(00:00:00) Hi, I'm J.G. Preston. And this is portfolio. Today's topic is minor league baseball. Although I'm sure we'll get into many other things as well because my guest is entrepreneur writer publisher miles Wolf Among his many activities. He owns the minor league Durham Bulls fast becoming America's baseball team after the Summers movie hit Bull Durham miles wolf also add it to the terrific newspaper Baseball America. He's written a novel and has worked as a minor league baseball broadcaster. So it's open season for your questions for Miles wolf here on sport folio. Our number is two two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities metro area call collect at area code six. One two, two two seven six thousand with our guest miles wolf here on sport folio. Miles wolf. I've been reading your newspaper for years. I enjoyed watching your ball club, or at least a movie version of your ballclub play at the big screen. It's nice to have you as a guest on sport folio. Thanks for joining us. (00:01:12) I'm here miles you there you there (00:01:14) miles? Jeff Walker turns around says what? That's think Miles can hear us Jeff. What's the matter? We hung out. I'm not that might be the other extension though. You know that sound like somebody else was on the SE now. Okay, we got problems now. A beauty of live radio is that anything can happen and that I'm almost guarantee going to guarantee you that I will be less embarrassed than you are or listener you tend to get embarrassed about these things not me. You know that kind of cold last night. I was just looking at the stuff from the Weather Service least up north of did Hibbing 34 degrees for the morning low yikes International Falls get down to 35 in the wee hours Duluth got down to 37 degrees in the Twin Cities 49 for the overnight low. St. Cloud got down to 41 our friends listening in central Minnesota on K. NS R FM 88.9 probably got a little bit of a chill last night and I have one of the most poetic forecast I've ever seen in my life here brownish smoke filtered sun is the forecast for today officially from the Weather Service with a high around 80 degrees. Say miles won't be able to hear me now. Yeah good. Very good. Well miles. Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate your joining us here for some Enlightenment on sport folio. First of all, let me say that I you can tell us how much you deserve for this but I enjoyed the movie Bull Durham and kind of made the Bowls, America's team, (00:02:31) didn't we? Obviously we didn't film it or anything. They want the producer Tom mountain is one of our stockholders. So Tom sort of got the project started and got the screenwriter to write it and all that but it wasn't our doing (00:02:47) certainly but but Tom had Durham in mind all the way with that one, (00:02:50) huh? He's a native. And the screenwriters a fella named Ron Shelton who used to play in the Baltimore Orioles organization Got His Highest AAA and then, you know since been to Hollywood but you know, Ron wanted to do a minor league story and Tom said hey, you know starting Durham see if you can make that as you know the place for it. He didn't demand it but it worked (00:03:11) what what's been the effect on your ballclub at the gate and through souvenir sales through the mail this summer is it really made a (00:03:16) difference? Well, yeah, we're always a good drawing Club, but it just did it really did up and souvenir sales have been phenomenal. So it's been a good (00:03:25) summer. You know, I was I was down through Durham once this goes back a few years. I wasn't able to get to the ballpark, but I was able to hear your games on the radio and it seems that area with the with the Research Triangle there and with the oh gosh that just the number of people in the number of young people that the kind of age you get for the real Baseball fans these days seems like you got a real lucrative Market to tap down there for minor league ball. (00:03:45) Well, it's a good sports Market with we've got three major universities right within 20 miles, North Carolina, North Carolina State. Duke University so they're all here. So with the ACC football and basketball being so strong it makes it a good sports area and then just in the spring and summer we sort of take over where you know for all the sort of people that use Sports as (00:04:06) entertainment. Now, when did you buy the ball club mouse? (00:04:10) I got it 1980 (00:04:12) and had there been a club in Durham in the right immediate past before that perhaps (00:04:17) there had been no Club from 72 to Lady till we brought it back but there's been a durable Club since 1902 right off and on and then it in the 70s when really minor league clubs all over the country were dying. This this franchise died and we brought it back in (00:04:32) Eighty seems like I read an article not long ago that kind of detailed some of the work you had to do in your ballpark their enduring when you took over just to make it inhabitable for minor league (00:04:40) ball. Sure. Will anytime a facility isn't used it runs down and gets a city city owned facility and they'd had some Recreation ball in here, but, you know minor league club you've Have the field in good shape and the lights and painted and all that. So so when we came back, yeah, obviously we had to resolve the field and put up a fence and do a lot of work but it was necessary to make it playable for professional baseball, (00:05:05) even though it was a municipal facility miles. You have to put a lot of your own and the stockholders money into fixing the ballpark. (00:05:11) Oh sure. I mean the city of Durham has been very very Cooperative but there's some things when you go to and they say, hey that really doesn't help us, you know, they still play Legion and Babe Ruth baseball in here. So it's a little bit cooperatives. They say OK we'll do this and you do that so over the years, you know, we've we put hundreds of thousands of dollars into the facility. Yeah. Wow. (00:05:31) Well now what's made the difference what's made that worthwhile for you to do miles? You mentioned in the 70s Minor League Baseball was stagnating and G's now just in the last few years. There's been a great appreciation of franchise values in the minor leagues. What was the difference between the The Bleak days of a decade ago in the boom times a day? (00:05:47) I think baseball is most sports are cyclical, you know, it has his ups and downs period uh down period late 60s early 70s Vietnam anything, you know associated with motherhood apple pie or baseball was not very popular. So so baseball was really an out Sport Pro Football at really surged up in popularity and I think in the 80s though baseball has come back Major League minor league level just all over the country. So we're just part of that that cycle where it's it's now, you know on a up (00:06:21) period I know you have own some other minor league teams. Do you currently own any others are just the Bulls? (00:06:26) No, I'm at we own the Burlington North Carolina franchise in the Appalachian league and we're part owner of the Butte Pioneer Butte Montana Club in the Pioneer League, (00:06:39) you know, you mentioned Buda remind me of something last year wasn't a last year that you guys with the with the Copper Kings had a deal where you were soliciting people. To buy a player's contract and kind of own a player for you. (00:06:50) Sure. I mean we last year we didn't have a major league affiliation in Butte. And so we said hey, you know you pay this player salaries virtually what it's you