Last week the Associated Press reported from the Philippines that a group called the task force detainees affiliated with the Catholic Church says more than 8,000 people were detained in 1987 in the Philippines on suspicion of links to Rebel groups. And that's compared with about 6,000 people reported arrested in 1985. The last full year that Ferdinand Marcos was in office and the group filiated with the Catholic Church claims that one of four arrested are tortured while they are to taint Our Guest today is Maria. Do you know who is the head of the group called flag with ship is an acronym?For an organization called the free legal assistance group of the Philippines and Miss Bianca know has been in the United States since March on an exhaustive lecture tour to reports and we're happy to have her in the studio today. She is in Minnesota to receive an award. The organization flag is to receive an award from Minnesota human rights lawyers organization and that we welcome you to the studio. Thank you very much. Good afternoon. What do you make of those numbers reported by that group that there are indeed over 8,000 people arrested in 1987 and many of them tortured. There are a lot of people arrested and a lot of them are our clients and what surprises and what upsets is a lot is that the increase in the number of torture cases people in the past since mrs. Taketa assumed power in 86 Dodge Charger was not being utilized. However, starting 87 all the way 88th up to now.Medical evidence supporting torture exists really and I personally have seen victims of torture. I don't think I understand and I suspect the administration of Corazon Aquino a leader who many Americans I think have the impression is a Peace and Freedom loving person. She is the victim of human rights violation, her husband was murdered by the martial law dictatorship and many of us who work in human rights in the country had very very high hopes. We supported her we have to put her in power and we really thought that things would change but unfortunately they haven't does it mean that she is unable to control those elements, especially the military during the sound that's right. She has practically no control over the military elements in the country right now. And another reason is that she's under tremendous power pressure by the military.Under threat of a lot of course, and I think that this is another reason why she has been giving in to a lot of the pressure and the demands of the military to have a more mature approach towards the problems in the country right now. I suppose another point of understanding that Americans don't have is y Corazon Aquino can't simply replace those military leaders or other government leaders who might be perpetrating the human rights abuses are carrying out other things that she does not agree with but I think for this the answer to this would lie in the roots of Mississippi nociception into power at that is a 1986 what we have for the world-famous Edsel Revolution are the people's power of Illusion what we have found out recently was that what it was actually was a military coup which was instigated by former soldiers and cabinet officers were very close to Mr. Marcos who are in fact his relatives and they would rather die.Gun-toting upset with him and they decided to have a cool now. They only offered power to miss Aquino three days after the quote so she had nothing to do with it. And I think the whole purpose there was if the people had not come out then we would have had a military takeover. We wouldn't have had mrs. Aquino, but because the people came out to the officers then decided after 3 days to offer power to mrs. Aquino and I think because of this mrs. Aquino believes and this is my personal opinion. She believes that our base of support comes from the military that it was the Medici that put her into power and that if she does not accede to their demands she may not find herself involved any longer.One of the reasons that the Detention of these individuals is occurring is because of course in the Philippines there is virtually pitched battle each day between the government and rebel forces with a communist. If not in deed Communist forces themselves. So I suppose the government says, well a lot of these folks were detaining. He's 8300 people are so in in 1987 are communist or their sympathizers. That's who they are. Who do you say they are they may be Communists. They may be communist sympathizers, but the bulk of our clients the bulk of the people. We represent are not Communists the bulk of the people. We represent the bulk of the people who are being tortured we're being made to disappear. We're being killed would be ordinary citizens just like you or me. And for this I can give you the best example of our lawyers. We are an organization of lawyers. We give legal aid we go to court so we are not in hiding you're not in the Insurgency. We are not carrying arms and yet from a1987 up to March nineteen eighty-nine six of our lawyers have already been killed. The last one was killed was killed only this March is at 32. No go fuc at Armand Hammer and he was shot because he was so defending a communist or someone was suspected of being a communist. I don't understand why we are here to help the rule of law. We were here to promote and defend human right? I seen as adversaries are view this communist and are being under serious stomach or the Philippines who is Secretary General of the free legal assistance group that with the acronym flag in Minnesota to receive an award for her organization from the Minnesota lawyers international human rights committee, and we'll take some questions from listeners. If you'd like to place a question to our gas Maria Socorro jacmel call us in the Twin Cities at 2 to 7.Seven 6,000 listeners outside the Twin Cities within Minnesota can call us toll-free no charge for this number at 1 806-5297 toll free number once again is one 800-652-9700 and in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand any of you can call that number within our listening area. If you happen to be out of state the area code is 612 and then to 276 thousand Where does plaque get its money from to support its