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PERRY FINELLI: Good morning. With news from Minnesota Public Radio, I'm Perry Finelli. The US Census Bureau reports Minnesota's population rose nearly 1% between July 1 of 1995 and July of last year. The estimated growth of 0.9% in Minnesota led the five-state area. Wisconsin was next with a 0.7% increase.

A robbery gone awry may have led to a triple shooting that left two men dead and one wounded early today at a Minneapolis pool Hall. Minneapolis Police are investigating the incident that happened at Hayden, Billiards shortly after 4 o'clock this morning.

A federal law that takes effect January 1 bans the use of race as a factor in choosing adoptive families for children. In Minnesota and some other states, adoption caseworkers have avoided placing Black children in white homes, believing it's better to match the child with a family of the same race.

Advocates of the new law say race matching has led to longer waits for Black children in the foster system because of a shortage of Black adoptive families. But Lester Collins of the Council of Black Minnesotans says social service agencies do a poor job of recruiting and supporting Black adoptive families.

LESTER COLLINS: Frankly, the system has not known how to recruit them, and the system itself is still largely a white male run institution. And I contend that is and has been the challenge.

PERRY FINELLI: Black children make up 21% of the children in Minnesota's foster care system, four times the percentage of Black children in the state. There is a snow advisory for far Northwestern Minnesota into the early afternoon, a snow advisory for much of Northeastern Minnesota this evening, and a winter weather advisory for East Central Minnesota today.

Twin cities could see a chance of light snow under cloudy skies and a high in the teens. Right now, in the metro area, cloudy skies and 13. And that's the news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Perry Finelli.

PAULA SCHROEDER: It's 10:06 o'clock. This is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio.

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Seven white suburban Twin Cities men face trial in January on federal charges related to selling cocaine. Nathaniel Khaliq says the treatment of the white men all released on bond while they await trial is another example of the double standard authorities apply to whites compared to minorities. Today on our Voices of Minnesota interview, we'll hear from Nathaniel Khaliq.

The 53-year-old Saint Paul native is president of the city's NAACP chapter. He's a longtime community activist and anti-drug crusader. The charge of a double standard by Khaliq and other African-American leaders caused federal officials to start an examination of their bail bond procedures. Nathaniel Khaliq talked recently with Minnesota Public Radio's Chris Roberts.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You said their arrest and release on bail reveals a double standard. What is that?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, at the time, we felt that the system, once again, was showing that justice is not color blind in cases involving white defendants and cases involving Black defendants dealing with drugs. We cited a case with how a young man by the name of Walter Taylor was dealt with some years ago when he was arrested, charged, and convicted for selling 5.7 grams of crack to an undercover agent.

these were accumulative buys. And he was charged under state statute and released on $25,000 bail and then rearrested by federal authorities and held in federal detention for almost one year and received five years.

CHRIS ROBERTS: So the double standard is, these guys are getting released on bond and the same isn't happening with African-American people who are charged with similar crimes.

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: And the bond was a signature bond, so they didn't have to come up with any cash money. And we cited some other cases and clearly felt that at the time, it was a double standard. It was cited that these men were members of the community, that they were businessmen, and there has been Black drug defendants who fit the same criteria but wasn't given the same consideration.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Have you since changed your opinion on this? Do you still feel the same way? I understand you had a meeting with Federal Prosecutor Lillehaug recently.

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I've changed my opinion probably on this particular case because we were given what we believe to be a reasonable explanation for the particular case involving the seven white defendants. But we still feel that the system is unjust in dealing with black drug defendants.

And a lot of it is because of the federal law, the 100 and-- 100 to 1 ratio for crack versus, powdered cocaine. And then just how-- even on the streets out here, how police stop and search many more Black suspects than they do white.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What do you think are the assumptions that mainstream society, meaning white society, carries about the war on drugs which don't jive with reality?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, I think there's a couple of perceptions. One is that Black folks, young Black men, are mainly responsible for the drug problem here in this country. That secondly, that Black folks are paranoid, and we're caught up in this conspiracy frenzy because of the involvement of the CIA and Oliver North, when, in fact, all of this is a reality.

