(00:00:00) It's a great pleasure to welcome all of you to the Minnesota meeting today. And also to welcome our radio audience throughout the Upper Midwest who are hearing this program a Minnesota public radio broadcast of Minnesota meeting are made possible by the law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and Donnelly with offices in Minneapolis. St. Paul and major cities in the United States and (00:00:22) Europe. Today's speaker is mr. (00:00:26) Franklin Thomas president of the Ford Foundation. Some of you Minnesota meeting regulars may recall that Frank talk to us back in 1983 about apartheid in South Africa. A lot has changed in South Africa since those days Frank knows most of the leading political figures in South Africa black colored and white and in a modest way has contributed to the dialogue that has led to the freeing of black leaders and the change in white policies. Unfortunately, the state of inner city America has not changed as dramatically since the early 1980s crack cocaine and the violence that has helped spur have made America's inner cities increasingly tough places in which to live a young black man living in the nation's capital for example has a much greater chance of being shot and killed that he would have had if he had been with the troops in Vietnam. Our inner cities have become War zones Minneapolis. And st. Paul are not immune to inner-city violence Frank. I know has some strong opinions about how we representing business education nonprofit organizations professions and government can exert can exert leadership in the battle against poverty. Frank Thomas has been the president of the Ford Foundation since 1979. We have been colleagues together on that board for 13 years and have watched the Ford Foundation grow and Thrive Frank was born raised and educated in Brooklyn went to Columbia University where he was a basketball star be caught before coming president of the Ford Foundation. He practiced law in New York City. He worked for 10 years as the CEO of a nonprofit Community Development Corporation. And in fact, perhaps the first one in the country formed in the late 60s in bedford-stuyvesant. He has been a US attorney and a deputy Police Commissioner in New York City. He's written extensively about issues of race and power and has long had a connection to Urban America. Following his address Frank will take questions from the audience Jane mrazek and Glory mcclenahan of Minnesota meeting will move among you with microphones. Please use the slips of paper to jot down questions, and it is now a great pleasure to introduce the president of the Ford Foundation a close colleague and a very good friend Franklin Thomas. Good afternoon. Thank you Ed for that kind introduction. I'm delighted to be back in Minneapolis to address the Minnesota meeting. Of course, it's always a little daunting speaking in the backyard of two of America's legendary speakers Hubert Humphrey and Garrison Keillor and I'll try to keep in mind the admonition Muriel Humphrey once gave her husband when she said, you know, he'll but for your speech to be immortal. It really doesn't have to be eternal. I guess I'd be even more reluctant to be speaking in Minneapolis today the last day of the baseball regular season if the other Frank Thomas had managed to lead the White Sox to a division title. But despite his impressive accomplishments this year the twins prevailed congratulations, and I hope the Metrodome rocks with the sounds of Another World Series in a couple of weeks. This is my second appearance before you the first was in 1985. And on that occasion. I spoke about the scourge of apartheid in South Africa and the important role US policy could play in helping the people of that troubled land find their way to democracy and Equitable social and economic development. It was a time when conditions in that country seemed locked in a spiral of ever increasing violence and unrest Today, I think it's fair to say that the process of fundamental change is underway in South Africa. And the pace of that change has accelerated dramatically in the past 18 months and that describes the political situation not only in South Africa, but in Namibia, which earned its independence last year in much of Latin America in parts of Eastern Europe and most recently in the newly independent Baltic states and the Soviet Union. It is an Awakening that appears to be truly Global in its proportions. Perhaps nothing better illustrates the astounding speed of these changes then a new story that appeared not long ago. It reported on a team of Soviet astronauts who had been rocketed Olof in mid-summer from a country made up of 15 republics that were still bound tightly and Together made up one of the world's superpowers. By early September one of the astronauts was inquiring of his mission control which Republic they should report to and whether it was true that there were plans to sell the space station. A second astronaut asked only half kidding whether they the astronauts would be sold with the ship. It isn't difficult to understand the astonishment or the confusion of those astronauts. But however vague maybe the outlines of the world just taking shape some things are clear. One is that the end of the Cold War has to be seen as a Triumph for the ideals. The United States has championed. Abraham Lincoln once described our nation as the last best. Hope of humankind and now we have all lived to see the fire of that. Hope light the lives of millions and millions of people across the world on a scale that few would have thought possible as recently as two years ago. These changes however are not so much an end as they are a beginning. Once the Euphoria of toppling the old repressive regimes has passed there Remains the hard Monumental work of creating lasting democratic values and institutions and doing that in the face of