When we welcome to mid-day Dan Flaherty who has been on the show several times before and energy conservation expert welcome this Gloomy Saturday to our Studios Dan. You have your own company called Energy Alternatives you teach energy audit programs and you are aware of new legislation affecting consumers and utilities and governments as much of anything changed on the rulemaking front since you were here last. Well, there are are some changes the legislature has dropped the requirement for a home energy disclosure audit when a house is bought or sold, although there are many Auditors still available to provide this type of audit the utilities provide a pretty good energy audit and in Minneapolis and st. Paul the community groups. There are several Community groups who provide energy audits. There's also some new standards for rental housing that have gone into effect this last year.Which require landlords to bring their apartment buildings up to some certain standards for certain minimum standards of insulating the walls and an accessible attic sand storm doors and storm window caulking and weather-stripping basic weatherization principles to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities. If you have a question for Dan Flaherty, or if you're listening with in Minnesota had a long-distance location from the Twin Cities call us toll-free at one 806-529-7001 800-652-9700 or 227-6000 in the Twin Cities. What exactly could I buy an apartment dweller? What kind of enforcement power does he or she have these days to see that the apartment is energy-efficient, especially if one is paying one's own utility bill.Well, this is a kind of a weak point in the program. There isn't a lot of of enforcement and the energy agency or the ocean say the division. The energy division now is giving landlords pretty good time a pretty good time allotment to to make these make these changes. So they're there are some phone numbers there for the Minnesota Energy division their information sent that tenants could call and get further information. Basically the tenant may be able to get a request an energy audit to determine the buildings compliance with the standards and then possibly send that letter to the energy division stating the non-compliance or whatever and the energy agency. Then what I understand what kind of send out a nasty letter to the landlord urging them or notifying them what the standards are and how to go about how to go about remedy the situation andWhat finance options are available? There are some financing options available through the solar solar Bank monies that were were freed up this last year. So there is some some subsidies available for landlords in certain certain part in certain cities in the state to bring their their buildings up to up to Snuff ever. The best way to start for a tenant is to call City Hall perhaps to see what they recommend doing in terms of finding money or finding the information about a program and I'm probably being passed out of the state. What was that phone number you were going to mention the energy divisions information center number in the metro area is 296-5175.And they have a toll free number for outside the metro area of one 800-652-9747. You have been described as a renaissance man in the field of Energy Efficiency. And this is the time of year to start being concerned with it. And with that in mind. Let's go to the telephones right now to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities one 800-652-9700 at a long-distance location. What's a good afternoon questions for Dan has an older two-story frame house just had the walls insulate an attic insulated last year. My furnace isn't working and old gravity feed and it's getting cold here and I'm interested in the new 96% efficiency furnaces or some of the more energy-efficient furnaces, but had heard that the 96 percenters are very very noisy.Can you confirm or deny and perhaps suggest the best system cuz I have to read docked for a house of this type. Well, the the Hydra pulse furnace. I think he's the one you're mentioning 96% efficiency. That is a a boiler. There is a another type of furnace that is available about the same percentage for for air systems. And these are not as noisy as as people may think they would just listening to One this last week over at the NSP Synergy Learning Center on near Franklin and and 2nd Avenue and they home like a like a noisy refrigerator. I guess there has been some problems in the past with people ducting the exhaust of these out the sidewalk where their neighbor's house is right adjacent and then the noise tends to reverberate between the houses.But now these are usually vented either in the front or the back of the house. And so the noise is not the not nearly as has nearly as loud as a really 96% efficient. Yes, and this is a seasonal efficiency also, so it's it is it's quite efficient. It incorporates a condenser which essentially condenses the flue gases with most furnaces do not do currently and that makes the exhaust gas anywhere between 100 and 150 degrees and these that are typically just vented out the rim joist through to the front door or back and do not require a chimney. How does that efficiency rating compared to some of the furnaces that maybe 10 or 15 years old?Well it a typical gas typical gas-fired forced-air furnace without a vent damper and a pilot light would have at bestest with call the steady-state efficiency of about 80% in a seasonal efficiency somewhere around 60% It's somewhat you can associated with like highway mileage and stop and go and so the best we usually get out over a whole season with all the aasai Colossus on our current furnace is about sixty 65% So 96 is quite an improvement take another phone call. Good afternoon when you're on the air.From what I understand from all the people I talk to air infiltration is the big issue is far as losing heat and yet the the combinations have is I believe they need to have