(00:00:00) Thank you listeners for joining us for this midday portion of our broadcast. As I said not too long ago our guest in the studio. Today is Joan Nassau our and business hours the head of the University of Minnesota's Department of landscape architecture. She's an expert in the areas of landscape design and Landscape ecology for both Urban suburban and rural areas. And as always we'll be taking your calls and questions about how you can better design a landscape around your house or for that matter around your business. You can call with your questions at to 276 thousand or toll free anywhere you hear this program at one eight hundred two, four two 2828. Once again, that's two two seven six thousand in the Twin Cities or toll-free at 1-800-321-8633 much for joining us in the studio this morning. I think a good First question to ask you would be what exactly is landscape architecture. What do we mean by that if that expression is not self explanatory in itself. Tom landscape architecture is design profession that's been actively practiced in this country for over 200 years Thomas Jefferson was perhaps the first American landscape architect. The way we Define landscape architecture is as the Art and Science of arranging land for human use what that means. Is that Landscape Architects from Frederick Law Olmsted who designed Central Park work with very small Landscapes like your yard. They also work with very large Landscapes Frederick Law Olmsted for example was the first designer of the first national park Yosemite. Well, we already have quite a few. Callers on the line. First of all though, I do want to ask you to get into one issue that I know that you've written about and that is the Ecology of conventional Lawns. When we think of a conventional lawn. First of all, what do we usually think of in an urban or Suburban setting? That's something about which I've conducted a fair amount of research myself and I've learned by talking to people who live in rural areas both farmers and people who don't Farm as well as people who live in the city and as I've talked to them I've learned that what at least midwesterners value in their own Landscapes, very highly is neatness. We spend an enormous amount of our own time and energy and expense to keep our Landscapes looking neat and tidy and green and what are some of the drawbacks in your opinion of that. In some respects our instinct to show that we're taking good care of the land which I think is a most admirable Instinct as you think about how you enjoy a neat neighborhood can mislead us to do what we really wouldn't prefer to do that is to use resources water energy chemical resources in a way that's unnecessary. And that might actually harm the environment in the longer term. Well, we'll be talking about some of the alternatives to the conventional lawn a little bit later in the program. First of all, I think I would like to go to the phones. Hello. Thanks for calling your on. Midday. Go ahead. Hi. I'm Brian from Minneapolis and I'm trying to get some wildflowers growing in my in my backyard and wondering if you can tell me you some suggestions on how you do that get that started. And then also how you would maintain them, especially if there's any benefit in burning Etc. Beginning wildflowers in your backyard is is a good way to start because a backyard is a place where again our aesthetic conventions allow us to experiment a bit more than in the front yard in some of the Prototype designs that we've developed for individual residences. Some of the things that we've attempted to do our first of all to make your Wildflower Garden is in as large an area as possible. One of the things our Urban and Suburban areas are lacking are larger connected patches of native vegetation. So think rather than having two or three or four scattered pieces from an ecological standpoint and I think as well from an aesthetic standpoint, you'll gain greater impact by having a single larger piece of your Wildflower Garden other things to think about are that the part of your backyard where you can have this kind of Greater biodiversity. Greater Randomness might be a good place to a temporary hold water and use water loving wild flowers as well it on the other hand. You could use wild flowers that are well adapted to dry Sunny locations to hold a dry Sunny Slope. You know, I Joan I imagine there are a lot of people who are thinking about some of these issues and they want to get into more perhaps natural or more native plants and really don't know where to go where to get started. Where do you go to to buy some of these native herbaceous plants? What are some of these plants that we talked about when we're talking about having a more natural yard. This is a I think a growing industry in one. I hope will grow even more in alternative Horticulture in Minnesota. And in the midwest, we're lucky to have some very fine wholesale and Retail businesses some that have a very good track record and then I've been in operation here in Minnesota over the the Decade our Prairie Restorations and Princeton, Minnesota Landscape Alternatives here in st. Paul, and I and I and I want to be clear that that's that's just a the kind of the tip of the iceberg. These are businesses that I've had contact with, but it is not a complete list a good place to get a more complete list would be to call dial you which is in the business pages of the phone book. This is the extension phone connection of the Department of horticulture at the University of Minnesota and dial you can provide you with a more complete list. We're talking with