It is now 7 minutes after 12 noon. Welcome back to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. Gary acting is away this week. I'm 3 finale. When the years following the presidency of Ronald Reagan many pundits and political observers point out how much better off America seems these days. The Cold War is Over the economy is in the best shape and decades and many Americans are enjoying a peaceful and prosperous life in the 1990s. Today's midday speaker says, this is the Reagan Legacy Dinesh D'Souza with senior domestic policy analyst in the Reagan White House and he has written a new book titled Ronald Reagan how an ordinary Man became an extraordinary leader. This is us as Reagan's unconventional approach to leadership in his self-deprecating sense of humor made him. One of the greatest leaders. Our nation has ever seen the next D'Souza was in the Twin Cities earlier this year to speak in a forum sponsored by the center of the American experiment. I have just stopped running this morning from Washington where the debates over the Clinton scandals are continuing to Royal the capital city. I don't know if one can compare. President Clinton with President Reagan in any direct way I might suffice to begin with the comment that the colonists PJ O'Rourke made some time ago. He said we are becoming very nostalgic for the days when sleeping with the president man going to a cabinet meeting. Hi, hi. Hi. Hi. I must say I'm especially delighted to see my my document colleagues here in the audience. I regret that when I was an undergraduate. I was a little bit of a thorn in the side of the College administration. Now we used to tell the dean's at Dartmouth that taking on our Renegade campus newspaper. The Dartmouth review was a bit like wrestling with a pig not only did it get everyone dirty, but the pig liked it. aisle I think what to me is particularly interesting and perhaps amusing about the debate surrounding the the Clinton scandals is the conventional wisdom that we read about every day. But in effect says the scandals of themselves a peripheral and perhaps unimportant because of the fundamental truth that Clinton has done a wonderful job in balancing the budget and restoring the health of the American economy. And if the premise were true the argument would be debatable or what I want to do today is to is to question the premise and to look at to what degree the current year of peace and prosperity can be attributed to the legacy of the eighties and other words if we look for example at the main elements of today's Shining Moment, we look for example at The Taming of inflation or the Revival of economic growth or the beginning of the end of the Cold War or the opening up of World Markets or the technological Revolution. If we look at all these elements, we see that in every case the Turning Point the pivotal moment was really not in the 90s, but but it was in the 80s. And so what we have to ask is did the implausible man who sat in the saddle in those years namely Reagan. Did he have a shaping hand in these large and even momentous events? In a sense, I would say that I've decided to write about Reagan Ten Years. After was serving as a sort of low-level officer in the Reagan Administration. I decided to write about Reagan for for two reasons. The first is that why Reagan was President? He was immensely popular elected and re-elected in the landslide. He left office in 89 the most popular president in the second half of the twentieth century, but since he left there has been a quite sophisticated and systematic attempt mainly on the part of the intellectuals the pundits and in the media to blacken the Reagan Legacy to say that the 80s were defined by a kind of Aurora of greed and selfishness to say that Reagan's main Legacy or chief and flies to leave ice Poseidon lost with these horrendous deficits to argue that the Soviet Union collapsed not because of the policies of the Reagan Administration. Innocence by implosion of of its own weight and I felt it all these propositions are dubious and history will record them as such and yet I felt that while history might give Reagan credit do credit it's important for him to get at least some of that credit some of that recognition during his lifetime. So that that is the first reason for wanting to write about Reagan to make the argument. Now, the second reason for writing about Reagan is that since Reagan left there have been on both sides of the political aisle and number of would be Reagan's his anointed successor Bush Dole Gingrich are the Republican Presidential hopefuls Clinton is on some days. I kind of masquerading reaganite None of these would be Reagan's has been to date successful and replicating Reagan's achievements are they have not been as successful as Reagan in transforming the landscape of America and the world have the question is why why have the ideological progeny the children of Reagan not been able to quite replicate his success. I begin with a bit of a mystery about Reagan, which is this although there has been as I mentioned a moment ago a an attack on the Reagan years and attack on the Reagan Legacy there has oddly been very little of a corresponding defensive Reagan on the part of the people who are alongside Reagan who you would expect to rush to his side. In other words Reagan's loyal his ideological allies. The people who worked in the Reagan white house where they have not made a strong and consistent a defense of