we pull the bottom for for condensed to a water to escape rather than rotting the sill don't you defeat the purpose in a sense here by having the the weep holes there. Is there any alternatives without writing yourself? Thank you. Yes, the weep holes are are important there in the thing to remember is you want to have your Prime window your inside window as tight as possible. And so you should have that window weatherstrip as as well as possible and possibly caulking with a via clear silicone in acrylic caulk around the inside trim work all around the window. And what we find a lot is the windows are not latch properly new window latches if that window latch in the middle of the Wind.Always write it out there. I'll put some to put two new ones on one on each side of the old one and make sure that your Prime window is nice and tight. The storm window is really there to create a pretty much of a dead air space and to create some more are films and that's where it gets its R-value. It's really not meant to reduce the infiltration. Although it. It does some of that but it's meant to keep the wind away from your Prime window. So to prevent the condensation from getting out there to your storm window, make sure that inside window is is good and tight, but do leave the Wii polls open what would be an ideal relative humidity inside the house during the winter to prevent condensation is is there an ideal range X can something be done about that? Well that that varies with the outside temperature the colder it is the the less humidity in the house is is desirable theAnywhere, I guess from 30 to 40% 40% Can you be pretty high in parts of the winter? 30% is is pretty pretty normal. All right, what color is waiting at 227-6000 and we'll go to the watchline now good afternoon. Where you calling from when I finished the family room out in the basement. Unfortunately, which I sheetrocked and then paneled I neglected to insulate the basement wall. It's a concrete block wall and I'm interested now and going back and doing a job. I am trying to consider the Alternatives of number 1 touring everything out starting over inside or going to something like one or two inch foam on the outside of the wall, and I'm curious to know what time is the flirty recommendation would be on that?Well, I believe my recommendation would be to insulate on the exterior to go to dig a trench down at least two feet below grade and put 2 in of extruded polystyrene. It's not the white beadboard but it's a higher density board. And this does not absorb moisture and to put this around your around your foundation and possibly take off the bottom layer of your siding there and try to get that insulation up. So it covers the rim joist area and then put a piece of flashing underneath your bottom piece of siding bend it out over the the blue board and then add some some dirt and so they they form is covered. It will degrade in in sunlight. So you need to cover it with either dirt or some type of flashing and there are some stucco tape materials that can be smeared over the the blue board make it look very attractive on the air.I had this year for air conditioning for next summer. I buy to vent my attic. Am I better off using one of the straight attic fans a little sort of mushroom type things are going the attic to just exhaust the attic or would I be better off to install a Whole House Fan in the ceiling of my upstairs and then use that to reduce I'll hang up and listen that thank you. Well, I would first of all look at and how your attic is ventilated. You have two reasons for preventing your attic one is to to get rid of excess moisture in the winter time is the primary reason really in another is to keep it cool in the summer time, but we generally advise on natural ventilation with lower soffit Vents and ridge vents or roof vents up higher in the in the Attic the motorized blower willWill venture house at Aquia adequately in the summer, but it doesn't do much for you in the wintertime the humidistats that my control them don't work well below freezing. And so if it ends up to be a rather costly and just a seasonal kind of see Improvement the Whole House Fan that you mention is a good A good measure and it pulls are directly out of your house up to your attic. I would vent this all the way up and have a separate vent for that goes up. Although you have to be very careful to close this off and seal it off very well in the winter time or you lose tremendous amount of heat in the winter time. What do you do with those whole whole house fans? Do you run the McKnight cool the house down at night and then seal the house up during the day or well that that is a possibility. Although sometimes we need the the air conditioning there at at night too. But usually this natural flow to open up some north-facing lower windows and endedThe fan so it brings in some of this cooler air and just passes it through the house and you can run this either at night or during the day whenever it gets unbearable. Alright more colors wedding. Let's take the next one. Good afternoon insulate house at a local thing in Twin Cities. There is at Statewide. This is Statewide. It is one of the it's the energy standards and it is it is set up Statewide. I'll be that I live in a place that just leaks heat like a sieve all winter and they got me paying the heat. Well, let me give you this toll-free number again. Okay one 800-652-9747And that is the energy agency or the energy Division I should say now. And they will inform you I will send you all the information necessary. All right, thanks for calling in today 15 minutes past noon Central Time Our Guest on weekend. Today is Dan Flaherty who owns his own energy conservation Consulting business. He teaches energy audit programs and is an overall energy conservation expert I guess would be the appropriate description of your job to 276 thousand if you're listening in the Twin Cities and have a question for Dan Flaherty or one 