Few years ago Tipper Gore made national headlines with her campaign against vulgar Music Lyrics these days Tipper Gore has been joined by a lot of other people people who are not only concerned about music lyrics but sex and violence on TV in the movies in advertising and for that matter on the internet last month Tipper Gore was the keynote speaker at a conference in Nashville on the media and the family the conference was co-sponsored by the University of Minnesota has children Youth and Family Consortium and they were going to hear Tipper Gore's comments. Then we'll be opening the phone lines for your thoughts and comments on this issue. So we hope you'll be able to join us throughout the our first know to introduce Tipper Gore here is her husband vice president Al Gore.I said that it was my particular pleasure to introduce our keynote speaker. This year Tipper has been my inspiration throughout the years. I have been involved with this issue. She was involved in it a long time before I was a long time before a great many people were involved with it in her inspiration in turn was our children and specifically her concern for what?Families are surrounded within our media culture. Let her to ask the question. Does it have to be this way? Can we change it in a responsible manner? She was for many years and has been for many years as a brave and lonely Warrior for change and I can tell you. Having witnessed firsthand what she went through that very few people in public life suffered. The vicious criticism that was aimed at her terrible words intended to hurt Miss representation of what she was all about. Sometimes it seemed as if they were willful misrepresentation, but That goes with it when you are trying to bring about change in an area that is as fraught with controversy as this area. You're going to get that but it takes it takes courage. It really does and I I could tell a lot of stories about the long nights where some of the words of some of the words hurt, but she never slow down. She just kept on going in as she says she welcomes everyone in both political parties and of all political Persuasions to join in an American National effort to try to create a responsible solution for the set of problems that we're addressing a today in this conference and Looking at these problems and opportunities through the lens of family policy with the Bedrock assumption that you're going to have to start with the family unit. If you going to come up with a solution that works has been extremely helpful in Illuminating what works what could work what doesn't work and it's interesting because that's the lens through which she first noticed the problem and first saw the need to act it is with all the love in my heart that I introduce our keynote speaker Tipper Gore. any music Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was a very nice introduction and I really do appreciate it. And I've been looking forward to this whole conference for a few years actually and I have not been disappointed. I have to tell you from the from the very beginning I think so far. It's just been a terrific and energetic and dynamic exchange of ideas among people from all different fields. And I think that's exactly what we need. And I know that you all do realize that I come from a family and I'm speaking a primarily as as a parent and as a mother trying to successfully raised three daughters and a son and I always appreciate being able to participate in forms such as this one because it offers all of us an opportunity to talk about the kind of society that we're leaving our kids and a 2in it allows experts to focus on the issues that we know are affecting our children and I have Fears about what's going to happen to my kids just like you do and I also am convinced that it's the duty of each and everyone of us as an American citizen as a parent to be a part of finding the solutions to these problems and if they'll mention and of the people have a graciously noted for so many people in this room have been involved in this issue one way or the other for a lot longer than I have but eighteen years ago. I did become involved because I noticed what was going on with my children and what they were saying on television at cetera and I think it's very good that we're discussing this today their reaction. My kids reaction. Our children's reaction was mixed to what they what they saw and when I started speaking up about it the reaction to me was mixed some people cheered and some people jeered and one of my favorite lines, When I was referred to as which is for everyone who knows me just is not the way I am quote a high-collared prude trying to Lysol the world on quote. So some of it is outside with a little hard to take in. Some of the comments were obviously ridiculous. For example, I thought I stood there with four children and I could easily discount all the times that I was called a sexually repressed housewife, but I make sense. Okay. But you're going down memory lane here a little bit. I will share with you some of my my favorite one of my favorite lines which came from Frank Zappa who I know who is a creative artist. With whom I made peace before he died and went when the music issue first came out the issue of what do we do about lyrics that are so explicit. He was outraged as an artist and that was that was his right. He referred to quote the complete list of pmrc and it was the parents music Resource Center demands as an instruction manual for some Sinister kind of toilet training program to housebreak all composers and performers unquote. That's pretty good. I mean But I think I think we all understand that that is not what we're talking about here today. We don't we really don't want to do that. We want to respect all all performers and composers and artists, but at the same time we want to respect children and families in and our society and I think we clearly understand that we're not talking about censorship that what we're all talking about is sensitivity to