Joan NASA our who's the head of the Department of landscape architecture at the University of Minnesota. If you want to give us a call with your questions about Landscaping your own yard or business or even some of the high-concept questions about Landscaping in general. You can call us at two to seven six thousand in the Twin Cities or toll-free at 1-800-321-8633. For calling what's your question? Hello, do we have a caller? Oh, yeah. Hello. The problem with us is that we have trees are so well grow in the shade everything. So well that our lawn doesn't seem to go very well. It's almost like a tropical forest her backyard and I'm convinced that what we need to do is have a special pruner come in there and prune some of these mature trees to get rid of some of the shading and my wife is still a little shaky on this idea. And I'd like to see about where I get some convincing literature that would explain to the novice about the importance and necessity of having grown mature trees pruned. I think the best place again to get literature on on plants and the care of plants and that's a large part of your question is through the extension service of the University of Minnesota and in particular the department of horticulture. Once again, I want to repeat if you look at the business White Pages in the d section. You'll find dial you and you can simply call that one 900 number and there you get wonderful advice through the mail or over the phone that way. However, I guess I'd like to back up a bit and and think a little bit about your larger reason for wanting to do pruning and and I and other landscape architect certainly are Advocates of intervening with nature things like pruning your trees on the other hand this gets to the issue of what do we want that lawn for in the first place and as a landscape architect thinking about how we arrange the landscape I'd ask Think about how much yard you need help that is pardon me. How much lawn you need what you use it for how it can be placed near the activity areas of your house where you'll be outside and actively using the lon and perhaps in part of your yard where these mature trees are shading and creating a creating like you said something like a tropical forest. There might be some advantages and leaving some of that understory vegetation. Certainly there would be advantages from the standpoint of the urban Wildlife. I'm assuming you live in the metro area here that might inhabit that understory that that understory could very well be providing food and cover for the Wildlife that we enjoy the very Wildlife that we try to attract say with bird feeders. So try to strike a balance will take another call. Go ahead. You're on midday on NPR. Yes. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I have a red maple tree in my front yard. That's about For six years old and I it needs trimming or pruning badly. What time of year is a good time to do this? Once again, I would refer you to the Department of horticulture the best way to get advice about how to care for particular plants how to install particular plants how to deal with diseases and in plants is to go to the science of horticulture. One thing I should point out we're speaking with Joe NASA or the head of the University of Minnesota's Department of landscape architecture. Her expertise does fall in the area of landscape architecture is opposed to Horticulture. So we'll probably ask for questions having to do with with designing your law and as opposed to how you cure diseases that plants may have and that kind of thing getting back to the question about the man who had who felt he had too many trees I suppose is you said one big question you have to ask when you're looking at your own lawn is what exactly are you going to use it for? Yes, and of course if one Typically, once you begin to study this you discover that all of the area that you're expending your time and energy mowing is not used in a way that's necessary to be maintained in that way. Now a lawn is a wonderful thing. It's a beautiful thing and it's a useful thing but too much Lon more lawn than we need really Rob's our larger Metropolitan environment of the biodiversity that was here before European settled and certainly before we begin to spread our Suburban land cover pattern over miles and miles and townships and townships over what once was a very rich ecological area. If you were to give one really good alternative to your basic Bluegrass lawn. What do you think? It would be what kind of plants would they be? What would they look like good question. We actually have conducted some fairly specific research on that. Question in the south east metro area here. It was funded by the forest service. They're very the USDA forest service is very interested in the urban forest in our research. We did computer simulations to show homeowners 8 alternatives for for their lawns what we discovered by surveying over 300 South East metro area residents is that an alternative where half the conventional Lon is replaced by a garden of native plant materials. And in that part of the metro area the native plant Community was an oak Savanna. So in our simulations, we drew from plants of the oak Savannah oak trees Aspen trees Western red cedar and Prairie plants that would have constituted the understory. It's important to understand that you can't just expect these things to spring up when you get rid of your lawn needs to be designed and planted as Garden but we use those plants that were well adapted to that condition and this is very important plants that would provide for the Wildlife