, but we tried to limit our review to the neck pain area as a hole without regard to where economic activity might be taken place within the metropolitan area. You have any idea where economic activity tends to be stronger at this point? Well, I think there are strong and weak points in every segment of the metropolitan area. Obviously the Suburban areas have been growing most rapidly. We continue to lose population in both Saint Paul and Minneapolis, but efforts are being made in both cities to to keep the residents within those cities and to attract businesses to them to keep downtown businesses located in downtown. I guess I wouldn't be in a position to make an estimate of the of the relative economic health one area compared to another but efforts are being made and I think both Central cities are extremely important to the entire metropolitan area and the efforts that are being made to keep them economically. Viable are absolutely essential. Okay, we have another caller standing by. Hello. You're on the air of the Twin Cities as it develops actually in the past private business has done this and has responded to Opportunities and start a new business opportunities developed. We have an agency whether it be private or government seems to suggest that he's implying somebody should manage the economy to make it better rather rather than letting free-enterprise respond to the opportunities. It sees in fact it even seems to suggest that he might favor Statewide planning or Metropolitan y planning in the sense that the Humphrey Hawkinsville suggests management planning. Our suggestion does not extend to economic planning and even in the metropolitan area what we suggest is that those people both in Private Industry in some cases and those in public agencies who have the responsibility for making decisions on Public Power. Should have better information than they have available now. It is true that Private Industry recognizes economic opportunities and responds to them. All we are suggesting is that we ought to make available to both Private Industry and to public officials the best information that we can so that when they do respond they can respond in the most appropriate fashion. We do not even suggest that this program should result in any recommendations as to how the economy out to development. To develop. We think that should be left to the private decision-makers. With regard to public policy questions those are matters. That should be left with those who now have that responsibility, but we think they should be provided with the best available information so that they will know what effects their actions may have on the economy and all manner of reporting information available needs to be sure that more information needs to be generated. There is no great wealth of information available and it's not in a form that most public agencies individual legislators and individual small business man. I really be able to use and what we're suggesting is that this information that is available. Should be analyzed and put in a more usable form and to the extent that there may be gaps in the information that it may be that some additional information might be gathered white wine. If I could add many of the much of the information we collect today is classified on a system that was developed just at the end of the depression in the early 1940s when we were concerned mostly with the knowing about manufacturing businesses. Now there is information available on services, but it's not as well publicized. It doesn't receive as much attention and some of the classification systems may not be appropriate. So I guess we're suggesting here possibly a reworking of existing data. Let me ask you when to spend a bit more on the idea that there needs to be some or there could be some changes in our tax laws as a result of the change in Industry from management to service. What kinds of attacks changes might encourage the growth of service Industries. Well, let me just give an example. We have a number of Provisions in our corporate income tax laws. Now that are designed to encourage exporters. For example of by providing that the tax on materials are manufactured here but sold elsewhere will not be so high as to discourage people from manufacturing here and then shipping out of the state. I think we might look at the same kind of possibilities with regard to to the service Industries the one area of Of the taxes that we heard the most concern expressed by using individual income tax and we do have a relatively High individual income tax particularly in the middle and the middle brackets. I would say and we suggested perhaps the legislature should look at the tax rates to to determine whether any adjustment needs to be made we did get a number of concerns expressed that it's difficult for some Industries to to encourage their middle-level employees and top-level employees to transfer to Minnesota because they see the income tax rate. That's that we have And perhaps without looking at the entire tax structure of an event just looking at the income tax and only find it necessary in some cases to to add to the salaries for those and employees in order to encourage them to transfer here. We have not made a detailed study of the text picture in Minnesota and obviously each one of the any number of suggested changes that could be made that would require detailed analysis to determine what the effect any change would have on other taxes. Obviously if we're going to maintain the same level of tax revenue if you reduce 1 tax you have to raise another the other alternative is to reduce the total revenue at which may mean a reduction in public services. We do I think because we are a relatively High texts estate need to I make a careful analysis regularly of the public services that are being provided to be sure that we're getting our money's worth and the only justification for high taxes is that we are getting public services for them that make the high taxes worthwhile. Willie Nelson and Bill Blazer who worked on a Citizens League study of the Twin Cities area economy joined us and live in the studio this new one. We invite your participation in the interview. You