They may try and Hike through to Cherry Road suggest they wanted to get into the Abbey over. I want everybody to know that we have established maximum security measures for the area to preclude any disruption these security measures include the movement of armored personnel carriers throughout the parameter in addition both motorized and foot patrols have been increased and checkpoints strengthened so that no movement in or out of the area will take place. Should we sit here and let some outside rabble-rousing sons of bitches Convenient Care Shawano apart. I have never work my ass off for what I got here. And by no means will I let some son of a bitch like that coming here would I would kill that son of yours so fast, it'd make your head swim never inhale what I listen to it and there was another hundred and fifty or two hundred men here felt exactly the same way. I cannot emphasize too much the need for your continued and peaceful cooperation at this critical time so that we can close our efforts to bring us peace full and honorable sailboat to a conclusion to get stronger if there is a shootout because they know that the confrontations like this so will lead to death but I think they're the determination will get stronger. I put out the word to bring in under 250 men with guns and I told him I want men with brains and got so they'll take orders. That we were not going to take the laundry out of one hand. We were merely going to be in reserve snowmobilers going in every night including last night that we are always up this morning and in Mass Attack, you know, the bishop with heavy gunfire just happened last night. It happened early this morning. It happened the night before and the night before and the night before why you just say did there's no question on that at all. Somebody had to try to drive Lewis. The guard wouldn't do it. They had no intention of doing nothing to get them out of their the Warriors only want these these forty Bandits and they call themselves Warriors and they run off and hide behind women and little kids what the hell kind of a Warriors at Attacked and shot at the novitiate instead of various night what hard evidence and facts you have the back up there. Well, well, maybe these large nut maybe these large numbers that come in and snowmobiles each night and attacked in the bishop. I've been in a division during the four nights when it leaves to attack, very heart attacks were made them into Bishop. Maybe these people being, you know flown in from Africa somewhere. I don't know Europe. I'm telling you the evidence is there I cannot divulge it. Could you suggest to curl finances at grab some representatives of the news media be allowed to sit in there for a night we get some sleeping reports from you. I called farmers and are they say all the shots are coming from the novitiate snowmobiler season of issue to Sam could we send a full of reporters? And therefore that is something you will have to discuss directly with chrome Simonson? I said they're still shoot. On the outside looking around for possible Personnel trying to leave the area of a square. From your location from a few couple rounds game on the direction of Northeast over the news and can't get in there today to these lines. We're going to voices from many perspectives many views of issues surrounding the monastery seizure by Menominee Indians near Gresham Wisconsin earlier this year controversial yet informative not entirely the Virgin points of view from a 34-day occupation clashing in the listener's mind is he or she tries to make sense out of a very complex and confusing event much like in many ways the truncated coverage of any continuing news story by the Press radio or television bits and pieces to the reader listener or viewer bits and pieces of sub. Together for generalization by the reporter whose perception of events must pass for an objective reflection of reality, but in truth objectivity and Reporting whether it's in the news or a courtroom testimony of an auto accident is a myth. It's not possible not for reporters not for anyone else in news coverage objectivity is an abstract goal never realized entity too many things get in the way deadlines the intended audience other news fighting for attention conscious or unconscious bias the values and points of view of the reporter those of his employer the point of view in the New York Times is different from that in the Saint Paul Dispatch and vice a versa CBS. Television doesn't come away with the same perception of an international story as does Perry match nor should it really for conversely. There's much in the criticism that news is too similar with little variety or differing perspectives. What the point here really is that the limits of the reporters perception can fine shape and direct report which the public is that handed often times as fact the objective picture of what happened out there tank. So the reporter is a person not a robot. He sees and hears but most importantly he edits some facts go in some don't some facts are juxtaposed in space or time with other facts balance a sense of fair play and factual accuracy. These are realistic goals objectivity is not of this world all of this. I guess my little essay here on mythology in the like puts me in mind of a film called rashomon and we shot in the 1950s under the brilliant Japanese director Akira Kurosawa at first glance the film rashomon presents itself as a sophisticated Crime Story laid in medieval Japan in the middle of the forest abandoned way lays a traveling Samurai and his wife. Inflamed by the woman's Beauty he rapes her after first assaulting the man and tying him up later. The samurai is found dead on the scene of the assault. But all these happenings belong to the Past rashomon reviews in retrospect the events that led to the murder. If in fact murder it was the story of what happened in the forest As Told by three participants as well as by a Woodcutter who pretends to have been an eyewitness. What is so utterly striking about the film is that each version is pictured in a straightforward manner from the point of view of the respective narrator the banded boasts of freeing the man and then killing him in a fair sword duel, the woman declares that she fell into a troubled state of mind and then stabbed her husband herself the dead Samurai and plays a medium to