Hey, good morning. The time is 6 minutes after 11. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio for Tuesday May 5th. 1998. Gary Guyton is a way. I'm very familiar. Thanks for joining us. Well today may may be a key date for the future of the Minnesota Twins. It's important because of proposal for a publicly-funded baseball stadium is on the ballot today in to North Carolina county or twins owner Carl pohlad has threatened to move the team voters in Gilford and Forsyth County's will decide whether to spend upwards of a 140 million dollars of public money on the project a yes vote is supposed to make it easier for the Minnesota Twins to leave the Twin Cities assuming Major League Baseball allows the move and that's the reason it isn't clear was of the outcome of today's vote will mean the twins are leaving Minnesota Senate Majority Leader Rodger, Moe is still discussing the twin situation with owner Carl pohlad and his sons and there is plenty of question about the level of interest in Saving Major League Baseball in Minnesota.Joining us today to help sort through some of the details his Minnesota public radio sports. Analyst Howard Sinker Howard is State News editor and former assistant sports editor at the Star Tribune. How are you going to have your good to be here? We can be able to figure this out by the end of the hour along with some listeners. Hopefully and I we should mention that that we'd like to invite you to join the conversation with your thoughts on today's vote, whether any of this matters to you as a fan or is somebody who isn't a fan do you think this could spell the end of the Minnesota Twins and Major League Baseball here will it matter in terms of entertainment value or Economic Development or big Citi Prestige? Is this a priority for you or not? I will find some time later the hour course to chat a little bit about the team performance so far this year and whether all the off-the-field controversy has had any effect on attendance and overall interest in the twins couple of telephone numbers to pass along in the Twin Cities. The number is 227-6002. 276.The toll-free number is 1 800-242-2828 1 800-242-2828 before we talk with Howard and take listener calls. Minnesota Public Radio is Martin Koski is in North Carolina, and he has a report on today's vote. The ads for the proposed Stadium tax have been running in heavy rotation here in the past few weeks local business interests have donated generously to the yes vote campaign and they're $700,000 Worcester by the lot of time in this small Media Markt the business interest Arguments for the stadium tax are a lot like the arguments offered by Stadium boosters in Minnesota last year Major League Baseball. They say is a key element to being a major league Community Doug. He really a lawyer and Jaycees Club member from Greensboro says he's voting. Yes because he wants to help his region grow. I think it says that we have a vision that we know where we really want to go. We want to grow and we want to grow in a manner that we control if he Arguments for the stadium tax sound familiar to Minnesota ears then so do the arguments against the vote. No campaign is not nearly as well funded their budget at $26,000 isn't big enough for TV, but they have a What is very effective barrage of radio ads that relies on a general sense of anger at Big Time Sports Major League Baseball doesn't deserve hundreds of Millions for stadium funding from taxpayers. The entire premises unfair read the owners and outrageous salaries have changed baseball forever. That's their problem. It doesn't have to be ours. The anti-tax forces were way out in front with pole suggesting 61% of Voters inclined to defeat the tax 2 months ago, but the opposition has slipped in more recent polls and with the arrival of election day neither side can be sure of Victory. There's also no way to be sure what this election means for the Minnesota Twins in theory a yes vote should make it easier for team owner Carl pohlad to complete the sale to North Carolina investors, but pohlad has already missed a series of deadlines for completing that deal and many baseball Observers. He's dragging his feet standing on the proposed site of the new twins ballpark here in rural, Kernersville, North Carolina. Anti-tax activists Karen. Michaelo says, she can't believe Major League Baseball owners would really let one of their franchises moved to this spot. I can't say one way or the other whether this area is going to be able to support it or whether this location is going to be good. You know, we know that other authority baseball Authority is have told our Authority that Major League Baseball's not looking for a Field of Dreams. They're looking for a city environment and this is in the middle of rule, North Carolina. If the Triad votes yesterday and puts a publicly-funded baseball stadium on the table, it will give residents of both States a chance to find out just how serious Carl pohlad and Major League Baseball are about getting out of Minnesota in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. I Martin kosti Minnesota Public Radio and again joining us today in the studios to talk through some of the details of the vote is Minnesota public radio sports analyst Howard Sinker and again the phone numbers if you have us some comments or questions to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand. The toll-free number is one 802-422-8288 Howard the the question has been asked its kind of the key point today is just how important is today's vote in North