(00:00:00) Hi, I'm J.G. Preston. And this is portfolio. Well, the man was sick last week in a pretty good excuse for not being here, but I care about him and showing up today damn barreiro Sports columnist for the Minneapolis Star Tribune. We're going to work very hard time pronouncing his name correctly today because a lot of you I know can't do it. For some reason we're gonna sit around and bat the breeze about what's going on in the world of sports today. We'll talk about the University of Minnesota situation. We'll talk some Timberwolves basketball with a man who's been on the Hoops. Beat two other times in his life. We'll talk about something will come up with something you can call us up and suggest some things to to 276 thousand is our number on sport Foley 02276 thousand with our guests and barreiro of the Star Tribune. All right ba RR e IR o very good Barrera i before e except in Barrera. I hear people say Barry Oh, but rerio was some of the other ones you hear Barrino but Rio and then there are a few that we probably can't say but for some reason it's very difficult for people to get a grasp on this name. Barreiro. Its most people think it's Italian, it's Spanish actually and I was a Portuguese like that that Brazilian little there's actually a city in Portugal name the barreiro believe it or not. I don't know if we own it that the family has any rights to anything in it, but there is one. Okay, so we got that much that much we have damn Barrera the unknown columnist, you know Hartman and racing and all these guys have their platforms out there and vans just out there writing. So I thought I'd invite him to come over and get acquainted with us today, too. Seven six thousand is our phone number on sport folio Dorothy Hanford sitting by Dorothy looks kind of bored right now. And I really hate for her to get kind of lazy over there. Don't think your tongue out of me Dorothy is not nice. So I give Dorothy something to do what you please to 276 thousand. Well, one of the many reasons I had for inviting Dan on the program today is before he came to the Star Tribune. What year and a half ago Dan? Yeah. It's been about December of 86. Okay before that you were in Dallas at the Morning News, correct? And there are some parallels that can be drawn from some situations in Dallas two situations here in our Twin Cities sporting scene today. One of the first we'll get into involves college sports Dallas, of course is the home of Southern Methodist University the one and only program so far that has had the death penalty instituted by the NCAA for football. Now you weren't actually there when the death penalty was handed down we're not in fact, I was already I was already up here you would let him down. I was obviously around it. When a lot of the stuff was coming down and Revelation started coming, you know coming out, but the decision came down I believe in February of 87 That sounds right now and were you involved in covering SMU Sports at all when you were in Dallas a little bit not a lot. I was aware of a lot of things and at that point really there were also a lot of developments concerning TCU, Texas Christian University, which is in Fort Worth nearby. In fact just about every Southwest Conference school had something going on. Somebody was joking that, you know rice was going to win the Conference football title by default because everybody else is gonna be on probation. It's almost close to being true. Yes, definitely. Maybe you took away from that some of the lessons of the Southern Methodist situation that might apply at Minnesota right now. I mean at SMU they've they're trying to rebuild the athletic program course basketball was never exactly on probation or anything but everybody gets tainted by that same broad brush and SMU Now by Southwest Conference standard seems to be I mean almost the emphasizing football. They they hired Doug single as the athletic director. He had been at Northwestern which of course he was there more from the I don't know academic, but at least the intellectual standpoint the We're not just out here to win football games standpoint. They've hired a football coach now Forrest Gregg used to play for the Packers and has no College head coaching experience, but they've been in the process of building this thing back up from scratch right there. They're basically starting over there trying to make an attempt the biggest problem. They had there's some similarities and there are some differences between the Situation's here and there the biggest problem they had their was with a very rich group of alumni that basically felt they could do whatever they wanted to do and they wanted very much to have a very good football team and they went out and bought it. Basically what they're attempting to do now is is to sort of set up some safeguards where there's some distances set up between alumni and the university there. In fact, there were seven or eight alumni who were basically banned from having anything to do with recruiting whatsoever in these were these were guys who were determined to have been the bag men and in a lot of cases they're trying, you know, SMU is also different in the sense that it's a private institution. It's a much smaller school and so forth what how successful they're going to be. It's very hard to say the truth is even in its Heyday when SMU football was very good. Their attendance was not they there they did not have great crowds. I get 35 40 45 thousand part of that has to do with the student base population years the student population are plants, which there aren't that many students. So yeah, they're basically starting over there. A lot of people cynic who are still cynical down there that that it's ever going to really change completely. They're they're doing what they can to hire the kinds of people they think that will do their best to ensure that will that will not look the other way, which is one of the interesting issues about this whole subject. I mean, it's very hard coaches will tell you it's impossible to know everything that's going on athletic directors will tell you the same thing and to a degree they are right. The problem comes in though. It also becomes a very ready made. Excuse to saying well, I didn't know it was going on. I mean, I can't keep I can't stay in control of everything and what they're trying to do to us mu and what I think might be important for you University officials here to realize is there's an importance in creating some accountability and making it important that the athletic director and the coaches do find out what's going on. And if there are strange things going on that they ask questions that they not look the other way at SMU. That's what happened. You know the head football coach knew something was going on wasn't exactly sure what didn't really want to know and sort of stayed clear of it. And what you have to get is people who aren't going to look the other way and what what they're trying to do their through the athletic director is say we're not going to let you get away with looking the other way. We're going to hold you accountable as much as we possibly can. Yeah, so you better go out and find out because if you don't it's not going to be good enough excuse, you're not going to necessarily save your job and basis of saying I didn't know and clearly that's what happened to Paul Gill here at Minnesota. We have to fix our the interim president said that's not good enough. You should know what's going on in your department. I guess none of this the Luther darvill stuff has been proven and I suppose I shouldn't talk about it as if it were fact but clearly couple hundred thousand bucks were missing right from the darvill funds that were accountable. I got to think with as many people singing about this is there are that there were certainly some athletes football players ever heard about with basketball players, but at least football