that are indigenous to our area. We have Joan a sour on this midday call in program on Minnesota Public Radio and we have several callers on the line. So we will go to the next one. Thanks for calling. What's your question? My name is Bill. I live in st. Paul and hundred-year-old house building 1888 in Ramsey Hill historic district. And my question is about it's about historically accurate Landscaping a lot of my misconceptions or prejudices. I think have that if you have gravel or if you have certain kind of shrubs, it looks like a Suburban home. If you have another kind of landscaping. It seems to fit well in with the historic neighborhood. Could you talk a little bit more about that about the historic design of landscaping for home? Well, actually you're right. Step with the National Park Service asking that question thinking about historic preservation or restoration not only as a problem of architecture, but as a problem of the correct and authentic selection of plants and even plant varieties that is specific genetic hybrids of plants that were available at the time when an historic landscape was established has become a very active area of research first in landscape architecture, and now of practice for a group of specialists in landscape architecture and there are such people who are practicing here in the Upper Midwest. They do things for example on in where they're looking at very history, very important historical sites is digging up the soil finding the roots finding the pollen of the original Plants, but they also do things that Probably any of us could do with the right amount of energy. They do things that like look at the seed and Nursery catalogs that were available at the historic period when the structures were built Joan. Is there anything you can say about what this man's hundred-year-old house and Lawn may have may have looked like when it was first built if we had this notion of nice grassy Lawns for the past hundred years. Oh indeed. Yes, I mean, this is an old notion. And in fact, it has been a way of it probably came from England and the kind of notion of a picturesque pastoral landscape of the 18th century there and as we have become a more refined society and as our ideas of the perfect landscape have come from the suburbs first of New England and then in the Upper Midwest, the green lawn has spread all over the country. So I'm sure that this hundred-year-old house did include some area of ideally Green Turf it also undoubtedly included in. Number of Horticultural varieties of plants and I have to say that in the Upper Midwest in individual homes. It probably would have been rather unusual to have a great interest in native plants a hundred years ago. We're talking with Joan Nassar the head of the University of Minnesota's Department of landscape architecture. Give us a call. If you have a question having to do with any manner of landscape architecture in the Twin Cities. Our telephone number is two two seven six thousand or call us toll free anywhere. You can hear this radio signal at one eight hundred to four to 2828 will go to another call. Thank you for calling. What's your question? Yes, our son bought a house and built a house in Elk River the ground there is very very Sandy all sand and now they're going to start working on the putting in the lawn and the landscaping and so on. He said that they hauled in Pete. How should they prepare this? Very sandy soil To get started with their landscaping and their lawn and so on ultimately to make a prescription of how to prepare the soil again. I would refer you either to the Department of soil science at the University of Minnesota or the department of agronomy. Pardon me the department of horticulture, both of which have active extension components specially to help the citizens of Minnesota make these kinds of decisions, but I want to I also want to answer your question in a slightly different way and suggest that if the soil that you're fun son found on this site was Sandy one approach that is going to be productive and sustainable in the long term that is would require less watering less fertilizer and so on would be to select plants that are adapted to Sandy conditions particularly native plants that are adapted to Sandy conditions. I have to say that this also this isn't just a good thing to do in the turn in terms of being sustainable. It is stimulating and fun in the long term to see what kinds of birds butterflies and even perhaps sometimes larger migrating birds and mammals a landscape that includes what is native to the area might attract. We're this is midday on Minnesota Public Radio will take another call. Go ahead. Okay, thank you. I live in northern Minnesota. And I live in a Grove of 75 to 80 year old pine trees Norway Pine in our backyard is completely wild other than taking a weed cutter and keeping the underbrush down. That's all Native. But the front yard is the only part of grass that I have and I keep that that way so that we can see the house from the road underneath the pine trees that are in the front yard. I can't get anything to grow because it's sand and rock. So how would you approach that? So that just from an appearance standpoint? It looks nice. The other thing is the mosquitoes are so bad if you don't keep the Underbrush cut somewhat that you can hardly stand it. Yeah, I can respond from what we have learned by talking to people in the metro area with these simulations. I described earlier and that is that maintaining at least a kind of border of turf as you've described and also a main view to the house is we've discovered