A Mainstreet Radio special broadcast from Detroit Lakes. Program highlights the debate over recreational jet skis on the lakes. Rachel Reabe interviews Jim Madima, president of Jet Supporters Association of Minnesota; Dennis Lang of the DNR; and Kris Hasskamp, Minnesota State representative, discuss the controversary over personal watercraft use. Madima, Lang and Hasskamp also answers listener questions.
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NPR's Main Street radio coverage of Royal issues is supported by the blandin foundation committed to strengthening communities through grant-making leadership training and convening. We invite you to visit the Main Street website go to www.mpr.org where you can hear today's program at your convenience as well as other Main Street reports the address again www.mpr.org.Good afternoon, and welcome to the special Main Street radio show. We're broadcasting live from the grounds of we Fest the Country Music Festival held every August outside Detroit Lakes. I'm Rachel reabe the crowd here, which was swelled of 40,000 people before the weekend is over comes North for the camping and Concert Experience, but Detroit Lakes has long been a tourist destination people travel North for the peace and quiet of the water and woods fisherman canoeist and water skiers have coexisted on these Lakes for decades. But the latest arrival in the water has caused a bit of a stir personal watercraft represent just 3% of Minnesota both but lately they seem to attract most of the attention. I guess this afternoon are Jim madima present of the Jets Porter's Association of Minnesota conservation officer, Dennis Lang with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and representative. Chris hasskamp who worked in the legislature last year to restrict the use of personal watercraft welcomed all of you.Are phone lines are open for your calls this afternoon one 800-537-5252. We'd be interested in hearing from our listeners what their experience has been with personal watercraft. Have we been too tough on them or not Tough Enough? Call us at one. 800-537-5252 Jim edema. Let's start the show by you telling us. What's the best thing about personal watercraft? Why are you so crazy about them there about the funniest thing on the water is one of those things where in the in the same way that a lot of people don't like to ride motorcycles snowmobiles bicycles rather than sitting in a car with the windows up in the air conditioner running. It's one of those things you can get out and be in the environment and enjoy it while you're getting wet very different from riding in a boat as far as experience is concerned because you are out in the water and splash around and having fun. And were you an early convert to personal watercraft were they around for?Before you jumped in they were actually in an order for just two-and-a-half 3 years and before that. I think I going out two times at the house and Company parties and and some fun inside time for me and got hooked in and haven't stopped. And it has Camp. Why do you think we need special rules and regulations for personal watercraft? I think it's because of the unique type of machine it is it's actually like I like Jim says a snowmobile on water. They advertise promote the versatility know the versatility of of maneuverability of that can go anywhere turn on a dime I can jump waves. So it's got a lot of the things that they lot of people that like Thrills. So it's like it's real machine. The problem is is that when it is so maneuverable when it does go so fast, and if you don't have people that know what they're doing on them, but they don't care what they do to other people or Wildlife or the environment then there's a class there. And in what we're trying to do is say, you know, if you're going to be in any type of public Lake that there are things that we have to coexist and everybody should have a chance to use the water and not be literally sort of scared off of it by machines that goes so far. Allison sort of intimidate a lot of the other Boats Lake users. You spend a lot of time in the last session of the legislature trying to put together something that would put some restrictions and some rules on personal watercraft sales. How successful you were well, I think we were very successful in really first of all doing the best thing we can do is raise the awareness the public awareness that there that there is a class they're going on and that we need to kind of live together and Coexist on the Lake Sand and be aware that there are other people who don't maybe appreciate some activities of certain voters. So we were very successful in a lot of public awareness people know now and I think Jets Porter's in general are more concerned that you know, there is a possibility of stricter regulations coming down the line if they don't start to be behave the laws more and be more courteous and responsible and so we did that but I also think we gave a little bit of time for the nun will say thrill type of Lake users those who like to canoe and those like to fish and and sale in rowboat so that they have time in the morning in the evening to be able to use it without that Unique Kind of a buzz droning thing that goes up and down all the time. So I think we're giving them a little piece and we're getting more distance away from other boats and and swimmers and docks and Shoreline and I think that's a real real benefit bus route for requiring special education for a young people which is really important. Supporters also claimed victory victory after the last legislative session gym. What were the things that that you felt you really made some points on victory victory. So we're keeping the the extreme operations that were introduced out of the bill and and given the extent to which they were extreme weed. And we had to work very hard because of the hype that surrounded it and how it was built up and and went on and on so we are successful in that. We we kept out most of the most egregious Provisions. However, we feel we were very very unsuccessful and we still don't have a mandatory education program and we still don't appear to have the full support of the state in educating everybody. That's that's going to be riding these machines and until that's done. We're quite positive that we're going to back year after year after year after year until that is in place in the same way