convey his own testimony. And that is that he committed hari-kari in his story The Woodcutter confirms the bandits version, but with a major difference, he says that the Bandit savagely murdered the Samurai at the behest of his shame. Wife to the movie viewer, it looks as if these conflicting accounts were assembled for the express purpose of reconstructing the crime in the forest, but the identity of the real criminal never leaks out and there's no final attempt to reconcile the four versions. Well, then what happens to the search for truth? What is the viewer to think perhaps Kurosawa the director is suggesting that there are many truths and not necessarily a fact bound reality that each one of us could agree on as objective different accounts in the news may not be so blatant in their disagreement at least at first glance first, listen and first few but perception of events often is and accordingly the decision to publish or are certain material or not too has to be a chancy business based on incomplete. If not, sometimes inaccurate information. It's the nature of the business something happens and one knows that all the facts will never be in. With this in mind I'd like to spend the remainder of the hour sharing the sounds and voices of some of the experiences and people caught up by the seizure at Gresham not all of them, but a few which came the way this reporter behind within his walls of perception. The motives of the Menominee Warrior Society whose members took over the unused Alexian Brothers Monastery in the early hours of New Year's Day when perhaps much of the public was still out celebrating May ever be shrouded in controversy, whether the warrior Society members were Band-Aids and some have described them or saving revolutionaries, as others have said may never be known. But to me one thing is clear a 34-day armed Indian occupation in the middle of some Woods in northeastern Wisconsin didn't occur in a vacuum there had to be a context and for that one useful point of view to get a barest handle on such motives might be some sketchy background on the overall Menominee tribe. It's a subjective consideration, but for that I shall read you verbatim from a road sign erected a few miles from Gresham by the Wisconsin Historical Society according to that sign when the famous French explorer for traitor in Hindi. Pacifier Jean Nicolet first step to the shores near the present side of Green Bay and 1634. The Menominees were living in peace with their neighbors on both sides of the Menominee River on the present sites of Menominee, Michigan and Marinette Wisconsin language in Legend stamp them as algonquin's and Indian nation, which included most of the tribes in the United States and Canada north of the Ohio river and east of the Mississippi the Menominee name was bestowed upon them by the Chippewa. It means people of the wild rice as white settlers encroached upon their lands and treaties then were made with the U.S. government. Menominee's reluctantly moved from one reservation to another by 1830 one. They had transferred to Eastern Indians half a million Acres at 4 and 1/2 cents per acre and another 1/2 million acres to the federal government at 5 and 1/2 cents per acre the money to be paid in annuities. Lamb disenfranchisement continued in 1836 when Wisconsin became a territory the Menominees were forced to sell 184320 Acres through the Fox River Valley for settlement in lumbering at $0.17 per acre, and they had to move again in 1848 the government sought to move them to the Crow Wing country of Minnesota. But this time the Menominee under the leadership of Chief Oshkosh refused to move in 1852. They were relocated on the Wolf River and they are in 1854. They were granted 10 Township. This is the present Menominee reservation. The sign doesn't mention this but Gresham is just off. The reservation also not mentioned is the fact that Menominee reservation became Menominee County in 1961 pursuant to a 1953 act of Congress, which terminated the tribe is a federal trust what this meant was that Menominees were no longer recognized as Indians by the federal government termination left a legacy of bitterness and frustration among the Menominees the reservation became a county and for the first time in their history what was left of Menominee treaty land became taxable a concept totally foreign to the Indian land owners in a few years. The county was the poorest in Wisconsin the hospital in school that closed land developers had bought up thousands of acres for Rich Resort speculation, and the tribe was in shambles. This year in 1975 after more than a decade of efforts to retry belies to go back then too protected reservation status. The Menominees will again become a federal trust but the bitter Legacy of termination still exist. And this was one of the Catalyst for the seizure of the Alexian Brothers Monastery inside the surrounded building during the occupation Warrior Society spokesman Mel Chevalier Junior offered some background just prior to termination. We sue the federal government for 10 million dollars for mismanagement of our forest, which is our way of life here, but two months ago or 3 months ago, there was a paper there was a picture in the paper taken from a satellite from 700 miles up in the air. And it showed the Upper Peninsula northeastern part of Wisconsin and very outline of our reservation boundaries that is shown on the map to show county lines and everything. You can see it from 700 miles up that we were totally blanket for us and all the surrounding areas around us were Barren and it and it just showing the Indians love for his land and that he doesn't go and stick. Mine it in in in terrible thing down in the name of mass-producing for money and prosperity and everything else and it shows from 700 miles up. You can see a clear outline of our reservation and It off quite a few years ago to the wiaa who handled everything, you know, they clear colored a permitted clear cutting and we sold them for 10 million dollars and you know, they weren't going to let us get by with that. So, I don't know if it was if it was along with that but Senator Samuel D Watkins from Utah who was a Mormon and and if you get into any kind of Mormon religion that Indians are the chosen people according to their religion he come up here and applied to Convert US to that religion and the