(00:00:00) And the time now is 12 o'clock that afternoon Danielson in the Twin Cities. Midday continues until one o'clock and we Welcome to our studio Catherine Jordan. And dr. Scott Strickland, who are the two guests for the hour to talk with us about AIDS Awareness Month October is AIDS awareness month. Not only in Minnesota. I presume but across the country it would seem I think too many of us that every month has been AIDS awareness month since about nineteen eighty-three. Really when I suppose some of the first news accounts started breaking since 1981 for a lot of Professionals in the field since the Hastings Institute issued one of its first reports on the AIDS epidemic That Was Then predicted AIDS is October is AIDS prevention month complete with a Mini Apple complete with a Minnesota telephone number complete with a media package complete with an educational program directed at high schoolers will be getting to some of those items will also invite you to call in with questions for our guests because the two of them come from Why different backgrounds? Dr. Scott Strickland is a physician in private practice in Minneapolis and his practice includes AIDS patients Catherine. Jordan is person who I've been describing as a public health worker, but with an extensive video background and has produced a video aimed at a high school population in Minnesota. Dr. Strickland welcome and I guess the question that we need to know something about is many of us have the impression. I think that most AIDS patients so far are not teenagers. Are you seeing an increasing number of young people with AIDS? (00:01:34) Well, the the answer to that exact question is no but that belies the underlying problem and that is that people are exposed to the AIDS virus. Sometimes many years before they actually develop AIDS one of the big problems. We've dealt with all long and that is that that's only a small tip of the whole Iceberg the port more important question is are there seeing more people infected with the AIDS virus and the answer that question is yes. The numbers are not not huge by any means but considering that a year or two ago there were virtually none. And now that I take care of number of infected patients who at this time, we're still well, but would anticipate as the years passed that will be seeing those people then developing AIDS and as it is, (00:02:12) all right, Catherine Jordan does Minnesota have a state-mandated AIDs education program that high schools should or must show their students (00:02:22) at this point. Minnesota does not have that kind of a state-mandated educational program. We're hoping of course that every District in every school will create their own educational program will have their own. Media products will have access for teachers and students and parents to really learn about this disease and how to prevent it which is very easy to do (00:02:43) one of your projects has been the video that has been produced very briefly. What is that (00:02:46) about? Well, we have a video that we just released two weeks ago called all of us and AIDS which really aims at Young people's choices around their sexuality they need to as they are focusing or facing a variety of different kinds of options in their lives. They need to be really well informed and know what they can do to prevent this disease and other diseases and unwanted pregnancy as well as support for postponing or saying no to sexual activity when they're not ready. (00:03:18) Dr. Strickland. Where do you see AIDS education as playing an important role in prevention of the spread of the disease. (00:03:25) Well, I see it as being sort of a multifactorial sort of approach and we need to start with very young children. Basically discussing not not, you know, not sexual behavior in quite such in that sort of sense. But more education about AIDS responsible behavior in the context of sexuality and other things at earlier ages and then as time moved our grow on that information up to the point, where in at whatever point it's appropriate which appears to be probably in junior high is in high schools talking more exclusive explicitly about sexual behavior in ways of protecting oneself. (00:03:57) It's about four minutes after 12 o'clock. We're talking with our guests Catherine Jordan and dr. Scott Strickland, and we'll give out the telephone numbers now that you can call if you have a question for our guest in the Twin Cities 2276 thousand 2276 thousand outside the Twin Cities with in Minnesota. There's no charge for this toll free call 1-800 6-5 to 9701 865 297 Ingrid and from surrounding states, of course, you're welcome to call us. Our area code is 6122276 thousand. Well Catherine I can imagine that the task you face as a public health worker is to convince schools that they should show this video talking about an extremely controversial topic. What's been the what's been the review so far. What's been your (00:04:46) reception? Well, it is a challenge. You're right. We've just had two weeks now experience of showing it to a number of young people and professionals both Educators and health professionals. And I think overwhelmingly they're very excited about the tape. We did walk a fine line with the script in terms of trying to be very factual and accurate and I think somewhat controversial in the subject matter as well as balancing a variety of different value systems. It's important for young people to know about condom use and a lot of parents I think are very nervous and concerned about being about educating young people. Around specific sexual issues. Our feelings are and it's substantiated with lots of different research and material that young people are sexually active. In fact the Adolescent Health survey that was just completed by Michael Resnick and Bob Blum over at the University of Minnesota where the interview 3700 teenagers in the state of Minnesota found that the average age of first intercourse in the metropolitan area, which includes Minneapolis. St. Paul Duluth is thirteen point four years old four men voice young boys and fourteen point six four young girls in Greater Minnesota. It's about 14 years for boys and 14 years for girls. So we know that young people are being sexually active and we need to get them good information. (00:06:10) Dr. Strickland, I imagine that it is AIDS hysteria as much as anything that the AIDS education effort needs to be aimed at. (00:06:19) Absolutely what we found a lot of times what I found so I'm doing education for high schools for teachers for educators for kids is it it's well received by students as well received by the Educators. Well received by administrators, but it's the parents who Express anxiety and are on her hysterical or at least very anxious about it. And so that part of our educating of kids is are educating of parents too and they have to be part of being educated themselves understand what we're going to be saying and allow them to put into to feed into to what it is that's going to be doing to be (00:06:51) done. Well, we have a few questions on the line from listeners who will get to the first one right now. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question raised that you have your guests on board today and as a health professional I had become aware of the Burnsville school program, and I wonder Either might comment on that. It's my conclusion that premarital testing certainly wouldn't be a very good utilization of the limited resources. Now with the information that more than a year can go by before detection on the available blood test that enters in as a new dimension and I'm wondering what is effective when it comes to circumventing the taboo against mention of condom since they seem to be one of the economical effective preventative. Dr. Strickland. (00:07:52) Well, the those number of questions they're obviously the I do I certainly agree about the issue of premarital testing. There's all sorts of evidence from other sexually transmitted diseases and and our research in this area would indicate that that would not be an effective use of resources. There was an a piece of information in the Press over the weekend that indicated that there was a fairly long period of time between the time a person is exposed to the AIDS virus in the time that they become positive that is something that has been a concern to us all along the the actual details of that particular study need to be looked at fairly carefully and there are some confusing issues. They're still the vast majority of the people become positive to the AIDS virus or blood test becomes positive in a six week to three month period in that those cases probably represent something more of an exception the issue about condom. Use of course is is very very controversial and I'll just put my piece into that and then and then and then transfer it over. I think that we always need to be very careful that we don't just sort of throw condom use out as The cure for AIDS Rd prevention phrase it's obviously a piece of the total picture included included in that picture is discussions of responsible sexual behavior abstinence monogamy within a non-infected relationship and a variety of things in addition to pointing out that condoms while they are very effective protectors protection against the AIDS virus are by no means 100% right? You also had a question about getting more information on broadcast media about condoms and I to my knowledge the FCC Has Lifted their ruling that prohibit prohibited any kind of condom advertising. So it's now up to the Network's to make their own decisions about how condoms would be portrayed. I think that we as the public can influence and inform our broadcast stations in our networks to say that we want that kind of information on television in an accessible way as dr. Strickland has said it's not a hundred percent effective, but it's it's the best form of Your protect protection that we have at the moment when condoms are used effectively and use with spermicide to fight this disease for people who are being sexually active. So I think that just morally and ethically and every other way. We need to be having a much more large broadcast of that kind of information for the public (00:10:12) their colors with questions will get to the next one right now. Hello, we're listening for yours. Good afternoon. Try enjoy your program very much. Now they may have may have discussed this question already. But what does the term aids mean? What is causes it and the treatment for it and all hang up and listen. Thank you good basic information. (00:10:30) That's right. That's right. Well and one of which I could probably spend the next hour talking about AIDS is obviously stands for the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. It's caused by a virus about which we have a good deal of information. We know well how it spread from person to person we know even more importantly how it's not spread from person to person enters the Body and causes damage to certain parts of the body's immune system leading leaving people susceptible to certain types of infections and certain types of cancers. There's a lot of catch words in all of that. There's certain parts of the immune system that's damaged not all of it. There are certain types of infections that these people develop and that there are lots of people infected with the AIDS virus also who do not necessarily develop AIDS. There's people who develop our related disease we refer to as Arc the aids-related complex and a lot of people who maintain infection with the virus in their body, but otherwise remain well with mild degrees of (00:11:26) infection and apparently outside of sexual contact AIDS is not all that transmittable at all. (00:11:32) That's a interestingly even within sexual contact. It's can apparently can be difficult to transmit the AIDS virus, but blood and semen are the two primary means of transmission. So there are so sexual transmission is a concern or those situations were blood May somehow be entered directly into the (00:11:49) body and we know that dr. Strickland attended that conference. A few weeks ago now in Washington DC one of the international conferences. This is the most recent one. I presume were a lot of this information was brought out but I jumped in where Catherine Jordan was just about ready to say (00:12:02) something. I wanted to also add that Sharon Needles is another very important high-risk behavior that we all can control it. Maybe if a person is engaging in IV drug use often times. The needles are shared in that experience and blood from one person who may be infected is mixed with the drug and then passed on to another person. That's a very high-risk situation and anyone engaging in that should certainly never share a needle with someone else. Also we have to be concerned about other kinds of needle sharing and maybe tattooing it may be ear piercing or blood or brother-sister blood packs that kind of thing what we want to make sure again is that people do not share the needles in those incidences it probably is worth least emphasizing that it is the blood in the needles. There's some there's some concern once in a while that it's just simply the tip of the needle or the Cutter that are the unsanitary situations and it is the blood that is drawn back into the needle and inject it into another person (00:12:58) in these seem like very simple straightforward points to me and you have made clear that at least at the moment AIDS patients in Minnesota. Do not number certainly anything close to the number of folks who have other forms of disease, but clearly the point is that a lot of folks still don't understand how AIDS is transmitted. That's right or aren't listening. That's right. (00:13:20) There's there's a real lack of very very basic information just things as simple as the AIDS virus and how it behaves and why it is that it is not on door handles and how it is that we know that and that we're not concealing other information about the virus that indicates that that type of thing may occur, but those very type of basic pieces of information what we need to get out to people and I think we have to get it out to people over and over and over again, I think because this disease hits our sexuality and it's a very loaded moral issue as well and many levels the people are very Fearful, and we need to repeat and repeat and repeat the straightforward information that aids is really hard to get and that all of us can take responsibility for our own behaviors and protect ourselves is this is not something that you're going to pick up in a restaurant or in an elevator or walking down the street. You can feel free to hug people and and shake hands and all that kind of thing. That's not what we're looking at is risk behavior. (00:14:18) We're talking with Katherine Jordan and dr. Scott Strickland in the studio inviting your questions will get to the next telephone caller in just a moment, but we'll give out the Twin Cities telephone number. Also. Our toll-free line is open in the Twin Cities 2276 thousand 2276 thousand listeners outside the Twin Cities with in Minnesota can call for free at 1-800-695-1418. 