PRI Public Radio International before 11 and on Deck. Next is Marc's ad a click the host of midday talking outdoor baseball. It is a dreary day around the region the Twin Cities forecast. Mostly cloudy with a good chance of more showers a high in the lower to Middle 60s. The rain chance this afternoon is 50% tonight in the Twin Cities. Mostly cloudy with a 30% chance of an evening shower. It would become partly cloudy later on alone near 45° Sunday partly cloudy temperatures around 70 degrees.I'm right Magnuson Monday on Morning Edition on the FM news station US ambassador to Japan Walter Mondale on the effort to avert a trade war with Japan Morning Edition begins at 5 a.m. On the FM news station k n o w FM 91.1 you're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. 59 degrees with cloudy skies at the FM news station know FM. 91.1 Minneapolis-Saint Paul. It's 11. From the FM news station. This is midday. Good morning. It's Saturday, June 10th and marks. It act like in the Twin Cities. Today at midday. We're going to be talking about outdoor baseball specifically the northern Liga League many believe is bringing back the spirit of baseball in the Upper Midwest joining me will be author Stephen fat SATs. He's written an interesting book profiling have a northern League got started and how it has so far met with considerable success. How is the northern League different from the major leagues how have Northern League owners and players managed to give get give back the game of baseball to fans in the midst of the major leagues bottom line business crises will the northern League last outdoor baseball the miners versus the majors today on mid day after the news. It's a minute now past 11 from national public radio news in Washington. I'm Laura knoy Captain Scott O'Grady today described his ordeal and Bosnian Serb territory at a news conference in Italy that serve shot down O'Grady's plane last week. He survived for six days on rainwater in Sex and grass O'Grady told reporters the first it was the worst with Serbian soldiers all around him. He was walking around me and the fact that it wasn't so much that they're walking around me because I had somebody walking around me every day was the day I was shooting so that they were shooting the rifles and to me to me. It was a they weren't they weren't to shooting a bunny rabbits bunny rabbits out there called on Congress to enact tougher laws against Teenage drinking and driving in his weekly radio address. The president said Zero Tolerance should be the law of the land and Paris Richard Harris has the story. Drunk driving is to find in most States as a blood alcohol content of 1% 24 states have a much tougher standard for people under 21 years old .0 2% that's equivalent to one. Beer wine cooler or shot of alcohol in his weekly radio address. President Clinton said Congress should make that stricter standard a federal law after all if it's illegal for people under 21 to drink it all it should certainly be illegal for them to drink and drive. That's a no-brainer drinking and driving deaths have dropped sharply in the past decade. But Mr. Clinton said even so 2200 Americans were killed by teenage drunk drivers last year and that Carnage is still unacceptable. This is Richard Harris in Washington Secretary of State Warren. Christopher has made some progress in the stalled israeli-syrian. Peace talks in Damascus today. Christopher said that Israel has agreed to give up the disputed galon height and the military officials will meet in Washington later this month to discuss the details and uranium reports. Weeks of patient behind the scenes negotiating agreements at Secretary of State Christopher confirms the determination of both parties to reaching Our Lady Peace progress will not be easy on this track. He added it can be made when both sides of their minds to it. The initial series of meetings to be held in Washington between Israeli in Syrian Chiefs of Staff will be followed by a two-week break General Daniel crisp participate in the talks on a possible Israeli withdrawal from the Golan Heights 182. Secretary Christopher told the United press agency that the issue of sharing satellite intelligence would also be discussed for National Public Radio. I'm Edward Uranian in Beirut American and North Korean negotiator say they've reached a tentative agreement on nuclear issues few details have emerged from their talks held in Malaysia the discussions nearly broke down last week over North Korea's refusal to accept nuclear reactors made in South Korea. This is NPR. 4 minutes past 11. Good morning. I'm Chris Roberts from the FM news station another player from the Minnesota Twins golden age of the 1960s is dead former shortstop, Zoe over science was found dead at is Bloomington home yesterday for science was the American League Most Valuable Player in 1965 when the twins first went to the World Series and autopsy has been scheduled for today independent Republicans are meeting today to elect a state party chair incumbent Chris. George Lucas is seeking re-election. He faces a challenge from Hamline University law professor, Doug, macfarland and retired minnegasco executive Jean Nestle McFarlane says the IRS shouldn't be resting on their Laurels because the victory scored in 94 or no history the election for us, but you know, if we call that a good election will always be a minority party in the state Doug McFarland a citizen Jury has rejected the idea of charging motorist fee to discourage Rush Hour. Driving in the Twin Cities majority of the 24-member jury concluded that charging a rush hour fee is not the way to handle growing traffic congestion in the metro area Democratic senators Paul wellstone of Minnesota and Carl Levin of Michigan have one agreement for the Senate to consider before the end of July bills regulating lobbying and batting gifts from lobbyists to lawmakers while Stone In Love and had threatened to offer the bills as amendments to a complex telecommunications measure measure now under consideration by the Senate sponsors of the Telecommunications Bill fear, that would jeopardize its chances the two senators back off their threat after Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole agreed Friday to bring up the lobbying measures before Congress leaves town for its August recess or on July 28th clearing in the far north western portions of the region this afternoon generally cloudy or mostly cloudy elsewhere occasional showers around st. Cloud High's near 60° in Saint Cloud and Duluth to the middle. Days Inn Thief River Falls that's news on Chris Roberts 6 minutes past 11, you're listening to mid-day on the FM news station. Good morning at marks a technique in the Twin Cities today or maybe a conversation about the northern League the northern lake was formed a couple of years ago by now many of you know, at least some of the names of the six teams that Saint Paul Saints the duluth-superior Duke's the Thunder Bay whiskey Jax. Well today is your chance to find out everything you've always wanted to know about the northern league, but were afraid to ask with me in the studio. This morning is Stefan fatsis is rin a book called wild and outside. How about Renegade? Minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland. Thanks