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KAREN BARTA: Good morning. I'm Karen Barta with news from Minnesota Public Radio. State education officials tell the Minneapolis Star Tribune the state student teacher ratio has remained about 17 to 1, even though the legislature has allocated nearly $194 million over the last three years to cut class sizes. The Department of Children Learning and Families admits it doesn't monitor schools to see how the class size reduction money is spent. But officials suspect most of the money was used to pay for salary increases for teachers and other employees. State Senator Larry Pogemiller, who chairs the education funding division, says he's shocked to hear that class sizes haven't been reduced.

LARRY POGEMILLER: The law is very clear and the money is directed exactly to lowering class sizes to providing more personalized education for its smallest children. All the research indicates that that's where you're going to get your bang for the buck. When a young child's mind is being nurtured early, that's where it's going to really make a difference. That's exactly where the money's been spent for the last three years.

KAREN BARTA: Pogemiller says the department's commissioner, Bruce Johnson, is supposed to be monitoring what's going on and Pogemiller wants to know why that's not being done. Johnson won't comment until later this morning. Trial begins today for Hennepin County District judge LaJune Lange on charges of judicial misconduct. Lange held a news conference in her courtroom in May 1995 to attack other judges for cronyism. A three-judge panel will hear the trial at the State Capitol.

The state forecast showers and thunderstorms likely this morning. And for the Twin Cities, scattered showers and thunderstorms becoming partly sunny with a high around 84. Light rain falling in Duluth at 68 degrees.

In St. Cloud, it's cloudy and 72. And in the Twin Cities, cloudy and 71. That's news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Karen Barta.

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PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, Monday and the 10 o'clock hour of Mid-Morning means Voices of Minnesota. Lee Pao Xiong says, for centuries, the Hmong have been either farmers or warriors. That history, he says, explains the difficult adjustment for the Hmong who moved to the United States. Today on our Voices of Minnesota interview, Lee Pao Xiong talks about his relocation from the mountains of Laos to Minnesota.

The 30-year-old Lee Pao is the director of the Minnesota Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans. He's the former head of the Hmong-American Partnership, which represents the interests of the 35,000 Hmong living in Minnesota. Lee Pao was nine years old when he came to the United States. He told NPR's Chris Roberts their oral history traces the Hmong's roots 4,000 years back to life in China and Mongolia.

LEE PAO XIONG: According to folktales being told by our elders, they said that the Hmong originally had a kingdom. And it was part of the Yellow River Valley area and it was very fertile. And so the Chinese saw that it was very fertile.

Chinese came and the Chinese and the Hmong had a long history of war. But the Chinese came in and tricked one of the Hmong kings and eventually killed the Hmong king and then took over the kingdom. So that's what we lost, that particular piece of land there.

But there's also folktales that seems to suggest that the Hmong migrated down from Mongolia. And so there's that side of the story, too. And Mongolia in Hmong means this princess, [? Go Li. ?] And so it was suggested that maybe we were from that particular area because we were somewhat like nomadic people and like to move from place to place. And were farmers.

And so there's two sides of the story. There's two sides. But over the years, we've had the opportunity to interact with our fellow Hmong in China. And so we were able to put pieces together and pulling things together and say, well, yes, a long time ago the Hmong did have a king. And yes, we did have a kingdom.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Have the Hmong always been an agrarian people? Have they always farmed, lived off the land? And how did they do that in the mountains of Laos? That must have been tough going.

LEE PAO XIONG: Well, we've always been that. We raise our own pigs, and cows, and chickens and live off the land. In Laos, we live way in the mountains.

We practiced slash and burn agricultural techniques. Basically, we burn the entire-- we would go and cut off the trees, and the branches and the shrubs, and then let it dry for a couple of months, and then go back and burn it all up, and plant our crops there. And then the following year we would go and find other places to do it. So people move from place to place.

And there were-- and I think that's why a lot of the older people, they miss that kind of lifestyle because there were no territories, see? You can go. And if nobody has claimed a particular mountain per se or side of a mountain per se, you can just go, and stake your claim and build your little hut there, your house there, and chop down the trees, and just burn it off and plant your crops.

It's a simple lifestyle. It is a very simple lifestyle. And even some of the road leading up to the Hmong villages, you have to walk. So you have to either walk or ride ponies or even-- you can't even use ponies or horses because of the fact that some of them-- some of the areas are so remote.

And so some of the main roads seems to be way down the lowland areas. And I remember the life back then. It was very simple. We would have to walk, let's say, over a mountain and through the valley all the way to the other side of the mountains just to catch a taxi to go to the market.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Now, you remember that, Lee Pao?

LEE PAO XIONG: Yes, I remember, man.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How old are you?

LEE PAO XIONG: I came here when I was nine years old. I lived with my father in Long Cheng, which is the-- if you look at any maps produced before 1975 of Laos, it wouldn't be there because it's a CIA headquarter. So it was never published, but I lived with my father in that particular town. And we also have-- my mother, and my grandparents and my brothers all lived in the village.

