(00:00:00) I'm going to let Lee Iacocca do all the commercials and some people, you know politicians who are always so sensitive. And they say to me, what does he have in mind? It's going to run for Senate. (00:00:16) What does he want to be president United States? I says Lee Iacocca doesn't want to (00:00:19) be Senator and he doesn't want to be present. He wants to be king. The I think he would be president. If you could dispense (00:00:31) with the Democratic party (00:00:32) convention and the Republican party convention and just give it to him and sort of draft him. the title of the assignment today is have the unions outlived their usefulness In a word (00:00:48) no, (00:00:52) but this question really is raised seriously in some quarters. I heard it at a conference that is at about a week and a half ago. And which the chairman of Dreams was a participant at one was saying are they relevant any longer? I think it's necessary to talk a little bit about the labor movement where it's been before we discuss where it might be going and I'm not an apologist for the labor movement. I think there's good unions I think is mediocre unions and I think there's some unions that disgrace the name. I think that there's some leadership and thankfully just a few unions it really break their pledge inner vow to their membership, but basically in America, there are two kinds of unions those that we call a bread and butter unions who are have a single focus and that is negotiating higher wages and more fringe benefits for the members. Then there's others that glad that I (00:02:05) come from that kind of organization like (00:02:08) the UAW. Who I believe are instruments for social change and I spent my entire adult life (00:02:16) in the labor movement and I wouldn't spend five minutes in the (00:02:19) labor movement. If I happen to be associated with some of the labor unions in America. Now, when you look at the history of the labor movement and this go back to the early days at AF of L, that was the institution more than any other in America that advocated an agitated for free education in our country. And then Along Came the cigar makers Samuel Gompers who was president of the AFL and he had a political cradle that said we're not going to engage in partisan politics were going I think he says we Ward our friends and punish our enemies. I just reading the other day. That any earlier days in the early days of this Century to labor movement at least the AF of L part of the labor movement or other sections and Knights of Labor and industrial workers are world but AF of L was would not Advocate unemployment compensation or workers compensation. They were opposed to it because this thought that this the theorized that they would not be able to be as effective in the bargaining table of some of the problems of the members were solved in a legislative halls (00:03:42) and what a change has (00:03:44) come over to labor movement one other word about Gompers when you read about Samuel Gompers. At least I do in the papers that I see they say when you're talking about the labor movement. What does labor want (00:03:59) then the editorial writers go out and say well Sam (00:04:02) Gompers told us what labor wanted when Sam conference was asked what this labor want. (00:04:08) He said more and I think most of (00:04:11) you have read that description of Gompers statement. Well, it's interesting to look at what Gompers really said Gompers was asked the question. What does labor want? And Gompers in response said we want more schoolhouses and less jails more books and less Arsenal's more learning and lessvice more constant work and less crime more Leisure and less greed more Justice and less revenge and that's really what gets Samuel Gompers said in the early days. But if we look at the more modern days of the labor movement and look at the industrial unions, and as a part of it we were born in struggle. There is nothing short of Oppression on a plant floor and and brutality when we try to organize our fellow workers. And when you think back in the thirties the goals of the UAW and the other industrial unions, they weren't great goals and terms of monetary demands fact of the matter is the wages and the Auto industry were very high before the unions. So fundamentally. The reason that we organize is to get a measure of dignity. and a sense of security and the dignity in those days took the form of being able to raise a question a mere question with a supervisor being able to dissent being able to disagree be able to get in the grievance procedure where you could express yourself and security security was very modest (00:06:00) and the (00:06:00) first contract we got seniority this didn't create any jobs, but at least it divided up the available jobs on an equitable and non-discriminatory basis. It's ironic. I think that the 1984. When the Auto Workers go to the bargaining table, there are two principal objectives believe it or not will be dignity and security but I'll take a little different form dignity will take the form of the workers demanding to have a greater voice. In Rome future in their own dignity a greater voice in how their work is organized a greater voice in the quality of the product and other decisions, which will make jobs more meaningful give workers a greater sense of satisfaction and sense of achievement and for the employers, it will gain for them higher quality product and it will gain from them for them greater productivity because so many companies large companies basically because you always had better (00:07:09) communication in smaller companies (00:07:11) have come to the realization that the men and women who work in the plant are intelligent Innovative. They've got great Ingenuity and they've got a contribution to make and so you're going to see a negotiations in 1984 the