(00:00:00) Drew the Short Straw this week when we had to find somebody to fill in pain for Potter while he's eating his way through the city of Memphis. Good morning, Daniel. I'm Mark. No, this is not a short straw. This is a good time. This is fun. I get to work with some of mpr's most talented and highly paid individuals Dorothy hand for Jeffrey Walker. And of course the multi-talented Mark Heist head. I think he wants something from us folks. What do you think? Well, it's a Saturday morning buttered up here. Everybody's feeling good. Yes, we have our guest in the studio today that I think you're going to enjoy hearing from because she is a woman behind the scenes. She puts her byline on these pieces and then she lets other people do the writing for her for the most part sounds like a great reporting job to meet welcome to Misty snow and ice to have you today. Thank you. Misty is the coordinator for the Mind work series at the Star Tribune newspaper of the Twin Cities and mind works as many of you may know is that extra section that comes as part of variety sometimes and mind works. It's been called mind. For a time before that it was called Journal Juniors Misty tells us and it has been part of the newspaper since 1983. Probably some of you who are listening have had young people your children who have written in to mind works probably of coaxed your kids to write in while their letters arrived at Misty's desk which I imagine in my mind looks like a small scale Mount Everest there in amongst The Newsroom clutter in Downtown Minneapolis. Is that a fair description, you know with letters falling off the edge of the desk and apparently you read them all or somebody you designate reads (00:01:34) don't know I've had all of them except for there have been three topics in the last six years that I haven't read slowly myself one was when I was out of town a few years back and this year because of the volume they've been to that. I haven't been able to read all my all myself. So I've had some (00:01:47) help now the information that we got before you came to the studio. Misty was that you have read nearly 150,000 essays written by young people. Not even very many classroom teachers can claim that Distinction and you are not a classroom teacher by background. You're a reporter, right you happen to be a native of Pierre South Dakota. She made clear to me before the broadcast began and we're happy to have somebody from the Western neighbor in the studio native and Misty before her coordinating mind works was a reporter for the (00:02:18) start. No, I did the fix a column fix it column. (00:02:22) So you were the mysterious person behind (00:02:24) fix. I was half of the mysterious person behind (00:02:26) fix another widely read feature. I would think I always turn to fix it right away because you never know. What odd an Arcane question is going to be answered in that call the wonderful job Soup To Nuts. All right. Well, we're inviting telephone calls and questions for our studio. Guests Misty snow on we were hoping as the broadcast began that we're going to hear perhaps from some of the young people who have either written letters to mind works or have thought about writing a letter to mind works because sometimes taking pen or pencil in hand, and actually putting something on paper is a pretty daunting process. So we'd enjoy hearing from you the telephone Number in the Twin Cities is 2276 thousand 2276 thousand listeners outside the Twin Cities area with in Minnesota can call us toll-free at 1-866-553-2368 hundred 652. 9700. I suppose Misty. I was most gripped by the most recent mind works not surprisingly on Dad's fathers and you find naturally the most quotable quotes to put right up in front including this one from the ten-year-old and Jordan who said I love my dad and wish he could live forever and ever I think every kid in America thinks the same of their dad. Wow, what a warm fuzzy to begin a to begin a (00:03:47) piece with she said was true. (00:03:49) Yes, and then just down the column things suddenly turn much more sober much darker with an 11 year old boy from Isanti writing in my dad is Ruff not home enough yells too much and his consequences are much too hard on me. That's the way most fathers are why? I don't know. So I was surprised I guess by the forthrightness of your Young (00:04:15) Writers. I was surprised as well that that they would say as many things as I did and say some of them in his Grim away as they did but I think probably that just speaks to there is a raw nerve out there and we need to hear from these kids about (00:04:29) it. Why do you think the young people right so straightforwardly to you? What is it that moves them? (00:04:34) I'm not sure some of them of course don't write so straightforwardly. I mean most of them come in as classroom assignments or extra credit assignments and and certainly some of them write two sentences and that's it and it's pretty obvious how much they cared about the project many of them right very sincerely about it. And what I'm beginning to see is that they lend their essay by saying I won't tell anyone else this but that's what mind works is for. So the beginning to use it and have over the years used it as kind of a way to prevent some of their feelings about (00:04:59) things. Yeah. The other part that I get strikes me about the dad series, which was part of the Star Tribune newspaper, March 7th, is that as you turn from the front page of the writing section, then you get to the pieces where a good portion apparently of the letters have been written and it's entertaining besides informative. Here's a 10 year old from Maple Lake saying it's weird how my dad disappears when a lot of cleaning starts and and then just down the page again. It turns very sober do not have any belts in the house because they hurt now that really is is a troubling comment and perhaps it's not so troubling as you read it. Maybe you sense that there is a much broader context for comments like that which come out is very troubling (00:05:48) in that particular case that was part of a two-sentence essay and so is he didn't give me much to go on beyond that what was happening as far as seeing the things you turn the page and it's entertaining and amusing and you see on the cover and their it It's difficult and Graham. That's what mind works does every month practically as try to cover the range. And at no matter what the topic the range is extraordinary from kids who are living kind of a dilek lives to kids who are living horrific lives. And one of the things I try to do with mind works every time is to somehow give a sense of that Spectrum to the reader that the kids live in very different kinds of circumstances and feel very different things. (00:06:20) You've covered families. Obviously Dads Moms, you've caught covered sexual stereotypes, you've covered drugs, you've covered the role of sports and a variety of other topics and we'll talk about that as our conversation with Misty snow progresses and we invite you to join the conversation and we'll come out the telephone number one more time before we go to the first call because there are a couple of lines open 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities 2276 thousand the toll-free line is also open at one eight hundred six five to ninety seven