The CIA is and was involved with trafficking drugs to America. The other thing is that there is a conspiracy when people in a position of power know that certain things are going on and they fail to act. So if they're not part of the problem-- part of the solution, they're definitely part of the problem.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What do we know about the internal structure of the crack-cocaine trade in this country? Do you think the people who are at the top are mainly white?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, there's not a doubt in my mind, and I think there's not a doubt in most reasonable thinking people's minds that the people that are calling the shots, the people that are trafficking the drugs, bringing them to our borders, the people that are laundering the money, I think of businesses like long Cadillac and others, are definitely white. We don't have the financial, the political, or the social means to carry on an operation like that at such a large scale.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Can we say that most of the people who are selling crack on the street are African-American?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I think we are the most obvious. And any inner city you go to across America, you will see young brothers and in some cases sisters out there selling drugs. So we are the most obvious in the line of the drug sellers. But we are getting the least benefits from our efforts in catching the most hell without a doubt.

CHRIS ROBERTS: The street level sellers who may be predominantly Black in some parts of the country, they can still make a decision on their own to have nothing to do with the drug trade. So I'm wondering how you analyze the role of personal responsibility on this issue.

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I think personal responsibility is certainly an absolute reality that young brothers and sisters that are out there selling drugs have to come to grips with. In my mind, first of all, with the disclosure by the San Jose paper on the CIA involvement in drugs, these young brothers and sisters have to realize-- and some of us have been saying this for years already, but now the proof is out there and it's irrefutable.

And that is that if you're out here selling dope, selling that-- and it's poison. It's poison that has caused the disease that we've never known before. And if you're out there involved in that trade, then you're a tool and an instrument for the man, for the very people that many of us accuse of being our oppressor, you're an instrument for him and you're involved in the destruction of our community.

And so I don't justify that. We can't condone it because I don't know of a family-- I do not know of a family, and I know a lot of people, that have not been touched by crack. And so we're caught between a rock and a hard place. I mean, we're involved in a Civil War because of this war on drugs.

Because many of the people that I've been involved in and other community activists have been involved in going against our lifelong friends, relatives, or relatives or friends that we know. And so we drew a line in the sand some time ago saying that it's unacceptable. It's something that we have to come to grips with.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Why would the CIA want to anesthetized an entire population, placate an entire population?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, I don't think that it was their intent, and I don't think they gave a damn one way or the other about the effects that it was going to have on the Black community. I think the bottom line was for political reasons, that they wanted to secure funds for the Contras. And by any means necessary, they were going to get that money.

And so someone had a great idea in their mind that this was a way of raising money. And then maybe someone else thought, well, not only is it a good way of raising money for the Contras, but it's a good way to control the Black community.

It's a good way to build a large criminal justice system that has turned into a money-hungry system that's just sucking up all kinds of resources out of the communities in this country. It's employing a lot of people, and it's probably the fastest growing industry in this country.

And so I think for all of the reasons above, that it ended up being a good idea. But I don't think that was the initial intent. And I don't think we need to waste a lot of time arguing about whether that was their intent. What we need to do is to try to dig up as much information to prove that it actually happened and that they had knowledge of it.

CHRIS ROBERTS: If that information is dug up and it turns out irrefutably to everybody that it's true, and I know you believe it's true, what do you think should be done about it?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I think we should ask for reparations. Our communities have been devastated. Lives have been destroyed. Little babies have died in the womb as a result of this. And I think the United States government should be held accountable. And even if that means taking them to the United Nations or to an International Court, we need to get what's coming to us because it's definitely have had a devastating effect on us.

PAULA SCHROEDER: You're listening to an interview with Nathaniel Khaliq, the president of the Saint Paul chapter of the NAACP. He's talking with Minnesota Public Radio's Chris Roberts as part of our Voices of Minnesota interview series here on Midmorning. Programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by 3M, who generously matches more than 900 employee contributions to Minnesota Public Radio.

We do have a snow advisory in effect for Northwestern and much of Northeastern Minnesota today, and we could see 3 to 7 inches of snow in the Northeast, lesser amounts in the Northwest today. Otherwise, it'll be mainly cloudy with some periods of freezing rain and snow in the central part of the state. Highs from 5 below in the North to the low 20s in the South today. Let's return now to Chris Roberts conversation with Nathaniel Khaliq.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Let's say you have a friend who lives in some other part of the country and is contemplating moving here and wants to know about race relations here. What would you say to that person? How would you describe race relations in Minnesota?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, I would tell them that there's a perception that everything is well here, but that that's really not the reality. We have some problems here. And this is a place, if you want to succeed and stay to yourself and keep your eyes and ears and mouth shut, you can probably make it in some areas.

But I think it's difficult because we are in the distinct minority here. We don't have a lot of political cloud. And even though we have African-Americans in the position of power and authority, Sharon Sayles, Belton, and Chief Finney, the coaches that we have here, Greene and Haskins and so forth, and several Blacks now are heading foundations, we're still catching hell.