players who were able to get money from dollar bills office and the excuse has been with our bill didn't work in the athletic department. But heck the the football players did and I've got to think if the problem where as widespread as it appears that it is that somebody should have known that something was something funny was going well or at the very least if not known something funny was going on notice that something was going on or or ask questions. What does this guy do? What why is he around as much as he is, you know word. It's amazing. I mean word gets out on things. I refuse to believe that this can all be that big of a secret little thing. Get out people hear things. Usually they just don't follow up on them. Sure. The important thing now is that the administrators have to follow up to have any chance to run a quote Clean Program and maybe that's impossible. I don't know but to have any chance that's you have to ask questions. You have to have a Hands-On guy who is content is really being very nosy. And I mean and is constantly asking his coaches and even athletes questions. What's what's going on? What's Happening? That's that's your only hope for at least try keeping things under control, but you're feeling down about how widespread money for athletes. Is it you know it Southwest Conference, of course, it's everywhere but in the Big Ten where you're able to get a hold of at least a few hundred dollars when you need it or want it do it. Do you think it's is that the norm do you think I mean is this going on in other places too that it just you know, they do a better job of covering their tracks. I think it's pretty widespread. I know you know what I'm hearing from here as well if you look at any program. You can find whatever you want to find what there's there's an element of Truth in that but it's no defense sure. I guess absolutely put it because that's exactly the sorts of comments that I heard at SMU. It's like well and you know a few if any place is checked as hard as they've checked us, you know, they keep coming back and checking they're going to find something well part of the reason they were you know, they kept coming back is because they had a bad history. I think it is pretty widespread II in defense of athletic directors and coaches. I'll say this part of the problem is the leadership also has to come from the top of the University meaning the president the president of the University. There are a number of contradictions. I mean on the one hand you're being told as athletic director and coaches. We got to make money. We got a win we want to win because to win we can make more money and everybody wants to win and so forth and that's good for the University. But we also want to do it the right way and sometimes it's very difficult to put all those things together and accomplish them all and There are six the president of a university can set off some some signals that are probably hard for his employees employees like the athletic director to to decipher because sometimes you can't have it all you can't have winning or you can't have let's say a national championship level program and clean up some of the other things that you want to clean up then Barrera the Star Tribune is with us here on sport folio and ksjn 1330. I'm J.G. Preston 2276 thousand is our phone number. If you'd like to get in on this conversation two two seven six thousand and I'll take it even one step farther in that day. I don't I think that really the citizenry. I think people have to have a clear idea what they expect from this University athletic business because let's face it. I mean the United States is we're an aberration. I mean, we're asking our academic institutions to be in the mass entertainment business and at they're just not compatible. It's you know, it goes back 70 80 years. I mean its historic in this country. It doesn't happen in other countries and We I think I think most people they can't decide what the priority is. They want their teams to be competitive and the Big Ten and they boo and hiss and right sarcastic things if they're not they also want these teams be filled with players who are a capable of doing college-level work and graduated from college in a reasonable length of time and they want them to be model citizens and everything else and you know, frankly the whole business of behavior. That's certainly not a race issue. I think a lot of those just kind of tied up in the athletic temperament. Absolutely. There is some as Faizon. I mean not to paint with too broad a brush here because there are plenty of great guys in sports and also some pretty weird guys and let's face it you're involved in an activity like football you have to you have to come from a different point of view than a lot of us do which is not to criticize it's just different and a lot of people can't handle that can't accept that. Well, we the the, you know, there's a guy who I have taken shots at from time to time who on this particular subject I think has a great deal of integrity and that's that's Bobby Knight. You know, it's very interesting. And again, I feel a lot of contradictions about night. I don't like a lot of his behavior and so forth but on certain issues like academic Integrity on trying to do what he can to be sure cheating is not going on in this program. I think he does incredible amount absolutely and another good example of the contradictions that come up night has been big on well, look at college basketball their college basketball games being played now at 9:30 or 10:00 o'clock Central Time at night why one reason television is dictating it and why do college has allowed television to dictate it because they pay well and they need the money that's one of the contradictions. So what you're doing is you're screwing up in many cases the scheduling of a lot of these kids trying to go to class for the sake of getting the money that you can get from from starting a game at 9:30 or 10 o'clock, which you have to have. I mean, it's a ten million dollar a year business ice and and at least the one thing that I think people can feel good about is they see problems with the athletic program is this isn't necessarily this isn't our tax money at work. It's money that's been raised from ticket sales television and radio revenues. And that's that's the preeminent Factory maybe the people who are buying the tickets feel a little bit of fleece but become such a terrible cycle and I think really I think Paul Gill new as well as anybody all the inherent contradictions involved in running a major college athletic program. I think he really genuinely felt confusion and somewhat disturbed about it because how do you reconcile all these things? I mean, you have to go out and win to raise the money you need to stay in business. But on the other hand, are you going to be able especially competing at this level to go out and win with the people who are also going to be Rhodes scholars in the Eagle Scouts? Absolutely. No, I mean the whole business is really I enjoy the atmosphere of Big Ten Sports. I enjoy the excitement. I enjoy the enthusiasm. I enjoy the level of competition, but the whole thing is starting to really turn me off. It's just starting to make me just almost sick to my stomach. That's a little bit dramatic. But it well it's getting the thing is it and it's getting a lot of ways. It's getting bigger and bigger and again that has to do with money because we're talking about incredible amounts of money that good that winning programs can generate to an athletic department into a university and Guess what's funny is that most of them? Don't right? I mean very few were actually kicking back any substantial amounts of money. Most of them have 10 million dollar budgets in are still barely breaking even if that precisely yeah. It's it's a it's a very strange business will be curious to hear what you folks. Think about that and some other things will get to over the course of the hour to two seven six thousand is our phone number on sport folio Star Tribune columnist. Dan. Barreiro is my guests have a caller Minneapolis. Hi Michael. Thanks for calling Michael Michaels at you. Oh Mitch. Yeah. (00:14:17) All (00:14:34) right Mitch soon as I figure that out. I printed transcript and run that back to you because it's fun to decipher 2276 thousand is our phone number here on sport fully. We're off to a flying start here on ksjn 13. 