organization donations from local sources and from foreign sources are work that are lawyers provide all their services free of charge. We do not try to send for any client that we represent the most that any of our lawyers would receive as honorarium would be the amount of about $2 fifty and this is not an irregular basis.Was Jose do you know your father the founder of flag and he started in 1974 for what reason this time? He was detained for two years. He was never brought the charge brought to trial. He would not charge he and mr. Aquino who are detained at the same time at a maximum security unit. We're also detained incommunicado for a. Of time at the ER and they were in complete and fire solitary confinement and then my father thought about it and he said if they can do this to someone like him and to someone like mr. Aquino and they were being treated fairly. Well, they were not being tortured. They were they were getting a bigger saleroom. They didn't have bars, but they were is fully enclosed no windows and access to a television access to books are they had an air conditioner and they weren't they were treated better than the others, but he thought that he said what about the others?Is giving them legal services and then when he was released and he saw you know that 70000 people were arrested at the time of Mark martial law and he realize this is so I thought he went back to the camp. She talked to the political prisoners you saw the evidence of torture there and he decided who's going to help them. So he got together with a group of other lawyers and decided to organize flag that several people on the line with questions for our guests, Maria Jacqueline will go to the telephone now for your question. Go ahead, please we're listening. My question is in reference toThe comments that you have inside you that you don't know why these people is reacting like this or why the government is pursuing such a line of defense for Action in reference to the Filipino themselves. Could not be that strong and obvious evidence that the government is contaminated by by the western side of how Filipinos should be in terms of its democracy in terms of its way of social justice would not be traced back primarily to the storical Distortion that was made by the foreign Intruders to the country of the Philippines. You know what? It is possible because right now there's a new phenomenon in the Philippines, which is what we call the polarisation of society Concepts such as democracy and communism have been redefined. They have been distorted so that right now you are easily called or branded a communist if you work for human rights, if you ask for higher wages for your workers, if you ask for land for the farmers, if you speak out against the presence of foreign bases are nuclear weapons. If you want any kind of change you're a communist on the other hand democracy has been defined to mean that if you want violence, if you are agreeable to the presence of Vigilantes, if you think that people can be shot killed and tortured and it's alright then that's democracy and I are this polarization is knew there was attempts to come up with polarization during the time of mr. Marcus, but nobody believed. Mr. Marcus every time he was calling everybody a communist because everybody knew that mr. Marcus. What's the fastest that he was a dictator the difference is that unfortunately members of the church including high-ranking Bishops and Cardinals and even the president have joined this name-calling wagon and they have begun to call organizations that even individuals communist and these organizations and these individuals are not carrying are they are not they're big they have homes. They go home to I mean they have legally have offices where they can be reached and they are simply agitating for change precisely because we want democracy to work. What part is the United States foreign policy. Do you think playing in motivating this polarization as you described in rather a lot in this and that and this I based mainly from a quote from a senator of the United States and I I don't know if this is a quote. He said several years ago where every form of Third world nationalism with automatically be equated with Communism and this comes from a US senator and I think any any changes real changes that would occur in my country which would mean changes in the distribution of wealth and power so that we would lessen the property in the country may not be fully acceptable to the interests economic and security interests of the United States back to the telephone with another question for our guests Maria. Do you have to know who is the general secretary of flag the free legal assistance group that her father founded in 1974 and Maria asked that we point out at the beginning that she is not an attorney. She is instead of communications graduate with bachelor's degree in general secretary of flag and we'll get back to the phone right now. It's your turn, please. My question concerns the theme that you're not even touching on about who were the Communists and who was and I was wondering if your organization supports detention appear at the torture of people who are in fact, as far as we are concerned for lawyers in the Philippines have an oath which they take which is that you defend anyone whose rights have been abused regardless of political ideologies singing religious background race X Street at cetera. We don't chase our clients rather most of our clients walk into the office and ask for our help and we don't turn away people who need our help. Alright other colors with the question we have several lines open now. If you'd like to place your question in the Twin Cities, you can call us at 227-6000 to 276 thousand and the toll free number is open one 800-652-9700. What's your question, please? Thank you for welcoming me here. Reports about the Philippine and US press former US General John J singer. Has been working with the unification church and other upper-right religious groups based here in the US to organize and support Death Squad. In the Philippines picture of targeted members of The Liberation theology movement in the Philippines. Can you tell us more