children. And we're here because we're concerned about our society. We share an understanding that it's so important to have knowledge as parents and to be able to God and to supervise are kids so that they themselves can make informed choices. And again, let us all state and be reminded that it's not a political issue at it's a bipartisan issue. It's an issue for all Americans and all parents to be concerned a regardless of their political affiliation. And I think that we can all agree that the concern about the issue was growing around the country and has been for a number of years. We we we have groups like The National PTA the American Medical Association the American Psychological Association. We have the Center for Disease Control calling as the levels of violence now a public health issue and I think that that most people understand that there really is a c He is concerned about the levels of violence and pornography in in music and in movies and on television as it affects our kids, so we come together to talk about these mixed messages that are that are kids are receiving that our families are receiving through all the media and what we can do about it. And I think it's important to note to that. The power of this conference is cooperation that we've come together as if parents as the members of the media as Executives as Executives of advertising agencies members of advocacy groups the government to discuss a problem that is growing in concerning that more and more people are tuning into and it's not a battle of mutually exclusive interest. Not at all. In fact, it's it's it's our Interest come together when we really focus on The main point and that is our children. It's a conversation that respected entities can have together and one of the main phases how do we help kids make appropriate choices and I am the first to acknowledge and it's been acknowledged at the conference throughout the conference that messages in the entertainment media are in the media alone are not the only derogatory influence on our children. I think that we all acknowledge that we cannot rationally discuss the impact of the entertainment violence and sexual that kind of thing on our kids if we fail to examine first and foremost the world in which our kids are living and the modern context is obviously a powerful component and their lives and it's a powerful component of this problem. And I think we need a rapid response to kids distress in the real world. I will just cite a number of Statistics to talk a little bit about that that context children as an age group are the poorest people in this country in America with nearly one-in-five. That's about 15 million living every single day in poverty with all that that means one and two marriages will fail with the trauma to children often unrecognized and children themselves are the chief victims of the epidemic of violence with as many kids killed by guns Between 1979 and 1991 as United States soldiers were killed in Vietnam 50000. No children are the greatest risk of suicide and that ranks as the second leading cause of death for kids aged 15 to 24 the average that out. That's 14 children a day that take their lives. 1 million teenagers get pregnant we talked about teenage pregnancy and we talked about the sexuality that seems so open and to be pushed on them advertising in magazines to on the entertainment media, but perhaps what we also should talk about are the numbers of sexually transmitted diseases that are skyrocketing everyday and that are affecting kids and that if untreated can perhaps make a young woman infertile later on in her life when she plans a marriage and a family and is a very serious issues that are around the the early teen sex issue. Do we know that our social burdens are placing a heavy burden on our kids and they are often thrown into a world of adult problems with with very little support. I think that it's important that we talk and try to come to an understanding about how to create ways that we can preserve an important shared value in our nation, which is made up of people of diverse experiences. And that's part of what we're about in this conference as we talked about the shifting structure of the family and other social changes disrupting patterns. We also must talk about the ways that we can reassert that common good that common value through Community Action and individual action, so All of us have got to make up our minds that we will work together to safeguard the basic Foundation of our society. There's also a field of knowledge that many people are not aware of and it's called Child Development early childhood education. And we had we know an awful lot about how the brain works and about the development and maturation of children the most important thing. I think I can say is that children are not miniature adults. We met in this room know that but I think there are a lot of people out there who do not know that at all and it and it's reflected in the way they parent as well as in the entertainment that they allow their children to see that's a message that we need to work harder to get out and children are very vulnerable. First American families are undergoing all the profound changes that are depriving millions of children of the support structure that they once enjoyed and by that, I mean congregation school and family we talked about that that that's that's changing and second children are now bombarded with all of these messages some great and some also very explicit on a scale unlike anything that we've seen before. So to those people who say well it's just like what I had when I was growing up. No, it's not there's more of it and it's more graphic and it's coming at them in more ways. So Not long ago, we could rely family congregation School Community to help support with our children. But while those things have now undergone on the assault. We need to rebuild them at the same time. We need to understand they're not there for kids right now. So what can we do to