Reagan. In fact, if you think about the Memoirs that have come out of the Reagan Administration for the most part budget director David Stockman Chief of Staff Don Regan top aide Michael Deaver former Secretary of State Alexander Haig many of these Memoirs have strangely been very critical of Reagan. In fact, they have tended to agree or support the criticism. Reagan's ideological enemies and so I begin by by saying that we should understand why even Reagan's own allies have been a little shy to rush to his defense. I think one reason for this is that Regan is by any conventional or even classical standard a most implausible leader a most unusual unconventional leader. His main profession before he went into politics was that he was a movie actor. He was said to be even as president somewhat detached from the everyday business of government. He was accused by his critics of taking an occasional afternoon nap. He was not a scholar or an intellectual in the conventional sense. In fact Peggy Noonan one of his star speech writers who who loves Reagan Peggy says that Reagan is proof that the unexamined life is worth living and Benderson thing about Reagan. However, is that even though his critics and even his allies said some very tough and perhaps even hurtful things about him. They said that he was ignorant. They said he was unqualified. They said he was asleep at the wheel most normal people confronted by these kinds of accusations would become very wounded very defensive will try very hard to prove the accusations false in some ways that you can say that poor. Dan Quayle is spent the better part of ten years trying to rebut the media portrait of him Reagan astonishingly enough never did this made no efforts to invalidate these accusations. In fact in many cases egg them on encourage them a regular course famously said once he said, you know, they tell me that hard work never killed anyone but why take the chance and Shortly shortly after Reagan was elected. He assembled a group of his staff his aides and he said to them I'm now president but I'm not familiar with the schedule the routines. What what time is my first meeting in the morning and they said well, so it sits at 7:30. It's the national security briefing. I guess they'll have to begin without me. I'll be showing up at 9. Add for 8 years he put in a conventional sort of 926 Day at the Office taking home a usually a slender folder of work to read back in the residence. He he went to Eureka College his alma mater in the mid-eighties while while he was president and he was accosted by a reporter who said to him seeking Tamara Simpson. Mr. President, isn't it? True that you graduated from Eureka not exactly Princeton with a c average. Reagan said yes, and he said you know, I'm even now I wonder what I might have accomplished if I had studied harder. in some ways in some ways. I think the Paradox of Reagan is captured in a line that the former National Security advisor Robert MacFarlane once said to Secretary of State George Shultz, see what for Reagan for about a year and he said, you know, I don't understand Reagan at all. He knows so little but accomplishes so much and from the point of view of the pundits and the intellectuals. This was the Reagan mystery. How does a seemingly ordinary man achieve or have a hand in the extraordinary events of the 80s? I want to try to answer that question in a sense by defining the three elements that I think made Reagan particularly successful. How the first element is something that can be Loosely called a vision and eye vision. I mean this the ability to imagine the world differently than it is and this is an extremely rare quality. Most of us are captive to the issues of the day. If you went down to Washington today and interview people and said, what's the most important issue in America today? Most people would say while it's the Clinton scandal is so well, it's campaign Finance reform. In other words. It's very difficult to step outside the current and innocence develop a different kind of mental picture and say the country looks like this but I think it should look like that and I'm going to move resolutely in that direction. Will Reagan have this kind of moral imagination and the best example of it the most dramatic example of it is Reagan's view of Soviet communism. Now Reagan predicted many times in the early eighties that Soviet communism would collapse And would collapse soon. He went to the University of Notre Dame in 1981. And he said freedom and democracy will leave Soviet communism on the ash heap of History. He went to the British Parliament in 82 and said the same thing he repeated the same theme in a speech to the National Association of evangelicals in 1983. Now, why do I mention this because at the time there was complete agreement across the political Spectrum among liberals and conservatives Hawks and doves that the Soviet Empire was prominent that the Soviet regime was here to stay as far as I know is almost unique in the western world and saying repeatedly that there was a kind of fragility at the heart of Soviet communism. That would bring it down that freedom would be the Victor now in some ways. I've puzzled about how Reagan knew this I mean, how did Reagan know something about Sylvia? Communism that seemingly Alexander solzhenitsyn did not know in the mid-eighties Richard Nixon went to see Reagan and he said I I tried to engage Reagan in a serious discussion of Soviet strategy