about General activities and operations? Thank you in the Philippines looking for gold that is his official permit and he has an official permit from the government of the Philippines to hunt the the gold a presumably from the Japanese war time. In the Philippines General singlaub has been in and out of the country. I was informed that he is now a full-time consultant and advisor of the ministry of National Defense in the area of a civilian volunteer organizations, which is the term government uses to describe the Vigilantes. There are certain vigilante groups as well as theaters. It specifically those in the northern Luzon and Mindanao area who have publicly admitted in various radio and TV programs as well as a newspaper magazines that they are being funded by Mr. Single and that they and their men are being trained by mr. Singh love as well. As other American soldiers. They have been tremendous violations of rights that have occurred I buy this vigilante groups are fanatical. What's Princeton's one of our lawyers who was killed attorney Alphonsus recount was killed last June 1988 by a vigilante member an ounce of myself. And this also must remember claims that he was spayed about 25 US dollars to murder mysteries attorney. Sirico by a major in the Intelligence Division of the Philippine Armed Forces recently. We have also a fanatical such as what I known as we thought. Thoroughly meaning chop chop and the touchpad have grown in size and a number and they're very very famous for beheading all of their victims and their rather their indiscriminate in choosing their victims have also been a series of massacres that have happened that have occurred in the country and the other executions mainly of students Farmers a student leader is Farmers Union leaders in various parts of the country and this would be these are being done not only by the Vigilante groups, but also by the calf Group, which is the citizens Armed Force Geographic unit, which is a paramilitary arm of the government paramilitary arm of the government. Is it more complicated than that? Is it also a case of Woodford a lot about land reform in the Philippines being stymied by the landholders? Is it also a case of the landholders playing along with this and going along with the Vigilantes or death squads or however you Yes, specifically in the case of Negros about two weeks ago. There were public hearings held in the Philippines in Philippine Congress on the creation of the civilian volunteer organizations as well as assistants are the Costco seasoned timeforce2 graphic units and they found out that the people funding these groups is not government but the landowners that these groups are accountable in Negros are accountable to the private to the landowners and act mainly as private armies of the landowners. Let's go back to the telephone for another question and it's your turn to go ahead please. I have spent a little time in the Philippines. I was under the impression that the Americans military particularly has Elan close relationship with the Philippine military in the Philippine constabulary and in the form of advisory relationships and supplying things in terms of the Academy's many Filipinos are going to Americans police and military academies that kind of thing. Is there anything that the Americans government or the American Military specifically could do to perhaps make better citizens of Filipinos in uniform perhaps to make them more like Uniformed Services would stay out of politics and then leave that to civilian politicians. I think I'd like to answer this question by citing three different cases where American servicemen on base were involved and this happened in the months of February and March of 1989. The first case involved a young woman. She was a scavenger. She was hunting through the garbage of Clark Air Base at Pampanga and she was arrested by American servicemen. She was brought to their headquarters. She was stripped naked she was made to sit on a block of ice. She was sexually molested the second case involved to Farmer Brothers who have been walking and had been found to have trespassed on Clark Air Base territory. These Farmer brothers were brought inside the headquarters of the servicemen and their fliers were applied to their noses into their genitals. They were beaten up the third case involves. So big bass workers. They were sick so big bass workers who were accused or or suspected of a map of doing I don't know if it was theft or something within the base is Subic naval base in Olongapo City and there they were picked out they were interrogated without access to clients and they were punched around without access to lawyers. They were bunched about and everything else. Despite the fact that these three cases where in the public view they were reported in the newspapers. That was a lot of public outcry to the best of my knowledge as of now. No one has been prosecuted yet and So my answer is I think the best thing that the American government and the American Military can do in the Philippines has to leave us alone back to the telephone for another listener question for our guests Maria Socorro from the Philippines group called flag free legal assistance group. She's in Minnesota to receive an award for her group from the Minnesota lawyers international human rights committee your question, please go ahead. Do you feel the Philippines can return to a stable organize democratic government? And if so, how long do you think it'll take? You know what that's my dream. That's what I want to happen. And I'm very worried and I'm very upset because what's been happening in the countries that there's just too much vitamin C is Too Much Death. There's just too much Bloodshed and I'm so afraid that if things don't change the situation doesn't change and that the road of violence seems to be the road that we're on. I don't know how long it's going to take. I wish it would happen tomorrow. I mean if it could have happened yesterday with all have wanted that I don't know how long it's going to take it's going it's going to require so much work from all of us and I don't know how I mean it's just that the violence is not only in turn to the murders