help fill in the void? And I think the answer is to look at the mass media, which is what we're doing. The third parent is Reverend. Jesse Jackson said last year in the keynote speech. We have got to look at that. Otherwise, we're ignoring it ignoring the fact that a typical American child as has been stated will be 30 hours of Television a week in 20,000 real or simulated murders by the time they reach eighteen. This has some sort of an impact. You can't deny that and I've always said and I think that we're hearing that today that it's just one factor that nevertheless contributing. I believe to the breakdown of a society where Violence is not only tolerated but often glamorized and infrequently imitated by those who see it particularly the younger children now throughout history parents and Community leaders have tried to protect and shelter children from the challenges and the opportunities of the of the Adult World in the dangers that lie in the adult world and in modern in the modern media culture our children if we stop and think about it, I've really become the subject of aggressive marketing techniques within a subculture that purpose is to exploit them that television networks and stations openly brag about the young viewers that they can deliver to their advertisers. I don't think this is a fair fight and I think parents have got to mediate where they can but you're talking about people that are extremely intelligent who are paid to do this to use these techniques. They're aiming at a subculture at kids. A lot of folks a lot of adults don't even know about it. They're not even aware of it. And that again is while a description of the problem also a description of the solution. We must tell people we must educate people we must talk about it and we must have this kind of discourse indeed everywhere. We turn there seems to be a substantial amount of explicit sex and violence in the entertainment industry and I mean from music to television to movies to advertising to the internet and the technological Revolution that has created opportunities for violin and explicit messages to reach larger and younger audiences. Has done that apparently without very much regard to the sensibilities of children. And that again is one of the important points to make. And here is the reason that I remain concerned and have been concerned. I know from my formal training right here in Nashville. George Peabody where I got a masters in child psychology that kids react to different stimuli at different ages in different ways fact, so a 4 year old and an 8 year old do not see things the same way. And many recognize this many in the industry recognizes and has spoken to this very eloquently, but many in our society don't even recognize this at this point one way to make the point is to say for example, you can go to a store and you can buy a toy for a child and the packages are marked with the appropriate age range their puzzles for 2 to 4 year old puzzles for 8 to 10 year olds and then puzzles for actually a category called adult. We need similar guides for the new messages answering our homes without restriction. And right now we have a limited way of knowing which messages are appropriate for kids at which age And it's up to us to be able to make that decision, but we need a little help and guidance in making us delineations a kit of Ages of kids. And it's certainly true that technology also can enhance educational and cultural opportunities. I think all of us agree with that we the media now. At our Command absolutely offers breathtaking possibilities and we can bring into our home and entire world. We can bring it into our classrooms. We can open up worlds and teaching to those with disabilities to those who are remote who are isolated to two elderly people who are shut into the isolated to the rich and to the poor and our American culture that's in our entertainment industry is a product that we can be very proud of here at home and overseas. There is no question about that in a twinkling of an eye by electronic mail a student in Tennessee can speak with a student in Moscow and with the resources of the internet reach into a treasury of information about almost any imaginable subject and discover a community of teachers and other Learners sharing and exploring and discovering new ways to knowledge. This is fantastic and the The wave of the future and least in the vision of the future that I see this is this is very good and very promising and very exciting but despite the glories of these technical advances. We as adults must now question whether we fully understand the dangers lurking on that little screen that might take our children to the first online Bordello or teach them racial hatred. Or teach them how to make a bomb. These are the realities of the information age and consumer information is there for absolutely essential in helping parents to guide their children? We must resolve to educate children and parents and those who produce and Supply media about the effects of certain material and Technologies on children and grandchildren of certain ages and about the positive uses of the same Technologies. Now, I think we've come to the Crux of the problem. Who should decide about the content? Nobody ever wants to do we always get right up to their and then everybody goes away and I can understand that obviously not the government. We need to find a way of making Community feeling disrespected in a way that respects the First Amendment. And in regard to Children again, we're not talking about censorship but sensitive and that means exercising the art of citizenship individually and perhaps through coalition's if we need to do that and it means above all respecting the prerogative of families. Over the years I've become convinced that the increasingly graphic nature of the of the content and a lack of the ability to control access is the heart of the Dilemma. That's why people are getting so angry they feel like it's out of their control. It is out