806-529-7006 call or good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you. I have two questions, please. The first one is a bit off the track, but I'm wondering as far as are utilities such as oil and gas in this day. And how are they are they just a business or are they funded besides their state funds and government funds also my second question then. I hope I can get it centered it has to do with our dependence on existing energy sources and use of solar energy in the future and I'm sure there's a lot of philosophy that could go winning around and around because of the fact that as far as you know, the international implications of dependence on oil. However is there when the fears I have about going to solar energy is the fact that it's a solar panel is so you can't charge someone for using the sun. However, couldn't our country use a more creative approach such as leasing of panels. Thank you. Okay, I'll see if we can tackle this one first off the utilities in the state are the regulated by a Public Utilities Commission, but they are set up and their stockholders owned by privately owned companies and they are not subsidized in any way by by the government or by the state, but they are regulated as to the the rate of return that that they can get on their investment and some of the rules that as far as providing adequate amount of power. They are essentially responsible for meeting the demand and so no, they aren't they aren't subsidized but they are regulated by the Public Utilities Commission your your second question on our our our dependence. This is a very timely issue I guess I think we see our our economy tending to be very dependent upon the price of oil at the arrow. Charge us and we see that in the past are are spiraling inflation was directly related to the rising costs of of imported Fuel. And now that there that are conservation efforts are working somewhat there tends to be a temporary bubble of of excess fuel right now. And so we're not seeing the increases and therefore inflation rate is is considerably lower. It doesn't have a whole lot to do I think with that who is president at the time it's it's more than what the Arabs what they have. And so yes, I think we still are very dependent and last week. Our president said that while I go all really is not energy Independence anymore. We're going to stay dependent and this is is somewhat dismaying. I think we could have a become much more dependent much more independent by utilizing much more solar energy and by making by using the energy that we do have much more. This is really our biggest source of new energy is really conservation. If you look at how inefficiently we use energy as far as as the solar aspects, I started my business out in the solar solar industry myself and I believe that it is a cost-effective thing to do. Once your house is is totally weatherized in an insulated. It's a lot of people have really are really drawn to solar but because it is kind of glamorous and it's a nice thing but actually as far as savings conservation, I will save you the most the idea of a leasing solar panels and and I'm doing some type of creative financing like this has been tried by a number of Utilities in different areas and is working to some degree and in different parts of the country the we are seeing an of a real slow down now in solar because of the the large upfront expense the capital expenditure that that is required. Although they are there remains a 40% federal tax credit and a 20% state tax credit on solar systems up to $10,000. So if the the the best investment right now in solar is for people to preheat their their domestic hot water on special if you have an electric water heater electricity tends to be a high cost. And we need hot water year-round. And so I saw a domestic water heater can normally cost between situ and $4,000 and you can get 60% of this back as it as a tax credit lease tax credits are due to expire in a few years. So if it would be wise to to shop around and invest in a Solo domestic hot water system, if you if you're now heating your water with electricity electricity, I think in the Twin Cities area is currently about six and a half cents a kilowatt somewhere in that neighborhood. Where do you see that price going in the next 5 or 10 years? Well, I think a lot of that depends on the on what the Public Utilities Commission does as far as setting the rates are Minnesota is he is very dependent upon our nuclear plants for providing electricity. We get a large portion almost half of our electricity from nuclear and our plants are nuclear plants are due to be decommissioned essentially towards the end of the century and when that happens, we're not saving any money for that right now and it cost more to shut these plants down than it does to build them. And so at that time I I see the the cost of energy possibly going up the class electricity I think will always be a little bit ahead of some other fuels because it is a high-quality energy and we can use it for for many different things and I will always need it and we put a lot of energy into making electricity I guess and so it's always it's a pretty valuable source of energy. It's always going to cost a little bit more than our other fuels. Let's take the next one. I was wondering which type of house has the least expensive to heat. And I was also wondering which time which type of house is the least expensive to build now. I'll hang up and listen to your answer. Okay. Well there was an interesting study that is being looked at from around the country that was done here. This this last few years on various passes and super insulated designs and it was very interesting to note that the houses that used the least amount of energy of the whole program. Was it essentially a passive solar house with Sir with super insulated with with passive but it was a house where the the homeowners got involved and actively used an interior shutter system to