So I remember a lot of these things. I remember going to schools and walking two or three hours to get to school, and waking up real early in the morning. And it was really cold and it was cold up there in the mountains. And I remember how we-- to keep ourselves warm, we would put holes in cans, and put charcoal in there and carry that as a heater. And then going along the way, we would get twigs and branches and put in there and keep us warm all the way.

CHRIS ROBERTS: So you mentioned the CIA. That brings up a subject I'd like to talk about and that is how the Hmong became involved in the American war in Vietnam. You were recruited by the CIA as we understand it. Explain how that developed.

LEE PAO XIONG: Well, again, this is going back to the fact that the Hmong were very peaceful people. And the Hmong-- let me go back again. The Hmong fought with the Chinese. And some of them couldn't stand it anymore and they moved down.

And then when the French came, they imposed high taxes on the Hmong. And so the Hmong rebelled against the French. And then when the Japanese came, the Hmong-- the French came over and recruited the Hmong because the French couldn't beat the Hmong. And the Hmong were fierce fighters. And so we sided with the French to fight against the Japanese.

And then when the communist Vietnamese came over, the United States came. And the United States heard about the Hmong fighting skills and knowledge of the terrains there. And the Hmong were known for being great hunters. And they know the territory well. So the United States came and recruited the Hmong and basically said that if the Hmong helped the United States, if the United States win, then the Hmong would get their own kingdom. See, that's what some of the-- that's how we were told.

And so the Hmong fought. But the Hmong wants to live in peace and so people came. And of course, the Ho Chi Minh Trail cuts right through Hmong territories so we can't just sit back and say we're not going to mess around with this. We're not going to mess around. We're going to stay in peace.

Our areas were-- our peaceful way of life were being destroyed. And so we sided with the United States and we rescued a lot of the American pilots who were shot down over our territories. And we sabotaged the Ho Chi Minh trails.

And I know my father personally rescued American pilots. And back then, I think we were very dedicated people. My father got recruited into the war and he was only 12 years old. And my uncle also got recruited when he was only-- I think he was 11 or 12 years old. And my uncle died in the war.

But they were recruited. And my father was saying that they couldn't even carry the M-16 because it was so heavy. And some of the army clothes, of course, were so baggy, as my father showed us pictures of those. And it was very baggy.

They were just kids. They were just children. But whenever a plane shot down over the particular area and that particular pilot happens to be an American, General Vang Pao would say you don't come back until you rescue them. You bring back that person.

CHRIS ROBERTS: General Vang Pao was the leader of the Hmong forces.

LEE PAO XIONG: Correct. And he was the leader of the forces in that particular area. And so the Hmong were very dedicated and very committed. And I think that's why you see a lot of the Hmong screaming and yelling here in this country and saying that, wait a minute, there's all these promises.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Well, I guess I was wondering whether the Hmong fought against their will, but it sounds like they had no choice in a way. Plus, they were promised a new kingdom by the Americans, as you put it. A new kingdom in this country?

LEE PAO XIONG: A new kingdom in Laos. And the United States said, if we lose the war, we will bring you with us. See, that's the thing. We will bring you with us.

But I think the Hmong also fought against their will, too, because many young men were drafted. They were dragged off to war because all of the men were being killed off. And so they came and just start pulling people. Every young person that they can find, they would drag off to war. And I still hear people say that, well, they dragged off my son and he died.

And my father was saying that during the conflict, when it was really intense, you have a lot of young people in the battlefield. And they don't know when to pull out and they don't know what to do. And when you have grenades, and bombs and gunfire all over the place, some of these young kids-- the kids, they just froze.

And then they wouldn't pull back. And then the communist Vietnamese would come and just butcher them in the trenches. And my father said it was very painful to see those type of things.

And so when we came to this country, I told my father I wanted to be-- I want to join the army. And he said, yeah, right, I'm going to let you do that. Because he was saying that when you watch TV, it looks very glamorous. But when you're sitting in the trenches and you saw your friend next to you being knocked off by gunfire and die right in front of you, it's not fun anymore.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Lee Pao Xiong, director of the Minnesota Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans, talking with Chris Roberts. It's our Voices of Minnesota interview today on Mid-Morning. I'm Paula Schroeder. We'll continue our conversation with Lee Pao Xiong in just a moment.

Coming up a little bit later in this hour, we are going to be talking with Susan Allen Toth about school reunions. Of course, these can send panic into the hearts of many people. And she's got some ideas on how to prepare for those high school reunions.

Checking the weather around our region, there's some light rain falling in Rochester, 72 degrees and also in International Falls, where it is 69 degrees. That rain should be moving out of our area later this morning. And then it's going to be mostly cloudy across the state of Minnesota and highs will be from the mid 70s in the northeast to the upper 80s in the southwest. It's going to be very warm and humid tomorrow.