know, and if we're able to sell him to the to a major league club at the end of the season, you know, you'll get whatever money there is when we sell him we sold two or three players in a couple individuals made money, but we didn't have great response from that. It just it's it was tough to explain to people who didn't understand, you know, how minor the minor leagues work and how contracts can be sold and all this sort of thing. It was a gamble but from our point of view I having done this before with another club, you really get involved with a player, you know, follow what he's doing you really care. So, you know when you own is contracted it's a fun way to follow a team that was give the price was $2,000. I think for for the whole season contract. (00:07:40) Yeah. I saw I saw the ad for that and Baseball America early last season. I was just captivated by that I said, what a great present that would be to give somebody if you had enough money to buy. What to give presents like that sound like fun, but you say that there weren't a whole lot of responses. (00:07:52) No, I mean a lot of responses. People wanted to put out their money A lot of people were captivated as you said with very few when it came time to laying out the cash would do it. But I mean, we knew that I mean it's it was you know, again somebody with some just a long shot want to take a flyer on a ballplayer (00:08:09) miles wolf is our guest on sport folio here this afternoon on the Minnesota news source, I'm J.G. Preston. Our phone number is two two seven six thousand and if you're calling from outside, the seven-county metro area call us collect. The area code is 6122276 thousand our phone number here on sport folio with the owner of the Durham Bulls baseball club and also the publisher of baseball America miles wolf miles before we talk a little bit about the financial status of a minor league ball club and where you can make money and the some of the pitfalls to avoid. I want to talk about your newspaper for a little bit. I go back to the very first days of the old All-America baseball news back in 1981, but I just don't think anybody at that time thought that the baseball America would turn out to be the kind of industry leading newspaper that has become it's To be congratulated about now congratulate you right (00:08:56) now. Thanks Sam. You're one of the few people who would remember that it was all America baseball news our editor Alan Simpson started it in British Columbia back in 1981 and starting any Publications a tough go but we you know, we saw it and he really had a The Germ of a good idea there. And so we heard he was having financial problems with it and said, hey, you know come on to North Carolina and you know, let's run it from here and we he did and you know ever since then it's gone really. Well. We I mean for people who don't know what it is that we sometimes described as what the sporting news used to be 20 or 30 years ago. It's not quite that but it's it's just covering exclusive baseball major minor league College just all all areas of baseball are Masthead says baseball news. You can't get anywhere else and that's sort of what what our philosophy is on the paper to give baseball news. You just don't read in your daily paper. (00:09:53) I hope the hard Baseball fans that are listing of already found the publication because if you're really into baseball is just indispensable you get complete minor-league stats from from every League every issue twice a month. There's at least a short feature about somebody in each of the minor leagues and professional baseball and there's even some major league news and I know that's been a source of I guess controversy over the years miles. There was a time that I thought personally pretty strongly that it was a waste of time putting Major League news in your publication, but it sounds like at least having it there has really been an attraction as far as drawing readers (00:10:22) in here. We need to lead we always our cover story is always a major league story but it's a it's a feature that that you know, the real you'd only read in our paper that has to do with Player Development or where where this kid came from or feature. I think last issue was five years ago go we rated Gerald Perry and I've gotten to the other was as a top AAA prospects in baseball and five years later. I get I'm trying to remember who else name is mikkel resides (00:10:51) Harry Ransom ask what that was it Brad. (00:10:54) No, Brad, what Fred was rated number two? Oh definitely. So we rated Gerald a little higher and one out on that one. But and then the next issue coming out is going to have Roger Clemens and Dwight Gooden on the cover because the five years ago. They were rated the top prospect in class A and double-a. So we sort of sensor patting ourselves on the back and one way but also just showing you know that this is this is how the guys get to the big leagues and when we write somebody, you know, it's it's done with some knowledge, you know, we really talked to all the managers in the scouts. So as I say when we're doing a big league feature, it's more in this line, you know and how they got to be, you know, the big leagues their minor league career or what makes them special rather than just sort of a Fluff (00:11:39) piece. Maybe you've got a better idea as to how widespread this feeling really is but I find it a lot of people people love to be the first to know and that to me is the great advantage of baseball America is if you read it you're the first to know about a kid whether he's in high school or college or coming up to the minor leagues. I mean look at the excitement surrounding Greg Jeffries of the New York Mets, and I'm willing to say that 98% of that is directly related to your newspaper. (00:12:00) I think so cuz Two years ago, we write it in the top prospect in minor league baseball and he was just in class A at that time 18 years old, but you know, he was the top prospect. He wasn't anyway ready for the big leagues, but of talent and everything that goes into that we thought there wasn't a better player in the minor league and I think three years later we've been proven correct by just the way he's he's come to the big leagues age 20 21 and really done. (00:12:24) Well people are just least the people. I know again are just fascinated by that whole business of being on that Cutting Edge, I guess or whatever whatever you want to most of the people who play (00:12:34) the rotisserie leagues and that those sort of game players that draft players in the winter and have their own leagues, you know will read our paper and try to get nobody else in their league to read it so they can draft the best prospects and and when when when they're playing during the summer, we have a lot of people like that that just for their own leagues wanted want to know who the good prospects (00:12:55) are. And you know, I look at the inroads you seem to have made in Major League front office's, you know, whether they're criticizing you were saying well, All wrong about this or whatever they seem to be very aware of what you guys are doing in print and that's about the highest form of compliment. I think that anybody who's serving any kind of an industry can can have is to be part of the decision-making process. I guess you're on the table in the general managers office. You you play a role (00:13:16) somehow we do. I mean, we had a major league. GM fact called me personally about a month ago and we had written something that he thought was incorrect and we've got it out of the