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Jerry Cassidy examines issues of Indian hunting and fishing rights in his documentary "American Indians in the 1980s: New Struggles for Old Rights." The Indian hunting and fishing rights controversy continues to heat up in northern Wisconsin as talks between the DNR and the Indians have come to a standstill. The Indians' rights to hunt and fish off their reservations were reaffirmed by the courts two years ago, and Indians say the continued conflict poses as serious threat to the progress they have been making toward improving their communities.

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One or two people in Little Bighorn bunker have been hit impossible to get a Medigap because the firing is so heavy Little Bighorn.One man. Unarmed with a white flag Little Bighorn Little Bighorn and funada and Hawkeye little California. Hold your fire last day and also hold your fire. We got a man under a white flag just going to go down and try and see if the medic has been hit that's been done here in the road for a long time. If anyone opens far this man's dead. So hold your sounds of Wounded Knee were familiar to many across the country in 1973 the 71 day occupation on the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota Drew national attention to the Indian cause but it cost three Indians their lives since then we've heard little from the Indians but today with recent victories in the courts and the halls of Congress The Eyes Of The Nation are again turning to the original inhabitants of this land among the most notable attention Grabbers is the controversy in northern Wisconsin a battle over hunting and fishing rights and residents here say it's a battle that may once again lead to bloodshedIt's Cowboys and Indians again. Like we own an 80-acre farm and if I see any, you know after I do I don't care what the law is in the bumper stickers and hats that say save a deer shoot an Indian, but I've not yet seen them displayed or sold. You know, I have personally found signs that say save a dear and shoot an Indian while hunting with my fifteen-year-old sigh I don't care about your fishing if they use the rod and reel damn your nets, right the Indians right now. They have they're making their money on the Bingo. They've had some court cases decided in their favor. And so now you see they are an ideal scapegoat because of course, they're also different color and I don't think it is so much a one to one kind of a thing. It's the group thing the Polish people keep their culture the Italian people keep the culture the Irish people.Their culture they don't have problems keep their culture. They don't need a reservation to keep their culture. You can keep it anytime anywhere. And I'm getting tired of hearing you people say that we ended our freeloaders. I'm not a freeloader. I think any Native American who thinks the treaties won't be abrogated as is dreaming. They will be maybe not in my lifetime. But sometime we've forced our government upon in young people. We forced our religious ways of life upon any people are our languages. We've forced people on reservations. We've routed them. We've put them on Trails of Tears and long marches and Exile them from States and then we go out and act like, you know, we are the ultimate in Democratic policies the voices of those you'll hear from in the next hour their voices that can be heard Across the Nation as Indians assert their rights for wildlife. Land and economic development rights, they claimed were established by treaty signed with the u.s. In the 19th century in the next hour. We'll examine the Chippewa tribe of the upper Great Lakes as a barometer of the Indian Nation looking first at why some Indian say the progress they've made over the last decade May finally enable them to bring their communities out of the poverty that's plagued them so long then we'll focus on the Northern Wisconsin band of Chippewa and their fight for hunting and fishing rights a fight that may simply be a microcosm of the Nationwide Trend that finds better educated Indians fighting for rights that until today have not been exercised will talk to non-indians who say the newly found rights are an infringement on their own rights as US citizens and call for the abolishment or abrogation of the treaties and with Indians who say the debate could threaten the long-awaited progress. They seem to be making some say the battle over Indian treaty issues will be fought out in the halls of Congress While others claim. It'll be fun. out in the Backwoods of Northern, Wisconsin In the mid-1800s the u.s. Signed most of its final treaties with Indian tribes in exchange for land. The tribes were offered a place to live and protection by the federal government. Eventually. They were declared US citizens, but the 1924 law also allowed them to retain the rights included in the treaties, and it's that dual role that's been Central to the setbacks and successes. The Indians have seen since the 1920s, but in those days the Indians knew little about the US legal system and even less about how to play the game consequently the documents did little to enhance their lives at least in the Great Lakes region where Leola Fournier grew up laugher near spent his childhood on the shores of Lake Superior in the 1930s and 40s at the Red Cliff reservation near Bayfield, Wisconsin enrolled in A mission school here on a reservation and being that it was a mission school. If you tried to tried to follow our participate or just act as an Indian your recommended such that it was kind of beaten out of the youth at that point and there was little Improvement in the 50s says John Buck Naga who grew up on the Red Lake reservation in northern Minnesota. Of course, I was in high school, but at that particular time with the Grew Older I can see the effects of it that the state people said we will take care of the Indian people if the federal government gives us the money to do so, however, the federal government says the Indian people are citizens of the state therefore, they must assume their responsibilities. So you get to be a political football back and forth and as a result people have fell behind and all levels of social economic conditions, including housing health education civil rights. Employment we're still lagging far behind and we're trying to catch up. So like some of