Catholics boy. They started right away. They had us burn our Bibles and everything, you know, so will mr. Watkins. He didn't like that. You know, he was the one who addressed Congress in Prosper termination the way they did it was really sneaky. A lot of our people are uneducated. They didn't understand English. They don't understand a lot of stuff and then when when when we won that $10, they broke it down after they got done. It was about 7 million divided up into $1,500 payments and wet Watkins told Nami people $1,500 payments for each Menominee was on the honor rolls. Mr. Watkins told him and how many people that they wouldn't get $0.01 of that money unless they voted for termination when the people that vote did they thought they were voting for for the $1,500 payment in any by Norman's wasn't anywhere near two-thirds of the required vote. There was something like ninety seven people who voted for this out of how many who could vote, Ohio Citron 3500 + the whole thing when he addressed Congress after you came back at ya. Minami's want to be terminated and all this but the way he put it to the Menominees was listen is a thorn in your side man. You're calling all the shots you can call you on Sean snow will will take away like 10 million dollars in the bank just pay for your own school. This is what we were doing before termination. We paid for our own school. We paid Berlin Hospital even even pay the Agent salary to federal agents salary that was on this reservation. We paid his salary the Indian agent, right? We paid all of these things and still have money in the bank and we were a very prosperous tribe in that respect. When Watkins told him and I only people you should listen you want no longer have the Bia stand over your shoulder saying this is right in this is wrong and do this and do that. You'll be able to do it on your own so that they kind of butter the people up and control them into termination one who you know, when he addressed Congress, it was always, you know, the policy of the United States government say they wanted a civilized Indians. They want to educate them and in this was supposed to be helping, you know, according to their thoughts. They actually knew what they were doing. But the American people thought it was great that they were going to educate these heathens, you know, if he told the Congress the Menominee Indians were 3/5, I think three fifths of call traded to the white man society by 1930 and if that was so high I shudder to think at what point we are now somewhere above a one and a half an hour or so. He really talk to the good and in and he got a pass and it was all because of we didn't want to be a part of his religion and we didn't really have any say-so over it with Catholics who said hey get out of this is my money make her hear the priest in this area. He took two trips around the world a year. He had constituents and every country and every part of the states are begging in the name of poverty-stricken Menominee Indians and all this money was sent him Andre channel to the Green Bay, diocese various parishes who couldn't afford, you know that job keep it our church and everything. So they exploited the hell out of our people in the name of God. This is why we have such bitter feelings for the Catholic Church. Most Menominees would share Warrior spokesman chevaliers abiding hatred for the termination act and its partner legislation Public Law 280 both for the devastating effects. They had upon the tribe but not all Menominees approved of warrior Society methods and seizing that religious estate near Gresham for the first two weeks of the 34-day occupation. One of the Warriors harshest critics was Ada deer the head of the interim Tribal Council and term refers to the current transitional period between termination and restoration the 39 year-old Ms. Deer who possesses Social Work degrees from the University of Wisconsin and from Columbia University chairs the restoration Committee in concert with two other women all three deplored the Takeover initially Miss Dior referred to the Warriors as militant Invaders dissidents and political malcontents some of whom she said it tried unsuccessfully to gain elective seats on the restoration committee. He strongly condemned the occupiers as self-interested anarchists, but as the occupation lengthened Miss deer came under more and more pressure to Gap the growing factionalism within the tribe another week passed National Guard strength around the monastery was bolstered women and children were evacuated from the building the explosive atmosphere in the white Community intensified and finally that on January 19th, missed your call The Press Conference Center National Guard auspices at a motel and Sean o the County Seat in the white community near the Menominee reservation Indian hecklers, many of whom were family or relatives of the Warriors gathered at the motel in demonstration against her early anti-occupation position. Several members of our tribe are now occupying the election Brothers novitiate. It is time to speak out bluntly on the root causes of the occupation. Lima nominees and all of the Indian tribes are engulfed by racism. This is one of the chief causes of the occupation which has been conducted by frustrated Indian people with the best of motives. I believe in choosing my words carefully. But I also believe in calling a spade a spade. Let me give you a few examples. In the Shawano County courts Lima nominees. Do not receive Equal justice numbers of Indians are arrested and jailed. The judges in the white man's law weigh the scales of Justice against us. The jury switch seldom include Indians convict and hand down harsh sentences because they don't understand us. We are Central prisons in disproportionately high numbers and are then mistreated. Adoption and foster-care cases are other areas for Indians are treated unequally. Before termination we Indians had our own courts and legal systems in 1953 Public Law 280 took away jurisdiction and forcibly imposed State jurisdiction without the consent of the tribes. There is now a national movement to abolish Public Law 280, which is been discredited along with other termination dust doctrines. The point is simple. In order to receive Equal justice, we Indian tribes must administer our own Justice. The pressure by White Citizens on our lands and treaty