(00:00:00) You know for a long long time newspapers were our primary source of news and information fact to most big cities had several newspapers to choose from morning and afternoons, but those days apparently are long gone TV according to the surveys is now the primary source of news in this country newspaper circulation in general is down consolidations are up here in the Twin Cities. For example, we are now down to just two newspapers the Star Tribune, which is an outgrowth of the merger of the Minneapolis Star and the Minneapolis Tribune and the st. Paul Pioneer Press the result of the merging the Pioneer Press and the Old Saint Paul Dispatch all of this with these Trends and now here comes the internet. Well today, we're going to spend the hour talking about the future of the newspaper specifically the Twin Cities dailies. We've been joined here in the studio ipam fine. Who is The News Leader the minneapolis-based Star Tribune and can doctor the managing editor of the st. Paul Pioneer Press. Thanks for coming in. Really appreciate you. Well, you're being here before we get to the nitty-gritty of Pioneer Press Star Tribune. I have to ask you about the Unabomber story. Was that a good decision on the part of the Washington Post New York Times to publish this Manifesto? Well, I think I think the only thing we know now is that we won't know I think the editors and the Publishers of the paper said that this of course was a unique circumstance. They couldn't see it happening again to the question of will there be copycats who will want this. I think the answer is there will be copycats will want it either on a local basis or on a national basis that said given the uniqueness of the circumstance and what the FBI and the Attorney General had to say it's a reasonable decision I think but I think we can look forward to other things like this happening. What do you (00:01:54) think? Well, I agree fortunately we weren't in the same position. It's one that any editor would wrestle with and we conjectured informally in our own news room and there were mixed sentiments. So I feel the explanation was very thoughtful and they obviously have information from the FBI that led them to these decisions and I respect it and like Ken wonder if it will lead to subsequent requests, but we'll have to wait and see (00:02:29) I was going to say now putting aside the possibility that other terrorists will make similar request. What about the idea of Simply serving as an outlet for the government in this instance? Apparently they were the pin newspapers were responding to requests from the justice department. (00:02:45) Well, I think you take each case as it comes newspapers are requests are made to newspapers by public agencies often. I know when I first came here, I was asked not to run a picture of Suspect in the shooting of a to police two police officers and st. Paul I adhered to that decision, but it's not one that I made lightly or any newspaper editor make slightly. You don't want to be used but at the same time we want to help protect the public when we can serve in that role or at least not create harm and so each one is a important than and tough decision that we would wrestle with (00:03:32) I guess I'd add to that that the world really is a greater place for for many of us that there are as we talked about media. Generally. There's a lot more complexity than decisions often time are less clear-cut than I think they may have been 20 years ago newspapers particularly had a rule that was an elite rule clearly above other media both in terms of numbers in circulation, but also, Sometimes in the arrogance of decision making we are trying to preserve the the basis of our business and what we believe about good journalism and good Public Service journalism. And at the same time we are trying to take these cases. I think more one by one and work through the gray and see how to balance the public service and our own Integrity. How many people are reading the newspapers your newspapers these days (00:04:28) well reading I would say about a million people in the Twin Cities a day read our newspaper. We have a little under four hundred thousand daily subscribers, but we know that more than one per household reads the paper and there's a high pass along rate and offices the Star Tribune Sunday circulation is 690,000. So we have a healthy newspaper Market in the Twin Cities particularly relative. Of to other cities (00:05:02) so circulation of daily circulation about 400,000 and then readership maybe of about a million. What's the same people are Sunday circulations about 280 and 211 on daily and there are sometimes more pass along readership daily than Sunday and and you can kind of figure readership numbers a number of different ways. I think it's it's true that we are seeing continued strong readership and intense readership, especially among traditional newspaper readers, and it does tend to be a habit that forms or has tended to be a habit that forms early in life and sticks with people are major problems in Industry are getting to younger people who have much more choice in media than anyone has ever had before our paper is essentially a dinosaur and a hanging on at this point what with the electronic media and especially now with with the with the computers. Coming on (00:06:01) well newspapers are still very profitable in many places and I don't think they're dinosaurs by any means just under 50% of the people in this country