and Marxist theory. He says Reagan wasn't interested. He says Reagan sat me down and basically began to tell me jokes about lazy Soviet farmers who didn't feel like working and so on and and Nixon says he says since I was a little taken aback at this kind of flippant attitude on the part of the leader of the western world, And yet I want to argue today that ironically it was Reagan's jokes that contained in some ways a deeper insight into the nature of socialism the nature of Communism and all the learning treatises published across the political Spectrum not unique to him. He collected them from the Soviet people themselves to the Soviet Bureau of automobiles, and he wants to order a car. They tell him that sure he can he can do so, but he has to pay now and there is a 10-year wait. The man is a bit put off but agrees fills out the various forms of the various agencies pays his money and the Man in the agency says, okay. Why don't you come back in 10 years and pick up your car? And the man says morning or afternoon. the guy the guy in the agency says it's 10 years from now. What what difference can I make and the man says well be the plumber is coming in the morning and Hi. I mentioned this to I mention this to italicize the point that Reagan's jokes were really not they were not about the evil empire in Reagan's famous or inFAMOUS phrase. They were not actually about how Wicked communism is it all jokes were really all about how foolish it is to organize a large empire a large Economy based upon prescription or based upon command diplomacy in dealing with the fall of Communism in the collapse of the Berlin Wall. What I want to argue is it was not a conventional strategy of Simply standing tough against the Soviets rather Reagan was pursuing a two-step strategy which was counterintuitive and supported to my knowledge by no one either on the left or on the right. It was distinctly Reagan Zone. Let me try to explain it in this way in the first time 81 1981 85 Reagan was very tough against the Russians against the Soviets when the liberals or the doves were harshly critical of him. In fact, they said Reagan is taking the world closer to nuclear war. We're going to be one step closer to Holocaust you had the nuclear freeze movement. You probably remember here in America and in Europe scientists word. We're developing the concept of the Doomsday Clock which was you know, 3 seconds from midnight and so on. So the idea was Reagan's policy according to the left would lead to destruction. In my opinion 1983 was The crucial year of Reagan's and he Soviet strategy because in that your Reagan did for things first, he called the Soviet Union an evil empire. Now. This was at the at the time of Scandal why because the conventional view was the Soviets are a superpower. We are a superpower. They have nuclear weapons. We have nuclear weapons. We've got to sit down like adults and work it out. The weapons themselves pose a critical danger to mankind. Reagan took a different view his view was at the problem is not with the weapons at all. The problem is with the fundamental moral difference between the two systems. Basically, they're evil. How did you can transform the system in Reagan's view the problem of the weapons would become insignificant. So the evil empire speech. That was the first Reagan. African 83 second Reagan deployed Pershing and cruise missiles in Europe to counter the threat of the Soviet ss-20 s the intermediate-range nuclear missiles third the United States invaded Grenada a small country, but for the first time in the 20th century impact in history a communist country reverted back into the Democratic Camp before that. We had something called the Brezhnev Doctrine. Once the country goes communist. It remains communist. Grenada was a refutation of the Brezhnev Doctrine and forth SBI the Strategic Defense Initiative Reagan announces a plan a program a kind of Manhattan Project. If you will to shoot down incoming Soviet missiles a complete shift and US strategic policy. So in the first time the sum up Reagan was very much against the Russians when the dogs are the Liberals were critical but in the second term Reagan shift gears completely Reagan begins to become I'm very soft in dealing with the Soviets. He begins to support gorbachov. He begins to encourage lost notes and perestroika. He begins to pursue Arms Control treaty including the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty and at this time in the second term. The Hawks are the conservatives turn against Reagan and become very critical of him. Their argument is. Gorbachov is duping Reagan Gorbachev Navy seeming to sacrifice a pawn but he's got check made to move down the road in my book. I called William F Buckley. He says to Reagan for you to change your position on the Soviet Union is like us changing opposition on Hitler George Will quote Reagan has accelerated the moral disarmament of the west by elevating wishful thinking the status of political philosophy. So that was on the right a deep skepticism of Reagan seeming about face in dealing with the Soviets and yet in retrospect in retrospect we see Reagan played Gorbachev, like a fellow Reagan was tough when you needed to be and he was soft when you need it to be and as I said, this was I think a distinctive reggae approach a regen strategy. Even though in my view Reagan had a very important diplomatic and Henry Kissinger. No admirer of Reagan. Remember Reagan ran in 76 