Carolina, you know, it's an interesting step along the way to gauge public reaction Perry, but you know, it's another one of those How to make it into more than it really is might not be the wisest thing to do. I mean the Twins were telling everybody that there was a drop-dead date last November that came and went to really without anything happening the legislature at one point to Ted winter the legislator from folded with carrying the Stadium built said that because you all won't pass my bill. We kill baseball in Minnesota that hasn't come to pass. This is an interesting gauge public opinion there and I think would have shown so far more than anything else is if you throw hundreds of thousands of dollars down there into an advertising campaign that you can get a significant number of people to change their minds. I mean with a the interesting thing right now is that support for this 1% restaurant taxes up from I think in the mid 20% figure a few months back up to about 43% in the most recent poll and one in five people, I guess who I were pulled in by the Winston-Salem paper. Said they made up their mind in the last week. So I think people are you know, there are a number of people are saying hey if we can do this if we can get baseball, let's go for it. But I think they also know that a yes vote is still a vote with their heart and not necessarily with their heads got to talk about the various parties involved in this and when what what the various approval or rejection will mean for some of them. Let's first talk about business in the referendum does pass very of a Carl pohlad Don Beaver the the man who apparently looks like he would buy the team if it will be North Carolina and where does that Saturday image would mean that the that the damage would be that there is a sudden Groundswell for for bringing Major League Baseball to this rural area of North Carolina that people are still scratching their heads in wonderment even people down there or sink and Lisa can this area really support major league baseball team. Beaver on a TV show, I guess in North Carolina last night was comparing it to the Denver area. There is no way the Triad is Denver. I'm sorry. I'm good. Try let's see, you know what's go back in the end and then sell something else but it would show that that that people that their significant number of people willing to take a risk and be taxed but it still wouldn't mean the twins are going to to the Triad at how about rejection rejection, you know rejection means I got to find another way to come up with that hundred forty million dollars as as the public financing part of the stadium and as you know from the Minnesota legislators actions are all kinds of ways that that you can Cobble together a deal course in Minnesota there ways. You can Cobble together a proposal and have a chat down. I mean that's what the twins are proven so far no matter what anyone comes up with they've managed to alienate enough people that there's there's just no There's just there's just no sympathy for the twins that are at the legislature in the public or in the business Community talk about it. No more about the skepticism of the Triad area. I thought first of all do you do you agree that it isn't a viable. Is it a viable place for you know, the scary thing? I think the more viable place is probably Charlotte and that maybe were beaver looks weird on Bieber looks if the referendum sales today, is that what he has been thinking all along do you think or I don't think so. I don't think I thought I think the dam beavers probably been the most straightforward character and all of us. He owns a 5% share of the Pittsburgh Pirates. He use that to get some visibility Amant baseball owners so that when he could become majority, so when he had the chance to get a majority interest in a team, it would be you know, he he wouldn't be a stranger. And I think he really thinks he can make a go of it and in the Winston-Salem Greensboro area. So you would you call him a legitimate fire. He he is not some have suggested that it's very possible. He could be a pain and Carl pull dad's attempt to get a stadium here is he legit as pawns or a significant players in an in an attempt to to get some kind of outdoor baseball stadium or or retractable roof Stadium here? I don't think pohlad seize Beaver is legitimately is beaver sees himself. I mean, I think the pole at is convinced in his heart and in his head that at some point something will happen that will allow a team to state of Minnesota pull. It has too many ties Family Ties business ties by now ties in the athletic Community to be the guy who moved the Minnesota Twins to out-of-state, especially when he was the White Knight who came in here 14 years ago and did the same thing. Kept Calvin Griffith in theory for moving the team out of state with NPR Sports commentator Howard Sinker. If you like to join the conversation to 276 thousands the Twin Cities number toll-free number is one 800-242-2828 Mike from Plymouth your first color High represent down in that area. It's interesting that my conversations with people over the last six months or so. We've been Thought you meant to say about what you think it was getting the team is from cool to a different. I think it speaks that has supported they going to have if they move down there are any of it. Of course it is on these kind of special elections. Like this is typically the people that they're in different that don't vote the guys that they're fired up because of the campaigning or whatever very often. It will also