prevent heat loss at night. There's a Windows Through the Windows the house that use the most energy in the program was also a passive house in which there were was not night time insulation. And so the outcome of that was to a great degree that super insulation once it's in place is it is a very nice way to go. Don't have the problems with having to deal with the shutters and condensation on Windows when you when you have Shutters on the inside of your house and this type of type of thing, but I think there is a a real good combination impassive and super insulation if people are willing to look at that at that he lost at night passive designs in this country in this part of the country really need night time insulation in order to work as far as your your question about the cost to a building. I'll probably the super insulated house. Now it may cost at two or three thousand more to build but definitely shows a good pay back the passive house. Well, I guess I wouldn't build a passive house without making a lot of super insulation features essentially low air changes per hour and making it very tight. But there's a certain amount of thermal mass that has to be involved in building a passive house so that it doesn't overheat and has some thermal retention capabilities. So I would go with the super insulation most of the vocational schools now are teaching their students in the carpentry classes how to build super insulated houses and this technology is being pioneered but Minnesota is is way ahead of the game. I think in building super insulated houses. There are designs available from the energy agency and from some of the utility on how to build super insulated houses and it is the the TV technology. I guess we're moving away from past some of the big pasture systems because of some of the problems in the excessive heat loss is that we've seen that was my next follow-up question. There are more and more people going out there talking to contractors. Are they being laughed at less when they approach a contractor and say I want to build in some Energy Efficiency into this house are there fewer contractors out there making little comments behind backs? No, I I think the contractors are getting on the bandwagon as fast as they can and Realizing that that they will they have to provide what the customer wants and right now the customer wants Energy Efficiency and we are trying to the people in in my feelings trying to make people more aware of some of the Energy Efficiency standards and the one that is probably the most important is how tight is the house how many air changes per hour does a house does the final product end up with and there are blower door test now to test these vinyl designs and two to show you exactly how many air changes per hour. There are all the super inflated designs when they are really tight usually have to have what's called an air to air heat exchanger to keep the quality of air on the inside up to good standards. Okay. We've got many more colors wedding. Let's take another one. Good afternoon. You're on the air. Directions to Point is there a solar cell pool take type shingle or something else could be applied to a 10 to 15 square area on a roof. Well a solar shingle type thing. There are some companies who are looking at photovoltaic systems incorporating them which would generate a certain amount of electricity right. Now. These are are very costly and you're looking 30 $40,000 for something like this to provide a relatively small amount of electricity really as I as I mentioned before the the 10 by 15 area that you're talking about would probably very well accommodate a solar domestic hot water heating system which may cost as I mentioned between 2 and $4,000 somewhere in that area and that would is probably the best investment and so lit right now. Okay, st. Paul and so far we've received offers for energy audits from a lot of different places and SP and The local community group have offered to do audits for $10. And we've also lost we get called almost every week from I think it's a contractor's offering to do a free audit. Is there any difference in these and which which audit should we accept? Well, I I think the the audit that is provided by The Neighbourhood energy groups in St. Paul is a is a is a very good at it and they have it's an impartial audit. They are under contract essentially from the utilities who are required to provide these Audits and so the utilities in some cases subcontracting thought I thought to the neighborhood energy groups and these energy Auditors are trained in all the different aspects of of energy conservation and we'll give you a unbiased View and essentially help you prioritize what you need to do. They're going to evaluate the cost and paybacks for a number of items and then show you which would save you the most money and which will have the best pay back the contractors at that are offering a free energy audit will often look at the particular thing that they are selling Weatherby storm windows are attic insulation or or whatever and evaluate that For you and give you a bid on that and somewhat down play some of the other things that need to be done. And so it is confusing for many homeowners to to have these contractors come in and and tell him different things. So I would again recommend the community-based energy auditor as is giving a pretty in partial and partial Viewpoint. They also give a list of contractors who are qualified essentially to to provide the services and then it should be the homeowner who calls up the contractors and say hey, I would like you to come out and give me a bid on this item of this item that my auditor is said that she was a real big payback 29 and 1/2 minutes now past noon Central time or gas today on weekend and flirty and energy expert sticker next call. Good afternoon. You're on the air. If they have what were they? Got a number to choose from yes, and it seems to be immune issue this year