firming (00:07:27) up (00:07:29) Of Greater participation on a part of work some of will take it doesn't have to be members of corporate board, but they'll be having a voice through representatives of their own choosing and more meaningful ways than we have historically in terms of security. I think there's going to be a variety of proposals. I don't want to go into all the details now some are very very obvious that the main thrust will be that we cannot simply cannot go through the pain and The Agony and the suffering (00:08:02) that the Auto Workers went through (00:08:03) in 1980 and 81 and 82 and I'm (00:08:06) not talking about only Auto (00:08:07) Workers other workers and sometimes I think that there's two little realization of the meaning of unemployment and maybe unless you've experienced unemployment or being close enough to feel it or touch it you really don't understand the frustration and the misery and the despair that people feel that are ready and willing and able names. To work and can't find employment. And I saw in the last few years. It's not only a question of a man or a woman or the head of household. Who is he (00:08:38) earner in the (00:08:39) family losing their ability to provide for their families, but as the unemployment continues, they lose their sense of dignity (00:08:49) and we've got to figure out (00:08:51) ways of when they work force is compressed. We've got to do it in a more Humane as civilized manner. Let me just say quickly. people who ask well the labor movement really is priced themselves out of the market. The labor movement has too many fringe benefits their wages are too high. And my response is that when you go to the bargaining table in nearly every case, you're really reflecting you're trying to solve the problems of the people you represent just the UAW. For example, one of our early goals was a seniority to give us some measure of security and then as the years went on WE negotiated the first industrial pension plan because the history of our industry was that as you approached it's hard to believe the age of 45 or 50. You were turned out on what we call the (00:09:50) industrial scrap Heap and he hired and you were (00:09:52) workers. And so we negotiate a pension plan in 1950. And because the Auto industry is a volatile cyclical industry. We negotiated supplementary unemployment benefits in 1955 the add to the security of the members of our Union and so went negotiation after negotiations, but fundamentally. In any negotiations the decisions at the bargaining table should be based upon the economic (00:10:25) facts rather than the economic (00:10:27) power of either side. And I believe that normally this is the way negotiations are conducted. I think the results of most negotiations are a consequence of what was occurring economically at that bargaining table at that moment in 1982 was mentioned 1982. Our contracts had nine months to run we faced up to the reality that we were dealing with a very sick industry coupled the company's dangerously ill. And we made economic concessions in 1982. Now there were some quid pro quos because in 1982, although they're very little noticed. We got a great a larger measure of job security for the members that we represent as a trade-off for the concessions. And now as we approach 1984 to economic circumstances of change once more and this month before the end of this month (00:11:30) probably all three auto companies (00:11:33) will report their earnings for 1983 and you're going to see fantastic profits and General Motors Ford and Chrysler. My guess is the profits will be at record level for the whole industry and quite sure General Motors and Chrysler will break their previous record. I'm not quite sure about about Ford. One of the difficulties is is with a larger economic Pie as a introducers data. How do you manage? Either when the pie contracts or when a pie expands. In 1982 negotiation with made the concession. We negotiated profit sharing (00:12:22) plan (00:12:23) in General Motors and in Ford and it has an interesting history. Walter Reuther first advocated profit sharing and 1958 negotiations And he had a very rational argument. I thought he said why don't we try to divide up the economic pie after we know how large the pie is, you know the way we bargain now, it's really irrational in a way because you sit there and you try to figure out what's going to happen in the next three years and you don't even know what's going to happen in the next three months. (00:13:02) So why not divide up the economic pie after its (00:13:05) baked? And when he proposed it 1958 Harlow Curtis was in chairman of the board of General Motors and he gave a very reason rational response to our demand for profit sharing. (00:13:20) He says why this will mean the end of the capitalistic system. (00:13:25) And so we ask for profit sharing in (00:13:29) nineteen sixty one sixty four sixty (00:13:32) 77073. 76 79. And in each negotiations the company rejected our demand now some people say well if you felt so strongly about it. Why didn't you strike? Well our sense of strategy and tactics in our Union is a you should not engage in the struggle and a strike and should not ask the workers to sacrifice unless first. They understand the collective bargaining demand and support the collective bargaining demand and turns a profit sharing. I don't think was a case in either question. (00:14:09) But then (00:14:11) in 1981 about December 1981 November perhaps fill Caldwell chairman of board of Ford is a voice in the wilderness and he's giving a speech and he said, you know, we've been thinking about profit sharing is (00:14:24) really not a such a bad idea (00:14:26) after all. Roger Smith about a month later and said, you know, we've been thinking about profit sharing sweetie not such a bad idea after all of course