697 hundred years the next question. Hello. We're listening. Yeah, I don't want to minimize the importance of the educational. Programs are going on but it seems that many of our values that affect our behaviors are determined by our cultural setting and I'd like them to come at comment on the effects of TV. I know that they've spent something like three hundred thousand dollars for a 30-second spot for advertising and some of their more popular shows and then when our programming often contains lead actors who become well-known and popular who regularly are sexually active from week to week. It seems to me that there are many other teaching things going on the cont counteract the stuff that we would be doing in the schools or churches or other public places. All right Katherine you care to react to them (00:15:36) about I really agree with that and I think that we again the public needs to make our feelings known to the networks and other broadcasts agencies that we want to have effective accurate models on. Television shows I mean what happens on Miami Vice is so much more loaded or important or a visible then what I can do in a classroom and 52 minutes in Burnsville High School. I mean, it's just it's so out of whack. So what we have to do is I think and I think we can look to England. I just read in the day's paper that there's a new piece that's been released called. I think intimate contact very powerful to our drama on person who has gotten AIDS from prostitute. It's a heterosexual couple and looking at the ins and outs of that kind of situation in their lives. We've had early Frost was the only dramatic presentation but I think that we need to start looking at having the Soaps and the my the other kinds of media. We've this these models into their programming. I was I just want to sort of echo all of that basically seems like what we need to do is we need to enroll the people that are the are the most effective teachers many times the people we've already talked into doing education being part of the educational programs that we were involved (00:16:58) with. All right. We'll go back to the telephone for another question. How low we're listening for yours? Hi. I have a quick question regarding the the test the AIDS test if someone's been tested twice and has had an Elisa reaction, but both times Western blot has been- not indeterminate but but- Is there anything to be concerned about with a positive Eliza result though? The follow-up Western blot was (00:17:22) negative. Okay, that's that's a situation that comes up fairly regular interest to have to let anyone know who's unaware anytime that we do AIDS antibody testing the AIDS test it's done by a two-step process as an added level of insurance that we information we're giving to people is accurate. So the initial or so called Elisa test is performed, which is a very sensitive test that will Certainly pick up things in the system, which are not related to the AIDS virus is done. And then a confirming test is done showed that first test to be positive. The reason for the second test is because the occasion as I said the Eliza test being so sensitive will pick up things that are not necessarily AIDS antibodies. So if you have had repeated Eliza tests that are positive but have been repeatedly negative by Western blot. I think that by and large you can be you can be assured. You've not been exposed to the virus. Now, we would need to get into some nuances of some of one's sexual background and some other things perhaps but by and large the answer the question is that you could be reassured that you've not been exposed to the virus (00:18:23) other callers with questions and we'll get to the next one. Hello. We're listening for yours. Yes. I want to know what age do you think children should start being educated about AIDS some Educators? I've heard say that education should begin should not begin until a child is in junior high. I think that's way too late. And I think they should be maybe in third or fourth grade. (00:18:44) I'd like to really I agree with you on that. I think young people because they're in the world with all of us are hearing about AIDS all the time. And we need to help reduce their unwarranted fears about if a five-year-old is heard about AIDS as a and is afraid that they might get it. We need to give them specific information that just help them understand that aids is something that you get through a couple of processes like sharing blood or sexual activity and that they can have information that's appropriate to their understanding even as early as four or five. I think again through grade school that there are other kinds of information that can help young people understand the disease and understand that they can be compassionate and caring of people who have the disease as you know, we may be there may be ten to twelve young people in the Minnesota school systems this year who are antibody positive and they are not a risk to other children in those schools, but we need to help young people understand that. People happen to have an illness but they are not of risk to the other children. So I think it's important that we look at a staging of Education throughout a Young Person's whole educational career and that there are different kinds of information appropriate for different age groups. (00:20:01) All right, we have other callers with questions and we'll take the next one. Hello. We're listening for your question. Oh, yeah. Yeah can AIDS be transmitted by saliva alone as in kissing (00:20:11) saliva husband has been found in some situations to have small amounts of the AIDS virus in it attempts to transmit the disease via saliva have been so unsuccessful and there's no evidence to indicate that the vital that the virus is transmissible. That way the I can go through reams of information that talk about this, but basically it's not the situation where there is concern. Could it remotely ever happen in some and no bizarre situation. I suppose it probably could but by and large saliva carry, so little of the virus in such a low transmissible fashion that Is not an issue of (00:20:46) concern. All right other callers with questions. We'll go back to the telephone right now. Hello, we're listening for you. Yes. I have a couple questions your guests did mention that they had a video that they had been trying out and I wondered if they could tell us three things the name of the video and second if it can be made available to parents teachers or students and also if your guests are themselves available any place ins resource Source people for information for parents students and teachers good question. I'm glad you called with it. Let's let's put everything else on hold for just a minute or two as we allow Catherine Jordan to give out some of that information and then turn it over to dr. Strickland for some what's the name of the video. The (00:21:25) name of the video is called all of us and AIDS. We are having a public preview which is free to the public on October 22nd at 3:30 p.m. In the main Auditorium of the downtown Minneapolis Public Library, which is at third and Hennepin. Please inform anyone who might be interested in viewing it young people parents teachers. Are welcome to come to that preview on October 22nd at 3:30 p.m. We will be renting and selling the videotape. I can go ahead and give you my post office box is PO Box 3 to 6 to Minneapolis 55403 and you can just drop your name and address and phone number if you're interested in either previewing or buying the (00:22:11) video Let's back up here for just a moment. So that's Catherine Jordan Catherine with a c and then Jo RDA and Catherine Jordan whose title is executive director of pure Education Health Resources at map the Minnesota AIDS project. I think you could get it to Catherine Jordan just at that post office box number at the Minnesota AIDS project that is post office box three to six to Minneapolis. And