Because I think it's-- that looks good on top, but on the bottom, people are still catching hell. The average brothers out here in the street are still being pulled over and harassed by the police. We're locking up more African-Americans here in Minnesota than any other state. We're giving people more time for the same crimes. The media still stereotyping us.

And so it goes on and on and on. And plus, the education system here as far as the rate of African-Americans that graduate from school is not among the best, even though it's among the highest for white students. And then I think when you look at the poverty rates, it's appalling for a place like Minnesota that has one of the lowest unemployment rates. And so there's a lot of pockets of segregation. There's Miseducation.

And so there's some problems, including in the lending institutions. There was a study done by the Institute on race and poverty at the University of Minnesota that showed in Saint Paul, that poor whites in two of the lowest income census area had a better chance of purchasing a home than middle class Blacks. So we have a lot of work to do here in Minnesota.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you think another part of the problem is the fact that people in this part of the country consider themselves pretty progressive folks and they perceive themselves not to be racist like other areas of the country, such as the South, let's say?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, I was born and raised here, and I used to think this was the land of milk and honey for Black folks, until I went to the South. And when I went to the south, I saw brothers running businesses, owning businesses. I saw construction sites where the majority of the people working on them and residential and commercial were brothers. And up here, there was people that had educations that was delivering mail or working as porters.

And so I don't think we can compare Minnesota to the South because it's a lot more progressive down there. Even the White politicians are a lot more progressive and willing to take more risks and chances because in their mind, I believe that they've experienced that ugly life of Jim Crow and segregation and so forth. And up here, we're still asleep.

CHRIS ROBERTS: While we're on the subject of where you were born and raised, was it Saint Paul or Minneapolis?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I was born in Saint Paul.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What was your childhood like? Describe your family for me. Was it a happy childhood?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, it was somewhat happy. I was raised by my grandparents. I never knew my father. And we were raised on Rondo, on lower Rondo. And so that was a great experience. And by the time I had a chance to live with my mother, she was a struggling single parent and did the best that she could do. But we had some good times back then.

And one of the differences, I know a lot of times I tell my kids about the war stories of walking to school and how easy things are for young people now, but they're really not easier when I compare how we were raised and the different options and opportunities that we had then compared to now.

Back then, we got 3, 4, 5, and 6 chances to act a fool and get involved and stuff, and we ended up landing on our feet. Today it's much more difficult for these young brothers. And we had a lot more options. Even though college was something that wasn't discussed a lot, but there was college, there was trade school, there was the service, and there was a ton of manufacturing jobs within the city.

And so when young people get out of school today, they don't have all those options available. And if you're out here and you trip up and you get involved in the criminal justice system, it could affect you for the rest of your life.

CHRIS ROBERTS: In your youth, I think I heard you mentioned that you dabbled in drugs a little bit when you were younger, drug dealing. What led you down that path and how did you break free? What saved you.

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: I wasn't driven to it because I lived in poverty or because I lived in the projects or because I didn't have a father or because I was raised in a ghetto or anything like that. It was a decision that I decided-- I made and had to live with.

And at the time, I was really naive and stupid and didn't really give much thought to what I was doing. I was just reacting to something that was out there. The thing that pulled me out of it-- an-- I even messed with drugs up to the point when I was a young adult, it was just by the grace of God that I was introduced-- even though I had a notion about Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad and at the time, the nation of Islam, that was enough to grab my attention and turn me in the opposite direction.

And so I am still and will always be forever thankful to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad because I think he's the one that planted the seed for many Black men. Even though we give a lot of credit to Malcolm X, it was Elijah Muhammad. But ultimately, it was a lie that decided to pull me up from the grave of ignorance and self destruction and put me on the right path. And I have been-- as a result of that, I have been showered with many blessings.

CHRIS ROBERTS: We know you as a frontline neighborhood preservationist, a civil rights activist, and an anti-drug campaigner. I've heard you say time and time again that you've been let down by law enforcement. That a while ago, you thought you had a partnership with law enforcement, and now you don't feel that way. What happened to that relationship?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, I think we were naive. Early on, it was the Black community, we put out the call about the drugs and the gangs that was coming when it was just concentrated in our area and it fell on deaf ears. And we notified everybody from the city council at that time and all the way up to the President of the United States.

And then when they decided that they were going to commit to the war on drugs when it started affecting their businesses and their communities and so forth, we thought that we was going to track these people responsible at whatever level and hold them accountable. And that wasn't the case. A lot of them fell through the cracks, and a lot of us was held to a much higher standard.

