(00:00:00) assalamualaikum Bismillah ar-rahman ar-rahim I am greatly honored to have this opportunity to be here today at this seminar, which it has taken. A lot of people very dedicated people a lot of work to put together. The subject that has been assigned to me is Muslims in America, which is a very broad subject. It is obviously not possible in the time allocated to me to deal with all aspects of this subject. So what I shall Endeavor to do is to share with (00:00:43) you (00:00:45) some information and some Reflections, which I think are pertinent to our understanding of how Muslims are feeling and thinking (00:00:54) today (00:00:57) in the in the World At Large and particularly in the United States. Some of the challenges that are confronting them and are confronting the Americans American society in general and some of the things that I think need to be need to be reflected on very seriously by all people of faith. By the year 2000 one out of every four persons on the planet will be a Muslim. Within a couple of decades Muslims will form the majority of the population in the Soviet Union. With the breakup of the Communist Bloc Muslims will become the other block that the capitalist West will have to deal with in the foreseeable future. Islam is reported to be the second largest religion in the United States, and the number of its adherence is growing fast, especially amongst African-Americans. These are amongst the many reasons why it is imperative that westerners in general and Americans in particular. understand Islam and (00:02:08) Muslims (00:02:11) the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 the Iranian Revolution of 1979 and the recent crisis in the Middle East and the Gulf area has raised much interest in Islam and Muslims in the United States a large number of seminars conferences and symposia have been held to discuss the meaning and implications of various aspects of Islam in particular what the Western media calls Islamic fundamentalism. One would imagine that all these activities might lead to a better understanding of Islam and Muslims. Unfortunately, however, this is far from being the case. Most of the discussions on Islam have been conducted within an environment that is made up of negative perceptions of Muslims deriving from age-old conscious or unconscious hatred and fear of Islam the view of Islam held by an average American who may be unaware of having any bias is shaped nevertheless by what Professor Edward side has called crisis reporting in other words. The average American has no notion whatsoever of how an ordinary Muslim lives his or her daily life what they whatever notion they have of Muslims comes from their being their lives being reported or some aspect or some event being reported in the context of some ongoing crisis. Islam and Muslims are seldom presented in the United States simply as they are but almost always in the context of some perceived threat to the Western way of life. This manner of presenting Islam or Muslims adopted not only by mass media reporters, but also by many so-called experts on Islam derives from and feeds into the deep reservoir of anti-islamic myths that have become a part of the collective unconscious of the West since the 7th century when Islam began to be seen as a formidable challenge to the world of Christendom. Americans as a whole unlike the British for instance do not have much sense of the living presence of Muslims, even though Muslims have long been coming to this country. Probably Muslims were among the slaves brought from West Africa to the American South in the 18th and 19th centuries since it was not possible for enslaved Muslims to practice Islam. There are Islamic identity was lost in the course of time. The first clearly identifiable group of Muslims to settle in the United States were from the Middle East between 1875 and 1912. These immigrants were from what is now Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. And belong to the lower economic and educational strata of society. Aspiring to attain material Prosperity many of them settled near industrial centers earning their living by working in factories or mines or by peddling and small-scale trading. There were three further waves of Muslim immigration to North America. The first came in the decade before the second World War. The second between 1947 and 1960 and the third between 1967 and the present (00:05:41) time. (00:05:44) Among the later immigrants were Muslims for many regions including Egypt Yemen, India Pakistan the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. while many of the Muslims who immigrated to the United States since the middle of this century It was just a high level of education and Professional Training others have also come from the semi-skilled working classes. Many immigrant Muslims feel alien in the American environment even though they may have lived in it for many years and regarded as their home. Part of this alienation is due to the fact that most Muslim immigrants come from non-western cultures. And find it difficult if not impossible to submerge their cultural as well as their religious identity in the American Melting Pot. Some feel that it is a form of idolatry to Absolute eyes americanism, especially when what is deemed to be essentially American shows ethnic religious cultural class and gender biases. The anti-islamic anti-arab biases which seemed to color the collective imagination not only of the American mass media but also of the American government and a significant portion of the American public what revealed to the Muslims and or Arab Israeli Arabs living in the United States in a highly dramatic way during the Gulf War. While the majority of the Muslims in the world including those in the United States did not endorse the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait many felt the Bush Administration had its own agenda in hastening to the aid of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia many were dismayed when the Bush Administration rejected any initiative offered by Saddam Hussein to solve the crisis politically without so much as a moment's serious consideration. As time went on between August 2nd and January 15th, it became increasingly clear to Muslims and Arabs that the Bush Administration was determined to have a military Showdown with (00:08:04) Iraq. (00:08:06) The bombardment of Baghdad which began therefore on January 16th should therefore have been no surprise. However, the ruthlessness and relentlessness with which the air campaign against virtually defenseless araki's was conducted. The over 95,000 are sought he's dropping more TNT on Iraq then had been dropped on Japan in 1945 left Muslims aghast. Those of us who lived in the United States. What's the systematic destruction of a Muslim Nation day after day night after night while the American Media and many Americans watched the tragedy as if it were a football match or a video game. It is not possible to describe the trauma of those 45 days only those who have lived through a holocaust can understand it. millions of Muslims across the world protested vehemently against the massive destruction of Iraq and the Iraqi people To liberate Kuwait was wanting to destroy Iraq quite another. As the United States LED forces continue to destroy the infrastructure of a Muslim country bombing not only every road and every bridge but also shelters for civilians and other non-military related facilities. The masses of Muslims became more and more incensed at the callousness of the so-called Allied Forces. It was clear to many Muslims in the United States and elsewhere that Western Powers leading. The Coalition would have never dare to bomb any white country the way it had bombed you mad Japan and now Iraq the racist element involved in the in the war was very evident and extremely difficult to live with the fact that during military briefings. It was possible for a US general to compare the Iraqis to termites who were ready to be mopped up by the superior technology of the Western countries underscored the contempt, which the Western Colonial Powers have exhibited toward Muslims and Arabs whom they colonized between the 17th and the 20th century. Bitter as the memories of the colonial period were for the Muslims of the world the events which unfolded between January 16th and the end of the war when the US forces continue to bombard the retreating Iraqi Soldiers made Muslims everywhere aware of how little their lives or what they stood for meant to those in power in the United States. The war may have ended for some when the military hostilities ceased, but for Muslims in the world and in the United States a deep crisis persists. This crisis has much to do with the question of loyalty and identity. Many Muslims in the world living in countries, which have been long Ally to the United States have a profound sense of betrayal at the way in which role reversal happens in the Cowboy versus Indian game which mr. Reagan initiated and mr. Bush perfected in the White House. Saddam Hussein was the good guy until last summer. Then he suddenly becomes Hitler who must at all costs even that of killing from between 100,000 to 1 million Iraqis be removed. Few who wash the ferocity and relentlessness with with the campaign to to demonize Saddam Hussein was conducted for several months would have found it possible to believe that within the space of a few days after the ceasefire fire when faced with a threat of the so-called Shiite fundamentalist of Southern Iraq, Saddam Hussein was going to be declared by the US Administration to be caught the lesser of the two (00:11:59) evils. (00:12:02) And allowed to remain in power. If the change in US policy towards Saddam Hussein is to be worked out to the end in terms of its own logic. It would seem to be implying that quote unquote Hitler is a lesser evil than Islamic fundamentalism. The fear of Islamic fundamentalism is in and in fact, the identification of Islam with fundamentalism is something which requires serious investigation by thinking persons in the United States. Even a summary review of the way in which the West in general and American Media in particular used the term fundamentalism with reference to Islam shows that this term is the equivalent of emotionally loaded terms such as extremism fanaticism and even (00:12:54) terrorism. (00:12:56) For instance when most Americans read an expression, which has appeared countless times in Daily newspapers namely the fundamentalist Shiites of Southern Lebanon. They assume that the Shiites in question about whom they probably know very little if anything are extremists Fanatics or even terrorists That's the tone fundamentalist. When used by the West with reference to Muslim leaders or groups clearly embodies a negative value judgment and evokes a powerful image of persons who are irrational immoderate and violent. While the term fundamentalist may be relatively new the image is that of a ferocious looking Arab wearing is Flowing white robe riding a white charger and flashing a say saber has a long history and derives from the Christian West age-old perceptions of the prophet of Islam and of Islam for instance Dante the great poet of medieval Christianity perceived the prophet Muhammad as a coat bloody figure who divided the world of Christendom and assigned to him all but the lowest level of hell for his Grievous sin. His description of the Prophet Muhammad is not easily forgotten. This is from The Inferno in The Divine Comedy and I caught a wine ton when a stable can't bar starts does not split open as wide as one I saw split from his chin to the mouth with which man farts between his leg all of his legs. All