the violence also exist in the fact that that 30 million out of 56 million Filipinos do not eat three meals a day in the fact that every year 1.2 Filipino babies million Filipino babies die literally every year from Hunger 3.5. Filipino babies every year suffer from third-degree malnutrition which prints with Aphasia brain damage. I mean the violence is not only the physical violence but everything else that goes under the country and if things don't change I'm really very worried about what's going to happen you'd like for US military to leave the Philippines and presumably that means give up the bases that you that the US military operates in your country. What about the commercial interests in the Philippines? What role do the commercial interests play? It may be equal to the United States military in terms of the impact and effect. They have on the country you have we have a lot of multinational transnational corporations in the country and I think one of the reasons why there's a lot of investment in the country right now is because we have we are bandied about is having very cheap labor cheap and Dosa labor. There is no currency a new law in Philippine Congress, which will ban strikes for all companies over the neck. 5 years which will lengthen the. Of a collective bargaining agreement from the original two years. Now. It's going to go to four to five years which means that it can't change that whatever the relationship between employer and employee will not change over at the Domain static over a longer. Of time and also there and you lost right now which make it legal for strikes to be violently dispersed because they are a nice or or because they pull you through the environment or something like this in argued for because the government would like to restore the company country to some semblance of Economic Security and stability presumably even for the benefit of the people. That is the ostensible reason why the official no I don't because I workers are not earning enough the government claims that the worker has to earn every day the equivalent of 7 US dollars in order to eat. Meet eat three meals a day. But according to the law of workers are only earning the equivalent of $3 51 wage that is mandated minimum wage is the equivalent of 350 per day. No government claims that you would have to earn 7 in order to eat and yet if you think about it how many workers really are early mandated wages? A lot of companies do a lot of things such as hired workers on a contract to a basis in which case they need not earn the minimum wage or else hired them on probationary basis, which is 4. Of six months at the end of six months fire them and then after a week or so rehire them for another. Of six months and again go around the law and and so if it doesn't happen much, let's go back to the telephone for another question and it's your turn go ahead plates. Sliding Puzzle about this. I'm calling from Minneapolis. You're saying that. The missus Aquino is is democratic is open and accepting and yes to her government is not is this not a case and the case of saying if only the king knew what was going on. This is rotten advisor. She's doing this isn't she one of a member and wasn't her husband. Do you know I am a member of one of the great of the great hand land on owning families and if so, how can she call trillion and psychologically go against them is isn't it saying that she's far the people and the rest of the government isn't isn't that just reply I'll hang up and listen. Thank you. I believe that this is a nice present and therefore has a responsibility to ask the people really put her there and as such she there is no justification for the abuses that are going on in government for the massive poverty and then inequities that are going on in the country and I cannot imagine that anything would justify. Mississippi laws in activity or activity as a person. She is very sincere as a person. She does love freedom and she does love peace and and I would imagine she does look or or whatever geared towards the Democratic principles as a president. However, she is sorely lacking in implementing her personal principles and and this can be seen by the actual realities that are going on. All right, we have another caller with a question and we'll get to you right now. Hello, we're waiting. There was a time when they were working on a new Constitution and if I remember right one of the major accomplishments Sheehan was to get this past I'm wondering what has been the effect of that. Is it a help or hindrance in your work and Germany? What is the status of the Constitution the Philippines situation in the world? We have a very Progressive a very fantastic Bill of Rights. You can't imagine we recognize economic rights recognized social lights in in our constitution. We have put a ban on in, I got a detention so we do not allow any detention without trial or we have forbidden torture. We have that the we have actually a document which guarantees each and every basic civil political economic social and cultural rights that is found in all of the international Universal documents on human rights throughout the world. The difference lies between what is on paper and its implementation and that is the biggest problem right now. We do use an Ender Constitution is a big help to I would work because we do quote a lot from it and a lot of our legal pleadings are based on the Constitution. Unfortunately, we are often faced with the fact that not too many people respect the Constitution and as a result, we are facing a situation where we are and the number of our clients who are illegally arrested to torture to have disappeared who have been murdered is increasing. We're about halfway through our conversation with Maria Socorro. Do you know who is Secretary General of the free legal assistance group group of lawyers working to defend the rights of people who claim they have been detained and tortured in the Philippines and we're taking calls from you and your questions. You can call us in the twin. Cities at 227-6207 $6,000 a toll free number available for those of you with in Minnesota outside the Twin Cities. You can call us toll-free at one 