of our control to a certain extent and they want to be able to feel that they have it within their control and be able to make the choice freedom of expression is constitutionally based on the core principles of our democracy and self-government. I can refuse we can refuse to allow our children to Keely our younger ones to see a movie called Natural Born Killers and we can encourage them to see a movie called Schindler's List. Both show depravity evil violence, but in very different context while I think some movies would probably never be appropriate for children. I think some movies definitely are appropriate when the child is ready and Allen I told our younger children. Yes, you should see Schindler's List not yet, but will when you're a little bit older. Yes. No, you should never say Natural Born Killer. Okay, and that's exactly the kinds of choices and control that people feel is lacking in that they want and it also is the Crux of the matter of the content varies by context. And therefore you have to leave that into the in the hands of the individual American that is the American solution to this problem. I have also come to believe that perhaps one of the greatest tools any Parent adult or growing child themselves can have is information and information about as I've said Child Development information about the teen years information about outside influences, which are providing. Our cultures information is knowledge and knowledge is progress. We have parents need to know what's out there. We need to TuneIn if we feel like we are drowning in cultural pollution and we as adults need to take responsibility for that. We must own up to that responsibility is the culture that we want to proudly bequeath to the Next Generation. This one. Yes in many ways. It absolutely is that's the answer but can and should we change certain parts of it? Yes, and that's one reason we're having a discussion that we're having at this conference. America is a great country. It's a strong country and it's based on freedom. It's based on individuality. Strength and creativity and it's up to us to reject the vulgar and the degraded the violent so that our kids instead of being ashamed of us can be proud that we fought hard and fought hard for them. You know, it's tough being a parent today, but it's even tougher being a kid with parents. And if adults even without kids we need to stop look and listen, then we need to develop the will to act I am for freedom of speech including my own speech. As a mother I'm free to call it as I see it. I can say two in my family trash is trash violence is violence. The treating women as objects to be exploited humiliated raped murdered and forgotten is degrading beyond all moral measure. That degrades women, but if you think about it that degrades the society that permits it to flourish without protest as well, and I personally am sick and tired of it. As a mother of three daughters and a son I'm going to speak as loudly and as often as I can on the subject and I'm going to say to the producers of this cheap industrial ingredient. Stop it. Just stop it. It's simple. Just stop it. I asked him the words that were aimed by the secretary of the army to did Senator Joseph McCarthy. Have you no shame. But shaming alone is not the solution and we know that and so to the Shameless who have not responded over all these years who will not respond. I must say to all of those of us who are gathered here. We must find a way we must Find the Will and we must find an American solution to this problem by giving the families not the government and not the industry, but the family's the power to control what comes into our homes and it's about time. Thank you. Tipper Gore speaking at last month's family reunions for the family in the medium that conference was co-sponsored by the University of Minnesota's children Youth and Family Consortium. I was Rick Chef check who has done a lot about the issue of the media in the family. Rick writes a column about dads for the Saint Paul Pioneer Press. He also reviews music for the paper. It's covered radio and TV and probably most important. He too is a parent Rick do you think this is a big problem or are we kind of reliving the experience of the 50s when people freaked out over Elvis Presley shaking his hips around? Well, the social problems that Tipper Gore enumerated during her speech obviously are enormous problems for our society. And there's always going to be a debate about the causal link between violent and the sexually explicit images in the media and these kinds of problems. I have a tendency to lean more towards this kind of material being a symptom of the problems as opposed to a cause of the problems. But you know again that that's a debate that we can go around on for a long time. Basically. I don't have any objections to anything that Tipper Gore said except when she gets down to the end. Again, she does what she accuses everyone else are doing getting right up to the edge of saying what it is we need to do about it and then kind of ending with a chest beating a call to action but failing to explicitly say what that action on Abby. What should it be? What could it be? Well as she already pointed out it it must begin with the individual family unit kids need limits parents need to express to the children what those limits are in this family and you know with it with a certain amount of give-and-take and the parents are the boss. They have to know what their children are listening to the watching and the begin with Express approval and ultimately set some limits and say no this isn't going to be watched or listened to in this household, but beyond that I think this is this is where we all begin to disagree what happens after you get out of the family unit and the big problem is that we have a lot of a dysfunctional family units in this Green kids are getting any kind of Direction and the media will will clearly affect people in situations like that more than kids growing up in stable and