of his red guts hung with the heart the lungs the liver the gallbladder and the shriveled sacs that passes shit to the bunk. I stood and stared at him from the stone shelf. He noticed me and opening his own breast with both hands quite see how I rip myself see how Muhammad's mangled and split (00:14:45) open. (00:14:48) Alas many westerners who know virtually nothing about Islam still identify it with holy war which it is important to note is not an accurate or adequate rendering of the quranic concept of jihad. It is rather a Christian term associated with the Crusades. Even those westerners who know that one of the primary meaning meanings of the very word Islam is peace seldom focus on the centrality of the concept of peace to the Islamic world view images of Muslims as barbarous and backward frenzied and fnatic volatile and violent continue to pervade Western consciousness. The terms fundamentalism and fundamentalists have been used extensively in the 1980s to epitomize the negative image of Islam and Muslims prevalent in the West. Many if not, most who used the term fundamentalism and fundamentalist as if they were generic categories with universal applicability do not know or have forgotten the particular Christian Concept in which these terms are owes the term fundamentalism with the shorter Oxford English Dictionary dates to 1923 emerged in the wake of the publication between 1900 and five and Nineteen Hundred and fifteen of twelve theological tracks entitled The fundamentals are testimony to the truth these writings by biblical literalists denounced the adoption of other Protestant theologians by other Protestant theologians of a scientific critical approach to the study of the Bible as George Marsden has pointed out fundamentalism is a subspecies of Angelica lism the term originated in America in 1920 and refers to evangelic olds who consider it their Chief Christian duty to combat uncompromisingly modernist theology. And certain secularizing cultural Trends organized militancy is the feature that most clearly distinguishes fundamentalists from other evangelic oils. The fact that the term fundamentalism and fundamentalist do not apply to Islam can be seen by by a review of several writings. While many westerners as well as easterners under the influence of the West have come to apply the terms fundamentalism or fundamentalist to all kinds of phenomena or persons. There is no logical or theological reason why any person non-Christian or even Christian needs to accept this use as necessary or as mandated by heaven. In fact, the uses of Highly emotive words such as fundamentalism or fundamentalist outside their proper historical setting is strongly to be discouraged. For it brings about not Enlightenment, but multiple forms of confusion and discrimination. The feminist movement has been insistent that sexist language be discarded because it leads not only to bias and Injustice in this or that matter pertaining to man-woman discourse or relationship, but also to the formation of what Mary Daly describes as quote a universe of sexist suppositions likewise, it is essential in my judgment to eliminates terms such as fundamentalism and fundamentalist from the discourse of inter-religious dialogue, since they do not only smack of religious and cultural imperialism, but also create a negatively charged atmosphere in which authentic dialogue cannot take place. That note term corresponding to what fundamentalism or fundamentalist means in the west has traditionally existed in various Islamic languages demonstrates. That such concepts are not integral or organic to the Islamic world view, but are outside categories, which have been grafted onto an Islamic development. Though the Arabic were term whose soul is used to refer to a fundamental or a principal. The term fundamentalism has no relevance for Muslims. There is no term in any Islamic languages. In fact, which corresponds to the word (00:18:59) fundamentalism. (00:19:02) Muslims who know the English language and interpret the term fundamentalism literally that is that is as relating to fundamentals would have little or no problem referring to themselves as fundamentalist since they do with few exceptions believe in the fundamentals of Islam set forth in the Quran in passages such as Surah Surah 2, which is al-baqarah verse 177 which reads as follows. It says it is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards east or west but it is righteousness to believe in God and the last day and the angels and the books and The Messengers to spend of your substance out of love of God for your cane for Orphans for the needy for the Wayfarer for those who ask and for The Ransom of slaves to be steadfast in prayer and practise regular charity and fulfill the contracts which you have made and to be firm and patient in pain and suffering and adversity and Go out all times of panic such are the people of Truth the God-fearing. From the perspective of many Muslims there for a discussion on Islamic fundamentalism should be about the fundamentals of Islam. And the answer to the question is Islamic fundamentalism good or bad should be based on an objective evaluation of the fundamentals of Islam. In other words if these fundamentals are deemed to be good then Islamic fundamentalism should be deemed to be good on the other hand. If Islamic fundamentals are deemed to be bad. Then Islamic fundamentalism is obviously bad. In the west generally. However, the very term Islamic fundamentalism triggers of a host of negative associations many of them deriving from age old stereotypes of Islam and the remaining deriving from ideas and images attached to fundamentalism by Western Christians prominent among these associations is the perception that most fundamentalist Muslims are Ultra zealous narrow-minded persons who tend to interpret the Quran literally and