the zip is 55403. Did you say right? (00:22:36) And I just want to clarify that map is another organization, which I also work at but it is not who produced this video tape its peer Education Health. Versus the produced the videotape and that's our box number that I gave you. (00:22:49) All right. So we'll clear the clear up any confusion at the end of the broadcast with that information. Once again, including names and things we know for a fact that both of you are available. In fact, dr. Strickland was most recently or fairly recently in (00:23:03) Decorah. That's that's right. I at this time of year. I give an average of about probably three to five talks per week September October November or very very sort of busy times and for educating nurses educating people in public educating people in the workplace. I just came here from talk in Northern Twin Cities 202 a group of personnel people from a large corporation here in town. And certainly I'm available. I think I should also say though that the one of the best places to contact initially is the Minnesota AIDS project the numbers that we have already given out here and there's the best initial contact. They have a large number of people with various backgrounds who can give you the but you need specifically (00:23:40) what about other cities in Minnesota Catherine where people can go for information if they're not in the Twin Cities. Any information on that? (00:23:46) Yes, I gave you a toll free number which is are it's one eight hundred two four eight a IDs and that's a greater Minnesota phone number for information. The Metro number is 87007004 the AIDS hotline here in the metro area again libraries are excellent place to get information as well as the Minnesota AIDS project. We have a speaker's Bureau that's open for any kind of group. We also have a youth education program with Chris McTavish and we also have hired 10 youth Educators who are available to go out to school groups churches ptas, whatever. It's a very active group of people were going out every day of the week and please contact us if you just want to get a speaker. You can call eight seven zero 77734 contact with a speaker or with a youth educator and the other number again is for information. It's 700700 in the metro (00:24:48) area. And then that toll-free number who will answer when folks call the toll-free number (00:24:52) toll-free number and the AIDS hotline are staffed by volunteers who are very well educated in all aspects of the AIDS virus and the disease and can help answer any kind of question from transmission issues to actual contact with the disease. (00:25:09) And here's that toll-free number for those of you in Greater Minnesota. 1-800 to for eight AI DS is the toll-free number. Well, thanks for bearing with us. All of you who are on the line with questions, and I think we'll get right back to that now and then just before the end of the broadcast will give out some more of the names and addresses and phone numbers that we just passed over so you'll have a chance to get it back to the telephone and we're listening for your question. Hello. Yes. Go ahead, please. I didn't know I was on there is a new field of employment in this telecommunications and the turnover is just terrific. There's four shifts in it and a great amount of people your I'm sure you're aware of that and I know there's nothing being done on the phones to make an antiseptic people do coffin to them and they do breathe deeply into them and sometimes you know, some do have a little saliva or whatever but I was just wondering if there and they do like I say cough into the phone's is there anything there possibly (00:26:12) the as we alluded to earlier the saliva carries very small amounts of any of the AIDS virus, but your added level of protection also in that case would be that in order for the AIDS virus to be transmitted. It would have to be living on this cold hard inanimate surface where the AIDS virus doesn't live so you would not have any reason for concerned about Contracting AIDS Hours from that Source whatsoever. Now if you are some some way coming in contact with that surface, you are certainly putting yourself at risk for Contracting another number of viruses that have nothing to do with AIDS cold flu viruses and others but and which is often the a good a good way to focus ones concerned about AIDS, but you will not be getting AIDS from that sort of a contact. I think the back that up that we have to remember that the AIDS virus lives in the blood system or in semen or vaginal fluids and it cannot live outside of the human body on any kind of surface. So again, that's one easy way to worry or not to worry about what issues you might have to be concerned about as long as it's out on the in the air in the water. It is not of risk to (00:27:16) us other colors with questions. We'll take the next one. Hello. We're listening for yours. Hello. Yes, go ahead. I read an article in the New Yorker. I believe it was in the September or August issue, which is very interesting in that they discussed AIDS and vectors and the research that the CDC has been doing initially. They denied that they were interested in this and modes of transmission. And now they have been doing a lot more research in this area in the article that I read initially. They said that the obvious modes of transmission list AIDS has been the sexual transmission and that in the history of epidemics as the epidemic the time goes on that the transmission the modes of transmission changes and becomes more obvious and other vectors and other areas of transmission and I I was very interested in that and that I feel you know, it's very Important that we don't get too hyped up and we kind of been downplaying our fears and at the same time, I think we have to be very realistic about what's happening with the epidemic and I was wondering if they had read this article or what ideas they have our opinions on it. (00:28:41) I have read the article and in detail many times in many parts of it have been quoted to me on numerous occasions. Since it first came out. I want to I do want to re-emphasize what you said at the end and that is that we by no means want to downplay important parts of this epidemic, especially for those of us that are doing education. The most important thing to us is our credibility and what we say now we're going to be held accountable for 10 years 15 years from now just as we're now being held accountable for what we said five years ago, and I'm pleased to say that I am totally accountable for on can say with you know, considerable Pride that what we said five years ago has been exactly the truth up to this point the issue about mosquitoes from that particular article and other vectors other arthropods vectors other animal vectors is Very interesting. First of all most that you have to look at who writes those sort of Articles and the article was not necessarily written by anyone. It was not written by anyone who has who has great knowledge in this area the information that she was quoting was largely from sources, which are in were incredible to say the very least. There's an organization in Florida who set themselves up as being experts on AIDS transmission who literally have a small file drawer in their bedroom and from that they Trent they transmit tremendous information, even though they're not experts in there at all the CDC which is a group that's often quoted certainly is interested in the issue of animals and the AIDS virus, but what the information has shown repeatedly continuously over and over again is that there is no way that the AIDS virus can be transmitted in that fashion. And the reason that the research is being done is to