that you know, you don't let somebody get on a motorcycle. They go 60 miles an hour 50 miles an hour 30 miles an hour without any training without education. We have to be working to educate the people who do ride personal watercraft so that when they do get on there when they do have their their relatives come over their friends or co-workers that we take care of that. We dress that problem by educating rather than you know, overstressing and already under people DNR and saying what you need to keep enforcing we need to decrease its enforcement when he's a thousands of dollars to support all this when they haven't got nearly enough folks to do the work that they already required to do our phone. Number one 800-537-5252. We would like you to call today and tell us about your experience with personal watercraft then let's let you speak for the Department of Natural Resources. How big of a problem What would you say personal watercraft? Are they become like the deleting complaint that we have from people on the water? So there's people are passionate for them if people are passionate against them. And they use us I think for for sounding and and clearly there are problems. Like you said already there a low percentage of the registered boats yet there a high percentage of of the accidents. So a lot of careless operation a lot of accidents involve them, you know the field we're pretty much new stroller our personal feelings on and Rihanna too much. It's just another thing that we do on a water when we're working on water. number jets creation. You told me Jim that's not even a year old yet. Correct. We are actually formed from two local writers clubs one of the Twin City area 1 in the Brainerd area and we're officially formed in November put together board of directors. So it's a very new organization in and of itself, but the work the people that have been involved with personal watercraft behind the scenes in a novel on the front lines. I have been involved in the phone number of years already. Well, you hit the ground running because then perhaps the future as you knew, it perhaps threatened or completely completely the threats that we're out there. Where were bizarre and how much did frightened everybody and I think one of the one of the biggest things that that I need to credit represent hasskamp for is raising the awareness Tim Smalley from the DNR said that so far this year both accident and complaints are down by more than 50% across the state and we cannot credit that to a new Edge education program in place. We cannot credit that to increase enforcement out on the water. The biggest thing that we we can credit that too is to the increased awareness which because of the the media hype in the whole Blitz and everything. It really take people's ears up and and I can't be happier that this happened but I wouldn't ask for it again. It kept a lot of people have a lot of sleepless nights and you have used words like outrageous unbelievable. And how restrictive the proposed legislation was what were the things that really got you that you felt were just totally out of line. There are number of them. But I start one that that you know kind of came around the back door for us was a three strikes you're out provision, which after it was brought to brought out in the light was promptly removed. But there was a three strikes you're out. There were a few got three citations for anything, you know, whether you had missing registration or you had got a nuisance citation or careless driving citation. You got three you lost your personal watercraft riding privileges for life. We don't even do that for hardened criminals in the state of Minnesota. We don't have that anywhere in the state and Reps and ask him spoke with us until you know, I thought that would be a good thing for you because that gets the the bad apples off the water and we agreed it that sort of thing about getting that Apple's off. The water is important, but but the way that it was stated and put together You know something like a nuisance complaint. We don't do that with cars if you drive erratically and somebody calls in the complaint three complaints and you lose your driving privileges for life. It's it's just not not there the 300 start as a 300-acre Lake Dam across the street and I think it moved to 200 200 acre Lake band which and we all agree that to an acre lake is very small Lake by comparison to most of the larger Lakes most people enjoy riding on but when you ban personal watercraft on a lake, although we would we're going to be blocking off more than 80% of the lakes in the state. So all the personal watercraft to be concentrated on 20% of the likes of this day and that's not only unfair to the people who live on those large lakes but $2 people who vote on them to swim in them all so you got a bad concentration which increases safety concerns when you've got that those additional machines on the water. Also takes away the opportunity for people who live on the smaller likes to enjoy the small lights with her personal watercraft teacher kids water ski bullet people behind inner tubes play. Well, I spent a lot of time at least two years looking at first while talking to people with experiences hearing from people that they were losing loons where where personal watercraft appeared on their small lakes. They were Loom counters for the DNR and they were noticing a direct relation between losing loons and there was a lot more people weren't going swimming out in their docs anymore because you know, it's not a lot of area and when you have a fast vehicle very maneuverable by the time they get up to full speed then I got to turn around. So there's a constant droning and it was anybody on those legs would actually actually almost be pushed over the emotional ads on almost water torture. Plus I was in the air and I saw that those who were operating them on and we're just going in circles. I mean there's nothing else to do but go in circles on such a small light. I'm a little late plus I found out that when you're dealing with the longer duration of operating a personal watercraft versus a tip of traditional boat is money more hours of of usage of that when I found out that about 30% of the fuel is literally lost into the water and some things like that. And then also the what the effect that these these machines had I'm going closer to shore getting closer into the weeds