to implement its teaching by force if necessary. These Muslims are seen as backward because they are out of step with modernity not only in the way in which they treat read sacred texts, but also in the way in which they disregard the separation of religious from secular or church and state to use Christian terms. It is evident from all that has happened in recent history that though between 5 to 10 million Muslims live in the North American continent knowledge of Islam and Muslims Islam entirely lacking in most places and amongst most people living in this area. This is the major cause for the Persistence of the negative stereotypes of Muslims, which in turn lead to the development of negative attitudes (00:21:53) toward towards Muslims. (00:21:55) The only way that this sad and alarming situation can begin being remedied is through a systematic campaign to educate the American people about Islam and Muslims this education campaign must begin at the level of elementary school and be continued through higher levels of Education alongside with this educational campaign must come the effort made by conscientious persons particularly from amongst the Jewish Christian and Muslim Traditions to promote dialogue amongst. (00:22:28) He (00:22:28) runs of the three abrahamic faiths. Dialogue by its very nature is a slow process but if pursued with earnestness and determination, it does lead to the transformation of the character not only of individuals but also of societies for instance in the decades following the Holocaust of Jews in World War II the development of jewish-christian dialogue in various places in the west has led by and large to a drastic reduction in the if not elimination of anti-Semitism of previous centuries. In the United States of today live a variety of Muslims citizens residents students and visitors from a number of different countries and cultures. Most of the Muslims come to the United States because they look upon this country as a land of Freedom where they can actualize their human potential without the fear of being prohibited or inhibited by diverse forms of authoritarianism, which they encounter in their societies of birth. These Muslims have contributed much to the society but are capable of contributing much more if they felt that the American society in general understood and respected the religion and culture which is a part of their heritage. While many of them are willing to learn American ways and Customs they are not willing to be put into the Melting Pot and emerge from it diverse divested of all that is particularly. There's their faith their culture their language their symbolism and the like I think it is very it is vitally important for Americans in general to see what large benefits would accrue to American society if it were to open its heart and soul to The Message of Islam. As it is embodied in the Quran and the lives of those who strive to live in accordance with the will and pleasure of (00:24:28) God. (00:24:31) The model of Islam which has come to exist in a number of Muslim societies today, which the West identifies wrongly as Islamic fundamentalism. As I have tried to demonstrate earlier. Unfortunately represents a very flawed picture of Islam because it is characterized by a lack of breadth and vision by bigotry intolerance by reaction toward the west. But a total inability to critique itself. Here I would like to digress a little bit for a moment and and to say a few things about how I perceive the general situation in Muslim societies to be (00:25:14) today. (00:25:16) Muslims suffered tremendously at the hands of the colonial powers during the colonial period when the colonial Powers left these (00:25:25) countries. They did two (00:25:28) things which had a lasting impact one is that they drew all sorts of (00:25:32) lines (00:25:34) whether on the sand or otherwise for instance. I come from Pakistan Pakistan was carved out of India During the period of the British Raj when the British were leaving, India. And the way that the countries were physically created created a series of unending problems. For instance Pakistan Depends for its life upon its Five Rivers the sources of all, the five rivers are in India. So really the lifeline of Pakistan has been put in the in the hands of India which with which Pakistan has fought three regular Wars and with whom it has been in a continuing state of tension. (00:26:14) It is (00:26:15) it is very important for Americans to realize in general what has been the impact of these sorts of unfair divisions the British policy of divide and Rule has permeated every aspect of our society and our culture and we are still trying to find out the ways in which we were divided and how we overcome those divisions when these Colonial Powers left the colonized Muslim countries. They left some people whom who are sometimes referred to in history as the collaborators. You know, if you think about British rule in India, you wonder how a handful of civil servants with the assistance of a few soldiers could have controlled could have ruled over such a vast territory because India is almost a continent. Well, they did it with the help of hand-picked people who were called the collaborators and these became the elite class and in all of the Islamic countries. There is this (00:27:10) Elite Class the (00:27:12) the mm so loads of Saudi Arabia the alphas of Kuwait the 22 families who rule over Pakistan and in every country it is the same story. It's a few families who rule over these countries. This is our political Elite which has all the power and all the money. Now in addition to these Elites there was another Elite that came subsequently to exist. This is the elite. I called the intellectual Elite. These are people who are very well educated many of them in the best institutions in this country who know all the ways