is no goddamn profits, (00:14:38) but (00:14:41) that didn't worry me because I knew we went to the bargaining table and got profit sharing and nailed down the formula it sooner or later. They would have to be prophets or else it'd be no General Motors Corporation of Ford Motor Company. Now I don't let me just give you a rough that I would think that General Motors workers as a result of the 1983 profits with could get as high as about $700 of Ford people perhaps $400. We had an even richer formula and Chrysler to workers question workers got about what it would have received 1,500 dollars, but it gave away the formula for sum up front money. They thought they were getting the better part of the bargain. I don't know maybe Iacocca knew something that they didn't know but in any event at this time, they don't have profit-sharing bit, but it seems to me that this is a rational way to it won't perhaps eliminate debate and controversy and even confrontation on how you divide up the economic pie, but it takes a slice out of the economic pie on a predetermined formula. So at least it reduces it seems to me the area of Confrontation Well, I want to leave plenty of time for questions. Let me hurry along and and talk about just a couple of other matters and relating to the labor (00:16:09) movement. (00:16:11) People say well look at the numbers. You've got a million three hundred thousand fewer members and you had a couple of years ago. Well, that's not a consequence of people turning their back on the union. It's a consequence of the depression in 1979. The UAW had a dues-paying membership of 1 million five hundred and seventeen thousand members. And in the last few months, we've been struggling along at (00:16:39) a million (00:16:40) million 100,000 members likewise the steel steel industry. Then the question is raised. Well, why don't people join unions in larger numbers than they do. And I think there's several reasons first off. People don't join unions for philosophical reasons that I might and some of my colleagues down at the table with we joined unions because we believed that a worker cannot have a voice in their own future and own (00:17:14) destiny and less they have a collective bargaining agreement and have a union (00:17:20) absent a collective bargaining agreement you get what the boss decides to give you. No, the second difficulty is in organizing. (00:17:31) It's not that the people are opposed to unions per se (00:17:35) employers are much smarter than they used to be. (00:17:37) They treat employees better than they used to (00:17:40) be. They I think in many many companies have really changed in terms of their attitude toward work as a genuine change its not attitude the void the organization Mitchell are never forgotten his first name the tire company Michelin who operates plants and United States now and has in France for a number of years don't have any of your plants organized and he says any (00:18:08) company is organized (00:18:09) deserves it. And what he was saying essentially that if the workers have grievances who will organize and the company should not allow these allow these groups at least to Fester to the point where they want to organize and then you have the so-called experts and Labor Relations who conduct seminars and (00:18:33) teach employers not only how to avoid (00:18:36) the unionization of their plants but how to break unions once even when they when they had unions and then and I don't want to get into the detail the labor law and United States is absolutely our cake in terms of the Union's ability and a Rules by which a union must conduct itself in organizing workers. Just let me make one quick point. If you look at Canada with great similarity of our country the union success in organizing workers is much better than ours because (00:19:09) the laws Of (00:19:11) Canada really gives the labor unions a fair chance of organizing workers and hopefully in the days ahead in the United States, we will get labor law reform and let me say quickly and remind you that the 1978 the House of Representatives voted for labor law reform and I recall I think I recall vote 267 (00:19:38) to a hundred and forty-five (00:19:40) bipartisan vote more Democrats and Republicans to be sure but nevertheless a substantial number of Republicans went over to the to the Senate we had the majority in the senate for labor law reform from the first day and then a filibuster was conducted. We got up to take 60 votes to break a filibuster (00:20:02) 3/5 of United States (00:20:03) Senate we get up to 57 votes and fifty eight votes and that's as high as we got. But if we got one more vote we had (00:20:11) I say we had one more vote in our pocket someone who would give (00:20:14) us a 60th vote if we got the 50th 59th, and I couldn't recall and I suppose we weren't in the AFL-CIO that time and I'm sure maybe the same thing happened to George. Meany President Carter came to me. And he says we've got a problem. He says we want to put the Panama Canal treaties (00:20:36) ahead of labor law reform (00:20:39) and we knew to delay would greatly weakened our position. I know our Union myself. We thought it critical for our country that the Panama (00:20:49) Canal treaties be (00:20:51) be ratified and we agreed to put labor law reform and a back burner and that cost us labor law reform. But in any event, hopefully today will come in our country where the rules are fair where the unions will have a fair chance to organize at workers as they do in Canada and other countries in the Democratic (00:21:15) world. (00:21:18) Obviously another problem confronting the labor union the lot of people perceive unions as being responsible for inflation. They believe unions are sort of narrow selfish economic pressure groups and they see the corruption in a few of the Union's of America