Tack households where the parents are exercising parental control the way to Virgo ratification the way any responsible parent would do you think that the media Executives the producers of this material care about this problem? Do they see it as a problem at all? I'm a little concerned that they don't care that much about the problem. I think that they're in business for for rug making a profit for their shareholders as any other business in this country. Basically is they have a bottom line to a be concerned with they have a job security to be concerned with if they're not producing for the shareholders. Eventually, they're going to find themselves in another line of work, whatever their particular morals maybe unfortunately their track record isn't particularly impressive. I think that yeah, there's a lot of work to be done in Hollywood in the record industry and in terms of cleaning up the product and I would like to see some voluntary action that behalf and for Tipper Gore to stand up and say I have you people no shame. I'm not I'm not arguing with that. I think they probably got to hear that more often. We need to keep in mind that that this particular speech is probably at least as motivated by the the Democrats need to kind of get a handle on this issue. Rusted away from the Republicans for the upcoming election. Is it is anything else? I mean, it was partly this is to remind people to Tipper Gore was out there before Bob door was but that doesn't mean it's not a real problem. And that doesn't mean that that the producers of the explicit images in our media shouldn't be told that they that we're going to hold them responsible for what they're getting asked if a parent called called up from the Twin Cities called her one of the big shots in Hollywood. Would that make any difference to anybody would they have any impact whatsoever? Well, when I was a media critic, I tried not to indicate the people that a phone call or a letter was going to bring about the kind of change that they obviously wanted to see in the media on the other hand. I did find out that that an impressive number of phone calls in an impressive number of letters generally did get the attention of the media. Executive if they could always dismiss a few letters as you know, the expression of a crank but the bags and bags and bags of letters and jamming a phone line that that would generally get their attention. So it's it's unscientific but there is kind of a threshold Beyond which the media will get the message that that there's a Groundswell out there. Let me ask you this show from the other side of this equation as this issue is talked about more and more and presumably as pressure of one sort or another Bills. Should we be in the business of making sure that all the music that's heard the TV shows the movies and so on are all good for kids to the point where it really isn't much for an adult as an adult to look at. I mean clearly, this is a First Amendment issue which Tipper give lip service to and then And and then prompt on a little bit but I know we really can't be in that business. What we can be in is the parenting business. We can be in the in the business of looking out for our children's best interests at the at the local level at at the home level and and beyond that every citizen in this country has the right to say that I'm appalled by the images that the MTV broadcasts or the dates Bo broadcasts or that. Well, I was going to say ABC but we not to worry about them anymore does neon sign on the line with some comments and Tipper Gore's comments that better you go first place. I just wanted to come in on this now. She spoke of sensitivity to children are most of the people who produce entertainment like to think of themselves as artists, but if they are not some of them definitely are not but that same sensitivity should be applied to the audience and in incorporator include sensitivity the children. I just see no reason why not and of course we get the other argument about freedom of speech. There's a responsibility that goes with that too and that the whole thing I get my own opinion and I don't know if we're ever going to get around to Admitting it in facing doing something about it. Thanks for your comment. Go to our next caller Karen. Shows this week for the first time ever and I was just totally appalled at the content and those this particular day. Most of them were geared at the preteen and teenage girls 12 to 17. They were all very sexually explicit the girls describing in detail their relationships and number of and I'll be very proud of us the audience to whoop against here than and you know, sort of gave their approval to and what these girls don't think of their own. All they have to do is stay home and watch watch television and pick up all these supposedly wonderful ideas of how to fill their time and although I realized that it's the stations right to have these types of shows and obviously there's some sort of demand, you know, it's the same old problem as working mothers. You can't sit there and control your teenage kids and what they watch and I guess I just wish that there was a little bit more control from that into you recommend. Give us that that's a very real problem and you can't keep an eye on the kids all the time. Even if you wanted to know you can't I often feel however that the parents probably don't go quite as far as they can in terms of checking up on the kids making that extra call everyday just to see if Johnny is where Johnny said Johnny was going to be or calling the parent of the friend that Johnny said he was going to be with I don't think there's enough of that, you know kids will call it intrusive. They'll say you don't trust me but well Soviet, what about this v-chip that's supposed to have that that would allow people to block block out certain programs from coming into their home, right? Yeah, and I guess I I don't think that there's really an electronic answer to this to this question. I look at the v-chip is