the elders said we gave up all his land and resources. We paid our taxes in advance. Now now we want something in return as a result says Fred Dakota of the Lance reservation in upper Michigan tribes had little hope for improving their communities even in the 60s. They used to be a time when this tribe would have a meeting once a month and that's all there was my lasted for, you know an hour or two. I don't know what was discussed but you know, there was no education programs. There was no Home Improvement programs. There was no health programs. There wasn't any of that then in the late 60s as the nation was undergoing a civil rights upheaval Indians began to organize the American Indian movement or aim became the most visible through its leadership at Wounded Knee where some two hundred Indians occupied the historical Village on the Pine Ridge reservation charging the federal government with treaty violations and the Bia and Local tribal officials with corruption but the cries of Injustice soon faded into the background as funds dwindled following the incident Rick MacArthur now with a Minneapolis helped get food to the holdouts who were surrounded by federal agents US Marshals and Tribal Police. We spend so much time writing wrongs that we end up spending all our resources. Just keeping people out of jail keeping people free and United States aim did go on to establish some social programs in urban areas and while some civil rights gains were made during the movement. They came largely in the form of organization in housing and social service programs, but to date the difference, it's made for the average Indian has been only marginal and that's especially evident in health statistics. The health problems of are basically what reflects rest the country heart disease stroke, but diabetes is probably one of Chronic illnesses and that's what Don Bowen president of the oklahoma-based association of American Indian Physicians majority of my patients. I see are overweight most of whom are diabetic and most of them have hypertension and diabetes on the Indian population does take a terrific toe now the only in the loss of life, but also the loss of extremities also the loss of vision also the loss of kidney function necessitating renal dialysis and a huge portion of healthcare funding is spent for diabetes and the complications of diabetes. In fact says Bowen most reservations report the prevalence of diabetes is between 30 and 40 percent and in some tribes as much as 100 percent and the other statistics are no less revealing unemployment has improved but still runs between 30 and 60 percent for most reservations and 20% of the nation's one and a half. Million American Indians live below the poverty level life expectancy. It's more than 10 years less than that of the white population in this country suicide among young Indians. It's at least twice the rate of the average population and alcoholism three times that of non-indians and while all the statistics weren't the further review the time doesn't permit here. We can say that with alcoholism economics is certainly a cause but Dale Walker director for social and cultural Psychiatry at the University of Washington says historical factors may play just as important to roll. It's a fact that many Indian tribes have lost their language. They have lost their way of hunting their way of eating their way of keeping warm at night and so many anthropologists believe that the loss of access to more valued parts of their own culture has caused some increase in frustration and stress. For alcohol could be as I said an easy Outlet. So the road to Improvement remains a long one but back in 1975 Congress passed an act that Indian leaders say now offers them some hope when President Nixon signed the self-determination act that year the already shaky umbilical cord linking the tribes with the federal government was all but severed in declaring reservation Sovereign autonomous self-governing Nations, the law allowed tribes to establish their own legal staffs economic development and health agencies and their own businesses John Buchan Agha of the Indian Health Service Office in Bemidji says in theory the ACT offered New Hope, but he says that was in theory alone. In other words the federal government no longer does it for them like they used to do it the tribes now assume that responsibility and in most cases are very successful. However, you must remember that it's nice that the tribes are are told by the federal government they can participate in Determination but along with that we consider that only enabling legislation because they did not fund it. The only funded very small portions of it and as a result self-determination is it's here, but at the same time it's on a limited and restricted basis because there's nothing to self-determine if you haven't got the resources to do it. I remember as a youngster coming into tribal government hearing an old-timer and Congress testifying Bill who'll tribal chairman for the Fond du Lac reservation. He didn't even know how to speak the English language and he said something like this as interpreted. There seems to be something wrong with this act. He said I fear it. He says it don't seem like they're saying self-determination. They're saying termination and how is it going to happen? It's going to happen at our own hands. For many years now. He's Indian people have been driven around in this automobile by the US government Department of the Interior. We've sat in the backseat and now they're saying Chief it's your turn to drive something's wrong with that. He said I've never been given the opportunity to drive the vehicles out of gas and got flat tires in the motor no longer runs. Now he's saying you drive Chief. I'm going to sit in the back seat and watch you and when you fail in this I'm going to say Chief see you can't do it. Now. That's old man. Truly had no formal education. But had the foresight to warn tribal government that if you're going to go towards self-determination self-sufficient do it very cautiously now, I think that's the way Final Act proceeded. It's taken more than 10 years, but the Fond du Lac reservation that who will now steers has become a model for economic development to tribes the self-determination act as allowed it in many other reservations to establish one of the largest Indian money-making Ventures ever bingo. 