At the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington the family friends and fellow Veterans of those who were killed in Vietnam always leave a part of themselves behind after a visit. It may be a piece of their heart or their tears a memory shared with the name etched in black granite on the wall a note or a card a piece of military equipment from a tour of Duty even a Congressional Medal of Honor photojournalist in Vietnam veteran. Larry Powell has captured these painful grieving and sometimes healing moments of remembrance at the wall in his book hunger of the heart communion at the wall company in the photographs are excerpts of the notes and cards left at the foot of the wall over the years which in some ways document the nation's attempt to come to terms with its Legacy in Vietnam on this Memorial Day. We're grateful to have Larry Powell on the line with us to talk about his book his perceptions of the wall the VietVeterans Memorial and to address your comments and questions as well. Mr. Powell. Thanks so much for being with us. Can you tell us about your experience in Vietnam when you were there or what happened to you while you were serving there and what your state of mind was when you returned I served with the US Army and 1968 and an area known as a core. That's the upper most of the northern provinces of South Vietnam.And I guess like many other bedrooms. It was a year filled of heartache and sorrow and pain and misery and you know this a real devastating year. As far as my return to this country, I guess I was really disillusioned probably like so many other veterans who came back from Vietnam thinking that we had served our country and only to be met by huge amounts of protest and everything that the that I guess everything against us. So in the case of what we were. We were fighting car, but I think I also come to realize after coming home. How not only disillusioned with the coming to this country, but how this illusion. I was with the war itself. And in sometime I found that you know, what was going on in Vietnam I think was was wrong and I think when we look at the history of it now we can pretty well Justified that that's not to say that I'm not very proud of my service in Vietnam in the people that I served with I am but I just think it was a terrible experience for an employee of spectrum's and family members who lost somebody in Vietnam, but the country at large, how did your disillusionment manifest itself? When you came back, you know, there's a few things that happened in Vietnam while I was in Vietnam that the death of Martin Luther King the riots that we're going on here in this country, and I mean here I was as young person in Vietnam watching Mac Mac Centre sort of disintegrate in front of all, right. I think that was a great part of the disillusion, but then also how we were received how we were welcomed our unwelcome back into the fold of this country is one betternet put it. I love my country, but my country didn't love me. I can't imagine trying to understand that kind of response to your return. How could you remove yourself enough to understand where the country was at that point and deal with that reaction. I think one of the things that Stuck in my mind was the people that I knew were that were still in Vietnam. And I know after of course I got back in 69 and so, you know, the majority of the country was turning against the war in our involvement there. That's not to say that everybody in this country was against the veterans that were serving their but it manifested itself in that in that way. And I don't know I guess like many other veterans that I thought I would come home and you know things would be okay, but they weren't they weren't for a number of years. We should remind the audience or tell the audience that you were wounded in the war as well weren't you? Well, I was slightly injured in Vietnam. And as I came back from Vietnam in the VA medical system not my injuries only became a whole lot worse. How so? Quality of care of more than anything else, you know, that was at a point. When a lot of US veterans were coming back. We saw the war starting to wind down. The money being spent on the war. No doubt was draining the economy another different places. And I guess if VA hospitals was one of those places that were taking the brunt of that in the quality of care and the VA hospitals at that times were really poor and now you just don't have to take my word about it. You can take word of other bathrooms in one of those persons who wrote about it extensively was Ron kovic who came back. Paralyzed and hit really really terrible experiences with the VA hospital in VA Healthcare System were very fortunate to have as our guests on this Memorial Day broadcast of midday. Larry Powell who is say photojournalist and Vietnam veteran. His book is called hunger of the heart communion at the wall, Larry. Can you tell us about the evolution of your relationship with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial the wall? I understand you originally didn't like its design exactly. I was awake trimmer to the wall right away and I was supposed to the building of the memorial at the time that it was first brought up right out to the public. You know, I'm sure I was still angry about