a very important component of introducing large areas of native plants to a front yard. In other words. That's a way to keep the look of your yard demonstrating that you're taking good care of your yard and really contributing to the appearance of the neighborhood but also increasing biodiversity the problem of mosquitoes. I really can't address except to note some of the obvious things that is that the openings that you create that our turf should be in the directions most typically from the southeast in the Summer where you're going to be getting a Summer Breeze has to try to move Are current through your site and also what you might try is planting some shade loving shrubs that are likely to attract some of the birds that are consumers of mosquitoes as well. I think there's no really good solution to mosquitoes in northern Minnesota. However, I suppose he could move someplace else that might solve that problem altogether. Although I'm sure he loves it where he is. He raises an interesting question doesn't he? Because one of the things you've been talking about is how do we encourage more natural things more wildlife in our in our yards and this caller is in a situation where he's kind of trying to fight it off to an extent. So that does make a difference. Doesn't it? Well, yes, I think I think though it is important to distinguish among species of wildlife. I suspect just be from what the caller said that he might be one of the many thousands of minnesotans that are also trying to attract birds. And so by placing bird feeders in their landscape and bird baths and important thing there is to provide also in addition to the food and water that you might be providing to provide that larger landscape context the cover the nesting area so that you really providing a complete habitat for the birds. May I my experience in Minnesota here is that people generally are rather good-natured and good-humoured about things like mosquitoes and and even a deer depredation, which is a serious problem is something that some people are willing to tolerate because they also enjoy looking at these creatures. We're talking with Joan NASA or an expert in landscape architecture will take another call at this point. Thanks for calling. What's your question? Pick my answer on the air Phil Lewis from the University of Wisconsin talks about the importance of landscape architecture being brought into the planning process at the urban and Regional level and the importance of green space in and around urban areas and the importance of protecting agricultural land in particular around those urban areas with that as a background. I wonder if you could comment on how involved Landscape Architects are in the Metro planning process and in particular how involved Landscape Architects were in the new Dakota County site selected by the Metropolitan Airport commission and and wouldn't that further erode agricultural lands? Thank you. I'm glad you asked that question because some of the most important work that Landscape Architects have done over the last more than a century over the last hundred and fifty years has been large-scale arrangement of land from perhaps the most startling example is the landscape architect Warren Manning who in the early part of the 20th century had a national plan for the the Federal Highway System as well as a federal Airport System Phil Lewis the landscape architect who you mentioned has been planning for Statewide Wildlife corridors and advocating that these environmental Corridor is connect ecologically rich areas for the last 30 years. And I think that your your mention of the urban green space system is also particularly astute because Again, since I've been in Minnesota in the last 15 years one of the things I hear again and again is how much residents of the metro area enjoy the park system, which is in fact has been called the greatest Park system of the United States one of the key initiators one of the key people whom we have to thank for that is the landscape architect. Hws Cleveland who designed the entire park system the River Roads who really set up that important ecological and aesthetic infrastructure that we enjoy today. Some of the most important challenges for landscape architecture and planning are about guiding the direction and the pattern of suburban growth and that means maintaining those same kinds of ecologically Rich corridors that Cleveland identified way back in the 1870s when he had to fight hard. To convince the city fathers that it was worth saving land around Lake Calhoun because that was way out in the country and who would ever ever be developing out there. Now, we need to raise public Consciousness at those same kinds of issues exist as the metropolitan area spreads its development pattern which tends to reduce biodiversity in all directions a particularly controversial site. I know will be the site in the northern north central part of Dakota County that has been identified as the site of choice. If a new airport is constructed as a matter of fact, the department of landscape architecture conducted a three month long study of one of the key pieces of that site three years ago in menninger Township, and we worked with the citizens of miniature Township one of those Township. Dakota County to help them see how under a number of development scenarios that historically and ecologically Rich Township might be managed of the scenarios. We presented to them. It was clear that the airport scenario was going to result in the most dramatic and challenging change your listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio, and