something that that I suppose could be useful. I mean it's it's sort of like how a breakfast cereal can be considered part of a nutritious breakfast, but it isn't the nutritious breakfast itself. You can't you can't get away from the fact that the the parents need to know what it is. The kids are watching in the need to exercise more Hands-On control rather. I mean if if you install a v-chip and you program your television to block out the things that you think we're going to be objectionable and otherwise don't involve yourself in in your children's response to the media or their access to the media. They're going to find a way to see the things that you don't want them to see. I I just don't think that the v-chip is the Magic Bullet that we're looking for here do rating systems work there is of course the movie rating system and there's at least a kind of token rating system on on the records. Well, I think they do in terms of giving parents some extra information about what kind of material Be included on the record or in the movie. And in fact, I'd be in favor of even more information being available. I think movie reviews these days do a better job of summarizing the kind of content that that's going to be in the film. I remember being really surprised a few years ago that my nephew's at that time were probably 13 14 15 years old had seen all the movies that were out there that that in some cases. I thought we're probably going to be a little too raunchy for me, but they and all of their friends just to sort of took it for granted that you know know what would you have an R-rated movie was not necessarily intended to keep them out that it was the kind of thing that all kids their age were watching and I don't know an R rating to me said that you know, 16 17 year old kid probably shouldn't be watching this material. I think there's enough in for a while. Now, there's not there's not enough information, but there is information out there that parents should be 2 to help their kids make decisions about what to watch in at the kids can intelligently use that information to use that to make that decision. Then the parents can make it for them to call Iran. I'm talking about movie ratings cuz that's what I want to do a dress. What if the parents don't have the common sense to use what they know. I'm I was recently at one of the R-rated action film. There was a seven-year-old sitting next to see R-rated should be changed to allow no one under the age of 10 in there because that way if the parent is stupid enough to bring the child, we wouldn't have to pay the societal price later. That's kind of the Crux of the argument. I mean, that's an appalling situation that you just described that 7 year olds shouldn't be at that movie and I fought the parents for bringing the child there. But what as a society are we really willing to do I mean or we going to put an armed guard at the movie and Prince and the check IDs and and flatly refused to allow a parent bring a seven-year-old in there. I'm not saying that we should absolutely throw out that idea is preposterous, but I'm not sure as a society. That's the direction that we're going to go in on this on this issue. People are going to say, you know time was the TV networks were full. For example of Western Baby Boomers grow up watching Western after Western after Western half hour after half of people dropping like flies and we had the comic scare the 50s to I mean that every comic book you by now has this Comics code would certify as it has been passed by a board to to be a lot too violent for the six. Seven eight. Nine year old kid that might be buying it. And that was I think Institute in the late fifties too well because people were concerned about increasingly violent images in the media, but we still have the Boston Strangler and we still had Charles Whitman and we still had the social Misfits who had a bad home life. We went out and did horrible things. We may have more than now. I'm not sure that that's the case, you know about per capita. But yeah that I mean violent images in one way or another have always been with us. I agree with your record. There are more of them than there used to be. But whether there's you know, is it more graphic is that the problem that it's not just watching it for example in the western used to see the somebody shoot a gun the guide fall over that near the end of it you might have or unrealistic attitude about what happens when people die, but it was it just kind of happened went on now you get the full treatment with blood spurting and everything and it is more graphic and I think I'm in one extent. That's pretty good pretty good because there shouldn't be any Illusions about what happens when you use a powerful weapon on someone else. Unfortunately, I think we do become desensitized to it after a while. I mean the first time you see the Wild Bunch for instance in these slow motion blood spurting. So you think I'm a boy that's that's really what it's like when somebody get shot. Well it since then, you know, we've all seen it so many times that I think that it's pretty hard for a movie director to really impress us with a graphic violence can be anymore. Bob's on the line from Haughton High Let's look at it in a little different way. We need to love and respect ourselves and if we don't love and respect ourselves, how can we teach our children or how can we expect snow? Can we expect love and respect from anybody else? We need to do it ourselves. Okay. Thanks for your comment. Susan your next. And the kids so sat still for that. as adults shower, and I turned it off and Yes, it is in our family did the same thing. We've had actually tried that twice. You've had the television off for a week on two different occasions. And I I would agree with you that it's probably the adults that end up missing it more than the kids. Do the kids will do the whining initiated that does not get in to see you at the show or that show, but after a couple of days they almost forget about