revived Territorial and ethnic disputes the question. I want to explore with you today. Is this can we as a nation feel the same confidence that we can lead the rest of the world in this next crucial stage and Lead it in the only way that ever really counts by our own example Now that so much of the world is struggling to realize the democratic ideal that America has for so long embodied and defended. What do we say when we're asked how do you do it? How do you translate liberty and justice for all from a promise into a reality? How do you draw the best out of your diverse population so that the economic and social advancement all people seek can be realized when we consider the millions of Americans living in poverty. When we consider the conditions in many of our Urban neighborhoods and rural areas and the growing evidence of social alienation among many can we honestly say that we have faced an answered these questions adequately. In too many instances, I believe the answer is no. I think there are some very basic things we have to do in order to change that answer to yes. The first is that we must start to see the big picture again. I think too many of us have stopped doing that in regard to our domestic affairs. We've been encouraged to look no further than our own backyards to judge how this country was doing the script went something like this. This is the land of opportunity and those who haven't seized the opportunities available to them have only themselves to blame. It's their problem. In a sense, we were given license to worry only about our own welfare and told that if we minded our own business and worked hard, then the big picture would take care of itself, but that hasn't happened here in America. We're luckier than most but no matter where you live. You don't have to go very far these days to be confronted by poverty illiteracy disease violence addictions of every kind for all of our blessings. We Face economic and social challenges that threaten our ability to help improve the condition of people's lives in our own country and create new and better opportunities for all of our children. In too many American communities including our nation's capital a baby born to a poor young mother has less chance of survival than a child born in several of the world's poorest countries too many enter. This world Afflicted with AIDS or addicted to many are undernourished and suffer permanent mental retardation as a result those lucky enough to survive infancy with body and mind intact May grow up in neighborhoods where murder is the leading cause of death among people under 16? One out of every three main ever complete high school at 18. They may help swell the ranks of America's functional illiterate switch already totals and incredible 30 million people more than one in 10 Americans a relatively High proportion of these young people will go to prison becoming part of the rising number now more than 1 million. We find necessary to keep Behind Bars and incarceration rate. That makes us number one in the world. Once not all that long ago, we would have reflected on these Grim statistics and the millions of lives behind them and we would have found ways to demand that help be given because we thought it was the right thing to do. It was our national and our personal moral obligation many of us, I believe still feel that way but there's still another reason now to try to deal comprehensively with these problems and that is our own National Survival. How can we expect to survive the competition of an international economy when one seventh of our potential Workforce is lost to drugs when more families and children in the US are poor than in any of the world's other leading industrialized nations when we are the only Western democracy that has failed to provide an adequate social safety net for the majority of its poor. More than compassion argues for including this other America in our prosperity Common Sense demands it to all of us must recommit ourselves to the business of developing the greatest resource. The nation has its people How are we going to both keep our economy strong and our nation as a continuing example to the rest of the world? This isn't some grandiose ideal. It is in my mind the most pressing National practicality. And that brings me to my next point. Let's stop wasting time debating over who should take the lead and seeking Solutions whether it's up to the individual and the and private Enterprise or it's the responsibility of government. We've all heard the opposing arguments on one side are those who believe only government can do anything meaningful only government can stop the spread of homelessness and drug abuse and illiteracy. These people have a point government does have an important indispensable role to play. On the opposite side are those who assert that the best hope for America is in the efforts of individuals and private groups these people to have a point individual initiative and private Enterprise are an enduring basis of America's strength the problem with this debate as I see it is that it's almost always framed in terms of either or either individual and private Enterprise should solve our enormous social problems or government must to think of the challenges we face in this way isn't merely simplistic. It self defeating the either or that confronts us isn't between private initiative and government. It's between having the intelligence and the will to use all of the resources at our disposal or being so so short-sighted that we fail and thus compound our problems. The problems we face as a nation will require the best efforts of all of the sectors of our society and they will require both local and National leadership. We must work to create an environment that demands the best efforts of each of us as individuals and of all of our institutions public and private