34th he's writing down another name. So before asking making another outrageous comment to Dan I'll just wait for this to go up in the board. Hey, it's going to rain today. I think and that great we had some rain out in Woodbury last night. It was terrific might have some more today. Okay, we're going to Plymouth. Next Joel. Is that you are you coherent? Yeah good and you can then you can stay on the (00:15:04) program. All right, I think Gil is a living example of the Peter Principle the guy could raise funds but he couldn't administrate and I think that's pretty obvious. (00:15:18) Hi. I like Paul personally and God knows I couldn't do that job, but I think you're right. I think Paul was was the perfect. Mr. Outside for the athletic department in his personal charm his popularity as ability to make vast amounts of money for that University with his persuasive abilities, but on the on the same hand, somebody also has to be working the inside walk in the hall right walking the floor and and you have the real feel of what's going on. And Paul just was not in a position to be able to do that. Right? I'm not that that's a defense Dan. I have talked about that already. But clearly that's the it would be it would be difficult to expect to find one person who could combine the two elements need and that this doesn't go for the athletic department goes for any any business any line of (00:15:59) work the other two things that are liked one from that question-and-answer piece that was in the star this past week. He said he didn't have any trouble with Wilderness until we ask them to do paperwork and I think that was quite revealing and the other thing is the NCAA Bears a lot of responsibility for this to in there with their head in the sand attitude of amateur Athletics their rules are made to be are made to be broken. It's not the University of Minnesota and in or SMU, it's every every one every one of (00:16:36) them and I think I think there are a lot of small rules that are made to be broken by the NCAA. I don't I (00:16:41) think not being able to give the kid a coat when he gets here. It's 10 below zero he rides off the airplane. Florida sure and you can't give him a coat you can't give them a ride downtown sure and that's absurd but I still feel that these players basketball and baseball specifically should be paid. They're given their given tuition and books and food, but, you know, you want to go out sometime you got to live you got to buy clothes and and if you're hitting the books and going to practice all the time, you can't work. (00:17:11) I know there are plenty of people say gee whiz tuition room and board ought to be enough for anybody and that that's plenty of payment. But I'm so sick of all the contradictions that what I would really like to see the system as it exists. Now, there's too many people who want to see the system continue to many people like college football. Let's face it. It's all right, right and there's nothing wrong with that. I was just as soon see the thing spun off into a like a subsidiary of a business and you go out and that's one thing. I definitely like to see you see the NFL and the NBA own up to their responsibilities and directly financially (00:17:43) 700402 that that when these kids are Their salaries be kicked back to the university to help pay for that scholarship or end to help pay for more scholarships or to keep the the Department's going or to help pay for our a journalism school or for building classrooms. (00:18:00) There are a couple problems here to that you that you hit on one is there are so many little regulations. There are so many little rules that the NCAA sometimes does miss the forest for the trees, you know a good example is when the Indiana University kid Steve Alford, he's not there anymore is in the NBA now but here he posed. Yeah, very barely. He posed for a calendar that was for charity for it was some a sorority arrangement, I believe. Yeah and by the letter of the law, he should he should not have done it and he was suspended for one game and it was ludicrous. The thing was being done for charity. It was not well handled but the point is there are so many little rules that the the NCAA worries about sometimes if they miss the forest for the (00:18:45) trees. I don't like the NCAA. I think it's got a head in the sand attitude and and archaic rules and I don't understand why colleges don't form their own associations and and and make the the pros pay them to develop the kids (00:19:00) form. Of course, technically. That's what the NCAA is. I mean the NCAA exists at the behest of its member institutions. Remember, I remember institutions are (00:19:07) shown on their their their their testicles with with stupidity. (00:19:18) Well by I mean by the same token you look in their defense there is another big problem here. I mean, they don't have the kind of manpower to do the kind of job that they really need to do. There's so much more going on. Obviously, they can't touch and I don't think it's quite fair to say that everything that they look for that there are edges looking to bust people. I mean, they're looking to try to enforce some rules which which until they're changed. I mean makes in some cases least make some sense sure. They don't have the Manpower. Our to do that in the truth is they will never have the manpower to do it, (00:19:51) but I don't think they need the Manpower or because their rules are stripped of their rules across the board. I don't understand why the college's don't form their own (00:19:58) associations. Well college is currently see colleges have too much at stake to want to change the rules. If you got into a (00:20:04) situation. That's the only (00:20:07) thing now the NCAA does even do that anymore. Those are all negotiated separately by conference or the CFA which is completely different from the NCC that that's what the Supreme Court decision was to get that. Yeah, they can they can sell the tournament because they sponsored the tournament and that's the source of a great deal of I mean 75% of the NCAA budget comes directly from the (00:20:24) basketball about to kick back to the to the college's, isn't (00:20:26) it? Sure. Oh, (00:20:27) yeah. Yeah. Well, that's so they're making money from the NCAA. That's why they won't that's why they belong to it sure, honey, you can make of (00:20:34) and let's face it. If we were to have an open market type of College athletics structure the kind of thing that I am morally comfortable with where it's your, you know, your you have eligibility requirements as far as age and length of You can play in this developmental league, but you're paying them not a lot of money, maybe some kids you would and and but the problem is here is it not very many institutions could compete financially at that level. Yeah, you'd have a you'd (00:20:58) have to the university that graduates to all the schools. (00:21:04) Oh, no, I know what you're saying. But I think I'm talking about something different here in that that I would just I would like to see us get out of the day of the student athlete because I just I think it's there too many inherent contradictions. I think people want college sports. That's great. And I think people don't really care if they're if the athletes representing their institution are great students or Scholars or graduate or anything else as long as they don't expect them to if I'd like to see a system