800-652-9700 1 800-652-9700. And of course you can call us anywhere in our listening area from anywhere in our listening area in our area code six one two, and then to 276 thousand. Let's go back to the telephone for your question. Go ahead please hello an American businessman who had the Good Fortune of living in the Philippines for over three years in the early part of this decade and learn to live with and around some of the abuses that were going on. Then with bombings a true stones and incidents international schools. Not to mention what was going on in Mindanao and so on and since we've returned weaved and witnessed all the mrs. Aquino Taking over and everything that's occurred and things seem to be deteriorating much to a back to the way they were before yet. Your guest is saying that what she wants out of the United States is for us to leave them alone. And if I understood correctly and I just wonder if in view of the tradition linkages between the Philippines in the United States and the military there whether that's really a realistic expectation. That's my question. I think it would be fairly realistic because under our constitution or the new one which was passed American bases in American troops have to leave the Philippines on September 17th, 1991 under the new treaties entered into between our two countries. I leave the dip the problem I think with our relationship between the Philippines and the United States is that our relationship was begun as a relationship of a colony. We were officially a colony of the United States. A hundred years ago and unfortunately that relationship I think has been carried over until the present and I know that in a lot of books for instance, you should read that we are your little Brown brothers and that was very very common even us after the 70s and things like that. It's like we understand and we do appreciate all the concern and all their presents as well as the desire to help us out. But I think like every child like every daughter or son there comes a point when you've got to stand up on your own two feet when you've got to make a life for yourself. You've got the phone call. You've got to make some mistakes. Maybe you get hurt but you need in your life and eventually you going and stand up a better person and I think personally I believe that the time has come for the Philippines as they the stepdaughter of the of the United States that the Showcase of democracy Etc to begin to rise and stand on its own two feet as a nation fully to be respected. And as a people in dignity back to the telephone with another listener, and it's your turn to go ahead please. My the courage of your speaker today. defending people who are guests live by the government being Troublesome. It seems to me. situation in the Philippines continues to be rather contradictory in and Virgin picture of a democracy family represents a great deal of wealth and selves family relationships and they represent the landholders in the the ruling economic classes. 11 Re-establish the military in less powerful role and support on the part of the United States. We cannot give up on military bases in the Philippines. So long as the Soviet Union maintain voices Cameron Bay. Vietnam when you take a look at these Ribfest Mystic pictures drawing that's our guests have any recipe for at least starting down the Democratic Road in the Philippines and face of all these problems I'll hang up and they answer thank you. I think that's right. Now there's a lot that can be done. If only if only mrs. Sakina and the government were to seriously consider the problems for instance. The part of the road to democracy would be to lessen if not, totally eradicate the poverty the massive poverty in the country and steps to wear. This would be to increase wages to have a better Social Service a welfare system Social Services System to make Healthcare and education accessible to the ordinary person to actually Redistribute land to those who need it and to those are actually telling the land and these steps are well within the power and well within the Mandate of government to take unfortunately, they're not taking it. So what are job right now? And this is what we have been doing is to pressure government to point out the government that it has its Duty 2 hours and it must do this. We're not always very successful, but we will continue to pressure government to use because we don't agree with violence. So we was peaceful Mensa parliamentary means legislative measures the loss to try to get government to change. Back to the telephone for another question for a guest and it's your turn. Are the flags at does any work on behalf of a Palestinian Tori illegally imprisoned in Palestine. Thank you. We do some work not only for the Palestinians but also for a lot of the Latin Americans for our for those two in the Africa South African region as well as in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore Etc. And most of the work that we do there would be solidarity work which would be letter-writing campaigns appeals. And then we do have an exchange of a we have a network where we exchange information. We exchange Court decisions. And sometimes we use decisions of other courts of other countries in our work and we hope that the sum of the other countries would you some of our decisions as well more questions for our guests Maria Socorro. Do you know who is General Secretary of the free legal assistance group or flag from the Philippine? It's and it's your turn to go ahead please American certainly have a propensity for figuring out other people's problems from an island of virtual security. All I wanted to do was give a week or two. Am I sound like a weak apology for? as a negative influence that Americans have had in building a system or at least two helping substantially to build a system in the Philippines over decades that now is Having to come to grips with itself, and I don't think it's fair that we sit over here and criticize very much and less were willing to experience sitting on a block of ice. And that's all I had to say. Thank you very much, sir back to the telephone for another listener. And it's your turn to go ahead. Please