MPR’s Paul Schroeder interviews authors Rip Rapson and Kevin Proescholdt about their book “Troubled Waters: The Fight for the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness.” Rapson and Proescholdt, both environmentalists, detail the historical controversies of logging, mining, and recreation of the Boundary Waters.

Transcript:

(00:00:00) You know this Friday, there's going to be a hearing up in International Falls Minnesota. Senator. Rod grams will be holding a joint house-senate field hearing on efforts to expand motorized access to the Boundary Waters canoe area and voyageurs National Park dfl representative. Jim Oberstar from that area has introduced legislation that would remove restrictions on motorboats snowmobiles and Float planes sighting in his words overly restrictive management practices by the federal Park. Us which he says has gone too far in its ownerís management style. Well, the hearing in International Falls as expected to be well attended by Northern Minnesota groups who've been dissatisfied with the legislation that was enacted in 1978 establishing the BWC a and later voyageurs National Park. They say the economic impact promised at that time has not been met visitors total only 240 thousand a year as opposed to the 1.4 million predicted now that the Republicans Control Congress. They're hoping for a more sympathetic result one that will result in local and State control of the Wilderness Area environmentalists, of course are fighting to maintain the Wilderness designation. It's a repeat of the same arguments that took place prior to the enactment of the 1978 legislation documented in a soon-to-be published a book called Troubled Waters to of the authors are with us today to take a look back at the history of this controversy. Rip rapson was a legislative aide to then congressman. Don Fraser and worked on getting the BWC a legislation passed. He also chaired the board of directors of The Boundary Waters Wilderness Foundation Kevin, press alt is executive director of the friends of The Boundary Waters Wilderness. Good morning to both of you. Good morning. Good morning. And first of all, we should acknowledge the third co-author of this book who's no longer with us and he is but go ahead hit but

(00:01:54) heinzelmann a Forester who really became the Godfather of this whole BWC a movement.

(00:02:00) Well, you know, I'm sure that there are people in northern Minnesota right now and even throughout the state who are thinking I'm sure they've got a couple of these environmentalists on to talk about this clearly you are on the side of the environmentalist both of you work to get the Wilderness designation established, but we're looking more back at the history of this dispute and how history has tended to repeat

(00:02:22) itself. It's an over again Paul. It's really a powerful image. I mean as you open the newspaper or Listen to NPR's coverage of the voyagers hearings. You can't help whether we haven't been here before and and of course we have and I think you're right. I mean Kevin and I both come at this from an environmental perspective. But I think what both of us find far more interesting than just who's right or who's wrong or who's allowed us to at the moment is the whole historical development that has engulfed both voyagers in the BWC and I think what the historical record shows is that the kinds of disputes that are simmering up there as we speak. Are very much indistinguishable from the kinds of disputes that occurred not just in 1978, but in 1963 in 1948 and 1925, the the record is quite rich with the kind of challenges that this area has faced over almost a full Century,

(00:03:17) you know, and yeah, in fact you say in your book that it was back at the beginning of the 20th century that this kind of all came to the Forefront what was going on at that time in? At area of Northeastern Minnesota and in what was the reaction to

(00:03:34) it at the time around the turn of the century the we were seeing kind of the the Heyday of the Big Pine logging era in northeastern Minnesota, which of course had kind of devastated the the pine resources further south in the state earlier, but had reached Northern Minnesota at the time. The logging had started in. What is now the BWC a about 1895? And so by the turn of the century were seeing the height of the Big Pine logging era. There was a great interest in in mining and minerals both iron ore and precious metals and the area was was being viewed as just another Frontier to open up and develop we're very fortunate in that there were a whole host of really farsighted people starting around the turn of the century who recognized that this area was really special and unique and should be preserved starting in

(00:04:30) That is unusual for that time of the of our history, isn't it? I mean this is because the ravaging of the land if you choose to call it that was happening all over

