For 17 years Dave Grohl has been president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO umbrella organization that speaks for collective bargaining in Minnesota spokes route for 700 unions and councils representing over 200,000 workers in Minnesota born in 1924. Deyro is a native of Minnesota. He's a graduate of the Minneapolis public school system and he served in the Navy from 1942 through 1946. You work for the Minneapolis Building Trades Council for 13 years followed by other duties, then finally in 1966. He became president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO day bro is married and the father of three daughters and grandfather to nine children. We bid you. Good afternoon and welcome you nice to have you along with us on this Labor Day weekend because it's an obvious opportunity to have you comment on labor issues, but I guess Dave first of all since everyone else has had a chance to comment on the Downing of the Korean airliner so we should give you a chance toAn interesting to me to observe how it appears the two superpowers the Soviets in the United States are paralyzed in this in this tragedy that they're almost unable to react. I think it points out very dramatically the the value that the Soviet Union places on human rights and obviously in this case human human life. This was a dastardly act and I think the all the workers in the people of this country and those of the Free World and the third world are requesting the car say and demanding an answer from the Soviet Union and I think all of us are are waiting for that the very very strong but appropriate action that we think is is appropriate at this time. We're getting real mixed signals from leaders in many parts of the worlds on sanctions should be applied.Specifically already a few minnesotans have said no a grain embargo wouldn't be a good idea of what do you think about that now? That might be that might be true. I'm not so sure that I'm On My Level that I am not privy to the information. That's the necessary to know to make that decision, but that there are people who are and there are many of us waiting for that for that action is I indicated that should be very very strong and inappropriate. I think the Soviet Union has already lost a tremendous across your credibility not only in the in the Free World, but also and I'm sure some of their allies Daypro president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO. He's with us live in the Twin Cities and you may call with your questions if you'd like to talk with Dave Rowe about organized labor on this Labor Day weekend in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand.276 thousand letters outside the Twin Cities area with in Minnesota can call us toll-free no charge if you call one 800-652-9700. That's a toll-free. Number one 800-652-9700. If you're listening in Canada or neighboring states call us directed area code 612-227-6000 what your assessment of the health of organized labor in the United States based on several facts. I guess he's organized labor healthy or unhealthy based on the number of members these days. Well, I think the labor movement is healthy is still a viable organization. The economy is far from what do I have to be out of there are still a proximately 15 million people Nationwide who are unemployed who are under employee. There are more than 200,000 people and they estate.Minnesota who are unemployed under-employed. So consequently the economy is far from what I got today and consequently when we're going through this particular. The members that we we have our are down in the number of various. But basically I think we're still we're still healthy and what we need does a resounding recovery in the in the economy. What should we make of these news reports occasional news reports that we hear of desertification votes here and there across the United States men and women who had a formed collective bargaining unit and then up. We are news report occasionally of a boat being taken to disband that unit for one reason or another what though the background. Can you give us in those reports? I don't believe there are probably anymore percentage-wise any more of the certifications today than I have been over the over the years. I think there are those are cars.Would like to to emphasize that was at this particular particular time to take advantage of the economic conditions that exist in our adversaries are are there of the National Association of Manufacturers u.s. Chamber of Commerce and National Right to Work committee and consequently because of you cannot make ahead conditions are taking advantage of that the numbers of workers coming into the workforce. Of course, probably outstrip for those were coming in today to the organized labor movement.We have a caller on the line with the question were talking with Dave Grohl president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO. If you'd like to call with your question in the Twin Cities, you can call us at 227-6002 to 76000 Ardell free line is open as well. For those of you outside the Twin Cities living with in Minnesota. No charge if you call one 800-652-9700 will take the first caller. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question.From Adrian Minnesota. I hope he can keep on doing what he has that little concerned about his is adamant response to the Russian thing now granted it was a bad problem sitting down on the Russian. But how would he respond to the American industry the point of decision the rocky decision with the door's not correcting the Corvette the asbestos problem letting it go on Ancient Orange. And then wolf American industry moving all of their production overseas and going along with $0.13 or $0.13 per hour wages overseas. How can we condemn directions to Bonnie for this and then sit by idly by and let American Dad makes decisions that kill many more people than what we have seen the Russian to do in this past week. Well, number one number one that the labor movement is not sitting idly back that we are resisting and our voice is being heard in the areas that you referred to that. One of the things that has concerned us as the matter of a VAR technology being exported the best equipment that we have in this country being exported to foreign countries in and those goods coming back to compete with our workers in this in this country. The environment is important to us. All of those safety things are important. I think the other thing we need to separate those I think from what happened here just a couple of days ago and the Russian shot down in an airplane with 269 innocent people aboard. I think they are two distinct different problems. We have Dave Rowland rstudio the president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO. If you have a question would like to call with your question. Call us at 227-6000 in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand listeners outside the Twin Cities within Minnesota can call toll free no charge at one 800-652-9700 and we have a caller on the line or just getting that person ready to go on right now. Good afternoon or listening for your question. We on next go ahead. We're listening for your question. Andre cancer plane having shut down this says Korean liner. What kind of possible strong action does he Envision which wouldn't put us all in danger of a nuclear war. Well, I think that I don't have a privy to the information that is necessary to to make the kind of decision that you know that I'd like to add to make all of these things are course are very very important. We don't want a nuclear war and that we don't think that's going to trigger a nuclear war by the same token. I'm not so sure that we can just sit back and say oh my gosh, that's too bad that happened don't do it again and then go about business as as usual. We can't permit that to We Can't permit that to happen Dave Governor. Perfect his traveling in Europe. He just came from the Soviet Union and he says the Downing of the jetliner is probably derailed our efforts to open an ETrade doors with the Soviet Union Governor perfect should be a feller is taking a fair amount of heat from Republicans, especially Jim ueland. That the governor of the state of Minnesota shouldn't be traveling around the country around the world that he should be staying at home trying to better business conditions here in Minnesota. What's your what's your view on giving her purpose his efforts to try to improve international trade relations and bring business to Minnesota Wild. Number one. There's a there's a big job to be down here in the state of Minnesota. And I think that the governor has devoted time to tell that he indicated when he was running for the governor of this state that one of the things you like to do. If it's a problem. I have to go abroad and look at those foreign markets with respect to manufacturing them and also keep in mind that Minnesota has a heavy agricultural state are there markets are there additional markets that weekend? I find overseas. So this is no secret. On the table and indicated that he was going to do this now. He's taking two and a half or three weeks to receive. I think it's constructive. I think that anything that we can do to to increase business abroad for for exports is a is a positive thing and good for the state of Minnesota and it was good for the state. Of course. It has to be good for us. What do you think are European investors going to be encouraged or put off by the labor climate in Minnesota is they think about investment in this state? Whether it be Pete or almost any other activity while I think that the state of Minnesota is it is an excellent place someplace to eat to live to work at to have a have to have a business that if you look around us and Minneapolis and st. Paul and then throughout the state. I think that you're seeing that the number of foreign investors of come into the Minnesota nfaa if they are why they are doing it for a positive for a positive purpose. So I think that the lot of that has been going on over the last couple of years and several months I think now is starting to fall on deaf ears and number of people are beginning to realize that this has been read Rick them and those things aren't so that Minnesota is a good place and it's kind of refreshing occasionally to have to see these people, and to hear some positive things about the state of Minnesota because it's just a great place. We have callers waiting with their questions for Dave Rowe president of the Minnesota. AFL-CIO will take the next one. Good afternoon. We're listening to know where Steve would comment on bee removal. United States to Southeast Asia American manufacturing concern the fact that some of these governments have rather unstable government does this represent? Oh, I'm sure that there's no no question about that. But if they the risk basically isn't the thing that's in the Forefront of these large corporations when they leave the Continental limits of the United States just plain pure profit their profit can be increased the wages. Of course. I just a pittance of what their pain here tax concessions and for the most part one of the reasons for the unemployment in this country yet today particularly in in manufacturing is the fact that the larger the number of these large corporations have gone to it to Asia. They're gone to Japan. They've gone to to Europe. They've