we're going to take just a quick break here from the subject of landscape architecture to talk a little bit about the weather the national weather service in st. Cloud has issued a severe thunderstorm warning effective until 12:30 for people in the following locations in central Minnesota. That would be Eastern Stearns County 11:30. Just a couple minutes ago a line of thunderstorms continue to move into Eastern Stearns County. The storm has a history of strong winds and heavy rain cities in the path of this line of storms include Albany Richmond and st. Cloud. This is Warning and it is an extension of a previous severe thunderstorm warning. You should move inside a strong building do not stand by Windows. Once again National Weather Service issuing a severe thunderstorm warning for Eastern Stearns County. The time is 11:30 three, we're talking with Joan a sour about the subject of landscape architecture. If you have a question for her on this issue called 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities or toll-free 1-800-221-9460 or question. My question is sort of related to the last comment you made Joan. I'm involved with a gardening group in South st. Paul and we're trying to cultivate an appreciation for landscaping within our community here and I was wondering if you could comment on the value of maintain both public and private Garden spaces and perhaps how best to sell this idea to local. Is thank you. One of the most powerful effects of garden spaces in an urban area. I have to conclude based on my own research is the way those Gardens demonstrate in a very public way, whether they're in private land or public land they demonstrate in a very public way that people care about their neighborhood that they have pride in their neighborhood and this effect has been demonstrated in the in the inner city of Chicago. It's been demonstrated in Boston and Community Gardens and it certainly in my research in southeast Minnesota and Illinois and here in the metro area that same effect has been noted by people as they talk about their own Landscapes. So I think if one wanted to identify a way of showing that you take care of your neighborhood and a way that Valve's people in working together to establish this immediate tangible delightful result one could hardly find a better way the issue of showing pride in your neighborhood and pride in your home. Of course is very important when it comes to to landscaping and it's an interesting question. When you start talking about more natural landscapes, I think you have commented before that. We do have this impression that nice thick expansive Turf is what looks nice. That's what is aesthetically pleasing to a lot of people and what happens sometimes two people who try to get into more natural plants do their neighbors complain and say hey who's this guy with this ratty garden and ratty lawn and what do they do about that? I think that that has happened quite a lot there have been there's been national, press about some of these controversial issues where homeowners have attempted and in fact have changed their the Landscape style of their yards from a conventional style to say a meadow or an area that's covered with a non-native but more sustainable plant like a crown vetch and and I think what has been missing in those cases is the use of design to really communicate to neighbors and the city at large that the space is being cared for. I think that we cannot expect that we simply change all convert all of the areas that have been Turf in our yards to to native plants and expect people to understand that what is likely to happen again based on the research we've conducted is that people are going to think that looks neglected. That's not to say that we can't experiment that we can include these native plants we can but it needs to be designed carefully. Let me tell you some of what we've identified as what we call the Q's to care things you can include in your yard. So people know that as your gardening with native plants are also taking good care of things. One of these would be to use lots of flowering plants in the native seed mix. Don't rely primarily on grasses. Remember, this is a garden there are many magnificent flowering plants that you can include people associate flowers and even some annuals that you might put in the seed mix. The first year with good care. Another queue is include some Turf our research projects found in general 50% is good include that on the in the front and that is the street front near the front door invisible areas to show that you're taking care of things and keep that mon show that you're taking good care of that some other ideas that come mainly from the rural research, but they seem at this point to apply to some Suburban areas. Is that some kind of ornaments a white fences things that are painful It neatly that again give you an opportunity to show that you're taking care of things might form a kind of border for the areas of more irregular native plants and show that what's inside is intended to be there are midday guest today is Joan Nassau. Our who is a specialist in landscape architecture. If you have a question call us at two to seven six thousand in the metro area or toll-free at 1-800-222-8477 Point. Thank you for calling. Why don't you tell us where you're calling from? I think we're curious about that, but go ahead. Hello, do we have a caller? Yes. Hello. This is Barbara. I'm calling from Plymouth our backyard backs up to a pond and wetlands area. The elevation is very gradual down to this Pond. We'd like to put in some