And I think the other thing is that those young people and others that are standing out on the corner, we thought we had the commitment that these people that are sick and that are selling drugs to feed their habit would not be treated as criminals, but would be treated as someone with a disease and get the necessary treatment.

And so now we have all these crackdowns and raids on people's homes and so forth and people being illegally stopped and searched on the street. And time, after time, after time again, they're black males. They're being strip searched. If they would go to any other community and deal with people like they deal with us, there would be a national outrage. And it's not--

CHRIS ROBERTS: Your house has been firebombed in the past. What did that attack do to your spirits? Did it make you consider becoming less outspoken? What effect did that have on you?

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, it really concerned me, and it concerned me to the point where I was trying to look at a different approach because I was concerned about my family, the safety of my family. It happened at about 3:00 AM in the morning when I was at work at the fire station.

But being a Muslim, I am an optimist, and I'm not one that can live in fear by anyone or anybody but Allah. And so I felt that and still feel that He will protect us and He will guide us. And so harm will come to me if it's not His will nor will any good come to me if it's not His will.

But the thing that disturbed me most about that incident was that the police never took a police report. There was never-- initially, it wasn't investigated. The media initially passed it off as just a little small incident and prank. And that sort of woke me up to what the authorities thought about Black folks in general and about US in particular.

CHRIS ROBERTS: When you look to the future-- you're going to be here in Minnesota, are there any things that make you optimistic.

NATHANIEL KHALIQ: Well, as I said earlier, as a Muslim, I'm eternally optimistic. I think that there's a lot of well meaning people here in Minnesota, but they have to be heard. I think they've been relatively silent. And I think there's well meaning people in law enforcement and throughout the criminal justice system.

And at some point in time, we have to somehow connect with these well meaning people because I believe that there is a God And so therefore, I believe that there are many more well meaning people than not. At the point in time that we come together and take the action that's necessary based on what's just and fair, then we can turn this whole thing around.

But right now, when people hear about Minnesota being progressive and so forth, it's progressive. But it's progressive for women, and progressive for gays and lesbians, but it's not progressive for people of color. It's regressive.

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PAULA SCHROEDER: Nathaniel Khaliq, president of the Saint Paul chapter of the NAACP, talking with Chris Roberts. Our Voices of Minnesota interview is heard nearly every Monday at this time as part of Midmorning. The intern is Brian Bull. The producer for the series is Dan Olson.

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LINDA WERTHEIMER: I'm Linda Wertheimer. Rick Scott and his company, Columbia HCA, now own 350 hospitals. He says health care and good business are compatible.

RICK SCOTT: You will want to come to a Columbia facility because you'll know that you're part of a system that has very good measurements and it's worried about you as a patient.

LINDA WERTHEIMER: The business of healthcare and the news later today on NPR'S All Things considered.

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PAULA SCHROEDER: All Things Considered at 3:00 o'clock this afternoon here on Minnesota Public Radio. Today's programming is sponsored in part to honor Neil and Natalie Kennedy of Williamsburg, Virginia, who celebrate their very first wedding anniversary today. Congratulations. It's before 11:00. This is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Paula Schroeder.

Well, there are just a couple of days left in 1996 to make those tax deductible contributions, but chances are this is the time of year when money is tightest after all the expenditures around the holidays. It's much better to plan charitable giving ahead of time, not only to get those tax deductions, but to help the communities and causes you care about.

If you're a woman, you are more likely to give time and energy than dollars. This despite the US Census Bureau figures that show women owned 60% of the wealth in the United States and represent 43% of individuals with assets of a half a million dollars or more.

Businesses owned by women employ more people than fortune 500 companies, and they are moving up the corporate ladder. Some of those women are beginning to recognize themselves as philanthropists with the financial wherewithal to contribute to those causes they care about.

But it is a beginning trend, and here to tell us more about it is Gigi Fourré Schumacher, who is a senior development officer for the College of Saint Benedict in Saint Joseph, Minnesota. She just completed a $30 million capital campaign for the Catholic Liberal Arts Women's School, much of it donated by women. So, Gigi, you're an expert in this particular category.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Well, it's certainly our primary constituent base, that's for sure.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. Well, you're talking about, of course, approaching women who have attended Saint Ben's and asking them to give money to help support the school.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Yes.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Is this something new, being able to raise this much money?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I'd say it's certainly something new for the College of Saint Benedict. It's only our second capital campaign. In our first capital campaign, we raised 5,000-- or $5 million, rather. So this was almost six times the amount of that. So we had some professionals who we met with who we did a bit of a feasibility study, asked whether or not they felt like these were the kinds of dollars we could raise.