which sure you schedule practices late in the afternoon, so kids can go to class if they want to and you don't require it. I think the universities universities do themselves a disservice by trying to succeed in these too often disparately separate Ventures big-time academics and big-time Athletics. That's what I that's what I would make it you (00:21:48) betcha, but then you're really thinking away from campuses and universities. I mean, it's a whole subsidiaries. Gary wouldn't have anything to do with school. I mean it has very little to do with schools. Now. (00:21:59) That's my point exactly is it has very little to do with schools now except for rooting interest because you know, (00:22:04) it's cracked my point to that's why I don't care if they Tear Down Memorial Stadium, that's why I don't care if they take it away from Wilmer Williams Arena because it has nothing to do with the students have nothing to do with with the with the Athletics or the Athletics have nothing to do with the (00:22:17) student at these big-time universities. I (00:22:19) think that's right, right like Michigan football 5,000 students and a hundred fifteen thousand people (00:22:27) when and students at Michigan. I don't think they care of a few. No, they never see the athletes on the field. They don't know him personally. I (00:22:34) think you never receive (00:22:34) those classes. Hey what I got some callers waiting I'm gonna have to run now, but thanks for the call two two seven six thousand of their phone numbers portfolio Jeff. I wonder if people hang up on the air like that treat me back hurts my ears Jeff walk it as a great job to I'm not really here to criticize damn barreiro. The Star Tribune is my guest. We're not going to solve all the ills facing College athletics today, but at least Expose some of the maybe got a caller on the line for Minneapolis. Hi Joan. Thanks for (00:22:59) waiting. Yeah, I did right away. But I guess I hope what I have to say will be of some value to you good. I'm listening Irish one of the best salesperson for the Gophers sometime back telemarketing for the team. I heard a cross-section of opinions which concurred with the opinion of raised about the idea that the team that football has become a very big business and that's really turns a lot of the minnesotans. (00:23:26) Are we selling football season tickets Joe? Okay, (00:23:34) I concur with this because my my husband is an educator and he has often said that there's a strong anti educational turn in the United States and one of it has to do with this whole concept of a jock Society. We worship the body we worship Sports. We don't worship anything in the way of Education of the brain. Where are the intellect or the or the or the beauty of the aesthetic or the art? Hmm, we've gotten away from those values that Europe does emulators respect us, you know put money into for instance. They put more they put about three times or five times more money into into art art students in their scholarships from the United States are so yet. We're the richest country in the world and our values are all turned around and upside down there. They're really very disoriented and it's because we are motivated by money. It's a form of prostitution. I hate to say it but it is no it's you know, (00:24:32) we sometimes talk about how screwed up a lot of the athletes are that we have to deal with and how arrogant they are and how unwilling they are seemingly at times to sort of take care of the kinds of responsibilities that the rest of us do all the time. But when you think about it if from the age of 6 or whenever you start throwing a ball around and you're good at it, you're basically work. Ripped through High School through college and so forth and newspapers are partially responsible for this to an electronic media. Then it's really not that surprising that the (00:25:10) pornography is an eight billion dollar business. Right and sports has become in the same kind of category, but is it good for us? Is it building Role Models? I mean when you hear about these guys going and raping women and in Wisconsin and doing all the stuff that they do and I thank God that they prosecuted them because this has happened in other places and they haven't (00:25:30) I'll take a sports builds a lot more it instills a lot more of value for people who are involved in them than for people like us who sit around and watch I mean when you get right down to it, (00:25:44) Out there kicking a ball around and expect people to quote unquote worship them because they want a game (00:25:49) by the same token. A lot of them will tell you that they don't they don't ask to be they don't really ask to be worshipped. There's one danger here in part of it again is because they've been protected in years past and people don't report haven't reported the whole story and haven't shown them. It is being human beings rather than Heroes. These are still human beings were talking about and some of them are going to do stupid things. Just like the rest of us do some of them are going to do real stupid things part of the problem is they have been worshipped and reported upon as being and and the the bad things they do haven't been reported at all. So people are left with with people tend to be shocked when they hear the bad things happen. Well, the truth is there there are bad apples in in sports just as there isn't anything else perhaps more so but but the truth is that's their you know, their human and I think sometimes we do expect them to somehow, you know be different or be above (00:26:44) Well, but (00:26:45) yeah, that's a resentment that you hear a lot of but the truth is the salary does not change them. In fact, a lot of cases the salary opens them up to a lot of Temptation and a lot of opportunities. I'm not defending everything they do by any means. I'm just saying that it should we should not be shocked just because a guy makes seven hundred grand a year that he wasn't trying drugs or he's you know, it'll become model citizens just because of the paycheck precisely the fact they may become more screwed up and I agree, you know, it's not exactly the kind of people I (00:27:12) think. University when they conduct themselves in a way that's belittling to the team and the university they have to answer to that really hard and I think they ought to be bad down hard and just let go. Yeah, I don't think that they should they should even try to defend them on those grounds, but the bottom line is I think that that's Sports have to put in their proper context and the proper perspective and I think they ought not be like this the shining star in our life. We have to be able to put Sports in its proper perspective. It's good absolutely but it's not where it should be put up a goal of our life and our life or something that we really, you know, it's the bureau and end all of life is sports and sitting there by 2:00 to 4:00 hour after hour watching it. It's really gotten out of (00:28:03) hand. I make my living from it. So I shouldn't really say it but I'm not nearly the sports fan. I was 5 years ago 10 years ago, and I really think if I weren't involved in sports. Professionally that I don't think I'd care very much (00:28:17) of our life to be focusing on just one thing like that all the time and I think it also destroys the life, you know, the quality of life and a family between husband and wife and interaction with children when they sit there for four hours in a row watching nothing but 11 series of games after and I'm not putting it down at all because I sold to them and I believe in it. (00:28:36) I I take it you're out of the ticket sales business now (00:28:38) Joan, but I really feel that it has to be put in its proper perspective and it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of life without (00:28:53) actually called you appreciate it 28 minutes before one o'clock here on sport folio on ksjn 1330 Minneapolis st. Paul Minneapolis Star Tribune sports columnist. Ann barreiros. My guests time J.G. Preston 2276 thousand is our phone number and we'll be back to talk to some more you right after this. Hello. This is Mark heisted encouraging you to keep listening to ksjn throughout the day. A day coming up at 1 o'clock this afternoon on the week in review will report on the continuing Fallout from the shooting down last weekend of Iranian Flight 655 also reports today on the resignation of Attorney General Edwin Meese, and the firing of University of Minnesota men's athletic director Paul Gill also this afternoon and extended report from the Punjab region of India by one estimation. It's the bloodiest place on Earth those stories and more on the week in review coming up at 1 o'clock this afternoon here on ksjn 1333 than I thought that was Pat tingle house room. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I know it's a you know, illegal and unfair and all that other stuff. But okay two two seven six thousand is our phone number here on sport folio. We have a caller in Chaska. Hi Tom. Hi. (00:29:57) What's on your mind? My only comment is it shouldn't have taken the university 17 years you realize that Paul Gill was not a good administrator. (00:30:07) I think there's evidence to prove you're right about that. (00:30:10) And if that was the major problem and it probably is They should have tried to rectify and long time ago and there were ways to do it to utilize him as an outside man. Hmm and really bring in strong Administration on the inside and oversee (00:30:25) it and I'm told frankly that that almost happened at one point and and it fell through for a variety of (00:30:31) reasons and but that doesn't also then remove any responsibility from sour to take into consideration that there were 17 years and that you just don't come in and bang fire the man and not give some consideration to the 17 years that he put in and try to do it in a way that left a little dignity (00:30:57) for people. There are very few people. I think even people who wanted Paul out who did not think it was handled awkwardly and and and badly and and for I think even people who wanted him out of there were frankly empathetic towards Paul about what happened all I can put together and this isn't I don't know if this will turn out Likely to be a defensive sour or not, but I'm not sure that if you wanted to get rid of Paul Gill gracefully that you would have gotten rid of him because I think his supporters are too numerous and to vociferous to have let him go on without a just a bloody bloody lengthy battle and maybe that's what should have been done. And I don't know if that would have been the right way to do it or not. I too was I mean I felt genuinely bad for Paul that had happened the way it did but if you came to the decision that he was not the guy for the job and that you had to make a change. I'm not sure you could have made a change any other way one other point one point that you made time that I think is a very good one is in this day and age with the kind of money we're talking about in the kind of budgets were talking about it is no longer enough to put a local legend or famous athlete all alumnus that sort of thing in a position. You need someone you really need a professional you need a technician almost to do at least on the inside to do the kind of job. That's necessary. It's gotten too big. It's gotten too. Big to just sort of say okay. Let's go with the guy who's kind of local favorite who has lived here all his life and and was a great athlete here and so forth. It's it's too big a job (00:32:26) now. Well most companies and Country all over the world are run that way, you know, they recognize people's abilities utilize them and and back them up with the type of experience and capabilities. And I think it's just a good case that mismanagement at the University at all, but killed by back in the Dutcher days, you know after that episode and if there ever was a time when somebody should have sat down and said, hey this place isn't being run (00:33:03) right? Sure. Absolutely, right? Somebody has to take some responsibility. You can't keep running from it, (00:33:09) and I guess I just don't want to excuse our from saying well he had you know, It got dealt a bad hand (00:33:16) because I mean because clearly I think you've reached that conclusion yourself was a change had to be made and I don't think we couldn't hold sour at fault for making it to just would have been nice if it didn't have to be quite so (00:33:24) abrupt the academic side the other guy they leave out very diplomatically nicely. Mmm. Thought ya (00:33:33) tell you what time I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to run because the phone lines are full. I told Barrera this had happened will go go for half an hour talking to ourselves and all of a sudden people come out of the Woodworks in the wonder why they get left hanging at one o'clock, but that's okay. We'll get to as many of you as we can to to 76 thousand our phone number on sport folio. Dorothy's going to put the magic name up here with the tape dispensers having a little bit of problem. Damn. Barreiro. The Star Tribune is our guest here this afternoon going to St. Paul this person wishes to remain anonymous. Is that right? Yes T Paul. How are you saying Paul? (00:34:01) Okay. I'm okay. Glad to hear it. Okay. Well what I'm thinking about the athlete is the day that is what set to me. It's art seem like a throwback to the days of the when they say are those. Oh Roman Olympics and things like that hmm brought the people out and when they are young man had get to be successful now in the money or what not. He's almost like a sacrificial lamb or either mortar. (00:34:33) I'm not gonna quite sure I make the connection there. (00:34:36) Well, it's VIP have to give up everything for this desire of his in the morning and he got to live (00:34:44) it. I don't know about martyrdom, but I think you're right. I think the commitment involved in success and it's in just as Athletics and this involves playing the violin or being a stage actor or getting a business degree or (00:34:55) whatever. We're talking about that that it is being brought into the days of the Gladiators where they would have to fight and wrestle bears and for the amusement and distance, you know, all those (00:35:11) things that's coming up. They're going to start bringing it back. Listen, I hear you on that. When I agree there there's a lot of things about these Sports and make you very intriguing look at analyte. (00:35:19) It's the only can't use it because he's a regimented where to eat where to sleep who to talk to when to get up he can have the homes and thing but everybody else's in Jordan but him but doctor to see Wendy, you know all those things so he's bright. Your flame and he really gives up a lot. Well (00:35:39) there you reach a point where you get paid pretty well for your enslavement of these guys had their (00:35:43) eyes on this one in that other one says to he's not involved anymore. Yeah, that's true. Alright. Well, thank you. You're (00:35:52) welcome. Of course that happens to a lot of us to so it's I would say this is I do feel some end. There's so many indefensible things that you really can't I mean, I'll just say this and realize that you can't defend this all the way but I feel some empathy for college athletes and I especially feel empathy at the University of Minnesota for black athletes. I mean, I would be very very uncomfortable with myself. I mean you look at it. You're looking at the student body at 50,000 that's not terribly diverse certainly by University standards. I can see where be a very lonely place to go to school and that's their you know, I mean we could talk about this for three days let alone half an hour and talk about problems on both sides of the equation there, but it's a very uncomfortable