rely on newspapers daily. So there's still a lot of people who are paying attention to what's in their local newspapers. And of course some of the national papers we have in this country. I think most newspaper companies are trying to position themselves as information centers so that they can feed more than one medium. We know that some people will want a paper for many years to come while other people have already started transitioning to electronic mediums. So we want to be in a position to give them information by whatever means they want to reach get it and I think The Star Tribune and other companies are expanding their own definitions of themselves in order to make sure that the information is predominant and the medium is just the means (00:07:17) does that kind of evolution take away then from kind of the old traditional newspaper the resources and the energy that you would put into putting into that. I don't think I don't think it will I think that it means waves of change and people are seeing in their lives and other Industries as well. It's interesting. For instance. If you compare our industry to the TV industry and to three years ago people were saying about the broadcast networks that they were dinosaurs because they had lost market share to cable and they definitely have lost that they're not going to regain it, but we can see what's now happening over the last six months in terms of the lure of (00:07:56) broadcast and can many people said that about right You came along and radio is very (00:08:02) strong. We're proud to be dinosaurs. Actually, you're an old dinosaur in terms of the kind of news Gathering to it's interesting because there's a lot of I think full circle in information Industries where not only were there six or eight newspapers in big cities, but there were editions through the day and you could pick one up at 10:00 you pick one up at to you can pick one up at six now, we're down to one addition a day. What is happening as we go online and we're going online at the Pioneer Press in about the first of the year as we go online. There are there is the potential for again becoming and obviously not just the Pioneer Press Star Tribune and other online services 24-hour information mediums. Well, it raises all kinds of questions about not just how many resources but what kinds of news do we produce we've gotten away to some degree from being the Source for our news because you folks and and TV and CNN. Now if we have a 24-hour medium, what does that mean? When we have our news Gathering resources, we're all just starting to figure that out. (00:09:11) But for the newspapers themselves, we feel it's a great medium to provide in-depth reporting and context and that people find Value in our expertise in our Enterprise reporting and the Star Tribune wants to provide convenient and low and useful information for its readers, which extends Beyond spot news but readers expect to find spot news in their newspaper and will continue to provide that I think the real value comes in the in the in depth reporting that provides a lot of perspective and context for the readers. So that newspapers and my mind still do that on a daily basis better than anyone. (00:09:59) LSAT and horoscopes Scopes are very important to a lot of readers gotta love them kev's actor actually when you get a good report absolutely get those five stars Kevin dockter managing editor of the st. Paul Pioneer Press Pam fine is the news leader of the Star Tribune. We're talking about the newspapers newspaper industry in general specifically, the Twin Cities metro dailies. First caller is from Saint Paul Patricia. Hi there last week. I listened to dr. Clare got e on E from the Connecticut College speak about a pursuit of a civil society and it made me think about how I'd like to see the local newspapers play more of a role and in promoting that and I was so happy to see and Baker's piece in the st. Paul Pioneer Press yesterday about a lot of the different good things that are happening in communities and I would love to see the newspapers do a lot more of that. I know that it may not necessarily generate as much readership, but I really think I'd like to see them. Play that role. I mostly listen to public radio and read the newspaper. I don't have the time to watch television. I don't want to and I like to be able to have a something that's portable for digesting my nose and to do it at my own pace and I would like to also comment that I think that as people get older they tend to look to simplify their lives and I think people are going to be less likely to be looking for their news through Electronic media because they just don't it's distracting to people to watch television. At least it's to me and I find that with even other people that may have watched more when they're younger as they get older. They they tend to lean more towards reading the newspaper. So I'd like to see newspaper survive so that the Baby Boomers can get older and the demographics working in your favor you think The demographics of the Aging of population. Definitely. I think that we newspapers do well with Baby Boomers and since Baby Boomers do comprise the great bulk of the population still exactly what this listener saying is true and the portability of the newspaper and the comfort of the newspaper will continue probably through most of our careers. I mean, I think as Pam said there's there's kind of a parallel movement here. We are going to be