And initially, they thought that that was really too big of an investment in terms of our being able to raise that kind of money. However, we were successful far beyond what we had hoped. Our goal was 26 million and we did raise over 30 million.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Wow. Yeah. Beyond your wildest dreams.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: It was.

PAULA SCHROEDER: What's accounting for that? What do you think is prompting women to start donating more money.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Well, I think part of the reasons, an important reason is, women are earning more money than they have in the past. So women as wage earners feel that they have more ability to make some decisions regarding their discretionary income.

Another is that we're asking. And I think in the past, we haven't asked. And for folks who do a lot of research with philanthropy, both with women and men, they can tell you that the reason people give is that they are asked to give. So we certainly asked more of our alums, as well as our friends and parents and families to give and to invest in the College of Saint Benedict than we had in the past. And that was a large reason for our success.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Now, this isn't a trend only for women's colleges, but across the board pretty much, isn't it, that women are starting to see themselves more as philanthropists, as people who, as you said, not only have the ability, but the desire to donate money to exactly to--

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Exactly.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --organizations?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: We're learning a lot about what philanthropy means. I don't think it's necessarily a household word, philanthropy. We used to talk about giving money away, which when you think about that, that's not really a very empowering statement or thought. Who wants to give their money away?

But to invite women and men to consider how they would like to invest their philanthropic dollars, that's a whole different spin on philanthropic giving. Philanthropy comes from the root word Greek meaning to give or to love and anthropos man. So it's to love humankind, to give back to the community.

And so it's less of a business sense, I think, for women. It's less of a business decision. It's really an opportunity to give from their heart and to be able to align their values in a way that's efficient and effective through charitable giving.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Is that what you see as the main difference between men and women when it comes to charitable giving?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: In terms of giving from the heart?

PAULA SCHROEDER: Mhm.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I think there are some differences in terms of our relationship with whatever cause that we're investing in. I think that we feel and want to be involved in what we give to. So I think the component in terms of being involved and volunteering for a particular organization may have a little bit more importance for women than for men.

PAULA SCHROEDER: I know that you say and a lot of other people who are watching this who gives money or say that women traditionally have given, as I said, time and energy. That they feel much more comfortable organizing bake sales than they do getting out the checkbook and writing a check.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: That's right.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, obviously, there are more women in the workforce now, but is that tradition still very strong? Is it difficult to break that?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I think it is difficult. And I think in part, it's just our cultural roots. I mean, back-- some people say that women's philanthropy is the last frontier of the women's movement, and there are others who suggest that really it's just a return to volunteerism and activism at the beginning of this country.

So that we as women have always had a profound impact on society, and it's just how we are going to make that difference. And given in the last 20 or 25 years, women have made such remarkable changes and differences in the workplace and in their earning power. In a way, this is just a logical next step that we would begin to demonstrate leadership in the philanthropic community.

PAULA SCHROEDER: I think a lot of women probably don't think of themselves, and a lot of men as well, as philanthropists, unless they can give $10,000 or $20,000 to an organization. What do you call a philanthropist?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I call a philanthropist anyone who gives of their time and money. And I think that's really an important point because most of us, or at least many of us, over 50% of the population, do make some charitable gifts. But I would say if you were to ask most people walking down the streets of downtown Saint Paul today, are you a philanthropist? They would say no.

So that our way of thinking, we really are about a paradigm shift in terms of just understanding what philanthropy is all about and who are philanthropists? And so if I give $100 a year, I really am a philanthropist. Or if I help with my daughter's Girl Scout troop or whatever that might be, I give of my volunteer time, I am going about the business of loving humankind.

PAULA SCHROEDER: When you talk to women about donating money-- and you're in there asking for money-- you said earlier that one of the most difficult things to do was to ask, what are some of the other barriers that you have to get across?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I think that for women, there's this sense of, if I'm really interested in their person and their life, where are we talking about money? I mean, there's this sense of, that's more the business component. It's less personal. And so I just think a natural inclination for many women is to be able to offer their expertise, their time. They will give of their passion, but there's been this missed connection regarding making a significant financial contribution. So something over and above the $100 or the $250.

