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On this regional public affairs program, MPR legislative reporter Debbie Gage introduces an example of the Minnesota legislature and how they function. The debate on this program is on the Ban the Can bill, which deals with container deposit and litter.

Program includes several state senators, including William Luther, DFL-Minneapolis; George Pillsbury, I-R-Wayzata; and appearances by a host of others.

You might want to have a pencil and paper handy so you can take notes and keep track of the various amendments and arguments offered.

Read the Text Transcription of the Audio.

Family can has been around the legislature for at least six years. It's also been more heavily lobbied against than any other bill. Then it on their bill Luther things lobbyists have spent around $250,000 against at the session. They argue that the bill will cost jobs and they're well aware of how effective they are legislators will always listen to economic arguments this year. The fate of the bill rested on the following Senate debate. Lavia said, they would support an anti litter bill with band the cannon died Governor perpich said he wanted both and Luther tied the two together in the vain. Hope that banned the can would pass it died. But the Senate debated it for 3 and 1/2 hours beginning at about 9:30 One Night. Senator Collin Peterson attached an amendment to build County recycling centers. The Senate discussed putting a mandatory deposit on daily newspapers hand one Senator said the whole issue raised a lot of blue herons here is the debate.Mandatory deposit on all beer and soft drink beverages in the state of Minnesota. Section one is definitional. The bill applies to Containers used for malt drink such as beer and carbonated soft drinks, but would not affect containers used for non carbonated soft drinks such as iced tea fruit juices and liquid malts. Moving on to section 2 of the bill subdivision one requires all filled beverage containers sold at retail in Minnesota to have a refund value of not less than $0.10 after June 30th of 1978. Subdivision 2 requires a retailer to pay a customer the refund value and requires a distributor or bottler to pay the retailer the specified refund value for each empty beverage or bottler free champion beverage container subdivision, three exams retailers Distributors and Ballers from this requirement if the empty beverage container does not display a refund value. Section 3 of the bill requires all beverage containers sold in Minnesota after June 30th of 1978 to permanently display the name of our state and the refund value of the container section for specifies that a violation of law is a misdemeanor. And section 5 is the effective date. The supporters of Senate file one are many and I'd like to take this opportunity to just read a brief list of the supporters of this bill to you the national Commission on supplies and shortages the US EPA the president's advisory Council on Environmental Quality us Conference of Mayors League of cities National Association of counties National Wildlife Federation environmental action Inc, environmental defense fund Crusade for a cleaner environment Plaid Pantry stores of Oregon, dr. Pepper Royal Crown Bottling Company of Corpus Christi Brewery and soft drink Workers Union Local 1164. The League of Women Voters Izaak, Walton League Sierra Club Friends of the earth Congressman Richard Nolan a Donald Fraser who are co-sponsors of national mandatory deposit legislation, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, the Minnesota Energy agency the, Minnesota. Pollution Control agency, the Minnesota public interest research group Minnesota conservation Federation the Minnesota canoe Association citizens against throwaways metroclean are committee Mecca Audubon chapter of Minneapolis, clean air clean water joint religious legislative Coalition, the Minnesota Farmers Union, the Minnesota democratic-farmer-labor party and the governor of this state. A mandatory deposit bill was first enacted in the United States in Oregon in 1972 Vermont followed shortly thereafter and 1973. And this last fall referenda in the States of Maine and Michigan approved mandatory deposit laws. According to former Governor Tom McCall, it's a rip-roaring success in Oregon. It said to be the most popular bill in the history of the state with the most recent polls showing 91% of the state's population supporting the bill. Some people ask why beverage containers why single out this particular industry first, they comprise nearly 50% of all cans and bottles and second. We have an alternative that works the returnable alternative. We are today subsidizing the throwaway industry in this country. We have about twenty one people in here. I'm going to do it. We need more. This is an important. Just aren't enough people in their Sergeant at Arms. Can you? They know all the arguments. Eye Center Luther What's the present members of the Senate we are today subsidizing the throwaway container industry with energy and raw material costs and job in business losses president. The center is making a very eloquent speech and we don't have a quorum here. This is a bill that's been lobbied and talked about for years to years. We have to