it. I mean, my kids are still fairly young. My daughter is 10 my son sex, but both times that we've had the television off they've managed to get along just fine without it. And it's it it sounds like something that that would be terrifically hard to do but I think most families who have done it will tell you that it's not that difficult, but she wouldn't you have to shut the TV off shut the radio off so know that awful music gets in there, but I'll throw the stereo system out throw the magazines in the newspapers are cuz I got all these ads in there. Throw the computer out cuz Lord knows there's plenty of weird stuff out there. I mean you have to cut yourself off from the world. Well and ultimately I don't think that that's what we want to do. I think that by turning the TV off for a week, what you do is you prove to yourself that you can get along with a lot less media, then you thought you could but I don't think that it's a real good idea to ask your children to grow up without a certain media-savvy that you that you gather from from television from movies from the from the right. I mean that that's a big part of our lives for better for worse. And I think it's it's really a more intelligent approach to to help your kids figure out how to deal with it rather than to treated as this invasive object that you either need to allowed to conquer you are to be fighting off for the rest of your life. Mark your thoughts place Yes, I wonder if your guests can expand on one of his earlier comments about the false linkage between media violence and and social violence. I'm a social worker in Hennepin County. And while I agree that we we've got to do something to stop the coarse and vulgar and messages at Hollywood in the media send out if we place Oliver emphasis on that campaign. And that seems to be the direction we're going right now that we're going to end up missing some of the very real stuff that's happening with family dysfunction and Family Violence. I'm working with an 8 year old boy who stabbed his little sister. It turns out that his mom is a crack addict and one of her boyfriends had sodomized a little boy. I've got another case where a little boy was acting out in school had seen his father stabbed the mother in the boyfriend the night before the end of stuff goes on I could go on and on and on. George Foster talking about family dysfunction Family Violence as a major cause of death of our social violence problem. We're really going to be missing the boat. I wonder if your guess could you expand on that? Well, you said it better than I could but I think just giving you examples that you brought up. It's pretty hard to blame that on MTV we're clearly talking about the level of pathology that that is developed in our society of four reasons very much removed from the media. I can't to I can't begin to suggest, you know in a couple of minutes what we're going to do to attack that problem. But I do think that you're absolutely right that to a given what limited resources we seem to have to do anything about social problems in this country would be far better off placing the majority of our efforts on the on dealing directly with family problems as opposed to hoping we can cut up a smooth it over by softening the images that the families are getting on the on the air with Morgan your thoughts. Please go or while she's she's not here. I'll forward it to her. And what would you ask Tipper Gore if she was actually here murders in a race with stop and I'd like to know what caused all these problems before rap music. I don't think that she thinks that you're not going to defend her on that point. Anyway, I don't think that she thinks that the murders and rapes would stop if you if you did something to censor rock or rap music. I think that she's legitimately convinced that there are impressionable people out there who are getting much guidance at home who are influenced by this kind of music and I don't think it's it's really my place to argue on what level that influence comes into effect here. But nothing else to do things that kind of repeated of violence and so on so forth in the music and doesn't create a climate in which people operate part of the cultural climate so that it is it does ultimately become easier for people to become violent themselves or to act as sexually irresponsible and you could have you knock down all the societal. barriers that might otherwise exist I think that the climate that we live in now is notably less. Civil than it was when I was a child and to what extent the media has undermined the civility of a of a previous generation. I think they should be held accountable to that. But again we get back to what does accountability mean and who is going to enforce some sort of penalty or some sort of rolling back of the images. We got time for at least one more call her Holly. Yes, I would like to suggest an attitude that the parents might have I learned this by being a parent and bacon take you for many years. I didn't know it very well. I've been doing trying to do this for a long time. And that is at the attitude of the parent who has had conversations with the children who talks to them and let them ask questions instead of saying this is what you have to do and this is what you're not allowed to do that sort of thing. Mickey Mouse making demands of the children doesn't get very far and sometimes another person younger first, but a person my grandson of mine said to me one time, you know, I'm a small person but I am a person and I think it's a good thing to remember this and to have the habit of talking to your children and discussing things with them so much that's a terrific point value your children as individuals and treat them with respect and they'll begin treating other people with respect. I mean, you really can't go wrong for that Kevin Dubrow appreciate your coming by right for the Saint Paul Pioneer Press sick horse early, or he heard from Tipper Gore speech that she gave down in Nashville last month.