doing online services and information services and looking at all kinds of ways to deliver, but I think that you're secure and getting a good print product in st. Paul as long as you want it. How do you reach a balance between a covering more traditional hard news stories and these all kind of community stories that she was (00:12:44) referring. Yeah, the caller made a good point in one we're talking a lot about in our Newsroom and that is about building community that I feel strongly at the Star Tribune that we have a role and providing solution-oriented coverage and pointing people toward things that work and also providing news coverage that can lead to a dialogue in the community to help neighborhoods or public officials talk and solve problems here. So I think there is a the need for a balance between traditional news coverage and news coverage that leaves people feeling as if they can improve their lives and the lives of their neighbors and their community and and make positive strides toward improving (00:13:44) Society. Isn't that kind of a slippery slope though? It's a real balance. It's a striking a balance one of the wonderful things about newspapers as we can do so many different kinds of things. Newsprint gets more and more expensive but we can do so many things we can entertain we can run the kinds of stories that listener talked about in terms of the good news in the community reflecting stuff. Now we can also do the traditional digging and investigative work and newspaper needs to be able to do all of those some of the things that Pam's talking about kind of falls under a rubric of public journalism, which is being talked about in our industry a lot. And that's the idea of both pointing out the problems but pointing out the solutions and a key question there and we're we're going to be debuting a 10-week series on Sunday about Public Safety called safer cities and that project is really trying to do both we are trying to dig for what is the real causes of the crime and Public Safety problems and trying to connect with readers and Community organizations deeper than we ever had. That's an experiment that we are doing here. We know that Can be a slippery slope. We know that we are not an Arbiter of saying here's the solution at the same time. It is so clear that communities our communities and Society need the media to help clarify. What's going on out (00:15:10) there? Yeah picking up on that point. I'd say we want to report on options. We want to tell people what is working and not working elsewhere rather than being prescriptive about a particular solution the slippery slope as you call. It comes around the issue of whether we are actually part of an event whether we're making news rather than reporting news and in some people's minds there's a line there that we should cross it might probably all of us in the and in the business feel that there are lines. We shouldn't cross but we do feel that we can that we should care about the community. That we should want public life to work and therefore in daily news coverage as well in big project or reporting identify who the stakeholders are for a story and how how people can arrive at (00:16:10) Solutions. What about the kind of the old-fashioned newspaper Crusade? I was reminded of things I was reading recently about one of the newspapers in st. Paul back in the thirties kind of leading the charge against the gangster element and running them out of town and so on is that the still a proper role for the newspapers where the where the newspaper proclaims on the front page or mad as hell not going to take it anymore that kind of thing. (00:16:37) Well, I think The Newsroom on a shine a spotlight on problems, but I believe the crusading to the editorial Pages. (00:16:45) Yeah, the crew saying a lot of crusading back to the 30s and before was essentially marketing ploys as ways of stirring up. People to buy lots more papers rather than really trying to get two solutions and I think people don't want to be told what to think but they want more than ever to get a much better idea of what they need to know and there is a there is an important difference there and just during people up in the old Hearst Hearst ways of doing it. I think when working at particularly when work in the Twin Cities David your question for our guest. Hi there a couple of quick comments and a question. First of all, I don't think the printed word will ever go away. There's just no substitute for Dino. I'd never settle for a totally electronic news medium. There's nothing like holding paper in your hands and reading it also, it seems that our local newspapers really have migrated to an entertainment device more than a news device. I mean, they're really daily magazines with the variety of kinds of stories and Reporting in there. Not so much hard news like you see in the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, especially and towards that. What why is it taking so long to have a technology section in newspapers to report on technology issues and use as an educational type of tool. Let me more than just a column or page but an entire section devoted towards towards that because there's more than enough news to fill something like that up. I'll hang up and listen then okay. First of all, have you become daily magazines with little hard news to share with people. I think I think in part we are magazines in there is more of a magazine emphasis add some another one of those