4 7 8 10 and 15 last year the games brought in more than one and a half million dollars and those dollars helped it become the first tribe in the nation to issue revenue bonds for its proposed Health Center and with the help of the Duluth Port Authority. It's begun a marketing plan to sell the stove's it developed to arid West African nations that are looking for ways to burn alternative fuels but it was a long time coming says who will as he spits from the pinch of snuff in his cheeks to the urn behind his desk. He looks back 10 years to the early days of self-determination and smiles humorous part of it. All was that Fond du Lac had to spend the money before we got it. Now what that meant was we had to go get a letter of credit from the bank. Well after the bank president got through laughing. There was no way he was going to give us a letter of credit. So it meant nothing to us. Until we were as tribal government. We're able to convince them. How can we spend it if we don't have it? Well go to a bank and they will lend you 300,000 sure they will sure they will. Well now we can go to a bank and get a letter of credit some of the banks and Duluth are willing to accept this now. They wouldn't have probably let us in the in the doorway before. Today who will is not only recognized in Duluth Banks, but at City Hall as well the tribe in the city have agreed to establish a five million dollar Bingo Hall in downtown Duluth 30 miles from reservation boundaries the to will split the cost and the estimated one and a half million dollar annual profit. Most of which will be earmarked for area Economic Development. And although it's taken a year. The Bia has now approved the plan that allows the downtown lot to become reservation property and thus exempt from State gaming laws. But Indian gambling has yet to be put to the test say some as other reservation start up their own ways to bring in the dollars of chance Congress continues to look at ways to limit the games so far the bills have made little progress and Indian gaming operators like Fred Dakota say they'll do all they can to keep it that way Dakota of the key when our Bay tribal community in upper Michigan is one of many who fear a backlash from the success of the Indian gambling Dakota was ordered to close his Pines Casino near Baraga. A federal judge ruled the operation doesn't comply with tribal ordinances and Lisa show continued to operate until I'm proven wrong. And if that takes US Supreme Court, hey, that's where we're going. And you know, it's all basic in if we lose this one. We're going to be losing all the way down the line and it will get right into hunting and fishing is just keep dying away until finally happens. And I'm not going to let that happen not without a fight but Sam deloria a national Observer of Indian Affairs says gambling is not the be-all and end-all for tribes. Deloria is with the American Indian Law Center in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What it'll do is it'll prime the pump one of the things that has always been difficult for the tribes is that if they have had development if they have natural resources to develop by and large the funds that they receive from those developments have gone to supporting just basic tribal government operations or have gone into servicing the development itself. So they really haven't ended up ahead on anything. I think what the Bingo is not going to solve reservation Economic Development problem. It is going to produce more Indian people who have some skills and management and it's going to create more of a cash flow on the reservation that can help to provide a private sector on the reservation and that's going to be key in the long run to Sound development that everybody would agree as a sound development and go far beyond the bingo. I just see it as a priming the pump and for Fond du Lac, that's also meant pumping some of its Bingo dollars into its own Ojibwe School and it's education that most Indian leaders say is the true hope for their future until recently though. The only option for most Indians was public education and that meant dealing constantly with prejudice and discrimination subtle or overt Bill who'll says it takes its toll on children. I remember when I went to school. I was forced to go by my parents there was many days even though I was a jock and I didn't want to go because maybe the Cook or the janitor the bus driver harassed me with his Frontier mentality or whatever that ruin my whole educational de-stress exists if people are put in an seemingly intolerable situation a situation which affect their integrity their feeling of self worse. They are feeling of dignity you is Tucker University of minnesota-duluth psychologist. Spoke before a gathering of Indian Educators racism, then provides all the underpinnings or the basis for such a condition of severe stress. And if they cannot change a situation they will start to take it out on themselves. In other words, they will start to self-destruct they may start to use Substance abuse they may start to drink they may start to do lot of things to self-destruct ultimately self-destruction met in the most severe form than amount of come to Suicide. The students aren't turned off to education. It's turned out there turned off to the way education is presented to them Don huisun Director of Education for fun Joel and his kids enjoy going to school and I think that's the main thing that we're trying to get across first off is that those kids have to have respect for themselves now that they have respect from the cells now they want to learn and now that they want to learn they don't want to quit for one thing. I think just coming here and participating in school. Is helping whereas if I think they were in the post School lies kids won't be going, you know, they won't be getting any kind of education. Let alone, you know some Steve Marcela a white biology teacher who's also taught in the public school system there, you know, a lot of people say, you know, only the problems, you know, drinking and stuff but crazy take a look at a high school in a public school system and it's it's probably just as bad or worse. There's been just too much of that stereotyping and looking down and I think with a school like this, they're gaining more respect from themselves. They can see that they can do things and you