(00:00:00) Hi, this is J.G. Preston. And this is portfolio how well prepared a professional athletes to go on with their lives after their playing careers are over in many cases not very well prepared at all. That's where the new center for academics and sports at the College of st. Thomas comes in centers program is designed to help athletes readjust to the academic world to continue their education if need be and to provide career counseling my guests are the director of the st. Thomas program Jim Radke and Mark Dean heart former football player and coach at st. Thomas is now the college's executive director of public affairs. You'll have a chance to call in your questions as well at two to seven six thousand. That's 2276 thousand here on sport folio. And before we get any farther along in the sports business here today, I might mention that is the development continued in the Northwest strike or not strike or whatever it is. Do we decide it's not a strike right now. None of us can keep track of it either and I suppose it's just as confusing for any of you plan to do any traveling this weekend. But anyway, yeah, Jeff mcandrew who sits there and answers the phone Jeff if you'll just kind of keep an eye on an ear open for any developments coming from the working part of The Newsroom and we'll try to make sure that you know right away what's going on just in case you're planning a little traveling on Northwest this eat this weekend. Well, it's time now for the the body of the program here on sport folio and it's kind of what didn't intend it to be this way. But it kind of winds up being an extension of some of the stuff we talked about last week with Alan Page. We talked quite a bit with Alan about why he got interested in a legal career and Going to law school while he was playing in the NFL with the Vikings and the thought process he put in about his future and Alan is clearly a great success story both as an athlete than and after his athletic career has been over as a lawyer today. We'll talk about talk about the issue more. Generally, I guess with the gym rat key and marketing heart from the college St. Thomas gentlemen, thanks very much for coming over. I appreciate your taking an hour to tell us what's going on at st. Thomas right now good beer good like make sure there's mics work that song now Jim you're the director of the of those st.thomas program here this I got to get the names right? Because they're different you have the center for academics and sports and I understand that this program was one of several around the country that's related to the center for the study of sport in society. That's based at Northeastern University in Boston. That's correct, J.G. The the program actually started at Northeastern University in Boston about three or four years ago. They recognized a need and developed this the center out there and started working. With the professional franchises out in Boston and as word got around other schools became interested and they decided to organize a Consortium to throughout the country where there are major franchise cities as far as professional sports are concerned. So this is now grown to I believe it's 25 colleges or universities throughout the country. Now, this is not a program that's intended for the as an undergraduate program for the mainstream student or for the student-athlete at st. Thomas. It's really meant for a very small group that has a defined need professional athletes who are looking whether they're close to retirement or not at making the transition to their life beyond Sports. Yeah, I guess the the recognition was that although they they are professional athletes and so forth. They to a large extent have been exploited in the past in terms of their ability to compete a complete their degree work. For example in the NFL about 67 percent of them do not have their degrees in in basketball better than 80% do not have their degrees in baseball. It's around 84 percent in hockey. It's as much as ninety two percent do not have their degrees and in hockey or even dealing with significant proportion of players who don't even have a high school diploma that's often times the case. They are somewhat short in terms of completing the requirements for their high school diploma. So in other words what St. Thomas tries to get involved with this program is getting these people back into an academic setting so that they can go on and finish their studies finish degree work take some courses in particular areas or whatever but just get him back involved and the academic flow right and and prepare them for Life After Sports, which is the key issue. I might as well mention why I drag Mark Dean heart in today because Mark doesn't really have anything to do with this program in and on itself, but he signed the letter then invited me to lunch. I didn't go to two weeks. And also Mark has a it's a little different perspective on the athlete turned something else in marks case. He was a football player at st. Thomas good enough to be in an NFL training camp with the Buffalo Bills stayed in the business for a while after that and and was a very successful head coach at st. Thomas for six or seven years, but during that same time you were also produced by pursuing an on athletic career getting your Advanced degree work done in Mass Communications. And now here you are as the college's director of public affairs. So you you kind of simultaneously pursued two radically different paths. That's right J.G. And I also appreciate you justifying my presence here. It's nice to be invited out is also good to see you again. The there's a difference I think in the way that that I happen to end up in the sort of position. I'm in and the type of athlete that Jim is talking about. I think we're dealing here with expectations many of the athletes. It Jim will be working with through our new college at st. Thomas or people who had anticipated that they're going to be involved in athletics as a career. It was great to be involved in athletics as a career. But certainly that's nothing I ever anticipated. So a master's degree in Mass Communications seem logical to me an undergraduate degree in philosophy was was it seemed logical to me? Because it was something I was interested in and now a PhD in higher education Administration seems seems to be a good idea given what my career plans might be but a lot of the people that that Jim deals with our folks who haven't looked beyond what will be a relatively short career for them and I certainly have to applaud him and Gary Halverson of our colleges new college program for for taking on this this Center and for adopting its it fits in very well with the college's Mission Part of its Mission, which is to in a very real sense. Plug into the Metropolitan Community and deal with the needs of the community and pro athletes are certainly part of this community. When you look at the amount of money spent on professional Athletics when you look at the numbers of pro athletes and in certainly it's even increasing with the Timberwolves coming into existence now, but many of these