gone to South America to a number of countries and I've exported the high-tech. LG the best equipment and consequently the workers and and the consumers and the the taxpayers and the elderly and the young and minorities are are paying a very very heavy price for that today in this country with other colors with questions will get to the next one. Good afternoon. Where you calling from? Listening us some girl was talking about the jetliner being shot down and and I've heard a lot other people talking about it. I have a kind of a question for mr. Roll. There's a we've had abortions in United States going on for 10 years and killed over a million innocent and I mean innocent babies every year just a little over a million and there's no outcry about this. There's no mention of it in this place has isn't this going to affect his labor organization. When you figure we have right now, they figure we've killed 14 million consumers. On the American scene of 14 million people from Bright Now that would be from H1 to 10 and they're sure consumers. All right, we'll add a row take a crack at answering that just very very simply the labor movement is made up of all people with very had diverse thoughts. And without question. There are number of our members who are concerned with the with the with the abortion issue. Those are pro-life those who are pro-choice are those who are still attempting to tell why how to make up their their minds but that's not an issue that has been before the labor Movement. We haven't allowed that to come so that's it would be a divisive thing. And then again, I think that's a single-issue political thing that says set aside and I would hope that we wouldn't associate that again with what happened two days ago with a Downing of that. Airliner with other colors with questions will get to the next one. Good afternoon day bro is listening. He has his phone business. My question is regarding to the process of evaluation that the organization would go through in response to the Soviet sub murder of the people on this Airline you seem to be attracting a healthy American Horror of industrial problems that we have to deal with it as a work movement in the United States and that of nuclear war that we should say temperature or not do anything simply because we fear of things like this. And I'm just wondering how you evaluate your response and help guide the process of evaluation. So that's it. We're not taking in moving is not taken in by people who are apparently Somewhat soft hearted on people who have no respect for the American working man that they would that shoots shooting out of the sky. Well, thank you. This is not a simple matter and it's not the one that can have a simple simple answer and as I indicated that there are those who are in a better position than than I am. I'm sure that President Kirkland the president of the at the national AFL-CIO with an a. Of time will be able to respond for the the workers of this country. At least those that are affiliated with the AFL-CIO. This is a national matter and I'm not so sure that would be constructive for for me to to state a particular personal position from from myself when Mr. Kirkland. Donahue the secretary-treasurer of the AFL-CIO are in a better position and will have an answer that be Bobby much more appropriate than when I could get other colors waiting will get to the next question or right now good afternoon day bro was listening decade probably saves Americans jobs by our buying products made in the United States and other countries developing countries are paid so little for their labor and so we get inexpensive materials from those countries rather than paying higher prices here, which are then passed on to the producer that the workers. I'm wondering if that kind of concerned for the workers in developing nations has become a part of the concerns of Labor movements here. Oh sure. I certainly have that that that it's to our advantage. Of course to have the economy economic and the social life of the third world countries in and others to be to be increase their standard the should and it must be one of the problems of course is the subsidy that the foreign countries many times give to their companies that Japan is a good example where all of their Industries heavy Industries is a subsidized by the by the government and one of the reasons, of course that they can do that. So successful at least in the high in Japan is the fact that this country is is subsidizing and in turn they the other military of Japan Consequently, of course, we don't want the Japan turned into another military might but by the same token that this country has to subsidize that effort by 84 ready 5% which of course is very expensive to to us and they vary as if it's a windfall to Japan which allows them to have subsidized the workers subsidized the plan subsidized the the the businesses in that country at our expense. It's it's not very constructive, but at least two words of the other workers of this country. They have you made clear to me before we went on the air. That's the Minnesota. AFL-CIO was a strong supporter of the by Minnesota statute, which is in effect and that statute some people have argued to Simply going to hurt the state it certainly is going to save the state money. They had said because in some cases to buy Minnesota statute will mean it will be buying higher price Goods then we might otherwise Able to get well we have to go back a little history. We have to go back about two years might be closer to 3 years a lot of this started corset back in Congress many years ago, but they they had the thing that we looked at was the arrowhead bridge in Duluth superior, where