hundred. Let's go to the first caller and see what's on the listeners mind. Hello. We're listening for (00:06:57) you. Yes. I'd like to know if the children whose work. Are published give permission to have them published? We don't ask for release forms, and legally, we don't have to ask for release forms for this most of the essays that come in have been seen by a teacher. They come in as classroom assignments. So we assume it's gone through one level already in a few rare instances will notice that the teachers have a parent sign off on it. So we know that a parent has seen it but otherwise simply their writing to us gives us permission to Russia to to print (00:07:25) them this raises the question in my mind of whether or not you get response from parents saying now listen here, I didn't want my kids name and address published in your newspaper for crying out loud for hundreds of thousands of other people to read do you get some fairly frenzied (00:07:37) reactions now, I don't which surprises me sometimes because we do print some fairly sensitive essays. There was some concern initially in the program on the first couple of times we published we included street addresses which was really a mistake and we had heard that some of the kids would get mail or they would get in a just a couple of instances. They received obscene phone calls. So we backed off on that right away now, we we simply give a town and but the parents know I've had a From one parent when we did a series about working mothers who who wrote in and her child had written a very sensitive essay and said that it moved her to tears but that she was she wrote an essay and response and it was she was glad to have seen it because it made her think about some things a little differently. So I haven't had the kind of irate call that sometimes I (00:08:24) expect you don't always use names. Here's a 12 year old writing from st. Paul who says Dad you're bumming. First of all, you don't pay child support and then you lie to us you try to tell us not to tell Mom that you're working so you don't have to pay what you owe us and there's no name obviously associated with (00:08:42) them. I'm getting much more conservative about using names. We're dealing with more sensitive issues as mind works goes on the last couple of years have been more and more sensitive and my primary concern is to protect the child. And in these in these instances part of what made me even more conservative than usual as I just read hundreds and thousands of essays that described father's with bad tempers and Micah And was it they take out their their anger their embarrassment on their child and I certainly don't want that to happen. So we are we're giving it more latitude than we used to most people probably realize that Anonymous things in the paper or not. Exactly smiled upon things have more credibility if there's a name attached and the names are on these essays, but when it comes to Children, obviously what we want to do is protect them and at the same time get the message (00:09:27) out kids are pretty good one-liner. It's as far as writing one-liners. I'm impressed with these quotes that you pull out. Do you do you detect any theme at all in terms of what's on kids Minds our kids hopeful pessimistic or is it just not you just can't be discerned. What kids are thinking (00:09:45) what they're thinking is the same thing as the adult population is singing my you can look through an adult population and you'll find The Optimist and the pessimist and the cynics and the people who had bad experiences in life. And those are good experiences in life and the same thing holds true for kids. They're not all that much different from us a couple of the things. I've seen over the years that that Him to stay pretty standard is how passionately they love their parents and their families and how much they want to be told that they're loved. That's that comes across all the time. The other concerns about social ills about nuclear war about AIDS about those kinds of things seem to follow the pattern of whatever is in the news will affect the kids as well. I'd noticed that as they're concerned with nuclear war had had waned a bit in the last couple of years that have been very strong at the time when the Marines were killed in Beirut and when the Invasion of Grenada and all that and they wrote about it a great deal more just beginning to read the next the next group of essays, which is about if someone knows everything, what question would you ask I'm beginning to see a lot of War questions again, and they're very concerned this year as opposed to previous years about homelessness about people being poor and they're coming across as more compassionate than they have in the in recent years. (00:10:54) Here's one from November 1st of last year on the Mind work section in the start ribbond sexual stereotypes and Misty report. That sexual stereotypes still Thrive among kids and about six paragraphs down and Misty's report. She quotes Jenny Fontaine a 14 year old from Proctor who said boys would have to be credited with being better leaders. You can tell because a man has always been president wrote Jenny and she was one of several girls apparently who wrote to you and said girls can't become president because they aren't capable of doing the (00:11:29) job people are surprised by that but what the beauty of of having kids say things is they kind of cut through the nonsense and no matter how much we say. Oh of course girls can be president. The truth is there hasn't been a woman president and it doesn't look like there's one anywhere on the horizon. It's going to happen anytime soon and the kids look at what they see not necessarily what they hear and the message to adults is it maybe we should make the we should close the gap between what we preach and what we actually do they do believe that Barack girls are not going to get that far and then there are others where girls will say, I want to be the first so they have the kind of They deal with the possibilities and the reality just like we (00:12:07) do. Well, here's more evidence for the theory. I have that these kids that write to you Misty. Right the best one-liners. Here's a 14 year old from Magnolia writing the only difference between men and women is that men can scratch themselves in crude places and get away with it. I mean, you're right they cut right through and get to the essence of stuff. Well, I think that these mind work sections obviously touch a lot of people although I'm wondering about readership. What does it show who reads the Mind work (00:12:34) section? I don't know that we've ever done a study that says exactly who's got it. So all that I hear is from comments of from various people. One of the things that surprises me is that sometimes I get comments and people who aren't parents and who don't work with kids and they find it fascinating and they don't have that kind of vested interest that those of us who are parents have I've been told that we did one on self-esteem a couple of years ago and one of my co-workers daughters who is at one of the colleges in the area said it was posted on the bulletin board in the dorm that they thought that somehow Those kids at talked about was pertinent to two young college students. Someone recently told me and I was delighted