and all of us acts against our efforts to organize. And people say well, you know, look at the factories they say to me there's any auto plants. There's alcoholism and drug abuse in this plant. And what's the union doing about it? Well, first of all, we (00:21:56) try to do a lot about it and (00:21:57) cooperation of the company. We got drug abuse and alcohol programs, but basically any plant you wish to pick up in any community in is this country? That's why they're so different. It's a microcosm of that Community well, And arguments is why they labor movement is not going to disappear. First of all always be unions as long as there's bosses and it's my contention that a labor organizer really and goes back to a point that previous made rarely it they really don't organize the workers the bosses organize the workers and most cases we have to have the ability to move in exploit that situation but you basically cannot have democracy at the workplace without an (00:22:47) organization even to the best of (00:22:49) employers even at the most benevolent of employers. You cannot have true democracy at the workplace unless the workers have an organization and representation of their own choosing. And General Motors in 1982. After we negotiate a concession agreement Rogers Smith, which wasn't white or one of his brighter decisions. He doesn't have too many bright decisions, but this was not one of his better decisions. He Unilaterally, of course because they have no Union reduced the benefits and wages of the (00:23:25) white-collar Personnel (00:23:27) more severely than the concessions we made something like thick (00:23:30) 36 Cents an hour and white collar and plus somebody (00:23:34) tampered with the medical benefits and the calls came in and droves to our headquarter solidarity house come out and organize a white-collar workers and we went out and we signed up the white-collar workers and we filed in a office in Flint and one in Pontiac and one in Lordstown, Ohio 70% of that Workforce signed up and Roger Smith got alarmed and so he start giving back the concessions. And the director of organization Vice President Martin Gerber, he came to me says Doug he says he's dirty. So and so's he's they're giving these workers. He's increases and I says Martin, what do you want me to do call GM up and say don't you dare give those increases back to the workers who were trapped I said, what you have to do is is you have to go to those white collar workers. And you say you now have a decision to make do you want to live this way where what Roger giveth Roger can taketh away or do you want your wages and fringe benefits of matter of right as a matter of contract and you want to live in a democratic environment where you make the decision whether or not you want to take wage cuts and Fringe benefit Cuts as they did in the blue-collar section of the of the workforce. Well what happened? We went through election. Those three places mind you we had over 70 percent of the cards and all three places. We lost. And basically I suppose the people are saying they say well maybe they trust Roger. Well, yes, and no they said, you know, we are on the we have a free ride free ride continues. The blue collar workers will negotiate future wage increases in Fringe Benefits and should Roger ever mistreat us. We have the number of solidarity house and we'll just call them and they'll come running out here and try to organize is again at which point Roger will see the wisdom of giving back the whatever Cuts he might make and so it's not simple. But it is there are a lot of factors connected with so the question is is the labor movement and narrow economic selfish interest group. I would suggest to you if that were the case the labor movement wouldn't disappear. But it wouldn't grow would be stagnant. But I see some movement in the American labor movement. We've had some very disagree serious disagreements. They AFL-CIO. We're now back in there and I can say that there's substantial changes taking place. (00:26:21) I looked (00:26:23) at the 203 resolutions that were submitted that the convention of the AFL-CIO last October only 11 of those resolutions 11 of them related to what you could pure you call Purely labor issues common site is picnicking and issues like that. The rest of them dealt with the social problems not only of the United States of the world. So I have High Hopes about the direction of the labor movement. And if the labor movement is true to its tradition and stew history. I believe that the slogan that Walter Reuther years ago that you (00:27:05) have to labor movement has to make progress (00:27:07) with the community and not at the expense of the community and if Labour remembers that lesson if flavor does not forget this philosophical base and the idealism of Labor movement, and the labor movement is not going to disappear it to the contrary. I think it's going to grow and prosper. Thank you very much. (00:27:39) Now open for questions and the microphones are presumably working Doug. My name is Vic moose. And I work for General Motors. Probably one of the few boy and automobile and I really didn't mean what I said about (00:27:52) Roger. (00:27:55) And I've been watching what's happening with General Motors with expect with the respect to Future small car plans that appears to me. The decisions are being made at GM to build small cars broad mark them in the United States under existing dealer franchises, and I guess I'm kind of upset about this. I think we should put our heads together Union Management's or labor-management dealers in the suppliers. And I think we can compete with the Japanese and I'd like to see what we can do to keep these jobs and this business in the United (00:28:33) States (00:28:35) agree with you because you raised a current topic and that is the question of the Toyota