(00:00:01) Our live broadcast of the Minnesota meeting are made possible by the Twin Cities based law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and (00:00:07) Donnelly. Good afternoon. My name is Bill George and I'm president of the Industrial Automation control business at Honeywell. It's a pleasure to welcome all of you today to the Minnesota meeting, which is being sponsored by Honeywell and by the Spring Hill Center. We would like to extend a special welcome to the National Specialists on work and family issues who are participating in a Springhill Symposium to raise critical emerging issues are the implications for Working Families the workplace and Society at Large. I also extend a welcome to the radio audience throughout the Upper Midwest who is hearing this program live today on Minnesota public radio's. Midday program. This broadcast is sponsored by the Oppenheimer wolf Donnelly Law Firm. Minnesota meeting is a public affairs form which brings National and international speakers to Minnesota over 1800 corporate government and Community leaders belong to the Minnesota meeting. The next scheduled meeting of the for the Minnesota meeting is dr. Glenn see Lowry who will speak on November 4th. His speech is titled self-sufficiency and responsibility new directions for relationships between the needy and the state. The Minnesota meeting is pleased to present today's program which is titled changing family's changing Corporation. What's the bottom line following the round table discussion. Our guests will be happy to take your questions. Please use the index cards which are at your tables to jot down questions during the discussion. Yawns, maybe president Spring Hill Center and Sonia Karen's Project Director of the work and family project will move among you to manage a question and answer session. I'd like to introduce today's panel. Dr. Very grief is a visiting professor of Psychiatry of Occupational Psychiatry at The Institute of learning in Hartford. And he is a noted consultant to major corporations on work and family issues. Dr. Graf will lead a discussion among three corporate Executives whose companies are all headquarter quartered in our Twin Cities metropolitan area. Marjorie Williams is founder president and chief executive officer of she Incorporated in Laura kaspari limited a clothing retail company with 19 stores located throughout the country. Larry Perlman is Executive Vice President of control data and president of its storage a data storage group RV Gallup. My far right is President and chief executive officer of IDs Financial Services. (00:02:52) It (00:02:53) is now my pleasure to introduce our distinguished guests to discuss a topic which has great current importance and which is increasingly being tied to major issues of productivity in the corporate world. Thank you very much. This has been an extraordinary two weeks particularly on Wall Street has been a great deal of uncertainty Norma's amount of fear mistrust for some people loss of confidence. And for a number of people a feeling of loss of control. All of this uncertainty has forced us. I think to reassess and reorganize some of our priorities and to proactively look at what the issues are ahead. Now the economic situation affecting corporations and clearly affecting all of us have interesting parallels in the work family situation because it's my belief is an equal storm brewing and developing with regard to the failure of various organizations to recognize the impact in the role of families in the role of work and by work, I mean a human activity that produces something that has meaning and value to the person over a period of time in a particular setting. I say there's a storm brewing because just as if you look at economic forecasts and you look at indicators of what the economic climate might be. So if one looks at the world of families, we see major changing demographics with a new shift in various power forces and families. We see a movement of industries that are dying to new ones being established. We see a society which is moving from heavy manufacturing to more service oriented and we see enormous competition from particularly Pacific Rim countries affecting the ways, we look at productivity and innovation. So that we no longer looking I think at the issues of family as a motherhood issue or a fatherhood issue, which is historically be seen as a soft tissue. As a matter of fact, one of the interesting things all of you may have noted over the past two weeks is that all of the major brokerage houses have taken ads in the New York Times and all of the major papers dealing with quote soft issues saying to their consumers. Don't worry, we'll take care of you. It's as good as gold. We're solid. We're secure all of them designed to produce historically as would families tended to produce was to reduce the degree of uncertainty. What I'm interested in discussing this afternoon is a number of changes that are occurring in society that are already here. We have a change in Old rules with regard to work and family. We now recognize that no one group has it made and that we're all interdependence. We also recognize I think those who are aware that in certainty is a given that changes forever and that the responsibility will no longer rest with a federal government or a group taking care of things. And so I'd like to really discuss with the panel this afternoon somewhat critical issues that are not soft tissues but very hard issues and I'd like to open up the first question to anyone on the panel and ask the question. Do you really believe that work family issues are motherhood issues or do they really have some clout? How can we convert the rhetoric into practice? (00:06:41) I think I just got to look (00:06:43) at more than (00:06:46) what I think all of us perceive that there are major changes in demographics that have been taking place over the last 20 years. We're we look at the workforce today and we have virtually half the workforce is female that's impacted both the woman employee, but it's also a of course impacting the male employee I think in a business week article. It said the old Family Vision that we had the Ozzie and Harriet white picket fence type family where the husband was out working. The wife was attending the children and the children were doing their thing. That's now 10% of the of All American households. So clearly is demographic shifts are taking place. It's putting new she stresses on on companies and they're in their employees. Whether it's a purely female issue, is it is it just an issue affecting women I think is been very