balances that we have to strike and it is because depending on when news breaks if we come out in the morning if a story is breaking at nine o'clock in the morning or noon many many people we know from surveys will get their report of that news during the day before they're going to wake up and pick up the morning paper. So we have to look at what that balance is in reporting the Of what happened? And the why and the how and The Who Behind it? It is difficult balance and I hope we are doing it well, but that is the balance we're trying to do. (00:19:03) Yeah, I feel we have a lot of hard news in our newspaper, but there's no question that we've broadened the definition of news over the last two decades. Our news today is news about Fitness and how people spend their Leisure Time as well as what happens at City Hall or behind the scenes and a political campaign. So we have an Essence a daily cafeteria in which we give people a variety of kinds of news in order to to suit their needs we've brought in to make sure we're reaching women readers younger readers and trying to cover communities of Interest as well as actual Geographical communities and traditional institutions (00:19:57) and what about a technology section? (00:20:00) Well, we've expanded our technology reporting at the newspaper. We've used the word balance here today. It costs money to produce sections of both in terms of newsprint and Staffing and we keep asking ourselves whether we can provide information better than anyone else and there's a lot of information out there about technology offered by magazines and and other mediums we feel that we should indeed expand our own coverage and are continuing to do that. But it is a question of resources (00:20:48) and you make an excellent point and it is it is newspapers technology is a classic case of trying to find our Place in that with all the magazines that are very very specific and also people who are very technology oriented getting often technology news and information online question. We are sorting out and that's why I think we are slow and I agree with you. We are slow as an industry to figure it out is to figure out where we belong there that said I think you'll see in newspapers a lot more specific technology coverage whether for the home or for the office. We know that for instance. I think it's about 35 40 percent of homeowners or of residence in the Twin Cities have PCS about half have modems and an interesting number that we all pay attention to is that half of the homes with teenagers have PCS now and so that that is something that really meets our needs in terms of reaching all readers, but especially younger readers and I think you'll see more and fairly soon Bell home is on the line from Hyouta, hi Bill. Hey, I've got just two quick comments a little scolding for both of you and to which I solicit your response. I live in what now is called Greater Minnesota and I think both Twin Cities papers have neglected their responsibility to think of Minnesota is a state clearly the Star Tribune and to a lesser degree the Pioneer Press the we can't buy it out here. I remember the fondly the days when the Star Tribune used to send reporters to small towns in Minnesota and on the front page of the second section on Saturday. There was in-depth stories in wonderful photographs and somehow it gave the entire State a feeling of belonging to a community. So for whatever marketing reasons that was neglected. It seems to me a mistake and I'd be curious to your response to it. I think the Saint Paul paper does a better job but the circulation out here is very planks out the point you make and as a marketing point is is the problem It seems like the last 10 years of our lives and everything. We report and the workplaces. We see around us is a crunch on costs and maybe that's the globalization of the economy. I don't know but from a point of view of the economics of newspapers and how newspaper companies look at it in terms of a business 80% of the money comes from advertising about 20% from readers so that out state or greater. Minnesota circulation is loved by people in newsrooms. We want to reach as many people as possible the economics of delivering too many OTA and around the state become increasingly difficult and increasingly hard to support and I think that's the problem. The industry is facing. (00:23:38) Okay? Well Kenneth put a very well, we try to cover the big stories out State and we do a lot of Enterprise reporting, but the truth is that we focus on the primary. Is in the metropolitan area rather than put more resources (00:23:58) Statewide now, maybe online. I'll help you there. I won't have the same feel. Remember you have you're talking to a guy who doesn't own either a TV set or computer. Well, we'll have to send one out to you which leads me to my second small comment and that's a newspapers. I'm in the writing business myself. So I suppose the some degree were United by a common Bond. We're preservers of language, right? And again the harsher word for the Star Tribune. The Pioneer Press on this the new redesigned means less language and a sort of toning down of the language and a sort of USA saying today. I love the magazine that the Star Trek had that they distributed only to the metro area was sad to see it disappear and was appalled by USA Today arriving in the grand old Minnesota newspaper Pam. (00:24:49) Well our redesign actually oops Our redesign actually helps us carry as