for being here this morning. Good morning game last night here in the Midwest little wet foot the good times on the left lot of fans stuck around to the end as a Saint Paul Saints fans are wants to do and they were rewarded they won last night did win that was an exciting game too. If you would like to talk baseball this morning to 276 thousand is a number to call to join the conversation if you're listening in the Twin Cities that students 6000 if you're tuned in the metro area this morning anywhere else, you can hear the broadcast. You can call toll free to join our conversation about outdoor baseball the toll free numbers one 800-242-2828. Once again, toll-free 1-800 to 4 to 2828 wild an outside hauler Renegade minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland. How did you end up writing this book? What led you to love to explore the northern lake and end up by actually publishing whole book about know what the time I got interested in Northern league right around the time when Ali was put together in the summer of 1993. I was working as a business writer and was doing a series of articles about the business of baseball stuff about antitrust law and labor negotiations and sort of the key issues that were dragging baseball down before the strike. This is a year before the strike and I stumbled across this league that someone mentioned to me was trying to do something totally different than baseball. I sort of followed the fall of the Roman and ended up in St. Paul on opening night in 1993 and This is phenomenal life to do something more than than just a newspaper story with it. Tell us about the history of it. How did the league get started who put it together and why the sound of the week is it in Miles wolf Baseball fans. May better know as the former owner of the Durham Bulls in North Carolina the Bulls of course became famous because of the Kevin Costner movie Bull Durham miles have been in baseball for 20 plus years on various minor league teams with the one thing that he had never done was broke and he wanted to break away from the system. He was tired of the politics of the game tired of the bureaucracy tired of negotiating with these Major League the owners and their and they're Toadies and he wanted to return baseball to the wait was in the early part of the century, which was independent of Major League control get their own players put your own teams together run them like independent businesses, and it was a dream of his and he found a great place to do in the Upper Midwest. Spirit of baseball in America's Heartland were talking about baseball outdoor baseball indoor baseball minors Majors you you decide to 276 thousand is a number to call if you're listening in the Twin Cities one. 800-242-2828 is the toll free number. We have a plenty of room open on a Lyons right now. If you want to get in on the conversation was Stephen do minor league teams. We've heard a lot about this in this part of the country. Yeah Union in the Upper Midwest the northern League getting a lot of press last night the opening home opener for the Saint Paul Saints. All the TV stations are out doing live shots. They really attracted quite a bit of attention other league similar to the northern league in other parts of the country. It's starting to grow and it's really because of the northern League When the Northern Lee got started it was one of two independent leagues that began in the summer of 93 last year. There were five of these independent leagues two of them failed and they were both in this region. But this year there are going to be 11 such leagues and it's partly because of what the The league has done its put independent baseball in the map. It's made people believe that this is a viable business and sporting phenomenon allow these leaves I'll get started because people think that is easy to run baseball you can make money throw a few teams on the field and people will just come but it's really hard work. And and the thing about the North Lincoln impressed me the most last summer and hanging around with mic back in Miles wolf in the other people in the league. What's the dedication that goes into it? The the meticulous planning though? If you go to Midway Stadium, you think that it's been borderline Anarchy, but the reality is the behind-the-scenes and that's what I tried to get out of the book that behind the scenes baseball's hard work. And if you want to sell something particular in a market like Saint Paul and Minneapolis where there's a bunch of competition from the twins that work hard and know what you're giving the fans. That's what I was really aiming to find out last year and they really work to give something to the fans other than just presenting a game. Baseball I look at what goes on out at the Saints game. It is crazy. And but that's the that's the only way to make fans come back over the problem with the major leagues. They don't give fans anything. They give fans baseball and if you want to watch the best baseball in the world. Yeah, go to Major League game. If you want to be entertained and feel like you're part of something part of a community, then you're probably going to go to a minor league game and I think that the Saints and the northern Lee take it one step further last summer. What I noticed was and I wrote about some of these things in the book is that the end of the season the saint that didn't do very well. They had some problems off the field the fans kept coming and they kept coming in as a season 1 on down the thing that impressed me the most about the front office was they all got together and I sat down and I said, what can we give back to the fans for these last couple of games? What kinds of things can we do for them? Whether it's giving away whatever leftover souvenirs they had in the Saints did that in the last couple games of the year to planning a lot of fun vectobac? Tivities from fireworks to weird stuff on the field as last week Major League owners were in the Twin Cities are actually meeting talking about what they can do to survive interest in in the major leagues attendance down at least apparently 25% much more than that in some markets. I also hear that while the minor league sort of offer an alternative to Major League Baseball their success in many ways is tied to the success of Major League Baseball is that the case it it's the casein and it's not it's the case because the miners get most of their operating Source from the major. The major is basically fund minor league clubs their Farm clubs, they pay for player salaries. They pay a good chunk of travel uniforms equipment. It's an expensive proposition the major spend about eight million dollars per team per year on scouting and development operating a farm system in the independent leagues. Everything is paid for on their own the teams are over. 4 for all Financial requirements but there is that link between the miners in the majors. And that's one of the real problems in the game. That's why Minor League Baseball I think is going to really change over the next few years Majors want to cut a want to save money one place they're going to start to do it is in the minor leagues and the independent leagues are sort