folks are from lower socioeconomic groups who have been brought into colleges or universities primarily because of their athletic abilities and indeed had to pursue that route to be able to get their education as they needed some way of financing their education and may not have had the sort of Parental support that people who are attending Saint Thomas might have and during the course of their four or five years at that institution were very well prepared to go on to be a professional athlete but may not have had the preparation necessary to go on to some other type of a career it is also I think a gross misunderstanding that The public has that pro athletes in general are highly paid individuals who will have long and glorious careers. When you look at the the length of time required to become a pension player in the NFL or the NBA or any other of the other professional sports you begin to realize that the average career of a professional athlete is very very short. It's also a very dangerous type of a career in there are many risks an individual takes. So this is this also this plugs into the needs of the community but in a very real sense, there's a social justice issue at stake here and I think for that reason it's very important Mark Dean heart and Jim Radke of the College of st. Thomas or with me this afternoon on sport folio. I'm J.G. Preston here on ksjn 1330. We're talking about the have to look at the paper again Center for academics and sports at the College of st. Thomas providing some educational and career counseling opportunities for professional athletes in the Twin Cities. Established on the college campus particular questions about the setter and the whole issue of Life Beyond Athletics for pro athletes. 2276 thousand is our phone. Number two two seven six thousand is the number to call its 30 minutes after 12 o'clock here on ksjn 1330 now marking your case when you enrolled at the College of st. Thomas is an undergraduate. I mean clearly you're not on a football scholarship the very very few players from that level ever go on to Pro careers. Clearly. You were not thinking about pursuing a professional career as an athlete although I suppose it had to have been at least tempting to think about it. Once you got to the point where you did that you were in an NFL training camp how great was the temptation to say. Well, maybe this is how I'll really concentrate on football and really make this my my career goal. Well, it certainly is is tempting and more so know when we're dealing with I think perhaps a more attractive picture for the average player in terms of starting salaries good examples of the other situation you're detailing. Or even better examples and then my own would be Jim Gustafson and Neil guga most to meet two of my former players who are now members of the Minnesota Vikings. Both of those individuals could have played at division one institutions, but chose the division three orientation. That's the reason they picked a school like st. Thomas. It's not because I couldn't compete at the division one level. It was just that they were interested in perhaps pursuing two sports. Both of them were track all Americans as well as being football Americans and they were a little bit there were concerned about making Sports a career in their Collegiate Experience. That wasn't something they were looking for they're looking for something different. They're looking for an emphasis on academics and I think that that's an inputs important to to try to get yourself into the mindset of an athlete who's going into a college setting these folks Jim Neil and in my case, certainly we weren't planning on a career in athletics. Me as a coach or the two of them as professional athletes. It happens. It's great and it's something that's very enjoyable. But all the while you're preparing yourself for what you consider to be that that real world out there in the you're trying to tap into your other abilities and trying to find a place for yourself when that career in sports is over because we all know the again doesn't last very long. Let's go to the phones for some of your questions for Mark Dean heart and Jim Radke 2276 thousand is a phone number. We have a caller standing by and maple wood. Hi Bruce. (00:11:20) Hi. I kind of have maybe more of a comment than a question and I kind of disagree with both these gentlemen's perceptions and that's to couple things one. I'm a graduate of a Big Ten University and these student quote athletes are sure I say at this quote students are baby doll the way through High School junior high school and college. Why should we feel sorry for em, if they come out and a professional sports where they get paid more than the average Joe and don't know what they're doing. Why should we have to do anything? Them David baby doll their life the you know, the do we go out for the poor truck driver whose company goes out of business and send him through some kind of school and teach him what to do. As far as Rehabilitation. The man was making $20,000 a year why these athletes are making anywhere from sixty to a hundred thousand dollars or better and then here we are with babying them again. I just want to know why why st. Thomas College or any schools bothering to do this the gym gusterson's and the Neil Google most are exceptions to the rule. They were students. How about the 50% of the other figures that you quoted it never even went to class but we'll let will baby through school so they could be eligible and the day that their season end. It was the last day they ever attended a (00:12:30) class. That's a good point Jim. How do you handle it? Well, I think actually we're not in disagreement part of what he's saying is exactly what I mentioned before is that an awful lot of the professional athletes have been exploited in college. There are Colleges certain of fortunately not in our immediate area who have just an abominable record as far as the their their athletes and they're graduating ratio one college done in the southeastern United States in 12 years among their athletes had actually graduated something like 20 or 25 athletes over a period of 15 years, which is just you know, obviously there is exploitation. The the other thing that we are trying to do is to is to help these people to overcome some of the problems that have been created in terms of some of the coddling as this caller is mentioned and help them to to become independent and be able to prepare for life so that they're going to be you know, productive citizens and so forth. J.G. Had I would just say that I am in disagreement on that particular point. And the reason I am is that I think that takes a very very harsh view of the situation of a division 1 athlete. The first thing is Jim points out is that athletes in this particular case are many times victims. They're not some of those folks are just aren't meant to be in colleges or universities. They're not prepared for it. And there that probably wouldn't have been there normal decision to make if they hadn't been recruited as outstanding athletes and they find themselves