can join us by calling 291-1222 in the Twin Cities area in the rest of Minnesota 800-652-9700 phone numbers again, 291 12:22 in Minneapolis-Saint Paul and surrounding area and the rest of the state 800-652-9700. You mentioned in in the report Inn in discussing taxes that at least a couple of the major areas of expenditure are education and highways now the education Bill last session was about 1.7 billion dollars of that about 1.2 billion went back directly to the local districts to help them pay for the cost of education and they'll keep property taxes done. Now, the education system is struggling with the problem of declining enrollments and their other problems there and I just wonder when you talk about trying to lower taxes, which of these kind of and me point out education in particular. I just wonder how you would cut that bill some Well again, let me emphasize that we have not made any specific recommendations as to whether taxes should be lowered or raised in various categories. What we have said it is that we need to recognize the effect that various taxes have on the economy and when we make a decision on tax policy, and we understand and that we are going to be making some changes in the economy possibly as a result of those decisions. It is very difficult, of course to to reduce taxes and maintain a high level of Public Services by 10 and I think we need to understand that both the educational system and highway system are extremely important to the maintenance guy Health in the area. We cannot expect that by reducing the educational effort that we can expect that. The economy is going to continue at the same pace and that without any adverse effects on the same is true with regard to Highway cost of the highway transportation system is an essential oil. Service to our economy and needs to be maintained. What we have to be certain about is that that we're not wasting tax dollars and either of those areas and it is true that damn. If you look at our expenditures compared to the National averages we are high in the educational and Highway expenditure areas in most other areas of Public Services. We are fairly close to the National averages in place where we had to spend more funds than the national average. He is on highways and education. Let me listen to her is on the line and good afternoon your on the year. I just want to come, after I make a pretty comment saying that I think we enjoy a quality of life. That is rival the most Nation but one question I have about to Stomp all over Splat teachers. And at this point we have postponed the problem my, is are we doing any ethical just Community postponing the problem if the budget can't tolerate, you know the increase or Prison number of teachers. Must we not hanging out make very drastic and Grand Pleasant decisions and not continue this. Otherwise, we do we're following the same course of New York City and other cities. If you comment on that. All right. Again, this is an area that is directly related to the economy of the Twin Cities, but it is one that we did not make a detailed study of there is an earlier Citizens League report on the general subject of declining enrollments that makes some recommendations and we discuss those recommendations here today, but I think the most that I could say is that we need to recognize the effect of tax rates on the economy. And we need to be certain that we are getting our money's worth not only in education, but in any every other area of Public Service What did you find are some of the reasons why business starts up here in the first place? What makes us an attractive area for people to do? Begin working in I think perhaps this relates back to the to the comment that the caller made at the beginning of his shift question with regard to the quality of life. I think. We heard that the quality of life in this area was a significant factor in an industry of business decisions. We heard that more often than any other single item. people Representatives who talked to our committee of business and industry almost invariably I said that the reason they were here or the reason they were expanding here or growing here was that this was a good place to do business a good place to raise a family a good place to live and this general term quality of life is it is a little hard to pin down but it covers everything about life in the Twin City area and does a to some extent depend on the level of our public expenditures because I suppose one of the most important considerations for for a businessman in deciding to locate the here is what kind of an educational system is available for his children. That's one of the principal concerns. They have obviously the basic public services that are provided from garbage collection to maintenance of streets and sewers that kind of thing are important the cultural activities that we have. Available recreational possibilities both within the metropolitan area and in the state and region as a whole are all important contributors to the high quality of life, and we do have a national reputation. I think as an area that has a high quality of life. It is perhaps the most important factor that we need to continually recognized in making policy with regard to our economy. We must maintain a high quality of life. We can do it only if we have a healthy economy because that's what provides the the wherewithal I many instances to maintain that quality of life. So it's there. They're really dependent on each other and if If we can maintain a high quality of life, we can expect our economy to remain healthy and if we have a healthy economy will have the ability to maintain the high quality of life that we want. We have another listener standing by with a question for you. Go ahead. You're on the air. I said that isn't that hard to get across the river. I want to disagree with you because When a president of a large corporation business our area that kind of played a business site for a desirable business here one of the things he looks at his newspapers, but it's been my experience all the general tenor of the news in the Minneapolis paper is linked to the liberal side in the end. The opposite is true of the Saint Paul