the war about our treatment. I didn't like the fact that the memorial was black. I didn't like the fact that it was placed in the ground. And at the time I didn't like the fact that an Asian woman had designed it and then I guess after a few years of of seeing the memorial and the people are going to the memorial on TV I decided that maybe I should go take a look at it before I completely condemn that in the course once I did I understood fully what mile in the designer of the memorial was trying to do that was six years after it was dedicated. Correct, right exactly. And you know, it's very important that it is black if it was made out of Whitestone. We wouldn't be able to read the names off of the memorial in in bright sunlight and the fact that it is something in the ground is very important to because it removes you from the from the atmosphere Washington DC and let you deal with the memorial in the names on the wall one-on-one without being disturbed so mad when was a lot smarter than I was. What happened to you during your first visit to the wall? What impact did that have on you get emotional rollercoaster of a flood of memories from Vietnam, and I don't know if you know the memories of actually that's the. Of Time coming back from Vietnam. And you know, when I went there I had no intention of really photographing of the memorial are doing anything special. What did I just I just thought I should go and take a look at it. But it was on my trip home that I started thinking about what this Memorial would be like 75 years from now when all of us veterans are dead and the parents of those whose names are on the wall or dead and I just thought the the complexion and the con contact with them or Memorial wood chair. That's not to say the people, you know, 75 years from now won't go by that Memorial and be moved by. I think you would have to be may be Stone dead and I'm not to get you know, some type of emotional feeling pregnant, but I just I just knew that it was going to change and so I decided then that I would go back to the memorial and start documenting the memorial not so much for our our time at bar, but for future Generations so that they would have an understanding of what was taking place at this Memorial during this period of time in our history and that's really how this all came about but I must say that I I really thought my photographs would be found maybe 25 years after I was dead and would not be brought to you by present-day. How were they discovered? Actually, I have been working on a project since I went back to the after that first trip about women survivors. That's another thing that really struck a chord with me because I guess when I went to the memorial I thought of it really is a a place for veterans. And of course once I went there I saw so many women there and it you know, it's just like a light bulb going out for my head that yes, there are a lot of survivors from that war. So I started documenting and doing interviews with women survivors mother's wives daughters during this period of time also and I had an exhibit that was in Lexington Mass at our Museum of Our National Heritage and I'm a person that works for the publisher happen to see that exhibit a was Thirty-One prints of these women as that. I photographed at the wall. And they make contact with me and asked me if I would be interested in doing a book on the memorial. Of course. The book that I want to do is women they left behind which we're working on that now, but they asked me to do Hunger the hard first and so that's really how it came up about. It was just sort of a I guess a stroke of luck. Photojournalist in Vietnam veteran Larry Powell is our guest in this hour of midday his book of photographs at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial is called hunger of the heart communion at the wall. These photographs as I understand it were taken over an eight-year span and you shot about eight hundred rolls of film. That means you went to the wall. Probably too many times to count was it did it become less and less difficult to go back time and time again. I think every time I go there because every day there are new people who have never been to the memorial new family members who are coming there to find their loved ones name and I'm seeing that and I'm recording that and I must say, you know what sometimes it's it's a very emotional response and sometimes it's very hard to photograph that without being moved yourself. So for me the the business are in the trips, they're still having emotional element to him. What was your philosophy in taking the pictures you capture extremely private painful moments. Did you feel like you were intruding or or exploiting as a success situation in in in taking a picture? No, I never feel like that. You know, I I guess there's some people that would call me of all your or whatever are that that was exploiting that but purpose was really to record this for future generations. And like I said earlier just happened that it happened to be published during my lifetime. I think it's important that we we share some painful parts of our life, but the public so that they will have a better understanding and I hope that when I went to a young person picks us up and looks good. They will try to