know, self-respect is a big thing in high school and everybody else is for our resident flourish, and they would need the younger generation of an education. I feel there is a need for young kids have a good education and I know I won't. I guess if you set your mind to something that's what you going to do. Even seventh-grader Rich peacock is aware of the importance of education and indication that the message is getting across but Fond du Lac is not alone across the border in Wisconsin a member of the liqueur a tribe can get his or her entire schooling on the reservation right through Junior College Eugene. Begay is a former executive director for the tribe. It is a it is a principle of educational theory that if the community controls the education system at first of all can have advantage and and what is being taught they have a control over the horror of the expenses of the school system but more so they have control over the lives of their own children that are being educated in sin. And and that's what's Happening Here In addition many states tribes and universities are joining forces to offer fault Bachelor and graduate programs to Indians like UMD and Fond du Lac attempting to kill two. Birds with one stone. They've initiated the American Indian biomedical research program surely. Our staff is the director. We are utilizing the facilities at the school of medicine and the doctors. We have five research projects to an alcohol and how it affects the system when an aging one obesity and one on hypertension of Chippewa Indians of Minnesota and its programs like these that have many optimistic not only about education but about improved health for their people as well in the past 15 years. The number of practicing Indian Physicians has grown from only a handful to more than 200 today. Again, Don Bowen of the American Indian Physicians Association, like John Kennedy said, you know where each Journey has to start with one step and that may just be one step but at least for me it's it's a big step and John Buchan Agha of the Indian Health Service says as a result Indians now seem to better understand and accept programs. Those administered through his office. We must provide immunization for all infants up to age 27 months old and our goal is set of 90% and our Area Bemidji which deals with Michigan Wisconsin and Minnesota tribes. We have exceeded that every year and our percentage of involvement of all infants for total immunization shots, and there's five of them that are level is 98% But Buck Onaga adds, the effectiveness of such programs will depend on the Indian med school students. He and others say it's essential they returned to treat their own people. And for that reason Linda GE know maybe a model the University of North Dakota med school student says she will return to her reservation in North Dakota. Well when you grow up on the reservation, you see that there's a lack of Health Facilities doctors. And many times in the Clinic's there's a long waiting list and then there was a lot of turning over some doctors would come and they'd stay for a little while I leave but I mean you can't blame them if they don't understand what's going on around there. So I think I feel like they needed somebody who understood the people but many Indian students. Once they leave for school are lured Away by opportunity and money like Mark Bell makea an Illinois med school student who doesn't plan to return home. I'm having less and less contact with her tribe. Medical skills, but will extra burden on that because I can't get back. That's a shame because we're losing some of our old folks now that are are the traditionalist. So we're losing our heritage though. I look at how many people can actually speak their own tongue now. It's terrible. We're working from bottom up now as an associate and socio-economic Ladder and Because I guess we're becoming white and why we're becoming professional business people and losing track of the fact that we are tribal government and that we are Ojibwe or whatever and it's frightening I even myself. I have to remind myself that I'm not first a business person. I'm first an Ojibwe but many are more optimistic than Fond du Lac school like Robert Powell has a former Indian studies teacher now president of Mount scenario College in Ladysmith, Wisconsin. He says unlike other minorities who have traditionally sought a piece of the American Pie Indians have a long way to go before they wholeheartedly accept the white man's ways. We're talking about a group of people then who are not really sure that the American dream is everything that it's cracked up to be safe. They're very few Indians, you know today who I believe really I mean to go back to live like Indians lived, you know, three hundred years ago or a thousand years ago. Alright, but what I think they're saying is that we would really like to be able to pick and choose. What we want to do and and what we had what we want to accept and it seems to me that that is where the idea of sovereignty is so important because it gives us that freedom. You see if we want to have our own Indian schools on Indian reservations. We can do that and the other hand because we have this peculiar dual citizenship if we want to go to Milwaukee or to Minneapolis and work for Honeywell and send our kids to the to South High School in Minneapolis. We can do that too. And I think that maybe unlike many of the the other ethnic groups who didn't feel that they had those choices and I talked to people whose ancestors were German. They said, you know, my grandfather immediately realized that if he didn't learn to read English, he was in trouble so he taught himself to read English by buying a newspaper and You know any people at the point we're at now are trying to you know, go the other way and say somewhere along the line. We lost the Ojibwe language. Let's say and they're trying to relearn it. In fact many in the Indian Community will tell you that learning the native language is only part of the Resurgence of culture that's taking place across the board. Actually what many people say is the dancing actually spur in motion client Atwood describes the dances being performed at the knee me when powwow held in Duluth Atwood was one of thousands of Indians who celebrated with dance and song over the weekend event and the powwow dancing that's individual kind of thing you