against Ford for the Republican nomination while being very harshly critical of Kissinger Kissinger in his recent book diplomacy says the dragons achievement Reagan's diplomacy in bringing about the end of the Soviet Empire is the greatest diplomatic feet in the second half of the twentieth century. And I think that history will will support that judgment yet. Reagan's own attitude was to take no credit for the collapse of Communism for the fall of the Berlin Wall. In fact Gorbachev came to Washington about almost exactly 10 years ago in 87 to sign of the INF treaty and Gorbachev. I remember was a media hero Time magazine named him. The man of the decade a Gorbachev would come out of his limousine and Shake people's hands. He was greeted enthusiastically Reagan was somewhat Sidelined and a reporter assault Reagan and said the president do you feel a little bit upstaged by gorbachov? Reagan said good Lord. No, you said I I once co-starred with Errol Flynn and in addition to Reagan's Vision a second a second critical element in my view of Reagan's leadership was his amazing willingness to go against what the poll said and what the elite said in Having the courage of his convictions and seeing his policies through I mention that because today if you look at Clinton, if you look at the Republican leadership, both groups are very much captive to Consultants two poles to focus groups and you tell us what the American people think so we can choreograph our position to bring it into line with public sentiment and in some ways that seems appropriate in a democracy where the leaders are supposed to reflect and and acting some ways the wisdom of the American people but Reagan took a different view Reagan's view which in some ways is sort of arrogant Reagan's view is that he embodied The good sense of the American people. I don't have to consult the American people. I am the American people with this confidence Reagan would act you would do something and then he would go on television. See my fellow Americans yesterday. I bombed Libya and he would say why he did it and he would ask people for their support So Reagan wanted popular support but not necessarily in advance of making a decision. Also Reagan the true test of a Statesman was willing to endure unpopularity and taking a difficult course in 1981 Reagan supported Paul volcker's very tough policy of squeezing the economy the money supply during inflation out of the economy and it was successful inflation went down but the country went into a deep recession in 82 unemployment when. Poverty went up, At one point, I remember Sam Donaldson AB ABC News confronted Reagan at a press conference. And he said, mr. President and talkin about the continuing recession tonight. You have blamed the mistakes of the past and you have blamed the Congress does any of the blame belongs to you? And Reagan said yes, he said because for many years I was a Democrat. and Anything about Reagan was I I mention this because Reagan used humor as a very potent political a weapon. It's particularly important in my view for conservatives because conservative politicians are inherently vulnerable to the charge of meanness. You guys are racists your warmongers. You want to throw people in the snow and so any humor is a way to undermine and dispel the fuse these kinds of accusations. If you look at say Reagan and compare him to a leader today like Gingrich Gingrich as many elements of Reagan. He is a Visionary is a tremendous speed but one thing he doesn't seem to have at least not yet is that reaganite sense of humor the large and inclusive and even self-deprecating sense of humor. That was a very trademark feature of of Reagan was indifferent to polls dick were Twin Dragons poster. I interviewed a number of people for the book and Dick Woodland said Reagan was very interested in But he was interested in polls not to modify his own position but to find out where the American people disagreed with him so he could go out and try to change their minds. In the 82 recession at one point worth when and Reagan were walking down the corridor of the White House in Portland said, mr. President. I don't like to tell you this but your popularity rating has sharply plummeted on Reagan looked a bit concerned and said, well Deca how bad is it and wurthmann said while it's it's down to about 40% And I he said Reagan kind of shook his head and said well dick. I I wonder if you could arrange for me to be shot again. in in the 82 in the 82 election, which was a difficult one for Republicans Reagan and the Republicans adopted the slogan stay the course. I mention this because a contrast quite dramatically with bushes President Bush's behavior in the recession of 91 now. Which is recession, if you will is a much milder recession and bushes strategy in dealing with it was basically to deny it he would say and in fact, we're not in a recession things really aren't that bad. I'm for Americans who was suffering with lost their jobs or knew someone who had their view was bushes out of it pushes out of touch. He doesn't get it and so on Reagan's view was really very different with strategy was very different stay the course acknowledges. The things are pretty bad. But stay the course and Plies. I'm appealing to patients on the peeling to fortitude. I'm trying to confer dignity to struggle. I am suggesting that we have a plan there is light at the end of the tunnel. The point here is that Reagan was not the kind