situation. I would think well, you know, you've hit on something to I mean, I'm Sure, it's hard for many of them not to feel exploited because if you let's not just limited to here. I mean, there's so many places where you players at Major institutions with major football and basketball programs. The players are used to help the team win and you look at the graduation rates and they're in some cases pitiful. I mean 10% 11% of some of the athletes and some of that responsibility is with the athlete, but some of it is with the with the the school to be concerned about that sorta thing and say, hey, we can't you know, this can't go on. What's the point of this? This is a charade sure and and they don't really but the truth is I'm in a lot of cases. The the college is involved and the coaches involved are more concerned with the bottom line and they don't they don't really care that much about what happens to the individual and it's a real chicken and egg thing. I mean at what point is it the sure maybe somebody within the athletic framework should be pushing the athletes to really stretch themselves educationally make sure that they're getting a good broad educational basic go on. There but on the other hand so many times you're bringing in people who aren't prepared to deal with it anyway, and there's so many different levels. That's one thing that I think you'll took some heat for but I've talked to the guy about it and I know how he feels he knows that a lot of times if you're going to if because you have to raise ten million bucks, mostly based on the performance of your team's to be able to Justify Your Existence that you've got to get people who are not academically or socially prepared to go to college at all and yet you can still make a positive difference in their lives. It's that's well short of exploitation. I mean just, you know the exposure to a campus environment on the one hand. You don't want to get him in there and shoulder them. So it's just becomes a sports only type of thing and they're not exposed to some bigger things. Maybe they won't graduate. Maybe they won't do well in class. Maybe it'll make a difference. Maybe it won't you can't you know, it's hard to tell it's such a sort of business. I mean, I'm not I'm I wouldn't I graduation rate necessarily they think is hell I didn't graduate from college either, you know well, but the point is they're there if if you're going to if you're going to say that this is part of the University then there's got to be some effort made to holding up that end and the truth is there are a number of coaches who have Pitiful graduation rates you really don't care. I mean who are saying? Okay, I'm here. Basically, it just means we're using you you can help us we can help you go on to the next level, but the the school end of it is a charade and either open either it openly admitted to charade or try to do something about it as my point, you know, one of the real issues in all of this that you don't hear talking about much is it college football and basketball are the only training grounds for the NBA and the NFL the only point of entry for professional sports career is through college sports. Now, are you going to disenfranchise a whole group of people who aren't ready for a college environment academically and socially and and and shut them out of being able to make a living playing their sport now whether you know, whether you agree that it's important to be able to make a living that way or not. The truth is the living is available. You can make millions of dollars from doing it and that's why I think college sports has got to become a separate entity because you got to be able to maintain the point of entry let the pro subsidize the thing let the university sponsored the things let him play for the glory of the University heck with some kids you they wouldn't Class any less if they never win at all you can still maintain that system and I'll grant you that were probably take it down to about 30 institutions sponsoring what we call major college athletics. And I don't think most people would mind. I really don't I mean I feel pretty lucky. I went to a high school in Long Island that Sports was not really emphasized there because you know people at other things to worry about people who are sports fans, they got into the mat. So the Yankees and the Giants of the Jets are the Knicks and they had something else to worry about they don't worry about high school sports. We played we played in a vacuum really, I mean Saturday afternoons small crowds not a lot of media coverage and that was fine. We enjoyed it. I went to a small College where we played, you know, there was no different very little difference between the athletes and everybody else as far as what kind of people they were what kind of students they were, but they played for fun and I enjoyed it and it was great. You're not going to be asking people to play for fun at the University of Minnesota people's expectations are too high fans expectations are too high. That's fine. Don't change. It. Just don't make these same people also expect to have these amazing. I mean Jack Milburn for some reason always a guy I think about his boy in this what college athlete Athletics would be all about. He was a quarterback at Oklahoma great athlete great student great guy all this stuff, you know the Bill Bradley types great there one in a million. There aren't that many of them and you're not going to you're not going to build a program out of that not very often though. I'm babbling. Anyway, let's go back to the phones to to 76 thousand neurons portfolio. It's about a quarter to 1 we have damn Barrera with us from the Star Tribune going to Minneapolis. Hi Peter. Thanks for calling. (00:41:00) Yeah. I just would like to make a point that you guys it's a feeling I get is that you're saying that academics and Athletics don't really mix together very well, and I don't personally believe that that is always the case. (00:41:14) Oh, no, and I don't either believe me. I really don't either because I've known to many people who are good athletes who are also capable of doing superhuman Feats in the classroom and in other places, but I think once you start trying to run a ten million dollar business on people who are excellent on both sides of the equation, I think you're asking for trouble. I mean, I wish I wish I wish I were wrong and you were right but I'm not convinced. I am not convinced that again getting back especially to the professional point of entry problem. I just don't think that you're doing Justice to anybody by asking for excellence on both sides of the equation. Maybe I'm a wimp. Well, I don't think yeah, I don't think you may be right in terms of what the expectations are. However ice under the present system. I still think that there are a lot of the problem is that not nearly enough is done to bring out what is there and I think it's it goes back to discipline it goes back to making demands and so forth a couple people have mentioned what about and I don't think this is a bad idea under the current system if you if the coach is if you if if you're the number of your scholarships was based on whether the kid in your program graduated if you did not get that scholarship back after he left if he didn't graduate you're going to I'm telling you you're going to have coaches they're going to find themselves spending a lot more time worrying about that sort of Thing to make it a priority to make it a priority and that's and that's part of the problem. It's not made a priority in some cases. I think you're right. You're talking about students that the expectations are somewhat unrealistic maybe but too many people don't make it a priority and the only way unfortunately to do it is to is to is to toughen up the rules and to make it hurt them. If they don't follow up on it. That's the whole point of this and that is where they would feel