rights is unrelenting. Throughout the state. We must conduct daily struggles to retain our ancestral lands and hunting and fishing rights. The churches have failed us because they have not taken these moral issues to their members. All churches must begin to concentrate much more on reality and much less and business. the State Attorney General's office Would you let me finish the State Attorney General's office? We have your cooperation, please so we can get this over with please. The State Attorney General's office must establish an independent division of the Attorney General's office to prosecute discrimination claims on behalf of American Indians with at least 10 lawyers must be directed by an American Indian and must have a free hand in combating racism against American Indians the state and the federal government must join in a comprehensive study to liberate Wisconsin Indians from the shackles of public law 280. I call upon the United States Congress to hold oversight hearings in Wisconsin Indian Country to expose the Injustice has a public law 280 in Wisconsin and to return to Wisconsin tribes their rightful control over the administration of justice and, Wisconsin reservations. These proposals are essential to eliminate basic inequities, which Menominees and other Wisconsin Indians face, but we all know that there's other crucial business at hand today the protection of life and the solution to a desperately serious situation. Menominee restoration committee issued a detailed 5.2 puzzle on January 10th two days ago several Indian organizations expanded on that proposal and pledged all the resources to that proposal. We believe that those proposals should be pursued and I want to say very pointedly that the Alexian Brothers must themselves make some compromises today. It appears that they have not done salt. I have no instant Solutions, but I do have some general comments, which I hope will prove helpful. The American Indian movement has been here from the outset. Accordingly after giving the American Indian movement time and after mounting personal concern, I called upon other national Indian leaders to come here to help us. The safe Alliance is my concern and I call on all people to join me in this endeavor. The national tribal chairmen's Association has sent their treasure the nearest ranking officer to help us the National Congress of American Indians has sent their area vice-president to help me find a solution also said they have also sent their prayers and support and a willingness to achieve a peaceful resolved without loss of life. The Great Lakes inter-tribal Council. In other Indian organizations have lent their support in the past few days many hours day and night have been devoted to the lives and feelings of those inside the novitiate. I have learned that much more is needed to prevent further confrontation of this kind. I hope that the white Community the people of Shawano I've learned from this experience and can now begin a process of social legal and moral change that will give proper recognition to the humanity and plight of Indian people. I accept my share of criticism, but I hope that our people will remember that the Menominee restoration committee is but an interim governing body with a specific task of developing a government and an election process that will establish a tribal council to solve problems. Those of us in leadership positions in the tribes are aware of and are sensitive to the frustrations and the feelings of those tribal members who are in the novitiate. It is time for all tribes to examine their governmental structures to be certain that all tribal members are represented from the youngest to the oldest. We will address these issues as we draft our Constitution and bylaws. As the members of our tribes leave them efficient, we welcome their active participation in the governmental processes of the tribe the MRC itself to that girl. Criticism is proper but working together is necessary. Let's not fight among ourselves. We need all the help we can get this includes the warrior society and the American Indian movement. We will create a system built on Indian principles and ideas that will respond to the social cultural and legal problems. We now face. All Indian people will understand me when I say respect your brother's vision. Here with me today are to Indian Representatives who join me in the statement. They are my choices. Vice president of the National Congress of American Indians Rick Baker National Treasure the national Chairman's Association. Please answer questions. Ate a deer and others later the same day up on the reservation a newly formed group of tribal Elders called the Menominee people's committee, which had been set up to negotiate with the Warriors condemned Miss deers remarks that committee conveyed to about 200 listeners a list of warrior concerns, which included a demand for the outright deed to the Alexian novitiate the desires to return to traditional Menominee cultural practices that pursuit of ancestral land claims through the courts the push for a reservation Health delivery service and Indian control School housing in law enforcement programs Ted board chairman of the seemingly moderate people's committee carried these and other demands to the Indian audience. and this is a sensitive. thing for me to say they want to re-establish. the males dominant leadership role in the tribe They were emphatic about this. They didn't want any compromise. these we agree are the major issues. Are there any issues they want this conveyed? Do the Menominee people they want a commitment? Who works for these things? By the committee, they want to see the Menominee people work for these things I emphasize again. that day I'm willing to die for what they're trying to achieve. There's no question in our minds that they're willing to do that. The response from this Menominee audience was strong and approving of all the warrior Society points a wide majority of listeners then signed a petition to Wisconsin Governor Patrick Lucey asking that the posture of the National Guard be kept nonviolent and that a peaceful negotiated settlement of the 3-week gold confrontation be pursued at the state level in other business. The people's committee called for the resignation of a two deer and of the two other Indian women who hold the infirm tribal