have enough people Senators interested to listen. Sergeant at Arms bring them in even buying that we have 15 out on conference committees, but best ramen gender preference point of information I to appreciate the traffic and eloquent speech that we're hearing but I don't think what Senator Luther is saying or what anybody else me say this evening is going to change one vote one iota and I think that if you're interested in dispensing the time we could almost vote right now and save everybody an awful lot of Confusion And also probably give us a little sleep later on her first, you know, Senator Luther, mr. President the lobbyists have had their chance outside and I'd like to have mine inside and you'll get it. But we should have sent her. Aeschbach is right there. If we have to send the majority leader in we might but that's putting that if they won't come in. proceed president between 1963 and 1974 out-of-state Brewers realized the 365% increase in sales in Minnesota Minnesota production grew modestly until 73 when it plummeted for a net loss of 9% This was possible only because the national ship their product long distance in a one-way container into Minnesota leaving the cost of pickup and Disposal to Minnesota taxpayers. Same is true in the soft drink industry in 1950. There were 134 soft drink bottlers in Minnesota today. There are 55 or less wealth per-capita consumption has tripled the state planning agency in the governor's Council of economic advisers have predicted a net gain of jobs under a deposit system in the hundreds. That's the best evidence we have today regardless of what information will be presented by the opponents of this legislation. And finally, I think we should look at what the people of our state wine after all. Those are the people that we're representing here in the Senate not necessarily the people that we've been hearing from in the corridors of this capital in the last few weeks. And every pole whether I Minnesota poll Metropol or any poll, I've seen conducted by legislators minnesotans overwhelmingly want a return to the returnable system. Mr. President I know that there are amendments that will be offered. I believe that they will be offered by some of the members that are not present at the present time in conference committee. Well, it's kind of hard for him to offer him down there right on there. I better be getting up here now discussion on the bill third reading. Oh, I'll keep it discussion going to an amendment that isn't he offered yet. And I would like to I would like to see Senator Peterson here so he could offer is amendment. So I am turned going to mend it. I don't know. Where is Hunter Peterson is, but I I just was looking for him. I would like to say that it's a conference committee. That when I entered the world of business we were just outlawing the returnable flower bag. We used to pack flour and cotton bags and send them to a bakery. They would send them back to us and we'd refill them and time and time again, but for some unknown reason the state and the federal government decide that was rather a unclean and dirty habit. And now I'm here. We are the full circle back throwing out the non-refillable container and moving towards the return of a container. What is Senator Peterson shown up? He hasn't Benedict you have Amendment this present. I want to speak on that Amendment if I could I'm just concerned is a lot of the members is going to change the discussion for the same. Mr. President is going to bring Okay, this President I could continued that's the thing. I'd like to stay. It's going to be very very confusing this evening. If we continue to pursue this discussion right now, and I'm wondering if we should just wait or whatever until the time comes we can have the Amendments offered. We're to spend this time speaking things. It might not even be in the final discussion at all. I'm just wondering in terms of breath Center Luther's comments to that if we could just take him for absent for Sesser 15 minutes or whatever. I think we're going to discussions that we really don't have for this evening. Well, I think we better wrap scare up the majority leader and will. You know, I got it. Usually I got something to work with Here Comes. Mr. President or laufenburger. We can talk about it. The secretary will read that there is nobody was offering anything just kind of their necklace Coleman with we're reaching now, there's some Senators Miss president the ones that are not in the conference committee that I could see I've spoken kindly and harshly to and there you got a quorum is it said you were in a dialogue that we have a little discussion. I got their answer my question. So I would like to offer the amendment. Sirloin burger most men Senate file one as follows page two line 6 Strike 10 and insert 25 page two line 12 strike 90 and insert a T Center laufenburger Amendment. Mr. President. If we are going to have a deposit on beverage containers, let's make it worthwhile. Let's make the people real return the beverage container to the dealer and buy this amendment. They will be paying $0.25 per container and the dealer then we'll be allowed to retain $0.05 of that $0.25 for his handling of the product itself know if we really want to clean up the state. There's