then thrust into a setting where they have to be able to compete with people who aren't who are in terms of their own native gifts and abilities. They should be in colleges or universities. I should also point out that this isn't a hand-holding or mollycoddling situation for these athletes who are returning to this program. It's a courageous move on the part of a professional athlete to recognize at some point during the course of their pro career that hey I made a mistake way back when I Work hard enough at getting my degree perhaps or I was exploited way back when I didn't take the courses that I needed to take at the time. I took what was recommended so I could remain eligible to step back into an academic setting and to say I'm going to become an Alan page. I'm going to I'm going to do something productive with with the this time while I'm in athletics so that I'm ready to step into a career where I can contribute to society after I'm done I think is a move again that I would applaud. It's a it's a realization that there's something more there these athletes also in Jim hasn't touched on it yet or involved in an outreach program as part of this they commit themselves to going out and speaking to high school students and to preaching to those high school students the value of an education talking to them about how important it is to make sure that you pursue your academic degree work at the same time that that that you're pursuing excellence in the area of Athletics and and believe me. It's very very important for these people. At the time that they're in college to be able to please a bunch of coaches who are expecting great things from them expecting a lot of time from them and there are a lot of pressures on those coaches to be able to produce winning teams. Otherwise, they simply don't have jobs now in that to that extent. I'm in disagreement because I think that we're here being very judgmental about a very very difficult situation that a division 1 or even division two athletes face. Now, I think Bruce also is clearly upset about the idea of an outreach program involving athletes as opposed to other members of society and why would st. Thomas get involved with the the athlete as a group as opposed to name it single parents truck drivers Bruce brought up. Well, there are a lot of programs that we have at st. Thomas and continuing education programs that are reaching out to a more general population. So it is it's not by way of segmenting off that part of society it is however recognizing a very important need there and also its Way of recognizing the growing numbers of professional athletes in the Twin City area. I also think it's recognizing that this simply is a problem and that among our high school students. There has to be that voice there has to be that voice that people at the high school level will look up to and Alan Page somebody like an Alan Page who's going to come out and say it's awfully important for you folks to not to believe that you're all going to end up being professional athletes one day and that you have to have expectations beyond your your high school or college playing days and it's time to think about that right here. And now right when you're in high school and that's what these many of these athletes who are coming back to school and Jim's program are committing to do and I would think June that's really where this kind of program is the potential for a much greater impact much greater good than just unnecessarily limited group of former professional athletes by using them as Role Models, I guess or whatever else you want to call them as very visible people in the community in the In cities around the state maybe that's you know, so many more lives they're going to influence to go ahead and do something else with their lives in addition to Athletics aside from Athletics as they're growing up. Well, that's right. And I think you know, a lot of the problem can be nipped in the bud and a lot of the attitudes can be changed by starting out with the with the young aspiring athlete a lot of young people. I think look at professional Athletics is a way to escape from their environment or is a way a sure way to success and so forth and and that's not true. And that's why as far as our program is concerned. We don't want to lose sight of the fact that the outreach program is equally as important as the continuing education program for the professional athlete because we've got to help these young people to realize for example that the the odds of a high school basketball player making it in the pros. Our 10,000 to 1 even even the odds of getting a college athletic scholarship are 1 in 50. So, you know, those are pretty tough odds when it comes right down to it. And of course this message coming from from parents and Educators and so forth doesn't have the impact that it has when it's coming from a professional athlete who has already recognized the problems and so forth and and that it isn't a sure guarantee of success. It's Jim Radke the director of the new center for academics and sports at the College of st. Thomas also with this is Mark Dean heart the executive director of public affairs and former football coach at st. Thomas. I'm J.G. Preston and you're listening this portfolio here on ksjn 1330 23 minutes after 12 o'clock. We invite your phone calls with comments and questions 2276 thousand is our phone. Number two, two seven six thousand the number to call here on sport folio. Okay, Jim an athlete active or retired because apparently you have some of you have openings for some of each in this program comes to you and wants to get involved. He's already done with his playing career and is finding that he's not satisfied with what life holds for him. He's thinking about what he's going to do when his careers over what actually happens in the program when you get the athlete involved what kind of things is that person involved? Well, actually we'd like to start with with the athletes, you know as rookies for example, because we feel it's real important to have them start developing some goals and objectives for Life After Sports. So what we do is we go and contact the teams present our program to them and then we establish what we call bridging courses. Now, these are in the nature of an extension type. Of course, if you will somewhat abbreviated course from from a full semester credit program. But they're they're designed to be very practical in terms of the the skills. And so forth that they will learn presently. We're working with the North Stars. We have a career development program, whereby they're having an opportunity to go through them with some assessment in terms of looking at their skills their abilities personality style and that type of thing so that they have the tools to develop various objectives and so forth and and then we encourage them to utilize their offseason for example for internships and offseason work experiences so that they have something more to bring to the table at the end of their playing career than just the fact that they played sports for for a