clearly documented by some of the research done by Honeywell and the conference board where we see that for example, and also Fortune Magazine. There was a Fortune magazine article that said that 30 percent of the men who were interviewed in their survey said that they had refused to either a job a transfer or a promotion because of family related issues because they felt the the job was going to put more stress on them than they wanted to allocate. (00:08:14) Let me stop for a second. Let me ask if we can get a definition. It's not an easy definition. What do you mean? What do you think we mean when we talk about work family issues? How would you in your own way? Both of you both Larry and Harvey are in charge of major organizations in this country when somebody says to a work family issue. What does that really mean to you? Well to me it it means that the traditional approach which was that personal problems family problems stayed in the parking lot and never came into the workplace isn't realistic and that there really isn't a clear line between what we think of as family issues and we think of as work issues and corporations ignore that issue for a long time. Now, they recognize that family kinds of concerns things that occur outside the workplace directly impact what goes on inside the corporation has a direct impact on productivity and that again from my perspective and it certainly has been the experience of Control Data dealing with family issues is very directly related to our desire to compete more effectively. So you see it's not a Shoe per se really has bottom line consequences. Oh, I think there's no question about I think it was for a long time people ignored the impact of family issues in the corporation, but they come into the factory they come into the development floor all the time and issues at work go home and then get reinforced and change and come back into the into the workplace. So a number of the programs that we and other companies have developed are really properly seen as productivity tools. They recognize that the employee base has changed that the issues are changed that we're going to be effective. We need to deal with those issues and can't ignore them. Are we how do you feel about that? Well, it seems to me that people men women those with children those with our children have essentially two kinds of lives in which they're in which their existing one deals with what's happening at the workplace and the other is dealing with what's happening outside the workplace. And they have objectives that they would like to achieve in each one of those context and increasingly achieving and they want to achieve in both those contexts. And and what they have to do is make trade-offs about what is going to be able to be done and the the inherent process of making the trade-offs creates conflict. Now, I don't think that is a major as a major issue corporations really ignored it as much as there were the the way people think about those issues in the way. They make trade-offs has created a new imperative. And there are some external forces at work that I think will require companies that depend on the intellectual capital of their people to prosper to deal with we are going to go into a decade two decades craft of extraordinary labor shortage of the United States extraordinary labor shortage particularly among people that have any degree of education and at the same time we have new entrance into the workforce who are increasingly less well-educated that that Dynamic that external Dynamic if nothing else was happening. I think lots of else is happening Force us to deal with the issue about how to make productive use of every available member of our society. So it's not really a motherhood issue at all in that sense. Well, I think it is a mother hen issue in that I didn't motherhood important, but my mother would be extraordinarily. It's also exactly that's why I said Initially a motherhood and fatherhood issue, but it's not an issue that just can be given short shrift. It is not a soft tissue and then over profound issues and they have enormous consequences for our society and for our economy and we have to deal with them effectively. Now, that sounds very good. But you really believe that the people of this city or major people that you've met in various organizations feel as strong as both of you do this just a public statement or do you really genuinely believe that people will force then have the clout to do something about that. Well, I think that there's varying degrees of reaction and awareness and commitment to those kinds of issues people have different experiences in their businesses, but I think there is substantial support for specific kinds of programs. And I think you have to get specific that people are are starting to use it Control Data. We've adopted programs to give counseling. Example on a very Broad and non-restrictive basis to our employees on and their families on personal issues. We did that not because we thought it was a nice thing to do. It is a nice thing to do, but that wasn't why we did it we did it because we directly felt it affected productivity. We've done some studies which have established that employees who utilize that service and the referrals that come out of it in the drug abuse situation do better recover and become pretty remain productive members of the of the corporation in contrast with the similar group employees who didn't use the service so we know that it has dollar and cents in that specific instance tolerance impact that's positive for us. So I think there's a growing awareness of the of the relationship. It's hard to do it. It's one thing to get top management. To make the excited about well, it's the thing that's hard to do I think is to get the program's driven down into the organization. So they're run on a sustained basis to get first line supervisors in factories. For example to really deal with those issues in a real way on a on a day-in day-out basis that to me is a is the issue that we have to begin to deal with it's an interesting point because I spent 16 years is the psychiatrist at the Harvard Business School and many of these issues were not very critical to people until such time as they affected them personally and I've always made the Assumption quite honestly that everybody in this audience this afternoon including myself at one point or another has some major work family issues. I think people in the field historically have seen work family is related primarily to children, but we can't see it that way anymore. It has to be related to various phase of