then that you dance the way you want to dance so they have different styles or types of cases they have which is kind of modern. Although the powwows of today have changed significantly from those of yesterday. Many of the old ways are still being honored at the Gatherings and Numbers alone. There's an indication the Indian culture is being preserved nearly every tribe in the region now hold some sort of traditional celebration. But as recently as five years ago, that wasn't the case, Maryland Benton is one of the organizers for the honor mother earth pow. Wow, that's been held at the liqueur a reservation for the past six years taking a look at our belief that things happen in a circular way in circles, you know at a time in the 1950s when it was not good to be Indian a lot of our Indian people put our values in our teachings away. And now what I see in the 70s why this powwow itself was created was a beginning of them to come back to bring them back. And now in the 80s what I see is Indian people are ready to bring our cultural and spiritual beliefs back and to incorporate them into this life. And when we do that, then we can begin to deal with some of the problems were faced with At home Indian leaders say it all points to a brighter future for their people the strength of their culture Education Health and economies. They say may eventually bring stability and perhaps Vitality to their as yet struggling Nation, but Sam deloria says, ironically the strength may lead to the reversal of the trend that so many tribes are banking on today. What we've observed in the work that we've done around the country is when a tribe exercises its powers of self-government. And uses the same standards as the surrounding communities the same regulatory standards the same tax standards. Then the whole society applauds and says the Indians are cooperating with us. Everything's going to be fine. But when a tribe exercises its tax or regulatory standards to put itself at a competitive Advantage then everybody gets upset and says those damn Indians are peddling their immunity from State jurisdiction. So we have the Bingo and we have these off-reservation hunting and fishing issues and what we're going to have to do really work the whole society is coming to the point where we really have to think about the nature of tribal self-government. If it can be used by the tribes true protect and preserve certain elements of their culture that they think is important and if it can be used by the tribes as a tool to encourage Economic Development and finally resolve some of these terrible economic problems on the reservations, then it's worth something but if the society will only stand Tribal self-government to be used to put the tribes at an economic disadvantage or to be used to do what everybody else is already doing then it's not worth much and then the promise of resolving economic problem sounds a little Halo. And if there's one case that seems to illustrate the Indian struggle as the Glorious spoke of its the hunting and fishing conflict in northern Wisconsin Are My overall perception of the situation in Northwest Wisconsin is that it is like a teapot and as the Flames of racism and Prejudice grow hotter the pressure within that pot builds and builds. There are three options at that point one is to reduce the flame to to remove the teapot or three to allow The Escape of those resulting pressure. But to do nothing is to risk an explosion there have been Games Slender Z liqueur a tribe speaking before Wisconsin advisory committee to the u.s. Civil Rights commission's am I perceive that there was both subtle and blatant racism a coldness and interpersonal relationships between Indians and non-indians and outright hostility toward Indians. We have handle a bunch of other matters, but we had never handled one like this one. Tony Baez heads the civil rights committee you have here rather complicated situation it is Situation that it emerges out of feelings that are ingrained to other historical period and that you have additives that you know surface as a result of that situation that could be very dangerous could be translated into actions that may result in some harm to individuals. So we definitely are concerned. We don't think we really had a sense of how of the nature of the situation until tonight by other Civil Rights Commission the governor's office and the FBI of all undertaken investigations into this conflict spurred by reports of death threats from members on both sides at the heart of the issue are the treaties of 1837 1842 and 1854 in which the Chippewa ceded the land they occupied which included approximately the northern third of the state and in which they agreed to reside on specific reservations David Jacobson is with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. On that reservation that they had given up these rights that was an assumption on our part and we lived with that assumption anytime a tribal member was caught hunting or fishing off the reservation. We would arrest them. And they'd complain a number of times and they've been complaining over the years if they felt they had a right to do that. We said not yet that right was gone in 1854 when you accepted the reservation system and the thing was kind of in limbo for all these years until Along Came the void case the void case the center of the controversy it began in March of 1974 when to liqueur a reservation members were arrested for fishing off the reservation a year later. The tribe filed suit among those named was Lester P voice secretary of the Wisconsin DNR Again David Jacobson, we weren't afraid as an agency. We went out made that arrest. Well, we thought it was a good rest and it was good faith. People were obviously violating the law as we understood it on that day, and we took it to local court, and we won ruling in favor of the state was Federal District Court Judge James Doyle, but after a series of appeals Doyle was overturned by the US court of appeals seventh circuit in Chicago then in October of 1983. The US Supreme Court refused to hear the case letting stand the Lower Court ruling in favor of the Indians what they said was that you can't lose our right by implication. It must be by specific language and there was no specific language in the Treaty of 1854 and the court has ruled that the tribe retained those rights and that they were