decorating rock around that pond a little concerned about erosion. Will there be a problem with that Plymouth and some of the other suburbs that have been more recently developed have many examples of subdivisions that have been developed around Wetlands. Sometimes created Wetlands. These are good examples of very important and positive landscape features that help to hold the water in the Upland in an on a day like this in a summer like this and prevent flooding Downstream and improve water quality and recharge of the aquifer that many of us drink from so I want to say that First to establish for you that that Wetland is an important ecological asset II think about in thinking about how you want to relate your yard to that Wetland I will repeat the advice of the one of the first Landscape Architects the 18th century poet Alexander. Pope said something that we still use all the time. He said consult The Genius of the place the way I would repeat that as think about what you would really find next to a wetland. Probably it would not be gravel. It would not be Stone. It would be the plants that grow around a wetland are part of what we call the wet Meadow Association. These are herbaceous plants that thrive with their feet wet part of the year with their Roots wet part of the Year. There are a number of flowering wet Meadow plants that are Beautiful that have very bright red yellow pink blossoms much of the Year and that are readily available at some of these suppliers that I mentioned or called dial you to find out what they are. I would strongly recommend that you experiment with those plants that really do allow you to establish something that is about the genius of that ecological asset. You have the Wetland will take another call at this point. Hello. Thanks for calling. Where are you calling from? I'm calling from Montana. All right, go ahead. Well, I recently moved into an area where my lawn is almost completely covered in some spots with knapweed. I don't know if you have that out there but short of killing up the lawn and starting over. Is there any less dangerous herbicide excuse? I cannot recommend an herbicide again. I would suggest calling the Horticulture Department there at the University of Montana or Montana State and they can recommend an herbicide and I'm sorry, I don't reckon I do not recognize the name of the plant I can I can give them more General kind of reaction. And that is that assuming that the snap weed is is an invasive exotic plant. That is a weed. That doesn't belong there. Then when when you do when you are successful in removing it which probably will mean the use of an herbicide or in this residential setting. Otherwise, you might think about burning you might consider what kinds of plants that are native to the area and are likely to spread well and be tenacious in preventing the invasion of this kind of weed what kind of native plant might work there another reason to do that. And I wish I had mentioned this more frequently as we talked about some of these other landscape situations is because they'll using a native plant will allow you to learn a little bit about what kinds of native Wildlife frequently song birds are attracted by what really is native to your area How likely is it that some of the people calling in with questions to this program might run up against local ordinances that are telling you what kind of long you are supposed to have it is it is likely that people particularly people who experiment without being aware of these cues to care and I think lots of people are aware of and that that's why we learn how we learned about it by talking to people. It's kind of your own sense of what fits in the neighborhood. But if you conduct an experiment and changing your landscape where you have grasses or flowers that are growing frequently weed ordinances local In ordinances will cite over 6 inches and you you do this in a way that doesn't include the neighbors. It's possible that a neighbor will cite you on the ordinance and you'll need to deal with the city. I think that a number at least in the metro area here in the Twin Cities and number of local governments are reviewing their weed ordinances to make them not only more accepting but more encouraging to the use of native plants. Also a technique that I've heard a number of Law and innovators use is that they visit their with their neighborhoods neighbors before beginning one of these experiments let them know and in a way include them and seeing what the how the experiment Works we're talking once again with Joan a sour the head of the University of Minnesota's Department of landscape architecture. We have some callers on the line right now. We have about a quarter of an hour left in this program. So do try to give us a call and we'll see if we can get you on with your question. The number to call in. The Twin Cities is 2276 thousand. And you can call toll-free at 1-800-321-8633. Um, I'm calling from Roseville. My name is Lily Zach. I have a question about Rhododendron. I have a home that faces West and it's an L-shaped home with a garage. It protrudes out towards the west and in that little angle of the L. I've I planted some rhododendrons. I understood that they do very well on the north side of anything, but it turns out they're not blooming. Well John, that's a bit of a Horticultural question. Do you have any advice for for the caller? I think I would repeat my faithful advice advice. I give to myself I have called dial you with these kinds of questions myself in the past. All right. We'll take the next caller. Thank you for