wondering if you could expand a little bit just about the prospects since the Aquino government according to what your guess that's just said doesn't really seem to be doing anything and responding to the kind of pressure. That's why does putting on them. Are there any other organized groups within the political system have a prospect of making some kind of democratic change object or what are the what is the the strength at the moment of the various stop? A rebel Guerrilla forces that might at some point come to power either through it with either a communist ideology or or or something else one other question the very beginning of the of the program mentioned something about how he knows coming to power was somehow or another of merely a military coup and I assert can you fight? Can you tell me about and where I can find more information about that has or anyting it written about that or expand on that a little bit more? Thank you very much. I think it's the there is a very good paper which is written by an Australian journalist. I forgot his name right now, but it is a full expose on the Edsel Revolution and not an Australian Australian Professor a doctor of history and he wrote a very very good. Say he went and he did the interview with the ram Boise Ram boys are the remove a reform arm for armed forces movement, which is with a faction of the military. That was led by Colonel unassigned a gringo honasan as well and which supported former Minister and realer and general Ramos at the time that they had their coup against mr. Marcus and that is one very very good source as well as if I think you've watched the publicly broadcast broadcast over public radio public TV, was it called in our image. I think the third portion of it also discusses very very briefly what happened then the fact that it was a cool. That the new place now going to your second question, which was about the Insurgency surprisingly the state department and the Philippine government and even the insurgents themselves have come up with more or less the same figures about the strength of the Insurgency according to them. The insurgents have something like 15,000 regular Armed Force with an additional dancehall Irregulars and they influence about 7,000 of the whole country's 41000 barangays or Villages. They according to that to these sources. I mentioned earlier the strength of the insurgents have a Mass Bay. Base of support running into four or five million Filipinos. These are figures which are quoted by the state department the Philippine government and and the insurgents. I honestly have no idea whether these figures are accurate or not. I mean, these are the figures which are being used. I know that when mrs. Aquino assume power the insurgents Los tremendos support from the countryside that people did not want to support them anymore because they wanted to give me some Sakina what chance because they ever nobody wants violence, but don't nobody likes to see their than blood but what happened recently is that because there have been a massive aerial bombings because there have been a lot of strange things because Villages and towns are being raised to the ground. Because there's been an increase in the number of people who have disappeared have been killed. I think that the it is highly possible that the insurgents would be gained more sympathy more of the sympathy that they had lost at the time that Mrs. Aquino got into power as to whether or not you know, what their prospects are. I think Honesty that they will not be successful in taking over the Aquino government in say five or ten years time, but if things do not change in the country if operations become worse, if people are being if if a democracy the concepts of democracy and communism by being redefined if people are being more polarized if people are going to be forced to choose between one side or the other than maybe in 15, 20, 25 30 years, it is possible that we would have something Nature. I'm the third question. I think had something to do with the political opposition to the government and not only opposition to the government but also political agitation for change there is a lot and this can be divided into two you have one which would be composed of the non-governmental groups, which is broadly called in the country the cost oriented movement now, it is very strong and there is a lot of education for change, but unfortunately, it is the members and the leaders of this movement of this country and the groups that are being killed and are being harassed and also these groups are being branded as Communists so that the it is very difficult for groups like them to work and in connection with political parties a lot of the political parties, excuse me back home have on their political agenda part of their part party platform. Democratic changes and principles, but unfortunately, many of the pot Filipino politicians have not fully translated their party platform into action. You've been talkin about what I presume to be mostly right-wing oriented violence towards people who do not share the view of the military. What about the other way around what about left-wing oriented violin stories of people who are in government of left-wing violence too and I think part of this also is the fact that the peace talks failed there were talks to renegotiate sessions for a peace settlement between the insurgents and the government in the early part of the Aquino Administration and unfortunately this failed and I think the reason the reason given by the insurgents by the new People's Army in the Communist Party of the Philippines why they left the peace table was because of the massacre of farmers, which was held right in front of Palace of the president in January of 1987 and I think this kind of stopped the doctors at well, there is a lot of abuse a lot of people are getting caught in the crossfire right. We have 200 + 200,000 internal refugees Filipinos fleeing from their homes leaving their their animals behind leaving their houses and their properties behind because of the violence going on between the Insurgency and the government back to the telephone for another question. And it's your turn. Go