So to ask a woman to make a gift of $10,000-- I think that initially, when we were going about this campaign, there was a discomfort, which I don't think was about their not wanting to do it, but it's just newer for women. Fewer women have been approached. And who among us feels comfortable with something the first time we've done it? No one, really.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah, right.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: So it's just-- it's learning about it, being comfortable with it. And I was at a focus group not too long ago with a national expert who was in town talking with some of our people, and one of the conclusions we were initially coming to is, well, women don't really talk about money. And then we realized, oh, we do, but we don't talk about how to grow a large gift. What can I do to make a gift of $10,000?

We tend to think-- I think in part just because of what our historic cultural roles have been, how can we save money? How can we-- where's the greatest buy? Where is the greatest deal? And so it's just-- it's a switch for us to think big about money and giving it away, investing it.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah, in a charitable cause. Well, I want to invite listeners to call in too. If you have some thoughts about what motivates you to give and what are some of the things that you look for when you're making a contribution, give us a call here in the Twin Cities at 227-6000 or toll free at 1-800-242-2828. 227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828. When you're approaching women to give, do you see a generational difference?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I would say definitely. One of the things that we're seeing-- and I don't think this is just with women, I think it's with women and men, and that is that younger women-- and I would put younger-- this is a little risky here on the air. But younger women in their 40s and younger than that, I don't think we have necessarily been taught or educated about philanthropy the same as women who are in their 50s or 60s or certainly older 70s and 80s.

I think there was a culture before that giving was just simply the right thing to do, and you did it. And I know that when I met with prospective donors for this capital campaign which we completed, in talking with women about how they made those kinds of decisions, they seem to make them based on it was something that they'd learned at home.

So I'd say even 90% of women, how did you come to make this decision? Why are you choosing to make this gift to the college? Because my parents modeled it for me. And for those who didn't give, I think that there just hasn't been a place where they've learned about it.

And so really, whose burden is it to be teaching about philanthropy? If it's not happening as much in the homes and with children or what I'll call the younger, somewhat younger generation, I think it behooves us or it means that there are going to be others who are going to need to do this educating, whether it's educational institutions, development officers like myself, we need to partner with tax accountants and financial planners and attorneys.

And we're kind of mixing and partnering with a lot of different professionals to be able to spread the word about philanthropy, its advantages, the good reasons for doing it. Because obviously, there are financial reasons as well and good benefits in addition to the feeling good about it.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. Right. I've heard too that one of the generational differences might be that older women, those in their 70s in particular and above, tend to hand over the financial decision making to a man, whether it's a husband or a financial advisor of some kind.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: That's correct. So that women own the majority of the wealth, but it's not necessarily managed by women.

PAULA SCHROEDER: And so that makes a difference about where that money goes.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: It certainly does, which again, is another reason for us to be partnering with the attorneys, with the advisors, with the other family members who are working with this particular individual who has significant wealth.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. Do you think that it's going to make much difference when you were talking about the need to educate people about philanthropy, the changes that the government has made in terms of the funding that's going to public radio and public television and the arts and social programs?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Right. The fact is that we will give to social causes regardless. It will either be-- those decisions will either be made at our discretion or the government will make those. And so as the government cuts back, in a way, it's an opportunity for the private sector to again, take up the motivation and the drive to be able to direct those dollars, to raise those dollars, and to invest in where the people feel that it's important, not necessarily where the government does.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. I want to go back to what you were saying about people not having that modeling done in their homes. Do you think that culturally in the United states, people are not encouraged to be philanthropists?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: I don't know that we're not encouraged. Certainly, we live in a consumerist society, and so we live in a high paced, high tech, we came out of the '80s the me, me, me. And I'm not sure that we've completely lost our philanthropic roots, but I think that things really changed and there was a bit of a decline.

The encouraging news in terms of philanthropy is that every year, steadily for decades, philanthropic dollars have-- the amount of dollars have increased a bit. And so it's a very slow progression, but the positive piece is that the giving is there. Certainly, people could be giving dramatically more significant dollars than they are, and I think that's going to be the challenge in the days ahead.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. I'm always stunned when I see the figures that your organization, the College of Saint Benedict, raised $30 million in a capital campaign. There's a sign up here in downtown Saint Paul that $29 million was raised for the United Way. All these millions and millions of dollars, and the executive director of the Courage Center said on this program, there is plenty of money out there. It is amazing how much money can be raised. Does this come from individuals, corporations, foundations? Where does all the money come from?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Absolutely. By far, the largest amount is from individuals. So over 90% of the dollars who are raised come from individuals. And it's a smaller percentage that come from foundations and corporations. And I know that that particular statistic surprises the vast majority of people. They just assume it's the Rockefellers, it's the six figure incomes, and it's the corporate community or foundations that really have the money. And so what difference does my gift make? And individuals gifts are what make all the difference.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. Well, I guess that's what we say on our pledge weeks here--

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Exactly.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --every time on Minnesota Public Radio. But when people think about-- it's a little bit risky making those kinds of con-- especially if you want to really start giving in a big way, because you are dipping into your reserves, your own savings to do that. How do you respond to that?