indeed in existence today. That's quite a shocker. Fooled everybody including us ever since that happened. I've been involved in trying to deal with some reasonable meaningful settlement to the issue. I've worked in state government for a long time. I've never worked with a problem like this before or a problem that taxed me and worries me as much as this one. It's a serious problem. It's a social problem more than a resource problem actually and it has a lot of people upset. We just feel that according to the Constitution and I know there are exceptions made for Indian treaties. But according to the Constitution you cannot deny a man any right based on any alien age, which is Adam Horvath leader of one of the two most vocal groups to come out in opposition to the so-called white decision the group calls itself the Wisconsin Alliance for rights and resources or War. We feel that upholding outdated treaties from the 1800's prior to the statehood. Is a violation of our rights it threatens our resources, we feel that we are not second-class citizens about that. We are providers not users in the case of the Indian treaties that we have to support them all aspects of their life and sit back while they extend these writes quote unquote over and Beyond ours the rights Horvath speaks of have been spelled out in agreements between the sixth Northern Wisconsin Chippewa tribes and the DNR Again David Jacobson who's currently a chief negotiator for the state for the state. He said the other thing that you've got to do is decide how much Authority the state of Wisconsin has to regulate recognizing that the state is the custodian of the resource. So those are two big issues before judge Doyle. So in the meantime I wouldn't be to the Indians advantage or to artists and ago she ate anything. That's very permanent. So we're coming up with a series of temporary agreements that take us through one season at a time. But the agreements have been less than satisfactory too many white residents of Northern Wisconsin in the small town of Heyward a center for outdoor enthusiasts which sits just 10 miles from the liqueur a reservation residents are to say the least skeptical about how the agreements will be carried out. Now. I say want to take the hunting privileges hunt on anybody's land. They're not going to hunt on a mine. Unless I could man enough to ask me and if I feel like it, I'll tell him. Yeah, and if I don't I'll tell them no, I don't think it's fair that they take all the fish out of all the Lakes. And then when you arrive or somebody else wants to go fishing. We got to fish our heart out to catch one or two and they I don't care about their fishing if they use rod and reel damn your nets one that really bugs me is the one that they can go onto any other Hunters land and hunt. That's there's no way that like we only 80-acre farm and if I see anyone out there, I'd I don't care what the law is it? I don't think that should be that's our land they own enough out there. They don't have to go to other people's land. I don't know what I do. It. It'd be tense. I know that in fact, the Indians are not allowed nor have they saw to hunt or fish on private property. But under the agreements, they are given privileges on public land that extend beyond those of the non-indians. They're allowed to fish with extra lines and Spears to hunt deer with uncased loaded guns in their cars and they're given extended seasons for both fish and dear beyond the regular State seasons, and it's the combination of the additional rights in the misunderstanding of those rights that have prompted the growing sentiment against the agreements and many are afraid of the outcome the Wisconsin counties Association wrote area Congressman David Obie asking him to intervene fearing it said that blood could be shed on Wisconsin land and many key players agreed among them James slender chairman for the void intertribal task force a group of tribal Representatives that's been formed to monitor the execution of the agreements. I think there's that fear out there. I know many Indians will not go to establishments in town out of out of out of fear for their personal safety. No one wants to point to those but I think it's entirely possible that something like that could happen. And Paul Mullally agrees. Malala is the leader of the group equal rights for everyone or Earth which has come out against the void decision. I've been threatened with my life. I have had threatening telephone calls. I have had threatening things in a meal so we didn't come here to hurl Acquisitions and I just want to make it clear that this stuff is on both sides. And I think if we play that stuff down and I have made a mistake to the fact that Summers order told me that he was going to shoot an Indian if the engine came on his Lake and speared muskies or walleyes in the spring. I think you have to understand what those fish mean to those small Resort has on those lakes and I can certainly see where that anger could come out indeed fishing is more than just a hobby for sportsmen in this region. It's a way of life. But Paul domain the governor's aide for Indian Affairs says traditionally, it's not been the Indian that's depleted the resource the Buffalo were depleted because of bad resource practices by the European people the moves and Elk are no longer in northern Wisconsin not because Indian tribes chased him out or shot every moves her out. It was because of the non-union that came in here and I think that the tribes in the long run can prove that they are concerned about the resources and in their efforts to protect the resource the tribes formed the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission among other things. The group has been instrumental in joining with the DNR to form another Resource Management Group, The Joint technical Fisheries workgroup DNR negotiator, George Myers says the group may help ease some of the tension at the negotiating table the idea being that biologists if they if they're set aside from the political process and negotiation process generally will come to the same general conclusions regarding Hollow fishery is going to be impacted very various fishing methods and limits and once that has happened then both sides can have a common ground of facts to work with it eliminates biological facts from dispute. But biological facts are not all that's being