ahead, please. Be nice to have made a life here in the United States and we liked it. But we want to go back in our old age. I'm deeply distressed. I'd like to said we hope for a better life under music Tino cochino is so ineffectual in controlling corruption and abuses of her ministers. Would is she going to last would you suggest how about honest men? Do you think of the people elect him or would he be our next leader? Okay, I think you said that Enos to romantic 1992 and we are scheduled to have elections in 1992 under the Constitution or any president after mrs. Aquino is to serve only one term which is 6 years cannot run for re-election. However, I'm in Decatur, Mississippi. You know, there is a ticklish legal issue as to whether or not that she can run because she was president before the new constitution was put into Powers at the time. She was present there was a professional transitional Constitution and therefore legally. She's not barred from running for re-election. However, Mississippi now has publicly announced that she does not look she does not want to run for re-election. I am afraid of General Ramos being president mainly because he is a general a former General in the military also because during the time of mr. Marcus the unit which he ran, which is the Philippine constabulary was among the most in for For violations of Rights. I am also afraid because Justice March 1989 there was in the Philippines a Nash National Congress of all of the Vigilante groups throughout the country both armed and unarmed and this vigilante groups proclaimed General Ramos as the next president of the country. And of course, it bothers me very much back to the telephone front of the listener question. And it's your turn. Go ahead, please. I I I'm stunned at the fact that you want removal of a naval base that we need to vent to vent to defend our interest in the area of commonplace sir. I think you put it very correctly when you said that you need America needs the bases to defend American interests. Unfortunately American interests and Filipino interests are not one in the same. And for this reason if we would like and as a Filipino, I do want to promote Filipino interest. I believe that it is only to our interests to have the American bases go a lot of the reasons given for the necessity shall we say of maintaining the bases would be either security or economic. However, and we have always been told that we would need a basis to defend us against the Russians who are aimed at us from Cameron. Now just last year a minute. Mr. Gorbachov offered to remove his bases at Cameron Bay if the Americans remove their bases at so they can Clark American officials went to the country and started and reacted to mr. Gorbachev statement by saying but this is not fair because Cameron day does not pose a threat to the Philippines because Cameron Diaz Justin R&R station and you cannot compare Clark and Subic to Cameron Bay and it is very clear. The Philippines has no enemies. We have diplomatic relations with Russia China Japan and the United States with every country and we believe that our in our state we are very safe without the base and that in fact because of the basis because of enemies of the United States which may not be enemies of the Philippines. We may be attacked in case of some kind of Confrontation. Between the US and some other country that is not an enemy of the Philippines. Yes, will your statement that the Philippines has no enemy is is a very appealing assertion and and I'm sure you believe it except that. It's very difficult. Of course to look very far into the future 10 to 15 years and wonder what would happen to your country if indeed the United States to close its basis which must be enormous presence in your country of pictures and numbers are to be believed how many troops are stationed there and a power vacuum of sorts were created by the departure of those US troops over time. Maybe true that the Philippines has no enemies are people coveting your territory now because the Americans are there, but what would happen if the US troops took off what we intended to do with a basis is to convert them for peaceful commercial and public industrial uses for the country. And in which way we would generate enough income football for agricultural workers and poor Nana agricultural. So that we would be using the bases to promote economic development for our people. In fact, we have a lot of studies the government is extremely serious about conversion. In fact, the Philippine government took the very first step in the latest memorandum of agreement signed between the Philippines in the United States are in Washington last October for the first time ownership of the facilities on the basis was turned over to the Philippines and the Philippine government is seriously is very serious about taking over those spaces. Now it if we were to look say a Thailand Thailand had American bases and there was that question that when the American bases left eyelid Thailand would be would have a domino effect and that they would be a power vacuum and another country would be interested in Thailand, but the Americans left in 76 look at island now 10:13 years later. Nothing is happening Thailand like us we are peaceful people we have no enemies. Back to the telephone I think for one final question for a guest and it's your turn biography of Gandhi and some other books about India's the last few years of history as well as Gandhi's own by autobiography and I'm struck very much as I listened to the pull and tug in some of the colors of of the similarities between what what the Filipinos perceived to be their best interests for independent for Fallout 4 true ending for full Independence. If you will versus what the United States are in the case of India what Britain wanted and now the United States thinks they need in terms of what their best interests are in and certainly it seems to me even though I might personally haven't been in the Philippines to I might like to see you in some ways from the United States point of view militarily maintaining those bases. I applaud the the attempts at the at reaching greater into Thank you very much, sir. I assume the