leadership positions. support Ireland people How about leaders to Florida? When I say pick them the hell out of here, that's why I feel I want to cuddle. I wish I was never never spoke like this before. The fact I always was with my father. Position I talked to my father talked a long time with her. He says son if that's what you think going through it. By God, do it through one of the speakers was a Menominee woman who reinforce the warrior demand the tribe be returned to patriarchal control. four men Menominee men 2BR spokesman it's going to happen. Because we fought them here today. We are going to support them because they are men. It is not tribal tradition for starts to lead a tribe. have to go man Batman and I would also like to conclude with this statement that I support the Menominee Warrior Society because they are men. The people's committee an ad hoc group of nine men seemed impressed by their recent mediating visit to The Abbey a visit arranged by the National Guard people. She can drop their leaves in the shaking their identity. It's something beautiful to watch beautiful. You come to the dance this evening dance with you here. Drum, beautiful. Body wash some of that you think it's something else. These people are trying to shake that. I was impressed by their activity respect respectful if they showed us. What are losing faith in your government County government state government federal government. It's kind of a joke by your government official. They swear on the Bible. I don't know what the hell is in there. In the chicken A Treatise what the Indian land is people want or shaking the treaties when the government made the Lord made the street is they took their inspiration from the Bible in that Bible. You look back in the Book of Leviticus. It says the land shall not be shown in perpetuity in Indian Country there seem to be a solidified reaction in the white Community disgust anger and hatred in Shawano. I spoke with Charlie McBride a local snowmobile dealer McBride A spokesman for the white American movement and for the concerned citizens of Shawano County didn't hide his feelings for me. I can't see how somebody can take your property at gunpoint and the Goat Not negotiate options are things honorable people sit down and negotiate over if I hold a gun at your head. You're at a great disadvantage. Would you change your mind if you learn that the Alexian Brothers property was Indian treaty land would that make a difference at all? Because they mean nothing to be even if the tree land was taken by gunpoint at that time. So I'll leave that to go back in history. And if the white man did take something at gunpoint, let's face facts. It's been taken. Now we can't stop her all our lives because our forefathers to 300 years ago did something I would say then every white man in the United States have to move out. This is all United States belong to the Indians won driver another know that's our attitude. Let's what move out and give it back to him. How do you think the National Guard should have handled the problem here in Shawano County? I think they should have continued in the same Methodist Church Mentor was using that they had him out of there in probably a couple more days. I don't say they should shoot anybody but they should have kept the current off not give him any food no medical supplies, and I'm sure that within a couple days later walked out of the building now if they'd have been stupid enough to stay there and freeze to death or starve to death. Then that falls on their shoulders not on ours and how do you think the governor play depart with baby and soft? He told him feed him clothing can medical expenses. Bring them television sets anything they wanted whatever they requested down to the Sunday newspapers. Deliver dinner like little carrier voice. He allowed women in there. For people that don't want to work for a living when you got everything you can think of plus women. Why would you ever want to come out it seems to me that our governor are National Guard and everybody around here is telling our young people if you want something 40-50 get together and grab a gun and go take it. Now what you think of it? They will probably get minor senses before they get a couple years. What is the easiest way to pick up $750,000 worth of property really six million dollars worth of property is that negotiates worth if you had to replace it, I think anybody should in jail for a couple years for 750 or a million or two million dollars when you Charlie McBride and now from the monastery itself weary broadcast an interview with the warrior society and nearly a month Menominee Indians have occupied the Alexian Brothers novitiate near Gresham Wisconsin Association for a peaceful settlement resume last night in and around the novitiate and continue throughout this day tonight the fifth and final part of an exclusive interview from inside the novitiate a conversation with Michelle Chevalier Jr. Spokesman for the Menominee Warrior Society reporter. Kevin McKiernan tells us the novitiates 2 foot Stonewall muffled the sounds of gunfire with punch. headed there discussion of Menominee religion I've come to understand a lot of things I would say in the last year that I have finally realized. I wasn't Indian and what it means to be an Indian what it means our religion with whatever religion means a religion was taken away from us long time ago. And the Catholic religion was thrown upon us and we had when we got beat up cuz we can go to church cuz I'll be up to anything to do with any of this and we got beat up those people up in the car traditional people who were exiled from their very brothers and sisters because they wouldn't go out this way of life their religion Ragsdale by the United States government at the point of a gun and one when anytime we associated with those people, you know, we were punished for and they said those are pagans. You know, our way is right way there where is paganism, you know, and finally Go after all of these years we didn't believe him either one of the religions because first of all we didn't get our any religion to understand enough and that they understand here after year after year after year and a half has no credibility it consultants in it so that as a result. We have a lot of Alcoholics in a lot of broken marriages lot of broken homes, all