of going to I think gradually assumed some of the responsibilities for finding and developing talents that the that the farm systems currently currently do the st. Paul Saints under Mike Vick have just been extraordinary popular around the Twin Cities area. And in fact, you were mentioning to me on the way down to the studio walking down the hall that every time you're doing an interview about your book while now outside radio stations are TV stations that are tracking Mike Veeck down to get him to talk a little bit about what he thinks about the the northern league. In fact, we're going to talk to Mike in a few minutes as well. Some of the other teams the other five teams in the northern League, they're not nearly as popular as the Saints are they Are markets if they are I think in in a different way, they may not draws many people but the markets aren't as large with the exception of one in Winnipeg where they last season Drew more than 5000 fans and night but in their own way, they they do have the same ol or I don't think the ballparks are quite as much fun. It's not quite the total wacky entertainment package that Midway stadium is put in their own ways. The fans in these cities have really attached themselves to these clubs in a way that fans in in other minor league towns don't I really believe in and this is what I saw in Sioux City, Iowa to Sioux Falls South Dakota in Duluth where the team was terrible last year and in Thunder Bay the other city in the league fans have adopted these clubs as their own doesn't happen in the minors because I don't think fans have this proprietary feeling about them. They feel that the team belongs to the Yankees or the twins are the Angels there. Isn't that the sense that hey Our players they belong to us and do or die will stick with him. And the other thing about the minor league baseball players get called up and get sent down constantly in the northern League fans have been able to develop attachments to players who have stuck around for two and now three years and if you're listening and Thunder Bay or Duluth or Fargo-Moorhead or Sioux Falls South Dakota and you'd like to talk about your Northern League, you can call us at 227-6000. Well, I guess no a need to be in the Twin Cities use that number the toll free number for you folks who are in Greater Minnesota and out of Minnesota is one 800-242-2828 toll-free. Once again one 800-242-2828. If you're in the Twin Cities and you want to talk about baseball this morning, you can call 227-6002 number in the metro area. Once again to 276 thousand. We have a great deal of lion room open in the lines right now with me. This morning is Steven fat Stefan fatsis who's written a book Wild and outside. Renegade minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland. Let's go to marry who's in st. Paul. Good morning. Hello, Mary. I don't think we have your Mary. Yes, we do. Go ahead. Sorry about that. I have been going for it was fun. I'm from New York. I grew up with the Dodgers the Giants and the Yankees and it was fun as a kids to go to the Rays game. I win I always in this came here when we first got out of school and 63 and I enjoyed it. As soon as I put it indoors fun things to go out of it and I stopped by and then I stopped going and now I'm back I said 11 hours. Four tickets for the Saint Paul Saints this year because I want to see them I will enjoy what's happening in the stadium. And I find that they're fairly well-matched team. So they play respectable bull. It's not at the super professional level, but it's fun. And I think that's the case is doing what am I doing that? It really is funny. I think I think you're absolutely right Marion and I'll tell a little story with it that convinced me last summer that the Saints knew what they were that the Saints have fans first in their mind of her. It was a it was a it was a game against Sioux Falls. It was a torrential rain it rained all day. They got the game going and started the poor and they wanted to get the game in and Mike vet rolled up his pants. He was wearing his high top sneakers put on a poncho and he and the rest of the Saints staff were out in the Outfield squeegeeing water off the field digging tree. She's under the under the The Outfield fence to get the water off a fuel they wanted to play and they wanted to play it so that they could reward the fence cuz the family, they had stuck around for 3 hours in a downpour and at that moment. I realized that they this is different. There's a lot of care going into this. That's the record of the people in the stands. Okay, Mary. Thanks for calling Dave's in Duluth. Go ahead. You're on with Stefan fatsis. Hello, Dave, possibly combining Buy in the legs or what's what's the what's going on as far as the amount of teams and expanding and that's a good question really has wanted to expand since last year. They want to get up to eight teams. And I think it's going to happen after the season. I think in 1996 are going to see an 18 League possibly split into 214 divisions either north and south or east and west but I don't think Brainerd in Hibbing or the kinds of cities of the northern Lee can move into cities have to be large. They have to have a substantial population-based. I think it around a hundred thousand is what the North and the uses of cut off but I think you might be looking for cities like Fargo-Moorhead Madison, Wisconsin Lincoln, Nebraska St. Cloud, I believe is still in the running they were talking about the about expand. There earlier earlier this year to six months what the northern lake plans are but definitely count on expansion for next year. What is a northern northern League team budget look like that. How much do they need to Chipotle in and how much are they paying players and in general has a breakdown Major League Baseball and in the one thing that the northern lake has of the major want are exactly two things at the salary cap of $76,000 per team per season. And the other thing is revenue-sharing the northern League this year actually has adopted a plan where the three bigger markets Winnipeg Saint Paul and Sioux City will pay a larger percentage of the League's operating budget operating expenses in the three smaller markets are the budgets $10 to season 2. Well over $1000000 in the case of the Saints player make an average player in the northern salary range from 700 bucks a month for the rookies to anywhere. The last year the highest paid guy in the league was $2,500 a month. But this year the northern League added a changing their policy. They were allowing teens to pay one player up to $5,000 a month, but they only count two thousand of that against the salary cap. And that's in an effort to get some more veteran named players in the league and they succeeded in doing that this year. So we're talking about a different lifestyle than somebody who might be a playing for the twins or oh yeah different team. How did you spend a lot of time with the players be interesting in May will talk to him about this little more as a program continues on but engine on that kind of money. They must really love the game with most of the players either believe that they still can make it in baseball and get back on track to get up to the majors or they