that that he hears about mind works all the time from his buddies at the you who are in rock bands. And these are guys who aren't who are in families themselves, they don't have children and and you would think that it wouldn't be interesting to them but they're finding that it's interesting. I think the majority of course of the parents and the community and the kids we didn't School sometimes and and they read it at home as well. So it's difficult to pinpoint exactly who is reading (00:13:34) it. We should make clear that we're speaking with Misty snow the coordinator of the mind works section of the Star Tribune newspaper of the Twin Cities a section that comes out about what once every two months once (00:13:45) every three months comes out the first Tuesday of every month from October to (00:13:48) January month. Very good. We should also make clear that Misty snow is not a rank amateur. She is a parent of a seven-year-old son. And as we pointed out at the beginning of the broadcast, she's a native of Pierre South Dakota bachelor's degree in English from Iowa State University attended graduate. Look at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, Misty claimed. She does not have that secret novel tucked away in a bureau drawer somewhere that she's working on. She's been with the Star Tribune for nine years and we're inviting calls from listeners. We haven't heard from any kids yet who may have written or who thought about writing to mind works and I did enjoy getting a call from a young person who has written. If you'd like to call us the telephone number in the Twin Cities for your question for our guest. Misty snow is two two seven six thousand 2276 thousand listeners, in other parts of Minnesota who might have a question outside the Twin Cities can call us toll free no charge for this call at one eight hundred six five to ninety seven hundred a toll-free number 1-800-695-1418. Wondering if you're ever tempted and some of the more troubling letters to pick up the telephone and call the sheriff's office in some of these counties. (00:15:00) We had some people are concerned about that particularly with the one on fathers. There are some obvious abuse taking place and it's a very complicated question. It goes into a lot of gray areas and that particular case. Yes, like all the schools and I alert them to it if they aren't already alerted in another case. I've written a letter and suggested that maybe they will want to look into something a little further. So in those cases where it's absolutely blatant I can do that but what happens so frequently is that there will be something in an essay that you know, something is amiss but you don't know what's amiss and and what at what point is something reportable. I'm kind of haunted by one of the essays. I got several years ago when I don't remember the topic it was something about what was your most unpleasant surprise or something and a a child who was describing that when he was nine. It's father forced him to be just a puppy to death and I think it was that it was a farm family and maybe it was a runt of the litter and this child was writing about what it was like to be a puppy to death because he didn't want to in my mind that's horrendous parenting but is that something that a phone call goes out on and you say look into this. Is it symptomatic of something worse? And then what you end Wondering about is if someone were to do that and then find out that nothing nothing prosecutable was happening. Well that child take the brunt of that father's anger and will that child be taught never to tell the truth again, so I deal with a lot of gray areas that way and why the way I try to resolve it for myself as I take action on those that are the most the most overt and I try to get a lot of that into my introduction to the page so that it will at least get the message out to some of those kids that someone believes what they're saying and might make adults take more action than they've currently (00:16:37) taking sometimes. I read the Mind work section Misty and I look at the words. These kids are writing and I think no they couldn't have written this stuff some parent some overachieving parent was at their shoulder poking them and saying, okay now you write this this way now, here's a letter from Charlotte in Wayzata age 7. She wrote to you in October 1988 on the issue of growing up apparently in Charlotte said a person is grown up when they can. A farmer or a cowboy or an artist. Also, you are a teacher and you play with your children and teach your children to play violin and you stay up late at night. You also go to orchestras go for bicycle rides and hand. So is there anything about growing up? I don't look forward to yes. I do not look forward to this one bit when I grow up. My parents say I have to go and live away from home. I'll be very sorry when I leave, but I hope I'll find a home near my parents. (00:17:33) I believe most of what the kids right for one thing. I see it when you see it on a child in a child handwriting on tablet paper. It has a lot more effect than when you see it in kind of cold printing a newspaper the ones that concern me sometimes and I feel bad about it are the ones who are more teenagers who write extremely wonderful essays as far as the way they are crafted and a precocious and they're thinking in some of those cases if I choose to publish Alaska teacher, I'll say what do you think is this is this a student's work and almost invariably I get to be But she's a very talented writer and she's a very sensitive thinker one of the things that people need to keep in mind is that if I see 5,000 essays that's a that's a lot of essays and certainly there are going to be some very talented and gifted kids riding in and kids who just have the abilities of perception that are sometimes far beyond those are the adults around them. But I think for the most part they're definitely coming from the kids. It's also different depending on where they're coming from and that some Icy first drafts and I see through drafts if it's a writing exercise and they do some rewriting. (00:18:35) Let's find out what a couple of our listeners are thinking or wanting to ask about our guest Misty snow and we'll go to you. Go ahead. We're listening. Yes. I was curious about when you're going to do one another. I should say (00:18:49) a couple of years ago. We did one on working mothers how kids felt about working mothers and mothers kind of had to take their lumps with that one a bit. I'm planning on asking the same question. I asked her father's next year sometime so that we will have equal time for (00:19:01) mother's you get lobbied by different groups of people for the mind works ideas do well reporters. Sometimes come to you and say listen, you should have a mind work section on this and such (00:19:11) not much. I'd welcome more suggestions. I decide the topics and the summer so the so that it's set for the next year and sometimes that's a problem with people will call in mid-year and think that there's a question that should be asked right now and it's set for the year, but I'm welcome. I welcome suggestions (00:19:27) from people. Let's go to another listener call and it's your turn. Misty snow is listening. Go ahead. (00:19:31) Hi. I'm wondering if you have any particular criteria