of that stuff as a result of taking away our religion and now we can recognize this know some of this understanding perhaps some of this hatred Is some of that channel toward the Alexian Brothers who owned the building that was sitting in some of our brothers who are at certain certain levels of awareness. They understand some of them are back in those days where they are totally frustrated. They hate all white people and they missed us all white people. But once they come to understand their religion, totally they will know that white people are brothers as well as Indians Flags. We're all Brothers in and we all have one Creator to message in which we honor our creator and worship him are very essential to various cultures and Indian can practice a white man's method of practicing religion and ineffectively find any anything in it and find any Comfort Inn in Kearney anything at any advice Personnel away and now we see a mask Pardison it and it's just quite operational between visions of lot of our old ones a lot of fluffy and a lot of God Prophecy in the Bible before it was revised feel compromised interesting. We don't actually hate anyone and I I just like to make that clear we don't hate people because some of them don't understand what we want. Some of them don't understand what they're doing and we must just have patience that maybe one day I'll wake up and I'll stop doing this but these people who run the United States government President Ford. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing. He doesn't know if he's working for Morgan's all these people who control almost every part of the world gets Plantation that happened in and South America that the overthrow of that children government all of us. Did you know, it's all done with the money. I know what the hell's going on out there. But you know, that's that's what that's all about man molesting. You know status quo status though, like we hope you have a great Thursday. It's automatic. Omega automatic weapons Olive Garden sheriff's department and got unloading Soup for the Purina west of our position that feeling when I turn had a confrontation with a little erratic firefighting on. and now he lied about it to Media needs to know it wasn't us now. But you know that Vigilantes going to try to blame it on the Vigilantes, but we know the Vigilantes don't let it all out for 25 radios and I'm 16, but Starlight scopes on little green uniforms know something out of Six Flags. You know, what kind of animated government is when the sheriff's department had a couple of deputies surrounding this estate. I can definitely say yes, but you know because of Gwinnett fire like from the hard rock found out about 40 people up there 40 cops and on and when they all have the same time, you can tell it was automatic or semi-automatic get the brightest LED flying in here. You know, why do people here who are Vietnam veterans who could compare the intensity of firing here with some of the action they saw as a totally different situation. I was in Vietnam for a year with the 1st Marine Division. I was in the Infantry. So I had a lot of experience with combat and what we're dealing with an entirely different situation here. I didn't take me long after I was in Vietnam to figure out what was actually going on. There was a ton of their exploitation of some innocent people, but we're fighting here. I can relate to anything to how it was in Vietnam as to what's going on here for fighting establishment here was supposed to be dealing directly with your life. Sheriff you want to deal with the government would want to deal with just a it we going to do with Connor you do want to be with your brothers? and survive 30 rounds I want to deal with the Alexian brother. So the government has been intervening. We know what the CIA is out there in the FBI and supposedly they're giving those people information are no advice how to handle a thing and Ashley calling the shots. You don't feel like seeing Buzz. I'm sure all the pressure they're getting from the church and everything and if if they are what they profess to be they wouldn't allow for any bugs and they wouldn't allow for something that they got for nothing, especially when it's our property. They would they would give it to us without question. But because of government intervention here, they're trying to you know first they tried to waiting out tactics and that kind of thing. So all we have to do is be strong and end. hold our position one thing that we have that they don't have is Play Bangalore thing that's over our heads and doesn't mean that doesn't mean to us what it means to them. That's what is the climax of life. That's when we need the one who created us. The one who created all of this. We meet him then you know, and if he died fighting for four people to recognize this have the communication with with the Creator that we have before the white man came before they took it away from us if we have to die to restore this as it's not a sacrifice on our behalf. It's a commitment it's it's our responsibility and it's not, you know, we're not hurting ourselves this way. A lot of people say while lying then guys are dying for a building a worthless building. There's no reason for it. It's not the building. We're dying for their people in our religion our way of life and all that is so important. Are there any terms under which you would come out of this building. I think guarantee us. the title to property through Menominee people Like I said before. When we first come in here was my intention to come in here to provide an opportunity. 