be interesting to see whether we're the smoke goes and if it really reflects what the people in total thing second point is a local friend of mine who's very much a fan very much into the financial side made a great coach argument one day at a dinner party explaining about how a new stadium would generate so much money because of the increased boxes and all the stuff and even actually came up saying that increase Revenue would cover the debt service at cetera and Myer personal reaction in a couple of people table was great then let's Carl pohlad. Build a stadium and make all that money. And nothing else. I'll just go off the air listen for some of the comments. All right. Thank you Mike. That's really the way a lot of people feel but I mean pole at a single Market where cities and a nationwide market where people are cities are lining up to to do things to attract and keep the keep the franchises interesting thing is the help that the Cleveland Indians got in building at Jacobs Field. And now the owner of the team is saying they need a 60 million dollar from you know, basically public offering in order to keep the team afloat. And here's a team that's a successful as any it is any in baseball and it just shows kind of what happens when you buy success at the expense perhaps of are the financial Acumen the made these people so successful in the first place and his first point about the referendum accurately reflecting the opinion of the majority all the people in North Carolina election. They're saying they were talking about a 30% Which would be high for this kind of issue and now the wind down there is people are so fired up that we might get 35% So that still means that 6 1/2 out of every 10 people, you know really care enough to try to the polls say about the campaign. I wonder if the campaign to sway voters in North Carolina can a mere the debate here in Minnesota or were there some different Dynamics felt like it almost every time those commercials came on here. I think that people were so familiar with the history of the twins financially and on the field that the any kind of play to our emotions just didn't work. I mean people were not going to get override about a baseball team that that hasn't been anything really to deserve public support in the last five or six seasons. Down there apparently based on poll results based on what people are saying the campaign is having some success and swaying some voters enough voters to make it interesting at least tonight. But and the other thing they have going for them, but we don't have a severely NASCAR drivers are doing promo saying hey, honey, bubble it spring ball here. And that's enough to have Kirby Puckett. No, I mean Kirby Puckett who is making six million dollars a year saying. Hey, we need your money to build a stadium. Minnesotans are just basically too sophisticated or too cynical for that. You know, I mean, I heard people respond by saying OK fuck you make 6 million a year why she put up your 1% as a good-faith gesture. Kirby Puckett and Kent Hrbek and movers and shakers asking people for their money to build a stadium just didn't work. And then when we were talking about proposals that that that didn't require taxing everyone say expansion of casino gambling in one form or another and allowing Slots of Canterbury forget. It was the Mover they're people just booked at that and there's just so much bad feeling towards the twins right now and also that I have a suggestion about the changing figures of what it would cost. I mean, I thought I had it figured out how much it would cost to to build a stadium and it seems to be changing every week. Even when you have a figure you don't know what it is because cost overruns often happen in things like this in the proposal kept changing. It was a dome stadium. It was a retractable roof. It was an outdoor stadium. It was an outdoor stadium that we could turn into one with retractable roof later. The twins had no polite probably went in and didn't talk to Arne Carlson and Carlson, you know, they came to an agreement and then pull it thought that he had the backing of the state and that's just not how government works there 201 characters at the legislature who had a strong saying that and they weren't as popular as Carlson has been that was mitigated by pullets on popularity. What time does day with NPR Sports commentator Howard Singer of vote today in North Carolina weather provided a hundred forty million dollars in public funding for a stadium there at the burying is a course with the Minnesota Twins move to North Carolina. If the stadium there is brewed if you have any thoughts about that today anything regarding the twins, I give us a call at 227-6000 in the Twin Cities. 