And right now in the Twin Cities, we have 100% humidity with a temperature of 72 degrees. And it's going to continue to be warm and muggy through tomorrow. Look for high temperatures in the Twin Cities today, around 83 degrees.

Well, all of the modern conveniences that we take for granted, running water and electricity, were mysteries when Li Pao Xiong and his family arrived in this country. The next and final wave of Hmong from Southeast Asia's refugee camps arrive in Minnesota later this year. Lee Pao Xiong recalled his family's move to the US.

LEE PAO XIONG: When we arrived in Indiana, we were sponsored by Amish-- by a Mennonite Church and a small town in Indiana. When we arrived, I think my mother was using the toilet water.

[LAUGHS]

So we weren't used to those type of things. So that's just an example of how far behind we were in terms of technology. We jumped over 100 years of our time when we came to this country. And so it was very difficult for adjustments.

And I think by the end of 1996, we're expecting about 3,000 Hmong coming from the camps here because of the fact that all of the camps-- the final camps will be closed by the end of this year. And many of the individuals coming will be individuals that were born in the camps. So they have no sense of having this self-sufficiency thoughts. It's always dependent. They're always depending on the United Nations for giving them clothes and giving them food.

CHRIS ROBERTS: 3,000 coming to the US or 3,000 coming to Minnesota?

LEE PAO XIONG: 6,000 coming to the US and we're expecting about 3,000 coming to Minnesota.

CHRIS ROBERTS: That's a lot.

LEE PAO XIONG: It is a lot.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Are we better prepared this time to deal with this influx?

LEE PAO XIONG: Yes and no. I think we are better prepared in terms of the social service organizations, the social service system. But I think as far as statewide, I don't think we're prepared. In fact, I recently met with folks from the Department of Economic Securities and saying that here we have a unique opportunity to help these people become economically self-sufficient because of the fact that we've learned over the last 20 years what it takes to be economically self-sufficient and not to be dependent on public assistance the minute we arrived. They didn't get it.

So I think that as far as a state's ability to be able to absorb these people, I don't think that we're ready. But I think the community is ready to help the folks coming in.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Explain how the clan structure governs the Hmong community. I don't know if a lot of people understand that.

LEE PAO XIONG: OK. Clan and family ties within our community is very, very important. My clan is Xiong, X-I-O-N-G. That's my last name. That's my clan name.

I think clan is what brought us together. In the early '70s, the United States refugee policy was to disperse these people all over the place and place them in an isolated area where there was jobs and all that stuff. They all came together anyways because of that clan.

They don't understand the sense of family and the sense of clan among person is never a one person. We're a large group of people and we're a clan. And I think that's why here in Minnesota, you have the three largest clans. You have the Xiong, the Vang and the Yang, because we all recruited our clan members, our family members to come and live here.

So that we have-- whenever there's conflict within the community, the clan leaders would-- and the clan leaders are not appointed people. They're clan leaders because of the fact that they operate fairly, and they're educated or they're fair, I would say. And so you have this elder person who served as a leader of the group. And this elder person-- I think within our community, the older you become, the more prestige you will get.

And so age come with prestigious. Within the mainstream community, I think the older you get, the more likely you'll be pushed into a nursing home and be forgotten about. We see age as wisdom.

CHRIS ROBERTS: For a young man, you have had quite an illustrious career so far. You founded an agency called the Hmong Youth Association. You went on to become executive director of the Hmong-American Partnership, one of the premier mutual assistance agencies helping the Hmong in Minnesota.

And now you're the head of a state agency, the Minnesota Council for Asian and Pacific Islanders. So you have quite a unique vantage point in which to analyze how the Hmong community has progressed thus far. So I will ask you this, what do you think are the main problems facing the Hmong community in 1996?

LEE PAO XIONG: I think the main problem is, first of all, we got to come together. I think we're divided for way too long. Another thing, I think we need positive role models for our young people.

We have seen a rash of gang conflicts within our community. Young people causing trouble. But even though we start-- we're seeing this, the Hmong community are the most crime-free community-- crime-free folks of any other communities.

But we're starting to see our young people moving away from the community and starting getting in trouble and getting the community in trouble. But I think that the main thing that we need within our community is leadership within our community. We are like a community without parents. When you don't have parents within the household, you have people all over the place.

And we need to have parents within our community. We need somebody to say, we need to go this way, we need to go that way. And we need people to respect those individuals.

So I think in order for us to resolve a lot of the issues such as economic self-sufficiency, we need a leader within our community that would say get off public assistance, go to work. We need somebody that'd scream and yell. And I think back then it was General Vang Pao. And now I think that, people don't really-- a lot of the people don't really affiliate with General Vang Pao anymore so they don't respect him anymore. And so I think we need to have some strong leaders in people to teach people about new ways of life in this country.