compared of Lee from from other years and I can't really say that I have heard statements directly related to energy and I think it's it should be an issue. I think we should ask this of our candidates when we see our gross national product and our balance of balance of payments being so drastically affected by the money that we are sending overseas. I think it is a threat to our national security. We've heard I'm a secretary of state in the past saying that he would not hesitate to to go to war to protect our interests so called and in the Far East and it wouldn't want to see yes, I dragged into something like that when we could become more efficient right here and we don't really need that for a while if we utilize the resources we have here with the most efficiency, so I I guess I would look for that and write the different candidates and ask him for position papers and they will respond to what the what the public wants but no, I I guess I haven't heard statements. All right, we have a line open in the Twin Cities at 2 to 7. $6,000 Watts line is open at one 800-652-9700. Let's take another call or good afternoon. Yes. I have two questions. First of all, what was the name of the system for water that has a $0.90 96% efficiency? And where is it located in Twin Cities? Where can we get it also? Cipro for heat and comes back into the house. And what's the fuse go out? The chimney is that is good as they say. Okay, you're too two questions hear the 96% boiler that I was talking about. There are a number of them that the one that's typically referred to as the Hydra pulse the Minneapolis energy office. There is a program there and they will send out information on all the various types of furnaces and boilers and they have a phone number also hear that I'll pass along to you 348-6829 and this is in City Hall in Minneapolis. And they also have a loan program 10% interest rates to help people install the art your high efficiency furnaces. Your second question is about to be an add-on essentially a condensing unit and it can be attached to a furnace and it will take the flue gases and essentially condensed out the So the moisture in that process a lot of heat is released to the to the house and if you have a relatively new furnace five or six years old that was not the high efficiency type adding on this type of unit. Make sure make sure I could pay back then I would I would look at the the variety of things are on the market and talk to the Indianapolis energy office and they have some experience in in financing a number of these in our are watching to see what works and what doesn't work. Okay, let's take our next lesson or good afternoon to have a furnace question. I am in an older home with an old converted gravity Furnace from coal-to-gas and I know eventually that's going to need replacement and my question is in a situation like this where you're essentially starting from Ground Zero. Could you please compare the overall cost? Forced air vs. Hot water heating when including both the cost of installation by the contractor. In addition to the cost of the equipment and also the cost of running the system not just the gas but the electricity used for the fan or pump. Is it depending on the kind of fur all together overall? What do you think would be the best bet the if there was no other reason to pick one or the other if it was just the times up in that way. Thank you. Well, I would first look at at your distribution system that you already have in your house. And in the ducting that is already there when switching over from a gravity flow to a forest are there off and is quite a bit of additional ducting that has to be added but it does not I don't believe match up to the cost of putting in a hydronic system in and adding the radiators and this type of the the benefits the cost of a running each operation a pretty similar the efficiencies involved are are pretty similar. A lot of people will go with a forced air system because of the fact that they are able to add air conditioning which you can't do with a liquid system are hydronic system the cost of running the blower versus a is a little bit more to run the blower than the pump but the lower-cost there is in the installation would be something concerned I would Look at getting a couple bids from different contractors and seeing how much it would cost either way. It may not really be the best time to buy a furnace right now. If your furnace will make it through another another heating season, I would clean it up and in tune it up and keep it as clean as possible and especially with gravity gravity air systems cleaning out the duct work as much as possible the return air grilles and the outlets keeping those has as free of dust as possible is is the one thing to do and then I would in in the spring when the heating contractors are not quite so busy, you have some people come out and give you bids on the on the various various systems so far today, we've been talking about fairly major improvements to improve Energy Efficiency lot of people out there. Of course, you don't need in the major improvements or they can't afford them. Are there some lower-cost alternative. I've seen a lot of these little gaskets for example to put behind light switches. Wall receptacles or some of the film that you put on your windows and you shrink it down tight does do any of these lot low-cost alternative help at all. They're probably the most cost-effective thing that you can do as far as the interior shrink films that are available. They are a very good option. If you don't have to open your window during the winter and they go on and they provide a nice tight seal on the inside again, and that's where you wanted to prevent that moisture from getting out their internal caulking around the baseboard of your house around the maybe you trim board between your ceiling and where the wall meets. There are some some nice clear Cox that go on there and the internal