such an environment is essential if we are to have a healthy Society. In recent years there have been. many examples of local action nonprofit groups and local and state governments all across this nation have developed an astonishing array of programs that work programs and teen pregnancy prevention affordable housing childcare youth service job training and economic development and in virtually every other area needing national attention and often they've done so in partnership with each other and with the business sector Ford Foundation has supported many of these efforts in a variety of ways. Generally we help by working closely with individuals and organizations in the not-for-profit sector, but we also work closely with business and with government. In the 1980s as we all became aware of a new form of federalism the challenge of helping state and local governments address important social and economic issues in new ways took on a special urgency during the early 80s. We decided to try and find a way to recognize and encourage the extraordinary energy and Enterprise that many local and state governments were demonstrating. The idea is what we came up with is called Innovations and state and local government Awards each year some 25 programs are selected and 10 are chosen to receive Awards of up to $100,000 each to enhance and spread the word about successful Innovations. But although the winners get most of the press to me. It's really the nearly 2,000 programs that apply each year that all the real story the story of extraordinary individuals and towns and cities all across this nation who all share one ambition. They want their governments to work better the quality of these Innovations the range of problems, they address and the inventive means they have employed are a tribute to the creative spirit that is still alive and well in our country. To mention just a few in San Diego a city housing program is reversing the decline of single room occupancy units for low-income people and in the process helping to address the issue of homelessness in that town. In Kentucky the department of education's Parenthood and child education program has had an extraordinary success in stopping intergenerational cycles of illiteracy in rural areas, and they're doing it in a very simple and ingenious Way by combining adult education with early childhood development. In Iowa a novel use of debt management training has helped many Farm families stay in business during that states farm crisis in st. Louis the police department developed a way for officers to spend more time on patrol and less time filling out forms. They did it by designing a computer system that enables police to file crime reports by telephone and thus quickly return to their patrol responsibilities right here in the Twin Cities. The program is recognized several outstanding efforts. One by your own Police Department is fighting crime by analyzing computed generated data to diagnose the underlying problems in a specific area. St. Paul nursing program we recognized in 1986 began with one nurse wondering whether there might be a better way to care for the elderly than putting them in nursing homes. And you have the first the nation's first program that dispenses public assistance benefits through automated teller machines. Since then hundreds of senior citizens thousands of people in this community and Beyond have been benefited by these Innovative initiatives that are occurring at state and local levels. And I want to mention just one recent awardee program, which I think has particular power. It comes from the state of Maryland and it's called friends of the family. A few years ago Marilyn officials took stock of the state's child welfare system teen pregnancy and infant mortality rates were on the rise and more and more babies were being exposed to drugs Maryland decided to offer early help instead of trying to assist damaged Children and Families when it might be too late. The friends of the family initiative is the nation's first Statewide system of community-based family support centers for low-income families. They've just begun to measure and document the program's full Effectiveness. But already there are very encouraging results the repeat pregnancy rate for teen mothers who attend the center's is 20 percent below the national average 80% of the children who come to the center's get immunized 90% of the parents who come seeking more schooling like a high school equivalency diploma have obtained it and half of those who come to the center. They're unemployed get jobs within three months. I think it's a powerful example of what government and people can do when they combine their energies and determination and that brings me to my final point. We must start believing in ourselves again. In many ways. That's the hardest thing to talk about. perhaps because no people on earth have ever demonstrated a greater belief in the power of their Collective will Our greatness was forged out of the conviction that together Americans could do something about the suffering and Injustice in the world underlying the American experience has been the sense that there are solutions to proper to Poverty that there are solutions to racism our cities. Our rural areas can be helped. It's not just a matter of leaving it to fate or to the free market. However over the last decade we seem to have strayed from the belief that we can accomplish whatever we set our minds and our will to do we seem to have surrendered the kind of tenacity and ambition that have moved and inspired us for Generations. But in spite of that prevailing National malaise many people in areas all across our country have chosen to act on their own they demonstrated just what is possible when they pool their energies to save their communities. The Community Development movement is one of the most