much news as we did before we've added. It. Looks like there's a little bit more room because we've gotten rid of some of the leading between sentences but we really haven't diminish the amount of news in the newspaper (00:25:19) style of writing has changed though in newspapers certainly over over a longer period of time has it not and it keeps on changing last year. We were up in Hinckley over the weekend stop by the museum, which of course chronicled the fire and we had the anniversary last year and it was amazing to me to read the front pages of the papers including the one of our ancestor papers. The writing then was absolutely literary in inform their all kinds of changes some Push by technology part of it is In is is a form of fashion in some ways. It is also a question of how newspapers want to communicate with readers. There are really a lot of writing styles right now existing in American newspapers. And I think the challenge is and I think we strike a pretty good balance there to is that writing is important. I think Bill's point about language is important to those of us who are journalists the be clear and accurate is the most important but beyond that to engage takes good writing and I think there are too many newspapers in the United States and two major nihilism schools around the country who don't emphasize that part of it Josephine your question. Well, I'm an avid newspaper reader. I have been so many years from cover to cover Sports and everything and the new format in the Star Tribune is turning me off completely yesterday was announced to all those sections will be Design, like the varieties and the and to see the business. It's still legible just sit in it's become so Rudy the writing has diminished. I am canceling my subscription. Well, we'll take it. (00:27:12) We got a lot of feedback from readers about the variety of redesign and amended it some and our latest survey show that more people like our new design than not we know that readers want a newspaper that's easier to read That's quicker to read that they can get on two levels for the people who are in a hurry. We're we've provided what we call more layering so that they're the headlines are bigger. There are some precedes before the stories so that people in a hurry can get the information. Mation, they need more quickly at the same time. We're trying to we're continuing to provide the depth and context that our readers expect. So we're redesigning the newspaper to try to reach both kinds of information (00:28:11) Seekers. Do you expect we're going to see more color in the newspapers. I remember when you first started using Color here a few years ago. I mean it's like night and day if you if you now get a paper with the front page, for example, it is a black and white picture on it sure you kind of shocked. Well, what if I what am I looking at? I don't think you're going to see a lot more you're going to see you're going to see some more but the the oldest part of the newspaper industry at this point the newsrooms and the ad systems are all computerized. It's the old printing press which is really early 20th century technology. And while there are some more color capacity. There isn't a lot more and there is also the question when you look at the tremendous cost and printing press and that's really what's going to drive. Have this online traditional newspaper question. How much in the way resource is a worth putting into Old steel Machinery as opposed to to the new and so that's balanced and as we get to even faster modems is 28 8 modems double and you can see pictures online in color that's going to be interesting to see how competitive that is because every picture can be in color and we'll be going to a world where you can see video on your on your PC without downloading it or maybe you can just pass out blank sheets of newsprint and then I can print up his newspaper right at home our guest today Pam fine. Who's the news leader of the Star Tribune can doctor managing editor of the st. Paul Pioneer Press, Joe. You're up next. Joe okay. Yes. Go ahead. Oh, thanks for taking my call. I have several comments. I would like to reiterate the feelings that the last caller expressed as to the new format for the Star Tribune. I would like to a couple that with my unhappiness with the rates the cost of the paper has it keeps Rising urine and you're out it seems to me if the newspaper or wanted to economize they would shorten the number of pages and condense the type and the spacing and printed as the as the Wall Street Journal is printed. I read the Wall Street Journal every day and I get most of my information there and I read the Star Tribune and I read the little sort of by lines and decide not to read it as how it comes out. Okay, the problem we have in this area is we don't have any choice we have to take one or the other of the two papers if we want to get any local news at all. And I find that the local news coverage is pretty skimpy and Finally, the other thing I'm concerned about with respect to writing style particularly is that you can't tell the difference between a fact in an opinion. And so many of the pieces that are written locally the writers seem to mix them up with wild abandon and don't stick to facts. Okay when they do report. Okay. Those are those are some things we can talk about. I don't want to get into the fort we've said everything there is to say about the format change. So I think we can pass over that rates. Are