understand a little bit more about Vietnam. It might make them want to dig into the history of Vietnam to learn more from it. So, I hope that it's educational in nature even though yes, it is painful in some cases to look at it. Can you tell Play some stories about some of the photographs you took. How did how did people react what what are some of the more memorable pictures in the book? I would imagine they're all memorable to you that they are but I think one is that I can share with you is the one that's on page 99 of the book. It's a photograph of a young woman who is holding her two children this young woman was 17 months old when her father was killed in Vietnam, and I'm almost 25 years to the date of his death. She came to the memorial at to see his name and to show her children and her father's name. I photographed Karen and her two daughters. I'm really very patient and I'm really really watch what I'm doing there. I'm not inclusive. I don't believe with my photograph photography I waited until I knew Karen was leaving the memorial and asked if she could just give me her name and address and telephone number as that. I may want to contact her at a later date because I really don't want to start Disturbed people when they're there. They came to that memorial for a purpose. So she she gave me that she's left the memorial. I came home at the belt to pictures and I found this. A very very powerful a photograph of which I have entitlement kissing you hurt and it's a photograph of Karen holding her children in one of her daughters is kissing her why tears are streaming down from the mother's cheeks and I just thought how important this Photograph would be to Karen not to Karen but to her children, so they would have an understanding of what took that took place that day. So I sent a letter to Karen and told her that this this Photograph was Far her daughters and it just got back such a wonderful letter from her telling me how important it was and how powerful that photograph was to her and that she would cherish it and pass it on to her children for that day. Karen also that turned out to be my first interview and for the women's project that I'm working on right now and she told me her life story and how this death affected her life. So that's one in. You listening to Vietnam veteran Larry Powell. He's a photojournalist his book of photographs at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington is called hunger of the heart communion at the wall. And Marie in Hopkins is on the line with us. Hello. Thanks for joining us. And because it wasn't discussed a whole lot in my family, even though everything was happening around me my two older brothers neither of them served because one was a health issue in the other one. I miss the draft and so I kind of grew up not understanding Vietnam but catching all the peripheral reactions and kind of things in our country that we're going on. I was in architecture school the time that this was commissioned and there are also some memorials being designed in school and my emotional reaction to them was always extremely at first like what are we doing? So, you know, why are we expecting a huge monuments to a war and I just couldn't comprehend that and so when the Vietnam War was first designer once everyone is talking about the problems with drainage Etc. You know typical Civil engineering questions that critique projects and about two years after school. I went there with a fellow classmate and it wasn't until I truly experienced that Memorial I stood there and cried and I could even have that same emotion right now. It is more powerful than I can ever explain is probably one of the most powerful emotions ever felt and suddenly the author stated earlier you take it all in you understand. There's no room for criticism. There's only room for understanding and one hole that I have with your book is a people see this in truly want to experience that it's the whole feeling of walking down into a memorial a remembrance and you are enveloped and you see one named after the other around you and you can you comprehend more and it's in my opinion. It's total devastation. So I thank you for caption is for future generations, and I hope you do it alone with it. Thanks. Thanks a lot for your call Marie. I think that's the that's the thing about it. You know, it's hard to walk down into that Memorial and look at row after row panel after panel of names and not feeling the devastation that is added to this country. And you know this Memorial changed. The whole way we think about memorials to do, you know. That's true. It's it seems like most memorials. Dedicated to War veterans have names abston some kind of stone these days. You know, what a personalized is very much this memorial for each individual. You know, I mean, it would be pretty hard for somebody to walk down there not recognize at least their last name and a whole lot of first names like that are our own, you know, and I think you know, I was shocked that that myself because of three Larry Powell's on that wall. Course one of them is not me, but I was shocked to find my own night no name there. Do you know of any Veterans of Vietnam veterans who still haven't visited the wall? Well, I don't know any personally, I guess at this point. There