the lifecycle to young families to midlife families and older. One of the most prestigious Business Schools in this country requested their faculty to look at the most single important issue that they would like to have a faculty seminar and they chose treating and working with aged parents because the faculty themselves was struggling with the idea of sequestering enough funds and making their parents comfortable people. So the changing demographics is really altered the way we think about work family issues. You said you thought it may be more than just a women's issue. There's no question. It's more than a woman's issue. But what are some women issues that you see in work family and to change (00:15:57) the issues for women are probably are being experienced with more severity overall than they are by men. You know, I do think it's very important to point out though that those are be both are being highly impacted women women clearly are saying that they feel a major responsibility and doing a full-time home job as well. Full-time work job those women who are full-time employees and the the stress that comes in on them can be very severe partly because we as Society although we've done quite a bit of talk about how the old family doesn't exist anymore the Ozzie and Harriet many of us and many of our employees carry with us the idea that we should be as women like the concept of what a woman was in the in the old days. There's there's so many there are so many shifts that have taken place. I mean, we're aware a woman in the old days was staying home and cooking cooking the meals and everybody sit down at the same time and we're really tended to today you have more of a situation where children are pitching in and who's to say that that's not better versus worse than the old days but a conflict can exist in the psyche of a person who feels they should be able to deliver the old type service to the family. (00:17:19) You think the burden is great on women and men you buy that for March react quickly is the burden is disproportionately on on women. That doesn't mean it's zero on men. I hope but in in a lot of the surveys that we've seen within our own company in situations where there are are a man and a woman both working with or without children. In more cases than not the woman has ultimate responsibility for getting things done that don't involve the work if in our in our in our case, there are lots of examples where to professional people are working and if a child has to go to school or come out of school or meeting has to be missed more often than not it's the it's the woman who takes care of that and the husband that there's not it's not Universal but I think it's disproportionately would change would you think less of a guy if he said to you that he couldn't come in till eleven o'clock because his wife was working and he had a bring the child to school. How would you look upon that guy from a career ladder point of view? Well, it's unlikely that I'd be in a position where something is going to tell that to me people that suffer so I'm not so I'm not going to hear it every but but that that gets argue with a sharp guy you see he always has Wonderful Life. No, but that but that gets to Larry's Point top management. Our Senior Management can can have policies can have values that operate to certain way but the execution of those at the day-to-day level is not done by us. It's done by other people. I understand but you set the style and that was a neat way of getting out of it. And you do set a style and you do let people know exactly what your feelings are about certain matters. Let's let's Larry respond to that question suppose. You really had somebody who said, you know, I want to take some paternal leave my wife did it last time on our first child and I want to do it the second time on this child. I want to be away for six weeks. I know I'm I can do that by way of the law Etc. But how's that going to affect me in the organization? Well, I think we make we make an effort as would most companies to find a way to accommodate the issue. I think it comes up more frequently though in shorter term. Kinds of questions and I do think that the top management needs to model some of those questions on Wednesday my teenage daughter gave her speech at school at eight o'clock. We had a meeting scheduled for for 7:30. And I said I'd we move it tonight, but you have the power and the point that the point that the point that I was trying to make obviously in that case was that I want people to feel some flexibility to try to adjust situations the meeting could start without me I could get there you could do a note that you've got to find ways to adjust within the the little things that go on at the other one. Otherwise, you'll never you'll never deal with the with the larger issues of the you can't very well deal. For example with your question in the in the abstract if that individual whether it's a man or a woman is a criminal All development engineer and there's a key project. You've got to find ways to work around that but you got to create an atmosphere and environment in the corporation where it's okay to try to work around that issue to find ways to to cope with it where it's not a No-No to ask the question. Yeah. So the the extremes that will affect career it will factor is if I called my boss and said I need to take the next year off to take care of my mother who 75 he would find a new president for IDs. I couldn't I couldn't go out of the job for a year. If if I wanted to take last Wednesday off and spend the day with my son because I've been working too hard. I could do that. But you can't and critical jobs and Senior jobs. You can't have the same kind of flexibility that you do with interchangeable job about a middle manager who said I want to take the day off because my son's playing lacrosse on let's find he wouldn't ask anybody wouldn't have to ask anybody wouldn't it? But he loved his job the next day. Of course. Okay, of course say of course because in many corporations, I think that this is sort of really shaky grounds for a number of people they would like to do that but they're afraid to do that and I think that you're right. I think the burden I think are all right, the burden is more as much greater on the woman in many respects in terms of all of the multiple assignments. I saw me just ask one question though because I interests as I listen to this discussion. We've talked about top management. We've talked about middle management. Nobody talks about the assembly worker who after all has got kids giving assembly speeches and kids