and possibly impacting loons and and other kind of wildlife Nassau began to be almost alarm at not protecting our small lakes now. I'm an avid snowmobiler. I've been on a lake so all my life, I love boating a love snowmobiling. I have a scooter. I loved him, you know scooter with my motorcycle around but you know, they're appropriate places for things. We have a trail system for snowmobiles and we don't let ATVs on public highways and why don't we find appropriate places and that's what I was trying to say. Let's find the larger lakes with a k. Handle more of this because when I went over on Gull Lake, I went over in the air with the DNR to Whitefish and and Mille Lacs Lake there's so much acreage that they could have a lot of fun out there. But why do they need to be on every single light? Can we Preserve at least our smallest? Like that was my thought? Are phone lines are open? The number one 800-537-5252. I'm Rachel reabe in this is a special Main Street broadcast from the we Fest grounds at Detroit Lakes. This hour we are talking about personal watercraft are guess Jim the demon from the Jets Porter's Association. Chris has cam from legislature and Dennis Lang for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Dennis. Let's talk a little bit about the impact on wildlife and the vegetation The Aquatic vegetation in the legs. Is that a great concern? Does that happen people chasing loons on personal watercraft? Does that happen with people in other boats? Well, the complaints of of them chasing Broods of abducts chasing loans are very common. I'd say several the week it just just for me and and does it happen with other other watercraft. I suppose it does but it doesn't generate the complaints and therefore I think it happens a lot more often with the jet-ski then I would have anything else. Why do you think that Dennis? I mean, why do you think it would be more common with personal watercraft? Cuz it's easier for them to get around and do that there closer to the water. I don't know something and in a lot of times, you know, when you're in a boat, there's two or three minds thinking at the same time when you're on a jet ski, generally, there's one person on it and and poor judgment if that person is using it will probably Prevail in the operation of it. It's just really common. I have also seen some things and and I don't know what the validity it'll probably be tested. But I'm smaller legs when when you get a lot of operation in there and they're restricted to a lot of area. You're you're turning water more and you may be changing the thermocline and and the temperature of the water got deeper levels. You may be true changing oxygen content. Therefore you may be in fact and Wildlife such as fish and and aquatic plants and of course that's part of the ecosystem and and everything starts out in a water Weatherby microbiology and goes on up from there. So we don't know what all the problems are. I don't think Jim how would you respond to that? Do you agree that it could be a serious environmental problem with the gas emissions into the lake and the chasing of the wildlife or don't you see that is the major problem. I see any any chasing Wildlife is is an incredible and awful behavior that has to be addressed. I don't care who's doing it. If that is as frequent Sterling here says then then we need to be addressing that I don't know if the problems that are being proposed by Pyrex in the past Camp though are the best way to solve that problem regarding the fuel that leaves the engine unburned. The correct sentence is 25% and it's a well-publicized percentage. And some of the junk scientists out there who are or a building this hype are saying this like, you know dumping gasoline raw right into the water and that junk science is absolutely and scientifically incorrect in at the gas. That does pass through a 2-stroke engine. That does not get burned exocet engine at a temperature of several hundred degrees and they've done underwater video studies and they found that it doesn't mix with the water in the way that you would think that a word that follows in the narrow Trail and because it's so hot it evaporates. It goes to the top immediately and evaporates if the the dangers were as Extreme as as the Spin Doctors are our purporting then we would have incredible levels of toxicity in lakes and reservoirs and rivers across the country around the world because of personal watercraft. The other thing is not being pointed out here. Is that personal watercraft being single out here because they operate on 2 stroke Motors but hasn't been pointed out is that their 725,000 other register to vote in the state of Minnesota of which a great majority them operate on 2 stroke Motors. So if you're going to take personal watercraft just say well you're polluting here. Because you got a two stroke motor you've also got to talk to all the fishermen and all the people who operate speed boats and pontoon boats and just say I'm sorry, you got to get your machine out of what in California is dealing with this right now because of the fuel additive that they put in their gas for automobile engines that is is being unhealthy for the water environment out there. We're going to go to standing by First Step Paul from Two Harbors. Good afternoon, Paul. Vario that happens here on Lake Superior where I live You can be out in the yard on the beach and hear this buzzing sound coming from somewhere. You can't see a vehicle out on a lake anywhere and about five minutes later. You can see a little. Coming at you and where I live is in a bay and it seems to be a area that they seem to come to and like the buzz around right in front of yard, you know, and it's pretty darn of noxious is the noise that they make if anything, I think the technology of these things needs to be changed as far as noise goes in with the pollution that you've been talking about what Chris was saying about the the Lakes finding certain Lakes to do this and I thought was very appropriate even on the bigger Lakes. I think there should be an area that They're allowed to be inside of that way people nowhere to stay out of and what not. But as far as getting the noise down would be a big plus I think. You know, I want to just add your Rachel that I did receive a letter from the CEOs of Arctic Cat and thankful arastoo that you know again, my my goal was to raise awareness it to get in make changes