that you use when you're deciding what letters will be published the way I look at it is one of sometimes people call it a writing contest and we've tried Stay away from that language as much as possible. And I don't see it that way when I'm putting my nerves together. The one thing that I want to accomplish more than anything is to replicate for the reader what I went through reading reading all of those essays. I want to cover the whole Spectrum. I want to represent some of the very best writing and I think every page does that there are those that are definitely in there because of writing is extremely good. I want to represent a variety of ideas and I like creative thought and some of those that are more provocative and those that there are always on every page. There are there is at least one sa maybe more that represent the mainstream the normal so when I look at it, I know that sometimes people think well, why did that get in when when the one I wrote was certainly crafted much better? It's not a contest to see who can write the best. It's a contest to say. It's not even a contest. It's a forum. It's a way for kids to say say what they want to say to people and I approach it that way and I'm sure that that's frustrating for some of those kids who write their hearts out and they know they've written good essays and they're not being (00:20:41) published. We have a few lines open if you'd like to call with a question for our guest. St. Snow at 2276 thousand 2276 thousand listeners outside the twin city with in Minnesota can call us toll-free at 1-866-553-2368 the newspaper happy with the series. I mean did did the newspaper expect to sell a lot of ads because of mine works. Do you think (00:21:06) no that's one of the nice things about it is that if people would notice that we've always devoted an entire page to it. There are no ads on the page, which is nice. I think the paper is quite happy with it because it's grown every year when we first started that it started out as kind of an experimental project and nobody really looked beyond it running for for just nine months. And then the response was such and they are thinking about it was such that we decided to keep going with it. So there is it there is a definite commitment to it (00:21:31) here is December 1988 the mind works section on the drug issue and kids essays and not surprisingly you selected letters that came from young people who are just a bit older than some of the other ages you selected and Here was a 15 year old writing in from Spring Lake Park who attends Spring Lake Park High School and she wrote whenever the subject of drugs comes up. You can hear many parents saying how their child would never do anything like that or how they themselves never did it as a child. You can also hear them preaching to the kids about how it's wrong. The only thing you never hear about is how drunk marks dad came home last night or how high Sally's mom got at the last party many people think that kids discover drugs on their own or just take them to be cool. The truth is that many kids who are drug abusers today picked it up from their own parents and then the letter goes on for a couple of more paragraphs. Well, these kids seem pretty (00:22:26) smart to me. Miss are very smart and they don't like Hypocrites that comes out all the time. They're very they I think sometimes people think that these kids exist in some other world that somehow there's is barrier between the kids World on the adult world and maybe that was was more true in years past. It's not true in an age where there's television and radio and there's Everything bombarding them all the time with information about the world out there. The kids are very Savvy. They know a lot about what's going on. One of the difficulties is they sound so Savvy that it's easy to overlook that that some of that they know about is troubling to them that they might have the language to be able to explain all these things that are happening that are far beyond what I could have expressed when I was 13 or 14 underneath it is kind of a troubling undercurrent that they don't quite know what to (00:23:08) do. Hmm. Let's go back to the telephone and take a call from another listener. Where are you calling from, please? Hi. I'm calling from Bemidji State. I'm a teacher educator here and I'd like to ask Misty about the form of the personalized essay as an educational tool. There's a movement in many of our schools in the state and across the country to encourage children to write personalized essays even before they can spell and use grammar correctly as a way of introducing them to writing and actually learning to read through their writing and I'm hearing from teachers and older elementary schools as our other teacher Educators that when kids begin writing this Why even in kindergarten and preschool and carry it through that their writing skills are more developed in fourth and fifth grade, but there is a little bit of controversy of using the personalized essay as a learning tool in the classroom. And I guess I'd like Misty's view on this (00:24:00) one of the things I discovered over the years is if I want interesting responses, I ask a question that has to do with their personal lives. They are much better at writing about their personal lives for obvious reasons. They're not so good at writing rhetorical things. I think it's I think it's a good way it gets the kids involved in in thinking about their own feelings and perceptions. And one of the things that I've seen outside of the writing issue is that they don't think that people as a whole communicate particularly well and they don't they're not very good at expressing their feelings if they can start that early on by writing. I'm all for it. People asked me to about the mechanics because obviously these these essays don't come in quite so neat. Sometimes there are a lot of spelling errors a lot of grammatical errors a lot of punctuation errors all of that and I've read so many for so long. I when I first started the project I thought Having an English degree. I thought I'd be driven Crazy by all of this and it didn't take very long to not even notice anymore because what so much more important are the ideas. I don't think the two are are diametrically opposed and certainly this there are there are there's evidence from schools where the essay comes in and it's personal and it's wonderful and it's also it's grammatically correct and all of those things that can be done. But if you have to offer one of the other eye out for the personalized part of it because it has a greater life than just the writing exercise. It means that that there's discussion going on between peers and discussions going on between teachers and kids and kids and adults that wouldn't happen. If they were still writing these very formalized things when we first started the project it was based on Journal Juniors, which ran from 1898 to 1913 and it was the same kind of thing. They ask the same questions that we asked the first two years and they and I saw the essays that were published then and they were in some ways and an English teacher's dream. They were it was formal English and it was florid prose and and the sense I get when I Those old assays is they weren't particularly honest that they were riding for something other