Philadelphia paper Philadelphia writer had written the Philadelphia Inquirer, whichever paper there. It was, you know, 300,000 circulation. We've got 35,000. He said I don't care that it appeared in Philadelphia pair of pruning peers and your paper in the whole industry knows about it. And you know, he was telling us why we were wrong Etc. So we did, you know, we were wrong did print a retraction but he didn't mind that it was in Philadelphia. But you know, when it appeared in our paper, he thought the rest of the baseball industry, you know should know, you know that that this was wrong and you know, we have much a lot of reaction like that and when we When we rank a major league organization is having the worst farm system boy of the people on the farm system really take offense or worried about their jobs because we we are the source right (00:14:14) now some of you listening may think I'm just doing a giant stroke here for baseball America, but I'm serious. I'm very impressed with the publication and as a guy who's involved in some Publications myself we often use I'll just Baseball America is a model in many ways. And I think the things you've done to have been real successful miles that really work the the lists the follow-up you talk about how you're going back and looking at what you were saying in predicting five years ago. I get a lot of feedback that people really enjoy that when you rank rank organizations, when you rank players as prospects within a league when you rank the prospects within an organization people of that kind of stuff and you've really got it down to a (00:14:50) science. Yeah, we rankings people do like so we do an awful lot of it. In fact, one of our columns did the 10 worst minor league clubs a few weeks ago talk about getting a reaction from those clubs. But you do you mean we do rank. We do put our neck out on the line saying hey, this guy is is a prospect and we aren't always right again in this latest issue a fellow Mike few enemies who got to the big leagues for a little but now is that a baseball he was one of our top prospects we've written a story on why he didn't make it, you know, what happened to his career because he was such a great great Prospect for the Expos. He never never made (00:15:28) it just to maintain the controversy and keep people posted when you're when you're patting people on the back for doing things. Well, you also have to have people at the bottom of your list and be ripping people sometimes I guess I personally am not cut out to be a publisher because I don't know if I got the guts to do that. But how do you handle that? I mean how what kind of feedback do you get from from teams from players from people in management? Does it does it become a real difficult thing to do or can you just let it roll off your back (00:15:52) for me? Personally, it's getting more difficult because I'm the only Minor league club so I can be accused of you know conflict of interest say when we rank the minor league clubs the worst ones, you know, why are you doing this how you know, I mean I'm within the industry, you know, as well as being on the outside criticizing it so so it's publisher. You know, it's I will I refuse to edit anything we put in there if I think it's libelous or anything like that. I'll say hey we shouldn't print that because you know x y z but if the guys want to put in there something that I don't like it goes in case in point our manager was arrested for driving Under the Influence this summer at Durham Durham. I didn't want that in the paper at all and needless to say it cause some unhappiness that this thing appeared, you know in baseball America, but I can't edit that sort of thing because then I you know, then I'm using my influences the will present the Durham Bulls to you know, this is not a house organ of the Durham. Ballclub, so so I have you know, I have a lot of things like that that are my friends will call and say, you know don't print this we just wrote an article on a club in the Carolina League that the headline says the worst club and organized baseball the owner of that club. Call me up. You know don't print that hey, I can't edit it. You know, I just assumed it wouldn't be in there because it hurts me within our league but our editors think this is an important story to run and it's gotta run. (00:17:25) So you really find that you have been able to keep your distance from the editorial side of things and and be able to let them do some things that you might not personally agree (00:17:31) with. Oh sure. I've got to that's the only way this works with me, you know, if I sold my minor league clubs then I could do it but I think it's best that our guys have the editorial Independence. You know, the only thing we say, you know, is it the truth, you know what we're printing in and would we print it? You know if it was somebody else, yeah. Hmm. So that's sort of the two criteria we go (00:17:54) by and I find personally I'm guess I'm just too much of a softie. But the more I know people the better. I know them personally the much less inclined I am to do something negative about the moon printer on the are anything else just because as you get to know people at least you understand why they do some of the things is that they do some of the things that look screwy to an average fan. Well, if you have a chance to have a rapport with the guy and can get inside his head a little bit while it makes some sense to you, you know, I suppose when you get into your position, you know, a lot of people around baseball so it yeah (00:18:22) the paper keeps getting bigger and more influential, you know, we see this problem with me getting pressure getting worse and worse. So I'm not sure where the lead but right now, you know, we're able to handle it maybe at some point. You know, we have to say something else. But again, I think people within the industry respect our paper and you know know my position and so, you know, we may not not print what they like or they may not want to talk to anybody reporters. But hey, that's you know, the way the media works. (00:18:55) Sometimes it certainly got to have some psychic value having this publication, but has it gotten to the point where it's also financially profitable now miles (00:19:03) the paper is not yet. It's very we were we keep saying that every year it's very very close. Unfortunately. Every time we grow we then we'll add a person or add some new typesetting equipment or do XYZ. I mean we used to think if we ever got the circulation of 20,000 we'd be rolling in money. Well, we're 35,000 in terms of subscribers and 15 to 20,000 newsstand every issue in all this and we're still not there because we keep we keep wanting to improve the publication and the quality of it. So You know, it's sort of will next year we'll do it. Well, this is next year now that we want to do it. So we think we've got a good shot to do it next year. If you know again we're going to have to train ourselves in and say okay, we're not going to add this piece of equipment or not going to do, you know XYZ this year that we may want to just you know have one year that goes down and in the black. (00:19:59) Can you really get a finger on a miles? How is this publication gone from a from a promising but real obscure specialized publication on minor league and amateur baseball seven years ago to having the kind of influence within the industry that it does (00:20:11) today. I think part of it goes back to the sporting news that they were bought by the times-mirror corporation. Well, maybe 10 years ago. I'm