it if they can't fill the the opening with another player. They're going to feel that and that's the sort of that's the sort of legislation that's pretty drastic and I don't know if people have the guts to do it, but that's the only sort of thing that's going to make a difference I think but I really think that if you're going to do that you've there's got to be some other point of entry for professional sports, whether the professional teams go out and subsidize their own minor leagues for people who aren't capable of going to college because I think if you do that you open yours and I agree. It's nice to have some incentive built in there so that the coaches and administrators make learning a priority outside the classroom. But I really feel like if that became the rule that you'd find so many cases of bogus courses bogus grades bogus this and bogus that would make stuff that goes on now as far as transcript alteration and stuff like that going and it would just pale by comparison. There'd always be a way to get around the rules. Okay? Well, there's always gonna be another there's always going to be a way there's and I'm personally because this again as for my self conscious about my own lack of a diploma, I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of necessarily graduation because it really varies from Kid to Kid. Well, okay and maybe maybe graduation is not is not the answer some sort of right? Yeah, grab me towards towards fulfilling some activities besides, you know shooting the ball to and I do agree with that especially philosophically if you're going to try to unite academics and Athletics and you're going to try to ask these academic institutions to get involved in the athletic business. You've got to you've got to make that time I'll agree with that philosophically. I died, you know, I don't think it's going to happen from within institutions I think is going to happen from from people who watch what's going on in screen. I mean clearly people are more distressed about the University of Go to now than they ever were when the football team was 1 and 10 and I think that shows that most people had most people know what their priority is, but that priority waivers when the football team is to be one and that's right. That's right. I mean, I think the University of Minnesota could have very easily gone and unilaterally decided that the that freshman would not compete in Varsity Sports the it's within their power right now. Ken Keller didn't do it and I think he was right in not doing at least I understood what he was telling me in that he felt that as a leader. He could not just hand that down on a stone tablet to the people. They did wind up causing more problems and it's all because of the backlash that his job instead was to try to persuade and the try to get people to see things from his way in and try to go at it from a from a wider perspective and just the University of Minnesota going off on its horse with a lance. I think I think he was right, but if that's if we're waiting for the for the broader consensus it in going to happen. I mean, you're not know you'll never see you'll never see the Big Ten go to not having freshman eligible and I think you'll have to see a major major major skin. I like we haven't even conceived. To see the NCAA go back to freshman not being able to well, I mean, let's go back to something as simple as a TV schedule. I mean the in the Big Ten, I mean they vote on whether they're going to have games on specific nights and so forth and this was nights whole argument. I mean he voted against it but something as simple as that and again money was what what called. I mean that's where how people made the decision. So if something as something that's simple the universities aren't going to have the backbone to sort of stand up and say hey no, we can't go any further than here. Then the kinds of issues you're talking about or even more seriously going to be more difficult to get any kind of consensus and you know what that all goes back to I'm not uncomfortable with bending things around for TV money as long as you're telling your athletic department that that it has to raise its own money. I mean, if you're going to try to make the argument that Athletics is an important educational component to an important part of the University's Mission. I'm not saying you necessarily can but if you're going to try to do that, you've got to subsidize it you've got to find it from the legislature. You've got to fund it for the University's Central budget and I'm not sure how many of us are comfortable with that right now and I think if we're going to ask them to stand on their own, Then they have to have the leeway to to do weird things for money because they course I'm uncomfortable the whole the amount of money it takes to do this in the first place. Do you need nine assistant football coach has do you need 90 players on football scholarship? I agree. I sense another question. I agree II don't want people taste ball same thing. I mean how many now you see so many teams with 346, you know assistant coach is a couple of volunteer assistance and I think yeah, it's that whole part of it is is out of control coaches or big on protecting that constituency and saying yeah, we have to have it and we have to have this many players. I did though you don't you you can get you can you can deal with what you have to deal with if your force is just so right heck we lived in one platoon football for all those years. I didn't kill anybody you can and I'm not saying oh that's that but you can adjust course then if you reduce the number of scholarships and my goodness end of the table competition for the the good ones becomes even more intense, I guess what a mess. It's we're not going to saw what do we do this for a living? And I don't know. That's right. Let's go back to the phones to to 76 thousands portfolio. We're going to be Dinah Jim. We very very very rarely get any calls. - I'm privileged and pleasure to have you with it today. (00:47:35) Yeah. Hey, I want to ask about this kid fool would worry that works there. He signs or he was forced to sign with the Washington (00:47:44) Redskins. Yeah chip low Miller the (00:47:46) kicker. Did he graduate from University? I don't know what I'd say to that. I don't (00:47:51) think you did but ship was not far off. I know chip because I live about three blocks from where his parents used to live in Woodbury. He's a bright kid who's done reasonable academic work, but I'm not sure he graduated in June. (00:48:01) Well, he really get with their Washington Redskins. (00:48:05) I think I read that he already signed and need a niigata Charisse. Yeah, Jeff Walker my football expert across the glasses. He did sign and he got a nice load of dough for it to when the packet like a quarter of a million bucks or something like that for two or three years. They're serious about him. I mean, they're serious about they want him to be their kicker. I mean he obviously has to make it but they they like him. Yeah. I see. Thanks for calling Jim. I appreciate it phones are going crazy. We're going to Minneapolis next here on sport folio less. Is that you Hey Les, go ahead Les. What you do Jeff you mess less up. Okay. Push some more buttons. Okay. I love it modern 2276 thousand our phone number and portfolio. Don't bother calling though. You'll never get through. Okay, we're ready. Go ahead - and I don't know where you're calling from. Now that works I hear somebody now. Hello. Hi. Who's this (00:48:57) is Gary from South Minneapolis high gear. Thanks for call. I'd like to change the subject a little bit here. Okay and talk about the in barreiro little (00:49:04) bit and that's a nice topic (00:49:05) to one of the things I'd like to talk about is a perception that I had seemed like the first year reading Dan's articles. They tended to be more on the negative side kind of getting down on