What our young people are going through right now is they're going through the teenage years. Parents have no clue because back in our country, in our culture, we have no teenage years. The minute you learn how to walk and talk, you're automatically giving responsibility and you're an adult.

And you're supposed to act like an adult and you're supposed to talk like an adult. And so when you have a new culture to deal with, of course, you're going to see parents and children having conflict. I think if you go and talk to the Hmong and ask them about what is the number one issue, it's about young people.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You've worked a lot in your career with young people and young people affected by violence every now and then. And this has touched your family. I think, it must be over a year ago, there was an incident outside a funeral home in Frogtown, and your brother was there along with his girlfriend.

And his girlfriend was shot and killed after an altercation with some other people. And your brother was paralyzed by a gunshot. How has this affected your outlook?

LEE PAO XIONG: I think it makes me work harder. I think I'm a very positive person. I'm a very positive person. And I want to try every option before I decide to quit.

And I think it has made me stronger, and it has pulled us, our family together. And it certainly makes me question my commitment as well. Because I was-- for a time, I was thinking to myself, I was like, by golly, I worked so hard. And this is what I-- I don't want this type of things to happen and yet it hit me. And maybe I should-- my wife was saying that maybe I'm trying to save a community that does not want to be saved.

I told my brother that whenever he's ready, I'd like him to go out to the community and bring this message of nonviolence and of resolving conflict without violence. I remember during the old days when we have conflict, we use our fists. Nowadays, they use guns and knives.

And I think we need to bring compassion back to people. And we need to treat people as human beings rather than just a thing. And we need to give young people hope. Because a lot of the young people, they do not have any hopes. They do not have any dreams.

And we need to stop being so critical of people, and we need to give them opportunity, and we need to give them chance. And there are-- obviously, there are people out there that are not salvageable. No matter how hard you try, it's not going to help.

But I think what happened with my family, we've received a lot of support from the community and from mainstream as well as non mainstream. We're very thankful and fortunate to have friends like that. But I think it has impacted my family.

And sometimes when I talk about it, it brings tears to my eyes. But I think, again, it hurts. It hurts, yeah.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What do you think your destiny is? Are you going to continue to work in the social service realm or you were talking about how your community needs leadership? Lee Pao, I can't think of a better person. And I know you are a leader, but I guess maybe I'm talking about politics. Is that in your future?

LEE PAO XIONG: I've thought a lot about that. I think that in the future, I'd like to get into that, have an opportunity to do that. Because too often we react to policies. And one of the reasons why I took this position as a director of the State Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans, because here we have an opportunity to influence policy.

When I was in the social service sector, we were reacting to policy. We're putting out fires. We're saving people that were drowning. And when you have a whole community that's drowning, you can save people all you want. There will be people drowning all the time.

And here, this agency, we have an opportunity to say, those policy is going to affect our people this way and we don't think it's a good policy. And if there are things that are not being addressed, we have the opportunity to develop policy, to create policies. That would say, by golly, we're going to change this, we're going to create this so that it will help our community. So that's what motivated me to take this position.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Lee Pao Xiong, the director of the Minnesota Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans. I had the extreme pleasure of meeting this young man a few years ago and he is incredible. We're fortunate to have him here. He talked with NPR'S Chris Roberts. Our Voices of Minnesota interviews are heard nearly every Monday as part of Mid-Morning. The producer is Dan Olson.

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It's 28 minutes before 11 o'clock. You're listening to Mid-Morning on Minnesota Public Radio.

SPEAKER 1: If you have a personal computer, should you try online banking?

SPEAKER 2: It automatically downloads all my transactions.

SPEAKER 1: Sounds convenient, but is it worth the fee?

SPEAKER 3 (ON PHONE): The fact of the matter is that the financial institution is saving money.

SPEAKER 1: A report on PC banking today. See the story on our web site, www.mpr.org, while you hear it on the radio. 11:50 on Minnesota Public Radio, KNOW FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, we are really going high tech here at Minnesota Public Radio. In fact, I have to let you know that we're in some new studios today, our brand new studios, and they're all digital. And we're really having a good time.

So I hope that it sounds OK to you as well. Today's programming is sponsored in part by membership contributions from listeners like you. Thank you for your membership support of Minnesota Public Radio.

Well, we all know that there is an awful lot to do in the summertime. Those of us who live in Minnesota during the winter know that we don't have nearly as many activities in January as we do in July. And as I said, all kinds of things to do, trips to the lake, festivals, outdoor concerts, fairs and reunions. And we are going to be talking school reunions here today.

Unlike family reunions, these are affairs that prompt months of preparation. The other people attending your high school reunion, after all, know what you look like when you were 18. And even though 30 years might have gone by, you still want them to recognize you and to think you look great.