of social analysis that the best social scientists know in this country and yet they do absolutely nothing to help the masses of their people. Why not because they are the collaborators of the collaborators. Now what you have to understand is the following in this was demonstrated very graphically during the Gulf War that in all of the Islamic countries without exception the masses of the people in in in great numbers millions of people every day were protesting in the streets constantly. Now this is over ninety percent of the people in these countries. These are the these are the Muslims who really count in the (00:28:23) world, okay? (00:28:26) They were protesting against. Western imperialism and colonialism and the devastation of an Iraqi of a Muslim people But they were powerless to do anything because they are they are controlled totally by these two Elites at the top. Now it was very interesting and very very strange. Also when the Bush Administration kept referring to the fact that they had the support of all these Muslim countries because actually as a matter of fact the only people who supported them were these Elite classes and as a matter of fact a few people the fact that Hosni Mubarak supported the Bush Administration does not mean that the Egyptian people (00:29:06) supported Hooser the the Bush Administration (00:29:10) and the American people were totally misled by the America by the administration given which gave them to think that the masses of Muslims are supporting this this war because that is absolutely and entirely untrue Now what is happening in the Islamic countries is that we have the masses of people who are in the grips of unbelievable power T and ignorance and (00:29:34) superstition. But (00:29:38) all the resources are controlled by these few (00:29:41) people. Who are at the top? (00:29:44) Now when a young person is born in the society, are you and by the way more than 50 percent of the entire population of the Muslim countries is below the age of 20. So we (00:29:57) have a lot of young people to think (00:29:58) about when these people raised their open their eyes what this see what are the alternatives to see in front of (00:30:05) them? Okay, (00:30:07) there is no opportunity for Education. There is no opportunity for development. There's really nothing they must take into at all because these countries are the government's are so vastly corrupt. ISO VAR T self-serving that an ordinary person doesn't have a chance to do anything to be anything to get anywhere. So they have really two Alternatives in front of them on the one hand. There is what I call particularly in the context of Pakistan what I call the drug and Clashing of culture, you know, these handmade Russian guns, which everybody in Pakistan has now thanks to the american-soviet policy over. The Afghan war in Pakistan is the incidental victim as Lebanon was the incidental victim of what was going on between you know, the the because of the palestinian-israeli question. Because when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan America wanted to use Pakistan has a condo 8482 the mujahideen so Pakistan for while became very important. Now the situation is that the war is over the Soviets have gone home, but they are two million of our near ones living in Pakistan with no intention to go home and we have our country is full of guns and drug and drugs and the Karachi which was the best city. We had has become another bayreuth with shooting going on during all times of the day and night and so on. If you belong to one of the cities of one of these countries, you would understandably understand the the bitterness and anger that I am expressing at (00:31:34) this point. (00:31:36) No, so the young person in these countries has either they choose to go in this culture of drugs and violence or the only other option. They have are these so-called religious right people mullahs who are semi educated. We have a very narrow very limited understanding of Islam. But they are the only people who seem to have any kind of program of action or any principle or who seem to fight corruption in any fashion. So that is the reason why more and more young people in these countries are going toward that (00:32:14) path. now (00:32:17) You know, the Americans are terrified of what they call Islamic fundamentalism and they want to fight it any other way, but they don't try to make the slightest effort to understand the causes underlying all of these things. So the challenge that confronts the average American the average conscientious thinking Americans, especially an American who is a believing American is to understand the underlying underlying causes for what is going on in the Islamic World, which is in the state of (00:32:43) great term. Well, okay, (00:32:45) but the challenge that underlies the that that that confronts the Muslims Living in America and this is really the major point that I (00:32:53) would like to make today (00:32:55) is that They have to recreate or restore that vision of Islam which had made Islam once a great civilization. If you look at the early history of Islam, you would find that Islam arising in the Arabian Peninsula the first Islamic Society being created in 632 in Medina that within a hundred years. It had created an Empire which stretched stretched from Spain to India, but it is not the territorial expansion of these namik Empire that I want to talk about. It is the high level of civilization that it created because these early Muslims were pioneers and Science in philosophy in art in architecture. It was the Arabs who had rediscovered Aristotle brought him back into Europe who became the precursors of the European Renaissance the 800 years that Muslims were ruling over Spain with the golden age. Not only for Muslims but also for the Jewish people, it's very ironic that those