striking examples of that continued social progress albeit on much to limited scale and stunningly and example that exist despite a federal retreat. The movements most successful vehicle has been the Community Development Corporation or the CDC as we call them. A New York Times editorial earlier this year had this to say about Community Development corporation's cdc's have helped restore the Liberty City section of Miami after the riots in the early 1980s. They've replaced rubble and graffiti from five square miles of the South Bronx with new homes and parks in all they've produced more than 35,000 units of Housing and millions of square feet of commercial space indeed cdc's are now the biggest developers of low-income housing a sad commentary on Washington's puny efforts, but a ringing tribute to the resourcefulness of these Community (00:23:00) institutions (00:23:02) that lack of vigorous effort on the part of Washington. Let us and a number of other foundations to look for new ways to strengthen and support cdc's and to promote greater cooperation between them and the public and private sectors one crucial step in this was the establishment of national intermediaries aimed at assisting these development corporation's in their project financing in their technical needs and in accessing larger pools of capital. Liske is one prime example of this intermediary group. The Enterprise Foundation is another the structured employment Economic Development Corporation of seed cone is 1/3 the philosophy behind this strategy of building a community development support system has emphasized the importance of generating cooperation among a variety of groups and it rests on a belief that at some point our nation will turn back to its domestic needs and when it does these examples will be available to all of us as ways of more effectively achieving the development needs of all of our people. The idea of people from every sector of our society working together the idea of community empowerment those ideas are at the core of this development movement. And I know they are at the core of your ambitious new neighborhood revitalization program here in Minneapolis. Today we have in these local efforts and example that is squarely in the American tradition of communities shaping their Futures through their own Enterprise and hard work. What remains to be done is to convince the national policy makers of what the people already know. If we fail it will be a tragedy not only for the millions of Americans still excluded from Full opportunity and participation. But for all those who hope for a peaceful and prosperous America into the next century and beyond. To me true leadership offers a vision that excites and challenges each of us to our best effort it then calls us back to these tasks. When we stray I can think of no higher calling than to be challenged to help lead America closer to fulfilling its promise for all of its people and that is a calling each of us must be ready to answer each of us from every corner of our nation must help frame the national agenda its moral and it's practical components. With all of its problems the United States continues to be a place of immense vitality and energy we've proven it many times through a long history of facing our problems and finding Solutions. No one built this great and powerful Nation for us. We the people built it for ourselves four generations. We've had the intelligence and the good sense to widen the circle of opportunity drawing in the unique talents. We each possess. We have devised the programs and policies we needed and summoned the will to implement them. I believe we can do it again if we choose to What a wonderful Prospect to build a society that can fulfill its promise to all of its people and that can serve as an example to a world that is watching and waiting and hoping for an example that will help to guide it on its way. The power of these initiatives the power of the people who are at the source and core of their initiation and their implementation is a power that I feel each time. I travel around the country. And I am puzzled. And dismayed that that power which is so evident to me and to many of you in this room and that need which is so evident to me and to each of you in this room has yet to mount the national support that will produce the leadership. We need to make this the most pressing domestic agenda item. It is an opportunity. It is a need it is really a responsibility to our own history our own future and to the future of a world that is turned to us and said, okay, we believe you your system works better. Demonstrate it thank you. (00:28:25) Thank you. Mr. Thomas. We have a first question here from Karen Bachmann. Thank you very much for your remarks. Certainly education is one strategy. The communities are looking to towards a long-term solution to reduce poverty and crime and and some of the initiatives would involve experiments that would seem to be counter to steps that that have been taken in. The last decades examples being the creation of schools for black teenage boys or or the efforts to re-establish neighborhoods schools as a center of neighborhood development, and I'd be very interested in your comment our initiatives like this in your view a step forward or or should we be looking very carefully at them to make sure that we're not we're not setting back whatever progress has been made over the last few (00:29:15) decades. I think the initiatives you describe are in my mind a product of frustration. They are the product of people who have wrestled with the initiatives that have been pursued for the past decade and Beyond and have seen limited progress in reaching and motivating and stimulating the young people whom they are designed to assist so I look at most of the alternative models that are presented as reflecting much more the