period of time but along with that then we encourage them to become involved in the full academic program so that they can set their sights to completing their degree work and we were talking off the air about the the particular North Stars you have involved in the program right now and Guess I was kind of surprised to hear these weren't guys who were just maybe hanging onto a fringe playing career in the NHL or guys nearing the end of the line these involve some pretty talented hockey players who clearly are making pretty good money right now and are still thinking about what's going to happen to them when it's time to hang up the skates, right? And and I've had had some of them mentioned to me that they are starting to feel a little bit more positive about themselves and a lot of the anxiety and concern about what might happen in the event of their of their being injured as a result of going through a program such as this so although I don't have any any hard statistics that I can I can use I'm inclined to feel that they probably could be more productive on the playing field as a result of having this type of experience and it's interesting you bring up the threat of injury. I know that the John Cassidy know the X twin is on your board of advisors for this program at st. Thomas and he's a guy who was lucky. He got hurt. It was a terrible thing at Very painful injury still but at least he had the security of a guaranteed contract and still had a nice income for several years after that. That's very very rare. I mean most professional athletes if they get hurt and they're done financially there through I mean contracts aren't guaranteed for the most part and if you're injured once that particular contract usually one year has expired. There's no further obligation to you on the part of the team. So so really your income can be stopped virtually at any time, right? So as a result some of these guys get a little more anxious to start thinking about what they're going to do is they see friends teammates. It happens every year Fall by the wayside. Well, you know, just the average career expectancy from varies from anywhere from three and a half to four and a half to five years depending upon the the sport. So it's pretty short time in their in their total life span. Now you've been involved in counseling athletes prior to coming to st. Thomas right Jim Yes. Actually I had worked for an organization that Headed up by Matt Blair called professional advantages and we were working as agents for professional athletes and included in our program was a variety of other services such as financial planning Legal Services accounting services and career Counseling Services, which was my role with that organization. I would just guess that the easy part of counseling especially career counseling or continuing education with pro athletes. It's probably easy once they get to you. I mean if they're willing to make the commitment and recognize the need and come to st. Thomas or or go to somebody and say I want to make sure I can do something with the rest of my life. I would I would I would think that covers a relatively small proportion of the total number of athletes. I would guess that there's a lot more who not only don't come to you but don't even think about it as an option and either just think it's going to go on forever or just don't worry about it. Like a lot of people I mean, you know there there are not athletes of plenty of that Bunch just Don't Focus that far ahead in the future. So how do you go out and get those people involved in something like this? How do you begin the process of making it more Universal? Well, it's not easy because as you say it, you know, it's a matter of personal Perceptions in terms of you know, what's going to happen. And how long is my career going to continue and so forth. I think we all you know, like to live under the delusion that it can go on and on and and and I think there's a certain amount of avoidance in terms of not wanting to admit or being fearful of of if I do admit it. Maybe something's going to happen, you know type of thing. So it is it is difficult, but I think a lot can be accomplished in terms of just the peers and peer pressure if their teammates see certain number of the players being involved in the program. I think that in itself will be helpful. It's also been helpful. J.G. Do have the groups like The National Football League Players Association of which I'm a retired member take a real interest in this and I the interest an interest in life after a player's athletic career is over those organizations those unions become involved in urging players to plan for that sort of thing. And so many times it's not a matter of gym or somebody like Jim going out and encouraging people to start focusing beyond their immediate playing career, but it's already something that's the tie on the their agenda of Interest. So let's get into the point of the message is starting to come from a number of different directions and it's kind of the repetition alone is enough to kind of reinforce it and actually these this program has been endorsed by the nflpa the National Football League Players Association as well as the National Hockey League Players Association and others so they the association's Knows the need and I would suppose a few years hence. Now, you're going to be getting more and more athletes who have started hearing the message maybe in high school maybe from people who are involved in in programs, like the one at st. Thomas former athletes who've gone out and have started planting that seed early that you've got to come up with something else Jim Radke the director of the center for academics and sports at the College of st. Thomas. Also Mark Dean heart, the college's director of public affairs executive director Mark. I don't want to slide your title there. So I should hope not our guest Sons portfolio this afternoon. I'm J.G. Preston. It's twelve Thirty One twenty nine minutes before one o'clock here on ksjn 1330. Good afternoon everyone. This is Mark heisted encouraging you to stay tuned to ksjn thirteen Thirty this afternoon coming up at 1 o'clock. It's an abbreviated version of our week in review program one hour only this week because at two o'clock, we'll bring you the Democratic presidential candidates in debate from Atlanta, Georgia that's coming up this afternoon here on ksjn 13:30. What a wonderful day in the Twin Cities. It is today sunny and pleasant we're going to get up in the 40s before the day is over with just a light Breeze out of the South partly cloudy and Mild tonight. It'll only get down just below freezing and the temperature start going up towards the morning warm and windy officially in the forecast for tomorrow partly cloudy skies and highs will be in the 40s. Once again, let's live it up March is almost here. No further developments, by the way in the Northwest to Airline talks between management and labor. And as far as we know nobody's on strike right now, but that could change so stay tuned. We'll try to keep you up to date on that one. We have caller