who play soccer May punch a Time Clock may work by the hour that to me is where we ultimately will will test whether or not we mean what we say, how would we do that? Well, I don't have all the answers but I think I think a lot of it has to do with cream with creating the kinds of sensitivity to these issues in the first line managers all through business the people who work in the factories, the civil district sales managers people like this and secondly providing some kind of receptacle some kind of a program for so that person can allow that flexibility. The the supervisor May well want to let the individual off to go watch it son play soccer, but there may be no mechanism which enables him or her to do that. And if you had for example personal days off policy where there was some some flexibility than that could be used but you need both you need the substantial amount of And work with those people and you need programs that can be used or you end up just frustrating them if you give them the training and the sensitivity but but no programs. Well, I think you're right on the money. And I think what you're talking about is what was originally said was seeing a progression just as we saw a self family and work is three separate entities. And now what you're talking about is sort of an overlapping of these three circles so that there's really a whole systems theory that one significantly affects the other we're also seeing I think a shift of issues from upper management to middle management and the lower management. There are certain lower management positions assembly line workers can never use the phone if they needed to use the phone. I've been in some plants in which people have difficult time going the bathroom for extended periods of time because there are now only subbed wage and they are inter dependent upon on the assembly line with other people and we take those things for granted. So I think you're right on the money when you say that (00:24:11) Can industry will (00:24:12) industry forget about these issues if the economic climate becomes more severe you talked about productivity, which is a relationship of multiple factors of technology and competition and good Management in efficient use of time. But if the climate gets worse, well this dye will have people say we're just if it dies and we're the only Financial Service Company to pursue the issues will end up with Monopoly was we will we will ultimately the competition is for getting the best people and if we have a competitive advantage in doing that we will get a monopoly see if I heard you say that I want to come to work for your company in a minute because I would say that I can't right now you publicly offering me a job, but I think that's a very proactive and very alive kind of statement because what you're seeing is the cast all you seeing the reality of the toe. Picture rather than a microcosm and I think that's really where companies are the Futures are going to go. I like that answer. What other issues do you think? What are the things have you companies done to be Innovative? I was sitting next to you at lunch luring you talk about Innovation and we always think of innovation in a technological sense. But clearly we're talking about it in a different way this afternoon. Well, I was at lunch talking about it from a technology perspective, but I think a number of the programs that control data has worked on the ER program that I talked about is one example, another program that I think is directly related to this is what we call stay well which is an attempt to develop an employee's to help them deal with Healthy Lifestyles to deal with issues of whether it's obesity or physical condition or things of that nature which recognizes that we can do a number of things in the workplace, which obviously have implications in both. The the work and family spheres. I think there are a lot of small examples again that I come back to safety programs. If you work hard to teach people to be careful when they lift things and warehouses. It also applies when they go home if people are learning how to use jumper cables practice safely to start the equipment in factories and warehouses that that relates to what goes on at home this if the micro level there are a number of things that that work and we try very hard to connect these programs. So that would go so that the programs we do in the at work have relationships to it goes on home. Can you think of any that that you've done in your organization that think that a proactive and on target with what we're talking (00:27:05) about? You know, I think probably typical too many of the small businesses as opposed to the large. Operations our efforts have been more a response to individual employees than large programs because of the difference in the numbers of people were working with we've done unusual things such as open stores in a another sit open a store in another city where we weren't already existing because an employee's husband got transferred to that City and came and said I want to work for you but button however at that's a long commute, you know several thousand miles and can you open a store or so we've done the we've done that twice actually (00:27:45) interesting do marketing analysis (00:27:51) that really comes really truly out of a selfish reason to because these were employees that we highly valued and being in a high service sales industry, the quality of service given to the customer is very affected by that manager. So we did it in a in order to enhance our marketing and our distribution system now. One of those cases where we did that the the employees husband decided to move back to the Twin Cities. He didn't like his job. So there are there are definitely disadvantages. They're definitely disadvantages of these approaches. Also being a smaller company we've developed a very intense men's mentoring system really which I think this research is especially coming out of the honey will study showed that the supervisors understanding and flexibility towards a person's needs was one of the great criterias that would reduce stress and in some cases simply even being listened to it can it can have a strong effect on an employee it our particular employees. It's not just a question of is that employee absent or is that put employee present? Because even if you go to the mass numbers of our employees our fashion consultants are going to work with a customer who walks in they have to start Sieving through asking questions what the fashion needs are what she's really looking for. They have to have the skill to pull it