sense of frustration with the existing inadequacies, then a philosophy which says this is where we should place a substantial part of our resources. Instinctively, I would say that. Education that is going to be successful has to be premised on convincing young people that we genuinely value them that we believe in their capacity to learn. We believe in their capacity to contribute both to their own lives and to the lives of those around them and I think many of the high school models that you were alluding to are an attempt perhaps well guided perhaps misguided in some instances, but they are an attempt to find a way to make that communication link with the youngsters who were not otherwise reaching I would say if you can find a way of doing it which includes a recognition that we are building links among and between people not creating separate enclaves. As our goal. Then I say I'd say give it a try if it has as its driving force creating an enclave and a unique discrete separated entity. I would say look at it more cautiously. (00:31:21) Thank you. We have a question now from Howard self. Thank you. Mr. Thomas. What do you think of the efforts by Jack Kemp toward empowerment. That is the tenant Management Programs ownership Enterprise zones in the inner city and so on. (00:31:39) I'm a big supporter of those initiatives by secretary Kent and my personal frustration is that those initiatives have not been given broader National support by the administration. I've not talked to Jack about any frustration. He may be feeling but we're I in his place I would be feeling enormous frustration that ideas that are rooted in the very experiences. I was describing in my talk which are going on across the country and are rooted in the very fundamentals. We believe in as a people have thus far not enjoyed wide support from the administration at least not so that I've been able to detect (00:32:27) Thank you. Mr. Thomas. We have a question here from Joe sivaji. Oh. Thank you. (00:32:32) The debate that I run into in dealing with poor people is that half the society says that the solution is really to individual initiative and family and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. And the other half says that the problem is more with the dominant system that there's things that happen like Kevin Phillips says a hundred and fifty billion dollars a year ago got transferred to the upper 1% under the Reagan years and no federal policies have been there's been cuts to that. I guess where do you come down in the debate and if there's things in the dominant system that really hurt poor people you have more suggestions on how to correct those well as I mentioned in part of the talk, I think that is a essentially a distraction to get into the argument of who carries the dominant burden. I think the burden is at least equally shared between the need for individual initiative and the need for institutions in the dominant system to put forth affirmative effort on their own part as a personal guide. I will just tell you that anytime someone proposes an approach to problem solving of a serious problem which excludes an obligation on their own part. I become suspicious. And I think it's a very good guy because what are we struggling for? In terms of a good life was struggling for a an environment in which each of us as individuals and as institutions public and private is challenged to put forth our best effort to try and address these major problems the notion of Shifting the primary responsibility in One Direction or another I think is suspect now there's one place where it does seem to me. We all have a legitimate basis for looking in that is to the presidency. I think the highest elected official in the nation has to remind all of us whatever sector we come out of no matter what our political affiliations or interest maybe of the themes which are essential to the healthy growth and development of the country. You can argue at the margins as to how much ought to be allocated in which direction But the notion that the responsibility is not a shared one and that the leadership has to keep reminding and keep all of our feet to the fire is I think the sad reality of recent years. We have not had that in my opinion and we need (00:35:25) it. Thank you. Mr. Thomas. We have a question now from James Talon. Thank you. You perhaps began to answer my question. You make it seem that many of the problems that we Face are almost a political and unwilling to Lodge political blame why so and where do you see the political leadership coming from in the future to deal with these (00:35:49) problems? Well, I don't think the problems are necessarily a political because they derive from belief systems and office holders and office Seekers and the attitudes they express but I think I resist the notion of again saying it's the Republicans are it's the Democrats who are at fault simply because That sets in motion the argument over whose fault it is. And it impedes the discussion of given this as our problem. How do we best mobilize all of the resources in this country to get at solving this problem? I think the political parties and the contending candidates for various offices. Will they'll throw enough mud at each other? They don't really need me or you to get into that. What they need is some place to turn after the mud has been thrown and after one or another has been elected which says here is a strategy here is a way of functioning that is good for the nation. And you now having been elected to whatever office it is are no longer. We don't have a parliamentary system. You are not simply the leader of your party you now represent all of us. And these are the steps We the People. Will support because we understand they are needed and we expect you to (00:37:20) lead. Thank you. Mr. Thomas. You're listening to Franklin Thomas president