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Well, actually, I would suggest that maybe as we begin to make giving more a part of our lifestyle, that we aren't dipping into our savings so that it becomes part of our annual budget. So what I encourage people to do is to make a plan for giving. Because if we wait around for that reserve dollar or that reserve minute, I don't know who's going to find that.

And so to be able to make a decision based on your values and know that it's a plan that you want to execute because it's the right thing to do. Because there are those who have less. Of course, there are always those who have more. But as we release our philanthropic dollars, there's just so much good that can be affected in society today.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, Gigi Schumacher, I want to thank you so much for coming in today, and congratulations on your capital campaign.

GIGI FOURRÉ SCHUMACHER: Thank you very much, Paula. It was a pleasure.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Gigi Fourré Schumacher is a senior development officer at the College of Saint Benedict in Saint Joseph, Minnesota. Just completed a $30 million capital campaign.

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It's 11 minutes before 11 o'clock. This is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. We have temperatures below zero in Thief River falls, Bemidji and International Falls. It's snowing in Duluth, 6 degrees above 0. In Saint Cloud, it's cloudy and 7 degrees. Fargo reports freezing rain and 6 degrees. And in Sioux falls, fair skies and 7 above. In the Twin cities, cloudy skies where the only one in double digits here, 13 degrees.

While his work can be seen around the world from the US seal sent to Singapore to a mausoleum in Los Angeles. In this week's odd jobs segment, Minnesota Public Radio's Laura McCallum talks with the premier Carver at Cold Spring Granite Company. He's been sculpting granite for 34 years with no special art training. He just learned on the job.

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KEN: My name is Ken [INAUDIBLE], and I do a lot of sculpture work out here for Cold Spring. A lot of carving, sandblast work, and layouts, or whatever it takes to do the carving.

[ENGINE REVVING]

I'm working with a chisel right now. Some of the older one of years back, we used a wooden hammer with a chisel and tap it off. Nowadays, we use air tools and chisels [INAUDIBLE]. Well, that piece that I'm working on right now is for capsule pieces. They're for pillars. Just carving that I'm doing right now, I would say roughly, it could take about 200 hours.

It's not like working with wood or even, let's say, like, marble and granite, there's a big difference. Marble is soft. Granite is harder. For instance, I would say if I was to carve marble, I could take a chisel and I could use the same chisel all day without sharpening it. If I use granite, within a half hour, I can sharpen my chisel again.

LAURA MCCALLUM: What are you most proud of of things you've done, say, in the past few years?

KEN: Faces. Faces are the toughest. Carve out a face and get it to look-- and make it look good.

[ENGINE REVVING]

Nice basic form of sculpturing is, my sculpturing usually turns out a little bigger than what the model is. That way, it gives me a little leeway. Either if something would go wrong, if I would chip off of corner or chip off an edge or something like that, I can always go down further. And then I got one more step. I can go down one more step yet. And still, it's not noticeable to the eye.

[ENGINE REVVING]

First of all, if you'd like to get into the field, you'd have to have a lot of patience. The more art ability you have definitely will help. It's not something that you're going to start and get through with it in about an hour. That's where the appreciation comes from. Seeing the job go through the plant is one thing, but getting to a building and seeing it all set up, that's another thing. And it's amazing to see how everything fits.

[ENGINE REVVING]

The biggest challenge is when you're young and you keep growing into it and you're wondering if you can do it. And you're lucky when it turns on. So that's the good feeling get out of it.

LAURA MCCALLUM: After working in it for this many years, do you ever make mistakes?

KEN: Hopefully not.

[LAUGHTER]

LAURA MCCALLUM: If so, we don't see them.

KEN: That's right.

[LAUGHTER]

[ENGINE REVVING]

PAULA SCHROEDER: Ken [INAUDIBLE] is a carver at Cold Spring Granite Company. He spoke with Minnesota Public Radio's Laura McCallum.

GARY EICHTEN: As the year comes to an end, there is mixed news on the managed health care front. On the one hand, cost increases seem to be slowing. But on the other hand, there seems to be a growing concern that the quality of care is suffering in the process. Hello, this is Gary Eichten, inviting you to join us for Midday.