GM and joint venture. As you know, the Chrysler Corporation has filed suit, I disagree with (00:28:49) Iacocca on this matter. (00:28:53) And disagree with the Ford Motor Company in American Motors who may be joining. I know American Motors will join in that suit and maybe Ford will subsequently. And I argue with Iacocca. I said look what Ford's doing is contrast with gender building a plant in Mexico. Now, one of the reasons are building plant Mexico's because the content requirement they're actually forced to build a plant there but briefly stated. I believe that the joint venture is better than no Venture at all. And if you worked for GM you get some sense of (00:29:31) what's going to happen in Fremont, California. (00:29:33) People say well just assemble cars are we can't make a car that way. She know you got to make the stampings and United States. So the reason they went to Fremont. There's empty space next door to build a Stamping (00:29:44) Plant. Has the cause about 600 million dollars be about 2,500 workers working that Stamping Plant and it will (00:29:51) generate about ten or (00:29:53) twelve thousand jobs. Now, (00:29:54) if the alternative to that situation is GM importing all the cars, (00:29:59) then I'll take the joint venture, but in addition to (00:30:02) that. We have an enormous (00:30:05) trade imbalance with with Japan. (00:30:08) I would imagine be about 20 million dollars in Autos alone. You see the 1983 figure I've been fact I was over there this week, but I've been going over (00:30:19) there first at the invitation of Ambassador Mansfield to talk to the auto companies of (00:30:23) Japan individually, which I did in 1979 and perhaps eight and I said to the Japanese Auto companies you're going to get great wave of (00:30:36) protectionism United States and (00:30:38) what you should do is put some Capital where your Market is and create some jobs. Or your sales are after the second world war Ford and GM poured hundreds of millions and billions of dollars into Europe. They went to where the market was. And so I said a Japanese do likewise. Well, they're moving a bit but I would be hard pressed to say well Toyota and I prefer if Toyota came here and start a venture of their own (00:31:08) investor capital building getting into this Market building a new plant of (00:31:12) their own. But as I said not moving it all is even worse. So I'm in favor of joint ventures. Because frankly it's not a pressing necessity (00:31:25) with GM but Ford and Chrysler need the Capital One of (00:31:31) the concerns. I have about the 1980 and 81 recession and at the impacted upon GM slightly, but I happen to know (00:31:41) that Ford and question (00:31:44) delayed and (00:31:44) postponed future products because they simply didn't have the capital to do it. Let me give you a prime (00:31:52) case you see these utility trucks that are around (00:31:56) and Jim's got an entry Ford's got an entry and I can (00:31:59) tell you that I will I don't know their figures and no question figures. I will bet you there's $2,000 profit in each one of those trucks. And so their wealth grocer must have been stupid. They haven't got an entry into this this segment of the market. Well, they had an entry in there. I (00:32:15) saw the clay model. I saw the mark (00:32:17) up but you needed a million a billion dollars (00:32:21) to get that into production. They didn't (00:32:23) have it. So these scrubbed it utility truck now to getting enough Capital do it. So for all of these reasons, I think that we should invite Japanese or any other Capital (00:32:36) into United States and and I think (00:32:39) that we should not at least oppose joint venture. So it's a very long answer I know but it's a very complex and very important (00:32:47) question. (00:32:50) Forgive my ignorance on on Union activities abroad but I was just listening to radio the other day and heard the tail end of a report about it tivities in Central and South America. I Believe by I think what they called a felled that AFL I don't know what the last rest of the acronym stands for could you tell us a little bit about that and what the goals are with that (00:33:12) organization? Well, first of all, let me I should have had a lot of notes up here and I skipped over and because I was running out of time, but let me make an essential point I should have made. In the necessity of trade unions and I ask any of you just look around the (00:33:31) world. And any place you (00:33:34) see a democracy, you'll see a viable Trade union movement and any places absence of unions a viable Free Labor movement there dictatorships and in those countries where you have a democracy in a dictatorship takes (00:33:50) over in this happened in (00:33:51) Germany in the 30s. The first thing they do is abolish the Trade union movement. And Central America. You cannot say there's a free Free Trade union movement there the organization to which you refer its principal purposes is to promote and and agitate for Trade union democracy in El Salvador. You may have known to of the representatives who work for that organization the AFL-CIO were murdered and there's not any free labor movement in Central America. That's worthy of its name, but I think I want to repeat so fundamental point (00:34:35) and at in Democratic societies and I don't think is an exception in the (00:34:39) world a Democratic Society will have a viable labor movement of talat are in society a totalitarianism either either of the left of the right. They'll be the will not be a free independent labor movement. From your experience in Japan when you mind commenting on the difference between Labor Management there and the Auto industry and the difference between their unions in our unions. Yeah, the unions and (00:35:07) Japan. And the Name (00:35:11) Escapes Me. The car company