2 hour Congrats, it isn't a car to get them recognized when they bring charges on us for this week and use this as our defense to know and what you guys are the nation of United States government to honor a very long that they roll. How long has it been since there was a gun fires change like the one going outside right now. 1 + 1 just wondering if you're free for you would lie Night Vale a junior. The atmosphere in and around the Gresham novitiate continues to be tense 300 white members of the concerned citizens Committee in the area of the monastery have extended to this weekend their deadline for the National Guard to end that nearly 4 week old occupation. After that time. They say they will act on their own to clear the armed and how many warriors Society from the religious estate for national public radio. This is Kevin McKiernan as the Menominee Warrior Society occupation lengthen from a few days to a week and then into several weeks. It was clear that the original demand of reclaiming the ancestral treaty land for an Indian Hospital was only one of many Warrior Society grievances. In fact, it wasn't long before the Warriors Society accepted professional advice that the Alexian state was too cumbersome for a hospital and that it was better suited for an Indian school. But as it happened at Wounded Knee in 1973, the novitiate seizure came to act as a Forum for issues much larger than itself to the Warriors the five weeks of attention generated by the occupation gave conditions of Health unemployment and education among the nominees and hearing they have not had however on a day-to-day level it was as one Observer described it a painful chest game the lives of farmers and others in the immediate area of the Abbey were disrupted and Indian inside the estate and a white snowmobile or outside the National Guard perimeter around it were wounded by gunfire. The Alexian Health service oriented order of Catholic Brothers came under tremendous pressure from the state governor's office from the National Council of churches in Washington and from many segments of the public in the end. They drop their demand for $750,000 and allow the property to be deeded to the Menominee tribe for $1 and future undetermined considerations. The elections have been donated the 237 acre estate in 1954. Reportedly. Nearest to the Nabisco cracker fortune in 1968 after new professions to the order had dwindled the brothers vacated the estate several times. They had made attempts since then to sell the property wants to the Wisconsin Highway Patrol for the asking price of over $1000000. The patrol was seeking a training ground for state troopers, but apparently found the price or the estate itself unsuitable. The Alexian has continued its upkeep reportedly at $40,000 a year and maintained a caretaker near the 64 room Mansion. He and his family were driven from their home when the estate was seized early January 1st throughout the 34 days which followed the seizure the chess game was played in and around the monastery in the first few days of the standoff 300 local sheriff's deputies dueled with the Warriors gunfire exchanges were heavy tensions mounted in the white community. And then on January 7th in an effort to calm the atmosphere in and around Gresham, Wisconsin Governor Patrick, Lucey activated the National Guard peaceful, negotiations commenced heat and electricity were restored food and medical supplies were permitted through the blockade and into the monastery. However, the occupation continued and after about 10 days whites in the area began to pressure the National Guard for a forceful settlement when no settlement was forthcoming the pressures escalated to threats and ultimatums, unlike the FBI agents and Federal Marshals at Wounded Knee. However, the National Guard more and more became a buffer between angry Indians inside and angry whites outside the Seas compound and unlike the federal agents many of whom had volunteered for assignment against Indians on the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota National Guardsmen did not seem to be where they were out of choice. They were Weekend Warriors who no doubt wanted simply to do their job. And to go home and if there should be tribute paid to someone for ensuring that loss of life and that very explosive standoff did not occur. The tribute should be paid to National Guard Commander you Simonson Simonson bent over backwards and conciliation efforts both toward the atom and occupiers and the enrage citizens of Shawano County the control of his men was exemplary, especially in a few of their double defensive role when fire fight broke out between arm snowmobilers and armed Indians. The National Guard was often in the middle defending both flanks Colonel Simonson's posture continue to be as it had been when his troops arrived the first day it was then he told reporters The Abbey is not worth one drop of human blood throughout the confrontation. He remained a death Diplomat working behind the scenes crying in public to satisfy both sides the ladder task off and called for attempting to say opposite things simultaneously to generalize And not to be specific. It was often maddening to news men Colonel. Do you see the buildup of American Indian movement supporters here and making this a possible tinder box under the present conditions around Gresham. I'd rather not comment on I haven't evaluated. I don't know what the situation is far as that's concerned. No, not that I know what we're doing. Everyone else knows what we're doing the people in The Avenue or doing today. That's the important thing you filming locations for the Abbey. You feel negotiations are progressing effectively at this point. They are progressive. The direction toward an honorable settlement that there would be an attack by the National Guard. You know, I don't think this. Well, thanks at the fair that all right. Are warriors and they have no fair? Colonel Simonson made that statement in mid-January similar statements followed every day, it took patients. But in the end it proved to be a wise policy one, which perhaps save the National Guard and others from potential tragedies like that in Kent State or Attica steaks in the chess game where the highest on February 1st. When Governor Lucy called a press conference in Madison at the state capitol there. He announced that he no longer believed a negotiated settlement was possible Lucy then order the National Guard strength doubled bringing the Cordon of soldiers to 850 then ordered armored personnel carriers and a tank too firmly seal off the novitiate perimeter just a day earlier in a last-ditch negotiation attempt Colonel Simonson allowed several new mediators to enter the Abbey to speak with the warrior Society American Indian movement leader, Dennis Banks himself one of many mediators in the past elaborated. Father John Garvey and attorney Bob Bryan and Marlon Brando made a commitment to stay in there and to help develop proposals through negotiations and just stay in there. If it meant dying with the Warriors then so be at that they were willing to take those chances and