just play for the love of it. I got to remember most of the players in the northern League are in the early to mid-twenties. This is a way not to have a job. I spent time with a lot of these guys on the road. I went go-kart racing with a couple of the players I hung out with him after the game. When drinking and then then then just a feeling that they just want to keep playing baseball and I'll do it as long as they can in the case of some of the ex-major Leaguers in the league of like Leon Durham like Pedro Guerrero who were in The League last year. They want to keep playing. I was in The Dugout with Pedro Guerrero, and he said to me I'm the only guy who who pays to play in professional baseball cuz he would fly to the other cities. He played in Sioux Falls. He would drivers Mercedes if it was a shorter drive, but he didn't say he was just there to keep playing to get some coaching experience and I'll be around For the Love of the Game Stefan fatsis is here this morning with me. He's the author of a book about the northern League called wild it outside were talking about baseball. You can join the conversation at 2276 thousand if you're listening in the Twin Cities anywhere else, you can hear the broadcast. You can feel free to call toll-free to ask a question or a Dior a comment at the one 800-242-2828. We have David in Fargo. Go ahead. Oh, hi. I'm very excited to be listening to the program this morning. And are you aware of the efforts in Fargo to get a background process? There's a gentleman from the Twin Cities. I guess you don't mind if a gene Allen and he's in the process of getting trying to get the TM off the ground here and I'm personally very excited about this. I was a member of the Fargo-Moorhead Twins and not whole game when I was a kid and I still have those button. So, you know, it's funny. It's it's exciting and I guess I'm hoping they exist gets off the ground here. I'm hoping they use that same name FM twins is a great legacy there at Legacy there a Rodger Maris was going to really got his start here with AFM Twins, and it's really exciting. It's you know, it was it's a good baseball in I'm really hoping they can get this off the ground here. That's the kind of enthusiasm that's made the league successful in the in in the cities like Sioux City, Iowa where they didn't have a team didn't have a stadium and they put the city fathers got a $4000000 Stadium built in no time because they wanted the game. I think Fargo would be a good market and I think the northern League thinks it would Fargo was on the A-list initially when the lady was put together. I understand there were some political problems up there in the team did not make the first cut the other original cut but it sounds like you're on on the road there to getting a team. I think we should be called the 61 hours after Marisa 61 home runs the communities like Fargo-Moorhead now Cutthroat competing with the other communities that are trying to land these teams. Is it sort of a microcosm of what we've seen and what probably has led to some of the disinterested Major League Baseball. I don't think so. I don't think it's cut-throat in that way. I think that there's more concerning these towns of they're going to spend a lot of money on something. That they're not a hundred percent sure is going to be successful. There was a lot of worry in these towns initially that hey what if it doesn't succeed in the people in Sioux City put themselves on the line. I heard some great stories from those from the mayor and one of the city council members down there that I that I relate in the book about how they pushed through the four million dollars that they wanted that they needed to build a new ballpark and it was their tenacity in the risk that they took that putting their there. They're their reputations on the line to get baseball there, but it worked and whether it works elsewhere and that's up to the cities to the side, but it's proven to be something that the fans have been receptive to another town Sol Republic problems with Major League Baseball. What do what do you think the lasting power is going to be at this Northern League after Baseball Major League Baseball sort of gets his house back in order. Finally. I think those were there is room in Baseball for leagues like the northern League. There's got to be bumps along the road and one of the one of the the significant things that happened last summer was that as the strike became apparent and of the Major Leaguers walked off on a couple of the teams in the northern League you found some dissension. There was a lot of the said there was other than episode that I talked about in the book where the Duluth team in the Saint Paul team almost didn't play a game cuz the players didn't want to play on an off-day, but I think that had a lot to do with them reading about the strike. Just thinking in there Monday when I'm making any money here at the clubs are making a lot of money. So there's going to be bumps along the road but I think as the majors continue to cut back there's going to be not only need four leagues like the northern league, but there's going to be others going to be continued demand in the cities and from Minneapolis. Good morning. When did the pitcher not have to get it to that? When does that start that started in the American League? I think in 1974, they adopted the designated hitter rule most minor leagues now use a designated hitter in the northern League. It is one of them. Thank you. And how could I get a Saints schedule? You can call it the Saints front office and give them a call there listed in the phone book. Did you have any more questions? I said light one players paid seven hundred a month. How do they do they get their food and lodging and everything on the road or what is there lodging in? They get a per diem for food on the road but a big one but they got a little bit of money whenever they're traveling on the road yet by their own meals. What about during the winter when they're not playing when they're playing they got to go home and find a job. Thank you very much. Hello, Dave. Hello. Yeah, go ahead your own minds about this. First of all, I'm from New York. And so I'm not old enough to have actually seen the Giants or the Dodgers when they were in New York, but maze we certainly what am i m yours when I grew up in that sense. I am spoiled. I have to say that that part of this I think it has to do with the fact that I certainly the success of the saint is the fact that the Builder that Mike vac is is from a baseball knitted family has had it probably ingrained in him. And in many ways that we don't even know about it all of his life and has an enthusiasm and an n and Imagination that really really cuz has allowed him to to build the Saints into something craps bigger than they would ordinarily be. The other thing is that the people who own the twins was supposed to be particular frankly is not a baseball man. And you know, he's a financier. He's he's a businessman. But I don't think that he brings the passion for better for worse. If someone like mr. Finley or mr. Steinbrenner might bring to a ball team and I notice it as soon as I got off the plane back in nineteen seventy-five. Come here. I notice a