an excellent way to do it. Now you're going in by 48 bottles or 48 cans of something and pay $0.25 extra. Can I think every can and every bottle will certainly be returned and we certainly will have a clean stay. And it's going to allow that merchants $0.05 on each can poor handling it. So if we really want to get the stuff and clean up our environment clean up our Countryside will have kids out there in the ditches picking up these bottles and cans and we will have one of the cleanest states in the nation. So I would like to urge of Maya member to $0.25 a can be adopted and then allow the merchant $0.05 a can for his handling. Mr. President members of the body. I understand what Center laufenburger is trying to do, but I think I really he has his intentions aren't the best and offering this amendment. There's there's no evidence to indicate. Mr. President that that a deposit greater than the $0.10 deposit is is necessary. In fact, the only reason that it says highest temperature can sense is that that way it will conform to the deposit that's normally required today on a on a returnable bottle. And so that's why the $0.10 is in the bill and if we were going to require $0.25 instead of $0.10 would be causing just an unnecessary burden on the consumers of our state that you return rates and Vermont in Oregon are extremely high with the $0.10 deposit. And so I would urge that the a members of the Senate to feed this amendment. I'll Senator Pillsbury then senators from Mr. President I would like to just second what Synod Lutheran said. I was just recently been in Vermont where the deposit is only $0.05. They have recycling centers and there seems to be quite an adequate incentive at just a nickel to pick up the cans and get them back roll calls been requested Senator Benedict and then determine with the center lock murder you I guess the second question would be do you have any any information that the 5-cent deposit in Vermont or the $0.10 deposit in Oregon is not working and not guaranteeing that the weekends been returned history present members of Senate. I don't have it right at my fingertips, but I think I could find it. All right, he's sent me on the roll call has been requested on the laufenburger amendment Center Lutherville. Mr. President will Center laufenburger yield happy to start locking Burger. Do you know what the comparative prices were on a six pack of beer prior to the Oregon law on all you said it was 10 years ago Center Luther Wright. I don't know what they were then. Rentmaster present I don't know what they were 10 years ago. If they've increased along with other costs. I imagine maybe you could bought a six-pack 10 years ago out there for about a buck. I don't know Center Haley, I guess. Mr. President Center laufenburger. You've mentioned the difference in the beer prices between Washington and Oregon. Do you have any figures on the soft drink prices? Center laufenburger, mr. President. I don't have any prices of the soft drinks, but I presume they have gone up accordingly president. Thanks Center. Laufenburger might be interested in knowing that in a survey conducted from my office in March of this year 24 16oz returnables. The wholesale price in Oregon was $4.45 and in Washington, it was $4.50. So I think that the center laufenburger might be interested in that information because we shouldn't I don't think I'm trying to prove a point here pick out some selective information and naturally assumed that it proves our point. I would urge to feed of this amendment any further discussion on the laufenburger amendment to roll call has been requested. The secretary will take the role. all senators having voted Who desire to vote? the secretary well close the Rock. Center Lewis are you oh, you're up there right now, Senator Strom. They're being sick of senators around books either being sick size and 34 days. The amendment does not prevail. Senator Peterson for president I have an amendment of the desk. What does is first of all it requires that the County's by the March 1st of 1979 come up with a comprehensive Solid Waste plan by county. What a guy's does it takes. In my amended I do not allow B beverage containers are non-refillable beverage containers to be returned to either the rate retailer or the distributor. They must go to a local recycling centers and when they go into the retail outlet and buy these a non-refillable can containers they paid $0.10 for him. They remember this deposit to the county auditor on his forearm that would be similar to a sales tax form monthly the County Auditors through their development this a comprehensive ass always plan will look at existing recycling centers if there are any and we'll determine the place has it within their County where they should have recycling centers. The consumers would then have to take the non-refillable containers and return them to the recycling center. They couldn't take him any other place and they would get a chance back. What happens in you sexually is at the recycling centers have two cents to get them off the ground. We've tried Minnesota to get recycling started on a Statewide basis and we haven't been very successful. However, there's some areas of the state that have done a fantastic job, and they've got