than self-expression. They were writing in part because they in many cases they were the children of immigrants and they were dealing with second language and they were learning English and they wanted to do it formally incorrectly. But there's a lot of Life missing from those essays that I read back then and it and you don't find out very much about the kids as people and granted it would be nice to have both of them work, but I would come down for the personalized sa every time (00:26:14) let's take another listener call and find out what's on your mind. Go ahead please Misty snow is listening. (00:26:19) Yes. I was seen as a very precocious child both my parents were psychologists and I believe I did pick up my vocabulary from them. They became worried though as I was about 13 or so my ability to express myself, orally and written wise was outstanding but my ability to feel my feelings is very difficult. And as you said earlier in the program Let you do receive letters of children that right very well and and this the host of the show. He was wondering do you sometimes wonder if these are children actually writing these letters do you sometimes feel that these children do have hard times expressing their feelings with other people? I think sometimes I do and that what I see unlike some people some of the kids I worry the most about it those who are the high Achievers and I see there sa come in and and they're writing about having to be perfect and and having to do everything correct in the writing about the pressures and even as they write about them and making sure that they write them in a very good way. The pressure is right there. They can't escape it at all what I notice most about the kids who express feelings is vents down kind of gender lines that the girls are better at generally writing about their feelings in a variety of ways from the boys. Are it very so much. I think that there are a lot of kids out there who probably were like you are like the way you were as a child. That the pressure of being so smart and so precocious kind of rides on them all the time. And yes in some cases. I think it gets in the way. (00:27:52) Here's a letter that was written to Misty Stone mind works for the November 1988 section on gender differences between boys and girls and here's a thirteen-year-old Sheila writing from the Twin Cities and she says boys and girls are different from each other in several ways. Each sex approaches most problems in the absolute opposite way boys are more outspoken than girls are if a girl has one hair out of place she'll hear such comments from a boy has ever heard of a brush but if a boy is wearing a red and white polka dotted shirt with a pair of green and blue striped pants a girl will almost always keep quiet about it. She may discuss the fact that the boys clothes Clash among her friends but a wisecrack says such as are you colorblind would be considered rude so it comes out in different ways the point that you raised earlier. Is it what you seem to pick up in the letters? It is that for all of the worldliness at these young people Express. There is still that cry either overtly or sometimes written between the lines in the letters for affection the need for closeness. (00:28:58) Absolutely that comes out all the time that they they want. Even those who say they know their parents love them they say but why can't I be hugged or why can't I hear it in words and if you stop and think about it and I thought about it over the years because I see it over and over they aren't asking for much more than what I got adults are asking for and that's the reassurance that they're loved and they're worthwhile and they respected and they can have affection. It's not much different is just that when they cry out for it. It's so much more painful at that age because they're not sure they're ever going to have that and that's one of the things that that I hope mine works gets across over and over and over again. Is it for whatever kind of veneer some of these kids put on underneath there are still children who are in need of a lot of love and there's also a sense that some of them might not might feel uncomfortable. They might feel like adults can't keep control anymore. I felt that the most in the drug issue kids could write so many sophisticated things about the drug problem and underneath was a sense of why can't grown-ups take care of it. You know, why is it affecting us if grown-ups were doing their job? We'd be safe from all of this. So I think there's some dismay and their parts that that maybe the world isn't being as controlled by grown-ups as they wish (00:30:05) you talked to earlier to a caller about this issue of whether or not you feel the young people who write to you are really up to the kind of critical thinking and forms of expression that some of the very early letters to the journal Junior series at the turn of the century and I wondered if you detect anything that television or other kinds of electronic media certainly not radio, but perhaps television has done to Decay the brain matter of the youngsters and really affect perhaps the way they look at the (00:30:33) world. I'm pretty anti TV myself with hard to it's hard to her fans that but I don't see that there's certainly no decaying mental ability on the part of these kids. What happens is if people are willing to take the time to find out what's on their mind is certainly a lot on their minds. They are not, you know, brain-dead zombies. We do nothing but play Nintendo and watch TV. One of the things that that I thought was interesting that came back to us is on reading a the father's it's a number of kids who said Dad's turn off the TV and for all this time, we've been blaming the kids for being in front of the television set and we just and we do that a lot we want to say. Oh the kids are doing this the kids are doing that and we refuse to look at what we're doing as grown-ups and I thought that was very interesting that they're the ones who are saying Dad don't play Nintendo for an hour and a half after work. Don't go play your computer games. Don't sit down in front of the TV with a beer so it works kind of both ways there are but definitely there just as human and Lively and interesting as kids have always (00:31:29) been about 20 minutes remain in our conversation with Misty snow the coordinator for the Mind works section of the Star Tribune, which he has very helpfully pointed out to us is a very old idea from the turn of the century but has a reincarnation within the past half dozen years of the mind works title in the Star Tribune and we're inviting your questions. If you have a question or comment for Misty, please call us in the Twin Cities at 2276 thousand 2276 thousand and listeners from outside the Twin Cities with in Minnesota can call us toll-free 1-800 6-5 to 9701 800. Excuse me. Hmm one 865 to 9700. Do you detect any breakdown in rural versus Urban in either the amount of mail you get or the kinds of topics that young people are interested in or even in the way they express themselves. (00:32:23) We get a lot of essays from rural kids and that's been interesting is one of those things that eventually someone will sit down with all few hundred thousand of these assays and break it down and do some real serious analysis of it what I've