calling. Where are you calling from? Yes. I'm calling from Moorhead Minnesota, and I have a large maple tree. You're my backyard and under the grass is not growing and this would be a good place for a more wild area. Could you please suggest what kind of plants I might want to put under this maple tree. Let me suggest a good process for thinking about what kinds of plans you might want to put their there. If you the the standard the standard Source book for understanding what plants are part of each native Community here in the north central Midwest is a book by Curtis called. Let's see plant. I guess it's called a plants of the Midwest. I may not be remembering that title correctly right now, but a book by Curtis now, he's Curtis that I'm sorry is Curtis the publisher author the author the author but I want to say that knowing what plants are native to an area. Is different from knowing what native plants are available in nurseries. So the best way to think about this problem is is to extend know that you're looking for shade loving plants as you do and then to specifically inquire in the most nearby wholesale or retail sources for native plants for you what shade loving native plants are available and and then you begin to think about some more standard design considerations. That is the height of the plants things like putting the taller plants near the back from the viewing area as well as the time of year. When each plant is going to bloom a pleasant design often has Bloom throughout the year, you can use those more typical kinds of design considerations. But the main thing in terms of a process for selecting plants is to first see what kinds of shade-loving plants are available in the nurseries, not all the native plants I have been cultivated will take another call. Hello. Thanks for calling go ahead. Thank you. I'm cry. I meant your comments earlier about public spaces prompted me to make this call. In about an area that runs through a large number of neighborhoods and steep rocks that stretch of 35e and it goes south and they have started the supposedly was to be a Parkway and they have started some really nice plantings, but I don't know if they're in the middle of it and are going to continue or not the problem that we have or one of the problems. In addition to the knife is that people really don't treat this as a when you're coming into the city is coming into neighborhoods. And so they continue with their high-speed even though it is a 45 mile Zone my idea and it's kind of a pipe dream. Is that possible if we made that area incredibly beautiful with with Landscaping that people would want to slow down and admire him and recognized immediately that they are in an area that is important to the people who live there and they would want to just because of the surroundings would be more apt to slow down and Treat it as coming from this from the fast country lanes into into the slower residential areas. Is this a possibility and who might I talked to or do you think the federal government is responsible for the plantings Etc. And if you have any ideas that appreciate it and I will hang up and listen. So Joan does does landscape architecture affect the speed at which one drives. It sounds like that's kind of the question. Actually, I it can and there's a very famous book in landscape architecture that was written early on in the development of the federal Interstate System called the view from the road book by one of the great Landscape Architects of this Century Kevin Lynch and he thought about those very things in the design of the Boston Turnpike system. But this this call or understands something that is I think one of the most powerful aspects of landscape architecture that is that the way That'll landscape looks communicates things to people it might communicate Pride but it also might communicate a sense that this is a very unusual place. It's a place that requires you to slow down and look carefully because there's a lot to enjoy it's important to note. I think that the section of the freeway 35e that is a Parkway that goes through the city of st. Paul was a part of the Federal Highway System where Landscape Architects were very intimately involved in the design of that unusual part of the freeway system as you drive that part of the freeway and you know that the unusual details on the bridges the sense of being an important historic area for the state those design details the nature of the bridges the nature of the of the walls along the freeway all were very dependent on the design of Landscape Architect's a number of the state agencies that manage and arrange landscape. Landscape Architects, and the Minnesota Department of Transportation is no exception Landscape Architects. In fact were very important in citing 35e that is deciding where that big freeway Corridor should go how it could minimize its effect on the lakes and ecosystems that were adjacent to the land and within the Minnesota Department of Transportation. You will find Landscape Architects in a number of sections. I happen to know that one section that includes a number of Landscape Architects in this caller may want to call them with her idea is a called environmental services within the Department of Transportation, but you can look at the Department of Natural Resources. You can look at the land management information system center within the state and find Landscape Architects actively involved in designing the landscape of the state, you know Minneapolis, which is our most urban city in Minnesota is a lot of parts of it do Ali look white Suburban, it's not