standing by for Jim Radke and Mark Dean heart of the College of st. Thomas 2276 thousand is our phone number here on sport folio and we'll go to st. Paul. Hi John. (00:28:31) Hi, good afternoon. I am a graduate of college st. Thomas and I appreciate the program's of college always seems to be coming up with new programs year after year and applaud those efforts. I had some misgivings as did the initial collars afternoon about some of the Favoritism and so forth. It seems to be part of our society with regard to athletes but I also applied marks ability to recognize this as a problem and something we should be dealing with. It seems to me too that there's kind of fundamental issue which needs to be addressed on that is recognizing that Sports and to some extent education being big businesses. And in that regard many people profit by them. And so your letter comments this afternoon about the players associations recognizing this problem in recognizing the program are welcome. But what about schools and the business people involved in sport boats in terms of agents and owners, what's happening there? Could you also describe a little bit the cost structure of the program in St. Thomas and how these athletes are paying for it do their teams. For example Involved in the payment as well. (00:29:50) Good question John now, I just want you to clarify the first part of the question John I get the the second part about how the this program gets paid for. But you just would you clarify that the earlier part please (00:29:58) for example in going out to some of the schools high schools and letting kids know that they need to begin developing some alternative directions with room if they're if they're athletes were thinking about going on to college and pro ranks. I think it also needs to be addressed to them why the situation develops is the fact that when they get into professional sports, especially that it's a business as opposed to strictly an amateur sport undertaking and that to some extent they are commodity in that Marketplace and when their usefulness as a commodity is spent that the only person looking out for them at that point is themselves perhaps and maybe their Players Association. Okay, (00:30:45) let's take up that issue first and then we'll talk about the nuts and bolts of Paying for the program will J.G. That gets into one of those. Those are Mega issues and John brings up a an awfully important Point. There's something in our society and we all know it that that appreciates the winner and can't stand the loser were real concerned about how we're doing. The Winter Olympics were real concerned about what the medal count is were not particularly concerned about all these folks from all these different countries getting together, or maybe we are but we still want to know whether we're getting gold silver or bronze and how come we're not getting more when you filter that down to the situation of a major college athletic program, you find people operating under tremendous pressures. If I'm the football coach at a major college. I have to be concerned about what the bottom line shows every year. That means are people coming to watch me play if they're not coming to watch me play. Maybe it's because my team isn't good enough if we win a lot thank they're probably going to be a lot of folks in the stands and and I'm probably going to be in a situation where the bottom line Looks an awful lot better that. Kind of piles up on top of what I perceived to be my duty to the athletes in terms of providing them with a good opportunity to have educational experiences outside of the classroom to develop something on the playing field and might not be able to develop in the classroom. And I look at people like John goons to whom I'm proud of the type of program that he runs and I look at them and say they're running these programs these clean programs these Fair programs these programs that do a good job of trying to strike a balance in spite of all of those pressures. Why is Joe Paterno's program considered to be something of an anomaly and and division one Athletics? Well, it's because it's difficult to be able to fight those different types of pressures as they exist. And where does it come from? Well, it comes from society as a whole and how do you go about changing that sort of thing? It's difficult. It's overly I think we overly sent it. We become overly simplistic when we think about this. Sometimes we think that maybe We can do is just say okay no more scholarships back to the classroom. Let's let's all let's change this whole routine and and make it more like it is in high school or whatever else practically speaking that sort of thing is impossible. And again, it's a it's a mega issue that has to be dealt with in a number of different fronts. I think the way this program deals with that Mega issue is that you have people like athletes who have tremendous status within our society and all of the studies that I've seen almost from renowned Sports sociologists contend that athletes achieve this status by virtue of their expertise in their given areas and that high school kids very much look up to these folks and when you have somebody like that coming out and saying to you don't focus on what I'm doing in the playing field right now think about the fact that you're not likely to get here and think about how important it is that you become a doggone good high school student to Here yourself for college and go on to college and get that degree. You've got a lot better chance of becoming a lawyer and a doctor than you do of becoming a professional football player basketball player or hockey player. That's one way you deal with that Mega issue and that's one reason why this program I think is pretty important. The thing that makes so many people uncomfortable. I think is that and there's I don't think there's any parallel for than any other country in the world, but in this country institutions of higher education are also very much involved in the entertainment business. I mean major college sports is is a by necessity a revenue producing money making entertainment industry which in and of itself has very little to do with education but historically, I mean we're talking about over the course of a century it's developed and it goes back to the very beginnings of college sports when you know, you go back and look at accounts of football in the 1880s and 90s and they were all ringers. I mean at first there were no eligibility requirements and anybody could play for a college team and we've never been able to separate the two and so people are still uncomfortable. Because they're there because it's the university sponsoring the organization. There's always this juxtaposition of Athletics in education and they don't always go together. I mean, it's nice that they can go together. It's nice that there are guys even in major college sports. You can go through and get a real education and and find other things to do with their lives after that but the prop but what makes I think the college we've heard so far and a lot of other people