in Behavior or whatever and then noise obviously can push anybody over the emotional Edge when you have to listen to that fluctuating drone, but they said that they're working right now and Technologies not only to reduce the decibels, but reduce the buzz the the picture of it and I'm really anxious to to hear some of those machines and but I just wanted to add to it something that was Jim was saying, you know, when you talk about loons and you and you talk about traditional ball to takes a long time to turn those things and so you really can't do a lot of chasing you can kind of go after but loons and others have learned to get out of the way now the luniz unique on a little late because of who needs a long way to sort of almost like a Runway that's to take off. They can't jump up like a duck can and so they're much more vulnerable and when you Maneuverability of a personal watercraft one around and around that sounds like a recipe for disaster. So that's part of the reason. I don't know why it's so hard for people to the sort of think that well first when I talk to Jim about 200 a curb and he said that that's why we don't go on him anyway, and then when he found out there was like 80% of our Lakes even though we know we brag about our 10,000 + Lakes then all the sudden his position in the groups changed. I don't know why we can't just say there's appropriate places just like we have stock car. He knows the places where we want to go and hit demolition derbies. There's appropriate places for all kinds of activities and fun. We just hear this caller from Lake Superior. That's a big body of water but still find it to be annoying for them. And and if you look at around the country and of course, I've get materials from all over the world. There are many they have to be out five hundred feet on some of the shorelines in California, Florida starting to do some really major ones there. They're having a real problem with the safety. So, you know, I'm trying to look ahead. That's why I was trying to do I was trying to solve the problem. We have a DNR officer here. Maybe they've got through two or three in an area. We got maybe five Sheriff by water patrollers and yet we have in my district alone 450 Lakes. There's no way that we can control that and that's why I tried to put a Citizens civil penalty on it. First of all get out of Criminal Court to give that option so you can find them and maybe deter them from future problems. But I also wanted to Citizens like we do for trespass or littering to be able to sign a sworn statement under oath that this particular event occurred on a personal watercraft and then have that dealt with so that we could deter the bad operators and people like Jim who operate responsively can can feel good back on the waters. We've got from Minneapolis on the phone. Good afternoon, Scott and cuyuna and spend a lot of time on East Boulder. Rabbit Lake and Klinger Lake and Lake such as those in my biggest concern with with these people getting crazy on him and coming near fisherman and chasing us off of lake is how to enforce it. I mean obviously can't chase everybody down and arrest everybody for this and that was my biggest question is with all the lakes in that District up. They're going to enforce this and how do we take care of it? I'll answer or hang up and listen. Thanks. You know one thing about that as an enforcement officer. We got a 150-foot you no limit that there were dealing with and it becomes our judgment and sometimes those things are very hard to to the judge and sold typically any Enforcement Officers going to take the safe side of it. So when we say 150 ft we're probably not going to do anything till it's within a hundred or within 75 ft because that's a little bit it's a safe side. So when we go to the court if it would come in and like Chris said these are criminal penalties. Now if we had civil it probably wouldn't be that way but we go to court in and conceivably could have to to convince a jury that this actually happened in the defense is going to be he was 151 ft from the dock or from from the swimmer after from the Ward watercraft or whatever it is. So when you do That the officers automatically going to build in some kind of a A system that we can operate when saw a hundred fifty feet. Is difficult for us to know that do we need forcement piece is first of all, we don't have enough officers. I don't know why the way it is for all boats, whether or not personal watercraft ever invented anymore people out there enforcement route is the most difficult most expensive most onerous process of going about this. It's wanted to know are you going to build a solid like are you going to build a deck with holes in it? And then have people run around 6 or fingers in the holes. You've got to be getting people educate on the front side as a preventative measure rather than wait until We're out there. And again until people are educated and they've been told in very clear terms from people who are enthusiastic cells even that this is what the lies. This is what the situation is yours Burgers where to go with it interest areas, like Detroit Lakes a significant number of personal watercraft on the lakes are not being operated by their owners instead their rental boats. Usually driven by jet ski novices are Main Street reporter. Dan Gunderson is at a resort on Detroit Lakes just a few miles north of us. That's a resort that rent jet skis and Dan are you sitting on a jet ski right now? That's right Rachel. I'm actually getting instructions right now from Larry Winterfell. He runs Fairyland Cottages in the rental here on Detroit Lakes and even renting a personal watercraft for a couple of years now and he's just running to the instructions telling me how to run one of these things. Safely Larry how much safety instructions do you give to people before you let them out on the water? Under contract by time. We get him out of water the whole process probably take about 10 to 15 minutes. We basically we go over a couple of million things one else to do it the law to where you can and can't ride and how you can damage your machine rest within pertains to the safety factors out of War II machine what to do. If your machine doesn't run while you're out there the rest would have to do at the general operations fact, there's no breaks when you go into a turn that you need to keep the throttle going up the most common