they going to continue to go up circulation cost buying the newspaper as raw materials go up. They will (00:31:23) ya the Star Tribune is trying to produce a newspaper that's more valuable to readers and hoping to get readers to pay for that value. I think Ken made the point earlier that 80% of the revenue from newspapers as come from advertisers and advertisers cannot Continue to sustain those large increases. So the industry is looking for a way to balance that out some and to make the newspaper more valuable to readers so that they're willing to pay for (00:32:02) it local news coverage now reading between the lines. I think what he was referring to as pretty much traditional spot news coverage government meetings in the rest finds it pretty skimpy. (00:32:14) Well, that's where I'd be on the defensive and say that local news is our franchise. It's what we do best. It's what we want to do best and most of our resources are to cover local news. And I think it's continuing to get (00:32:34) better but you don't go you don't go to the City Council meetings much anymore. Do you we go, I think it's true of both papers is that and newspapers generally is that there is less. In blow-by-blow of everything that happened at the city council meeting and more selectivity as to what's most important. It really depends. I mean, I know in terms of our ratings are readers think that our local news content is real good. They are generally satisfied with it local news mean so many different things to so many people to some people it literally means their neighborhood some people that means the Twin Cities and Regional issues and we can feel like we're doing a good job and I think we are for a readers but as this listener points out, we're not doing it for him. Now, what we need to know is more about that. Maybe we can maybe we can't but we need to know more about what he means by local now, what about this mixing of fact and opinion? I know the traditional line has been well, we express our opinions on the editorial page and the News pages are straight ahead news. But a lot of people don't believe that well, I think there's been we are pretty clear about columnists. Both papers are columnists are very important part of the newspaper in reflecting clear point of view and opinion. I think what where the gray area is and where people will disagree although we know that most readers like it is that if if we no longer have the sole responsibility of reporting the news of saying what happened to give perspective to say the why and the how we have on our stabs smart people who have background and perspective in whatever their cover whether it's politics or health or education the readers want that kind of perspective to understand what's going on. There's a clear line there and we really try to follow it between what they know about situation the context that can bring and stating their opinion Pam. Is there a problem occasionally with trying to juice up the writing. But he sits down to write a story and they want to make it a little more colorful than just a dull recitation and sure enough if you analyze it real closely. There are some pretty pretty solid opinions expressed in that straight ahead and his (00:35:01) story. Well, I think can't be an editor for very long without coming across work that needs editing but our reporters strive to be fair and sometimes we have to tone things down when we feel someone's crossing the line, but we're not stenographers and people want us to provide that expertise and we work very hard to to be fair and to provide context and not cross that line. I think people do have a difficult time distinguishing between the editorial page voice and News voice and I found even though internally there's a big divide their that the readers tend to blur that and we're constantly fighting that perception since the there is an editorial page editor who is different from the editor The News Leader at the paper, but the editorial voice sometimes transcends (00:36:17) Leo. You're up next. Go ahead, please you had to go but this is Fred. Okay Fred, I'll post a question in the schools here in the Twin Cities. Both of your newspapers are used. I know of two in the sixth grade and one in junior high school to teach differences between agenda and points of view and there are several institutions. They'll use the material from their own newsletters their own pamphlets. Consumer groups and so forth and then they'll use your newspapers. And I think if you overlook the fact that people don't regard you as having a specific point of view you will Probably continue to lose subscribers. If you admit that in address that point in put yourself on the Spectrum like the teachers in some of these schools do with the kids pointing out that hey this is what the star stands for C go over these last nine months of papers and you'll see if you put your head in the sand and don't acknowledge that then your reporting is such that in your paper is such that folks will just not subscribe because that will come across to them that you're playing that game. Okay Star Tribune left-of-center Pioneer Press a little bit more middle of the road is that are those accurate perceptions of your newspapers, they seem to be perceptions of the marketplace. I mean, we believe it should be enough to acknowledge that our job is journalist. And that's the guy At news and information out as fully rounded as we can get it all the best sources we can get