a profitable recycling system working. Do I feel that the if we give them this $0.02 to get them off the ground they can start bringing paper and other cans and other recyclable materials into that Center and after a while they're going to have enough stuff forced into that Center to make it a profitable operation. And eventually we probably could do away with that $0.02 differential because if he might making money on their own that's been proved and other places now if we set up a plan like this, we're going to run into a couple of problems up in my area. If you buy it from the folks that we get a lot of visitors in the summer time and if the folks by their beverage beverages in the Twin Cities and drive up to our country during come up there and we're probably going to end up with more beverage containers and Detroit Lakes for example, and we're going to have beverage containers sold. So what we're going to do is have those counties that have excess funds last leftover. We met those funds to the commissioner of Revenue and then once a year, they would redistribute to the counties that are short. So we're at we're taking care of that problem at the present point of order. Mr. President. I've had an amendment passed out and I just want to point out to the members that that is not the amendment that Senator Peterson is referring to as I understand it he has a man has not been passed out all of the members and I just want to clarify that yours is a yours it be what they call us anti-litter. And your Senator Peterson sets up a whole public mechanism right for what purpose? Do you know when the clarification a Time wondering which amendment do we have on our desks? I'm reading essay. 15081 is what's that one beginning page one line. So I think the one on your desk is Senator Luther's the anti litter Amendment. What do you have? You don't have it on your desk? The bill of Senator. Peterson's is to manage. What it says I'm in the title that says require in each County to adopt a comprehensive Solid Waste Management plan authorizing County to license recycling is present or are we going to have this amendment before us? I don't know what this present could I know it seems to me that we're dealing with a whole new concept under this amendment and I don't even know if it's Jermaine and I'd like to have the members the body have a copy of that amendment is that the amendment that I was looking at here, you know, we cover Motor Vehicles we cover water crafts. Yeah, there be a question a German Mister president, is almost a diversionary tactic is there is a Peterson amendment being distributed Center Peterson Waters present know we we we we could have them distributed. Senator Trump is President. I have a copy of the amendment on my desk. Who else has a copy of this amendment on their desk Senator Nelson Has Senator Pillsbury? Center Pillsbury Mr. President heard a lot of arguments heard a lot of arguments. We've heard many times before. 2 years ago some of us asked industry and labor to come up with some sensible proposal for dealing with the matter of waste. They have done nothing except come up with a very difficult acts but I'm we're talking now about a bill that doesn't really ask anybody to do anything for two and a half years and yet we have screams that the County's haven't been consulted industry hasn't been consulted. Really. We did have a lot of gentlemen gripe against tenant file. Number one. We were asking the Retailer's to suddenly become collectors. We were asking a very efficient distribution system to become a very inefficient collection system. Senator Peterson has answered that complain by following the example of states that have successfully set up these recycling centers specifically Vermont, which I visited with in the last month and don't know how he's doing it for $0.05 and they're not discounting that $0.05 1iota and if there's anything wrong with Senator Peterson's I'm in a minute. It's the fact that he's continuing the discount of 20% and therefore penalizing the people who do manufacturer and who do like a non-refillable containers. I will offer them amendments to the amendment of Senator Peterson's nothing more. On page 3 line 18 strike quote 80% of in other words to eliminate any discount so that the recent cycling centers will offer the consumer exactly what he or she paid for the kind and you ask for where is the money coming from to pay for all of this all of us know that not all the Unruh fillable containers will be a return for refund many of them will go outside of the state of Minnesota. How many of them are going to where I waste cans and before we know it the commissioner of Revenue will have funds well in excess of his demands that he is receiving from the County's for their claims on the Returns of the unrevealable containers secretary have the amendment. Yes, I'd like to try should have the required sex comedy secretary report the amendment the Pillsbury Amendment to the Peterson Amendment on the Pillsbury Amendment. Senator Peters was president. members of the Senate I realize that Senator Pillsbury is honestly addressing a concern that he has but I really feel that this goes to the very heart is my philosophical problem and I guess he's giving me a chance to get