kind of you know, what New York has a very, you know it emotional and and an animated that just doesn't exist here. And when I first walked in the Metrodome, you know, if people weren't cheering clicker home team, I mean, it was very very disturbing, you know, I would get up and I'll let you know. I may get up during a play and you know, if you would look at me like I was from the next galaxy over and I think that the mr. Vac has brought out some of the emotion that historically been tied to you know baseball in in great on great teams major league teams and brought some of that down and frankly is also brought in some of the old barnstorming Set that used to exist in baseball. I mean the the things that he's doing almost remind me of of what's a lot of the teams in the black leagues were doing when they weren't allowed to play when they were, you know, they would Barnstorm across the South or or whatever environment. They were in and they had a lot of other entertainments besides the game on the field is correct cuz that's cuz there's no doubt about it. I'm in a lot of the credit for the same success most of the credit for the same success in my mind goes to Mike. He is one of the most imaginative people in the game of baseball at any level Major League Baseball needs and my crack or needs Mike Beck literally, but I think that it's more than that. I think that Mike Beck isn't running the the teams in the other cities, but baseball people are in most of them in in Sioux Falls in Duluth in Winnipeg you've got people on the field and in the front office who know the game they've been around for 15-20 years know what makes Minor League Baseball work. It's it's more than just players and I think I think you're absolutely right that the Saints success has a lot to do with the entertainment value that Mike has brought to it. But what's wrong with that? That's that's great. That's why the Saints are winning and that's what baseball needs quite an introduction for Mike Vick who is now on the line with us the owner of the Saint Paul Saints last night the Saints won their home opener beating the duluth-superior Dukes 423 with run in the bottom of the ninth. Good morning, Mike. Cleaning up after the big home opener are you today? What are you expecting for your 1995 season? And how did things work out for you last year all at all really deserved and the second thing is to say that I he's very flattered by the comparison to the to the old barnstorming days of the Negro League that being said that in in a word while I'm kind of humble by I buy Stefan's description. What we need to do is to remain passionate to eversharp our approach to things we have now two years of of very fortunate success to compare and so we're going to promote harder we're going to work hard and we're going to perfect our game and an n and Baton Rouge makes you better because you are aware of how easy it is. Not too far how delicate the balance is if you will. I would look for more silliness than ever before this year. But also more of a nod to the past the time we have tributes to three tributes to the Negro League with Sam jethroe rain with storm Florence Kobe and Shaq O'Neal so last night for example of who operated operated the original st. Paul baseball club and moved it down to Chicago to become the White Sox. There's a wonderful mix I think and that's what we're trying to achieve. Well, certainly some people listening Mike Veeck were watching last night, but for the majority of the audience, they weren't there. What the in the line of silliness and theatrics. Did you have a out in full force for last night's home opener there where we have an old gag. I've been working on for years. We have a beach over the home Dugout right in the stands were we have Fallout 4 for beach chairs and umbrellas and people can recline with Pink Flamingos. I wanted to turn the entire center-field bleachers in Comiskey Park into a beach. We have another radio station in addition to our Flagship station. We have another radio station in the talk show host doing a two-hour show every night from from over the left-field wall. We have a new entry in the in the laser business which were trying to figure a way to build into our regular. A regular routine without zapping anyone so they the additions this year. I think are more plentiful than ever before success of the Saints and the end of the Northern Lincoln. Jen was really about baseball. And how much of it is about sort of the selling us and when that gets old what's going to carry the leak in the short-term the ceiling this Send with the Ascension of Michael Mims to the Philadelphia Phillies and with the success. He's had Mims pitched for the same sin in 1993. Suddenly. There has been a great recognition of these The credibility of his leg. There are not 13 independent leagues across the country. But the the northern League was the was the first so what you hope is that when people say well yesterday made me laugh, but I really love what's on the field you've achieved the Apex of of what could possibly be a success. It's good double A baseball and when Trader Joe near as makes the starting lineup for the New York Mets and stays there for eight or ten years the way I believe he will. I just think that that comes along that the caliber baseball in the recognition comes along just when people might say, okay, I've had enough of the cake now give me a lot more of the substance of things a lot of people at the major leagues right now. With that attitude in mind obviously, they're having serious problems with attendance. What do you folks going to get from then then during your season now in the northern lake that can I help you with nothing more deadly than the than the the failure so far of the major leagues to excite the people coming to games. And the reason I do I know that some of my kin Patriots believe that short-term Belle dress and people and that may or may not be true. I don't think in our in our case it will it will be very true because we are driven by media coverage and in and certainly in St. Paul the moment that that the Vikings open training camp if the twins aren't are not doing well and are not catching people's imagination. All the coverage in the Twin Cities will turn to football and that's why it's not advantageous for us. We won't get regular beat writers assigned and if baseball Top of mine. Then where is going to be hurt in the end they in car in the shop in the short-term. Do got a little bit of Sam disaffection. They're looking for alternative in the long run baseball baseball and fans want to love the game and if they're disgusted on one level, there's the threat that always existed as going to trickle down to other levels going on out there today. We're doing a lot of squeegee work cuz it's still raining, but we figure the guys are parked and we're going to do a fireworks show the likes of which they haven't seen hi Hearing in a good year. And then of course tomorrow we have our first day game and then a concert following so we just kind of mop up all the rain and get ready for 4 inch heels now instead of all the previous years when we've only been able to use 3 at Shell Take care. Take care of your mic in the Twin Cities. And you have a question