disputed here. Social pressure has also jeopardized The Limited Harmony existing between the state and the tribes under the latest open Waters Fishing agreement Indians for the first time were allowed to Spearfish on public Waters and although the DNR sent 200 wardens North to monitor the situation a number of confrontations did break out and Meyer suggested buying the spearing right from the Indians to avoid similar incidents in the future while preset spokesman for the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission says that cast a dark shadow on the entire process. He concluded that it doesn't matter whether we're having a negative effect on the resource management are not that they are unwilling and unable to go forward in this instance because of the social pressure. I think the state of Wisconsin has utterly abdicated their responsibility in terms of being able to communicate with with residents and citizens and user groups. First of all, the seriousness of their position and the reasoning for negotiation and secondly the value of maintaining basic social peace and Harmony, if not, the protection of people civil civil rights. I think they've absolutely failed and in doing that he didn't he didn't need 200 wardens a few descent five Educators in advance to talk with people and the general public hasn't been real happy with the DNR either. Although the Indians have only harvested about 10% of their allowed limit L Horvath says that story might have been different if it were not for the public outcry. We didn't feel that a lot of the concessions. They made were in the best interest of the resources and we felt it citizen input is largely responsible for the Chippewa. Exceeding their take and not pushing this past hunting season like they could have because they were aware that there was opposition not violent opposition just opposition. However, the agreements have received the unqualified support of environmental groups like The Izaak Walton League and the Sierra Club and Governor's aide. The main says there is other evidence. The resource is being protected the Lac du Flambeau tribe in Central Wisconsin has had a fish hatchery since the 1930s. It was more than willing to go to off reservation fish stocking and there's more fish that have been planted them tribal members have been able to harvest we're looking to spread that out onto some of the other reservations. It's immaterial if if I go out and take a weight a lot of season if I did it as some of the Chippewa did it would cost me a minimum of three thousand dollars in my hunting privileges for at least a minimum of a year or two years. And to turn your back and say that that's okay for them and that's legal and that I should accept that I think is ludicrous the fact that a Chippewa can sit on the ice with 16 lines. Whereas I'm limited to three. It just doesn't stand to reason it doesn't seem to me the way our system is supposed to operate and I think that that's insane in a Democratic Society. I think it'll be changed. I think any Native American who thinks the treaties won't be abrogated as is dreaming. They will be maybe not in my lifetime but some time because they do not fit in with society as a whole and there are many that agree with Horvath in Sawyer County where Hayward stances the county seat 75 percent of the voters cast their ballots in favor of having Congress take another look at the Indian treaties. And so the controversy turns from an argument over the resource to 1 over Indian rights in general encompassing all aspects of Indian life. Again, Paul Mullally for the sake of the Indian people. And the other people living here is time to discard the bleeding heart or poor Indian syndrome. Quite contrary to what many you think you are a fee is not anti-indian. We are a group of citizens who want to live with our neighbors peacefully and that great word that is used. So generously in the constitution of this nation in Tranquility the way to this is under one law and no special treatment for any segment of society based on race color or Creed. Near a fee is looking for the future of our state and nation and does not promote the idea of dollar bills for Band-Aids on a wound that could heal itself if left alone the very fact that the tribal leaders are asking for segregation is not to be blamed on the Indian people again, the blame will have to be put on the government and the bureaucracy. It is a means by which they can keep control of the Indian people and thus perpetuate too many Bureau of Indian Affairs jobs that hang on the poverty of the general Indian person at this time. Let's dissolve the Bureau of Indian Affairs. And the any other agencies formed to segregate discriminate and perpetuate the division of our nation and our risk people. Those are the Simple Solutions that are being recommended again to us or for us. Oh and the Bureau of Indian Affairs is to blame and if only we abrogate the treaties. If only we do this this one next thing it's bullshit and when he utters anything which purports to describe Either the social cultural political makeup of the Indian reservations why anyone takes that that man seriously is beyond me what begin what percent of the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission and he is usurping the legitimate concerns and questions along some of the very lines that were struggling with and he has scared people into believing that I and others again. I going to disrupt tourism in northern Wisconsin, we're going to devastate the resources were going to take over the country to quote him and just astounding irrational claims, but he's done it in such a way. Is that what he's done is he's captured the he's captured the concern and has turned it into fear although Mr. Mullaly. Claims to speak for the silent majority. It's a Mindless minority in my estimation. They nothing in it smacks of equal rights for anyone but dr. Robert Powell Osman scenario college President says the seeds of the controversy may be buried deeper than that in northern Wisconsin for alas the last period of time it has become a very depressed area economically. And so people are down there dispirited in many cases. There is a lot of rather significant drinking problems. And I think that any time that you find a situation like that people are looking for a scapegoat. All right, the Indians right now, they have their