(00:04:40) it certainly was in Minnesota that I'm an old Civil War veteran by the name of Christopher C Andrews who was then his title was Chief Fire Warden, which is now the equivalent of the DNR forestry to director had taken a canoe trip through what is now the Boundary Waters went in his old age essentially and became quite captivated by the area and wrote to the federal General land office saying let's Reserve these areas from from homesteading and preserve them in public ownership. But one of the fascinating things about the emergence of these issues over the next decades was that there was just wave upon wave of different Challenge and no no sooner had the big logging sort of gotten established and there was actually a proposal. It seems incredible today too damn the entire. International boundary essentially create the Hoover Dam up there by this entrepreneur who came very close to realizing his dream and it took years and years of fighting not just from the traditional conservation Community, but from a brought much broader spectrum of interest to beat that back and then in the 40s, there was a sort of a second wave of challenges to the era area in which Resorts were created way tucked in deep in the BWC and Float planes airplanes equipped with little Pontoon boats that permitted people to drop down onto the Lakes just saturated the area and it became such an incessant problem that President Truman was finally called in and he issued an airspace reservation that basically prohibited airplanes from dropping below 4000 feet in the wake of that. The resorts were less viable and a lot of them were condemned and there was this huge Guerrilla movement up in northern Minnesota to resist the federal government coming in and taking the Resort's out and taking these interior cabins out and preventing the forest service from enforcing these flyover regulations. it just it's it's remarkable that there has really been not a decade that has gone by without a major controversy in to say nothing of what really intensifies then in the 60s and the 70s which is really the topic of our book

(00:06:44) what's unique about this area that that there has been this controversy because right now we've continued to hear of I've never done it myself, but I know that there are lots of people who fly into Canada on these planes and you can only get there by flying in you know, what's the problem with doing it in this particular area?

(00:07:05) What part of it goes to some of the basic philosophy behind protecting a Wilderness and that A wilderness should be preserved from development such as logging and Mining but as well from the motorized and mechanized access that that's the rest of the country is subject to and what we were seeing particularly in the in the late 1940s was staggering increase in the number of float plane flights into the Wilderness Area. And in a loss of the very characteristics of the Wilderness that so many had struggled for so long to protect we actually have in the book a wonderful quotation from Sigrid Olsen the environmental author and activist who sat on his point is listening point on bird side Lake and counted something like forty three flights during the time. It took him to get from one side of his Lake to the other. It's it was a phenomenal thing was like the O'Hare Airport of Canoe Country Healy had come the largest Inland seaplane base on the whole continent. That's a measure of how much flying activity there was.

(00:08:13) So then when that was banned, I mean what's fun about your book to is that you tell the stories of these individual people and there were a couple of Resort owners who did what they could in order to keep their their guests

(00:08:25) coming well, and I hope one of the things that we've done in the book is not demonize these folks. These were tough rugged individualists and these Ends of resistance characters emerge throughout the BWC at a couple of the resort owners were particularly pesky in the 50s and went to extreme lengths to defy the federal government, but it's not so different from I think the more civil and more creative and more organized approach that we then saw in the 60s and the 70s and it's a fascinating lineup because it's what's clear is that these are people in the northern Community who are passionate about their land who feel quite strongly that they can manage it quite properly. Thank you. And that there is a reason for them to be somewhat paranoid of the role of the Federal Government. Ultimately the environmental position obviously is that there's a need for that kind of federal intervention, but I think what makes this history so interesting is that there are colorful colorful players on all sides of the issue and certainly the folks who have resisted these increasing regulatory aspects of federal government involvement have been fascinating.

(00:09:31) Oh, yeah. Yeah, the rugged individualist that typifies the The true American a lot of people would say yes. Can you clear up any confusion that I and other people might have about the difference between voyageurs National Park and the BWC a

(00:09:47) sure that is a very common confusion. They are two separate areas. The BWC A wilderness is about 1.1 million Acres the northern 1/3, essentially of Superior National Forest, which is managed by the u.s. Forest service voyageurs National Park is a separate unit immediately to the west of The Boundary Waters along the international boundary. It's a smaller area of about two hundred and eighteen thousand acres and it is managed by the National Park Service. But the BWC a has become much better known throughout the decades and many people still confuse the areas or think that voyagers is a part of the Boundary Waters and not its own area, but they are two distinct separate areas managed by two separate federal agencies and the management styles as a They're quite different the the fight over the voyagers park that is now going on has to do largely with how much motorboat you is how much snowmobile use should we set aside some area in which motorboats and snowmobiles will be prohibited. That is the fight. We've already had with the BMW CA and that culminated in the 1978 act about which we write. So you have a much more Wilderness driven management plan in the BWC a in a much more recreational driven plan in the voyagers park.