determine more why it is not and that is because it may give us good information about how to control the epidemic and control the AIDS virus. (00:30:13) I think one of the issues raised in one of the articles I saw was a community and in northeastern, Florida, and I forgotten since the name of the tablet. Thank you. Had a rather High incidence of AIDS cases of apparently a large mosquito population as it turns out not surprisingly to in (00:30:28) Florida. That's right. But but just because you've got lots of mosquitoes and you've got lots of AIDS. It doesn't necessarily mean the mosquitoes cause AIDS and actually there was tremendous information. That's come now from Belle Glade and what they found is that in that population. There is also a good deal of sexual activity. There's intravenous drug abuse there also were a large number of Haitians Haitians are not more at risk than anyone else for the AIDS virus but a large number of patients are infected with the AIDS virus because apparently the epidemic was on that island prior to the time that it came the United States the virus in in that Community was traced in every case to situations, which we know are putting individuals at risk in the mosquitoes had nothing to do with the epidemic. (00:31:08) All right, we have other colors with questions will get to the next one right now. Hello. We're listening for yours. Yeah, if you've had the AIDS test and it's come up negative. Is there any reason to be retested for that? Or go back and have that test (00:31:23) again the of the antibody test becomes positive approximately six weeks to three months after your exposed. So if you're negative and you had some sort of contact that puts you at risk less than three months ago. You may want to consider being tested in same situation. If you're continuing to engage in high-risk activity sexual behavior that may put you at risk then you may want to consider being tested periodically, but I think we should back that up by saying that if our Point here today is to educate people to engage in that behavior is what we need to stop doing and the aides antibody test is is nothing more than a hand waving if you will and has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the spread of the epidemic and just getting yourself tested from time to time so you can pat yourself and back on sound negative is fine until that time. You come out positive. I like to follow up on that. I think that really what we're talking about here is some some serious Behavior changes and some attitude changes. I think a lot of people think that they're just not at risk and I think because this disease start out in the gay community That we had an easy handle if we were not homosexual to say well that's not going to affect me and teenagers and I think most of us adults have this kind of magic thinking that well, this is never going to hit me. It's going to hit somebody else. It's going to be down the block or it's going to be in the paper. It's going to be in another state and though we don't want to use scare techniques. I think we do want to really encourage people to examine their behavior and start looking at what they can do and there are some very easy things to do to avoid contact with this virus and that means abstaining from unprotected sexual intercourse or if you're going to have intercourse to make sure you're protected either by having what is very safe kinds of sexual contact which means not penetration but having other ways of pleasuring each other that can be very enjoyable and very easy and accessible if you're going to have penetration either anally or orally or vaginally that you must use a barrier protection which are Use condoms and we encourage spermicide use as (00:33:24) well. All right, we're about halfway through our conversation with Kathryn Jordan who serves a variety of jobs executive director of pure Education Health Resources executive producer of the educational video tape, all of us and AIDS and who is cooperating with the Minnesota AIDS project on educational programming. Dr. Scott Strickland who is in private practice in Minneapolis who serves AIDS patients and I think you work out of Park Nicollet. It's right Medical Center. There is a (00:33:51) train and also Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis. (00:33:53) All right, and we have more colors on the telephone will get to the next one. Although we're listening. You have a question if you're healthy and you're doing everything you can stay healthy anyway, and since there's no cure for this thing yet. Would you recommend getting (00:34:07) tested? That's that's that's a that is a big question and it would need more details about one's about your background. Obviously, it'd be you know to before I answer that question if you have not engaged in high-risk activity IE sexual contact with the person whom you know is not who you know is not infected. If you have not been intravenous drug abuser then and also if you have not had been in situation where you may be at risk from a blood transfusion prior to the time that we started doing testing which was in May of 1985. Then there may be some reasons for you to be tested if you indeed are healthy. If you have not gauged any sort of activity that puts you at risk testing is irrelevant. (00:34:49) All right other questions. We'll take the next one right now. Hello. We're listening for you. Hi. I was wondering is there any research being done for persons who have not already been affected with AIDS to have some kind of serum or shatter pillar cetera to enable and not to get AIDS but to have to get the our virus instead because we know Earth doesn't kill that aids does (00:35:15) okay. Let me let me clarify one thing for you the AIDS virus causes AIDS and the AIDS virus causes Arc HIV both good causes both of them and they're not in any way different. It just seems to be a different response within the person it may very well be that a lot of people with Arc will go on to develop AIDS and so one is not necessarily have entirely a different disease. Although there are some people with our coo who apparently will not go on to develop AIDS. It does not then does not protect you your question about inoculation or vaccinations to protect you against the AIDS virus is excellent and I would like to be the one that discovered that because that would take care of my needs to work the rest of my life because that's precisely what's being looked at. Now. We're we're looking very vigorously at that. There's been some initial trials that are starting now that look promising. The nature of the AIDS virus has made it difficult to produce a vaccination in the sense that we think of hepatitis vaccinations, tetanus vaccinations and those ends and the like but we are making some progress in that way and that ultimately will probably be one of the answers to AIDS but not for many years and I just like to reinforce that that we can't hold that for this magic cure to protect all of us we and we have to start looking right now at our own behavior and take a look and see how we can change that to be (00:36:29) safe. I bet kids think they're Invincible that nothing can happen to (00:36:33) them. Absolutely and we've seen that with unwanted pregnancy with smoking with all kinds of other educational issues that it's something that's going to happen down the line and they don't think it will ever happen to them. So that immediate condition that they're in right now to think only of today or the immediate future. Sort of precludes any kind of real prevention strategies, which is a real challenge than for all of us to figure out. How do we instill in young people and in adults that kind of behavior? That's