make a little money on the Bingo. They've had some court cases decided in their favor. And so now you see they are an ideal scapegoat because of course, they're also different color you see and then I think the other thing is that we've kind of regressed. It seems to be in the United States to a time when we see almost a kind of a reaction once again against immigrants. Against people of color whatever that color is against foreign incursions into the country. And I think that is fueling the situation when federal dollars are given two tribes advertisements are inserted in our local paper, which state Native American preferred. I resent this statement. Anyone born in the United States is and should be considered Native American. But the truth is were made with our nation's these entities are not sovereign know your non-existing Nations. They are under control of the federal government. They are not sorry as I said before take away our government Aid and you will have nothing but a piece of land the same as another piece of land in any other County. All I want is the same rights that they have. Reservation residents may vote in every election and receive every Social Service benefit and yet pay no taxes reservations exist on taxpayers dollars yet our Sovereign Nations. The definition of sovereign is supreme in power or authority reservation businesses pay no property taxes and can operate an unfair competition with private Enterprise casino gambling. Mango, not subject to state law polluting Industries unfair business competition subsidized by taxpayers who know Lawrence among those speaking at one of the dozens of public hearings on the issue that have been held across the state although the majority of more than a hundred that turned out at this meeting were white some Indians did turn out I've been reading the newspapers are from what the Chipola people call your people to smoke a man is complaining about the engine giving pre-loading free gravy from the government that we get away with not paying taxes. All I do is for you. You're looking at a taxpayer 11 years. I own property over it could rain. I've been paying taxes to the state of Wisconsin like I buy a car I paid taxes. All right Amaya preloader and I'm getting tired of here. You people say that we ended our freeloaders. I'm not a freeloader that's paying taxes. There's hundreds here in the state of Wisconsin and elsewhere. Because if all the Indians were like you we wouldn't have any problems now despite the sentiments at such meetings and the Sawyer County vote for treaty reconsideration congressman from the area have yet to take a definite stand but some State lawmakers have been very clear on their position like state. Senator Dan theno of Ashland who says he hopes to force the Washington Representatives into action. I do know that the people the 25th district to overwhelmingly support renegotiating or terminating of Indian treaties 80% of them that might not be the pinion Statewide but clearly the legislature maybe I ought to take steps to find out more about public opinion on this particular issue treaties between the federal government and foreign powers or in this case the Indian nations what they termed as Indian nations were made and Congress has the authority to abolish them. However many Indian leaders A the treaty abrogation is unlikely again. Dr. Robert pollin 10 years ago when I came to UMD, I tried to explain to students that it's kind of like having your great-grandfather who you never really knew suddenly a lawyer appears and says, you know, your great-grandfather left you a legacy of a hundred and fifty million dollars. Do you say well, you know, I didn't have anything to do with that just an accident of blood so I'm not going to accept that say and maybe that's a little simplistic but the other aspect of it I think is that if we are going to talk about renegotiation of treaties, we're going to have to talk about two things one. We're going to have to talk about time. In other words, maybe a hundred years from now would be a good time line to set for working our way out of the whole treaty situation if that's what we wanted to do. And then secondly, we're talking about a lot of money because if you want to renegotiate then that opens the door for Indian people to say, okay, what was land worth? What is it worth now in money? I think those are two very important things and James slender says abrogation may be unlikely, but treaty reconsideration is a real possibility. It's the word of the nation can be broken so easily when apparently the benefit of the bargain goes against the United States interests, then what is the United States words worth in an international context? So there's a far-reaching consequences for not honoring or abrogating Indian treaties with the concept of renegotiation. I think that the tribes would be willing to look at that. But I think that they need to have clearly the assurance that if they say no that their answer would be honored in other words that I know would be taken as a no and that renegotiation would not be just merely giving up more rights without getting something in return and in that context perhaps something could be accommodated. I think you have to look to history, however and We signed a series of treaties with the United States government each time. They said this was the last one. So we see history repeating itself. I think tribes have that history to to look at and be wary of the controversy in northern Wisconsin is just one of many similar issues to surface Across. The Nation Indians are reclaiming rights to resources like salmon in the Northwest to land in Minnesota, Wisconsin and other states and two controversial economic developments, like operating a brothel in Nevada for the most part each case will have to be fought individually, but while the individual battles wage on most Indian leaders here say they may be making some Headway in the war for independence and prosperity and that should they be able to fend off any major overhaul of the treaties in Congress. The marginal gains made in the past 10 years could be followed by a much more Progressive decade still others say that's only a pipe dream and that the best they can hope for is that which they've been able to hold on to in the past namely the survival of their people.


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