about the Northern Leader. You have a comment about baseball in general to 276 thousand in the metro area anywhere else. You can hear the broadcast. You can call toll free to join our discussion this morning the toll free numbers one 800-242-2828 with me in the studio. This morning is Stefan fatsis. He's written a book Wild and outside how Renegade minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland. We just had on the telephone Mike Vick the the man who is becoming very well known as the owner of the Saint Paul Saints we have on the line right now. Gordon was in Grand Portage go ahead and thanks for waiting. Good morning and thank you for allowing us the opportunity to express our appreciation and gratitude for Northern League Baseball, my wife and I supported that we had season tickets to the whiskey Jax and Thunder Bay Ontario last year, and we're so appreciative because First of all, it brings back the hometown flavor the baseball. So when we sing Take Me Out to the ballpark and we're sitting up there in those beautiful bleachers and looking at the Green Grass and blue sky over Lake Superior in Thunder Bay City next to Canadians and helping us to realize that in a very impersonal world where we can meet people who are our neighbors and talk with them and enjoy the game and then honestly accost why is that we can have it season tickets for the whiskey Jax 4 less than it would cost us to go to Minneapolis and see when Twins game and then also in last week's all of the Cities. In the northern league are the most of them have been part of my personal life st. Paul Duluth, Sioux Falls and living in Fargo. So it's kind of like a Perpetual a homecoming to have teams come to visit you when you can't travel or to those Faraway places, so it's just a beautiful experience and we're just very grateful for it. Thanks for calling Gordon and enjoy your summer of baseball up there and Thunder Bay. Lillian is on the line now from Minneapolis before we go to Lily and I want to give the number out cuz we do have some room opening up. Once again on the phone lines. If you want to join the conversation you can do so by calling 227-6000. If you're in the Twin Cities metropolitan area, that's 227 6000 with your question or comment about outdoor baseball or Major League Baseball. If you're listening outside of the metropolitan area, you can call toll-free this morning one 800-242-2828 and now is the time to get in if you have a question, go ahead Lillian Hi, how are you? I'm pretty good. How are you? Good. Thank you though in my car running errands and I I tuned in and I was listening to the conversations and I I guess that I don't really have a question but it seems like the Minneapolis wounds haven't really been discussed too much. I was at their game last night and they play over at Siebert field. And I mean it's a it's a fun time as well as the Saints and the other games and I just think that they should get some credit to talk a little bit about that talk about the league the loons are in in and how they're doing. They're not designed to stand and I was the phone's a light up now, but they're not as successful at this point as the northern league and ended the Saints for example know they're not believe that they were in last year actually folded and the league of the winds are in folded last year and they hooked up with a new league hold the Prairie League. I was actually talking to Greg Olsen the manager of the loons last night. I ran into him and he was saying that they seem to have things a little bit better organize this year. They're they're able to sell beer at the Ballpark. They've they've so Send signs. They had some real problems after they didn't draw much more than six or seven hundred fans at night. I think there's room in the Twin Cities for two teams more baseball the better. I I don't think it's a it's a it's a dog-eat-dog world when it comes to independent baseball if they can succeed terrific. There's there's plenty of room for more than one team a little difficult though. I would assume the sort of steal the Thunder from something like what the saints were able to create a I think you need to develop your own clientele your own fan base and there's no reason that they can't do that. This is a big big Market you talk about the dissatisfaction the others going to be a little bit of trickle-down from the deciding factor with the twins in the lives will probably benefit but they can't rely on that. They have to go out and aggressively market and become successful in their own right? It's it's not easy work, but it's probably room for the big city. Stefan fatsis is here this morning. He's the author of wild an outside hauler Renegade minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland that leave the tea was writing about is the northern league and that's what we're talkin. About this morning on Saturday. Midday. It's about 18 minutes before 12 noon, and we still have room open on the Lions. If you have a question about the northern League or outdoor baseball or a what's going on with a major league stuff right now as well to 276 thousand is a number to call 227-6004 listing in the Twin Cities toll free from anywhere else that one 800-242-2828. Mike has been waiting in Lake Elmo. Go ahead. Yeah, I grew up in southern Minnesota and watch the southern with moose skowron and and other folks and by the end of the late 60s that was gone. How's the northern League going to avoid the same space at the southern mini league and then other minor league teams and leagues in Minnesota that I think it's a simple answer that it's not 1960 anymore Minor League Baseball was all the dead in the 60s and the 70s fan stopped going the game really changed the in the in the 50s particularly there were new. Diversions television air conditioning cap people inside there were such a such a lot of minor league teams that they said that the numbers just drastically reduced by the 60s league for folding there was little support from the majors. There was declining fan interest in baseball generally, but you had a tremendous Renaissance in the 80s that brought fans back to the ballpark. It's made these League successful. There are far fewer teams now than there were 40 or 45 years ago, but it's gradually increasing the game is run much more professionally now, it's much more of a business. The marketing is a lot smarter people know how to how to attract people and I think that's a big difference back then it was just taken for granted the baseball existed and people would come and it was never the case. It was a perennial money loser. And nobody really thought twice about it. Now. It's a way to make money with a lot of different owners minor league owners the players that just watching the whole system as you put together this What do you think in 1995 is the biggest threats that the league faces and what what's out there on the horizon? Is it relations with the players some guys getting $1,000 a month and they're going to find out that maybe maybe Mike vac is making considerably more money than they may have thought. He was what what what's the deal it? Is it that the relations between the players in the owners? I don't think so as much of minor league players