of Statesman who believe I've got to be right on the merits and I'll be Vindicated 20 years from now know that was not Reagan's view Democratic leader must be Vindicated by the next election. Why because it's foolish to have all kinds of sensible policies and then be defeated when the election comes around and have your opponent come in and do them. The Reagan was determined that the economy will turn around not eventually but by 1984 and sure enough in 83 it did and it made the election of 84 ver a very difficult one for for Walter Mondale. A a second aspect about Reagan not only an ability to steer clear of the polls short term popularity but his ability to steer clear or to be almost indifferent to what the pundits the elites the media had to say about him. This is an extremely rare quality. Why you look at today's leaders like Gingrich or Camp as I say the elements of them of Reagan in them and yet they are at least as far as I can see deeply concerned sometimes even obsessed with what the New York Times editorial page or what Dan Rather says about them on the Evening News Reagan didn't care. He really didn't care. I just went all the way back to his days as Governor when he was governor of California a column is very influential herb Kane of the San Francisco Chronicle would week after week after week write these bitter attacks on Reagan and Michael bever told me you said I once went up to Governor Reagan and I said coming around. Have you seen the attacks? And I've been coming repeatedly very vituperative attacks by Hurricane. Andy versus Reagan's reaction with something like this. He said, you know, yeah I said, you know what's eating that guy. if you are if you think about it for a moment, it's very interesting rankings assumption is his assumption is that something's wrong with hurricane. And throughout his career Reagan operated in the Serene confidence that his own views of absolutely right and it's a shaker bottle by data when I when I went to college when I enrolled at Dartmouth as a freshman. The first thing they told me was at the mark of a liberally educated young man or woman is do not do a shoe convictions to have a mind not wholly made up a mind that is always open to new facts and as the fax come in the ideas you modify your beliefs in line with the facts. I I say with some view Reagan's view was that he had a pre-existing set of beliefs and if you gave him a set of that fax that appear to contradict those beliefs Reagan's basic assumption was get me a new set of facts. He had a tremendous inner confidence in his in his convictions to energize economic growth. I'm going to hike defense spending to invite the Soviets into an arms race that they can't win and his aides told him if you do that and you don't deeply / domestic spending you're going to get a big deficit and Reagan's reply was basically so be it. I quote him saying as early as 1991 or 1981. He said I want to balance the budget, but I'm not going to do it at the expense of my tax program or my defense program. If I we can't balance the budget now, we'll have to do it later. Now throughout the 80s are the wise men of economic profession across the political Spectrum, including a Harvard Professor Martin feldstein dragonzone advisor. They told it look if you don't cut the deficit this ballooning deficit will drive up interest rates by competing with private borrowing it will reignite inflation. It will wreck the economy of the recovery. None of this happened Reagan took the Gamble and amazingly the deficit seems to have had no measurably disastrous or even negative impact during the 80s and suddenly in the 90s poop the deficit disappears 20 billion this year probably zero next year. Our last US president comes to the podium takes a silly bow and says I did this the Democratic party did this for America as Clinton put it in the recent speech to which one it's time to step back and say really what did you do? How did you do it? There are only two ways to really reduce a deficit or balance a budget number one steep hikes in taxes number two huge cocks and in spending Clinton has done either and so you have to ask what did he do to reduce the deficit and the obvious undeniable I think answer is nothing nothing Clinton's one major policy initiative though. The healthcare plan went up in Flames. So what has balanced the budget are two things one the Reagan boom and economic boom the god going around 1983 and has virtually never look back. Driving the Dow Jones Industrial Average from 800 in 1982 to well over 8,000 today attend folding Kris. And that is of course been a bonanza for the treasury second gigantic defense saving since the end of the Cold War this country today is spending 100 billion dollars less every year than before the Berlin Wall fell and E Savings which will accrue indefinitely to the Future these savings are the single most important reason why the budget has suddenly and unexpectedly balance itself. So I guess what I'm suggesting is that the very guy the very man blamed for the deficits of the 80s is oddly enough The Hidden Hand responsible for the balanced budget of today. I want to make a one last appointed by Reagan and thinking about him and contrasting him in some ways with some of his a republican successors is to try to italicize Reagan's infectious and seemingly irrepressible optimism contrast with a mood on the right and mood among conservatives switch at least until the recent Clinton scandal