paper. Now, we have them divided up and then I beg to disagree with you when you say it isn't that hard to cross the river it is very hard to cross the river. In a psychological Manor there is a psychological barrier between citizens of one one community in the other where if we had other streets and Iraq news routes that all over the neighborhood Chicago covered by two papers instead of one it would reflect in my opinion a lot more mature. And after all it is really only one city it have to be an idiot to call is placed through cities and the name I suggested to split cities should be taking the heart and people should think about that I think and I think people like yourself are are doing a great disservice. Do you did exist among the car people to get across to people with their latent divisions? Happy brought out in the open for out and sir. I think that I think that to the comments that you making my better be responded to by the Publishers of the newspapers. So I think that I don't I don't want to minimize the the problem and I I think I agreed with you that there is some rivalry to the extent that you can have a healthy rivalry among the communities in the metropolitan area. I don't have ejected that and I think in some cases of the the Rivalry that we see exhibited. Is undesirable in it ought to be eliminated, but I happen to live in an area that's fairly close to the to the Minneapolis boundary which doesn't really bother me. But we have a substantial number of people in that area who read the Minneapolis newspaper. I think it may be that the that there could be a broader distribution of the newspapers throughout the metropolitan area. But generally I suppose people tend to subscribe to a newspaper that covers the the local news in their area that they are interested in and to that extent to their more inclined to read the newspaper. That's put out in in their own City there is Obviously a continuing effort by both newspapers to cover events in in the other city, but I don't think we're ever going to eliminate the Rivalry entirely, but I I agree with you that it does not to be minimized and the two cities need to work together. There was a listener who called in the with a question currently didn't want to go on the air and and says that to notes didn't report you say that the Twin Cities moving away from manufacturing to service industry on The Listener wonders if it might not be unhealthy for the cities to be losing total production. If that be the case, in fact, I let me just clarify the point in in the report a little bit. We do not to say that we're moving away from manufacturing. What we say really is that the service Industries are growing faster than manufacturing the expectation is that the total employment in manufacturing will continue to increase in the metropolitan area, but at a relatively slower rate than the rate of increase in the service Industries. I think to the extent that that the service industries that are here are financed locally and provide service is only for people who live here then the rest you may have a valid point that to to a large extent the health of our economy depends on how much we can produce here that we explored elsewhere. I would send brings in new dollars to this area. But we do need to I think recognize that more and more the service Industries are exporters as well as companies that provide service for people who live here as a I believe I mentioned approximately 19% of the exports of the area were in the service industry area in one recent dear and that'll probably continue to grow we oh we do not Suggested that we do not need to be concerned about manufacturing. We do and Manufacturing is and will continue to be an important segment of the economy and perhaps will continue to be the major exporter of the economy. So we need to maintain a healthy manufacturing industry as well as says service in the shape next to a questionnaire is on the line, but afternoon you're on the air. Hello. Lost him. Okay. Well our guests are waiting Olsen chairman of a Citizens League committee that did a report on the effects of it out of the status of the Twin Cities economy and Bill Blazer staff person from the legal assisted in drafting the report. They are in our Studios live and we have about to 10 11 minutes left and which to talk about the report. We invite your participation in the interview in the Twin Cities area 291 12:22, and then the rest of the state 800-652-9700. One of the points you make in the report is that lost a lot of the industry that has grown up here has been started locally. Do you think that's a fairly significant random one that will continue over the years it is certainly a significant fact and it's true in most metropolitan areas. I think but perhaps more so here than in some other areas. somewhere around eighty-five to ninety percent of the gross and our economy comes from within the area industries that are already here at 4 started here or new companies that are organized here and we have been fortunate in this area to have a great many local entrepreneurs who decided to start a new business and fortunately were successful businesses grew and the company's continued to headquarter here, even though many of them have opened a branch offices and plants and other parts of the country in the world, but do they have provided the major part of the growth and one of our suggestions is that when we talk about Economic Development activities that we should not concentrate just on trying to lure some business from another part of the country to move into the Twin Cities, but should devote more attention to the industries that are already here understanding the problems that they have and ensuring that we have a business climate that permits them to expand and grow and increase their employment in these areas and and particularly. I think we need to pay attention to the the needs of the new businesses. Someone who wishes to start up a business here. We want to be certain that he has an opportunity to succeed and to expand I think just one quick Edition be a lot of these companies that started here and have grown here will be changing the kind of work that they do they'll be changing their