not sure exactly when and the times-mirror corporation of the Sphinx is started a few years back to made a conscious decision that they should be in all sports publication and it was a wise and profitable move form. Their circulation went from about 250 thousand to seven hundred thousand, but there was this void out there for A publication like ours and we just happen to be come along at the right time and I think with the right approach, I think again, the miners are booming as we talked about a little bit earlier about the Bulls. There's a lot more awareness of minor league baseball. I think Major League fans are a lot more knowledgeable now about how players are developed how they come through just the whole sense of baseball. Now, you know gives us an audience that maybe when we started seven years ago wasn't there or wasn't as big but just everything is sort of clicked that that there was a need for this paper and we've we filled the (00:21:23) void I got to admit as far as the sporting news is concerned. I've gone from being a subscriber to not even picking the thing up anymore. I mean we circulate it where I work. There's a copy of the comes in house and I won't even pick it up and read it anymore. There's a lot of things involved with that but I do know that they're there Market D emphasis of baseball going back a decade or so ago really was a big factor for (00:21:41) me. Sure, but as I say I think for them it was it was a good business decision, you know, I certainly have grown and certainly I mean they say, you know, they in a sense take aim at Sports Illustrated, right? Although they're not a slick there more hardcore sports news and we're just you know, we're hardcore baseball (00:21:59) moves. I think there are probably some teenagers and in our audience today who would be just amazed if they went back and picked up a sporting news, even from 20 years ago when it was head still kind of D emphasized baseball a little bit but to see full AAA box scores of every game played in AAA and to see just the the overwhelming amount of baseball news the the longer pieces on each of the major league teams. I think it's well within our lifetime certainly miles at the first non-baseball cover ran in the sporting news. It used to be an all baseball publication. (00:22:26) Yeah. I well. I mean I used to sneak down to the newsstand to to buy a copy because for some reason I felt if buying at the newsstand made it something my mother would approve of you know, who I'd sneak a copy, you know, it just was the sort of and just you know devour All these statistics and you know you just as a as a kid for for me the sporting news just really clicked, you know, and you know, what was Tito Francona doing at Oklahoma City or wherever he was playing all this with medicine so that you know, I think a lot of us grew up on the sporting news and loved what it was and as I say, I hope Baseball America feels some of that void (00:23:03) miles wolf is our guest on sport folio here this afternoon on ksjn 1330 and Cayenne S rfm 88.9. I'm J.G. Preston has 26 minutes afternoon miles is the owner of the Durham Bulls Minor League Baseball Club and the publisher of baseball America is written a novel and he's worked on the radio and he's done it all so you have any questions for Miles let her rip six one two, two two seven six thousand call us collect from outside the Twin Cities 2276 thousand is our phone number on a portfolio. Now you North Carolina native miles you grew up there. (00:23:32) I grew up. I was born in Baltimore, but I grew up in North Carolina. (00:23:35) Hmm and he spent most of your life in the south. (00:23:39) Pretty much. Yeah, you run ball clubs in Savannah, Georgia and Jacksonville, Florida Anderson, South Carolina good play by play in Richmond. So by and large in the Southeast (00:23:51) and your you'd gone to college in your younger days and (00:23:54) right I went to Johns Hopkins in (00:23:56) Baltimore. The most guys would come out of Johns Hopkins go on and get nice responsible jobs and you know have phds and all kinds of stuff. What happened to (00:24:03) you. I one reason I went to Hopkins was the Orioles were there again, I didn't tell my parents said but from each time I got kept getting cut from Little League every year and after got cut from Little League at age 12. I figured I probably wasn't going to be a big league ball player. So almost from then I wanted to run ball clubs really. So with the Orioles being in Baltimore, that was the closest major league team to North Carolina, you know, I went up there and whatever he spring go in and you know talk to their Farm Department see if they had a job with some my We Club I never got one. But but that was when Harry Dalton was the assistant Farm director and then Lou Gorman who's now GM of the Red Sox. He was the assistant form to record. So these guys but see this kid wandering and off the street walking to wanting a job so it goes back a few (00:24:55) years, but it wasn't long out of college and you actually had a job with the minor league to (00:24:58) yeah. I after I spent three years in the Navy and then when I got out I got my first job (00:25:04) right? When did you actually get into the ownership position for the first (00:25:08) time? Um when I bought the Bulls I had run Clubs mostly for the Braves Savannah and I've been up in Richmond. And again, I guess everybody feels this way at some point. You think you're smarter than your owners. There's not a knock anybody but just and I knew to run a club the way I wanted to I'd have to own it. So I just started looking around to buy a ball club and this is when minor league clubs had no value at all. So you literally could pick them up for debts or whatever. So, you know, I sort of raised enough stock among friends and family that you know to capitalize it and you know when you know ended up getting Durham which at that point was an expansion franchise in the Carolina (00:25:54) League. Hmm tell you what, we got a couple of callers standing by and st. Paul and we're going to get to them and get to you later on to if you'd like go. I'm here miles can hear us, okay. You got him up Jeff. Okay. Good. Tell you what, we're gonna take a break come back and get to the phones and get to your questions six. One two, two two seven six thousand is our phone number here on sport Foley 02276 thousand Our Guest is Miles wolf who is the owner of the Durham Bulls minor league baseball team publisher of the newspaper Baseball America talking about Minor League Baseball and anything else that comes to mind here this afternoon on sport folio here on ksjn 1330 Minneapolis-Saint Paul K. NS R FM. 88.9 Collegeville, st. Cloud. Good afternoon. This is Mark heisted encourage you to stay tuned to Minnesota's news source throughout the day today coming up at 1:00 this afternoon. It's the week in review on today's program. We'll report on continuing International concern over rocks use of chemical weapons will follow along with presidential candidates George Bush and Michael Dukakis is they launched their formal fall campaigns and will have an extended look at the unfulfilled promise of land reform in Mexico those stories and more on the week in review coming up after the news at one o'clock this afternoon here on ksjn 1330 and ksjn. NS R FM 88.9 I said you get me sick with that cold and you're going to be in big trouble. I don't care if I can't catch it from a tape recorder. I don't want to try 12:30. Let me read you that poetic weather forecast. Once again brownish smoke filtered Sun highs around 80 