of the Ford Foundation speaking to the Minnesota meeting on the station's of Minnesota Public Radio the next question here from Jim Krause. The question I'd like to raise is 10 of the example as I we looking at the symptoms and not the cause of the problem and I may be as a example. We see now in Eastern Europe with the change in the freedom. We also see an outbreak of violence and crime and drugs and so forth and which wasn't there before and it seems to me we have the blessing and also the problem with with freedom there's responsibility and value systems. And how do we get that you just says that we can't put all the all the all the responsibilities and the leader of the country or business or one sector. Everybody's take that responsibility. How do you bring that down into the system when we moved into a wide open Society wide-open values on whatever relationships we want personal values personal beliefs. We have a real dilemma, and I think that's kind of the area. You should address. (00:38:36) Well, I don't disagree that we need to address the issue of values. But I would say to you that there are some enduring principles that we can all take some comfort in and live by do unto others as you would have them do unto you as one good one to start with a belief in the equality of the human person and whatever packaging that person comes in. A commitment to a system of law and Justice that is informed by some of these basic tenants and beliefs. They ultimately become the only anchor a free people can rely upon because if a majority is all it takes to ascend to political power you have to have in place some system of minimum protections of both Liberty and opportunity for those who are not in power. Those are as essential and fundamental in our system as in the system's now emerging in other parts of the world. The other thing I'd say is that I don't personally accept the notion that with the lifting of the repressive yolk from many of these societies that suddenly these problems have been created these problems were obviously they're the debilitation of the individual was obviously there. We now know more about it. There is more outspoken this with respect to these differences and there is a risk of that outspokenness fracturing into civil and Political violence as we're seeing in some parts of the world, but the alternative to that it seems to me is not repression but values and the rule of law and the extent to which we can encode Kate those across the globe using the United Nations using the international covenants using the belief systems that exist in all nations. I think the better chance we'll have to attenuate some of the violence and the propensity to spiral out of control. (00:40:57) Just a quick follow-up just to follow up and get something National debate what your if I would take what you're saying to to have some value system raises the next issue in other words natural law. Is there a natural law that we should abide by now that we've heard enough about that and most people understand it. But without if you're going to throw out natural law, what do you have left? Who's going to Define these values other than the majority and I think that that gets down to issue we're talking about (00:41:30) today. Well, why don't you start with the constitution in this country? Well and with the Bill of Rights what what determines concert National human rights covenants which exists you don't have to start from scratch because these things exist and if we could live within their tenants we'd take a giant step forward to a more Humane world. (00:41:52) Thank you. Our next question now is from John calls. Mr. Thomas, I think everyone would have pretty much would agree that the use of drugs and drug addiction is a serious problem in our society as well as other countries and some people think that efforts to reduce this problem educational and other sorts of efforts won't really be effective until the profit motive is eliminated from the drug business. and the most direct and way to eliminate the profit motive is to decriminalize or legalize the drug business much as alcohol business was after the experiment of prohibition was legalized once again under supervision, but legalized what thoughts do you have on that notion (00:42:56) personally and as a foundation we have Been supporting a major line of work aimed at trying to better understand drug policy in our country and in the world to come up with understandings that will enable us to make good choices with respect to the supply and availability of drugs and things which will work on affecting the demand side of that equation as part of that work and accompanying it. We've also supported a number of Scholars who are examining the question of decriminalization and trying to understand what has happened in other countries where this has been tried. What is happening today? What are the pluses? What are the - is how do you regulate it if you adopted as it for all substances or only certain substances Etc. I think the Premise on which all of this rests is that when you have a problem that is as pervasive and debilitating as this one. We shouldn't reject out of hand any potentially credible approach to this problem of that includes needing to know more about decriminalization. I'm not persuaded by the simple statement that taking the profit motive out will dramatically reduce the demand side of this it may have something to do in terms of impact on the violence associated with the trafficking but whether it will have an impact on the demand side in the direction we would all want is not at all clear to me most of the scholarship. I've seen suggests that following decriminalization of certain substances. Use in fact goes up for a period of time not clear how much Bility that data has but it's certainly a cause for any person to pause before we simply embrace