227-6002 toll free number is one 802-422-8284 Minneapolis. Go ahead 1956. I watched when that when they came and I was delighted and I went to almost at least once a week to a game it's better when they were in town and I loved it and I just thought it was the best thing ever an outdoor stadiums and they decided to build an indoor stadium and that was disaster, but we went along with it then we'd We don't want this now, you know with all the money that they're making I agree with the man before let them give a good share of their money every year toward the end. We're investing in the twins what time investing in cells to Kirby Puckett get on the air and said you were there when we were in 19 can't remember now even but he said you were there. Where are you now? And I thought about that statement and I wanted to say him to the TV's Herbie. We were there when you went on strike and where were you then? And that they can do what they want to do to us, but I'd like to see what it's like it when I first came to the Minneapolis-Saint Paul. Then there was no twins, you know, it was a really nice town. He's a really sharp people here and I admire them but putting my foot down because we we've tolerated so much garbage from them that the twins I'm talkin about with where you have to do this thing. I have to do that. We went along with it for a while. Now we're saying hey, you know that until that is the same way in the beginning. He said he would give X number of dollars to US then we find out about six months later. He's not going to give it to him. He's going to loan it to us. It's been nothing but you know absolutely amazing and I think Matt would marry just did Mary speaks really eloquently for the people in this community who love baseball and have come to load the twins. I mean, it's really that simple and end their three group. Understand there's a there's guard Minnesota. There's a government there's a business community and there's a fan if any two of those three groups were behind the stadium things would get done doesn't matter which two would have two out of three said we need this we want to keep the twins. We have a new stadium but pohlad and of the poet family and the people who run the twins have just alienated people to the points of the nothing. There's nothing I say or do will fly so it's so that was I was going to ask you about the popularity of of Governor ardy Carlson. Obviously, he has supported the stadium he's been turned back but you think it's the overriding factor that Carl pohlad is the negativity towards him is outweighed the popularity of the governor and in what Mary said went when it was initially announced the poet was going to put up a d 2 and 1/2 million dollars toward a new stadium in an end soon after it was sent away for the you know, people found out it was actually alone. There is no credibility after that if you lie to the If you miss State what you're doing to the legislature, you just simply don't get a second chance and that's why when there were proposals that would weigh much less heavily on the people the legislature just didn't have time or inclination to help out these people but teams going to have to be sold in order to keep it local assuming that it doesn't matter who the next Governor is and with what effect it will have no effect on the current situation or person is is licking his or her chops thinking I'm going to be the one to help save baseball in Minnesota and get myself off to the side of a wonderful boost in popularity. It'll probably last 3 or 4 months until something else goes wrong with the school's New Blood. Somebody comes into office. Joanne Benson Hubert Humphrey the third just somebody whoever the next Governor is going to be. And says, hey, let's let's put together a deal. Let's let's bring a new ownership group to the table that has some credibility Clark wrif advance on a perm in those kind of people. Let's get the deal done. A governor can be a very powerful facilitator. If the people with the money will let that person facilitate Rite of Spring in the next caller Joe from they're biting. Good morning New Brighton what I was just traveling the I can you hear me when I'm on the phone, Let me just say a couple of things I grew up as a baseball fan and I've been a twins fan since they moved here from Washington, but it bothers me about the statements that there is no Goodwill by the Twins Minnesota fans. I found its can kids are very fickle fans. And if you alienate them, I think you never get them back, you know right now, if you're a student you can go to a baseball game for a dollar and get a real good seat. I dare anybody to say that you can do that in hockey. You can do that in professional basketball with you at that just isn't the case. You can take a family. So baseball game for $25 on a Saturday night and you can actually talk to your kids without going crazy and having people screaming with pom poms and everything else and I think that's what the Minnesota nobody recognizes that the Minnesota and it's amazing to me cuz I just don't understand he happens to be a wealthy person. He also brought to World Series Championships and now because apparently that there's bad press and the legislature in from the Minneapolis delegation doesn't really care about that car pulled up in perception wise in the Minnesota stands is a bad person he is I think he does more for the average Sports in in this teeth in any professional basketball on it does or any professional football owners. What's the average cost of a football see it's all corporate baseball is still Only real sport that allows the average fan to still be able to go and now because of the attendance when when there's hardly anybody they can get good seats. You can't do that and basketball and football understand that that's alright. It's really a big fan of the fact that you can go to a baseball game with the other eight thousand people there. And yeah, you can't have a decent conversation and you can find a parking space at a meter across the street from the Metrodome a half hour before game time. That doesn't speak to the excitement that supposed to be that a major league product is supposed to be about and I think what you always saying shows that it doesn't matter what the twins do right now to try to bring people into the stadium people are shrugging their shoulders and saying what have you done for me since 1991 Carl pohlad. Yeah. He was the guy who saved baseball in 1984, you know, it's a lot like George Bush remember what his approval ratings were at the time of the gulf or anywhere? 