same periods are described as the Dark Ages and books on Western Civilization. Nobody asked the question dark ages for home. (00:33:59) Okay. (00:34:01) Not only am I talking about those times? But also in the 19th and 20th Century between 1850 and 1950. There was an Islamic Renaissance in many Islamic countries, including India and Egypt and turkey and so on and during this period again, we had a large number of very creative people who were not only critical of the West for its imperialistic policies, but they were for more critical of the Muslims themselves for becoming colonized for their internal weaknesses and were attempting to address them. Islam in its ideal form and in the form in during those historical periods when it has actually been implemented has been a very open religion it has been pluralist. It has been affirming of cultural diversity. It has been affirming of diversity of opinion during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad great emphasis was put on the fact that it was okay to be different. If you go to the mosque of the prophet in Medina outside, the mosque are near written the names of the of his companions and amongst these names their shines in in unending Glory the name of baral Hibachi. We'll all the black man from Ethiopia Salman Farsi Salman the man from Iran and so on the early Muslims were very proud of cultural diversity. They were very proud also the fact that they were so many diverse opinions that were heard and were taken into account. Something happened in the period of decline which Muslims went through for almost a thousand years because in that period of Decline and in any period of decline people become conservative, they become narrow minded they become insecure and the Muslims went through that period and during that period they developed this very narrow understanding of Islam and they developed this very strange concept of what they call the Sharia which is which they understood as a very Narrows Reggie rigid set of rules, which was exclusive of any kind of diversity which meant ever all the Muslims must be the same and they must follow follow this very narrow path, which they thought was Aslam. I think that is the challenge of today is for is for Creative Muslims Muslim intellectuals, especially in the west especially in the United States to confront that and to and to restore the ideal Islam the vision of an ideal Islam as it was and as it is always capable of being because if we were able to create a model of Islam, which is in Conformity with the spirit of the Quran and the life of the Prophet, then we would be able to get rid ourselves of this endless cycle of violence in which we have gotten ourselves because it's I am greatly distressed by the fact that we both the west and Americans and the Muslims have got into this. Mindset of reactionary attitudes you hit me today and I'm going to hit you tomorrow and you know, I violate your rights today and you will violate my rights tomorrow and it goes on and on and on endless cycle of hatred and fear and insecurity and terrorism of all sorts. I think what the Muslims need to realize today is that they are not going to become become Strong by means of acquiring weapons and bombs, but bye. True moral intellectual and Spiritual Development and that if they if they were able to return to the original Spirit of Islam that not only would they become much stronger than they have been in several centuries, but that they would make the world a much better place to live for everybody because as I said in the very beginning of my presentation in the decades to come there are these two blocks large blocks of people the world is going to be reconstituted differently now and then we will have the capitalist West and we will have these comic world and whether we like it or not these two large groups of people are going to have to live together. Now the question that we have to ponder today is what are the terms on which they are going to live together. Are they going to live together in hatred and and in terms of Exploitation where Superior technology can clobber the weaker people of the world or are we going to try to Institute a different order of things? I think it is very important to affirm that both in the Islamic tradition and in the Jewish tradition, and if I understand correctly, even the Christian tradition the Supreme mandate, which is given to believe in people is to is to construct a just Society. And Justice cannot be attained. You cannot have a just Society till all the inequities and inequalities are eliminated. This means that one has to eliminate racism and classism and sexism and every other kind of slavery and inequality. That is the challenge which confronts all of us today that we have to strive together to work together to eliminate these injustices and to strive together to create a just world. I find a lot of support for what I am saying in my study of the Quran and in my experience of dialogue over many years and it is my prayer that we will find the courage and the strength and the and the heart to work together to to attend the school. Thank you very much. (00:40:02) With regards to your first question. Let me Begin by saying that I have been very much very interested in investigating the relationship between the Muslims and the people of the book as I have been in dialogue with Jews and Muslims for over a decade and a half and I have spent a considerable amount of time studying the quranic passages which relate to the people of the book who are the Jews and the Christians and I would like to point out some rather interesting facts to you which are not generally known even to the Muslims. I'm very interested in particular in talking about the relationship or the view that the Quran itself takes of the Jewish people. Now, there is a popular myth which exists not