today with the east of southeasterly wind at 10 to 20 miles an hour. We'll have some clearing tonight though will be around 60 then tomorrow Breezy less Smoky warmer under mostly sunny skies and a high temperature of about 85. So nice weekend here in the Twin Cities. I'm J.G. Preston. This is portfolio and we have a caller standing by for Miles wolf in st. Paul Clifford. Hi. Thanks for calling. (00:27:39) Hi. I have a lot of questions, but I'll try to (00:27:43) that's your the highlights. Anyway, (00:27:46) well, I'm curious for an evaluation of the twins farm system in specific. I'm curious for an evaluation of the pitching staff the pitching prospects and just a point of fact. I'm curious how many minor league baseball teams there are Okay, I'm not the one to to ask on the evaluation are editors really know that and a lot more knowledgeable than I am. Although I know do know the twins have a good minor league system a year ago. I think they had an awful team at Portland. I think this is yours much better. The twins have six or seven minor league. Now they're they're close to a hundred and eighty minor league teams and most major league clubs the minimum minor league teams. They'll have our five and the most I think the Braves have eight minor league affiliates. So, you know, the minor leagues are how the big leagues get their players. They don't get them from college. They'll draft college players, but they still need this minor league experience. So that's that's how they get (00:28:47) them. And even with all those minor league teams miles are still a tremendous cry for minor league expansion in many parts of the country, isn't it? (00:28:54) Oh, yeah, there are lots of very many cities would love to have a minor league club these days but the major leagues aren't really going to expand their systems very much more the only thing, you know cities like that can hope for is that there's Major League expansion in which case they will need Minor League affiliates in there might be minor league expansion at that (00:29:13) point. In fact commissioner ueberroth. I suppose Bart Giamatti when he becomes commissioner, they've been emphasizing that any expansion team in the major leagues will probably have to have my League teams for a year or two before they actually take the field with a major league team which will be which will be different from how expansion has been handled in the past at the major league (00:29:28) level here, but that and that really is the way to do it. So you've got you don't have a New York myths, you know, when in 42 and losing a hundred sixteen or whatever they did their first (00:29:36) year and you've been involved in a non-affiliated situation miles with an independent minor league team that doesn't have a major league Player Development contract is that financially any kind of an attractive option key to getting kind of the second rung type of ball player. Can you make a go of it in the minor leagues financially (00:29:53) given the right City you can beaut wasn't big enough City. You can look at the Salt Lake Club in the Salt Lake City Club in the Pioneer League. They are completely independent last year. They won what 29 straight ball games? But they're in a Major Market they can draw well with a winning club and this is at the rookie level. You know, what the Villa friend of mine named Van July does is he signs? A lot of experience college players for Salt Lake City? Whereas Some of the club's may have high school kids are junior college kids that are better quote prospects, but you know any 22 year old is probably going to beat an 18 19 year old and almost any sport. So so he wins by having a little older ballplayers all the last year. He sold ten of his players to Major League clubs, you know, so it's not like he signed a bunch of donkeys. He's got some pretty good players (00:30:44) there Factory. Yeah, we've had one of them playing here in the twins system Bob pinky who I guess was one of the better hitters in that Salt Lake team that Wonder Ball games (00:30:50) when he eventually does a good job of scouting he finds players that many times have slipped Through The Scouting cracks or for some reason a kid will have a knock-on him that once he starts playing pro ball the skeletal. Hey, hey, you know, even though you know, he may have this weakness. He's hitting 380. We better, you know draft him and look at him a little (00:31:12) longer. But what you're saying miles is if you're playing in a situation where you're independent and you've got to pay the player contracts yourself you better be able to win and you better be able to turn that into fans in the stands if you're going to make a (00:31:22) go. German your as I say it would cost say if the Durham Club wanted to operate without a major league affiliate probably a hundred fifty thousand dollars more and that's a pretty big hunk of budget. So as I say very few, I mean the only club that is the voluntarily do it or Salt Lake City in Boise in the Northwest League because they're both rookie leagues, but the other independent clubs aren't doing it by choice. It's just that they can't get a major league (00:31:54) affiliate. Correct. We have another caller on the line in st. Paul for Miles wolf here on sport Foley 02276 thousands our phone number by the way to to 76 thousand. Hi Betty. Thanks for waiting. (00:32:04) Hello. I just wanted to ask how your miles feels about the appointment of Bart Giamatti and what that will do for the image of baseball in general minor leagues in particular. (00:32:19) Good question miles. What do you what do you think of mr. Giamatti? (00:32:22) Everything sort of this discussion around the office that said everybody feels pretty good about it. He's a guy who genuinely loves baseball appreciates it and I'm not sure mr. Ueberall for all his qualities. Which World there were very good. Genuinely love the game. That you know that goes a long way. So I think at the minor league level we're we're fairly encourage that he will be a good choice and will be good for the game, you know time will tell certainly but but I think everybody that I've heard of in baseball is is pretty happy with that choice. Mmm. (00:33:03) Thanks Betty. Appreciate the call. I felt a little favorably predisposed to mr. Giamatti because my my dad went to Yale and he's crazy about Yeoman anyway, so weird you have to get down and worship Bart for that reason, but I think you hit on the key factor the first and foremost the guys have baseball fan and it's been a long time since we've had a fan in the Commissioner's (00:33:20) Office sure and I'm again it's like a lot of jobs. There may not be a lot. He can really do by the time decisions get to him. He's pretty well handcuffed. I was thinking a lot of decisions but safe from a minor-league point of view. I think he will be sympathetic if there are problems if if we have to appeal for some reason Other that it hit I think it will be good for us. And I think obviously the big leagues that was unanimous. They feel it's good for them (00:33:49) miles from your experience with your clubs and from observing other clubs. What are the factors that really have the most influence on Minor League attendance. Is it the one lost record of the team? Is it the the identity of the major league affiliate? Is it your promotions is it your is a your whether one of the things that really make the difference in whether you're going to make it or not? (00:34:08) One loss record is not important. It's important to have an awful Club. Then it's important you really stink out