product line You'll find some moving from producing a thing for example a computer to producing a service for example, a computer program or a piece of software is they call it and I think that you know, one of the things that committee saw was that that as we move as those companies moving to that kind of production that there might be some things that they can be done as a part of our Economic Development efforts to to facilitate changes by up by local company so that they will stay here and and expand here as they change their products. Okay, Bill. We have a listener question on the line. Good afternoon running are good afternoon. And thank you. I'm glad to hear there's a great deal of concern and for attracting new business and maintaining climate trailer on continuing education, but is there to equal concern for intelligent limited growth? My comment is based upon the fact that the reason I really enjoy a good climate change quality of life as and as I'm big with that turn music we have a very manageable limit population when you encourage, you know, the unintelligent influx of business this brings in more people and far for a more strength when I services and you would incur same problems in New York City or other than as I mentioned earlier, and I just concerned that that we pursue the increase of A business but an intelligent fashion and had a very slow fashion hat is this point being focused and brought up properly valid point that that needs to be kept in mind always said obviously, we're not suggesting uncontrolled and undesirable growth, but I think we do have to recognize that our population in the metropolitan area is continuing to grow we do want to to the extent that we can provide a desirable employment for those people who either are raised here and wish to stay here or those who I wish to move into the area. I think this is one of the perhaps the desirable aspects of the growth in the in the service Industries. The type of employment that they provide is generally desirable type. Generally. These are what you might call a non polluting Industries and is perhaps the type of growth that we we might want to encourage and there are others that have in manufacturing as well as in the service area that can provide desirable employment for people who wish to live in this area. We have another listener standing by with a question. Good afternoon. Your only are they come in the Twin Cities area. You find that human nature to study how how your analysis how you did your nails? And I was wondering what do you how do you attribute the increase in manufacturing? Just outside the metropolitan area in the same. Of time and ours also add a third point there that I wanted to ask about and that is how can I get in touch with the Citizens League? Alright Bill. Why don't we take the the last one first? How did you get in touch with decision to you want to give the address and phone number of the league has its offices in The Syndicate building which is at the corner of 6th and Marquette Downtown Minneapolis are phone numbers 338-0791. And if you'd like a copy of the report just call that number and we'll get one till you let me just make a brief comment on your first point the the process that this isn't really good uses yen in studying questions of this kind as soon as big as a non-profit private organization open to anyone who wishes to join pay the membership dues and each year studies of 428 separate. Areas of concern to the metropolitan area and any member of The League who is interested in that particular subject is given the opportunity to become a member of the study committee and we do not claim to be experts on the particular areas that we are studying but rather we we meet as a committee perhaps we we met for example about once a week from May of 76 until June of this year and heard from as many experts in the area as we could doing that. Industry leaders Union people Educators Economist people's from people from the financial institutions and so on and then we try to analyze that information and summarize it and reached some conclusions. And those are then submitted to the board of the league has a draft of our report and if it is approved the report is released. I didn't understand exactly what your question was with regard to manufacturing outside the Twin City area. I think that it does move on to another color that last channel in this is dropped off and we have time for one more quick question. Go ahead. Please around the air. Yes. I had a question about the what they see for overall grip growth rate in the area of the percentage growth rates. Are they going to decline over friends into comparison? The last 10-15 years is over the next 10 or 15 years and how are these related to what they see for population growth in the Twin Cities and the effects of more stringent Environmental. I told and the concern. What's a good week going to be in an in terms of those two factors? I think it's difficult to predict what the growth rate will will be perhaps bill can give you some of the details on what projections to have been made by by other groups. I think it did. It is clear that the growth rate in manufacturing is is going to be somewhat slower than it has been in the past and the gross in the service area. I will probably continue to be at a relatively higher rate bility have some statistics on on the overall growth rate just quickly. Projections are are not not the not abandon a bound but the 1970 the total earnings for the region in personal income was about 6.4 billion dollars. It's projected going to 1990 that will get up to about 14 billion dollars. So just about double in the next 20 years the previous 20 years. We we grew slightly faster rate. So you going to see you a slowing of the rate of growth and it seems to To be comfortable with the the slowdown in the in the growth and total population of the region. Gentlemen, we have run out of time. They always always go quickly on these kinds of programs want to thank you both very much for coming in. Thank you. Bob Wayne Olson who chaired the citizen sleep committee study on the Twin Cities economy and Bill Blazer the Citizens League staff member who assisted that committee?