1991 and a 1992 some guy from Arkansas, Texas, but I mean, it's really, you know, I mean you can say it's perception, but that's it. That's the very real to the people you have to keep doing stuff for him to to get you to get them to want to support you and I really want to ask you if you need to seriously the sociological question about the so-called fickleness of the Minnesota Twins to why we can forget so quickly or seriously they reached a point where people were saying this team is never going to be any good. They denounce crowds of 18000 and over really about 11,000 people of Target Center. They just they weren't bringing people into the house and there wasn't much help then Garnett comes in. The Marbury comes in gugliada starts playing the way he needs to play and The Supporting Cast does a wonderful job and suddenly the Timberwolves are the hottest thing in town. All the franchises here have been going through it to get the Vikings ever. Answer. Everything is cyclical. I mean last year Vikings game for blacked out on TV at which thrilled the heck out of Packer fans who got to see their team instead. I mean you have to it's not what you did five years ago or 10 years ago or when you came in when you were younger man and save baseball. It's what you're doing right now and people are not going to pay to watch Orlando Merced shuttle between first base in right field. I'm sorry for talking today to NPR Sports commentator Howard Sinker will get to some more calls in just a moment. For playwright. Kevin Kling is one short arm and plastic Grace present only one real problem. The only thing I have trouble with his button in my right cough, but it makes other people's troubles inside or outside open up which I consider a blessing if all it has to be as my arm, if it's bargain joint Kevin Kling and other performers with disabilities Sunday, May 10th at 7 p.m. At the Fitzgerald theater closing event of Beyond Affliction call 290-1221 for tickets programming on NPR supported by Kare 11 News the recipient of the Edward R Murrow award for overall excellence in television the forecast for the state of Minnesota today. Probably mostly sunny skies high temperature is right around 60 and the arrowhead upper 70s in the Marshall area. Look for increasing clouds in Thief River Falls in Fargo-Moorhead tonight with a slight chance of a shower there Department cloudy elsewhere overnight lows 35 near Duluth and red around 50 in Burlington tomorrow Rochester since should see mostly sunny skies are the most cloudy Sky the chance of showers elsewhere may be a thunderstorm in South Western and Central Minnesota highest tomorrow middle 60s in the Northwestern part of the state right around 80 in the Southeast cities today, mostly sunny a high of 70 to 75 clear tonight a low of 47, mostly sunny tomorrow and warmer look for a high of 75 to 80 at last report of the Twin Cities sunny skies and a temperature of 61 degrees at noon today the second in a four-part series of documentaries on the history of disability in this country. It's called Beyond Affliction. Today's installment is titled What's work got to do with it focusing on the problems faced by disabled adults who enter the workforce that's coming up at noon today as part of midday time now is 26 minutes before 12 noon. This is midday, Minnesota Public Radio. I'm through with an l e in today for Gary. Eichten Howard. Sinker is our guest NPR Sports commentator. State News editor at the Star Tribune were talking about the vote today going on in North Carolina about whether to approve public financing for a Twins stadium. They're almost at Twins stadium in North Carolina and the impact that would have or not have on a possible move by the twins if you have some thoughts to 276 thousand is the number of the Twin Cities or one 800-242-2828 is the toll free number I mentioned about 20-25 minutes ago Howard about Senator Majority Leader Rodger Moe talking with the Carl pohlad some kind of negotiation any idea what they could be talking about. You know, it's just I did could be anything. It could be, you know Carl if you bide your time in the legislature meets in when the legislature meets in 1999 with a new governor and maybe some better will toward your team. Maybe we can get things done providing. You meet a b c and d here's how much money you have. To put up here's what you have to not say to people. I mean Rodger Moe is it is it is one of the few people in the state decide from a governor who can talk to the poet family that way because he can he he's one of the tastemakers on this issue but no one person can swing it. It's going to have to be a Consortium of elected officials and Business Leaders. I think he'll bring the twins back there almost you know, who keep the twins in Minnesota Merle from Burnsville Burnsville. Rather. Go ahead if your guests could give us a little history lesson on what took place. Why did we move out of Bloomington other Med Center? And what were the what were the objectives in building the Metrodome in the first place? And how do we find ourselves? What was not realize that we that's from them? That's a great thing wrong. When I remember one of the things that happened is the Metrodome was primarily built for the Vikings. And for the University of Minnesota is to bring their football team's downtown by