together and they have to help that person make a fairly major purchasing decision. All of which they can only do if their mind is there as well as their body, they truly have to be there in in tune therefore if they're stressed out and they had no chance even to brief them self. The quality of service is going to go down in the productivity will shoot down (00:29:39) dramatically. So what you saying, there's a lot of people who work eight hours a day on the job, but they're basically unemployed while they're really not and I think that's an important concept. I think that's what we're saying Harvey. Could you think of one thing that your company has done before we begin opening the questions to the floors? We've done all the easy stuff people in the field can transfer from one sales office to another we we've expanded maternity leave to be family leave. It can be for any purpose up to a year. We have all of the counseling programs we get Outsiders to do it. So there's no limitation. We make that available to supervisors as well to help them do a better job of counseling people at problem. We've gone through that whole list of stuff and we've done it and we haven't begun to break the problem and that's we haven't started. Yeah, it's great. I think we're going to open the questions from the floor now for our distinguished panel and we'd like as many questions tough ones as (00:30:40) possible. Well, I tell you what, very we are going to begin but as as was stated at the start of this this program, we have had that at Spring Hill Center for the last two days a group of both National and I must add homegrown experts on the issue of family and work and we've been peppering them with questions. So I'm going to first ask for a comment and then I have promised them that they get to ask the leadoff question, but I've got to ask all of you for this comment and maybe Brad I'll come to you are we listening here into a group of incredibly enlightened Executives or do they fit the norm and the pattern across the country? (00:31:20) I think we can tell by the Halos of light over their heads that they're obviously quite exceptional know I think unfortunately, I think this is a group of very enlightened Executives and I say that both from the point of view of if we look nationally at this issue. It's still is not an issue at the top at the top of the table as it were in terms of the agendas. So I think that although we've seen a tremendous amount of progress. I think it still is a maybe I can follow that up with a question one of the issues that keeps coming up because when we talk about work family is that family traditionally has been either IE in the family or that the government has been somewhat related and we really haven't talked about that. At least I haven't heard about is there a role for government in this issue and if so, how does it relate to corporate corporations? (00:32:14) You know, it's go ahead did you want to go it would certainly seem that the problem is so pervasive. We're really talking about a societal problem situation that Lifestyles have changed that there is a role for government to to facilitate for example in the childcare situations as more and more people are having babies and also working. I believe the statistics say that now about half the women who have young children are working. The problem is so extensive that a way for everybody to be served not just pockets of people to be served is probably is a government approach to to childcare. For example, I think that's one of the great Avenues where government could be truly (00:33:03) instrumental. Well, that's a broad question. I would just make a couple of couple of observations. I think marjorie's right there are clearly areas where there are serious reservations as whether it's appropriate for the corporation to get involved even though it may well be positive from productivity childcare. It starts to get at that line in terms of Corporations running facilities. You could move one step further and look at schools should corporations provide elementary schools for further employee. It gets that gets bothersome. So there's an area there where I think it's clearly government's got a traditional role in a major role and the other hand a lot of the programs that various companies are dealing with our programs that they've developed at to meet what they see as their needs. They've been Innovative in many cases. They've been experimental If we mandate too much of what has arisen as in response to real needs, I think we may lose a lot of the of the benefits and lose that kind of movement to really Embrace this as part of the way we do business in this country as opposed to a social program. So I think we have to be careful. (00:34:27) We're going to move on to another question. But by the way gentle person CEOs at least don't lose your Halos if that's what you have. Let's go ahead with a question. This is to be addressed to Harvey golub and Lawrence Perlman. And the question is or the issue is that it's my perception that men and I'll focus on them right now who are successful work many extra hours during evenings and our weekends. What do you see the impact on careers of men who do not work many extra hours in order to establish an egalitarian relationship in their marriage. In other words will those men be able to reach high levels of management Harvey we start with you. (00:35:15) I work have worked over the course of my my lifetime very very few weekends during the early part of my career when I was in fact building the building my career. I don't think I work half a dozen weekends from the egg from when I got out of college slates 35 if that much on occasion on rare occasions are doing some traveling today. I don't work weekends. Unless I'm traveling somewhere now. I do travel a lot and unfortunately some of that takes place on weekends, but I don't bring I don't bring work home on weekends unless it's an extraordinary circumstance. I do I have adjusted my my own timetable. I get to the office very early have a two and a half year old son, and I want to see him so I can leave early and I'm looking to see him anyway, and I'm normally home by about 6:00 or 6:30 the plenty of time to play with him. So in terms of my of my own work schedule, that's what it's been most of my career. You can make the Judgment as to whether that's successful not but that's what I've done. The short answer is that we'll just have the women work as hard as the men and then there'll be a egalitarianism but that's a that's that's flip. I think very I think I think very few companies assign work to people