the decriminalization effort. Similarly those who would argue that. Decriminalization is out of the question because of the inevitable rise and continued sustained rise in consumption. They ought to be cautious about that as well until we have more of the data in so we're supporting work tracking each of those initiatives looking at the drug Control Systems both where it's grown where it's processed how it's transported how its distributed in this country looking at the demand side and how to get at reducing demand and thirdly looking at the decriminalization argument and trying to put some flesh around it based on the experiences of other countries and our own experience looking back over the last hundred and fifty years. (00:45:49) Thank you. You are listening to Franklin Thomas president of the Ford Foundation speaking to the Minnesota meeting on the station's of Minnesota Public Radio. We have a question here from Dave teslo. First of all, thank you for joining us here in our beautiful state of Minnesota and we'd like to have the Ford Foundation send a lot more money to Minnesota possible (00:46:08) hear (00:46:09) your comments were certainly most provocative, but I would like to hear your comment further on the welfare system. It seems in many instances that our welfare system seems to exacerbate the problem interesting yesterday in the national news radio broadcast. I heard leader in an eastern states ending saying that we now send all of our young working adults to Six States to gather welfare because most states can no longer afford to pay that Minnesota being one of the six states that there are sending these young working adults do (00:46:40) well, I think the I would refer you to a report that the foundation sponsored came out last year called the common good which is an attempt to look systematically at our social Protection Systems in the United States to see the how they are working and on whose behalf. They're working where they're not working. And what changes are suggested that work is the product of a national panel that worked for about four years with Scholars and practitioners and everyday folk participating in that work. It's produced about 30 separate publishable. Treatise on aspects of the welfare system and I think the the essence of the report says that we have to think of the welfare system as a Continuum from birth to death that some people tap into a different points in their lifetime based on their circumstance and that is not a stigma which need the attached to someone who has a need and whose need is to be addressed through the (00:48:00) system (00:48:02) the problem that many have found with the way many of the welfare programs are working across the country is that they tend often unintentionally to be a disincentive to those with Enterprise. If you are getting x amount as a an award and you have the Ingenuity and the energy To earn some money through providing a service to a neighbor or what have you the thought that those incremental earnings would have a direct negative impact on the support base that the welfare system provides has in the minds of many worked as a strong disincentive both to work and to honesty that is to honestly report your circumstance some argue. It's worked as a disincentive to family formation and the continuation of families because the presence of A another adult is often a signal to the existing system that you are entitled to less than you otherwise would be receiving. Most of the experiments going on across the country looking at welfare systems and ways of improving them and altering them is happening at the state level. There are tracking and evaluation efforts underway some of which we support to try and glean some intelligence from this experience about what works what works with which problems and how might those systems either be altered in order to be more effective or corrected in order to address some known deficiency or scrapped entirely where that seems to be called for, you know, the welfare system goes back to 1933 it was The introduction of Social Security in 1933 and the Roosevelt administration which really launched this program and it was a time of enormous National need it was also a time of national jobs to address infrastructure needs and to put the population back to work those programs have been grafted on over the years and very little evidence of a systematic relook can be found. This study. I alluded to the common good is one such fundamental relook and I commend it to (00:50:37) you. Thank you. We have a question now from art Erickson. (00:50:44) You spoke to government and the private sector in addressing Urban problems. Where would you see the role of churches Parish churches and other volunteer organizations in the mix and in moving toward the solutions. Well, I I see churches and volunteer organizations as a central. Actor in all of this many of those institutions and ones formed by them are really at the core of the development agenda in this country. They are close to where problems are experienced. They are in touch with the people who are most directly affected by these problems. They often have the most intelligence and the best intelligence about effective ways of addressing these problems. They are key actors and in order to facilitate that role and enhance it we have as a foundation being aggressively pursuing the secular role of the church in trying to strengthen it and enhance it and acquainted with many of the development ideas and micro-enterprise ideas and housing both its creation management and operation that exist across the country because we see Volunteer organizations and churches as enduring institutions within communities whose stake is deeply rooted and whose interest and attention will not Wane with the passing of time. So they are Central actors in all of the work we see and support