of Bloom was one of pessimism now the Gingrich Republicans come Sweeping in a 1994 and a reason as follows. They say Reagan cut taxes Reagan's policies were instrumental in ending the Cold War but Reagan did not cut this domestic spending and Reagan did not balanced the budget. So we are going to do that. They said let's look at Medicare. Let's look at entitlements and suddenly Boom the Republicans. Do a brick wall their popularity plummets. And so they conclude the reason they say well we tried it looks like the American people are not on our side. It looks like the American people have been corrupted by big government. And correspondingly on the intellectual ride among intellectual conservative and activist. There is a corresponding fear that the American people have been corrupted by liberalism by permissive liberalism in a sense. This is the message of my ATI collie judge bourque's recent book slouching towards Gomorrah that the American people are the problem and this makes it of course. We're very difficult politics. How do you how can you be a Democratic leader when your premise is that the American people at themselves in a sense the problem now, this was not Reagan's view Reagan's view was at the American people are fundamentally decent Reagan's view was that if you give people Freedom if you allow people to keep some more of their own money. They will use this Freedom. Well, they will use it to fashion and American Dream for themselves optimism was not simply an accidental feature of his personality, but it was a political had a political meaning if United in a sense the two bases of the Republican party, which is to say taxpayers if you will and social and religious conservatives Reagan in a sentence made the Republican Party in the 80s the party of Liberty and the party of virtue both know this is very important principles crudely speaking in American politics. There is Liberty does equality does virtue Loosely speaking if you have to you win and that was Reagan success, he was able to get to make the Republican party as I say the party of Liberty and virtue the issue of equality Reagan didn't he conceded that the Democrats remember in the 80s? It was all this rhetoric about the rich getting richer and the poor Treading Water Mondale in the way made that the centerpiece of his 84 campaign Reagan on the other hand did not even contest that issue. I remember during the 84 campaign at one point Monday like giving a speech on the inequality theme and Andrea Mitchell of NBC news said to Reagan. What about mondale's charge? And Reagan said I think you should pay them. I didn't come I didn't get to go back if you go back and look at Reagan's read Reagan speeches in the 80s. I think the thing that struck me most about rereading Reagan speeches. Is it unlike so many on the couch will write today Bill Bennett. For example, Reagan never criticizes The Vices of the American people. In fact, I have confirmed this with Reagan speech writers. I have not been able to find a single speech in which Reagan condemns it legitimacy. Never never what Reagan does he italicize emphasizes the better angels of our nature. He emphasizes the good side of human Freedom invented a tradition called a hero in the balcony and which of the end during his speech he would stop and point to someone as a kind of Exemplar of democratic Liberty. He would say look at this guy and these heroes in the balcony. These were not sort of Horatio Alger figures they want Guys who started out broke and made millions? They were sacrificial Heroes the guy Lenny skutnik who jumps in the Potomac River to save people from a burning crash or the boys who stormed the beaches at Normandy. These were dragons Heroes how to say this isn't a lesson in how you can use Freedom. Well in some ways this tradition was so successful be the hero in the balcony prediction discontinued under Bush and now even under Clinton, of course Clinton's heroes in the balcony are are a different breed. They are the more the government worker who works on weekends, you know our hourly, Beyond You know the Young. Ynobe the 12 year old kid who sends in his allowance to pay off the deficit when you get the pictures of the tradition continues, although although perhaps in somewhat diminished form. Beyond the story of the Diplomat Clare Boothe Luce once said that history which has no room for clutter will remember every president by only one line. Like Washington was the father of the country or Lincoln freed the slaves to think about recent presidents II won't speculate on on the current one and ask how is history likely to remember this person. I think with Reagan Margaret Thatcher, I'm going to waste put it pretty well. She said Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot and that is at that is in some ways a very worthy Epitaph if you will, but I would add to that. I would say Reagan won the Cold War and revive the American economy and the American Spirit after a. Of Decline and amylase and Fades into the sunset. It seems that by tragic necessity his vision now becomes hours. It is quite easy for those of us. Who labor political Vineyards to to get a bit discouraged there's an old Indian saying after crossing the mountain more Mountains and if you if you fight these political battles you kind of know the feeling and yet And yet in a sense, I think we can take a lesson from Reagan and ennobled by his constructive and unfailing optimism. I think we should resolve