way people tip over. Call State Farm these machines in your estimation. You rent them to a wide variety of people. I'm assuming many don't have any experience that you consider these to be safe and free person machines are most popular machine is a three-person machine in general. Most of the people that we get have not ridden before we send to people out on these. This is like being on a boat. They can change drivers. They could go fishing off of this then you could hit a rock and load all day with the engine compartment for water. I'm done this type of machine that much different from machines at first came out years and years ago the past couple of years because a lot of people live around Lake from him fishing lakes in Minnesota. Don't like them. Do you see a lot of inappropriate use of personal watercraft? And how careful do you have to be in determining who you're going to rent them to but that's up to the individual operator. I mean, we do a pretty thorough job around a City Beach here. So we get a lot of exposure. We personally carry a million dollars and insurance and insurance companies have been Different ways of making these things safe. They're talking about such things as instructional videos next urine test actually before you can take them out on on rental cracking down and turn the other people are cracking down on its really no place left in the county that still runs. These most places don't want to deal with the extra paperwork. They don't know by the bigger machines and I want to spend the money, you know into it a lot of places used to just open up with a jet ski in late start run them anywhere. They are uninsured machine doesn't cost a lot we can do it basically cuz it's not only business. We rent boats and fishing boats and pontoons and Water by equipment are the Jets game. Do you ever have to turn people away? Do you have people who may be intoxicated or people who may just not be willing to follow the rules all the time that affect one of the things we put in our contract so that we can call you from your jet ski rental, if we see all they're violating most commonly, it's just educating parents that come up let him think that their children can drive at any age and that's been a big watching. So this year it's been a lot of Education. We probably turn away. 25% of the people that said come up for that reason they're looking for their their children to go out and ride them in these machines move 55 miles an hour to 70 miles an hour now, they're not appropriate for someone to be intoxicated while they're out there on these machines since you have to watch that to fly the service for my guess. It's the laws are unfair that they don't treat them in equal terms. For example, I can go up by speed boats next year put them on the water and I don't have to deal with any of the paperwork. I don't have to pay the additional Insurance in these people can don't have to obey the same laws jet ski who's going to get more likely to get hurt to get questioned. If you drive a little speedboat the same as these jet skis and you're just as likely to get hurt. I think a lot of it has to do it with just the instructions. Agencies I think do an excellent job. Like I think people that own their own machines do an excellent job of I think the problem comes from the people that loan out there machine. They give them to the next person that gave no instructions these people take most think they're replaced by Machines of change the penny thing instead of accidents going down to probably going to go out to be a lot more horsepower on these machines and there's probably less education education given by the people that on anybody and let anyone Drive their jet ski, but they won't let him use their own car. Okay, Larry. You think I'm ready to go. We must we went over everything all the basics. All I got to do is just get your push down here a little bit for your deep enough. And we just have to get this green button right here. All right Rachael back to you and I'm going to head out and check one of these personal watercraft out here on Detroit Lake. Thank you, Dad. We are continuing our conversation on personal watercraft with Dennis Lange of the Department of Natural Resources. Jim edema president the Jets Porter's Association of Minnesota and representative. Chris haskap. Our show is coming to you live from we Fest the largest country music camping Festival in the country just outside of Detroit Lakes at our phone lines are open for your questions and comments about personal watercraft today one 800-537-5252. We're going up to Bemidji now where Pete is on the line. Good afternoon Pete there in Des saying that he had to be sure that the about the actual wrongdoing of The Craft by going from 150 down to as low as 75 feet. Well, I hate it. Normally DNR people don't have to wait to go check freezers out in a house for too many fish are they don't have to worry about going into Checking if there's a wild game law break down and I think that it's time that like we have four of them or five of them next door to us here and they literally drive us nuts. And by the time the DNR gets here, they're gone. And are there there. And we're getting the point here where it's getting really really annoying. I mean on a small Lake we're not on the real big lake and it's a narrow Long Lake. And is there there a real problem and they're annoying everybody up and down the lake and I just can't I think it's time to get serious with this thing and I don't care what anybody says, it's unfair that they're getting treated wrong. Well, it's time to realize that so is there not for chasing loans or for disturbing people to fish you sit out in your boat all day you try and fish and you got the waves up but down enough until you're constantly harassed by them and that gets to be that hot dog in business or driving around in circles. That's none. I think it's time that the dock on will get it straightened and give him a place where they can run like they do snowmobiles and give them certain places. They can run around in and leave the rest of us. We don't like it. We don't like that noise either. Interesting. How would you respond to that Dennis? This guy? Sounds like he's near the breaking point. Do you talk to a lot of people for at that point where they have just had it they need to keep talking to us when we get several complaints but the you know, the more