Many diets are launched in the months before the big event. Hair is styled, clothes bought, and fingernails polished. Looking good can help ease the panic that goes with seeing that old boyfriend or girlfriend for the first time in many years. But there are other things you can do to prepare for the event.

Joining us in our studios this morning is an expert on the topic. Susan Allen Toth is the author of How to Prepare for Your High School Reunions and Other Midlife Musings. It's one of several books this Macalester College adjunct professor of English has written. Her latest book, England As You Like It, A Guide for Independent Travelers to England. Susan, thanks so much for coming in today.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: It's a pleasure to be here.

PAULA SCHROEDER: How long has it been since you've been to a high school reunion now?

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: I missed my last reunion five years ago, and I was at one now almost 10 years ago. And I plan to go-- actually, it was four years ago because I planned to go next year. And the last major one I went to was my 25th high school reunion, which is an absolutely astonishing occasion, especially if you have not been back to an earlier reunion.

And if you do a little calculation, you'll discover that at your 25th reunion, most people are in their early 40s. They're at a stage in life when they've made a lot of choices that have already determined the shape their lives are going to take in many ways. By that time, usually if you're going to get married and have children, you are married and have children. If you've chosen another path, you're on that path. And so it's a time of reassessment.

I think every reunion has its own perils and pleasures. The 10th reunion, for instance, again, if you do a little addition, you'll think that most people then are about 28. There's still lots of time between high school and 28, but those years can somehow vanish very quickly.

And when you get a little older, my husband went to his 50th high school reunion. Was it not a year ago, two years ago?

PAULA SCHROEDER: Wow!

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And he comes from a small town in Western Minnesota, Dawson. And their reunions happen every few years and they all attend them very religiously. And one of the astonishing things to me is that when you attend a reunion, you revert an age almost instantly.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yes.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: So that when I say 50, 25, whatever, suddenly you're all 18 again. It's very eerie.

PAULA SCHROEDER: We had a call from a listener. We did a program a couple of weeks ago on friendship. And she was talking about going to a high school reunion and hadn't seen some people because I think she went to school out East and she hadn't seen many of these people for 30 years or more. And that's what she said, it was like going back instantly to the high school days where you knew who these people were.

They still had the same personalities even though their lives-- she was talking specifically about a friend of hers who had done very, very well in life financially and personally as well. He was just a very successful person. But she said he was still the same guy that she went to high school with.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: I think that is both encouraging and also sometimes depressing to think that we don't-- our essential personalities don't change that much. And it's probably a lesson to us that, much as we'd like to perhaps change some of the people we love who are near to us, they're not ever going to be very different. And it is sobering when you find-- when you're in your 30s, 40s or, 50s, or either end of those, that you meet someone in high school, let's say a girl. Let's pick a name of someone. There was never a Glenda in my high school class, but let's say there was.

And if I didn't like Glenda when we were both 17 or 16, it was really interesting to me to see that Glenda would catch my eye and go walk in another direction, that those antagonisms still linger. And I think it's because in our high school years, we are so vulnerable, so sensitive. The impressions we get in high school last all of our lives.

Someone whom I don't remember years ago wrote a book called Is There Life After High School? And his point, I think, was that we live so intensely in those few years. And all of that comes flooding back when you see the girl who stole your boyfriend, the boy who broke your heart.

It doesn't help when you see this guy who broke your heart and you think, oh, he's gotten fat, he's bald. You know, he sells pencils. Whatever it is, you still remember.

PAULA SCHROEDER: He still broke your heart.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yeah.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, and the friendships at that high school age, too, are so important.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Oh, yes.

PAULA SCHROEDER: It's almost like the rest of the world is excluded outside that circle of friends that you might have or the people that you see every single day in high school.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yes, indeed.

PAULA SCHROEDER: I want to bring some listeners in on our conversation here. And maybe you can tell us about some of the experiences that you've had at your high school reunions and what helped you prepare for it as well, or what you would have done differently maybe. And you can call us at 227-6000 in the Twin cities, or you can reach us toll free at 1-800-242-2828. 227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828.

I have to say, I didn't go to-- I had such a huge class in my high school that we only have reunions every 10 years. They actually did have one on the 25th, but I missed that one. And I didn't--

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: When your class is that big, there isn't the incentive to go.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, no.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yes.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah. And I guess that I, I missed the 10th reunion and would have liked-- oh, that would have been fun to go. But it was like the 20th, I had to go.

I had to go see where everyone was. And I am so glad I did because it was one of the most fun nights of my life. I think between the wedding reception and the high school reunion.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yes. Yes.

[LAUGHS]

PAULA SCHROEDER: I'd have to put those on an even par.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Well, they are very exciting because you get to see the next chapter in the lives-- or actually not just the next chapter, but the last 15 chapters in the lives of people that you were very curious about. And it's also exciting. Things happen at high school reunions.

I know personally two different women who met old sweethearts and in the end married them. Actually, in both cases, it meant the end of the marriages they were in. So it's, I suppose--

PAULA SCHROEDER: Whoops!