Calvin Griffith went Kicking and Screaming. He had to be convinced that this was a good idea this idea of playing baseball indoors and he basically ran into a into a into a situation where everyone else was telling him. This is what's going to have to be done. You're going to have to bring in more Revenue than you can dream of here at met stadium and griffith very reluctantly went along kind of telling people have not sure if this baseball thing will work and the Metrodome which had a heck of a time getting through the legislature back in the late seventies that of the financing a lot of the same argument you here now, we're voiced back then and it finally did get approved. And remember we were talking about. Oh, I think it was a 50 million dollar Stadium. Did come in on budget and even adjusted for inflation that that's cheap by contemporary ballpark standards. But Calvin really didn't want to move downtown and he certainly didn't want to move indoors and right when the Metrodome opened in 82, that's when when their lease was negotiated. There was an out clause which he tried to take advantage of right away Calvin Griffith. Escena was a hero for bringing the twins to Minnesota in 1960, but he didn't really have the community ties. So it really wasn't a big deal for him to be entertaining options from out-of-town. Remember the Tampa Bay Tampa Bay baseball group thought they had the twins they put down $100,000 in earnest money in 1983 and it got to the point back. Then we're disc jockeys on radio stations in the Tampa area were talking about last night score of the Tampa twins. And people from Vancouver thought the team was coming out there there were six or seven suitors that came through town and Calvin saw himself getting real rich and then pull that stepped up. I mean really people didn't know that this was going to happen and then suddenly there's a new local owner the team stays put and Carl rides around the Metrodome in the back of a car and everything was beautiful before we take some more cause I want to ask you about Minnesota attorney general. Skip Humphrey is a challenging the antitrust exemption in Major League Baseball parent Lee has a direct bearing on whether it's Wednesday or leave it as a court action tomorrow call the court hearing on what the score of the investigation be about. What's your take on the mr. Humphries challenge of antitrust? He's running for governor. I mean, I'm not sure how much you know right now trying to save the twins is going to help them at the poles. He's doing what he has to do is the chief legal guy in the state. He's the Attorney General. He's got to look in it into every possible at And he's basically saying you know what, I mean that the argument is at the twins done everything in good faith to meet the terms of the lease. So should they be allowed to escape and you know, they the antitrust exemption is it is that sort of virtual bat the people swing whenever they're angry about baseball whenever they're angry about something with the major leagues does alright the Howard from an audio the next caller. Go ahead. I used to be interested in the Major League sport tonight. I've lost my interest almost completely and my feeling has been that end in following, you know, where teams going all the way in fighting. I think the major thing about Major League Sports is they attract the gambling element and they also attract the the gangsters and the mafia. And as soon as you get them into town you start to see the the crime rate go up the drugs everything else follows. It did. I I guess it wouldn't bother me too much if it left the Twin Cities were only two and a half hours from there. And it's I don't think it's wholesome. I don't think any of this for the major sports are wholesome. I think they're they're all painted and there's just too much gambling and things like that going on in the background that course we don't hear about and you know, but I think it's happening. I really have nothing to say to that. They would be in any way shape or form articulate other than the mafia gangsters and drugs are nothing that I've heard associated with the Minnesota Twins, you know, there's a bad element and everything that comes through town and I'm I'm sure all those casinos that are open. State two haven't attracted to other nefarious element either. I'm sure whenever a shopping mall open the nefarious element stays away because they would rather be clustered outside the Metrodome eating hot dogs. I'm not sure what Howard's point was but whatever. He said, I'm against it. Ok, Paul for being very go ahead the media the owners than the politicians who support a new stadium. What did they think of Jay winners today at dismiss him. He seems to be a cool place in the discussion. That's why I'm going to make There's no there's no market for them anywhere. If that's the case. Would it be more honest to redefine the question right? Now? What can we do not to keep the twins here? But help with a better team that is to spend the money that the only one spent another question if user fees could support the stadium and all that. No taxes are needed. Why does a question have to go before the legislature? Why couldn't advisor go to the owners and they look you can do it this way and it would do it that way. Those are my three questions. First of all star reporter for the Star Tribune. Nobody said that there's a place for logic excellent reporting and good sense. And in the debate, I mean wiener has really laid out the issues in a thoroughly educated interesting and