to give people a big accurate picture of what's going on. That is literally it. I know a lot of people think that it's bigger than that or that there's something behind it sometimes and there certainly can be in any given article by a given writer. We print millions of words every day, but the intent here is to do our mission, which is to get you the best information we can and it is not a political mission. Pam you hear it all the time, especially with the streb you over and over again. The governor was railing few weeks ago about the Star Tribune being unfair and a liberal organ and so on so forth. If it isn't true, how does how does this percent? Why does the perception (00:38:54) linger? Well again, I think it transcends from the editorial page. It's a perception that that permeates because of the traditional views of our editorial page, but in our news columns, we take great pains to strive for objectivity and to cover both sides of issues and to to play it straight and to not present a point of view or let a reporters, you know, or to have any kind of political agenda or agenda for stories (00:39:37) Alan. Thank you. I have a very narrow question from his fine. It has to do with the star tribunes policy of not reporting reefs in the case of crimes and criminal suspects the usual answer that the Star Tribune policymakers. Give is it number one? It's not relevant and number two. The readers will draw the wrong conclusions about the criminal propensities of various races. If it's not relevant, why do you report sex and age of criminal suspects and if we are not able to draw appropriate conclusions from that information since all of your reporters and editors undoubtedly know the race of criminal suspects in virtually every case. Can we infer that all of your reporters are (00:40:25) racist not at all, you know, the industry is and I've been at the Star Tribune for 18 months and its policy mirrors policies all over the We have try to recognize a multicultural community and world and not single people out because of race or / Try to perpetuate stereotypes. I will say that in my own mind. I have questioned whether particularly in the cases of rape in a neighborhood whether I'd want to know the race of a suspect as a woman who you know may be out alone at night. I certainly want as much identifying information as possible at the same time for the greater public good. I think a lot of mistakes can be made and that if we have information that is very specific and which it is really identifying we will use that information. But when it's General Mation and nobody really knows for sure. We felt ultimately that it's been more harmful than good to provide it. (00:41:46) Next question Dave calling from Minneapolis. Yeah. Hi. How are you? Pretty good. I'm a subscriber to both the Minneapolis paper the st. Paul paper in the New York Times. And the thing that I found real disappointed is that the increasing dependency of both Minneapolis and st. Paul paper on using the New York Times as filler and fact what's really disturbing is more and more there's like a Time Gap maybe a day or two for the st. Paul paper and sometimes as much as a week to two weeks same articles that will be in the New York Times will appear in the Minneapolis paper. You are you are one of a very small percentage of people who reads both the times and and local papers what we have to look at in putting together. Our nation World Report is the same question we have locally, how do we get our readers the best information? We subscribe to New York Times Washington Post to LA Times and knight-ridder news service. What we do there is we try to pick out and get as timely as possible. The best stories that are going to be the national stories that most of our readers great majority will get from us because they aren't reading the times I can understand the overlap in your case, but given that we're printing one newspaper. That is the best we can do in one newspaper. Let's move on to our next question got a call are from Rochester on the line Jim. Good afternoon. I'd like to propose that both papers need an editorial writer who examines issues legislation questions Etc from an output of Outstate point of view Allstate readers deserve this information and Metro readers need to be made aware of the Statewide impact of these questions you in both papers have a Pulpit from which these kinds of questions could be more broadly examined than they are today. Yeah, what do you think about (00:43:47) that? Well, I think it's a good suggestion and we'll pass it along. (00:43:52) Okay, Peter you're next. Peter your question, please. Well, it's it's kind of more of a comment. I got invited by the star trips Consultants to make some comments and join their Consulting Group or Marketing Group to survey their sports section and what amazed me was how they forced the The issues so that it was almost black and white comparing the new format to the old format. The new format was shown on laser paper. The old format was shown on the old. So you're here you're advocating you'd like that old format back at the Star Tribune. Well, yes, I do. It was easy to read but I think what's happened is that the editorial board has gotten duck out on a limb and they're too afraid to come back. Well, thanks for your comment. I think we let's move on away from the form a tissue if we can we got just a couple of minutes left boy. This is a hot issue. Hey, I'm you hear a lot about this at the