caulking is is very important keeps the the air and the moisture out of your wall rental from from condensing inside your insulation. The other the other major he lost and and something that can be easily stopped or something called the bypass and this is usually a cavity that is usually found around your sewer stack that goes from the basement up through the wall and into the attic and one of these Frosty mornings where you're the other morning was a nice one where we had a little bit of frost a little bit of snow in this area driving down the road. I could spot these bypasses fairly easily and go out and look at your house on these mornings and see if there are spots or melted away before other areas are and especially around the sewer stack and then go up in your attic and look a look at these areas and see if there is a a cavity between there and it's a good place to to press some Roll-Ups and fiberglass insulation and jam it in there good and tight, maybe put some classic down first so that it will be sure to stop the airflow around your furnace vent where your fern It was up to the wall putting a piece of sheet metal around this around the chimney and fastening at the end to the framing members to stop that air flow from from going up in the attic. That's a real good but stopping these bypasses is probably the single most thing that's the least expensive that will have an effect on your on the energy bill your next call or good afternoon. Where are you calling from? And what's your question usually in the evening in significant amounts. I'm wondering if putting a timer on it and having the same switch on in the late afternoon and off again say about 10 with save me any money. Oh, yes, it would the you've done that the correct thing to start out with O to insulate your water heater the water heater jackets that are available to show a very good pay back in the water heater timers. It hasn't been documented real well and how much they save if you're planning on leaving your house for a number of years. They they tend to look for a very good and it may take for 5 years for that to pay back for itself. But I believe you will see a payback. It does reduce the potential of the temperature difference there between the inside of the water heater urine in your out your outer areas six specially important for water heaters in a somewhat. I'm conditioned space won't save you as much if your house is in a warm basement or in your condition space, but it is a good idea. Okay sticker next call a good afternoon. I'm calling from Saint Paul. I have a question. I wonder if you could give any opinion or recommendation on fireplace insert, and if so, what kind of costume I thought I'd be looking at all so I would I have to change anything on the chimney. Thanks. Okay, a fireplace insert is essentially a an airtight metal stole that inserts into the into the fireplace. And this has a real advantage in that if you can control the amount of air that said to the fire and put it in the into the in the proper place a typical fireplaces is very inefficient, even with glass doors. It does not usually burn the the wood gas or that that the gas is that come off because it's not at a high enough temperature. And so you tended to build up creosote and that creosote has a lot of energy and and can cause fires once you do get your your stove and chimney hot enough to burn. So I think it is a real wise thing to do to put in an insert. They are bringing your efficiency of your fireplace. Up considerably the thing you may have to do with your chimney you need what's call the class A chimney usually a tile line chimney or in an old brick chimney. If there is no liner, you could put down a stainless steel liner inside of that to make it a Class A chimney. You want to make sure that you do keep it clean and I would also look at some way providing some combustion air for your for your fireplace if your house is is pretty tight and buskin there from the outside and the the the cost of this can be fairly substantial these to get a good insert that is airtight and has tight-fitting doors would cost you anywhere from every 500 to $1,000. Okay? Took the next listener. Good afternoon. Where are you calling from? Well, if you have a very high ceiling and especially saying that you like a gravity flow situation when you don't have a furnace fan moving the air around your house, then they they will show they will add to your comfort level that will bring some of the air down from especially if you have like a cathedral ceiling bring it down. So we're where the people are living warm air does tend to to rise up and stratified someone if you would want to take some temperature measurements and put a thermometer on your floor and I'll put your ceiling and if you have about a 15 degree temperature difference or so, then a ceiling fan of will bring that Comfort level down and we'll save you some money. But the the thing to remember also is the heat is going to go out of that out of that ceiling because the hot air is up there. So you need an insulated ceiling first off. I think a basic principle that that people need to to think about is You only really need to put enough energy into a house to match what is lost out of it? And so people tend to worry about the inputs more than the outputs. And if you reduce the the output that is is the major thing. So I will look and see if you have this temperature difference and if your floors are are relatively cool and there's a lot of heat building up in the upper part of a high high attic ceiling fan will add Comfort there an acceptable AR level. Is there a standard AR level for resistance and insulation in ceilings for new homes in Minnesota are standard for that now welded the standard that the auditor and energy auditor would recommend is is having the insulation up to an AR level of 44 which is 10 12 14 inches of insulation depending upon what type of insulation to use the the building code standards