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: --yes, not an entirely happy set of coincidences. But they're both now happily remarried.

PAULA SCHROEDER: But isn't that funny how, again, going back to those relationships that one had in high school, again, that were probably very intense with that first boyfriend or girlfriend, that if they can be revived, they are.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And especially with women who form a different kind of friendship, I think, in high school. A kind of-- girlfriends in high school are intensely close and intimate in ways that men often aren't, or boys at that age. When you get back together with some of those ex girlfriends, and I'm talking about the really close ones, the two or three that you shared so much with, it only takes a few sentences to catch up.

You need to tell them-- maybe you tell them something about your love life. You're married. You're not married. You have children. You don't have children.

Your parents are alive. They're not alive. You've had this health problem that-- and then it's taken care of. And it's as though all those years had dropped away.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah, they really have. Well, we've got callers on the line. And if you have some stories about your high school reunion to tell us, you can reach us at 227-6000 in the Twin Cities or 1-800-242-2828. We're talking today with Susan Allen Toth, who is the author of a book that's been out for quite a while now, but it's still a great one, How to Prepare for Your High School Reunion and Other Midlife Musings.

And we'll go to the phones. Patricia is calling from Stillwater. Hi. No, she's not on the line with us here.

What about let's try Mike in North Saint Paul? Hi. Oh, Patricia, I'm sorry. I had you on the wrong phone line here. Good morning.

PATRICIA: Should I start again?

PAULA SCHROEDER: No, you can start right now.

PATRICIA: Good morning, Susan. I love your books. And as you can probably tell, I'm from England. And they're really old home week when I read them.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: How delightful. Thank you so much.

PATRICIA: And I have-- I went to school in a private school from when I was 5 until I was 17. So we didn't have any of the problems of getting together because we'd all grown up as little ones into late teens.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Was this a boarding school?

PATRICIA: No. Well, it was a boarding school, but I was a day student. And I'm still in touch now with some of the people. Although I live in America and they're in England, I'm still in touch with these children that I went to school with when I was little.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Oh, that's marvelous.

PATRICIA: So it's interesting to hear that there are little jealousies that form in high school here. This was an all-girls school. I don't remember any jealousies at all just because we'd been little together and stayed together until we entered university. And then things changed. But I just had to talk to Susan because I just love your book.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Oh, thank you.

[LAUGHS] All the rain and the miseries as well.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, we should mention, Patricia, that Susan is going to have another book on England coming out--

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Next March.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --in March. Next March.

PATRICIA: Oh good!

PAULA SCHROEDER: So you can look forward to that.

PATRICIA: Oh, I will look forward to it. Will it be out in paperback as well?

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Not for another year. They usually come out in hardcover one year and then they wait a year and bring it out in paperback the next year. But your library will have it. So--

PATRICIA: Good.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: --that's another way to get it.

PATRICIA: Oh, all right. Thank you very much. Bye bye.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, thank you for calling, Patricia. Bye bye. Yeah, I think, of course, a lot of people, probably including your husband, went through that same situation as Patricia did, even though they were not maybe at the same school altogether. But growing up in a small town, most people start out at the age of 5 and continue on up until--

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Absolutely.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --they're 17 or 18.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And in my home town, which was Ames, Iowa, there were two junior high schools. And we all came together for high school, but you can still divide people. We still talk when we meet of who went to Central and who went to Welch Junior High.

That is the junior high division continued all the way through high school. Though one of the close friends I keep in touch with, a banker now in Cedar Rapids named [? Larry Christy. ?] Larry was a Central guy. And we still talk about our Central and Welch connections.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Oh, yes.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: In fact, I just spoke with him on the phone a couple of weeks ago. I don't see him very often. Sometimes years pass. But we keep in periodic touch because those ties are very close.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Very strong. We did have another caller on the line and I'm afraid I lost him somehow.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: It's that new digital equipment.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yeah, right. He said that his ex-wife was on the reunion committee of their high school and he did not get any notice about the last reunion.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Oh, my.

PAULA SCHROEDER: That's kind of low.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: That is low. And reunions, high school reunions, they do evoke feelings that are so intense. Now, in that case, of course, the intense feelings were current and contemporary. But the level of emotion, didn't you feel that, too? It could be very positive--

PAULA SCHROEDER: Oh, yes.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: --but the level of emotion is so intense.

PAULA SCHROEDER: I was hoarse after my reunion because I talked so much and so animatedly for such a long time that I'm not accustomed to doing that.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And I think there's an intensity to in that we all have to come to terms at our high school reunions with the aging process. Now, at 28, you may be panicking, thinking you're about to be 30. And if you're at a reunion when you are in your late 30s, you're wondering about, at that point you're thinking, will I ever make it or what is happening to my life? There's landmarks all along.