not to let down our guard not to give up the fight. I think we should resolve to pick up where he left off. I think we should resolve to complete his Revolution. We are in this for the Long Haul we should stay the course. Thank you very much. Author and former Reagan administration policy official Dinesh D'Souza speaking at a forum sponsored by the center of the American experiment. I'll following his remarks D'Souza answered questions from the audience. The first question was about how Reagan would have handled the Iraq situation in light of what happened in Iran in 1980. Reagan numb The only analog I can think of was the hostage crisis which was really predated Reagan the American hostages held a broad and Reagan and coming in didn't say what he would do, but he made it pretty clear that whatever he would do would be drastic NBA ratings new this so while there's continuing debate over what exactly led to the release of the hostages on inauguration day. I think in a way Reagan had sent a clear message that his policy would be very different than Carter's who was Reagan's anointed successor in some ways sat at the feet of Reagan for eight years, but didn't learn very much and made a tremendous efforts to distance himself from Reagan. I mean, that was the meaning of the I want a Kinder gentler America Kinder and gentler than Reagan and then showed in many ways that he was a very different sort and ultimately that was Bush's on Doom When the American people voted him in basically on the premise of Reagan wants this guy we want him as soon as Bush was able to clearly demonstrate that he wasn't he was no Reagan his political strength began to weaken. You became more vulnerable in a Boy Scout principles, which is to say reset in advance and we're going to go in the war to get Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait we've done that. So now it's time to go home. I think Reagan would have understood intuitively that war changes the nature of the argument. We think of Lincoln going into the Civil War Lincoln said before the war very clearly. I am not going to go after slavery in the states in the southern states. They can keep slavery. This whole argument is about slavery in the territories, but once the war was underway Lincoln didn't once I didn't think twice but he did not shy away from the Emancipation Proclamation. He realize that war changes the nature of Debate, so I think it's made it made a serious mistake. And in some ways were living with the consequences of that. Although Bush deserves a lot of credit for conducting that wore brilliantly to the degree that it said of the cards by think Reagan would have not been felt constrained in that way. I think he would have taken it all the way. Yes to better. I read the Hillary Clinton's book. It takes a village and I read the chapter on education and she went on and on about the demise of our public schools and conspicuously missing was anything about the virtue of private schools, which is interesting cuz he sent their daughter there. Would you give me your view as what you believe President Reagan's do you or your own personal view on the education voucher? Are tax credits as the case may be. Will you know of course that there is Hillary Clinton's coming out with a new edition of this book? It's called it takes a village to keep an eye on my husband, but but B On the issue of school choice Lee Anderson thing about Reagan was in the White House level functionary. But my view of Reagan at the time was Reagan is a nice man someone you would like to have as a neighbor and uncle or parent but he's not that an effective leader because he doesn't seem to be familiar enough and running the show on the wide spirit activities of the president presides over and in some ways and some not so small issues Reagan did very little some social conservatives are critical of Reagan for articulating their their beliefs on abortion School prayer those issues but not doing much under on those fronts affirmative action Reagan left essentially on touch to a debate erupted in the Reagan Administration between nice who wanted to basically have a color-blind policy and Brock. How the labor secretary who wanted to continue affirmative action? What did Reagan do he did nothing? He just he left that debate unadjudicated for 8 years and effect Reagan kept his eye on the ball of history. There are issues that he thought was fundamentally important you cared about inflation the Soviet threat taxes Central America on these issues Reagan was not attached Reagan was actively involved other issues Reagan sort of intuitive inside. You never put it this way, but seem to be that if you are if you become an expert on 47 areas of public policy, you can change the world in 47 ways. You can change the world in two or three ways. And that was Reagan's Focus unlike Clinton, for example who has a thorough familiarity with a lot of public policy detail but has left a much milder signature much weaker Footprints in a sense on the American landscape. I've been thinking to myself. What would a reggae Agenda look like for the year 2060 Forbes was in somebody's trying to duplicate the Reagan success. Not the first time around when Forbes ran pretty much just on the tax issue, but now by uniting the various coalitions in the Republican party, but in a way, I think something at Forbes is doing that is a bit of a mistake is he is trying to be Reagan or or or recover Reagan success by