the joint then and that's awful. But if you can be around 500, that's all you can ask. I don't think Major League affiliate matters either. I mean, we're the Durham Bulls where an affiliate of Atlanta Braves, but I bet half the people that come in our ballpark don't know that and it doesn't matter. We're there. We're Durham's Club. We're providing entertainment for Durham the Research Triangle Raleigh Chapel Hill. We you know, we're there to give a fan a good night's entertainment have fun, you know great night at the Ballpark. So from from one angle, we don't care if these guys make the big leagues or not. I mean, obviously we do for a personal thing because you want the every kid to make it but You know, we're here to make, you know to give good clean fun entertainment all that sort of stuff. So so that's a major league affiliate one lost weather of course is a factor, but you're gonna have enough good days. You know, I think what matters is Market size Stadium, you know, whether your facility is attractive, you know good for fans and who the who's running the ball Club? I mean, there's been an awful lot of articles on how profitable Minor League Baseball is lately and the worth of franchises. But the good ones are run by people who are professionals at what they do who are very very good operators. And and that's you know, some of these people buying clubs for these scenes of obscene amount of money don't really understand things like me going and buying a shoe store. I may wear shoes, but that doesn't make me an expert at shoes and I probably would buy the wrong Styles and do everything wrong a lot of these people come in and because they like baseball and been to a lot of games. They think they can run a club. Well gosh, it's a as I say the ones who the clubs that do. Well are run by very very good professionals sports management people and I would say if anything matters, it's who you got running your ball Club is what means whether you're going to have to have successful year or not (00:36:26) the kind of important things you're talking about. Just keeping the park in good order watching the nickels and dimes when you're when you're ordering equipment and stuff like that. And those are some of the key factors in (00:36:34) determining promoting promotions are very, But not spending too much on them. Just the atmosphere Club making sure your food is good. I mean everything that the fancies that you can control you can't control the team on the field, but you sure can control it there hot dog is hot that the restrooms have toilet paper that you know, it's a good experience that there's enough security there that that they you know, everything for that night makes it a pleasurable experience and you want them to come back. So that's that's what your front office needs to do. (00:37:09) What's your philosophy miles as far as ticket discounts or giveaways are concerned you do any of that in Durham, or is it full price for (00:37:15) everybody? We're pretty much of the full price school. You'll find a lot of different views. some of our promotions will be some discounts but But we think our products very good and we think that you know, people should pay when they come to see us. So we you know, we're that's only 3 bucks general admission anyway, so that's not going to break anybody. So we we really believe that that our product is good enough that we don't need to give discounts we and we met gimmick it up or we may have a bad night for kids or do XYZ. But but you know, I believe in my product and I think people should pay for it (00:38:01) got some more caller standing by for Miles wolf here on sport Foley 02276 thousand is our phone number if you'd like to join us to to 76 thousand call us collect from outside the metro area. It's six one two area code will go to Minneapolis next. Hi Jack. (00:38:14) Yeah. I have a quick question. Sounds like you may be in the process of answering it but I wondered how the expense breaks down between the the cost breakdown between the franchise operator the major league affiliate and what discretion if any Minor league operator may have in the selection of any sort of personnel on the field. Okay? Okay is a minor-league got operator. You have absolutely no choice or no say in any players on the field. You will talk with your manager, but that's more just to. You have to work together. You're you're working out promotions and all that but the major league affiliate has total say over the players. I mean and they may put some donkey out there and If you're smart, you won't say anything about it. I mean because you value your work in agreement tickets class a level where you're not guaranteed one. So we've had lots of players that we knew guys on the bench were better. But because the major league club had a lot of money invested them in them. They had to play them. I mean the scouts had to make sure that I mean you can't I mean they Major League owner may not know a lot but he knows when some kids been given a lot of money and so the farm Department the scouts protect each other and they'll just lots of times play these donkeys this to say, hey, we made a good investment when you know, your grandmother can tell you the good kid can't play but but as a minor league owner, you won't complain or I (00:39:44) won't but people should know anyway, that is the big league ball Club is playing all your players (00:39:48) are because they're playing this out salaries, you know, it's their ball Club on the field they can do whatever they want to me. That's the trade-off. I mean, you're you're getting the run this ballclub you're getting to keep the admissions in the concession profit and all that and the big Club is looking for a good place to to train their players and you want to give them the best field in the best lights in the best clubhouse you can because you want them happy and they want to because they're they're making it possible for you to operate because they take all the salaries. They take some of the meal money. They take a good bit of the bats in the balls. I mean, it's it's a really attractive what we call a PDC Player Development contract. So they (00:40:28) pay your manager and your (00:40:29) coach painting they pay the trainer so effectively you have to provide a place to play, you know transport the team to the visiting clubs pay most of the hotels good bit of the meal money and all that but everything other than that, the big league club takes care of so as I say they can play whomever they want to find lots of times. You know as a fan you hate it, but as the owner, hey, sometimes it's eating my trade off. (00:41:02) So your Revenue elements, then our admissions concessions advertising revenue and if you're lucky and lightning strikes, like maybe it has for you and Durham licensing, (00:41:10) right? Yeah, you you have all all those in the big league club doesn't share in it. I mean, if you make a profit that they give you a great Club, you know, you win six, you know million games. They don't get any of that money. I mean, but you know, if you lose a lot of money, they're not going to make it up either. So that's just the way it works (00:41:34) at least on about in Broad terms miles of what percentage of minor league clubs you think are making an operating profit no matter how slight during the course of a season (00:41:42) we used to say that in an eight-team League two clubs are making money for breaking even and to or losing a lot but that's changed over the last few years. I'd be willing to say You know for making good money to