out of my soapbox one more time and maybe I can explain more clearly than I did the last time why I think the 80% provision is so important to my Amendment, you know, it seems in our society that that we we, all kinds of problems and and we seem to kind of bail people out all the time, you know, and then then shove it on to the people at that maybe have the least resistance or the fewest voices and I really think it's important that we bring the consumer end of this because it seems to me that it's a consumer who has demanded the convenience package. Who's the who's it's because they like this convenience package that we have so many cans of 79 refillable containers on the market. It also seems to me that's the same folks that are buying those same non-refillable containers that are going along the roads and throwing them out and leering our dishes and cleaning up our Countryside. So it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that those folks that are doing this should be penalized. To make them aware of what they're doing rather not to take them off the hook one more time like we seem to do is so many pieces of consumer and environmental legislation and that's why I pulled this amendment because I think if they have to pay $0.02 and if they have to drive to a recycling center when there's going to be signs up and there's they're going to be encouraging this whole time does hole Solid Waste problem. Then we're going to do a lot more the control litter and solid waste Minnesota then by taking off the hook one more time. I withdraw my amendment to save time and Goodra not going to get it unless that's that's really kind of you Senator Pillsbury cinnamon on the Peterson Amendment president Center Peterson, you know of his present. Yes. He will you send her Peterson that was brought out here that the County's me wake up tomorrow morning and find out that they're Very deeply involved of my question is a Jew count. Call your county board. Senator Peterson present senators from my County board and some of the folks in my County have been struggling with issues and some of the ideas that I got came from some of the deliberations made by that County Board of some of the folks in my County they in fact, I've got a Statewide marketing plan, which I have a copy of in my office that would help us establish recycling centers that we just haven't been able to get any money from anybody to get him set up. Senator Strom and then Senator Luther now Senator sucharski president just a few comments on the bill on the first of all, I know what I sent her. Lowe's I was going to say this is a very friendly Amendment, you know, why because of me getting one additional vote maybe to you say it's a friendly Amanda and I'll accept it he'll do anything when I say file number one. I don't know how anybody gets ended file number one, but he can tell you how it got sent to phone number one product a very good point when he said and asked Senator Howard oats and the county was all set to go. I supported them in committee. I wanted it out because I believe that's the way to go and we have like I bring it up again with they have 30 million for the sick out. But it didn't they have 2 million to help recycling in the counties that we're all set to go. Now they're causing a recycling in this bill or what kind of recycling. They're talkin of the kind of stuff that they can make money on believe me. If this was such a profitable Venture you'd have to keep him away with clubs. You couldn't the PCA couldn't handle the applications. Why do they want they want aluminum they want they want to lead. Who won the brick and mortar is a broken or the throw away diapers who won some not these recycling centers being cans and all the other junk and all the other Plastics and all the plastic wrappings and all that stuff pick up. I don't want the recycling center should be subsidized by the two cents on the camera to make money. Somebody said they're going to make money that they don't even need the two cents. Well, if that's the case then the county that made the plans and ask for $2000000 somebody is wrong again, and I wonder who it is. All right. I think okay Senator Luther could you tie it up and then we'll vote on it and I consider this a friendly Amendment considered a friendly Amendment and so I would urge the support of the members and I would ask for a roll call on the Amendments roll calls been requested. The secretary will take the role on the Peterson Amendment. Senate sonder call the secretary will close the role. Luis Valdez I They're being 34 eyes and 25 days. The amendment is adopted as strong as to be returned to the local government committee that this refer to local government Senator ueland j-roll call Center Duluth Richard President. We have to take a lot of time just briefly. I want to oppose the motion. I think we know where senators from stands on the bill by now, but one of the big problems with the bill such as the one here, is it the more Hoops you can send a bill like this through the better chance the opponent's the bill have of defeating the bill and I think the people of the state of Minnesota would like this body to vote on NFL tonight. And so I would urge the defeated the motion motion. All Senators having