MPR’s Katherine Lanpher talks with poets Robert Bly and William Duffy about their adventures in poetry - both then and now.

In the 1950's, the two Minnesota poets ostensibly trying to farm, founded a poetry journal that set about to do nothing less than reform American poetry. Their journal, “The Fifties”, is now seen as a seminal event in postwar American poetry.

Transcript:

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(00:02:00) Good morning, and welcome to mid-morning. I'm Katherine Lanford. It started with a declaration the editors of this magazine think that most of the Poetry published in America today is too old-fashioned with that Battle Cry in 1958 to young poets named William Duffy and Bly issued forth their challenge to the literary establishment from a small farm and Madison Minnesota, they called their new journal the 50s and it attracted attention and influence far beyond its small list of subscribers some observers credited with aiding the post-war evolution of American poetry in which poets moved away from strict formalism toward the free verse. We're so familiar with today the 50s published the translated works of Pablo. Ruta venerated today, but virtually unheard of in this country at the time the small Journal attracted and promoted new names like WD Snodgrass Galway Canal James Wright the journal became almost as famous for its rejection letters one prominent poet received this one reading your poetry is like driving a team of mules. Eventually, the two co-founders went on to other things William Duffy taught high school English and French and Grand Marais, Minnesota. A while continuing to contribute to National poetry journals Robert Bly won the 1968 National book award for his book of poems called the light around the body and he's perhaps best known today for his poetry is translations of other poets and his bestseller linked with the men's movement iron. John the two men join us today in the studio. Welcome both of you. I'm really glad you're here.
(00:03:45) Thank you. Good
(00:03:46) morning. All right, what was so old fashioned about poetry when the two of you? That Battle Cry. Well, we'll start with you Robert Bly and then I will go to build Fe.
(00:03:57) Well, I think that two things had gone on one was I'm at that time. We people receiving a lot of Grants to go to Italy and you got endless poems about squares and Italy which are very boring. And so those were sort of academic things done in a nice old meter, but and the second thing was that That we had, you know, we had been in the second world war and it made us a way of the European countries. And when we began to look at those their poetry was far ahead of
(00:04:35) ours. So in other words, we you were in a situation where the countries that perhaps this boring poetry was being written about all those squares in Italy when you actually went over to Europe the voices were much fresher and vibrant than the way poets were writing about it
(00:04:50) here. Yeah, and I think the difference is that at that time we admire the European countries tremendously and their poor to the Poetry of Machado The Poetry of lorkhan. So on Gabrielle Garcia, yeah, we needed all of that. Now it's as if we have we think we're the leaders of the world. So we no longer translate so much of that. Hmm. They think because Schwarzenegger movies are everywhere that we are the
(00:05:19) leaders. Yeah, not exactly the export. I'm proudest. Style, that's right. Bill Duffy. Tell me why did you think poetry was so old what an old-fashioned mean and does it make you sort of smile now to think of how you set back 40 years ago and pronounced other things old-fashioned.
(00:05:36) Well, when when we read poetry and anthologies, most of the poems we read were 50 75 years old and Poets at those times were still copying and using the forms and Traditions of the English without ever thinking that maybe there's a new American Forum.
(00:05:58) Well not so in other words. It's because if you're if you love poetry you're so used to free verse now, it's very hard to Envision that if you were just out of college in in the 50s that if you wanted to write poetry you still had to do formal meter you had to count like iambic pentameter.
(00:06:19) Yes. That was so restrictive. We felt though. That was like Going to practice the hundred-yard dash in a in a jail cell, you know, and there's a lot of feeling about that. I mean we said some of these things that build a saying about the new mayor conform and Allen Tate wrote this
(00:06:34) letter now whooping up Tim Allen remember not everyone is going to
(00:06:37) remember Alan taste was the Great Southern writer who is at the University of Minnesota sort of the leaders of the community in the in here and he wrote her letters and he said that's ridiculous what you're saying. You can write poems that are not in iambic pentameter a dog can walk on his front legs, too. So what so a lot of anger he got your nasty real quickly. Didn't it? Very angry and then we'd when they sent us these types of letters many times as a retaliation. We published the letters maybe Robert you have one of the letters there that you could well you see this business The Poetry is too old-fashioned. That's also distant gesture to make people mad. And so then and since all the quarter, he's pooped to old-fashioned we didn't have to print any so he'd reject. Everything that came in
(00:07:23) Levi was want to make sure I have this in the right context the two of you you're out of college, you're at the farm and Madison Minnesota and you're looking around at the Poetry establishment. And basically you're saying who can we piss off right? Do I have that?
(00:07:35) Right? That's something like that. So then we'd keep all the poems were head. And then we go up to Northern Minnesota. Maybe we'd get a bottle of whiskey or something and send all the poems for the whole month back in one night and bail was a genius at these rejection slips. He'd say things like damn is a Jonesy's poems remind me of false. Teeth yours sincerely. Him Daphne or dear. Mr. Jones. These poems are a little like lettuce that's been left too long in the refrigerator. And then we get insulting letters back and we print the letters because they had more excitement and energy and I'm than the
(00:08:05) poems with these poets. This must have been establishment poets who were not used to a rejection or be blunt
(00:08:14) language many of them were heads of Departments of universities. And of course, it irritated them to no end. And many of them were some beat poets who thought maybe they could get some beat poetry into the magazine. That is a wonderful detail was
(00:08:32) just going to say now you guys were trying to sort of do a middle exactly
(00:08:36) right between the academic and one side and two beats on the other
(00:08:39) night, isn't it? But the beats are so fashionable even
(00:08:42) today. Oh, yeah, they still are but I remember a mihrab araki. He was called Leroy Jones in and Jim Rice had done a poem. Describing taking a bus in Ohio. And then he says I saw the farmer his his his Scarlet face apologetic with risky though, the barn doors open and called a hundred white and black holsteins from the Cloverfield. So most of the poets who are Beatrice City parts.