or breaking even and to or losing I think, you know again that varies from League the league but at the AAA level. I'd be surprised if say 80% aren't making money really (00:42:12) and of course that's not even taking into account the the asset appreciation that most of (00:42:16) you are undergoing. I mean, that's the that is that is a factor. You don't that the franchise is values of just really left up in the last few years. (00:42:25) I guess one thing that does surprise me about AAA clubs making money. I mean is suppose they should they're in the bigger markets, but my feelings about Triple A baseball miles is just it's it's become nothing but a kind of like a Stateside version of the Mexican League and it's just a Dumping Ground for people who've had a chance in the big leagues and you don't see the kind of exciting prospects and AAA ball that I think we saw 15 20 years ago now it seems to be a bunch of guys that well you've heard of him, but he sure wouldn't want to brag about it. I mean, we've got a pretty good example down to Portland with the twins. I don't think there's more than one or two legitimate guys who come up and make a difference at the major league level some they mostly they're just kind of waiting down there and staying sharp in case there's an injury up here and they have to come up and fill in I find that kind of disappointing. I guess certainly if I lived in a trip (00:43:06) A (00:43:06) market place. I'd find that very (00:43:08) disappointing. You're probably right but I mean they are the backup players if a if a big Leaguer gets injured innocence their marginal big Leaguers (00:43:18) and surely a lot of them still could play in the big leagues at least at that that Fringe level 22nd 23rd 24th guy sure. (00:43:24) I think what we've also are seeing is there's not a lot of talent out there and in any level of baseball. We're we're right now in the process of selecting are minor league Player of the Year and there are three or four good candidates and almost all of them have jumped two or three levels in one year of jump done. Well and they're all 2021 mean with a kid with good talent isn't going to stay long anywhere where it used to be you'd season the kid for five years and he'd have one or type two good years of AAA. Now if anybody hits 280 at AAA, they're pulled up to the big leagues by June. Yeah, so (00:44:09) you guys just don't rack up the big minor-league stats anymore. If they do it's a guy like well, Ken Phelps used to be years ago that almost no matter what he did. He wasn't going to get a chance until finally Seattle picked him up. Yeah guys like (00:44:19) that. That's it. It's sort of the over the hill guy who may hit a lot of home runs, but you know, it's just that majorly clubs are so starved for good talent that they're going to bring. These these younger players up very very quickly. And you know, I'm not sure why. Why there isn't a lot more Talent out there? But there isn't I mean there are a lot of players who can play baseball but the ones that make your eyes pop, you know that are really have the super Talent there maybe half a dozen to a dozen the minor leagues (00:44:59) for that reason miles does the prospect of further major the expansion bother you and How likely and how soon do you think that (00:45:05) is? I don't know if it bothers me because it's a I guess I'm looking from a minor-league point of view. It'll mean more minor league franchises and I think that's good for baseball around the country that baseball played in a lot of cities. It'll make more mediocre big league teams. But I think it's going to happen and I think 1991-1992 everything I hear. Hmm and I hear the same thing you do. I don't have any inside information. It just looks like once the players agreement is solved and the next TV agreement is you know signed which are 89 90. Then the big leagues will expand because there's so much pressure from Congress and these cities and you know that all the cities are building the new major league stadiums that they almost have to go into these facilities, (00:45:55) but is it your opinion Mazda? There's a real significant chunk of current Major League owners who would love to resist expansion with every bone in their bodies just to it goes back to an asset appreciation issue. There's so many cities crying for major league baseball right now that gosh if you had one for sale to be worth a ton of money and certainly bringing in 46 or however many new franchise that's going to cut down the the demand for your supply (00:46:16) sure. I mean, once that happens you're going to be out of cities. That can take Major League Baseball almost. So if you're San Francisco looking to move to Denver a few years back or whatever or somebody saying they're going to st. Pete there won't be these places to go. So, yeah, we think your franchise if you're dying in a city. T there's nowhere to move it. So I would think of our Major League owner. I wouldn't be overjoyed with the prospects of (00:46:47) expansion. But ultimately though you think it'll the major leagues will begin an expansion plan of their own accord without any direct intervention from (00:46:54) Congress. Yeah. I think they will. They hear again the threat of doing away with the antitrust regulations for him. No II, you know, they may not expand but I sure every indication I get is they (00:47:10) will do you think we're likely to see any franchise shifts before expansion may be in particular the Texas Ranger situation you could comment (00:47:17) on I don't know too much, but I guess I think that might happen if you think there's a better Market the White Sox to st. Peter whatever and you know, the threat of lawsuits out there if you leave the town with you're saying I'm going to leave Major League Baseball here is an expansion club and you're greedy enough and want a better Market you'll you I would think the existing clubs would want to pick off the Denver's in the st. Pete's or or wherever. Hmm. (00:47:46) So we mother's there's a chance any we might see a little flurry of activity here in the next year or two. Yeah. I do for instance the Minnesota franchise. I don't think it's a candidate to move but I definitely think it's a candidate to get sold and I think one of the reasons for that is because we'll see. I think we'll see some franchise values drop a little bit after the expansion when it comes (00:48:02) I think you know looking at the Minnesota club and they were rumored to be going to Tampa what four years ago and just it just shows though when you run a club right and do the right things. I mean and you're in a major league Market you should be able to draw well so somebody complains that you know, I can't draw here. You know, I think we probably should be sits you have to sell don't don't move it. Mmm. So, you know, I think you know, just just what's happened to the twins the last few years. It's just, you know, one of the now great Major League (00:48:33) franchise and all comes down to just win baby. (00:48:36) Yeah, Doug's a (00:48:37) lot of it got a call or here for Miles wolf on Sports folio in Coon Rapids. Hi, Tony. (00:48:42) All right. I'd like to ask you to be an exciting and then cyclopia for a few seconds. Okay. It was there a minor league team playing in Colorado Springs at Palmer Park in the early 1960s. The let it Colorado Springs has a club now, they just got one and they build a new stadium in the Pacific coast League the last time before that the Colorado Springs had a club with a 1957. They were in the old western league and that folded