unions has to negative connotation his country during stablishment unions unions for example is take the Auto Workers. There's a different they all belong to an umbrella organization to Bitter basically Enterprise unions as what the are they belong to an Enterprise. There's a great deal of difference. I don't think that the unions in Japan or as aggressive as a unions United States. I happen to leave that the Auto Workers of Japan based upon their performance their productivity and the Excellence of their quality are not paid commensurate with the with their skill and their productivity, but I think it goes (00:35:56) beyond (00:36:00) The question of labor-management relationship and I think it has to do with cultural matters rather than labor-management relations. I don't want to be a sound too negative. But I think it's fair to say that the Japanese worker. Is obedient almost subservient to the boss and you know, he bows to the form and about each other but they especially low bow to the foreman and there's such a great respect for authority and it's awful hard to people who haven't been there to understand the (00:36:38) difference in the culture and the (00:36:40) results that brings it the workplace. Now when I look at that society and I look at their values I cannot see we conforming to their culture but I think eventually they'll conformed ours it there's really nobody really descents at the at the workplace your (00:37:06) obedient. You just take (00:37:07) instructions and obviously that's a pretty easy way to run a plant Let me Give an example and I don't want to use any profanity. It's important to the case first time as in Japan. I was going around. It's a Nissan plant. And it's going down an aisle of is near lunchtime big wide hours while this platform and I could see the clock in the whistle blew and about from here is an (00:37:32) embarrassingly long way to that wall or is a (00:37:35) group of workers that were ready to run across the aisle to go to the lunch or calisthenics wherever they're going to do and the supervisor who was with me as they start across the alley is raised his hand like that (00:37:49) and they stopped dead in their tracks but (00:37:51) 30 of them and waited till we walk by it was embarrassing because it seemed like five minutes and so I said to the sky they supervisor I said, you know, if you did that United States you get knock you right on your ass. I mean you'd get stampeded that's you know, that's just a small example of but I must tell you and let me add this quickly in terms of the plant. There's nothing and he When this tree, I don't know about steel or any other industry. They have no technology that we don't have in this country. In fact, they have no technology that I saw that we first didn't have in this country and their quality circles came from Professor Deming and Princeton as so I may I think we can compete with them at technologically, but I can tell you they're very very (00:38:42) good. Could you go into more about the quality of work life programs that GM especially in light of the fact that the workers seem to be withdrawing from (00:38:52) them? (00:38:55) Well, I think (00:38:57) I noticed a lot of publicity about that but it was an about two locations. There was 330 quality of work life people company and UAW people up in the up and our Institute Black Lake in northern northern Michigan and Jim McDonald a present of GM was up there and Donnie Flynn vice president of the UAW in charge General Motors Department made a joint presentation. And while there's a slippage in a couple of spots there aberrations and what you have now is a company at least the present accompanied Jim McDonald and the director Labor Relations L warned who were absolutely committed to the concept of quality of work life. And the vice president of our Union Donald who's also likewise committed and you're going to see a growth of the quality of work Life program in General Motors and I believe in Ford now, you know the Red Hots in our Union when I was President I say because it's not the first time I've been a black light. They said well Walter Reuther would spin in his grave if he knew that the President of General Motors was up at our Educational Institute the wall of met with her Educational Center. And so I said to this guy as is where would you rather have the meeting in the General Motors building and but I it's accepted now and I believe that you're going to see the advancement of the quality of work life because it see it. First of all if it's properly structured It does give the worker a greater sense of achievement and accomplishment than and self-worth and he's glad that his intelligence is finally being recognized as being given some recognition. And then on the other hand the corporations are not going to try to end the program because first of all, you can't go back to the old authoritarian ways. It's Insidious about democracy think God that wants people to experience it. They don't want to give it up and the corporation's won't want to end it because they are rewarded by better quality and greater productivity. What you give us your views concerning the establishment of the Ford plant in Mexico, at least the proposed establishment of the Ford plant. Yeah. I fill Caldwell did a very unusual thing day before yesterday to called in the leaders from all over the country Local Union UAW leaders and the chairman of the board of Ford. Addressed them as the condition of the auto company. I don't know what he said. I wasn't at the meeting but I assume he's telling him, you know, our problems are not all behind us. We still have some problems but the natural 90% of the questions he got from the floor the open the floor up from discussions on on the Mexican plant, and he said that to that group (00:41:58) that the exclusive (00:41:59) reason. For