complaints or get from a certain area the more we're going to be right there and we need to we need to get some kind of a method of operation. Probably, you know, are they usually there are weekends is it Sundays and Saturdays? I really can't cite them unless you catch him in the act right and it's difficult to do anything other than catch him in the act and then we have to be kind of position where we can judge that that distance if I'm out for 500 yards in in the lake and I see somebody unless I actually see him Splash somebody on the dock. I can't really tell how far they were the thing to do is just keep talking to us in the sheriff's office is paid by DNR to go out to boiling water safety things talk to them too. But keep in touch with us and then sooner or later we're going to crash. Problem. If not by Education buy buy buy a ticket though. I think what's really important is this is a real problem we have lakes at there's no way that there could be enforcement on with traditional methods. That's why I really wanted the Citizen's complaint. It works beautifully for for littering problems because before you know, who is going to see somebody litter except for somebody witnessing it it works wonderful is for trespass and why can't we give the citizens that opportunity cuz it's this caller is frustrated. I don't believe I'm hearing from hundreds and hundreds of these people and they don't think the lies there for them because they know that they officers can never get there in time. They can never witnessed the up the people on the lake. They know they're like, they know how far out a hundred fifty feet is and by the way, the reason I was started at 200 feet for the setback and waiting awake was because I knew that that that's a hundred feet. They weren't even they were very few prosecutions on it. And I want at least get him out a hundred feet away for safety. So I think the frustration is still with the large amount. Lakes and that's one of the reasons I wanted to go to the 200-acre van to reduce the amount of lakes that have to cover because right now we're finding more people going to the little legs cuz they know they can't be enforced there. So this this is why I did the bill the way I did it trying to deal with the entire problem. I think is a point to point out that the Jets for Association and and nobody that I've talked with it that cares really I'm his ever said that the kind of behavior this caller has experience is appropriate is okay. If it's awful it's not fair. It's not right. It's not good. The people that are that are riding that way on their Lake on this this this gentleman shouldn't have to put up with it. That's the sort of thing that has to be addressed onto Playing Fields. The first one is technology and we can spend more time talking about that. But the other thing is the behavior if there are five skis next door. Is there a parent involved are these all young people are they are older people have they ever been in? Heated they even know what the laws are and in this sort of thing about let's talk about courtesy here. Yeah, you've got a hundred fifty foot. No wake zone between you and show or another about something. I don't care what the hundred fifty foot rule says if there's a fisherman out there. Give him as much space as you, you know can scoop where the other side of like and what kind of oil people people need to be educated and taught, you know, it's important when you're out riding with your family or even when you've rented a machine, right? It didn't give it a break but I think they're not all like Jim. I am glad that there's people like gym operating Curtis Lee and I hear from them. I hear from people who supported my bill that were jets quarters and say they go out 500 feet. They only go between noon and 4. I mean there's a lot of wonderful responsible curious people, but when you have the industry marketing all this Thrill Ride and it's creating a height where you got people jumping the way to God, I'm going fast your marketing the people who made want the thrill and not remember not realize there's people that are being affected by what you're doing. So that's what's kind of hard here is this is a unique vehicle. It's like getting the four-wheeler in the early days to go romping through the woods without any care and now Unfortunately the other people in a lake or are having problems because of that. Let's talk about the education efforts videos were actually sent to All personal watercraft owners in the state of Minnesota. They're also big effort wasn't there Dennis with public service announcements to try to get people to listen and to act responsibly fact, we have one of those Public Service Announcement. So take a listen to that right now. Personal watercraft sometimes called jet skis can be a lot of fun when you was responsibly. This is DNR conservation officer James Loftus personal watercraft and I'll have to stay at a slow no-wake speed within a hundred fifty feet of Shoreline docks swimmers swimming wraps and more than anchor bolts and a personal watercraft rule sticker must be displayed in full view of the operator for a copy of the new personal watercraft laws call the DNR at 1888 m i n n d n r When we assume that those have been effective Dennis if we have seen a 50% drop in complaints that they probably really does a lot of good work. Let it go to work on that and they get bigger toward small over the country. So if we're kind of a leader in in the education think it back that's kind of the philosophy of up DNR educate on Detroit Lake 10 minutes ago saying from the guy who was renting a thing about 10 minutes of instruction, including the paperwork, you're gone. I think Minnesota has the words of Minnesota. The DNR has received has been on the materials that they produce which have an outstanding, but as far as the actual education, the only stuff that education is out. There is a packet that goes out in the mail to the young people and then figure out this is the first time I've heard any public service announcement from personal watercraft by the DNR. Add to that Rachel that part of the Ville we did pass was the $50 for 3 years surcharge extra for personal watercraft operators. That would go after the DNR have to the County's and then a part of that money would have to be used for that educational purposes. And that was our goal to not only upgrade enforcement but also to educate so