understand that this is the way the game is structured and is always been structured they're there because they want something desperately. They want a crack at the show. They want to make the majors. Even an Affiliated minor league baseball in the farm is real low that the benefits come later and I think that's a tragedy for these kids because they deserve better than that, but that's the way the game has been for a long time. So, I think there's there's an acceptance level there. I think what's more of a threat is the relationship with the communities? So it's what Mike was talking about. I remember sitting with him in the stands last year at the beginning of the season and him telling me the thing we've got to watch out for this year is it? Licensee said I sat down my front office and I told them forget about 1993 when we won the championship and we sold out and it was surprising success. He said forget about it. This is a new year. You got to be humble and we have to work twice as hard and he said it again today and I think he means it and the only way for for baseball to succeed as if it doesn't forget about who pays the bills in the fans pay the bills and major the forgotten that so if you're a fan in your view think you may have missed out on on the initial excitement of the other Northern legs Beginnings count on there being more and more just so they can keep going on. I hope so. I hope to leave sticks around. I hope I hope that Mike Zeck. I hope his success inspires more MyTracks. Okay back to Minneapolis. Good morning Betsy. They first started playing and mostly am excited about the return of outdoor baseball as well as a roll of independent leagues for people who don't want to go sit in a dome stadium. Watch Coke commercials and so on and I'm curious about what you see is a future possibility for an independent league for women's baseball or sick one is probably going to get started soon. There are there was talk last year with the barnstorming success of the Colorado silver bullets in all women team that did play against the northern League All-Stars and didn't do that. Well, but they they ended up turning the country playing Semi-Pro ball and there was talk over the winter and maybe even happen for all I know I'm not sure of the details but there was talk of starting a 4-team all women league in Florida that may happen this year or next year. I think we have someone else on the line. I'm not sure who it is though. But there you are. Who are you thanks for calling go ahead with your question and see the Angels when they practice out in California and found it real excited to be outside. And so then it becomes a Wonder you can't go over how do you take care of that? I think you try hard. I mean you can go to the stadium and get tickets. They're not sold out entirely. But that's one of the pitfalls of excessive demand is always going to be there the same stride to meet saw that the man last year the increase the stadium capacity from around 48 or 49 hundred up to 6300. So there was a responsiveness there, but you can only grow so much in terms of the size of the stadium. They don't want to play in a 30000 seat stadium is a different in minor league baseball, but I think that it's just perseverance of fans want to go and be entertained. It's something that's in the man and he got them if you have to have to go out and hustle to get it and I think there are plenty of tickets available to see if people want to know how many games do they play. Do you know the other do they play an 80 Games season this year 84 Game season and do you know to what extent they're sold out for that season? I don't you know. Okay. Alright to 276 thousand is a number to call to ask you a question of Stefan fatsis. He studied the northern. Liguanea came out with a book fair recently titled wild and outside how a renegade minor league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland and were talking about the northern league today and its Association relationship to a what's been going on with the Major League Baseball and Major League Baseball problems to 276 thousand is a number in the Twin Cities one. 800-242-2828 is the toll free number you can get through on that line. If you're outside of the metro area, let's go back to the phones and to Rick who is waiting in Saint Paul. Go ahead. I heard you earlier talking about the Negro Leagues and my question is not about the new releases right about the old and I've heard that there's a chance of that being revived in ncell with the city's be possibly I getting a team Okay. Well we can talk about that a minute ago. What do you think? Is it would Minneapolis-Saint Paul biya largest market to support her? Who knows? I think that's what it's a tough row to hoe. I think there was some pans that would be interested in that but I think that's going to have to be something that starts real small. I'm a few teams in a in a in markets where perhaps there isn't much else going on where we're fans might be attracted. A lot of people came out and watched the Silver Bullets who are the all women team last summer that may be more of a curiosity thing. But I think certainly that there's room there probably am and I know that there are plenty of of women players who would be interested in getting into an all-women's leak. Who knows. Maybe we'll see it. I think it'd be good for baseball in minor leagues. I guess. I I don't know each other and fighting tips to be the minor league that people are interested in it. And is there a danger if too many of these pop-up that they all will have their separate identities and and minor league baseball? As an alternative maybe two major league baseball won't be just sort of one thing and if he's very dilute it. Well if there's there's a threat of that but I think that the free market will take care of it. It is darwinian in some respects the survival of the fittest are going to survive if we can't draw enough fans in the markets there in if the promotions aren't smart enough if the owners don't really know how to run it as a business. They're not going to survive and I think you're going to see a lot of shake out Mike mentioned 13 leagues 11-12 13th. It's even unclear how many there are this year, but it's around a dozen. I don't think they're all going to survive. I think it half make it that'll be good because you need certain fundamentals and independent baseball because you're paying all the cost you need large markets need support of communities. You need a dedicated fan base. And if you don't have it, you're going to find out pretty quickly that you can't make it go. The money is not going to add up and these leaves are not going to be able to survive. A lot of people calling up today and saying geez we just love going to outdoor baseball boy to stop going to watch the twins when they built the Metrodome. There's talk now around here that you know down the road here when the pull ads decide that they might want to do something with the twins if they can't be viable where they are at the Metrodome that maybe there would be the state or somebody building a big outdoor stadium something like that were put together how much of a threat would that posed to the success of these Minor League Outdoor leagues