they locating the assembly plant in Mexico is because they were forced to do it at Mexico says that you are not going to operate in this country. Unless you build build a plant here and his argument was and that we make parts. For the cars are going to be build in Mexico and some 17,000 for two workers will be making those parts and he didn't say that he's making the the decision on Purely economic grounds, but merely Because by the force of the government made him do so incidentally in that connection. And I forgot where I read it. I think it was in The Economist where they were saying that our hourly labor costs and Ford is roughly about twenty one dollars an hour and that's wages fringe benefits statutory benefits like Social Security workers comp and everything and in Mexico, it's like three dollars and eighty cents an hour, but the labor costs in Mexico greater than the iron United States and they said that they're getting extremely poor quality from the plants. So maybe the mix can Venture will not be as as promising as Ford now think than any event that was Caldwell's explanation as to why they did it. You said in the in your sector that you one of your solutions to a cyclical business was that you Advocate profit sharing. Do you have any ideas of what we can do in both? I'm in the public sector both in private sector and public sector to deal with more adequate information at the bargaining table. So that the contract is negotiated based on a realistic Outlook of what the company are the public sector institution can live with for a two or three year period I think what is necessary as a realization. On the part of employers whether it be in a private and or (00:44:11) or public sector (00:44:13) that information is absolutely critical. If you're going to get rational results at the bargaining table, you know, (00:44:21) how do you (00:44:21) expect the workers or any other group to make Intelligent Decisions if they don't have the facts and I think this is rapidly changing an industry and I hope it would change in government and Industry, of course Chrysler. We solder because I have all the information and I can pass on in General Motors just yesterday. L warned directs vice president's charge of Labor Relations had in our net newly negotiated National Committee. This is the rank-and-file committee 13 and number will be negotiating the agreement and again, I obviously I (00:45:00) wasn't there but he laid out (00:45:02) for the National Committee as some of the remaining economic problems and competitive problems at General Motors has but companies are going to have to do and the government are going to have to come to the realization that all of the facts are going to be on table because if you don't do that, (00:45:20) you really more (00:45:21) apt to make decisions based upon economic power. Then you are economic facts. And so what you do is you get sort of instead of the power of persuasion and persuasion of power and hopefully anybody involved in collective bargaining would unless it's highly confidential would expose all of the facts that the people at their bar. (00:45:43) English (00:45:45) would you come in please on the American content Bill and wounded eventually lead to intensification of the international trade War which is a no-win situation for everyone. Well first let me say I would agree completely that I don't want to go back to smoot-hawley days and I think (00:46:08) trade very restrictive trade barriers are (00:46:11) counterproductive and let me let me make just two points. I think American business has to speak up more forcibly than they have been in the past and terms of our trade relationship with other countries, but particularly with Japan and I'm honest commission's reason I was in Japan this week and I hear testimony over and over and over from American businessmen who saying, you know, talk about non-tariff barriers to talk about discrimination. American products that we've got to get an element of fairness Into the Trade Practices and particularly United States Visa Vee and Japan on a Content legislation. It content legislation really flowed from the fact that when we were pleading with the Japanese Auto industry to put some capital in this country and they resisted and the content legislation was introduced has passed. The House of Representatives will be up in the Senate were admittedly will be a more difficult proposition and I'm not saying that the UAW is cast in cement on the on that particular legislation, but I do believe in principle that were much better off having the Japanese come here in manufacturing here and creating some jobs here than we are with the alternative (00:47:41) of quotas or Terrace. I know there's a lot of (00:47:44) objection against the car about the content legislation. But it's a proposition and that our Union is supporting and I hope it results. The perfect result would be the Japanese make a voluntary decision at the put some more capital in this country. I don't know if they'll do it. And until they do it. There's going to be a fight for the content legislation. You know, why did your comments? Excuse me on on the international movement of capital and the merits of competition under what circumstances would you Advocate import tariffs or quotas? Well see one of the problems at one of the probably it's a complex problem. Let me let me give you an example for there's there was a study recently completed by The Institute of international economics where Burton and his group Waller estimated that the u.s. Dollar is overvalued by 25% which means in effect that the United States businessman who goes into a market another country has an effect of Tariff of 25% on that product and it seems to me that's extremely unfair. I think there are situations that would call for orderly marketing agreements. I think