are a group of veterans that are known as pre line veteran. So who come to Washington DC and right above the memorial there is a line of trees. And they cannot bring yourself to walk that 40 yards to come in contact with the memorial so they hang out in the tree line there. And for whatever reason they just can't make that that distance to pay 7 tomorrow. Photojournalist in Vietnam veteran Larry Powell is our guests were talking about his book of photographs taken at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington called hunger of the heart communion at the wall, and it is Memorial Day and it's important on Memorial Day to hear from the president. Here is President Clinton speaking at the Tomb of the unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery in Washington when you walk out of here today. And look once again at all the gravestones. imagine That's The Story of All We Have Become as a nation is written in these Hills Each headstone a page of our history. George Washington is a part of the history of this Hallowed Ground. There are Graves here from The Revolution and every conflict sense. On the stones or engrave the names of the most famous Americans and those were familiar only to their families and loved ones. On each tablet is a name a date of birth and date of death. the name of a state a religious symbol perhaps a few details about Rank and service. simple facts on Sample Stones each standing for a person who believe the idea of America was worth fighting for and all the stones standing together. Are the enduring Monument to our greatness and eternal promise? Including the stone witch have no names. 11 days ago a Vietnam veteran was removed from the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. It was the right course of action because science has given us a chance to restore his name and bring Comfort to his family. And we had the season. But whatever happens we must always remember that that stone represents the many unknown soldiers still in Vietnam and Korea in other theaters where Americans live far away from home missing in action still with us in spirit. They may be unaccounted for but we must all be accountable for their memories as well. We take comfort in something Chapel Leo Joseph O'Keefe reminded us of at the ceremony on May 14th that if some names are unknown to us on Earth all names are known to God in heaven. I asked Americans. I asked Americans to join me in a moment of remembrance at 3 today eastern daylight time to honor the known and the unknown who gave their all for our nation. And ladies and gentlemen during that moment. We can give special thanks on this Memorial Day. Last December we negotiated an agreement with North Korea. That entitles us to send five teams to their country to search for Americans. Early this morning it to the remains of Two Soldiers believed to be Americans were repatriated to the UN command honor guard at Panda and John on the DMZ. They are coming home this Memorial Day. I think all the veterans here today from all the wars of the 20th century. Forgetting all of us the chance to be here with you. I think of the children here today who will spend most of their lives in the next century. The youngest among them will not even remember the 20th century. It is possible with medical advances that they make lamps the 22nd century. For them we must do our duty to enhance freedom and opportunity at home to strengthen the bonds of our own Union as we grow more diverse to advance the causes of democracy and human rights prosperity and peace around the world. We must strengthen our own Freedom by maintaining America's role in leading the world. That is the central lesson of the 20th century. We abdicate responsibility at our Peril to do so now would be there in the house the sacrifices of 10 generations of Americans. Yep off in the day. We hear voices urging us to abandon our obligations to the Moulton Al organizations. We did so much to create. Are the causes of Peace we are winning and cooperation with our allies as in Bosnia. Too often we hear calls for actions and our foreign policy which would isolate us from our allies without achieving our objectives. As the world goes smaller and smaller for the children here and we become more and more interconnected with our neighbors in every way. We must strengthen the ties That Bind free people work with those who share our values and really want to share our burdens. Of course, we must always be prepared to act alone when our values and our interest amanzon. But whenever we can we ought to work with our friends to make a better world together. We can make the 21st century A Century Of Peace. We can write a new chapter of unprecedented possibility and prosperity in our nation's history. In so doing we can extend the glory of the patriots who lie here. Missing from our lives but eternally present in our memories. My fellow Americans on this Memorial Day. Let us commit ourselves to a future worthy of their sacrifice. Thank you and God bless America. That was President Clinton speaking today at the Tomb of the unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery in Washington DC. And we're back with Larry Powell who is a Vietnam veteran and photojournalist and has a book of photographs taken at the Vietnam