stay till the very end. I think that in the event that there was a there was no alternative but to go in her off from the governor's point of view that he was going to take it by force. and I think my commitment is to go inside and be with you what those Warriors and on February 2nd only a day after the governor's announcement Warrior Society attorney Bob Ryan revealed that a settlement was in fact at hand settlement is not contingent Upon A Masti these brave warriors men and women who willing to die for what they believe in if they can't get in to see they're willing to go to jail for At this point they consider this a victory inside and definitely 100% a victory and they're very pleased and their hearts are I think one of a joy peace and love and tremendous amount of satisfaction that there has been so much understanding that has come out of this amount of the nun Engine World you feel there will be a peaceful evacuation tempers in Shawano County or very high and you expect expect gunfire tonight. You expect a different call the eye we expect this to be the most difficult evening. The colonel has assured us that he will step up security measures around the perimeter. I think if there's any blood tonight, it will certainly be very unfortunate because these people want is peace. This is all the warrior societies one from the beginning is peace, and I think it will be very unfortunate and I hope that the Grape Harvest Community the Shawano area Gresham area will look at this as Christians and as people with love in their hearts rather than bitterness and hatred are there very many people in numbers in Shawano County who are prepared to do that while I'm sure there are can you give me some sort of estimate how many men would pick up a gun and take the lawn to their own hands? Oh, I know of probably a 2500 or 3000 that have offered themselves would appear that there may have been a hundred or two hundred who were armed and on snowmobiles who were assaulting The Abbey the last night before the evacuation. I won't answer that. A few hours after attorney Brian statement Alexian brother Maurice Wilson confirm that then officially it would in fact go to the Menominee tribe. The Alexian Brothers care. We have been serious about caring for the past six centuries. Our purpose has been and will continue to be to save life and to raise the physical and spiritual quality of life. We the Alexian Brothers have searched our hearts in order to understand all sides of this conflict. We have listen with an open mind. We asked all concerned and interested people to do the same. This action is also in keeping with the Alexian Brothers efforts and negotiations begun more than a year ago to dedicate the novitiate property for used by the Indian. These efforts were thwarted by the occupation of the novitiate. During the 30 to 60 days that remain before the Menominee regain tribal status 7 trustees will manage the property until the new tribal government is elected. The time has come for all persons in the Shawano and Menominee area. To heal its wounds and to ensure a constructive outcome from this distasteful conflict. An atmosphere of trust and Christian forgiveness must be promoted brother Maurice Wilson of the Alexian order later the same day, February 2nd Richard stadelman Shawano County district attorney met with reporters statement of a question. The answer is at this time at all will be leaving shortly. Grandpa size that we had nothing to do whatsoever with these negotiations who wish to stress that we disagree with the armed and violent methods employed the game title of this property. Cincinnati vacuolation is eminent. However, we as law enforcement officials strongly urge that there be no violence and that all unauthorised persons stay away from the perimeter area for their own protection criminal prosecutions are already in progress and arrest definitely will be made. Thank you inside be arrested while I have no comment at this time the following days 39 Indian men and women surrender to the National Guard they were then arrested by Shawano County authorities and Wisconsin state troopers. According to the Sheriff's several times that number Escape From The Abbey sometime during the occupation. The arrested were all charged with gross misdemeanor disorderly conduct and Criminal Trespass to a building 5 leaders were charged in addition with multiple felony counts. As of today. The leaders are still in jail awaiting trial actor Marlon. Brando was not sure. Charged any met with reporters in Shawano the night of the evacuation. These people are prisoners of war and I think that they should be accorded the same Accord that we treat other prisoners of war and that all Indians. This is not really a question of the Menominee's. It's not a question of Sioux or Papago or on that it's a question of all Indians and Indigenous rights of people to maintain a life that is determined by their views and their value. It was flying around us then it was a sudden change of reality. It's just a little I hit the first time I was ever on the fire Marlon Brando. Dr. Herbert, khaury 48 year-old white physician who ministered to the warrior Society inside. The novitiate was not charged either. However, subsequently he was sentenced to 90 days in the county jail, when he refused to testify under subpoena in the state investigation of the novitiate seizure just after the evacuation. Dr. Carr spoke with me about what he considered his most impressive experience inside the occupied compound all the time that I was there and there was an eagle flying Soaring Over the building every day. I went out to pray I saw it as an eagle and out of the eagle is what we call a non traditional religion a helper the Eagles one of the greatest operas if you can get it and I'm quite sure that when the National Guard Uprising by the fact that when several occasions that we did have an eagle off as a Helper and they didn't believe it when they finally came down and they saw that eagle They pay for the second time to see the expression on his people's faces when they actually saw the eagle Soaring Over the he was sent there by great spirit to let us know that he was with us at all times. So I we didn't have any real problems out there. That's why we succeeded. Dr. Herbert car and for one perspective on the seizure at Gresham. This is Kevin McKiernan.