things and it seemed like maybe after the All-Star the World Series and that this year tends to be more of reporting things as they are human interest type things. Is that a false perception or (00:49:29) it's it's an interesting perception. It's certainly not a conscious there was no concept conscious decision to be any different. It was obviously the twins did very well. So chances were that that time I was going to be writing nice things about the the twins did you think I was too net was I to negative for you the first year? (00:49:47) Well, yeah, I guess maybe with sort of anti Sid but one of the things was it seemed like In the stretch in August and September, I just seem to be a little bit of Reagan about the fans and the brightest and stuff like that. Right? Maybe that was a small portion of it, but it seemed like things have changed in just comment on those sorts of things. Well, (00:50:09) I'll just say again. There's nothing conscious. I'm not writing any differently and and my feeling about writing is when I feel like praising someone or something I will and when I feel like getting down in something or somebody I will and that's sort of my job that I shouldn't be sort of conscious of trying to do either one. I did. Sorry about that. I did take I recall that the period you're talking about. I believe it was early September may have been late August where I did get down on the fans and I still stand by it at the time. I didn't think the crowds were very big and I didn't think they were very vociferous and at that obviously change down the stretch, but there was a period of time where I thought it was very puzzling the way the the fans were reacting. Yeah. I've had a fair number of people tell me. I think of you as a real negative guy real Ripper and juicy. I mean, you're such a mild-mannered decent guy when you're not riding that you have got a party reckons. You haven't seen me when I was out on the road. I'm a road warrior out. There be one of the guys with the warp drive that things are in the Blaster but people drive to their to safe driving around in this area. That's what I found. I grew up in Chicago and I'm used to kind of Kamikaze driving, you know, and the people around here too civilized. Do you you know, the columnist athlete relationship always intrigues people. Do you do you find that you get direct feedback from people you write about or or at least other athletes do they do they give you the cold shoulder to they shun you if they think you're being too hard or too negative or anything like that. They make they generally will make their opinions known not all in all cases. But yeah, they're they're pretty they're pretty direct with just fine. That's part of the part of the job. They've gone to extremes a couple times when the Vikings when the Vikings won their second playoff game. I believe to get in the NFC title game a bunch of the offensive lineman got around me and started rapping athletic tape around my leg. And started you would said the cancer to be in the player cisely. And so that's probably a little extreme but ya know they generally make their feelings their feelings known and that's that comes with the territory. I mean, they're not going always you're obviously not always going to praise them and they're not always going to like what you have to say and that's sort of a comes with a job but most places. Yeah, and this is no exception. The athletes will let you know in a lot of cases what they're thinking is that often create lasting scars in the relationship or is it just they say their piece and it's over just it depends on the person. Okay, the truth is some people need just need to get it out of the system and you can argue with them and then they'll talk to you the next time there's somewhere it lasts, you know last a little bit longer and there's they're not as willing to to their spend as much time being interviewed by got a caller on the line from somewhere and it's beautiful Twin Cities area. That's a Dora. (00:52:47) All right. Hi Dora. Please do rise to sports as well. Everything else and that is we have had an architect's trust fund set aside that 30 years ago would have put every student through you know, and they could have been applied for sports and everything else but our political and corporate structure has just ran their thing through and we have had three ex-governors earnings are Anderson has been done during their terms and they said on both sides of the fence. I mean politically and I really think that the public should really dig into this because this money at the university is political. Mmm. Absolutely and I think when you get through with all this you're going to hang that we got a nasty nasty nasty set up here and our children have suffered and they're still not getting any education (00:53:45) I have been in there's more to be unveiled about the University of Maine has yet met the eye. Yeah. Those are what ends it with this follows the pattern what tends to happen is the more that comes out the more Come tumbling out and people get maybe a little braver about, you know, get divulging things which isn't to say everything that's been said or will be said is true that's yet to be proven but people get braver the more that stuff that comes out and I don't think we've seen the bottom yet. No, you know, there's been so many contradictions already. Somebody's lying already. That's why people are lying about 11 and who is it? That's hard to say. Okay, we're going to Minneapolis last now. We only have two minutes less. You can have to be shorter than usual less. Yeah. Yeah your unless we haven't got much time though. All (00:54:24) right, I want to say this. I do think that whatever you think of Paul Gill the way this guy sarahandwill at was very sleazy calls him in at 11:30. He's got a press conference in an hour or two later. Yeah, (00:54:37) we know that less. Okay, that's (00:54:38) probably like this. You've got to be realistic. I was a kind of kid that got bloody noses when I was going to high school for defending minorities, but I think that if you've got a black or white or red or yellow what who has an IQ of 95 or a hundred or has A serious problems in his life for whatever reasons maybe because of you know detriments in his family life. You can't bring him to a large University and expect him to make it to have the articulation to have the language skills and whatnot. And I think that in that sense, they are exploited. I doubt that the the jobs situation is quite what they said. I believe these people did try to get them jobs and probably some of them did not pick it up and run with it. But I just feel that the whole situation is sleazy. I think that the basketball coaches both Dutcher and the latest guy Haskins have brought in people that they probably knew were marginal to say the least and they're so urgently trying to build a winning program with some handicaps that they're willing to bring in people. They know are going to have problems and (00:55:46) that's I'm sorry. Nothing personal less. We just ran out of time. I'm sorry. Nothing personal honest. Okay. Hey Dan. Thanks for coming over. I we Again, not solving the world's problems. Maybe we feel a little therefore talking about. I'm not really enjoyed it damn Barrera from the Star Tribune the sports columnist, and they'll be writing about some of these issues tomorrow. I'm told so stay tuned. Thanks to Dorothy Hanford for answering the telephones. Thanks to Jeff Walker for doing the technical Wizardry. Thank you for listening. We'll try it again next Saturday, huh 12 noon here on sport folio on ksjn 1330. I'm J.G. Preston. Enjoy your weekend. I'll see you next week. You're listening to ksjn 1330 Minneapolis-Saint Paul world and national news is next from the Associated Press than Mark hoisted his back with the week in review occasional showers and thunderstorms likely today and high of 87. It's one o'clock.