(00:11:02) Okay, but a lot of people think it's still to Strict Aviv in

(00:11:05) voyagers. Oh, some people certainly do I think we contend that that voyagers started out as a compromise park with the initial legislation that passed Congress in 1971 that there are no restrictions on motor boats or snowmobile use on the for large lakes in voyagers park that make up nearly 40 percent of the entire park surface area and in looked at in that terms it's the voyagers is the most heavily motorized National Park in the entire. country so Voyager started out as a compromise Park and but there are some people who feel that there are too many restrictions as it is and there is a fear on the part of some people in the northern part of the state about Wilderness designation and that somehow that is is going to destroy the local economy and I certainly don't think that's the case Ely and Grand Marais for example near the BWC A wilderness are booming and they are doing an extraordinary well because they have this Priceless Wilderness resource right on their doorstep. There are actually two other Federal Wilderness areas in the state in National Wildlife refuges and Agassi National Wildlife Refuge near Thief River Falls, for example, and they're of course the good folks of Thief River Falls are not up in arms about the terrible Wilderness designation that and all the Havoc that that has wrought in their local community. So I think there's a fair amount of Of fear of wilderness designation that I don't think is warranted. The other thing of all is I think that it's one of the reasons having a little bit of a step back and look at a historical record is helpful because what appears to be sort of new and sort of freshly agitating now in the dispute, in fact is is exactly the same dispute. And as you mentioned in your introduction are exactly the same arguments as we've had before and that doesn't mean they're any less. Solid but I think it's important to put some of that in the historical context. One of the first things we talk about in the book is the pressure that Hubert Humphrey came under in the late 1950s and early 1960s from northern Minnesota residents when he proposed to put the BWC a into the national Wilderness system at that point, it had no official national designation, and he wanted to create a national Wilderness system. He was the Godfather of that system and and put the BWC in it and he took enormous pressure and enormous Heat and the Moments were exactly the same arguments is that it's too much Federal control. Why can't the local folks do it can't we permit motorboating and snowmobiling and logging to continue? And in fact, one of the ironies of history is that Humphreys legendary ability to split the middle caused him Untold grief because when he put the BWC a in the National Wilderness system in 1964, he actually carved out an exception for it and said all of the pre-existing logging and all of the pre-existing Voting can continue well for the next decade people thought about what that meant. And does that mean you can expand or does it have to stay the same and It ultimately laid the seeds for the great fight of the 1976 1978 era.

(00:14:17) Yeah. Well, we're going to get into that in just a moment because there's a lot of political. Hay that was made over this issue as well. Let me tell listeners who your who they're listening to its rip rapson who was a legislative aide to then Congressman. Don Fraser worked on getting the BWC a legislation passed. Impress Holt is executive director of the friends of The Boundary Waters Wilderness. And it's 21 minutes past 10 o'clock. They've got a new book. That's about to be published. Actually, August 29th is the publication date and it's called Troubled Waters that traces the history of The Boundary Waters canoe area want to play a clip of tape. I did an interview earlier this year with Elmer Anderson, the former governor of Minnesota who was instrumental in the formation of voyageurs national park and he says, Talks about how long it took to get that Park

(00:15:07) established. I became interested in our state having a national park and feeling that the area up in the Border was ideal for that and in 1960 when Conrad worth who was the son of Theodore worth of Minneapolis Park history was director of the National Park Service of we thought here's our chance. So in connection with dedicating some state parks, I Think one was Bear head Lake State Park when Conrad worth came out to speak. We got him to spend an extra day and we went up in toward the cab Atacama Peninsula area to see if we could convince him that that area was worthy enough of National Park status to at least deserve a study. That's all we ask for that we thought this really ought to be a national park, but would he at least agree to study the possibility in the potentiality in the And he agreed to do so it took 10 years from 1960 to 1972 gather public support and Minnesota to get the work done in Congress to get a bill passed that authorized the park. That's only the beginning it took 10 more years to get the land exchange and to get other state legislation and to get other things done that justified establishing the park. The first step is authorization. The second step is is to really establish the park and that was done in 1980. Then it took seven more years to get the money to build a visitor center and other facilities so somebody could drive in and the facilities were there so they could really have a national park experience in Minnesota. The only water-based Park in the whole. System and I was at that I was at the beginning in 1960 and worked on and off for 27 years. I thought project and a 1987. I was there for the dedication to Visitor Center. So I've come to have great patience about how long it takes and I

(00:17:23) forever that's a former Governor Elmer Anderson talking about his involvement in the creation of voyageurs national park and I think really giving a sense of just how long it did take and It was fairly recent in this whole history really now. Here's a republican governor and you know really again was instrumental in the creation of that park. Now what's going on is I think that a lot of the people who support more motorized access in the BWC a see a friendly or congress in the Republicans, and and that's one of the reasons for bringing this up now, but I want to go back to the politics and what happened back in the 70s because It was incredible. I don't think I've lived here all my life and I don't think I ever remember a time before or since that there was that much animosity between members of the same party in the dfl party and rip. I know you were right in the thick