voted who to desire to vote. The secretary will close the role. There was 11 eyes and 47 days. The motion does not Prevail Senator Stokowski. Miss president. I have an amendment at the desk, please secretary will report this to Kowski Amendment. Mystery skulls Camuto men's Senate file one as follows on page 1 line 21 after container is it will be able to understand that I have a few extra copies. I didn't want to distribute 1 to remember to send it. But because it's so simple everyone will be able to understand the amount of all the disposal papers by far the largest component. In fact that it composes a majority of the voice of solid waste disposal problem. I know that there is one product that compose a large portion of that but to quote from spokesman of that industry as to how they feel about Amanda's Tori deposit Bill. I'm going to quote from the Minneapolis Tribune as of Sunday April 3rd in an article on your desk that was distributed by Senator Luther and in this editorial they State the case for mandatory for the mandatory deposit bill. I've been made awesome. State and federal environmental and energy experts and now President Carter want a mandatory deposit laws to help clean up the environment and conserve energy and natural resources and Soda Weed and so went with that kind of an attitude by the Minneapolis Tribune and the newspaper industry. I've offered this amendment and what does a mammoth does is extends to the Daily newspapers the same opportunity to have a mandatory deposit on their product that will be delivered to the people of the state of Minnesota. Just think of those possibilities instead of those tracks dead heading back to the newspaper plant empty empty tracks. No employment. We can have we can recycle this renewable resource will never be a newsprint shortage in the United States again, if this amendment to pass and they can be a Pathfinder and showing the rest of Industry as to how they should date. Disposal waste and I'm going to offer that mr. Chairman. I'm going to move my Amendment at this point should have passed it around its present interesting reading send her a present. I just remember to frivolous now. It says I would have thought of that. Senator stachowski, you made a mistake not circuit. I because it's good reading now on that you wanted. roll call this is an amendment refund on this all those are the sexual take control on the client Sakowski Amendment standing or voice would be find the house key and men with all those in favour will signify by saying hi. Pause no. motion prevail How long was in favor plays rides? Let's start counting. All right. There's no really supposed to be any lobbying during. And what made wetness in considerable indecision out there? We're trying to count all those opposed please rise. 21 hours and 28 days the amendment does not prevail. Further to Senator Luther present. I have an amendment at the desk in order to provide a little more comprehensive approach to place a litter license fee on those Industries other than the beverage container industry in order to pay for some of the costs of litter pick up pay for some of our recycling efforts and to pay for some litter education in the state of Minnesota. Just briefly the first few sections just deal with the Minnesota Environmental Education for it and make some technical changes moving on page 3 section 9 their definitions. And again, this is all very very similar to the definitions contained in Center to Willits water bill. Moving through the bill you'll see that there are penalties for littering in the state of Minnesota. There are requirements that vehicles in the state of Minnesota and watercraft in the state of Minnesota contain litter bags in order to avoid unnecessary lettering of our parks in our lands highways and streams in Minnesota as you go on through the bill, you'll see the same nearly the same Provisions that are contained in Center to Willits litter bill. It provides that there will be a license fee a letter license fee on Industries in the state of Minnesota. It provides that the Department of Transportation will conduct the survey that they'll have that completed by this November that survey will identify the products that constitute letter in Minnesota the department will then promulgate rules classifying the products that that comprise litter in Minnesota and then a tax will be in But unlike the taxa and Center to Willits litter bill. This packs will be imposed next July 1st rather than the beginning of the year on January 1st. Thereby giving this legislature the additional time to review the rules that have been promulgated by our Department of Transportation. You'll then see on the last couple of pages Pages 10 and 11 Appropriations contain for litter education in Minnesota grants for recycling resource conservation. And these are all Appropriations that have been approved by our finance committee in the Senate. And so missed your present. I'll be glad to stand for any questions. I know that Senator will it would be glad to stand for any questions, but I would move this amendment at this time. Mr. President it seems like the last legislative session. Back in 1976, which I think many senators remember very vividly. We came in here the last week or so of the