We'll be talking with biomedical ethicist Arthur Caplan about that issue, assisted suicide, gene research, and more. Midday begins each weekday morning at 11:00 on Minnesota Public Radio, K-N-O-W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities.

PAULA SCHROEDER: And on Midday, you will hear a story on the issue of race in adoptions. A report by John Biewen. That's coming up at 11 o'clock on midday. It's 6 and 1/2 minutes now before 11:00, and this is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. Time now for Garrison Keillor and the Writer's Almanac.

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GARRISON KEILLOR: And here is the Writer's Almanac for Monday, the 30th of December, 1996. It's the birthday of Rudyard Kipling in Bombay, 1865, the author of "Gunga Din", Captains Courageous, The Jungle Books, Kim. The author of "East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

And "On the road to Mandalay, Where the Flying Fishes Play and the Dawn Comes Up Like Thunder out of China Across the Bay." And the man who wrote one of the most popular poems ever. "If-- if you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings nor lose the common touch, yours is the Earth and everything that's in it. And what is more, you'll be a man, my son."

The philanthropist Simon Guggenheim, born in Philadelphia on this day in 1867. The son of a wealthy importer of fine lace. A Jewish immigrant who'd come to this country as a street peddler and worked his way up. His son, Simon, went out to Colorado, got into politics, was elected to the US Senate, served with no particular distinction.

But he founded the John Simon Guggenheim Foundation, named for his son who had died after a mastoid operation in 1922. It granted one year fellowships in the arts, sciences, and humanities to young men and women of proven ability and gave thousands of bright people a year for study or travel or research.

It's the birthday of the Canadian humorist Stephen Leacock, born in Swanmore, Ontario, 1869. The son of a farmer. His father was alcoholic. And when Stephen was 18, he had to run his father out of town. He had a buggy whip in his hand. The boy told the old man, if you come back, I'll kill you. And he put him on a train and never saw him again. He taught political science at McGill University. He turned to writing humor to earn money.

It's the birthday of the novelist and poet Paul Bowles, born in New York City in 1910, who composed music for a time. Later moved to Tangiers on the advice of Gertrude Stein. And Africa became the inspiration for much of his work, including The Sheltering Sky.

And it's the birthday in 1928 in Magnolia, Mississippi, of Alice Bates McDaniel, better known as Bo Diddley. He was a street corner musician in Chicago as a teenager. And it was there in 1955, he cut a few records for chess records, one called Bo Diddley, and the other, I'm a Man. Here's a poem for today about the passage of time by John Crowe Ransom entitled "Blue Girls."

Twirling your blue skirts, traveling the sward

Under the towers of your seminary,

Go listen to your teachers old and contrary

Without believing a word

Tie the white fillets then about your hair

And think no more of what will come to pass

Than bluebirds that go walking on the grass

And chattering on the air

Practice your beauty, blue girls, before it fail

And I will cry with my loud lips and publish

Beauty which all our power shall never establish

It is so frail

For I could tell you a story, which is true

I know a woman with a terrible tongue

Blear eyes fallen from blue,

All her perfections tarnished-- yet it is not long

Since she was lovelier than any of you

Upon by John Crowe Ransom, "Blue Girls" from his selected poems published by Alfred Knopf. That's the Writer's Almanac for Monday, December 30th. Made possible by Cowles Enthusiast Media Publishers of early American homes and the historynet.com where history lives on the world wide web. Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

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PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, that's Midmorning for today. I'm Paula Schroeder, inviting you to tune in once again. Tomorrow we are going to be taking a look at some of the big news stories of the past year. A lot of plane crashes in the last year. Kirby Puckett had to step down from baseball, And there's lots more, of course, that went on as well.

We'll be talking with Minnesota news council executive director Gary Gilson and Minnesota Public Radio editor Bob Collins about some of those big stories. And then we're going to give you some ideas on winter recreation in Minnesota. If you don't know what to do with all this snow we've got, we'll have some great ideas for you. Be sure to tune in, and stay tuned now for Midday.

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JON GORDON: Technology predictions for 1997. I'm Jon Gordon, and you can hear Bill Loving's forecast for the new year on Future Tense in one half hour on Minnesota Public Radio. K-N-O-W FM, 91.1.

PAULA SCHROEDER: You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. 13 degrees under cloudy skies at K-N-O-W FM, 91.1, Minneapolis, Saint Paul. In the Twin Cities today, it'll be cloudy. We have a chance of light snow. Look for a high in the teens, and those temperatures will hold steady overnight tonight, rising into the low 30s by tomorrow.

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