uncomfortable is that there's this expectation that because it's an academic environment that there's necessarily going to be some learning going on in it as Mark as you started to point out there for the coach. That's not necessarily the primary motivation. His motivation is to keep his job. Yeah. I think we had nothing to do with education as a surly. I think the I think for certain coaches and particularly the ones I've identified I think providing that educational experience is the reason they got into that type of a job and I think that very for them very much. It's the overriding reason why they continue to perform in that capacity. I think that we all simply have to be cognizant of the pressures that come to to bear on people like Division one coaches and like Division 1 players on whom those expectations are also placed if I'm a division one player. I've I know that I've got coaches career riding on the my performance on any one night if I don't hit my 24 points and if I'm not grabbing my 12 rebounds then Coach Smith and his family may be out on the street the next day and we laugh about that. But again, it's part of it's very real. I also know John brought up another interesting Mega issue and I won't get us off in the stratosphere here somewhere GMO will get back to the program and the second but the you know, I think I think division one sports to a great extent take a bad rap sometime when it's not deserved. And when this this kind of came to the fore when when we had when climb Haskins after climb Haskins came in and and Jim Dutcher was left the University of Minnesota basketball program, but it's a naive expectation on the part of people I think. The students are supposed to be able to graduate after four years and you're supposed to be able to do that in spite of what might be the time demanded of them for a division one type of a program. That's tough. It's tough to be in a situation where you've got to go to meetings at two o'clock. You've got to go to practice at three o'clock. You got to go to more meetings after that. You've got to go eat dinner. Then you've got to go to study hall and your entire afternoon and evening is blocked up doing that sort of thing but more so there's a national Trend now for students to take longer to graduate. There's they're stopping out there you're going in the internship programs that are working more. There's a rising cost of Education people are more concerned about the number of different factors that come into play in their college careers. A lot of the folks that Jim will be dealing with in a lot of the people who will be involved in this program are not people who simply disregard their college education, but it'll be people who during the course of their four or five years simply weren't able to get all the courses taken during that period of time they may recognize the value of it. But they also may be 650 miles away from what they hoped would have it would be their alma mater. I would if kneeler Jim were in a situation where they had to pick up course work. I sure would like them to to know as their coach their college coach that they had that opportunity somewhere in Long Beach if that's where they were somewhere in in Tucson or or wherever else. So again, I think what we're dealing with is a situation where athletes many times simply don't have the opportunity to pick up that degree during the four or five years where they're where they're involved in that Athletic program at the division one level because of the pressures but also because of what is now a national Trend to do different things during the course of your of your college career and I would be remiss if I didn't point out that at some schools graduation rates are better among Varsity athletes and they are among the student body as a whole and that is not uncommon to see and you would expect it would be that Way because if you're having your education paid for if you've got five years to do it, you've got a scholarship over that period of time if you've got tutors that are supposed to help you be able to pass courses and provide you with additional attention. You would expect that we would be would move people along toward graduation and that they would be able to graduate. But again you go you go back to some major universities you're going out to seven years now to reach a 50% retention graduation rate among the general student body. Not just the athlete but as a whole right Jim you want to take up the issue of the cost of the program and and how you expect or hope that it'll be paid for. Well, actually the the athlete themselves pays tuition both for the bridging course as well as for the academic the full academic programs just like any other student so it in no way is a handout or are there any particular concessions made or anything such as that as far as the outreach program is concerned we Include that as as part of an experiential learning experience in terms of communications and that type of thing but they bear the cost of it themselves as individuals. I understand that in some franchises. They might be some of the teams might be contributing but I don't have any actual figures on that. That's clearly something you'd like to encourage though to try to increase participation in the program. Well seems more involved in financial incentives. Yeah, and you know that follows the the model that that has been established by business and industry in terms of encouraging their employees to be involved in continuing education programs and that type of thing so it would it would follow that type of trend. Okay, Jim Radke and Mark Dean heart of the College of st. Thomas here on sport folio this afternoon. Oh, I was gonna turn around but our caller must have had his question taken care of so I'm not gonna be okay two two seven six thousand is our phone number if you have a question or comment for Jim Radke the director of the center for academics and sports at the College of st. Thomas also marketing our executive director for public affairs it CST. I'm J.G. Preston. Succour Turtle 150 minutes before one o'clock Thrones portfolio. Get back to the phones and just a second. It's kind of tangential what we've been talking about Mark, but maybe just have you talked in your case why you decided to get out of Athletics get out of coaching here, you'd established yourself as a successful coach surely could have spent the rest of your working life involved in coaching at one level or another. Why did you decide to get out of that and get into the College administration the public affairs type of role you're in now? Well the besides the fact my wife ordered me to do that. She must have had her reasons clearly lifestyle was an issue when it was a the the grind of a coaches like well actually it was finally my five-year-old said it was it was yucky when she didn't see Dad and the weekend that was the final here. No, actually the for some of us the I think the primary reason why we're involved in working with college age students is simply the contact with people in that age group and I think Athletics provides