informative manner to use all the superlatives. I can think of right now, but do you know that's that's for the public that's of the public understands the issue. That's not necessarily for the leaders who have their reasons for for taking the positions that they thought they take a user fees are essentially taxes. I mean, you can't say we're going to have a you know, $2 ticket tax without getting some kind of government approval same thing if those user fees are connected to an expansion of of of gambling. So I hope that answers that question and what can we do to put a better team on the field? That's that's where the new ownership comes in. That's where a group with with deeper pockets and commitment has to step up and say something like Clark Griffith did when he when he put together his group. We're not going to spend blindly and wildly we're going to spend money to put a competitive product on the field. We don't want to come before the legislature right now to get a new stadium. We want to earn your stripes with you and then let's talk about what we can do to to better compete in in baseball environment. Give on the field the twins are 12 and 18. It's about four hundred balls or five and a half out is a level of Interest any different this year based on all the off-the-field stuff here based on attendance figures out of things and also What affected the team's performance. Do you think having if it all in North Carolina and their decision whether or not to approve this is the time of year when the weeknight games and some of the Sunday afternoon games would draw, you know, 1011. It's a little it's it it's less than usually the season ticket sales down and truly Advance ticket sales not going particularly. Well not going as well as the people with the twins would like or as well as it would go under neutral or winning condition. If this team was 18 and 12 people would be looking at their schedules right now and thinking the Yankees are coming in this weekend. That might be fun time to go to a game. Right. Now you just don't hear people talking like that, you know part of it is we're just getting over the Timberwolves right now. And it's it just baseball hasn't really captured us. But the problem was the first team continues goat winning 12 out of every 30 games come July or August the crowds aren't going to be much different than they are right now and they just give me the score and they just want something that says Major League, you know, the people who care they don't care whether it's the Minnesota Twins or you know, 25 imposters right area Rochester spent a lot of time on this issue last year when I get to the legislation for a couple of months and I am more tired and more Angry than I've ever been in my life a lot of why are we talkin about this anymore? The people of the state do not want to subsidize professional sports? They don't want to subsidize Ted Turner. They don't want to subsidize the Walt Disney Company. They don't want to subsidize room. Change it all the ship. It's going to change nothing but legislature better realize that the next election is going to be very revealing to a lot of people they don't realize how angry people are about this. This is not the legislative business professional sports is a business. We talked about this all last year. They having an election down in Carolina, which probably will lose and now we're going to talk about this again. This is this is madness. This is not the government's business the sooner. They realize that the better they will be in tune with the people of this state. That's what the people want this talk about new ownership bringing in fresh blood does nothing to me and I've Been a Long Time Sports Fan I am still live and die with the Boston Red Sox, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give him a red Cent that they don't hurt him. Let them go out and stand like most businesses. I should say most cuz it's a lot of businesses that you get subsidized by public subsidies to businesses like the Walt Disney Company Rupert Murdoch Ted Turner, and I don't care who you bringing this state. I don't care if they do public ownership what they call public ownership was really would be private ownership. It doesn't change anything. I'm a big sports fan, but I am turned off by professional sports watch the NCAA basketball tournament professional basketball. Anyway, okay. Thanks Terry. That's not it. That's the problem. I mean, that's the way I mean people are saying their sports fans and they don't care it is there is some of the question is as some believe that if the twins do moved in there with an ash in wailing that when I we need a team back to you know, give us what we had who knows what the terms would be to get a new team. I mean look at what the prices are looking with the guarantees are look at the money. They had to spend to build stadiums in Arizona and in an insane in Tampa st. Petersburg. I mean nothing could come back as cheaply as it's going out and it really you know you have to do right now is a trend seems to be have to spend a whole lot of money in order to put a first-rate winning team on the field Boston Red Sox pay $80 80 million dollars to sign Pedro Martinez from spends money left Center and right now needs more money from the people. There's going to be a shake out where there has to be where it where people are going to realize we can't be spending this kind of money and Will new owners be in position to put to a stoolie put together a good team. Who knows time for just a couple more