are somewhat Less in this and the building codes are not uniform across but you will see a they pay back and it is economic to put in up to our 44 in in an attic. Okay, good afternoon. You're on the air. How will I have a problem with condensation? I have a 1in urethane Emily rata de point three and I want to add 6 inches of fiberglass on the inside of that and of course the sheetrock. Is this in your wall? And your your thing is on the you may have a moisture problem is it theoretically it would sound like it like you should but they have taken apart a lot of these walls and not really found how much more moisture problem the thing to the really remember in and retrofitting your wall. This way is to put a real tight Vapor Barrier on the inside of your wall and to foam all of the little areas where the plumbing in trees come in or the electrical wiring goes in the wall to squirt some foam around each one of these make these nice and tight and Tube to put an ice type Vapor Barrier for your electrical boxes are to put little foam gaskets on those and in some houses where you aren't taking apart the wall. There are some Vapor Barrier paints that are available where you can paint a vapor barrier on the inside by now. Wallpaper on the inside also constitutes a Good Vapor Barrier and keep that insulation dry. So I would be primarily concerned. I would go ahead with your retrofit. But make sure you have a good tight ceiling Vapor Barrier on the interior and flirty a question or two. Let's take the next one. Good afternoon. I think you have to give credit to the prison Administration for having accelerate of the deregulation of competition in the marketplace. We have public television public radio. Give us very good business program anytime. I believe that we have those of us who would like to see natural gas follow the same route that eventually it will certainly do what oil has done because there is a competition at the end of the line in which some people to get the wrong idea that it There's no competition competition takes place in the Gadsden purchase to be put through that line and then to him talkin about the cool feels that he was trying to get developed Because he believes we should be energy independent and he was following Reagan's Vice Jesse's School field into working order and he thought the case of a disaster in the Middle East if we should have paid more attention, we might be a lot better off and I think the get to get some credit to this Administration for the things that are well, I guess the the comment about the the number of oil wells that have been drilled his is true. But our production still is not up to what it was. Our production is piqued long before that, even though our oil wells are our drooling a lot. Again, it's the supply-side I guess looking for more is is I don't see as the solution dealing with what we have in a in a more efficient way. I totally fission C is in this country of the amount of heat that we get out of our fuel is is very poor compared to other countries. So the I think we need to to look at where it's going and and not so much. I don't believe the the problem is necessarily just increasing their the solution is Nessa increasing the supply all of these things are a finite resource. We only have a certain amount of it and the I don't personally believe that the answer is just to to get more I think we need to be very efficient with what we do have I would go along with the fact that we can become efficient that we can become self-sufficient, but it it needs a mix of policy I guess. We need I believe in in the the deregulation with a very strong concern though of the people who are affected by this deregulation the very most it can happen very fast. And those people who are are willing to or have the capability to weatherize and modify their houses to the point where they can absorb those does drastic increases ROK those of us who are not or are pretty what are are caught here. And so I think efa's deregulation which was not necessarily this administration's policy to start out with it's been in the works for a long time and it was a policy that this entire Administration inherited and decide to go along with so I think a lot of it is really less political than we would like it to make it but it is it is a very vital issue and I think we need to to keep Focus on where is the energy going in our house and how efficiently are we dealing with what we have and not be just totally blinded as to getting more getting more is not going to be the solution if we wasted the way we have been 10 minutes before one more colors waiting to take the next one. Good afternoon. Hello, I'd like to ask you a quick questions for one. What are some good books are booklets on super insulation that I could hear send for a low-cost or get from the library. And the second question. Is that with a large old home? Is it possible to cost-effectively bring that up to a level of that you would call a super insulated? Thank you much. There has been there are a couple books out on super insulation a couple of them from Canada one is Conley super insulated retrofit Book Soup and side retrofit and I have seen this in a book stores locally here. The other thing is there are I know the one of the community groups over in st. Paul has super insulated super insulated retrofitted a house over there and has had an open house never some publicity. that earlier on this this year and you could probably get some more information from that and talking to the simple Energy Resource Center over in St. Paul. I don't have their number here right in front of me, but they are doing that the cost Effectiveness cost effectiveness of this is somewhat in question right now there it's been going on in Canada. This is what we're learning a lot of lessons from and a contract is up there will will they are quoting bids a $5 a square foot. And this is a square foot of the Waller of your house your wall area and