have had I don't see why it would pose any success. I think it would be good for baseball. You need to keep fan interest up. I don't think the Saints have taken one fan away from the twins. I think they create a lot of new fans. I think they've create a lot of fans who otherwise felt that don't really want to go to the twins. It's indoors. I don't like that philosophy. I don't think I don't think they're fighting over the same people. I don't necessarily think that they've the Saints folded tomorrow the 6311 fans who were there last night would suddenly go running over to the Metrodome. I think a lot of it is a personal taste and if there were an if there were an outdoor Stadium built in the Twin Cities and I be great for baseball the metronomes a lousy place to watch a game. You don't want Major League Baseball to fail because it'll trickles down four major league baseball that's where the inspiration comes from. People have to love the game at some level and and I think it would be important to to have that. Okay. We have one caller on the line right now, and we'll have time to go to a few more calls. So if you want to be on the air right now and talk with us Stephen fattest about the northern League now is a great time to to give us a ring to 276 thousand is a number if you're listening in the Twin Cities area outside of the Metro are you can call toll free at one. 800-242-2828. Russ is in Roseville. Good morning Rush. Thanks for waiting. Calling the comment on the the woman's League does Midway Stadium later. This year is having a women's professional Fastpitch game at Midway Stadium softball. Leap starting out there doing an exhibition tour. That's what I hear. The other is a league starting up. Call to tell you that okay. Well, thanks for us. Thank you. Have a good day ahead with your question. I wanted to hear at the game last night and I will support of it. I just would like to make a comment that we were disappointed that the old announcer was gone. And that Biff Mike Veeck is listening to let him know that we'd like to get the guy back. It was a real real Plus for the the game in the league and as a participant in a supporter. We'd like to see that kind of thing. Continue Douglas. Let me ask you this question if the twins played in an outdoor stadium and then things were sort of brought back to the way they were before the Metrodome. Would you maybe lose some interest in the Saints right now? Oh, I don't think so. I mean I would be nice to go to see the twins in an outdoor doormat, but there's just something about the Saints. It's smaller. It's more per It's a lot of fun. It's a lot less expensive easier to go and get there and you don't get tied up in this much traffic. So we're planning on staying Saints fans and and season ticket holders. We have no June on the line, who is also calling from Roseville. Go ahead June 9th have been Saints pants from the beginning. We sat in the rain last night and had a wonderful time. The only thing I would like to say is I'm a non-smoker and I've never minded the cigarette smoking in the occasional cigar, but we actually had to leave our season-ticket seats last night because there were 10 cigars surrounding us and we literally got smoked out we wound up in the family section, which was nice. I mean gave us a different perspective, but I was wondering It seems that cigar-smoking is being encouraged and I'm not I mean, it doesn't really matter to me. It's just that we were very uncomfortable and I was wondering if this is going to turn into a big smoke a van over there. I have a suggestion for you Mike. Mike told me last year. He answers every complaint or concern from fans personally find him in the stadium. If you want to tell him that's what makes independent baseball in the Saints interesting. There's an intimacy you can walk up to my back and talk to him and tell him what you think Jean. Yes. Are those people that went to the saints that are the first year they were here got season tickets cuz I was excited to return the outdoor baseball but also because I remember going as a kid over the old Midway stadium and watching the Saints play The Millers and I just wanted to add my vote to the previous caller who said let's have a low back is the announcer I was I was still I'm going to keep my season tickets and keep going to the game cuz I enjoy it for a lot of reasons, but I do miss that an out there. Okay. Well chain. Thanks a lot for calling appreciate it. But what you people expect that in General Stephen from the northern League this year do you imagine they will be riding on the success of a violet had with past couple of years. I think I'd be foolish to ride on the success, but I think they got a build on it. I think Mike understand that I think the other owners understand it to they wash the attendance figures very closely night after night. They all want to win because they know that winning is going to bring fans back to the park night after night. So there's a real competitive energy that keeps the northern Lee going at an ownership. Anna Anna managerial level on the field and in the stands fans need to just continue doing what they're doing. Appreciate what they've got tell the front office is when they don't like something ask him that I'm in. This is what makes the northern League accessible. It's it's then that's what sets it apart. Try talking to the Carl pohlad. I don't think you're going to have much success, but you can talk to Mike back to talk to the owners and these other cities and that's the one thing. I really I I bet that I took away from spending a year in the northern League Stefan fatsis is the author of wild an outside. How are Renegade minor-league revive the spirit of baseball in America's Heartland published by Walker. Thanks a lot for coming in this morning and folks want to pick up a copy of this or meet you you'll be out at Midway Stadium tomorrow right? I will be out signing books and happy to talk to fans during the game tomorrow afternoon what good it's been a great pleasure having you here. Thanks again. I thank you for having me the technical directors for today's broadcast of midday have been Clifford Bentley and Jeff Conrad. Thanks very much to John Gordon hue. Sorted out the phone activity appreciate that I Mark the deck like enjoy your Saturday Minnesota Public Radio news is supported in part by the oriental rug company celebrating its 10th anniversary year at 50th and Bryant in Minneapolis what Chris Roberts today is the day I pay you back the 11 seconds. I owe you. I was just going to say Mark at all this talk of baseball makes me want to go to the batting cage. I really do know where your helmet Chris I will write I will and hopefully they'll they have the tarp out at Municipal Stadium because the shower light but they're continuing this afternoon in the Twin Cities scattered light showers in the forecast in isolated thunderstorm is also possible a high in the mid-60s. Mostly cloudy skies were expected tonight with a 30% chance of an evening shower becoming partly cloudy later on though. That's the good news Lowe's down to 45 to 50 degrees and for Sunday arrived. Nice day is expected partly cloudy skies for Sunday in the Twin Cities the high tomorrow approaching.