calls or KY in St. Paul. Go ahead. I'm sorry to say it seems that eventually all the money that these teens raise gets funneled pretty quick and arrives in the salaries of the players. That's pretty much a dead horse. That's close cuz everybody knows that but them, how are there a little bit earlier that the Cleveland Indians are saying that losing money again after they built the new stadium the Marlins won the World Series few years back after they can all got some Marquee players for whole lot of money and it just seems that eventually it just comes back around in a big circle that the the players that was robbed and they need my money in and they eventually pay to sell the players more and it kind of the public to ask for more Mike and it seems to me hear, Minnesota. We've had you know who cares of the twins leave Head Start of fuel die in a way the sort of the love Force Powersports. I live within I can see the lights of the Saint Paul Saints field from my house and the place is packed every night. They play in the summer and if we're going to spend a lot of money for sports why I mean what to serve alcohol in their blood supply to wrap up a few days ago. It's from a gentleman who is opposed to putting tax money to Stadium. His name is Paul Gibson. He's a member of the baseball park Authority in Carolina and what he said during this forum is that the business of baseball is somehow flood that it cannot produce its product and put it on the Plainfield and compete for entertainment dollars. You have to have public subsidy in order to compete. In an open market and I think that tells you there's something basically wrong with the business of baseball. We're not looking at 1998 or 1999 earlier if the twins stay in Minnesota, whoever comes together to save the team has to be looking 10-15 years up the road or maybe even five years up the road when Financial conditions are different when the pendulum ships backed shifts back towards greater responsibility. I mean, you can pay these people half of what they're being paid right now for the most part they still be considered overpaid and yet economically the sports to be viable and everyone would be happy. That's what we have to be looking to not getting involved in the current economic environment a baseball because it really stinks, Saint Paul your question or comment. I've got a common I guess it looks like all the comments or so to Rolling In One Direction here and and and and I would agree with it. I guess I just an observation which is that and I think the Proponents of keeping the twins here and building the stadium in the pool at Family really come to the fans and to the citizens of the state said you owe us and you know, I think the message that maybe has a quite come across but you think it would have by now is that the fans even and for sure the citizens and the politicians even and others are saying no Carl. We don't know you and here's why I think and that is because you know the fans and the citizens have really supported by these four teams over a long. Of time and because we have those assets the Risen in value and those that those assets are not in the hands of the citizens are the fans but in the hands of the owners and suddenly, you know, what used to be kind of a local. Business in a lot of loyalty on both sides has become kind of globalized owners are living off of money that comes from a lot of different places, but not local or through television, whatever and you know, I think the fans and the citizens realize that and you know, we feel that they owe us and and I think that's a legitimate feeling and and it's it's further kind of rankles people when they Feel the Noize. It is an owner saying you owe us but the owners thing and if you don't pay up, I'm working to take the acid that you helped build and move it. I think so we have to wrap up a store called final comment on that or something else our no, No, seriously. You have a crummy product and people aren't going to support it. And then, you know, you have a choice of improving your product and recapturing your audience or taking your crummy Pro. Somewhere else and trying to sell it. I mean this is like I need information what happens when the US automakers were making cars that kind of started falling apart after about 50,000 miles and suddenly everybody was buying foreign cars. Now, you know, my van has 90000 miles on it and it's going really well and that they realize that they couldn't keep putting an inferior product on the streets and that's the situation with the trends with twins right now. They were winning if they were a threat to go to the World Series we would care a lot more like five and a half out the cat Ferry and they have no credibility from the playing field in the front office are a thanks a lot NPR Sports commentator Howard Sinker enjoyed having you again today always a pleasure right then thanks to all the colors. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Ray Suarez many AIDS activists are outraged at the government's decision to uphold a ban on federal funding for needle exchange programs. This is like refusing through a life jacket to a drowning person. We need Federal resources to extinguish the epidemic of HIV infection among injection drug users David Harvey of the AIDS policy Center will look at the controversy over syringe swapping on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Listen for Talk of the Nation this afternoon at 1 right here on Minnesota Public Radio. It's 6 minutes before noon. Here is Garrison Keillor