veterans memorial called hunger of the heart communion at the wall and Larry we heard President Clinton mentioned those missing in action and you have a special place in your heart for the names of people lost or missing in Vietnam who didn't make it to the wall. That's for sure. You know, I think this is something that we have to keep on the burner on the front burner. We need to resolve these issues for these families that are still up with us. You have not recovered The Remains and you know, I'm like him and I think the team needed to be opened up at the end so that at least one family can put the rest of the pain and suffering that they're still going through at this time. You listening to Larry Powell here in a midday and we have John in Minneapolis who's been waiting for a while. Thanks John. Hello, my my own experience that the wall was kind of a Blindside thing at the end of a business trip and it was So emotional really talked about it but few years later. My daughter went with the rates for the eighth grade class 2A Washington, and I asked her to look up the name of a friend who been in eighth grade with stand. The Experience hit her and her friends in a way, you know, they're thinking a my dad was in 8th grade and then he had to go off to War what if some of us have to do that and it kind of stuck with them. They're going to South High now. I'm in Minneapolis, which has a wonderful. Artistic theater program they really teach the kids how to write she wrote a play about it. Another girl at school produced a piece of my heart wonderful story of women in Vietnam and someone else in the South High 1X also produced another another play about this one was about to make the decision about whether to run away to Canada or not. Solis these feelings and decisions do make the rounds. Thanks a lot for your call John. Thank you. I think that's really important. You know, I hope that we can pass on to each generation the importance of studying Vietnam the aftermath of that war because it's not just a black and white issue. There's so many gray areas out there for us to exploring. Your book captures in in photographs and inwards some of the feelings and experiences of people who visit the wall. Would it be possible for you to read a few of the more memorable letters are written materials left at the wall that you uncovered. I hope I can do it. Yes. I hope I don't get choked up reading these because they still do that to me. But here's one. Well, Mom's been meaning to see you at the work the works just never done and Dad just seems to sit around and stare. Well, I just know they're really proud of you. You served your country like you had to do. It'll take a little time, but they'll be there. I guess I miss you. Most of all you are more than a brother. You were my friend. I thought we'd be together. But so suddenly it had to end. I never thought I'd see you again. I would have stood out by the airport waiting for your flight to be called. I didn't think we'd see your name on that wall. this is another one from I'm presuming your veteran because of the way it's written. It says an Indus has a spent shell casing attached to it with a little ribbon and it's from a marine. I guess was fox29 3rd Marine Division 1968. This round is spent just like your life was miss you Kim white guy loser and bro. See you all in Hell or how Joe and then off to the side of it in present parentheses. He says Thou shalt not kill. Grab you another one later. This wedding ring belongs to the young Viacom fighter. He was killed by Marine unit in the food loc province of South Vietnam in May of 1968. I wish I knew more about this young man. I've carried this ring for 18 years. It's time for me to lay it down. This boy is not my enemy any longer. You know what? I think I think about it is what makes this book. So powerful is the people who go there their messages are just so moving. Yes. Photo journalist and Vietnam veteran Larry Powell is our guest on. Midday. He has a book of photographs out called hunger of the heart communion at the wall, and we're going to take some more calls Carle in Minneapolis joint us now. Give me the best war memorial ever built in probably does for all of them. But one of them is that it's accessible and meaningful even to the people who were very much on the anti-war in a way to the most more war memorials never are and the other thing I was curious if he had any biblical references. One of them is going through the thing from the 23rd psalm descending into the valley of the shadow of death. And the other one is with respect to it being blocked and Polished like it is could you repeat that? We had a click on your phone. You're the second part of your question. yeah, if it's the other other song of now we see through a glass Darkly but face to face. What's up, Larry Powell comment? well I'm not sure about you know, mine lens part of that either but I do think when you think about it, you know, he's a while I walk to the Shadow or death, you know, maybe that could have inspired her in some way. I know it's a thought that I've always had to because that was sort of a saying that was put on a lot of lighters in Vietnam. Yay, though. I walk through the valley of death. I fear no evil because I'm the meanest person in this Valley was