really going to be (00:37:03) responsible other colors with questions will take the next one right now. Hello, we're listening. Hello, go ahead with your question. Yes, I'm curious. Whether your guests with the consider the possibility that there's something of a bitter Harvest being reaped by the fact that over the years condoms before the AIDS crisis, which has become a gun to our heads the condoms were not stressed enough of a disease preventative measure with or without threat of AIDS and that now because of this lack of attention to that aspect of the use of condoms. We are now faced with a situation wherein we have to double triple, whatever our efforts to make one more vulnerable make the public knowledgeable as to what their use is really are I'll hang up and listen. Thank (00:38:01) you. Thank you and the issue about condoms is a very good point actually condoms are not only an effective means of preventing pregnancy, but of reducing the transmission of all sorts of sexually transmitted diseases gonorrhea syphilis. Bees Hepatitis B and a is also so that the use of condoms has is certainly multiple multiple advantages. The problem is is that condom use doesn't imply throwing a condiment someone and saying use this it also implies an education about how to appropriately use condoms to make them effective condoms that are left in the desk drawer ones that fall off before orgasm obviously or ineffective. So the education is important part of that. I'd like to add to that too. I think that perhaps with the onset of the birth control pill that we saw real decrease in men's involvement in birth control issues before the pilled condoms were very important part of birth control. So we now have seen a return as you were saying to a very serious situation where we have to use barrier protection. I think it's not just education for young men but education for young women. Also anyone who is engaging in sexual activity should be carrying condom should know how to buy them should know how to wear them should know how to take them off this Education for the whole Community not just for one part of (00:39:18) it other callers and we'll take the next one. Hello. We're listening for you. Yes. Yes, your conversation is going very good and you people cover the whole topic of unintentional spread of the AIDS virus, but what I'm wondering about the intentional spread of the AIDS virus and I'm talking about prison situation where prison guards are open to the AIDS virus also Hospital workers where they're in danger from either a patient or another person coming in and the staff and the people who are working with these people are not protected because they don't know who has the AIDS virus because it's not being identified and yet they're putting their lives at risk for the society at large. Can you comment on that? (00:39:57) Yes, let me talk about Hospital workers and their risk of the kind of exposure to the AIDS virus actually the risk within Hospital situations while it is certainly there is very very low. They're what we take many precautions to protect ourselves and Hospital situations against other Born viral illnesses Hepatitis B and a variety of other ones and all of those protections more than effectively protect us against the AIDS virus. Also interestingly. We were getting very lacks about those in the 70s and 80s, you know, people were just sort of passing some of those infection control policies off to the side because there wasn't any major reason seems like to be concerned even though they were putting themselves at substantial risk now with AIDS. We've really been able to go back and look carefully at our affection control policies and found that we can very very effectively protect ourselves against the AIDS virus in hospital situations all of the time and similarly reduce our risk of exposure to other serious diseases guards and prisons are certainly, you know of concern the issues that sometimes come up or things like a guard being bit by a prisoner which each has an unfortunate distraction from the truth because it was probably the The Prisoner who was being more risk than the guard because it would somehow imply that the saliva on a person's tooth was going to puncture the skin and get into another person's body and make them sick. Which is an extraordinary situation on the other hand, that's certainly the patient or the the the prisoner mom biting the guard getting blood in his mouth would potentially put himself at more risky albeit. Even at that a very very low risk. There are uniform effective protections that we can take in all situations, whether they be guards whether they be hospitals whether they be paramedics whether they be firemen that can protect themselves against the AIDS virus and consequently and protect ourselves against a lot of other very serious diseases. (00:41:42) Now, there ain't other callers with questions. We'll get back to the telephone. Hello. We're listening for you. Thank you. I have a couple questions. The first one is has to do with let's say the underlying premise of the education campaign and its emphasis on early early education and has to do with what or my question about what the incidence is of AIDS transmission among teenage teenagers or preteens through sexual contact. It seems to me that in all the reports of various studies that I have seen. There's very little transmission of AIDS among that that group and so there must be something about their sexual practice, even though it has a very early onset or very early first experience that is not causing the transmission to meet second question. I'm just interested in what the epidemiology techniques are that allowed the researchers in Sweden or Denmark, whatever it was that caused it that led to the report over the weekend that said that the incubation period for AIDS is 18 months. What what methodology can be used to identify an 18-month incubation period for a disease that is transmitted through common sexual contacts. (00:42:59) Let me let me answer the second part. There's there's always some ambiguity between incubation period that is the time between the time a person is exposed to the AIDS virus in the time symptoms develop and what is called time to seroconversion that is time between exposure to the virus and the I'm your blood test becomes positive. The study that you're referring to was was referring to the ladder and that is a time to an exposure the virus in the time that the blood test becomes positive most of the people the vast majority convert between three six weeks and three months. Some people may be later than that in some situations. If we're there is very very small exposure to the AIDS virus or perhaps not even to the AIDS virus itself, but some components of it. There's also people who we take care of who actually have AIDS who may not have a positive AIDS antibody test their immune system has somehow been damaged to the point that they're no longer able to produce antibodies as it is. I've not yet actually been able to read the scientific report of that information that you're referring to but I always put those sort of things on the back burner to start until you're actually able to look at the scientific information because almost uniformly when it comes out and we're actually able to review it but it should be within within a short time. We find that there's major flaws or some sort of problems with the way that the studies been done and I can quote you many many examples in the last few years. Relating to AIDS and other diseases that the talk about that specifically but to go on to your first point and that is about the lower risk amongst teenagers. I can remember in 1981. We were doing risk monks