paper. I (00:45:00) suppose well and it's timely as we're introducing the new design. But again, I sat in on all of the focus groups around the sports section and most it was overwhelmingly in favour of the new format the reader certainly like Information provided by the Star Tribune over the years but they said the new format will be easier to read and more lively and more useful and I had no vested interest in hearing what I wanted to hear. What we want to do is provide a newspaper that's valuable to our readers. So I was very pleased with the reaction from the group. This gentleman says he was in (00:45:44) next caller is from Minneapolis, Eric. Yes. Hello. I read both newspapers and I wanted to just say that I enjoy both and the Star Tribune though. I come from New York and I really enjoyed the Star Tribune since I got here because it is a more Progressive newspaper and I think that the staff there instead of being defensive about it ought to be proud of their Progressive Heritage and until the governor where stick it basically because now I gotta let me interrupt here Eric. Chapter perception of the Star Tribune as a more Progressive papers that comes solely from the editorial page or does that come from the way the paper in general operates? Well, it comes from the editorial page. It comes from the columns that they pick up off their new off their wire services. And it also I think comes from the news with a view section and all and just the the in-depth coverage that they do on various issues that I don't see in other newspapers so much and I also I noticed That if I see an article if I see something in the Star Tribune, I might notice a get picked up by MPR a week later. And it's it's it's something that I think the entire media of the area kind of picks up on and starts talking about and I think that's very important for a community conversations on issues. Okay. (00:47:11) Well, I thank you. We're quite proud of our news report. We do feel we help set the news agenda in this state. We do a lot of investigative work and I am feel very lucky to be a newspaper editor here because people are very engaged and highly educated and wherever I go people have comments on the paper, but many many of them are positive and I appreciate your (00:47:39) sentiments we have time for at least one more caller Susan Shows on your question, please. It really bothers me to see that leg. But also I would like to see just more hard news and Analysis of hard news and less feature soft stuff. I can get that in a magazine. What kinds of news do you think you're missing? Well when this whole Serbia Bosnia thing started I think a lot of us were saying, okay, what's the background to this didn't have ottoman history in school or something. (00:48:17) I forgot it. Yeah, one of the I mean that's a difficulty because we have written many many stories provided maps and background text on Bosnia for example, and unfortunately, we can't predict when people are going to see it so that if we did it Sunday or Tuesday and you're reading the paper Thursday, it's hard to anticipate for everybody what they will know or don't know we continually provide background or updates on stories. In the newspaper, but sometimes it's not there the the day the reader picks it up. So it's a good point. It's one we struggle with as we're trying to cram a lot of news into the (00:49:02) newspaper. We have only about a minute or so to go minute and a half a couple of quick questions for you here at first of all, what's the most popular sections in the newspaper? What are the the a section of the newspaper the front page and the metro section will have the highest readership incredibly intense readership in a sports section. We have a feature called bulletin board which has taken off from nothing five years ago and has 65 percent readership. So there are specific things found in a newspaper where there's Comics or bulletin board or a special columnist that will bring in well over a majority of the population and usually about 90% Plus for page one same for (00:49:45) the yeah the same at the Star Tribune people want news. The they rely on the front page to tell them the most important stories of the day. And then the metro section is the second-highest (00:49:58) red. Who's the most popular columnist at each paper? And (00:50:04) I don't know. (00:50:06) Well, I think far probably longest-standing is Josie Sheree on the on the metro section Catherine land for who has been our columnist for a couple years now is gaining quickly and probably has a somewhat different readership gaining quite quickly and then Sports columnist Tom Powers and Charlie Walters and Bobs and sphere (00:50:26) we have it's going to say Wherever I Go people ask me about (00:50:28) Sid. He was a big draw during our Labor Day program with Howard Singer was on with the sit Hartman's business cards last question. If somebody still wants to get into the newspaper business, is it the best way to go to journalism school or what should they do? I always like it was talking to a job candidate yesterday a good liberal arts education people who know as much as they can about the world and have a genuine burning curiosity and some fire in their belly to do journalism is what I look for Technical Training is helpful, but is really secondary. Thanks so much for coming in. Both of you really appreciate. It cam doctor managing editor of the st. Paul Pioneer Press Pam find news leader of the Star Tribune.