after the 57 season and they haven't had a club since (00:49:14) then you're going to cyclopedia miles. I have to ask Tony. Why did you (00:49:17) ask well because when I was about five some friends and I wandered into a park and there looked like, you know looking back I thought maybe that's what it was and obviously it wasn't. Oh Corrado Springs though. Always I think that area of Colorado there used to be some really good Semi-Pro baseball played out there and it may have been one of the good Semi-Pro teams, you know, which probably had, you know, real people, you know for admission and all that so it could have been you wandered into a semi pro game out there. I see. Well, thanks very much (00:49:57) for the call Tony. Appreciate it. Our phone number here on sport folio is 2276 thousand 227 6003 calling from outside the immediate metro area call us collect at area code six. One two, two two seven six thousand. We have a few more minutes here on sport folio with Miles Wolf the publisher of baseball America the owner of the Durham Bulls and some other things too. So we'll get a chance to get some some more your questions. I want to get back miles for men at the something that we touched on before and talking about the Salt Lake City situation. And that's the whole business of minor league baseball really as a place for Player Development right now as opposed to a place where you play to win and clearly at a lot of levels and especially in the lower levels. If you were going to play to win you'd probably look at 15 or 20 different players in the ones you had maybe older guys who didn't have the potential to get a lot better than they are but are clearly better now than the 18 19 year-old kids just out of high school or whatever the the play around the league. How do you think that influences Minor League Baseball? Do you think the minor leagues will be stronger if it were more of an open situation where teams were able to Play a strictly to win the pennant in that League that year or do you think people have kind of bought into the hold of it business of developing future Major (00:51:04) Leaguers? I guess I think they've as you put it bought into the development aspect. I you know as an owner, I would be much more fun to get your own players and try to win and and I think would be better for baseball but in my town if I were doing that, but again, the financial realities have to go It Alone is just such a tough tough go and you don't have the pick of the first line amateur players you get what's left over so, you know, maybe in a Durham we could go out and sign some AAA veterans or double-a guys who've been released and and have a competitive Club. But good young Talent is always going to win so we play a split season first half second half. So I always thought you know, I might be able to win a first half but by the end of the season the major league affiliates with the good young players who are you know, just developing cream Rises and they more often than not the good ones by by July and August or I just head and shoulders above above the old, you know washed up (00:52:10) guys. The Improvement comes at (00:52:11) quickly. Yeah, it does. I mean you can see it. I mean, you'll see some kid in April and May and got he's throwing the ball, you know, you can see it can do some things but by the end of the season, I mean they're you know, this guy's going to be in the big leagues within a year. I mean, even the class a level we've we had their Outfield 1980 had Brett Butler Albert Hall and Milt Thompson all now big league centerfielders and you knew I mean just you just knew all these guys were going to make it you could see them improving you could See their confidence level rising and that's what's fun about. The minor leagues is seeing some of these guys that got you know, you know, he's going to be in the big (00:52:53) leagues. It's got a call around here on sport folio from Minneapolis. Hi (00:52:57) Jim. Hi say hi from it seems obvious to me that there are several Major League clubs that seem to be able to consistently go to their farm system and and bring up the players. And in fact, they seem to be able to groom players and and they groom their farm system in their other clubs that just never seemed to develop that Knack. I'm interested to know from a minor league perspective. Which club you think is the best which major league clubs are the best and why Well in baseball America we rank them every year but the last couple of years Milwaukee we've picked his having the best farm system before that the Mets the Mets were producing the Darryl Strawberry's and the Dwight Gooden and all those but I think what makes a major league farm system good goes back to the scouts. I mean somebody out there I mean scouting is the toughest thing in the world least from my point of view. How can you can look at a 17 or 18 year old player and know that by age 23 24, he's going to be a big league star and the major league organizations with the good Scouts and then you've got a good player development the good farm system Etc, but the club's that emphasize this the don't go the free-agent route IE the Yankees signing, you know, these all the free agents that go with the system. I mean you look at the Mets. I mean they're going to be good for the next decade because they had you know, they had a great influx of young players. I think Milwaukee is going to be consistently good over the next five six years interestingly enough both Milwaukee and the Mets are run by X Orioles Harry Dalton and Frank Cashman the Orioles farm system in the 60s and 70s was the most productive. So this sort of training the emphasis on Player Development farm system getting good young Talent sort of, you know as worked its way to these two (00:54:51) systems. Well miles on afraid we have to go I want to thank you for being so generous with your time and letting us pick your brain and get to know you a little bit and we'll look forward to more issues of baseball America and continued success with the Durham Bulls. (00:55:02) Okay. Thanks very much. (00:55:03) Thank you miles. Okay miles Wolf the publisher of baseball America the owner of the Durham Bulls minor league club our guests here on sport folio had a caller we couldn't get to Richard. I apologize personally because I know who you are. Well nice to have you with us here on sport folio. I guess I should break the news to get some point that we're not long for this world. We got two more weeks with this programs portfolio leaves the air at the end of September. We'll be back next Saturday and the Saturday after that through the end of the month here at 12 o'clock noon on Saturdays. We're in the process of lining up some bang. Oh guests for you. We're going to go out with a bang. So I'm looking forward to these last couple of programs. My thanks to sue winking our associate producer in absentia. My thanks to David O'Neill who took care of the telephones and the hospitality with charm Grace and Style by thanks to Jeff Walker who really didn't make any mistakes today. It just sounded like he was having a hard time, but he fixed them all very quickly and made us out even better than it did to begin with so Jeffrey you're all right. Well, thank you for listening. I'm J.G. Preston will see you again next Saturday at noon here on sport folio. You're listening to ksjn 1330 Minneapolis-Saint Paul K. NS R FM 88.9 Collegeville. St. Cloud, Minnesota news source world and national news from the Associated Press is next and Mark High state has the weekend review. It's one o'clock.