with the intention that it can't be done in the regular working period and that unit put people in a position where they have to work weekends, or they have to work evenings agree with Harvey that's travel is a separate and kind of problem people leaving on Sunday so they can be somewhere Monday Morning by and large people work weekends and they work nice because they want to work weekends and they work nights. They choose to do that. It's part of a broader family issue profound family issue, but I don't think it's fair to to lay the blame. Come on that one on on the on the corporations. I think this just one other point on that first of all, I think you're a hundred percent. Correct? I see many young executive when managerial women working much harder than in many ways than men. I think they'd run out workmen in many respects all sorts of indicators now show that they're smoking more drinking more traveling more doing all sorts of things which they used to be very critical of men that doing primarily because I think they're struggling very hard to make it and I think there is no cliche which does have value is that the most talented people work smarter rather than hardened necessarily and so it's not purely in the number of hours one works. It's an impossible question to ask a committed person. How many hours a week? Do you work any committed person whether it's a clergyman or a manager or any person like that can never Define the number of hours. They work per week. Only those people who are now Lee basis who get paid by the hour to find it much easier. So I think it's a question of involvement and commitment. We go back. I want I'd like to make one comment on the previous question about the role of government before the next question. I think the role of government ought to be as narrow and as limited as possible governments do not have the capacity to generate quality outputs in Social Services. They've never demonstrated that capacity to do that and I would much rather see a whole bunch of entrepreneurs who are competing in the marketplace for people operating is independent Laboratories coming up with ideas that will ultimately work through the economy and ultimately have a far better effect. If Government tries to get involved in that process, they will screw it up. Did you have the feeling that communities are not that organizations will not loan people and communities. My experience has been they've been very good in that in most (00:39:21) cases. I think that a lot of the large corporations in which there are is either a higher level high-level professional who has available discretionary time. Or in which there are interchangeable jobs that somebody else can be filling in when you're absent are tending to afford that time. I know for example Honeywell has sponsored this the smaller the company or the more tied down to an hourly wage. I have the feeling (00:39:57) there there. There are (00:39:59) problems. I don't know that though. I'd be interested to know. How should large corporations assist their employees as well as the community with childcare issues? Harvey (00:40:16) last Thursday, I flew back from New York and it was it was sort of toward the end of what was not a terrific week up to that point and and I spent most of their plane trip reading a hundred pages of comments that are our employees that given us as part of a family and and work survey and reading the comments were not laced with with terrific Pat's on the back. They were laced with lots of suggestions for what we might do differently. It was a depressing plane trip, the the issue of child care was raised probably as frequently as any other how to how to provide information how to provide sort of continuing child care how to deal with a sick child how to deal with a situation where the arrangements have changed in the short term and some transition is required. And sort of the ongoing ongoing maintenance lots of suggestions from put up put a Childcare Center in any ideas Tower which would not work at all because it would not be used people would think of use it but they wouldn't to build Child Care Centers all around the suburbs to move the company to the suburbs so that we can we can we can drive there the issues are pervasive. We have a task force now of about 20 employees who are going to come up with recommendations of precisely what we should do and I trust those people. I think they're gonna come up with good recommendations and we're going to do what they tell us. (00:42:00) Do the task force has ever talked (00:42:02) with you. Oh sure. There's in fact the group that we're part of and some others apart of his. Well, we're funding that's designed to provide information on family issues to people that seek it outside of our individual corporations, and there's half a dozen other firms that are working with us on that and and so there's a lot of conversation and at the professional level within the corporation is a huge amount of networking that goes on so our people know all the people in the other companies and they know all eyes and there they are talking all the time about the issues had to deal with the issues. What ideas some of his has had lots of that. I think we have to be very careful of something when Willie Sutton the famous bank. Robber was asked why he Rob's Banks his answer was that's where the money is and I think that one has to look very carefully at corporations. Also what talking about some enormously complicated complex issues. We're talking about raising children. We're talking about people can't read and write Right who come to companies we're talking about people who come from fragmented families with depression and sadness we're talking about marital breakup. So we're talking about poverty of people who come into companies and we have to be very clear that it's not the company's primary role is to socially educate all these people in many areas that we can't let the other institutions off the hook as well. The school's the churches the community resource activities and primarily people have jumped the companies primarily because they've assumed that's where the money is but in publicly owned companies and certainly even in certain non publicly owned companies. There's a responsibility to all sorts of people and I think it's a responsibility of all of us companies have a major responsibility, but not solely. The only one into those elements were cut which companies can deal with in those which are very difficult for them to deal with there's no more vexing issue and I agree with Harvey's in the childcare issue. And if you look at