MPR’s Tom Crann interviews Dr. Jon Hallberg about the intersection of poetry and medicine. Segment includes Halberg reading a William Carlos Williams poem, amongst others. Williams, sustained his medical practice throughout his writing career.

Transcript:

(00:00:00) This is all things considered on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Tom crean April is National poetry month for a little while longer. At least when you might not know that one of this country's most prominent poets William, Carlos Williams sustained his medical practice throughout his writing career. In fact, there was even a competition named in his honor for medical students now here to talk about the intersection of poetry and medicine as our regular medical analyst for all things considered. Dr. John Hallberg. Hi John. Hi Tom.
(00:00:25) It's good to have you here as
(00:00:26) always and let's start with William Carlos Williams. I want you. To read a poem of his to begin. A lot of people might not have been familiar with the fact that he was a practicing obstetrician a my corrector general practice.
(00:00:38) But absolutely in fact, he had a lot of labels attached to him. He was sort of an OBGYN. He was also called a general pediatrician others call them a general practice physician. In fact, his son wrote it an essay a few years ago that in today's terms. He would probably be known as a family physician. Okay, so kind of a jack-of-all-trades absolutely. Well, the polymer read is something called laments America Louis French is not so good there. But I think this is a nod to Moliere and it translates roughly to the doctor in spite of himself. Oh, I suppose I should wash the walls of my office polish the rust from my instruments and keep them definitely in order build shelves in the laboratory. Empty out the old stains clean the bottles and refill them by another lens put my journals on edge instead of letting them live flat and heaps then begin 10 years back and gradually read them to date cataloging important articles for ready reference. I suppose I should read the new books if to this I added a bill at the Tailor's and at the News grow a decent beard and cultivated a look of importance who can tell I might be a credit to my lady happiness and never think anything but a white thought. I read this recently at a family medicine conference in Minneapolis. And when I got to the part about the journals the the audience collectively laughed because I think that this really speaks to many of us. I mean most Physicians are a bit obsessive
(00:02:00) compulsive or bit don't have any Rusty instrument
(00:02:04) to Heaven No, in fact, I was just looking for the day that not too many decades ago doctors had to sharpen their own needles to make them work a little bit. But wow, so, I think this Harkens back to probably the 1930s when we wrote this guidance
(00:02:16) 63 we Add wins Carlos Williams. So it really Rings true for you.
(00:02:20) It does. I mean, I think that you know, we are perfectionistic by very nature and I and we are always struggling with the fact that there's so much more we could do so much more we could learn but you know this day-to-day practice of medicine kind of gets in the way of things and we're spending, you know, the majority of our time with patients in as William. Carlos Williams says the humdrum day in day out every day work that is the real satisfaction of the practice of medicine now
(00:02:45) here is a poem you sent. By Jack Kula hand You Know Jack
(00:02:49) Houlihan. I did I met him at a very interesting place in Ohio. There's a little tiny College East of Cleveland call Hiram College and there there's a place called the center for literature medicine and the health care professions. Wow. Yeah, and I had a chance to walk a few miles with him through Amish Country Side and he's a very interesting gentleman. He's at SUNY Stony Brook and there he runs kind of their physician in society or their they called the medicine and contemporary Society program for their medical students. So he
(00:03:15) is a practicing physician and professor as well.
(00:03:17) He is indeed and this is a poem of his
(00:03:19) called The Man With Stars inside him. That's great images. Deep in this old man's chest a shadow of pneumonia grows. I watch antoniou Shake with a cough that traveled here from the beginning of Life as he pulls my hand to his lips and kisses my hand. Antonio tells me for a man whose death is gnawing at his spine. Pneumonia is a welcome friend a friend who reaches deep between his ribs without a sound and puff a cloud begins to squeeze. So delicately that great white image of his heart the Shadow on X-ray grows each time Antonio moves each time a nurse Smooths lotion on his back or puts a fleece between his limbs each time. He takes a sip of ice and is moist cheek shakes with cough the shadow grows in that delicate Shadow is a cloud of gas at the Galaxy's Center a cloud of cold-stunned nuclei begin to spin spinning and shooting a hundred thousand embryos of stars. I listened to Antonio's chest Where Stars crackle from the past and hear the boom of of blue giants newly caught and the snap of white dwarfs coughing spinning the second time Antonio kisses my hand. I feel his Dusky lips reach out from everywhere in space. I look at the place. His body was and see inside the Stars. It's called The Man With Stars inside him by dr. Jack kou Le Han. And in that poem what strikes me is. I from the images is this level of intimacy the doctor has with the patient and I imagine when you go into the examining room with each patient, even on a routine basis. There's a level of intimacy there that we don't often think of we think we're just going to the doctor and we think you're just doing your job. But how does that happen?
(00:05:10) Well, it's an amazing process and it's hard to pinpoint when it Exactly begins and I think medical students will all have that sort of epiphany moment when they just sort of Dawns on them that the doors closed a patient is telling them something that frankly their spouse may not know their past or priest or Rabbi may not know so it's an incredibly intimate. I mean, I often liken it to a confessional and it really is in many ways. In fact many students when they're interviewing for spots in medical school will comment that that though they are drawn to the ministry and some broader level. That's not how they want to spend their career, but But there's parts of that that appeal to them and I think there is this sort of ministerial quality. I mean, obviously there's this great mystery of life and death and we are we are present we Are Witnesses at Birth and we Are Witnesses at deaf and I think this poem so beautifully captures that sort of sense of Amazement or miraculousness, you know this connection to the cosmos as it were and the relief he feels absolutely
(00:06:06) that you brought a poem that gets at what medical science can't always tell us.
(00:06:12) That's right. Final poem is called MRI of a poet's brain and MRI is magnetic resonance. Imaging many of us know about this many of experienced it firsthand on a particularly Pleasant test. It's more of a culvert than anything that you're sort of put into and there's a loud noise associated with it. And you know, it's working at this sort of atomic level to sort of spin hydrogen atoms in a certain way and you know, not only is this technology Cutting Edge, but now we're even doing functional MRIs or we can actually kind of look at people's brains and get a sense of what part of the brain is actually working and help. Absolutely and pet scans which bring color to the picture and and can tell us, you know, when people are experiencing Rage or happiness, you know, what parts of brain might light up or if someone's mentally ill what proper brain appears to be not functioning so well, so, you know that what the future holds is phenomenal. So I think that this nicely captures the limits of what we can do MRI of a poet's brain in this image of your brain. I see each curve in the corpus callosum curlicues of jai re folding a fissures. Sulci mammillary bodies arcuate fasciculus angular gyrus tracks and nuclei eyes and ears tongue and pharynx but not even a single syllable of one tiny poem.
(00:07:27) So there are things that the MRI can't show us in can't tell us what is interesting. Is it the Journal of the American Medical Association you were saying John gives us a poem or gives readers a poem in every issue. So what do you learn from the Poetry or poem just like the one you read that you Get from the scientific pages of that journal.
(00:07:45) Well, you know isn't this one of the arguments that poetry is very hard to do. Well, it's very hard to construct a nice little poem. But when it's done, it can contain within it volumes of information and I think that in our sort of information overloaded age many of us Physicians were flipping through Jama. Certainly, there are those who will never read The Poetry but once my will pause and and read it and you can be sort of Thunderstruck. I think sometimes by the wisdom them contained within it and or the emotion contained within it and I think it reminds us constantly of this balance this struggle. We have between the Art and Science of medicine.
(00:08:23) Alright. Thanks John for helping us celebrate National poetry month in perhaps what many might think unlikely ways. Thank you, Tom. Dr. John Hallberg is a family physician at the University of Minnesota medical school.