we did succeed in that but unfortunately we couldn't pass the operator permit which gym and I've always agreed on and we're going to have to go back and look at that and try to get a little more education than 10 minutes and I don't know how you can retain a lot and I spent two years and I know the law pretty well, but that's 2 years versus 10 minutes will find out from Dan Gunderson later. How about 10 minutes? Did am now we go to the phone's Carla from Lang be good afternoon. Yes. Yeah height my son got a violation hear a warning of a violation operating during restricted hours on Langley Lake. Yes, what do you call a jet? Ski and what are the restricted hours? Well, they're not allowed to operate before 9:30 in the morning and then they have to put them away before 1 hour before Sunset and we did that's the correct lie. And in the reason did he got a warning is because we're taking a very soft enforcement approach for trying to educate this year and and it could be in the future that it did it for us will become a little tougher bet. That's what that's what our department decide to do this year because the law was new so it sounds like he just got a warning and is probably appropriate. I got a quick question. Now your son obviously was on a machine. I'm not sure if it was his machine but there was supposed to be on the machine right by now. I guess the DNR that was watching said that my son wasn't doing anything wrong and they couldn't understand why the collar called in. Well, if he's out past the hour before Sunset then it is breaking the law. Well, if the sunset was 9:20 or earlier in his state is 804 at least at the Twin City area or so the latest somebody can ride. Is it to choose 804? And that's for 6 weeks. Let's move ahead with our questions and our colors are lines are full we go now to Allen in Minneapolis. Good afternoon, Allen Facebook. It's like this week for different things at safety pollution noise. And then and then there's one more the safety issue mean I don't think anybody tried to reply Jesse was I doing my best friend to both safely don't drink while we're doing it. We wouldn't have vacated but if enough for no reason to argue that may be getting them on different legs is a good idea. But as far as that the noise issue a kind of goes hand-in-hand with the safety. I guess I would say that, you know, the guy that called in that that couldn't deal with it to exercises social skills and talk to his neighbors and let them know that if you can't talk to your neighbors and help them understand then and have to call the cops and you have a problem and then the other thing is pollution. I just talked about earlier with it with the unused fuel fuel being dumped in Lake and we still have one space shuttle to the first satellite in space. We can all watch TV comfortably that's that's far more pollution than any amount of justice has ever been in any other thing is is real action. Basically, it's simple math people that are young can afford Jesse people that are older than have my money before the speed boats and pontoons and the person there that she was my woman. That's why she she knows that if she backs the older people that are against jet skis because all people don't drive yet to respond to that part of the question and I've heard that said that these restrictions are discriminatory because people who can't afford a 17 foot crafts, they can get a jet ski they can get in at what $5,000 j7 rate. For the grandkids for their children and and almost everybody that I know and you can go around the lake and see what's park in front of a house. But almost everybody that has a jet ski that I see at least on the lake has at least one other watercraft but there's a lot of older people that are now starting to use jet skis in the use and pretty responsive like for Minneapolis is on the line that afternoon Craig I've got a place in Wisconsin. We've got a ski boat a Waverunner and a fishing boat in our lake has a no-wake rules that are in effect from 6:30 p.m. Until 10 in the morning. And you know, it's wonderful to get up and get out there at 10 and water-ski when the water is nice and by mid-afternoon and it's choppy. I'll get out of the Waverunner and at 6:30 when the no-wake rules and Forest then you can get out there and fish. I mean it's amazing the change in the water and the change in the just the overall environment. Is there any way to all boats that's where all votes? Yes. It's it's 6:30 p.m. To 10 a.m. No wake and you know, yeah you miss some nice water. But if you're a fisherman is wonderful, and you know it believe me at 6:30 p.m. It's like flipping a switch on that Lake things just quiet down. You can sit on your Dock and you can you know, enjoy the beach, but I just wondering if there's any way to do that on more than I A lake by lake bass is this is a pretty good size Lake. It's a You Know Two Mile Lake and you know, there are boats that you know, bigger boats that have like through the whole exhaust that are more noisy and obnoxious and some of the jet skis, but it's just amazing. What a no-wake rule will do if you could enforce it on a Statewide basis and you know, whether it's for you no personal watercraft in general. I don't know if that's possible, but it's an option. Well, you know, I looked at that out that possibility of doing a no-wake. I think I had that originally matter fact. My my first language of the bill said that a bad time they would go to slow no-wake. So I said well somebody's trying to come back or somebody just out for a little tour like they use another little maybe a pontoon ride or something and they're on a jet ski that they could stay out it without causing A disruption, but the Jets for his another said well, we might as well be on them, you know, he can't run. You can ride your bicycle, but you can only ride fast enough so that you don't tip over but no faster than that. It's something about the what the caller said about. You know, let's make this a blank until 6:30 p.m. For the state or for any County or whatever. You're not at all. Do you know how many people work during the week you and how many people don't even get home till five 5:36, so that would be described that would take 5 days out of seven days a week out and then Mother Nature kids soccer travelling vacations all that and we just heard it doesn't rain or on Saturday. It does Rocky and Woodbury, you're on the air