your roof area so you can add that up and he gets to be a very costly item but it's a lot depends on how long you're planning on living in your house how fast you expect people to rise and there are many variables involved and the the Comfort level of your house is also something something to consider. So there is information available. There are some different things going on in this area. There are some projects that have been going on and in there some some other people who have some information for you. So if you're over in Saint Paul, The energy resource center. There will be further inform you. Okay next caller. Good afternoon. There seems to be a according to last Monday's Minneapolis Star and Tribune article in that paper reporter indicated that there was a sharp difference of opinion amongst local heating contractors as to devise ability of purchasing one of these high-efficiency heating plants, if you have a system that's working at this point. I'm wondering what you feel about that. Well, I I guess I would tend to agree the new high-efficiency furnaces have been out for a few years and they do condense the flue gas inside the the heat exchanger and the condensate is highly corrosive. And so you need a high quality stainless steel heat exchanger are there hasn't been a real long track record of these furnaces and as noted in that article, which I have in front of me. Also, the people are not really sure what's going to break down first. What kind of repairs they're going to look at and the competition in that industry. He is really warming up. There are many more manufacturers this year. And so I I would and I advise people to to first off weatherize their house and insulate their house first off in the bushes are furnace is running running well because 441 basic reason Is that your heat loss of your house will be drastically reduced after you insulate and so you'll need a much smaller furnace than what you originally have. And a lot of our furnaces are oversized right now and that tends to drop that seasonal efficiency. Also, they don't run very long. And so they have a lot of losses lot of off cycle losses. So I guess my advice would be to weatherize your house. Look at the market and clean your furnace is as well as you can change your filter every 30 to 60 days. Make sure you clean out your ductwork in your grills and things like this and if your system is running well keep it for a year or so weatherize your house and then you will be able to have your your new furnace later on which should cost less besides properly size to match the output of the house. Okay. Let's try to get two or three more questions and good afternoon your on the year. I have a 10/6 by 11 6 unfinished room that is now lying about ceiling and walls with craft paper covered rockwool insulation blanket to the studying and we have plan to apply r19 fiberglass insulation on top of that should be insulation that says now installed and what do we cover the rockwool insulation with foil or plastic? Okay, I would with your existing there. What is in the wall? I would either slipped it the vapor barrier that's on that the craft backing there too. So that you won't get moisture trapped in there. You always want to have your Vapor Barrier on the warm side of the insulation. So either removing that craft paper or if if that would result in all of this your Rockwell coming up. Splitting that Vapor are several times then adding your fiberglass on the inside of that as you're mentioning and then putting some for 6 mil Poly on the inside of that some plastic sheeting and making sure that the seams overlap by at least one stud cavity and ceiling that very well and then installing your your sheetrock on the interior surface. And again making very taking a lot of care around your electrical outlets in in openings to prevent favor from from getting into the wall comments to make I'm calling from White Bear and a little bit of practical experience. I live in super insulated Passover house, and we've been living here for about a year-and-a-half now, And even very very happy with the super until Asian, you know think that's the way to go if anyone's building a house secondly on the pat on the passive solar. It's I guess you found it not as pleasing as we as we had hoped if something were you actively participate in raising and lowering the insulated window coverings in dub? Indian beautiful days in the sun shining it's great in the family room, but on days like this, you don't have that warm feeling our storage mass at the floor. It's a stone floor in that field called NAT type of things. We haven't been overly pleased with the passholder, but we've been very happy with the superest insulation. I would concur with that. Okay. Thanks for calling in the day and just to touch on the subject once more. This is the time of year to get the food first tuned up. Is is this a good time of year to do that? Yes, it is cleaning the filters if you have a and also the fan the blower fan shut off your furnace and get in there with a wire brush on a vacuum cleaner and clean out that blower fan off and find out a lot of dirt that's are cleaning vacuuming out your registers. If you have a liquid system making sure that you have an expansion tank that the expansion tank has got some errands and bleed your radiators and check for any leaks leaks into a car out of a hydraulic system. You have to add water continually and when you're adding water to add more minerals and are so you want to make sure all those leaks are are sealed up tight and you have some Aaron expansion tank. So when the heat does when the water does expand is heated it won't block your pressure relief valve. It will let the tickets are in the tank will compress allowing for that expansion probably good advice because the rain that is now falling outside or Studio windows. In a few weeks, we'll probably be snow unfortunately soon. Thank you for coming in today energy x / Dan Flaherty.