And you also have-- you do confront your mortality in the sense that most high school classes, by the time you've had at least your 25th reunion, have lost maybe one or more members. And my sister just went to her 40th reunion and was saddened and shocked to realize how many of her classmates had gone, had died. So that it's a way to not only reaffirm old bonds, but to assess your life and to come to terms with what your life means maybe in a larger context.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Thinking about the aging process, of course, going back to what I was saying at the beginning of our conversation, that people really put a lot of stock into looking good at a reunion. It's almost as if it's just as important to look your best at a reunion as it is, again, going back to the wedding connection.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yes. I think that--

PAULA SCHROEDER: Why do you think that is?

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Well, I think that it's not just women. I was going to say that we women are brought up, of course, with a terrible fear of aging and not looking good. But it's men as well.

Because I remember this 25th reunion of mine, how a couple of the men, friends of mine that I went to the first evening with, were fussing with their ties, combing their hair or what was left of it. They were just-- they wanted to look good, too. And I think it goes back to that terrible insecurity we all felt in high school when you remember how if everyone was wearing, let's say, a black patent leather shoes and you didn't have a pair of black patent leathers.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Devastating, yeah.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And I think that sense of I may not fit in, I haven't made it. It revives all those terrible insecurities. Although I don't know how many pre-reunion diets actually work.

I think in the end, most people just say the heck with it. This is the way I am. This is how I'm going to go.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Hopefully, that's true. Because people are-- if they're truly your friends, they'll just want to see you for being you.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: On the other hand, we find all too humanly, I think, that-- at least I did that the few people-- and there weren't many that I had really disliked-- I was pleased if I saw that a couple of them hadn't aged so well.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yes. Yes. Yes.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: And I was ashamed of myself afterwards.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Yes, but recognize that--

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: But it was true.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --that catty side of yourself still exists.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Yes.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Susan Ellen Toth is our guest today. And we're talking about high school reunions, specifically high school. But what about college reunions? Do you think they're different?

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: They're different, very different. Now, I went to a woman's college, to Smith College, which was moderately big, about 2,600 altogether so that I didn't know personally everyone in my class. I think the college reunions depend-- I didn't go back to my last two. I went again to my 25th.

And I think they depend there if-- on their success partly on whether your intimate friends are back. Because if they're not, you are cast adrift without much of a group to ally yourself with. But they also tend to be, in some ways, not surprisingly, a little more intellectual. College reunions have programs usually that you attend. They have panel discussions.

They, of course, have fundraising elements where the college is trying to extort more money from the alumni. And there's much more interest in the physical plant. You want to wander around the campus to see how it's changed.

As I say, I just missed my, now let's see, was this my 35th high school reunion? I think that's right. This last May, couldn't attend. But also I didn't mind too much not attending because my one or two friends from my little dormitory that I lived in couldn't come back.

I had two close friends in another dorm, but their friends from that dorm would have absorbed their attention. So I think most people look forward less eagerly to their college reunions. How do you feel about that?

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, I think so. I think that my very closest friends are people that I met in college, but we tend to get together as a group separately. We don't need a planned college reunion to do that. It's just our group of friends that do. So yeah, I agree with that too. I think that it tends to be a little less intense when you're talking about that emotional connection to a college as opposed to a high school.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Although I must say my 25th reunion was also significant to me in showing me-- because the women in my class were, by and large, a very articulate group-- showing me what people had made of their lives. And actually, I ended up giving more money to the college after I'd left because I was so impressed by the kinds of contributions to their society and community many of these women were making. So there was that sense, too, of assessing one's own life and looking with awe at what many people have made of theirs despite tragedies and difficulties.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, a reunion is a great time to reconnect with all those people. Susan Allen Toth, thanks a lot for reminding us about how special they are.

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: It was a pleasure to be here.

PAULA SCHROEDER: And we'll look forward to your next book about England--

SUSAN ALLEN TOTH: Good.

PAULA SCHROEDER: --coming up in March. Susan Allen Toth is an adjunct professor of English at Macalester College in Saint Paul.

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PERRY FINELLI: Among many items Congress is debating is entitlement programs for older Americans, including Social Security and Medicare. Hi, I'm Perry Finley. On the next Midday, we'll hear from Horace Deets, executive director of the powerful lobbying group AARP, the American Association of Retired Persons.

Deets discusses the issues facing senior citizens in an appearance at the Commonwealth Club of California. Midday begins at 11:00 with the latest news and weather. Horace Deets at noon on KNOW FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities.

PAULA SCHROEDER: And coming up at 11 o'clock, Gary Eichten will be back on Midday and he'll talk to Macalester economics Professor Jim Simler about the Dole economic plan that will be announced today. Simler was on Kennedy's council of economic advisors.

Gary will also be talking to [? Jon Hovde ?] of the Minnesota School Boards Association about a controversy over class size. That's on Midday coming up at 11 o'clock. First, it's time for Garrison Keillor and the Writer's Almanac.