only amongst the Muslims but also and perhaps primarily among the Christians, which is that it's okay to say that Jews were the chosen people once but the brutal love affair between God and the children of Israel is over. And I was I was interested to see if in fact the quranic text warrants that sort of statement. What I discovered was that a good portion of the Quran a very significant portion of the Quran is either addressed to the Jews. Ya bani Israel or it is about the Jews. This in itself is very interesting because if indeed the brutal of a fear of God and the children of Israel is over, why is the Quran so concerned about the Jews? Now it is undoubtedly true part of what you were saying that there are some very negative statements in the Quran about the Jews. The God is the Quran is describing the Jews as ungrateful as being forgetful of the mercy of God toward them of the way that God has liberated the Jews so many times from various forms of forms of bondage and so on that is true. But if you look at all of the quranic passages in a systematic way, you find for instance Surah al-baqarah the second chapter much of which is about the Jews. Yeah that it is saying to the Jews. It's a direct form of address again addressing them as ya bani Israel. It is saying to them that and talking to them not in the past in the present tense, but not in the past tense, but in the present tense saying that you know, you did this and this and this and also telling them that they were forgetful of the Covenant and so and so and then going on to say but now means from here on established regular chair. D establish regular prayer and so on. So the Quran is giving to the Jewish people what Muslims would call hidayah or guidance. It means how they should live from here on so I do not think the quranic text at all supports the point of view that the that God has abandoned the Jews or that God does not have any relationship with the Jews and I think that that fact has many many implications there is much less. In fact about the Christians in the Quran then about the Jews. There's much more about the juice it is true that it is there is a statement that you talked about that the Jews are that the Jews that they were some of the Christians are closer in Friendship to the Muslim then some of the Jews I think it is very important also to remember the historical context of a lot of these passages because in during the the time of that the first Islamic society was being established the first Islamic society was established in Medina and Hundred and twenty-two in the following years. There was a major conflict or they were in fact several conflicts between these this embryonic Muslim Community and the Jewish communities tribes in Medina, and this conflict has had all sorts of repercussions on Islamic history. Now, what happens is you see what sometimes instead of looking at a historical conflicts in a historical period in and try to analyze them in terms of the immediate causes. We tend to generalize every time it Trent we tend to think in this way. For example from the Muslim side Muslim say well look at what is used it to our profit during the time of the During the period of Medina. He was so kind he was so compassionate to them and look how they betrayed him every time after signing the constitution of Medina which required them to defend the city against attack which required them to participate in the defense of the city. They every time they sided with Operation against the Muslims so and then they go on say these Jews did that at that time and they will always do the same likewise on the Jewish side, which is look at what these Muslims did to the Jewish tribes and Medina. This is what they did then and this is what they will always do see if we if we make the future Hostage to the past. If we argue if you think that history of the past is determinate of the future, there's no hope then we would then we are indeed lost and we all tend to do that. And what I think we have to do is first of all, we have to read the text very carefully because Muslims and Jews are in fact the two people of the book because the book matters a lot to both the Jews of the and the Muslims and in fact, I don't think that the book is saying what most Muslims and Jews think that it is saying first of all, I'd say that secondly we have to have a different attitude toward history. We have to look at history and not mythologize it and not romanticize it but look at it for what it is. Well what it tells us. And the your second question was about talking too much about about politics. I really think in general that that both the Muslims and the Jews have a very important role to play in the modern world because both of these religions have put their Prime emphasis on social justice on the creation of just societies, which I think is is is what the whole world needs today. That's what the not only the third world needs but the whole world needs because there's tremendous socio economic Injustice and in this country too and I think were the what the Muslims and the Jews have to say in terms of the ethical perspective is profoundly relevant to what's happening in the society and I think and I hope and pray that once the Palestinian issue is satisfactory resolved that then we will be able to work together without the politics. And and create a just Society. Again, I would say that these La make tradition like the Jewish tradition puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on on community as such it's interesting to to note that the word for community in Islam is the were Doma which comes from the word. Ohm, which means mother so actually the community is supposed to be like a mother now one of the stereotypes of Islam that I have encountered very often in my dialogue with Jews and Christians is a sort of like a it's a three-part