(00:18:21) of it. Wait, I yes I indeed I was right in the thick of it and it was it was as divisive fight. I think is the state as has ever had politically. I was talking to a young reporter the other day about this dispute. And I said, well, you know in 1978 the Democrats sort of ate their own tail. They they lost both Senate seats and the governorship and her eyes just got bigger and bigger and bigger and she said when was this 1938 and I said no, this was 1978. It is both very recent memory because many of the players are the same but it seems like distant memory for for many just to remind remind your listeners essentially the BWC a cost three people there Statewide office. Don Fraser lost the primary. Of his Senate race to a fella named Bob Short who played the BWC card very strongly Fraser lost with 500,000 votes cast by 3,000 votes in the city of Ely alone. He lost by mm. So clearly Northern Minnesota turned the tide Wendy Anderson and his handling of this.

(00:19:23) He was

(00:19:24) actually Anderson was the sitting Senator. Yeah, that's right. He had appointed himself to the senate seat and Governor purpose had taken his place. And so Anderson lost boschwitz, I think again largely over. His role and in the BWC and Rudy perpich lost the governorship probably for any number of reasons, but it was a huge debacle for the dfl party. And I think one of the interesting points you make is that this has really defied partisan politics back in the 70s boschwitz was on the environmentalist side Anderson was not Fraser was on the environmentalist side during Burger was not I mean it was the people were all over the map on this and I think you're seeing that played out a little bit in the hearings this week. You have a And senator who is is initiating these hearings but he's been very careful to say he's up there to listen. He's making no prejudgments. He may or may not be trying to stake out his sort of his conservative Bona fides, but on the other hand the real players up. There are Senator Doug Johnson and lizard and Jim Oberstar and many of the same people who have been in the middle of this fight for 20 years on the Democratic side of the aisle. So this is not about dfl politics or republican

(00:20:30) politics a lot of passion involved in this in this this whole area on both sides Kevin, you know that the environmentalist as well as the people who live up there who do see not so much a you know, a loss of an economy that's there already but the loss of a potential for what they see as if they could develop it a little bit more they can attract more people the numbers of the people who are visiting voyagers in particular are far lower than what had been predicted when it was

(00:21:02) established they are but Compare those figures to the BWC A wilderness, which is the most popularly visited Wilderness in the entire National Wilderness preservation system and the number of actual visitors to voyageurs park at 1/5. The size of the Boundary Waters is still more than the number of visitors to the BWC a so there there is a healthy tourist base for voyagers Park itself the other thing to Pol again sort of going back to the historical record is one of the arguments I think here is that with both voyagers but for in and beat You see but particularly BWC. I think you can make the case that we really sort of spilled our state's blood on this and made our peace. And even though there are slivers of people in northern Minnesota who still want to fight these fights by and large Northern Minnesota has really made its adjustments and made its peace to this new management scheme and I think what Kevin mentioned earlier about the Vitality of Ely and a whole new way of looking at the BWC as an asset rather than a liability has has clearly Come true. They have had now in 15 16 17 years since the Act was passed and opportunity to create a whole new approach to attracting people. Why ultimately is Ali and Grand Marais our alien Grand Marais going to try to be Brainard. I mean there are lots of places. You can take a motor boat and a jet ski, but there aren't very many places. You can go out and and have a paddle only experience or a cross-country ski experience. My favorite example is that there is a wonderful Lodge on the Gunflint Trail called East Bearskin Lodge that fought us tooth and nail. In 1978. I can't tell you how adamantly they fought us because they could not possibly survive under this new regimen called tomorrow and try to get a reservation for a cross-country ski trip any time this winter Eddie Spirits can Lodge you can't do it. They to their enormous credit. They have marketed themselves as a Wilderness experience and you can't get in. I mean they're doing very well Bruce. Kerfoot. One of the great opponents of of this whole management scheme his absolutely prospered under this and again, it's to his credit. He has understood that he has a unique resources and he's Marketing it the examples go on and

(00:23:06) on we've run out of time. But this issue is going to continue. Of course you are you going to be up there on Friday at the hearing Kevin. I know you will

(00:23:14) be I'm planning to be there. Yes. Yeah. I've been there once already. I think I like it. Yeah

(00:23:19) rip rapson and Kevin presh all thanks a lot for coming in today. Thank you very much Paula. They are two of the co-authors of the book called Troubled Waters which traces the history of the BWC a and that is expected to be published August 29th. Is the publication date. Actually, so be looking for it.