session. And offered amendments to bills whether they were Jermaine or whether they were not Jermaine. Here we come in with a little simple deposit bill. All of a sudden we end up with an amendment attached to the bill that we are dead telling the Board of Commissioners. They show supervise recycling centers. Now we come in with another 11-page bill. I'm going to attach it to a little four-page band The can bill. And this is got to do with litter. And it looks like on page someone so where the commissioner of Highway shall have a study try to Define what litter is and in subdivision five-letter means all waste material including but not limited to any glass bottles Nails tax wires cans garbage swell. papers carcasses of dead animals off of trash and rubbish How far are we going to go? I could support this bill here if it was on a bill in its own now to make the bill a little more palatable. We've got to add a 11-page Amendment on to this particular bill. We're going to have leaven. 5 16 pages Added to a bill which I originally was three. I think the bill itself now it's got to be a litter bill in itself. But I'm very much concerned on the way we take it right? I don't know if I should ask the president to rule this amendment out of order. Because it has something to do with litter mr. President, but just how far can we go on a bill such as this I guess I would ask for a ruling of the chair on this particular amendment is the president. president it really has been requested. So we got to get ourselves. In order to hear it was my intent Missy present to help you with that ruling. I can see 15 people want to help me with it and that takes up a lot what time I gave this some consideration of eating before the session because I knew this was going to happen. and my preference and I'm exercising. That's so much. You should have reasons at all of this. This bill as Senator Peterson's Amendment Center Toulouse. There's a bill this this amendment has to do with the management of pollution waste solid waste. Anda I personally don't like any of them I have to I agree that the Archer man are considered there in that area and this germaneness rule that you just even though it isn't something that you know, you like even though I don't like it. It's something that should be sparingly used and if we determined every time that there was a bill introduced that we couldn't put it on as an amendment. We have to look at each pack situation. You could really bring the legislative process to a halt. So am I really would be that it is Jermaine. president Cinema Qatar Mr. President. I wonder if the author the amendment would be able to question. Senator Luther with you yield to a question to Centre McCutchen. Yeah, see, how do you present Senator Luther is this the generally the same content in your amendment that Senate bill that's in the house tax committee. Center Luthor president Center McCutchen, that's correct. There are some refinements that were made through the committee process. This has been approved by both the Senate egg and natural resources committee and the Senate finance committee and then some additional refinements to tie it into this bill, but there is a companion to Sandra Willetts bill in the house tax committee. That's correct Serramonte Center Luther I'm interested. What did you do in the amendment that that precluded the necessity of sending the taxes and ascendant sign? Center Luther Express, I'm not sure I understood the question. Perhaps I could defer to Senator Willett Center. Well, did you understand the question but your president apparently the measure that's in the house which is a companion to the amendment is in the house tax committee and they have to present time are taking testimony on that issue. My question is what's in that bill that makes it a tax matter. That's not in this bill. senator wellick Is Chairman the way I read the amendment? It is a refined version of the bill that we have on special orders, which by the way snowtrooper first did not go to Transportation committee Leah the difference Senator McCutcheon is that play understand the redraft here is that the license fee imposed on a business that contributes to the litter stream will not be imposed until after the collection survey is completed. and then depending on who the largest contributors to the litter stream then the legislature make a decision on on What that feel be further discussion on the Luther Amendment the secretary will take the role. This is on the Luther Amendment. all senators having voted absentees have been called for this is on the Luther Amendment. The secretary will close the role. I've been 34 eyes and Luis fonsi by 35 eyes and was at 30 days. The Amendments is adopted when I have the bill before us as amended senators from Miss present members of the Senate. I promise this is the last statement. I'll make on this bill. I wouldn't call it a bill anymore by now because I don't think there's any member of this Senate that knows what is in this bill besides 11th. The Orange is the kitchen sink. I was surprised that Branch Banking wasn't out of here or they usually law don't bring that up. It'll be in there because when I said anything when I made reference to anything that the author will do at the