Catholic church is still an enormous Force for Morality and public influence. What's happening with the church regarding these reports the do we sighted with 8300 people to tame the one of four tortured in 1987. What is the church doing? There is a progressive element within the church and there is of course a conservative element within the church and unfortunately, the conservative element within the church is a larger is a bigger and is more powerful faction. And right now the issue affecting the church right now is not human rights, but the rise of an event evangelist the fundamentalist churches and the fact that a lot of Filipinos have been moving to those evengelical fundamentalist churches and have been leaving the Catholic church. So that in fact I was before I left. Country are the Catholic church was even thinking of buying a TV station so that they could compete with those who in come out in TV and talk about so it has and I think that is the issue that the that is the issue facing the Philippine church right now and who is supporting when we know that the United States through its military involvement is supporting the government of the Philippines in a very large fashion know who is supporting the Insurgency. Where are they getting their money and arms from I don't know what I have been told and this is what also appears in a lot of reports that I have read is that this is a homegrown Insurgency that they are not being funded by outside sources. I think they have what they call their own form of Taxation. I think it's like I don't know what it's like, but I think they packed landowners and I require landowners to pay the money and then I think that they also engage in some other Illegal means to get money. I have no idea. Honestly. Is there any indication that the work of your group the free legal assistance group for the attorneys who work for it and who represent people whose rights have been violated. Is there any indication that the judicial system in the Philippines is responsive to outside pressure. Obviously people think of writing letters u s response to to that there is tremendous effect on this because the Indus what bothers mostly the people back home would be the fact that other people are watching and that the the human rights issue the issue of the rule of law is a very ticklish issue for government and they don't want to be compared in any way to the Marcos martial law regime it date. They feel very offended and easily upset by this so that every time they would receive any letter from any person from any part of the world asking or expressing concern about the plight of a search of a particular individual. Get upset and then it dance to stop things from happening. It says to give us who work on human rights a little bit of protection to continue to do the work that we do you describe the growth of the Insurgency and and it appears clear from your comments that the Insurgency has reached a point where it is now no longer going to engage the government in conversation in negotiations of any going to look like and what does that mean for your work at court further polarization Nation more and more people innocent civilians caught in the crossfire more clients. More Death when you confront the Philippine Judicial System whose appointees are your lawyers typically going before when she asks you where she required all the judges to submit their resignations and so all the judges in the country are appointed by necessity. No, I'm not reappointed. That's right for those people who have cases that they claim their rights have been violated. How long have they been held have they been held with charge how long have they been held with cases in the Philippines take a very long time criminal cases with last for 5 to 7 years in which case a person charged with an offense could be kept in jail without Bail. No answer for that. Of time a civil suit is longer. It's from 7 to 11 years a writ Petition of writ for habeas corpus for instance could be decided anywhere within a few months to 20-30 years. That is the system that we are faced with that. We work with back home. We thank you for coming by today to share your time with us. We have been speaking with Maria Socorro. Do you know who is General Secretary of flag the free legal assistance group from the Philippines is in town to receive an award for her group from the Minnesota lawyers international human rights committee, which is presenting its 1989 human rights award to flag an award that would will be presented this evening. Good afternoon to scare Yankton developments in China continue to dominate the news and then NPR Journal will find out how this past weekend's tragic turn of events could affect local plans for business and travel in China. All Saturday will report from The Walker which is showcasing the recent Renaissance a printmaking in this country about your tuna and for those stories and the rest of the day's News 5 music station's 5:30 news stations and a reminder that tomorrow during the noon hour. We are expected to bring you live coverage of a national press club with Michael boskin who is Chairman of the president's Council of economic advisers Michael boske tomorrow during the noon hour at the national press club. We will certainly keep you up to date on events in the People's Republic of China. We have nothing new to bring to you from the Associated Press at least by way of reports from China accept what you have heard over the past two hours, which is that in Beijing and in and around Tiananmen Square soldiers periodically have charged out from the square with their guns. At least eight people reported shot today three of them fatally and many of the city's businesses hotels restaurants and things are shut down or operating only a skeleton staff reminder that this portion of Monday's. Midday is made possible by Cooperative power providing electricity for 17 member Cooperative serving West Central and Southern, Minnesota. I'm Dan Olson. And this is ksjn 1330 Minneapolis-Saint Paul look like an overcast Sky now in the Twin Cities 77 degrees. Stay tuned for Associated Press News Headlines and then take out with host best friend. The time is 1.