game in San Francisco. Everyone's going. Well. The risk is really solo do we really should be really be worrying about this right now and and the risk in the midwest. Well the risk is so low here. Why do we really need to worry about this right now if you wait until the problem is big enough that it bowls you over you have waited way too long. If we wait until 80 percent of the people are exposed to the AIDS virus. We've probably waited too long. The fact that less kids have a disease right now is simply a reflection of the fact that it started in in other areas in high-risk and older people who are more sexually active and variety of other things and kids are in no ways protected they have exactly the same type of vaginas the same rectums the same immune system and it's the same virus that's infecting them. I'm just want to add to that. I think we're not only preparing young people for their behavior at the moment. But they in there the rest of their lives they are most likely going to be sexually active some will be married in a man in monogamous situations. Will not and that if we don't get the information to young people now and help them to integrate that into their daily lives and into their sexual practices. We really are a long way off (00:45:26) Target about 13 minutes remaining in our conversation with dr. Scott Strickland and Catherine. Jordan will go back to the telephone. Hello. You're next. Hi. I have a more mundane question. I'd like to know the cost of testing that's available now. (00:45:41) Okay. First of all, you can get the test done for free if you want to one of the counseling and testing centers one of which is in Downtown Minneapolis and one in st. Paul if you choose to have it done in pay for the initial screening test the Eliza test price varies considerably but usually somewhere between about four and eight dollars if the confirming test has to be done that will cost somewhere between about 20 and 30 or as high as 80 dollars in some situation so it can cost you probably somewhere between 20 and you know as high as perhaps 80 or $90 in some cases (00:46:13) are many if not most Physicians or hospitals in Minnesota able to carry out the various aids to detection (00:46:19) tests. Everybody would be available would be able to do them. All right, so I would just like to point out that it might be to a person's advantage to consider where they go for that test and that I would encourage people to go to Anonymous test sites either The Red Door Minneapolis or room 111 and st. Paul and there are other places around the state to get that test done because anonymity is protected and there are some certainly some political and other kinds of issues involved here with a positive test and one really needs to consider an expiry strongly how how you're going to get a (00:46:52) test back to the telephone for another question. Hello. We're listening for yours. Yeah. Well, I have a comment and a question the comment reveals and discusses in relation to the amount of money that's spent on the education this age education program that's going on is sort of a warming that we're professing the use of condoms, which I think in the prevention of most His orders are diseases. This would be okay when we talk about AIDS condoms are not perfectly safe. And especially they're not made for anal sex and to try and suggest this to adolescence or people in formative years. I think is a real Injustice and a weight and a real Injustice in the use of the money. I think a year have to start talking to looking at abstinence, you know, although granted man is a little difficult and dealing with absence. We start talking about social restrictions the question sort of focuses on that of restrictions of society, you know, we talked and we focus on it seems like it's okay or the attitudes okay to let this lie because it's lower class individuals the drug abusers the homosexuals of people that are basically seen as deviants. We don't we don't focus in on the haemophiliacs the people that are in consequentially infected but there don't seem to be restrictions punishments for these people you had the issue where you have a Doctor Who falsifies Command sub on an upper class or what would be considered an upper-class individual? Okay. Can you get to your questions there so we can get interesting? Yeah, you put a prostitute in jail there seems to be no fair treatment of individuals and I think we need to start looking at or have comment on looking at putting restrictions on individuals with AIDS giving out or formulating putting these people in isolation or Jordan. Go ahead and respond to (00:48:40) that. I'm going to try to respond to part of that about the educational efforts being directed only a condom. Certainly they are not we're trying to give young people a whole variety of information about how they can protect themselves which includes postponing sexual contact until someone is really ready and knows what that entails. I really think it is much too early for young boys and girls, I'll call them at 13 and 14 to be engaging in sexual intercourse. However, they are and what we need to do is to be as informative as we can and help them with all the information so they can And protect themselves and can choose to use condoms which we know when used effectively when used before any contact sexually least especially with the vaginal intercourse that if used with spermicides, it's a very highly effective barrier protection. Yes condoms are not made for are particularly made for anal intercourse. There are some condoms that are coming out that are stronger that are thicker rubber. I think that gets into a very important issue about how people choose to be sexually active but they need to know what the risks are. They need to make their own choices. And what we're trying to do is give them a range of options and have them be responsible in that (00:49:52) back to the telephone and another question. And hello. We're listening for yours. Well, first of all, I have been a listener for a long time like ksjn and the problems that I see with due regard to AIDS and the H project Etc is that it does not hit upon the problem and that is the control of the people. We're practicing this dread disease if you will getting involved and creating that disease and they don't seem to want to stop in other words. They do not want to develop an alternative Behavior. They want to do what they want to do. Okay, dr. Strickland. (00:50:32) Well that that's there that of course very rapidly gets into a lot of moral and ethical issues at all sort of try to stay away from bit if I can and just look at the whole thing that there is a the whole issue the fact that there is a subgroup that is somehow causing this disease and that that is certainly not the case in the disease happens to have started amongst gay men in this country, but it is it is seen almost exclusively among heterosexuals in Africa, and we have a piece of information here with us today that indicates that the spread among heterosexuals is something that we're going to be seeing more and more it it's it controlling behavior of one group is not going to do anything to stem the spread of this epidemic. It is a virus that is spread sexually from person to person and while it may reassure some Oops to think that antibody positive people people who are gay people who've been or intravenous drug abusers if they're somehow locked away. The epidemic will go away is certainly very very narrow approach. And what we need to do is to look at the tire issue of a virus causing a disease in our society and and the issue of homosexuality or other behaviors. However, one looks upon those is an irrelevant Point (00:51:35) other