beginning to Garner another vote. I did not expect the anything to be this and maybe we can take a lantern. I'll tell you maybe some of you heard this before what I mean by a lantern. That's what all I did the night. He went out. And the farmer asked him only where you going with the Lander? And only said I'm going to see my girl. The farmer said Willow Lake. You don't need a lantern. And only said oh yes, I do. Walla Farmers Saturday following the only when I went to see my girl, which is now my wife I didn't take a lantern. And you don't know leaf and he said yes, see what you got further than the president Duluth. Minnesota has said they could lose 10 million dollars worth of business to Superior, Wisconsin. I don't know if Senator Solon is here to hear that or not. I don't know what the city of Winona will lose on business, Wisconsin members of the Senate. If this Minnesota Legislature would see fit to add another $0.10 deposit. On every can or bottle containing beer soft drink that sold in this state. I think the rush to Wisconsin right on Highway 12. Right on Highway 43 going on and I don't know what the number of the road is up by Duluth. But we're going to see the people the state of Minnesota Rush there by their product and we're going to lose just one more segments of our business economy. The west side of our state is that not that heavy populated but they're going to be doing the same thing. There is Senator. Perfect. Well, mr. President the members of the Senate. I haven't participated in the debate tonight, but I heard about this great rush to Wisconsin and I want to freely admit to the Senate that I'm probably the least traveled Senator out of the state of Minnesota, you know, I just sort of hate the leave and I hate motels and I hit the travel outside of the government forcing me out of the state for short time. They're paying for my travel. I've almost never left the state, you know, I hear all these great things about other states and I'm let him have it but it just so happened that someone came down and said, you know that the st. Croix is the most unpolluted River in Minnesota, or maybe it's because it's on Wiscon. Nothing more than Wisconsin side or whatever it is. So I blundered into Wisconsin and you know, I'd heard all these stories about how they have no liquor tax there or it's minimal. You know when you save $120 a case well I have to drink Christian Brothers Brandy. It all and you want to stop the great rush to Wisconsin. So morelli's right down here $4.99 a full-court, you know, when there's three of us, you know, and you can bring in a quart per person. I'm going to save on those three quarts. So we went into a bar and I looked at the quarter Christian Brothers and it was $5.85 and Isis won't eat or something wrong here. But I said the problem is this is a bar, you know, they sell both on sale and on-sale if we go to a liquor store. Naturally we're going to save this two and a half bucks a bottle. So we drive around and we find the liquor store. And it was $5.75 for a quarter Christian Brothers. So if you want to stop the great rush to Wisconsin to buy booze, it's somehow you have to inform the people of Minnesota. That morelli's is selling Christian Brothers for 499. I'll full-court and if the word gets around But there's something that prevents the word from getting around and they get the word that it's cheaper in Wisconsin. So this great rush to Wisconsin. I sort of doubt that that would occur Center Staples. Mr. President. I've heard a great deal against this bill tonight, but I would like to just take a minute to speak in favor of this bill. I have a son who's working for the Oregon equivalent of the EPA as a volunteer and he's been very interested in my following the progress of the mandatory deposit legislation in Minnesota because he feels so strongly about its effect on roadside litter in Oregon. So he's that may some material for Oregon and I'd like to quote just a little bit of what has happened as a result of the deposit legislation in Oregon. Roadside letter was reduced overall 26% on a piece count basis and 35% on a volume basis the first year after the bill went into effect. During the second year of the reduction increased by 39% overall by piece count and 47% by volume. Beer and soft drink beverage container letter was reduced by 72% during the first year and by 83% during the second year following the ax October 1st 1972 effective date. No increase in enforcement activities was observed which would affect littering rates the fact that I've discovered about the mandatory deposit bill in, Oregon. Convince me that this legislation will go a long way toward keeping Minnesota as beautiful as we know it. Therefore I hope that we can all see it see fit to support this legislation. Are the secretary will take the role family can Was Defeated on a vote of 34-31 Senator Luther trying to bring it up again, but he was missing one bolt. Why is that an independent Republican? Senator George Pillsbury Pillsbury said, he would not vote for the bill because people got $0.08 for taking cans back to recycling centers. He said that was inefficient and that's not in the nature of business. I'm Debbie Gage at the Capitol.


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