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GARRISON KEILLOR: And here is the Writer's Almanac for Monday. It's the 5th of August, 1996. It was on this day in 1962, Nelson Mandela was sentenced to life in prison for trying to overthrow the South African government. And on the same day, actress Marilyn Monroe died of an overdose of sleeping pills at the age of 36.

It's the birthday in 1930 in Wapakoneta, Ohio, of Neil Armstrong, who got his pilot's license on his 16th birthday, flew in the Korean War, was shot down once at the age of 25, became a civilian research pilot. 1962, joined the US space program and in 1969 flew to the moon aboard Apollo 11 with Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins. And he became the first person to set foot on the moon.

It's the birthday of the Swedish diplomat and businessman Raoul Wallenberg, 1912, in Stockholm. He was in business in the city of Budapest as the war began. And in 1944, with the city full of Jewish refugees and German troops rounding up Jews for deportation, Wallenberg used every means he could to protect the Jews, issuing passports to many of them, sheltering some in buildings that became annexes to the Swedish embassy. He saved as many as 35,000 Jews from death.

He was arrested by Soviet troops in 1945. He disappeared, reportedly died of a heart attack in a prison cell in Moscow in 1947. But the circumstances still remain a mystery.

It's the birthday of film director John Huston in Nevada, Missouri, 1906, who directed his first film in 1941, The Maltese Falcon, starring Humphrey Bogart. It's the birthday of writer Conrad Aiken in Savannah, 1889, who survived the trauma at the age of 11 of finding the bodies of his parents after his father shot his mother and committed suicide. He went north, went to Harvard, became a friend of T. S. Eliot's, became a poet, won the Pulitzer prize, wrote novels and short stories, and moved back to Savannah as an old man to spend the last 11 years of his life there.

It's the birthday of the French short story writer and novelist Guy de Maupassant, 1850, in France. It's the birthday in 1855, in London of meteorologist William Henry Dines, who invented the first instrument to measure both the velocity and direction of wind, the pressure tube anemometer. It was on this day in 1850, Herman Melville met Nathaniel Hawthorne. They were at a picnic in the Berkshire Mountains near Pittsfield, Massachusetts.

There was a thunderstorm. The two writers found shelter under the same rock outcropping. And as the rain came down, they talked about literature and philosophy, and they became fast friends.

And it's the birthday in 1604 in Widford, England, of John Eliot, who came to New England as a young man, became known as the apostle to the Indians, learned the Algonquian language. And the first edition of his translation of the Bible into Algonquian was the first Bible printed in the American colonies.

Here's a poem for today by Katharine Tynan entitled "August Weather." "Dead heat and windless air and silence overall. Never a leaf astir, but the ripe apples fall.

Plums are purple red, pears amber and brown. Thud in the garden bed. Ripe apples fall down.

Air like a cider press with the bruised apples' scent. Low whistles express some sleepy bird's content. Still world and windless sky, a mist of heat o'er all. Peace like a lullaby, and the ripe apples fall."

Poem by Katharine Tynan. "August Weather." And that's the Writer's Almanac for Monday, August 5, made possible by Cole's History Group, publishers of American history and other magazines. Be well, do good work and keep in touch.

PAULA SCHROEDER: Well, since Garrison was talking about "August Weather," I'll tell you what august weather for Minnesota holds over the next couple of days. In a couple of words, hot and humid. We see high temperatures today from the mid 70s in the northeast to the upper 80s in the southwest.

And then overnight tonight, it is going to be muggy with lows in the low 60s and 70s. Tomorrow, quite a bit warmer, very warm and humid. A chance of afternoon thunderstorms in the northwest with highs from 85 to 92 degrees. In the Twin Cities today, the high near 83.

Well, that's Mid-Morning for today. Thank you so much for joining us. Tomorrow, we are going to come back and we'll be talking for part of the program about elderly abuse. There are cases of elderly women, in particular, being abused and battered. We'll find out about them and what's being done to help them.

That's coming up tomorrow on Mid-Morning. I'm Paula Schroeder. Thanks for joining us today.

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SPEAKER 4: All Things Considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio, KNOW FM 91.1.

PAULA SCHROEDER: You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. 72 degrees under cloudy skies at KNOW FM 91.1, Minneapolis, Saint Paul. In the Twin Cities today, a high near 83. It's going to be clear and muggy tonight with a low near 68. Tomorrow, quite a bit warmer, with a high from 85 to 90 degrees.

GARY EICHTEN: Good morning. It's 11:00 and this is Midday on Minnesota Public Radio. With Monitor Radio's David Brown, I'm Gary Eichten. In the news this morning, Republican presidential nominee Bob Dole is calling for a 15% across-the-board income tax cut, part of a broader economic package that he's outlining today. Dole is also calling for a 50% cut in the capital gains.