it in mess and say that well, the only the only answers for the companies to put daycare centers together and things of this nature you get into a lot of very difficult issues. But there are a lot of everyday kinds of questions the sick child for example, which is one of the more difficult problems that people have to cope with it any level in the company day in day out their companies can do something they can be flexible in terms of allowing a certain number of personal days off so that a mother or a father who has a child with chicken pox and has another kid at home. So, you know another child number two will get it and it's a you're in for two weeks each and right off the bat can can deal with that with that issue. So there are some very practical things that can be done by companies that are very desirable on the other hand. If you try to look at it just in terms of the of the massive issue you run into some serious kinds of questions. Practical things that we've done to try and put more power in the part of the people is to is to install what we've called a portfolio benefit plan. And essentially what we do is give people credits and and I are composite aren't our benefit program is very expensive I think is about 31 percent of total comp and we essentially give that money in the form of credits individuals and they can use that for any number of purposes depending on their own family circumstances. So in a sense, that's one way of taking big daddy out of the decision-making process and you make and you make people responsible, but you also give them some (00:45:37) resources. All right, we're going to move on to a couple more questions Sonia you have one over there. Yes, (00:45:43) the role of the government has been touched on a little bit and I'd like to pursue that most industrialized countries have policies that are generally viewed as being very supportive the family for example child allowance found parental leave and others other policies the United This is not done a great deal in that area. One of the perceptions is that the reason they haven't done a great deal is the continuing opposition from major employers. And I know that the issue of letting the marketplace take effect was was suggested. What do you think we should do if we should do anything in this whole area of developing family policies that can be more supportive of families. Well, I would just make one one observation on that that it is. I think a real concern that the u.s. Is the only industrialized company in the world that ties medical care which after all goes to the very heart of family issues to employment and in particular we recognize we've talked for the last 45 minutes about how family issues are are Central to what goes on in the company yet most corporate medical plans do not provide coverage at all or provide very limited coverage for family systems kinds of family systems kinds of questions marital counseling family counseling things of that nature that to me is an area where which we have to address it probably is an area that we're Government Can can play a role in setting and setting some standards and helping in helping to deal with that issue. So there I think there's I want to pick one just one piece of the question for for the moment where I think we need to make a change. I think there's a real gap between the needs that arise out of family systems kinds of issues and the ability of companies with their various kinds of medical plans to provide it with I'll let Harvey deal with the with all the other issues now of mandated time off and things like them. Well, actually we the I think the assumption is wrong. We do have direct family grants from the federal government to individuals. We do it in different forms than some other countries. But the last time that I saw tax return there was a deduction for the number of dependents if that's not a subsidy for Fort number of people in family. I don't know what a subsidy means and I think there are lots of others in terms of welfare programs in the like they're based on size of families as well. So we may do it in a different way. Then other countries but I think there is a great deal of support economic support and family issues. (00:48:33) We're going to try and sneak in a few more questions there. So I'm going to cut you off. Excuse me, but let's go ahead (00:48:38) you talked about the importance of the first line supervisor and the difficulty that person often has how can you motivate those first-line supervisors to better accommodate family issues among their employees? I don't think you can motivate them to do that. I think what you have to do is to change behavior. And in a sense what people believe doesn't matter what only matters is how they behave how they deal with a particular situation. So I think one thing to do is to train people trained supervisors and how to deal with issues of all kinds with with their employees that will enable them to be better supervisor. If that behavior then yields results in terms of their job and in terms of their evaluations performance raises the like that behavior will be celebrated rewarded and replicated. I think that's the thing to do rather than trying to sort of appeal to the people's high moral standards or something else than the robot stuff doesn't last too long. (00:49:46) The linkage between (00:49:47) productivity and dealing with family issues is something which we have not yet made clear enough and when we do that and I agree with the with her visa response people will learn to deal with the issues and you've got to give them training. You've got to give them the tools the programs and and they'll make it happen. If it's just a program driven from the top of some Corporation. It isn't going to work. (00:50:14) All right. Let's go ahead with another question. The corporations continue to view children primarily as appendages of their current employees rather than as a resource pool of future employees and citizens and this seems to be most apparent in the lack of impetus from corporations to address some of the basic problems in childcare and education and I'm wondering if you can offer some suggestions as to how we can help corporations to understand their stake in the nation's children and how we can get them to bring about need to (00:50:48) change. The premise of your statement is fundamentally wrong in the state of Minnesota. For example, the Minnesota Business Partnership, which is a group that has as its members to CEOs of the 60 or so largest corporations is country in this in a state-sponsored a major study of how to improve the quality