callers will get back to the telephone right now. Hello, we're listening for you. I understand that. It's possible to get AIDS through an open cut and I'm wondering about them the effects of mutual masturbation. (00:51:49) The actually the AIDS virus probably could be introduced into the body through an open cut the AIDS virus could there's some information pertaining to blood and blood exposure onto the skin, although that to those situations seem to be extremely remote an extremely difficult and it would really have to be a fresh open-cut literally that has not started to heal that would have to be prolonged exposure in that area. And even then the risk seems to be extremely extremely remote. So could it possibly happen again as we've talked about earlier that I suppose it could remotely in some situations but there's many protections that our body would have against our to protect ourselves in those situations (00:52:25) other callers and back to the telephone. Hello. We're listening for you. Yes, I want to ask you to evaluate a book that's in circulation at least where I'm living in other areas as well is by Jean Antonio and it's called the AIDS coverup and is a big question mark on it. If either of you or both of you read that book, I'd appreciate some evaluation of it by you and in particular. Killer in there. He speaks about a report and they did 1985 from the on collage achill Institute in Paris in which they isolated the AIDS virus and firm that it's viable up to 15 days at room temperature in both liquid and dry cultures and if that's clinical fact, what does one make of it? Those are my two questions? Thank you. (00:53:17) Thank you for the opportunity to address that particular book. Also. It's something that I have read from cover to cover and I have had numbers of passages quoted to me since the time it first came out. First of all, let me sort of say that what just because something is written in print does not mean that it's true that has to do with the local newspaper that has to do with what we may find in the you know written in Publications such as that and that's probably one of the most classic examples. There's one can go through that one sentence at a time. And if you understand the AIDS And there's literature you can very effectively in carefully strike down everything that they bring up in that many of those those passages from the past year Institute have subsequently the information has been found to not be true not be substantial and in some cases even be even been withdrawn by the original researchers. The the the very question about viruses being detectable on culture media for extended periods of time after removal from the body concluding dry and and and excessively warm surfaces. Most of that information has again subsequently been than reviewed and it really not been found to be valid in addition has lots of studies that have been done since that time. But even that covers up the whole issue and that is even if it was found 15 days later. Is it still infectious or infect Ebola can a person become infected from that surface and many times the amount of virus concentration of the virus the liveliness of you of the virus is not substantial enough to actually cause transmission to another person. (00:54:43) All right, and we have about four minutes remaining but we want to make sure we give out the telephone numbers and titles that we gave out earlier. So we have time for maybe one or two short questions. Hello. We're listening for you. Yes. I was wondering if either of you guessed it ever heard any of the third world reports that the virus actually originated in Fort Detrick Maryland in a laboratory. I think it was laboratory number 550. (00:55:08) I have heard that I've not actually heard of that particular laboratory. But I've heard that there's been considerable speculation in various areas that the virus was somehow produced and then released into the into the world or acts either accidentally or on purpose there is there's certainly nothing to substantiate that and indeed we know that the AIDS virus was been in Africa for many many years prior to the time that it was in this country causing the same disease that it causes here and if such a thing did happen it had to have happened a very very long time ago and was introduced into central Africa, which is obviously not an issue that when even would consider as being a valid concern, (00:55:41) let's try one more caller, huh? We're listening for your question. Hi, I'm Tamara a question specifically related to the operating room and more specifically the anesthesia. Would you if you were an anesthetist in a relatively low risk area wear gloves and goggles all of the time or just at a height with the high-risk patient part of time. What what would you exactly do with about this? Thank you. (00:56:06) That's a very good question. Again. All of the issues that have to do with health care workers reflect directly back on what we've always recommended but never carefully been followed and that is if you're in a situation where you may put yourself at risk of exposure to blood to blood and other body fluids, you need to protect yourself. If you are putting it in the tube down into the person's throat intubating them. You certainly need to intubate you need to protect your eyes and mouth during that if you're simply sitting at the aunt Anastasia table with the patient completely away from you and no way that you're going to be exposed to body secretions or fluids. You don't need to take any more precautions and you would any other cases I would certainly not take any special precautions from quote high risk and quote people and I would Anyone else because you don't know who does and doesn't carry the AIDS virus in addition the protections that we recommend will protect you against a lot of other potentially very serious diseases in addition to the AIDS virus. (00:56:54) All right, Katherine Jordan. Would you give us some of the information about the video you have created and where it's available from (00:56:59) right? It's called all of us an aids for having a public preview free to the public on October 22nd at 3:30 p.m. In the main Auditorium of the downtown Minneapolis Public Library third in Hennepin. If you're interested in finding out more about the video, you can write to me Catherine Jordan at PO Box. 3262, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55403 the AIDS number four speakers, and youth Educators is 8707773. (00:57:27) Very good. Thank you both for coming by and speaking with us. There's obviously a lot of information to cover more of it will be coming up as events unfold and I think that's a good excuse to have both of you back. Especially if you're available. So thanks to Catherine Jordan who produced the video Thanks to dr. Scott Strickland who is in private practice in Minneapolis and thanks to all of you who called with your questions we had as our phone helper their bill wear them who was answering the telephone technical directors for the midday broadcast today Patty Ray Rudolph and David sleep. Well some underwriting announcements to bring you up-to-date on before we sign off this edition of midday for Monday, October 5th. The BBC reports were made possible by a grant from the capital group money management firm investing throughout the world for American individuals and institutions. Midday on Monday is made possible by television station kxl. I UHF channel 41 serving Central Minnesota now just a bit of weather information the Minnesota weather forecast for today is going to be windy very windy with light rain and drizzle over most of the state, especially in the Northeast and winds up to 45 miles per hour.