sounding like Reagan or repeating Reagan's themes when Reagan was a tremendous innovator Reagan came along a transform the Republican party and dramatic way is one way the Republican party was the party of balanced budget and fiscal responsibility Reagan made it the party of tax cuts and economically growth a real shift the focus in my view sort of Reagan agenda for 2000 might focus on three issues AFI tax Parental choice in education and color blindness. That's it. The virtue of Reagan's political strategy was always Simplicity and if you look at a the contract with America severely imaginative document but it's 47 different ideas. Reagan strategy was used to have two or three ideas. And then if you have two or three ideas, you don't even have to plan for another Ronald Reagan because you simply say these are the three things the Republican Party stand for you agree with us. You vote Republican. You don't agree that it makes the whole issue. It. It italicize is the division between the two parties Reagan was an expert in Creative confrontation in that area. But I think the reaganite agenda logically just as logically as included welfare reform, for example, it logically expands now, To emphasize the issue of Parental choice in education, you would made too and not that I would ever be the defender of our current president, but you did mention that he had done nothing. What about the 1993 unprecedented historical tax increase and its effect on the deficit. I felt that I helped more than necessary and reducing the deficit. If you look at the the 93 Tax Bill. Clinton Advanced it is true that the that the 93 bill raise taxes, but they didn't raise taxes dramatically. And in fact, the Clinton team itself anticipated what its effects would be and they said look if you enact our plan the deficit will go down from 290 billion to 250 billion. In other words. They obviously the optimists forecast a 40 billion dollar effect on the part of the deficit. But if you look at the Clinton projections and this is what tells you that the other the balanced budget has come as a total surprise. It was unanticipated by Clinton. It is an unanticipated by the Clinton people themselves. They have been projecting in a sec with David Stockman warned about in the 80s, which is 200 billion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see and I might point us at the I could not see all that far and that these larger forces at How much greater a greater impact about Reagan is? I guess I want to say that that my book is not a hey geography in that. It is not simply the Great accomplishments of Reagan in some ways. I mentioned earlier when I join the administration. My view was Reagan is a is a lovely man, but a flawed leader today the opposite of flaws. He spoke about family values. Sandy had a lovely wonderful relationship with with Nancy Reagan but a somewhat troubled relationship with with his kids. He was as you know, any regular churchgoer a few friends a a fact that is so not known about him and someone camouflage by his outward gregariousness. Even Nancy Reagan says regen build a a kind of wall around himself which even she had trouble as scaling in some ways. I guess I'm arguing that Reagan was Florida's a man bush bush in some ways was a better man than Reagan Bush lovely family that always comes The holidays Bush was a regular churchgoer, which has countless friends a real boy scout and yet as a leader as a public leader less less effective than the dragons. Let me conclude with a little story. That's very revealing of Reagan's private life is dealing with his son as adopted son with Jane Wyman, Michael Reagan, Michael Reagan told me that when Reagan was governor of California. He Michael Reagan was washing cars in a California parking lot and his friends would say Mike. What are you doing? Your your dad's the governor would Reagan's view was that his kids should find their own path in life. He treated them fairly. But without the kind of intense partiality that you expect in a parent Michael Regan went on to become what he is now a very successful talk show host in California and doing the 80s when Reagan Michael Reagan was on his radio show people would call up and they would complain about Reagan's budget cut. Blaine Regan for cutting grass and cutting that and Michael Reagan would say it's a listen don't talk to me about Reaganomics. He said I've been living under it all my life. Thank you very much. Dinesh D'Souza author of Ronald Reagan how an ordinary Man became an extraordinary leader. He was a policy adviser to President Reagan and is now a research scholar at the American Enterprise Institute D'Souza spoke in the Twin Cities at a forum sponsored by the center of the American experiment 10. If you miss part of speech want to hear it again to Addison 9 tonight for a rebroadcast programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the Pillsbury company Foundation caring for the community by giving kids a loving lift. beginning Monday, Minnesota Public Radio news examines the major issues in this Fall's elections stay tuned as we focus on a different campaign issue each week it all starts Monday on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. Mostly sunny Sky 71° Had know FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul mostly sunny skies today a high of 78 degrees Northwest winds 10 to 15 miles per hour mostly clear overnight. 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