of of K through 12 education throughout the state was at was a major intellectual contribution. The to the debate corporations in this city and around the country are doing major amount of funding honeywell's taking the lead here in preschool age preschool education and development. So I think the premise is wrong now we should do we could and should do more perhaps but I think we've done a lot. (00:51:42) All right, we have another question here. Parental leave has been mentioned several times to believe. Mr. Golub said that IDs does use that but legislation to mandate parental leave has run into very strong resistance primarily. It seems on the basis of it being too expensive. Have you found it to be too expensive variety s or is it cost (00:52:04) effective? I don't know whether it's been cost effective or not and I won't spend the time to try and figure it out. We have we have people that have needs that from time to time will require them to take time off could be to have a child or an adoption or or teenager. That's the problem or older people are any other they can take a year off without pay and then we will do a lot to help bring them back into the corporation and roughly their same job. It's easier for us to do that because we're growing so fast. So there are always lots of jobs if we weren't growing that would be a major problem for us major problem (00:52:41) Marjorie Marjorie Williams who you are in the retail industry. I assume you have both full time, but also part-time employees. What do you find is the major obstacle to providing what for you would be the ideal work family environment for your employees major obstacle. The major obstacle is the requirement of the job itself. I was struck when when we were at the questions were being asked about people in advancing in their careers and working long hours with the fact that there's as a company owner. There's no one who's going to take my job away from me. If I don't work more hours and yet the job in many instances really requires that those hours be put in in order to meet needs such as we're talking about many most of my extra hours are because a personal realities and issues that are arising that's where most of my overtime goes into. So I would say that the same thing is the case for a manager of one of our stores for example, if an inch since we have many dispersed sites if in there We don't have a lot of extra employees covering each particular site. If someone doesn't come in because for example their child is sick that manager or another employee is going to have to arrive at the site or are rolling gate will be down and that really that really is something we can't let happened. So the realities of the job the really needs for the job to be served in a high service industry such as such as the niche of retail that we're in itself becomes a greatest difficulty very Perlman. Let me ask you a question because we are beginning to wind down now it has been conceded I think by both research and perhaps by your colleagues up there that men still do not bear the majority of the responsibility of Family Care. Do you see a role for corporations and for you as a male executive to be a role model in to set a tone within your corporation that encourages that men take on a far greater share of family responsibilities and duties Well, I think that the (00:54:48) realities are that changing family patterns are bringing men much more into contact with day in and day out issues of other children of Aging parents and things of that nature and the it isn't well certainly the role model issue for corporations. And for executives in corporations is relevant and and desirable again, it is really an issue of being responsive to what's going on corporations over time. If they want to be competitive want to get the best people need to address those changing kinds of patterns and the the recognition that males want to take a greater interest in the raising of their children for example is something that that that companies are going to be successful need to adapt to (00:55:38) Finally is Bill George begins to return to the podium to close out this hour. Dr. Barry greif. Let me ask you a final question for which I would like a brief answer. But of course, it's not an easy question. What do you think the workforce is going to look like 15 to 20 years from now and what implications will that have for what we're talking about today? (00:55:59) I think 15 20 years from now the workforce going to compose clearly of men and women both in major managerial positions. I think we will see still struggle with work family issues because we're entering one of the great experiment will periods in the history of this country in which women primarily have gone back to work in high positions other than just working themselves. I think we'll see an enormous number of increase in cottage industries of people establishing their own businesses. I think you'll see more entrepreneurs if we survive the next couple of weeks in the market and so forth and I think that work will continue to be a dominant issue for the rest of all of our lives and family will connect always If those (00:56:38) issues very much Bill George back (00:56:40) to closing. I'd like to thank our distinguished panel, very grave Marjorie Williams, Larry Perlman and Harvey Golem for most provocative discussion, and some very thoughtful answers to the questions that were raised from the audience on behalf of the Minnesota meeting. I'd like to prevent present to each of you this Minnesota meaning peace pipe, which was created by Minnesota artist Robert Rose bear. This peace pipe is symbolic of the human bonds, which we must maintain in order to live peacefully together want to thank all of you for coming to Minnesota meeting today and for participating and for your thoughtful questions as well. Please plan to join us on November 4, when dr. Glen Oriole speak to the Minnesota meeting. Thank you for coming. (00:57:28) Our live broadcasts of Minnesota meeting are made possible by the Twin Cities based law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and Donnelly the title of this Minnesota meeting topic changing family's changing corporations. What's the bottom line? And we heard from three Minnesota chief executive officers Harvey golub president and CEO of IDs Financial Services Marjorie Williams, the CEO of she Incorporated and Lawrence Perlman Executive Vice President of Control Data Corporation and president of the data storage products group. The session was moderated by dr. Barry greif a consultant to Harvard University Health Services.