noticed. About the real kids is that their biggest difference from City kids as they work so hard and they're much more acquainted with death and difficulty because they live on a farm. They're they're expected to do chores before they go to school. They expect to do chores when they get home they work very hard and because they live on a farm they see a lot of animal life and they see a lot of death and they have to for want for instance. One of the essays that moved me the most was from a boy and a farm who wrote about the hardest thing. The best thing he ever did was to kill his dog because his dog had been hit by some farm machinery and he had no choice but to kill the dog he had to do that at an early age when he was 11 or 12. So they see that so I think that perspective is very interesting that they're dealing and kind of Life Death issues out there and hard work issues, but when it comes down to things like fashion and rock music, there's not much difference when it comes down to their thoughts about drugs and the kids in the city starts about drugs. There's not that much difference either. They are subjected to many of the same pressures and much of the same media message. And so they're in some ways becoming much more similar probably than they were Years back, (00:33:35) let's go to the telephone and find out what this caller has on their mind. It's your turn. Go ahead. Please good morning. Good morning, John islands and reamer Minnesota reamer and you know reamer is well-known tell us the Grand Rapids. Of course, I knew that I was just checking to see if you knew John we are at peopleís family. We unplugged our television about three and a half years ago. I think there's a law against that sometimes and we have three boys 85 + 3 and I guess although I see their Play Habits much improved from where it was before we had when we watch television and we spend a huge amount of time reading and the boys are very creative and they do well in school. I'm kind of worried about the cultural effects and how we might overcome and I can't do crossword puzzles anymore because they asking who's the star of such as this TV show now, we also get to videos and all about a once a month basis and we sit down as a family and we watch movies together in the Kids go to bed my wife and I watch some of the newer movies. But how do we overcome some of the cultural effects of being a TV list family now, you can read the newspaper, (00:34:44) right? That's part of it. Right? Well, that's very interesting because what it what it touches on is kind of the Crux for all of us as parents and certainly something that I see all the time in mind works. And that is that on the one hand we want to protect our children from these influences on the other hand. They have to live in a world full of these influences. So how do we balance that? And I think that's something parents have to deal with pretty much on their own the way I've expressed it before it's really struck me that that kids have written in sometimes and talked about the truth about Santa Claus and I won't publish them because I refuse to be the one who disillusions those kids out there and and then that hand in that way I'm acting as the protective parent. I want there to be myth and I want them to be this kind of joy and I'm not going to take that away on the other hand. However, if you use back when we did a piece on rock music might introductory paragraph had the word sadomasochism rape and bondage. And because the kids were writing about that and that's the reality and I'd be amiss to suggest that it's not that they that that there aren't kids out there who are writing about songs that have to do with having sex and elevators that's also part of the reality. And so I think that's one of the dilemmas that most of us parents faces we bought up against what we want for our kids which is to protect them and keep their innocence and we also want them to be prepared for the real world. And that's something I think we have to wrestle with individually. (00:35:59) Let's go to the telephone one more time. And it's your turn. Go ahead. Misty snow is glistening with has been a real interesting program. Thank you. And you've been asking her excellent questions as well. I appreciate the questions you've been asking. (00:36:11) Mr. You said you weren't thinking of writing a book. I would like to suggest that you reconsider that and do a compilation or your own ideas (00:36:19) about things that that you've been talking about this morning. I really appreciate your insights. Thank (00:36:24) you. Thank you. I'm not going to write a novel there definitely is a book in mind works and whether or not it gets done anytime soon is up for grabs. I don't know but One of the things and I'm glad you recognized it is that this is just a treasure Trove of information that all of these essays and up at the University and I'm told that there is no collection like this in the United States possibly in the world. There is a lot more that needs to be said about it all (00:36:48) let's talk about that for just a minute because as you pointed out a bit earlier, this was an idea Journal Juniors now mine works which originated with people at the University of Minnesota years ago. So what's done with all of the letters that go to the university. What are these people looking (00:37:02) for? Well, they're right now they're trying to establish some guidelines for how they're going to use them for research, but they have use them for research over the years. They all go to the Center for Youth research and development and I'm not familiar with all the ways that it's been used in research. I know that they quoted in various Publications that graduate students come in and ask specific questions that they want answered and and that people are looking at them both because of the language content and what they can learn about kids riding and they're also looking at kind of the social issues part of all of them Beyond what's being done. I think it's going to get a little bit bigger probably. Because the collection is growing in the and the topics are becoming so important, but I'm sure there will be more Publications coming out of (00:37:42) them. Let's go to the telephone again for another listener. And it's your turn. Go ahead. We're listening. Hi. I'd like to know if you get letters from children who are abused and if so, do you report? It is confidentiality come into play. (00:37:55) We talked about that a little bit earlier in some cases of overt abuse. Yes. I talked to school I talk to the school counselor in many cases what I try to determine is whether or not a teacher has already seen the essay and in that case they are required to report and as I mentioned earlier so much of it falls into a kind of a gray area between just needing to reassure a child and eating to alert the authorities. So it's handled on a case-by-case basis. (00:38:21) The issue of the confidentiality and and the trend that you see developing we certainly don't want to end this conversation on a negative note. So I think we can cover this now and move on to some of the other issues associated with mind works. But one of the points you made to us before you came on the show was it you do detect a general Trend in the letters you're getting and it's not a very hopeful (00:38:41) Trend. Yeah. I have a I have a sense that there are a lot of hurting kids out there. I got a letter from a teacher recently. I got a couple of letters recently one said that for her children in her class when they had to write about Father's many of them were in tears and many of them wouldn't put names on their essays because they were afraid of their fathers that wasn't an inner-city school and I'm a few days later. I got a letter from someone at school a rural school who said that she was surprised how traumatic it was for the kids to write about this and she said that she was grateful for mind works because it provides therapy for a lot of hurting kids and I've heard that from other teachers as well. I think there is a lot of pain out there that that whether it's because of divorce or economics or the fact that we adults are so often beset by our own problems that we're not paying attention to the kids to some of the kids are feeling like there's some massive neglect (00:39:27) all right here was a quote I was looking for a Miss yeah I knew I had read this I'd lost track of event excuse me ñ and this makes the point again that these kids are great one line artists and here's Dave age nine writing from Chanhassen where he says and this is the mind works topic on growing up I look forward to being able to walk down the sidewalk and have people saying to themselves hey that guy looks pretty grown up he matches he wears deodorant and from his clothes I can tell he is a fairly well paying job so there you have a Dave has a perfect sense of what it's all about being grown up (00:40:00) don't you think I love that because it keeps me going when I'm reading them I read some really dismal Grim things and then the next moment I'll be reading something that makes (00:40:08) me laugh and then thirteen year old Ingrid from st. Paul writing and well this is kind of grim but I don't take it as Grim as she's this is on the Mind work section regarding gender differences in sexual stereotypes Ingrid In this quote that you took from her letter says girls are not the kind to kill someone but they will pay to have someone do it, you know. So there's you all of us Ingrid has a clear sense of how things are done in the world. That's right. I don't know I guess some parts of your job strike me as being very rewarding. I mean you get these letters which obviously some of them are very negative and and must be kind of dark but then you get these highlarious letters that most his drive you to the wall with laughter and I bet the colleagues Around The Newsroom are glad to have you around because you can shovel these around and they get a few laps to (00:40:55) I don't settle many of them around. It's a wonderful job overall because I get to see so much that's important and that's real and it one of the personal benefits that come from it is I'm a much better parent than I would have been had I not been in a position to read all of these essays from all of these kids. It's it's a delight through often times. I wish that that more people would have the opportunity to sit down and spend their days reading these things. It's a real (00:41:17) education. We do have a few lines open if you'd like in the remaining minutes. This conversation put a question to Misty snow or a comment by all means call us in the Twin Cities at 2276 thousand 2276 thousand listeners outside. The Twin Cities area can call us toll-free in Greater Minnesota that telephone number is 1-866-560-4440 hundred. All right. Now, what's the advice? You said earlier that you work with teachers you get apparently a fairly you have almost a pipeline established perhaps in some cases. Well, what's your advice for teachers who really want to get in on this and get their classes oriented around writing to mind work? (00:41:57) Tell the kids try honestly and it to put some thought into it. Those are the most important ones and one of the things that teachers need to do. I see such a vast difference between classrooms and I know that some of that is because maybe all of its because of the way a teacher conducts the class if you can give those kids a sense that whoever they are is fine. I mean the most delightful essays to redo the ones where I know I'm reading an individual's work. Character jumps off the page and I feel like there's personality here that if teachers to just encourage their kids to be as honest as possible. That's what I want to (00:42:29) see sounds to me. Like you may read a few quite a few letters where you sense that the proof that the heavy hand of the educator is at the throat of that youngster and and constricting the flow of words. It varies very much. (00:42:42) Sometimes I can tell that if that the child knows it's going to be read by a teacher and sometimes that can put a little bit of a crimp in their style other times. It doesn't seem to matter the right delightfully no matter (00:42:52) what let's go to the telephone to find out what this listener is thinking go ahead. Please were listening. I guess. I certainly couldn't hurt much at Misty says but I do have one (00:43:00) concern. I'm a retired teacher 35 years in home economics where I felt I had a lot of personal contacts (00:43:09) youngsters with girls that other teachers (00:43:12) never and I one thing I'm so concerned about it doesn't have to be a very large school before these youngsters can read this in the paper. (00:43:21) And put their finger right on the person wrote it even if it is (00:43:25) anonymous because they know each other situation right? Well and I had youngsters bring that concern to me that do the other girls know can they guess I think maybe that's one of my real concerns. No, I think about that as well. Particularly. One of the things we sometimes forget living in a city is that small towns are really small towns and that people can recognize some of these things and that's something that the right now what we deal with is you might have noticed in on the page on Dad's a few were identified nearly as boy or girl. That was how we felt so strongly about the need for them not to be identified at that. So we went to those links in some of the cases were initials are used sometimes what we try to do is not use the school or we use the school and and not use the initials. We try to disguise them in some ways and and I'm aware that in some cases they're going to be identified. I hope that they'll be treated with compassion when they are (00:44:17) another caller on the line and we'll get to you right now. Hello, it's your turn. Go ahead, (00:44:21) please. Yes, I'm a teacher in Minneapolis. And I find and I enjoy reading mind works myself. But when the date for the next article is do excuse me. It's so soon that this time has raisins in scheduling and all that sort of thing. I don't have time to work with the kids or encourage them to write on that particular topic. Is there a schedule that comes out at the beginning of the school year or a little bit longer grace period so that we could do something of that sort. We do announce it in. We announce that in August. I think it is and we list all the topics I think twice and and also include a phone number so you can write in for the years topics and it is best for Teacher to have the years topics. We can't extend that deadline because I have to have time to read