the veteran saying that it's just a very very powerful monument. And you know, it is really important that you do walk down into it and you don't Protesters this is not just a memorial for Vietnam veterans in those families. It's a memorial for all Americans no matter what side of the issue of Ward you were on I think it's a place where we can all come together and collectively heal from that. Of time in our history, and we actually we have a we have a letter in the book and it says Your soldier, how do I begin to put into words my feelings as I stand here before this tribute to you. I was one of the thousands who believed that the world was wrong. I protest please know that I protested against the war. Not you I wanted you home on college campuses are with your family and friends working playing crying laughing. You're at home not there dying many times when I asked why I never married, I would say jokingly that the one with my name. On him was probably in some rice field in nam never to return but it's not a joke. We are all diminished because you are gone. However, we are also enhance because you so bravely gave yourselves for our precious beliefs of Liberty and Justice. Thank you Soldier you are in my heart and in my prayers you are my hero. Larry have you ever had a chance to meet Maya Lin. Actually, I have not met her personally. I have photographed her at the wall That's the nature of the ceremony that goes on at the memorial. It's I guess it would be a little bit increase if upon me to try to you know capture her there at the at the memorial because she is touched so many lies and cheese. She needs to she needs to be able to filter through those crabs in in touch as many people as you can if you had a chance to meet her what would you say to her? Thank you so much for this beautiful Memorial. To my comrades forgive me for my ignorance, I guess. Gym in Willmar has been waiting patiently. Go ahead Jim. Most removing times was when I went with Maya world war hero father and watched him. I'll break down in tears as he walk down through the V and tell me that's like another story. I heard that he saw the names and faces of his friends that he had lost back almost 50 years ago, but I also found it no matter how I try to take a picture of the wall from any angle. I couldn't get it all in I couldn't bring back when the photos were developed the real feeling of of being there and being close by and smelling the dirt and feeling the wall and hearing sounds and feeling the people buy you a crying or talking or the children even laughing and Kenneth bouncing down the down the walk there. And it's a matter. I seen your book and I've seen other books and bring back the memory of really being there. Hang up your call. I think you have to be there to experience that Memorial to really get something out of it. Yes. It is. It's it's almost impossible to photograph the whole thing in to get that into one picture just because of the length of the memorial it makes it so tiny in a photograph that you can see it if you try to take a picture of the whole I hope Memorial but hopefully for the people that can't come to the memorial I can't get there for economic reasons are health reasons or whatever. They can go to their library and they can take a look at this book. And I can sort of get an understanding of what's taking place there at this. In our life. Larry we just have just a few seconds left and I probably shouldn't throw this question at U of A. Maybe you can answer it briefly. How do you think about the progress? This country is made in coming to terms with Vietnam. Well, you know what? I think I think we have made some long strides with war in Vietnam and actually are our involvement with Vietnam today. I think they're there still are issues that we still have to deal with agent orange is one of those issues that are affecting veterans and some of their offspring and the issue of the amazing Vietnam is still like I said needs to be on the front burner we need to to bring as many of those people home as we can and resolve this for their family, but I also think that as a nation we have to deal with Vietnam. I'm glad that we are trying to normalize relations with Vietnam. I think that's important. I think that in turn will help us get more information about are animes. So I think we're progressively going along. I think we will find out more as more of our own records or opened up and you know, some things have come to bear that I think a lot of us knew McNamara's book that I made a revelation in 1965 that they didn't think of that we were going to win the war there. Then it's too bad that he didn't have the guts to walk out of the White House and then down said to the Publican to the press. It may have saved us at 25000 lives. If we would have pulled out of Vietnam earlier with that type of thought I'm going on. Unfortunately. We've run out of time. I want to thank you so much for joining us this hour. Some Vietnam veteran Larry Powell his book of photographs at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial is called hunger of the heart communion at the wall. And if you're interested, you can order the book by calling one 800-557-9867 through aisle West publishing and get a 25% discount if you order within 24 hours of the show.