with us. Go ahead. Please believe that I've invented a solution to this problem you go Rocky. All right. I've invented a device that could be easily fit it or retrofitted any jet ski and then putting buoys or rented or sold two fishermen or other boaters who don't want jet skis near them that would just cut the throttle to an idol with a very limited distance radio transmitter. And I was wondering if anybody out there would like to support me on finishing inventing them. About this will solve some problems. Well, if you get what he's talking about, I think I do but I will I'd want him to call me so I can talk to him and see what the concept is and its wavelength that keeps away the past. I don't know. I don't think Jim. I think it's a great idea if it's applied to all boats. I mean if you're going to do something that will cut a throttle. When did make sense do that for all boat so that you can without you know, our good friends at the DNR having to be there to witness and enforce and all that will just install this technology around the shore is on the lake and around islands and things and I have a cut the motor that has a lot of things that have to be talked about cuz I mean we're trying to just I've been trying to be believe it or not. Not what Jim thinks but I've been really trying to be a moderate. I'm trying to do the minimal things we need to do to have to reduce the Water Rage and I really feel that if we don't I mean this is sweet. Road rage now we have why I really believe and I'm glad 50% complain cerrar reduce this year that are all the hype and all my theatrics in the legislature. I did it on purpose to get the awareness out there because otherwise if it was just the industry lobbying and if a capital I couldn't have made any Headway. So what are they? This is we've got it. We've got to get the people to say let's go exist here and respect that there's a canoeist that want some peace and quiet to know about raising the age of operators for personal watercraft you Jim support in your group supports raising it to 64 years and house conference committee in the environment bill. So I lost a 16-1 and the operator permit, which is very two important things that I don't know why I don't know who is Lobby not get you I'm surprised you would support that and that you wouldn't say then that should apply to all boats. I love my children. But even when my son's turn 13 years old there going to be in 7th grade and I'm not going to be putting them on a on any machine that can go 50 miles an hour. There's just something about that age. We have to turn across the country that you have to be 16 years old to drive a car because it's operating in a public place the potential for danger and and death and all sorts of bad things grow substantially when you've got a lot of people out of the water and with boating increasing popularity as significantly is it has the last several years you are operating in a public place that is much more busy than it was 10 15 years ago, and I don't want to put them at risk and I don't want to put other folders at risk as well for something that the 7th grader may just not Scary seventh-grader wristlet stop quickly in our last minute about where do you go from here? Is this next session? Will it be more of the same you coming back? Well, first of all, I I do want to get the more of a snapshot view of the whole things are going and it's under encouraged by what what's been happening, but I do want to look at what was Jim and I did support was the operator permit and some course requirements for those people who have just are using them borrowing them renting them or I just buying them. We need to get those more training and more education. Plus. I do want to go back for the sixteen-year-old a minimum age. Other than that. I do want to work on making it a civil penalty to give more options to the to the enforcement folks and I do want to look at the citizen complaint. I mean, I really believe people need to have some law on their legs as well in the end. They work well with water Patrol, so it wouldn't be a vigilantism. I really don't believe it would be that and Jim about a future for us is is pushing as we have pushed for the last 3 years. Education education education. The other thing is that we're very concerned that the laws that anti person watercraft people want to put in our being put in Stones when they should be if anything written in chalk because of the improvements in technology the noise reduction. There's already machine has been on the market for this entire summer Cuts Noise by half all the manufacturers been working on it and I'm respecting someone else additional announcements this fall the pollution. The new machines that are out there new technologies are Way Beyond the 2006 EPA standards are cutting by 80% of time during the special Main Street broadcast. We've been talking to representative Chris hasskamp Jim edema present of the Jets borders Association of Minnesota and Dennis Lane with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. Thank you all for joining the special Main Street radio broadcast is a production of Minnesota Public Radio are Engineers are records in ski and Steve Griffith on location. Randy Johnson in St. Paul are produced. Sarah Meyer executive producer Mel Summerfield producer Dan Gunderson would also like to thank Jeff Krieger and his staff for making this a we Fest broadcast possible. We invite you to visit the Main Street web site go to www.mpr.org. You'll be able to hear this program as well as other Main Street reports. The address again is www.mpr.org and click on Main Street. NPR's Main Street radio coverage of Royal issues is supported by the blandin foundation committed to strengthening communities through grant-making leadership training and convening Minnesota public radio's Main Street team is life. Anger. Dan Gunderson, Mark style and myself Rachel reabe. It's your last chance to join Minnesota Public Radio on a 10-day Journey Through the Street Markets and cafes of Prague Vienna and Budapest October 21st through November 1st reserve your seat today. Call 612-290-1212. You're listening to me. radio its 6 k n o w FM 91.1 Minneapolis Twin Cities weather today calls for scattered showers a high of 80° a 40% chance of rain tonight with temperatures dropping to 62 and for Saturday Skies clearing off by afternoon high of 83 degrees current temperature 69.