everything and so I've struggled over the years to try to decide what's what's a good way to do this. And what I've come up with is exactly what we're doing right now is it's published on Tuesday the next deadlines at Friday and I know it's a crunch but you can get the you can get all of the topics any time by calling me at the (00:45:18) newspaper. So the next one is due out in April. All right, first part of April and what's the topic (00:45:23) again? Imagine? There's someone who knows everything in the world. What one question would you ask one y (00:45:27) one question would you ask and why and what's the deadline now for essays on this it was Friday. So it was Friday. Sorry. Sorry. Never mind the stop right now if you're thinking okay for for let's see. What comes after April May. What's for (00:45:41) me? Another one? I think might be a little Grim about kids and how much they worry. Well, yes. What do you worry often? And what do you worry about? And then the final one for the year should be fun? It's what's the best idea you've ever had and why was it so special and so they're writing about things that happened. That's June good ways, right? That'll run that will be published in June. Right? What's the (00:46:02) best idea the deadline in May is what's the best idea you ever had? The deadline (00:46:07) in the deadlines are always the first Friday of the month first (00:46:11) Friday of the month. It sounds complicated messy. I can't handle it in my mind. I think we better go quickly back to the telephone if there's another listener with a comment or question. Go ahead, please. I just wanted to thank Misty for her work. I work for an organization in town here called prevention Alliance we go into schools all over the Twin Cities area doing counseling and training with kids and we use the mind works essays and so forth in our work a lot of the things that we do with kids revolve around those same topics of fathers and abuse and chemical health and things like that. So I just wanted to thank her for a work because we certainly use mine works in the things that we're doing out in the schools Misty's faces beaming and I have means the world to me. It doesn't affect I bet it does this is typical isn't this callers reaction of the kind of reaction you get sometimes of people who use mind (00:47:05) works because I feel like I work in a vacuum. That's just as I'm sitting at my desk and reading all of these things. I don't often hear back when I hear back. I'm just thrilled because I need a sense of satisfaction that it actually has had an effect on some things. But but when I do hear back its that for instance some Someone at the at one of the battered women kinds of organizations wanted some of the quotes from the sexual stereotypes page because I recognize that so much of it begins young. So I think it's out there and being used in a lot of different ways. (00:47:34) Well, I guess my favorite section now of the six or so that we've been surveying Misty snow in the past 15 minutes. I'm starting now to focus on this growing up sometimes because your editor or you have an unerring sense for these one-liners in you're just a sham all over the page here and there just a scream. Here's Patty 15 years old from Elk River and her little quote that's been picked out and put up in boldface print up towards the top of the page. You're grown up when you look at a mess and actually want to clean it up and then right next door to Patty. There is Joe from New Brighton and Joe is quoted. I look forward to being remarried because I've always heard the expression. The first is the worst and then right next door to Joe from Andrea age 8 writing in from Minnetonka where this October mind works last year was when I grow up. I want to work in a business but I do not want to clean my room and then finally 13 year old Jake writing in from bolus and Upsala High School. Another thing that will be good when you're growing up is hearing all those great jokes. Your dad says you can hear when you're grown up. I don't know kids have some very specific ideas, I guess about growing up and all things work. Well, how long you going to keep this up? How long you going to be the mind works coordinator? Is there a burnout period for a misty (00:48:46) snow? I don't know. I'll be at it for another year or so. I'm sure of that and and hope that the project continues Way Beyond my involvement with it. (00:48:54) Are you soliciting ideas from people about other topics? I mean in six years time it would seem to me that you've pretty much covered it all that's left to right about (00:49:03) by the end of this year. We'll have asked a hundred questions and every summer I panic and think there's nothing more to ask and every summer I'm amazed. Of course, there are things to ask (00:49:11) where do where is your well for ideas to which well do you (00:49:14) go I mostly just try to think them up myself for my I try to look through different kinds of books and I asked Friends and however, I can do it. I come up with the ideas. But certainly I'm always open to ideas particularly in the summer when I'm doing my (00:49:26) planning if you wanted to put this together though in some kind of compilation. What would it be a collection of letters or would it be a woven account with your your observations? I presume intermingled (00:49:38) what I'd most like to do when I'm working on a book Proposal with one of the professors who started the whole idea is kids and how they view the family based on these based on the mind works essays which limits it to family which at least put some limitations on it and make it a book for the general public so that there are other ways to go about it may be a series of slim volumes the deal with particular things for instance of fathers one would make a very good slim volume to give to new fathers. However, we can do it to get get it out more and more would be (00:50:06) fine. I just thought of something else that mind works does and that's to help introduce the Young Writers to rejection. Obviously you print only what a tenth of a percent of the stuff that comes (00:50:15) to 50 at most out of 5,000. Usually that's one of the difficulties of the jaw. I know there are many disappointed kids out there when my daughter comes out and just encourage them that one of the things that I like to get across to kids is whether they're published or not. Their ideas are important because they give me a sense of what's out there. The only way that I can write about it and it's good for them obviously to put their thoughts down (00:50:36) on paper Misty snow. Thank you very much for coming by and talking with us and it was great to hear from you and thanks to all of you who called in with questions for our guests. Misty snow who is the coordinator of the mind works section which appears every month towards the beginning of the month in the Star Tribune newspaper of the Twin Cities and that concludes our midday calling broadcast for today bouncing. Bob Potter will be back from Memphis, Tennessee next week in this chair and I believe his guest is Educator Joe Nathan and the call in topic is the choice program in Minnesota a reminder that midday on Saturday is made possible by Ecolab and it's Chemlawn subsidiary. The time now is nearly twelve o'clock. This is Dan Olson reporting.