there are situations not too many because you start down that road you get in trouble, but I think I could recite a scenario where temporary tariffs or quotas might be in order. But when you're looking (00:49:24) at International (00:49:26) Trade, we've got to look Way Beyond where we've ever looked before we just can't look at countervailing duties or any of the old eyes. We also have to look at this very very critical problem of this distorted relationship between the currencies of the world. World, you know, I couldn't remember in 79 just give you an example that it's that's not ancient history in 1979. The American people were buying large cars. It's like American people now, they're gravitating back to large cars. All the large car plants are working. Overtime. Saturday's nine ten hours a day small car plans are just about there. Not quite selling everything. There's a layoff in the GM plant in Detroit that builds small cars, but the American people are gravitating were with one of the purchase large cars. The Yen was a hundred and seventy-five to a dollar. This is 79 Nissan had a hundred and fifty thousand cars on the shores that they couldn't move. In fact as over there that time the president the sheriff of Nissan was saying you're going to have to go on short work time. Couldn't move the Toyotas. You couldn't sell the pintos or to Vegas. Of course, they're both dogs anyway, but two things were have and and we were competing with the Japanese cars. And then what happened he had the revolution in Iran as Iacocca says then the shallow left town and we lost two million barrels of oil a day in American people start lining up for gas. And he said now wait a minute. It's not only the question of price of gas is the availability gas. So they get that market just turned overnight went to small cars and that's where the me the Japanese moved in in massively and you can't turn our clients around takes years to turn it around. But you've got all of these all of these (00:51:34) factors and I (00:51:37) think at least I detect for my position on the on the commission the US Japan advisory committee. It's called there's seven on each side. I can see a change in Attitude even among the members of the United States team Dave Packard is Chairman of Julep Packard Gymboree. The chairman of BorgWarner is another member of the commission and as they listened to the testimony in the complaints in the Grievances of the American Business people. I think there's a softening of the attitude and that free trade is the answer to everything maybe it was truly free. It might be the answer but it's not truly free as too many restrictions and I tell you frankly and I could die could go into Item after item after item product after product after product. We do not have a fair trade relationship with Japan. It's an inequitable discriminatory unequal trade relationship. And so I'm no longer to the free trade pure Stern each jerk free trade cures that I once was and it's got to be an element of fairness and trade with other countries. Can I suggest one final question feeling because there's one piece of this puzzle seems to me. we haven't discussed at all today and that is about the future of the labor movement. Where you have 60 70 or more percent. Services in an economy and that's very much the situation in the United States and especially the situation in this area. How is it that the American labor movement hasn't yet? Quite deciphered how to be a successful and organizing. service Industries as it was in autos and steel and the other vertical unions and it's the iodate why I think The service Industries one of the great difficulties in organizing the workers. And so the answer is the extremely high rate of turnover. Now, I will suggest as the jobs disappear and the industrial sector the people and they'll be no place for them to gravitate to and I think you're going to get greater stability of employment in the service industry than then has been a true in a passive one other observation about the service industry and why I think that you may see the organization of the service workers and that's troubled me for a great number of years now because we have really have and have-nots in United States. I mean among union members. We happen to belong to a have Union. We've got high wages and Rich fringe benefits. And then you have another part of the American population who don't have the health benefits that we do their wages are very low and you go to other industrial democracies and is a greater measure of egalitarianism in those countries in there is in this and in our country several reasons for it. For example, take the unemployed Auto worker unemployed American worker forget the other he has the additional burden and anxiety worrying about health insurance when he's laid off. It's no concern of anybody in any democracy in the world, except the United States worker because they're covered by some government program the unions and the other countries don't negotiate s UB + programs because the unemployment compensation is sufficiently high relative to the wage. So the unions have never negotiated SUV the injured never negotiate with few exceptions private. It bites you have all these burdens on the American labor movement that it's not experienced by the labor movements around the world. (00:55:37) I anticipated a (00:55:39) wear and will have to face up to it, you know as a cost attached to it, but somehow I think we have to raise the standard of living in the purchasing power of those people that are in the service Industries because they're able to manage it in other countries. We ought to be able to manage it in our country and appoint you do that for me being on the way to doing that. I think you're going to see (00:56:04) workers in the service (00:56:05) Industries join unions in huge numbers.