statement. The Christian is in the middle and the Muslims and Jews are on the either side and the Christian says to the Muslims and Jews. Your God is the God of Justice. My God is the god of love. The underlying assumption being loved is better than Justice. My God is better than your God. I mean, I've met that many many times and what I would like to point out here, is that what this kind of statement is really indicative of is That people who make these kinds of statements really are misled by labels such as love and Justice and don't really go beyond them and to see what is the content of these. What is the content of these terms because for example in the Quran, there are two words for justice or two different concepts of Justice, which emerge there is the concept of what is called a dual which is Justice in a legalistic sense, which is you know, people should get what they deserve and it's represented by the image emblem of the scale of scale, which is a balance and then there is another term which is called a saint now the way that this concept functions which also is is sort of justice, but let me explain how it works you sort of like this take the case of a mother who has a number of children and one of our children is disadvantaged or handicapped in some way now if that mother gives to their child more than she gives to the others. What would you say would you? She's being fair or unfair. What do you think? What would be your response to that? You most people would say she's being fair because the special needs of the child Merit that and that's what it means to be a mother to understand sort of almost by Instinct what the child needs and to provide it and that is what s on means. That's how it functions is that it is the job of a community to give to all of its members what they need and if they cannot make it by the means of their own effort to then make up the shortfall and so there is this inbuilt compassion in this concept. And as far as the intimacy is concerned, which is a personal relationship between Islam and between the believer and God I think we have before us the very very vast and Rich tradition of the of Sufism or Islamic mysticism and I don't need to point out too many of you that this that in these Nami traditions, we literally have thousands of mistakes. Every Islamic country has a very rich most Tradition at the sole exception to that being Saudi Arabia which eliminated it sort of deliberately but there is in this in the Islamic tradition a very primary focus very primary emphasis. I believe on this kind of an intimate relationship with God again, it has missed by Outsiders because of the way that Islam is represented as a religion of justice of legalism of God's Transcendence being emphasized to the point where there's no sense of God's Eminence because one of the most popular and beloved images of God they are to I want to mention here one is that whichever from the Quran one is that God is nearer to human beings than their jugular vein then the neck vein. So God is really inside of you and the other one is when we say bismillahi r-rahmani r-rahim the more to most beloved girl names of God, ah Rahman and Rahim both of them coming from the word root word rajam, which means Womb which is Linking of God's love to a mother's love again. I mean, first of all, you can't get more feminine that that I can't resist that making that statement as a feminist, but I think again, it represents the closeness and intimacy and of the relationship. (00:51:19) If you really want me to answer that question, you have to invite me back here again. So it's it requires a very long answer. Let me just try to answer it (00:51:27) very briefly for the time being, you know Islam as also Judaism and Christianity are patriarchal religious traditions and historically in a sense discrimination has been practiced against women in all of these Traditions. However, the way that I look at it is this way, I believe that at the heart of these the heart of all of these religious Traditions is the idea of Justice, which if it were implemented if it were actualized would not discriminate against women. So what we have to distinguish between on the one hand is what is normative what is ideal and then what is actual so ideally speaking from the many years of work I have done in this area I can say to you that it is my personal conviction that the Quran if properly understood not only does not discriminate against women, but in fact Is very solicitous of the of the rights of women Muhammad Iqbal who is one of the most outstanding Muslim thinkers once said sort of half jokingly, but with a lot of Truth, he said if I did not know who had written the Quran I would have said it was written by a woman because it is so protective of women's rights, but I also having said that have to say that to date in the history of Islam. The Quran has not been interpreted from in on patriarca point of view and that is precisely what we are trying to do today and that in actual practice women have been discriminated against and are being discriminated against but some very exciting things are going on right now for instance. I'm part of a group of Muslim women Scholars. We've been meeting over the last few years who are engaged in a study of the Quran from a feminist point of view, and we have been able to cover a lot of ground and this movement. It's which is an international movement is gaining ground so that you are you find within many Islamic countries this kind of Consciousness growing and for the first time in history Muslim women are themselves reading the text. It never happened before so I think that they are, you know, very exciting things are happening and I think because you know, I think that Liberation must come from within Muslim women must liberate themselves, and I think the process has started. Thank you.