a big city. I suppose in the sense of many cities that are that are oceans of concrete yet downtown. You do have some very urban areas and you often see these buildings that have just a little bit of grass in front trying to use some Landscaping to make to Spruce them up a little bit and it looks like it's so little grass that it almost looks kind of silly. I'm thinking about businesses in this in this point that are close to downtown in a very urban area. They want to Spruce themselves up a little bit but they really don't have a lot of room to with which to do it. Is there any advice that you can give to them? Well first I think that even the most token efforts to include what is green and growing are appreciated by people at once again. I want to refer to the research. This has a number of Studies have been done at the University of Michigan about nature and small urban areas by the kaplan's psychologist who are interested in the effects of landscape and they found that even in the most paved Urban places the effect of a couple of trees an area of flowers the the psychological uplift of that kind of contact with nature is very real very measurable for people as so first of all, I would applaud the efforts of businesses to include well maintained if very small parts of the of their own site that that include trees and flowers and turf second of all, they might be aware of the Business people might be aware of the symbolism of those places and be sure that they're tidy and the third part is that some of those small areas can be used by people and maybe this is one of the things that you are noticing Tom, for example, the design of a retaining wall can that is an edge that holds back Earth might need to hold back Earth, but it can also be designed to be a seat for people who need to wait for the boss or who simply are appreciating the urban scene and that kind of design that thinks about not only the the beauty of a plant but also how people can use a space in multiple ways as something that we really want to participate in an advocate we have about five minutes left to talk with Joan Nassar about the subject of landscape architecture. We have some calls and I'd like to try to get to a few of these before we're done. Thank you for calling go ahead. You're on the air. Buckthorn tree in our the edge of our woods and thought it made such a wonderful privacy fence. And since I first became aware of it about seven years ago, it's taken over almost two acres of the woods and nurseries have told me that column Ur books horn is a different Bush and will not do that. Is that true? To learn about whether columnar Buckthorn is not an invasive plant. I would recommend that you call dial you they will have the most recent information on the characteristics of different varieties of plants. But let me use this opportunity to talk a little bit about about the kind of experience you had where I understand you started out with a small number of Buckthorn plants as part of a hedge and now two acres of your property are covered with these Buckthorn is one of the few plants. There aren't a great number but one of the few plants that that we described as invasive Exotics, these are plants that very easily spread and that seemed to find a very comfortable home in the native landscape of Minnesota or the up the northern United States and the case of Buckthorn the problem with invasive exotic plants by Buckthorn like Buckthorn is that they take the place Of native plants that provide much more valuable habitat and that that are really much more and much more integral to Native ecosystems in the state. So once you begin to Sea Buckthorn, you begin to see it everywhere, especially in the oak Savanna ecosystems of Minnesota and it's a real threat and something that needs to be managed, you know, you travel to a place like Phoenix Arizona and you very often see these midwesterners who have moved there and they've taken their grassy Lawns with them, even though the rainfall in that part of the country really doesn't sustain it. How important is it to really think about native plants that are really native to the area where you are in the southwest as you're describing Tom that water availability of water is a critical constraint and so taking water loving plants with you as well as pollen producing plants with you really contradicts the purpose for which some people move to the South. West which is to get away from pollen, but it's also not a sustainable approach and in fact during the drought years of 87 and 88 both in California. And in the South Southwest, I form an approach to landscape architecture called xeriscaping xer I scaping arose and has become very popular there where people are using plants that are not water consumptive and frequently native not always native, but the important part is in that approach is to use plants that are not water consumptive here in this part of the country water is more available, but there are times when during those same drought years when we like to have Landscapes that are not water consumptive frequently. We would like to have Landscapes that don't take our time when lawn mowing energy. Well, once again, the hour is gone far too quickly. We've been speaking with Joan a sour the head of the University of Minnesota's Department of landscape architecture. He is a expert in the areas of urban suburban and rural rural landscape design and Landscape ecology and thanks very much for joining us. I do appreciate your time. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. The time is 2 minutes before twelve o'clock noon.