a tremendous opportunity for people to develop as individuals, all of the effects studies that have been done regarding higher education indicate that there is at least as much development in those effective areas or areas. Like I suppose you could call it character or values or whatever else as there is in the intellectual area and what how do people develop that way when they're in college. Well, it's by their affiliations. The social integration that takes place at the college level that might be in dormitories and might be in clubs. It might be in social groups and certainly in athletics and those those lessons that are learned. That's not just at right phrase. It's very difficult. If you're a coach to walk in after the team has lost that big game than employing for are all year long and try to make some sense out of the whole thing and try to deal with the feelings of those athletes at that at that time to try to put Place perspective on that sort of thing the athletes running through a gamut of emotions that went that way. They're very special people. They're very special people looking for this type of experience and you can provide them with that in athletics. But but dealing with people in that age category, I think is the is the bottom line for some of us and you can do that in any number of different ways and and the greater impact you can have I think the better off you are and for me that was accepting a position of additional responsibility and being able to perhaps That impact out over over more students. I might mention however that the part of my decision to leave pro football at the time. I was involved in it was a type of decision that many of the athletes that Jim deals with must be going through and that was just a realization that I wasn't particularly good in comparison to the folks that I that surrounded me and I had no intention to be involved in an activity where I was consistently mediocre or even believe even worse than that and I'm sure that they the Buffalo Bills had no intention of either being mediocre worse than that. But but nonetheless it was a it was a very cold hard assessment that I can do something better than I can do this and sooner or later. There's somebody else going to come along who's faster and bigger and stronger and and that's going to be it it hits it hits some of us like me earlier it hits other people later when they may be getting a little older and a step slower but nonetheless those are realizations that come to you and when you're involved in athletics that you have to deal. And getting right back to the program. That's what this is all about. Let's go back to the phones for some more your questions for Jim Radke and Mark Dean heart to to 76 thousand. We have a caller standing by in st. Paul. Hi Joe, (00:44:40) right? I understand that Notre Dame doesn't Redshirt anybody and I understand they have a pretty high level of graduation amongst their football team why I realize that you know, there's different people all over this country, you know and different values set different prerequisites before you can enter our various University, but why can't that spread out just a little bit more than what it is. I wonder if you could comment and Notre Dame of a bit more (00:45:18) that's a good question. The Notre Dame's the Penn State's of this world. There are programs where they compete at a very high level of athletic ability and still put the priorities on academics and get the job done in the classroom, and let's not forget. Ivy league and stand for it either the there are obviously great examples that can serve as models for other schools to get into Notre Dame. You have to be a pretty doggone student who's who's pretty who has a pretty good chance of graduating from college to begin with there's some selection process going on even before they get onto campus. Well, there are entrance requirements for any of those schools and at Notre Dame and at places like Stanford and places like Harvard and Yale and Dartmouth, you don't find them fudging to any great extent to get athletes. And so once that person has been selected in that manner, they're likely to be people who are going to end up graduating many of the people and Jim would have to address this but many of the people I'm sure he'll deal with our folks who may not have gone to very selective institutions. Mmm. So they may not have come into college with the same sorts of intellectual gifts that many of those Notre Dame athletes have to be accepted. Nonetheless. It's I think it's just great that you see examples like the Notre Dame example and the Penn State example and what you see at the in the ivy League's and Stanford and Berkeley and other places where there is a realization that these folks are here to be students primarily their athletic. What they do in terms of Athletics is very important and I think there would be a lot of people who would contend to you that Notre Dame has its reputation at least in part because of its outstanding Athletic program. And in much of its visibility is related to that outstanding Athletic program whenever somebody gives me a hits me with the enrollment Notre Dame, I think to myself my God, how can that school be so well known well to a great expense well known because of its Athletic program and I don't think that I think that Athletics is awfully important to people at Notre Dame, but nonetheless, I do a good job of keeping that in perspective. It certainly is important to the Chicago subway alums who weren't very happy with with Gerry Faust. But again, those examples of cases where coaches have been pressured. Or whatever are very minimal and in a situation of a school like Notre Dame or some of the others we've mentioned as to how that can spread. It tends to be the case that this is true at a private school a school that can be very selective not that's not the case at Berkeley weather and maybe some others met with some other state institutions. But nonetheless, I think that we have to realize that there's a part of higher education. I think that we would all buy into which is that it can provide access to a broad spectrum of people. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm going to start to create an argument that only folks with 24 a CTS. And if you don't know what that means that means you're fairly fairly bright or people who fall in the top 10% of their graduating class can go on to colleges or universities that would rule out an awful lot of people. I think that that have an opportunity to learn a lot and contribute a great deal to society. So I don't know that I want to see everybody become a Notre Dame or a Sanford or see everybody become a an Ivy League institution. What I would like to do is just to make sure that we get some perspective back into the situation. And again, that's what our caller is suggesting. I mean, I think it's unrealistic to expect there to be very many Notre Dame type situations in the country just because there's only so many outstanding students who are excellent football players in this country and let's face it if they want to go somewhere where they can do the best of both. They're going to go to a place like Notre Dame or a handful of others. I mean you look at a guy like Rod Smith at Roseville a good student a great football player by all accounts if he wants to actually be in a position where he can get a good education and play for a national championship. There's only two or three places he can go right now and and you know, the there just aren't going to be enough kids at that level to spread around. I don't know if people should really be looking at any particular institution of establishing that that same level as the the niche is not that big. There's just not that much room. I think the other thing too getting back to the root of this whole thing. An inclined to make a lot of concessions and as and kind of accept mediocrity even on the high school level, for example, there are only seven states. Now that have enacted some kind of legislation requiring a c average or better for participation in extracurricular activities and sports and Minnesota is not one of them. Do we are not one of them? So, you know, this is a movement that's very very slow to be accepted in terms of recognizing that the primary purpose for that young person in being in school is the academic and and the others are secondary Jim. Maybe you can talk for a little bit about the particular problems that an athlete faces in adjusting to life outside of sports, you know getting into the the 925 working world. Like the rest of us are even if it is five in the morning till noon in some of our cases, but what are the particular kind of differences that are really tough for the athlete overcome that you can kind of address with the Well, I think one of the one of the major things is the fact that for for so many years starting back in high school. For example, they've led a very highly structured life. And in much of their time has been planned for them and so forth and a lot of them and again, I'm generalizing because there certainly are exceptions but a lot of them find it difficult to make that transition into organize their time once they're put on their own and so forth. There are a number of other factors that come in that whole bit of going from a position of being very highly visible very easily recognizable and so forth literally going from hero to zero. I almost overnight that's very very difficult to accept just the change in lifestyle to go from the the income level that they are at as a professional athlete to something less than that. In terms of starting a new career and so forth that can be very difficult. So there are a lot of factors that enter into its social sociological economical and so forth. You would think though that the especially the professional athlete has got some has got some skill advantages and some of the things that he or she's done to become an outstanding athlete. I mean the kind of discipline the kind of application to task the ability to concentrate and focus over long periods of time the teamwork the ability to work with other people in many cases in team sports. I'd have to think that a lot of those skills would transfer very readily to both the academic world and the Working World. Well they do but of course in the business World, those are those are very intangible and a person has to have an opportunity to prove that they have those skills. It's one thing to say, you know, I applied them in say an Take environment. But another thing to say that I can transfer those skills and apply them into say a business environment. And so you've got to bring other skills along with that in terms of knowledge and and and so forth to supplement those skills. I also think it's another thing to have confidence that you can apply those skills and be successful in other areas and I Jim I think touched on the major issue that I've identified at least in in in dealing with some professional athletes and people who have been involved in athletics for long periods of time even as amateurs, they tend not to want to give it up because they so closely identify that activity with their own personal identity. And we all do that. I mean when somebody says so tell me who you are what you've what you tend to turn to right away is to tell them what you do your occupation, right? And if you and if you do it and do it, well, it's the primary source of of Pride that you have in yourself. You have self-esteem and everything else. Now how hard is it to give up something like that? Well, it's it's awfully hard if that's been the primary source of Those warm fuzzies that you've had your entire life and if that to a great extent spells you to other people. So I think you have to have you have to have some level of comfort that you can you can you can satisfy your own need to be to achieve and to be good at something and to be a the type of person you want to be in another area. Now Jim is a program going to be actively involved in setting up internships for athletes that come and get involved at st. Thomas and and getting them some some first-hand working experience in various careers. Well, actually the the student that are the the athlete that it gets involved in. The program is entitled to the same support services and so forth that the college provides as well as any other student, so I did include areas of career counseling internship placement services and those types of things so they have a lot of things that they can benefit from by partaking in the program. Do you help once? In the program helped them know what's out there what's available to them? And then it's up to them to kind of take some initiative after that, right? It's been an enjoyable hour gentlemen. I thank you for coming over Jim Radke the director of the center for academics and sports. I wanted to look at the sheet once here at the College of st. Thomas and Mark Dean heart the former football coach and St. Thomas who's now the executive director of public affairs. Thanks. Thanks for coming over. I wish you luck with the program. It sounds like you're going to have a chance to do some interesting work here with and I think it's like several years. We're looking forward to dealing with former broadcasters at some point if they're unreliable 88 of life here. Thanks for coming on with this here on sport folio. My thanks for their help to mr. Jeff mcandrew who answered the telephone and a mister. Dave sleep who did the technical Wizardry. My thanks to you for listening. I appreciate it next week. I do believe we're having discussion about the horse racing industry in the state of Minnesota. And what's going on to Canterbury Downs and in a couple of weeks. We're going to talk about financing Olympic dream. That's my Hope. Anyway, I'm J.G. Preston. Thanks for listening. See you again next week here on sport folio. This Is ksjn 1330 Minneapolis st. Paul is coming up on one o'clock lovely day we're going to have highs in the 40s both today and tomorrow world and national news is next from the Associated Press and then right after that Mark High state has the week in review it's one o'clock.