here was a multi-million-dollar bridge and that the center span which was about six or seven million dollars was brought in here from Japan Duluth area course heavily covered by steelworkers by by minors by construction workers. And at that time we didn't think it was in the best interest of this state or the state of Wisconsin to continue to use foreign steel shows figures as an example where I'm at 6 million dollar Center spam because of it was it was manufactured in processed in Japan fabricated in Japan and where there was a savings of approximately $500,000 because of that that particular process this state and federal government lost true that over a million and a half dollars in taxes and things that could have been used for services with in this country. So we thought that was a bad deal. So that was the past now we moved into this last session and that we'd like to have that buy America expanded. Through the municipalities for the University State University system and also to implode by Minnesota two things happened number one, they struck out the municipality. So now it just involves the the state government that includes the State University and the university system. And they also made some some changes with regards to the manufacturing and you have to keep in mind that that if it's manufactured and whole and part in Minnesota are in the United States that qualifies within the within the state of Minnesota at with respect to construction course, there is very clearly a 10% differential it also indicates that they can't subcontractor for any more than 20% of the other workers this again on Public Public Works. We think as long as we have taxpayers in this state of Minnesota that we had to do whatever we can to make sure that those taxpayers are hired on Public public project law automatically repeals and little better than a than a year. We know that the cars are going to be some flaws and some problems with it. We haven't heard any serious ones at this point. Cedar Point, so we're hoping that we can wait until June 30th of 1985 when that does automatically repeal and we'll see just how the laws worked with collars waiting with questions will get to the next one. Good afternoon. Where are you calling from? and your question mark that was killed in Washington. I heard on all things considered that approximately one-third of his smart was financed by unions. I'm wondering if our gas couldn't comment on Minnesota Union contributions and in the light of the many problems that unemployed people are experiencing how they can be such a priority item and thank you very much. Well, the first March we had was 1981. And at that time this was solidarity day 1 the labor movement a coalition of women elderly minority groups and others all went to Washington and the estimates are between four and five hundred thousand people participated and and and calling attention to the to the people of this country calling attention to the Congress of United States sent to be the president that that Sherry is staying serious. He cannot make things are happening to the people of this company for this country that you can all make him social fiber of this. This country is is beginning to become a shattered two weeks ago. They there was the the March commemorating the 20th anniversary of the first Civil Rights march in 1963. How many people from Minnesota were there many Trade union is from the state of Minnesota. Where were there we felt it was in our best interest again to proceed and participate in this in this March that we made it possible through individual contributions and contributions from some local unions to send two busloads of trade unionists to to Washington to participate along with the number of other buses that were sponsored by the Urban League the nwacp and other minority black groups within the metropolitan area and we think it was a wise investment. It wasn't that much that much money, but I think that the fact that we were were there was an indication that we're concerned that the fight for jobs for civil rights equal rights human rights, never never And we think that we would be would not be doing our duty to our duty to our members enter Society. If we didn't participate in such an event the time is 12:30. You're listening to Dave Rowe who's the president of the Minnesota AFL-CIO we have other callers on the lines with a couple of lines open now to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities. If you have a question for Dave Grohl to 276 thousand listeners outside the Twin Cities within Minnesota can call for free no charge if you dial one 800-652-9700 will take the next question are right now, good afternoon. We're listening on the Creator airliner incident and I'm wondering if your approach in fact isn't a very dangerous one for us and potato. I'm concerned by your refusal to consider this incident at all from the Soviet perspective. I'd like to read to you just a very brief brief quote from the New York Times yesterday on this is a quote by George Keegan of former Chief of the Air Force intelligence and I'm quoting from him. Now. He says I've never failed to be surprised at how careless the Koreans are despite the risks of flying your Soviet airspace. Despite all that the Soviets had their the Koreans continue to fly to close the Koreans continued to bruise the Soviets on this what happened today, they invited they should have flown much further away over Japanese airspace. I'm wondering if you think there's any Merit and what this retired General has to say and if the facts looking at it from the Soviet point of view as his General that is not a very useful exercise for us and please answer directly. I scare you doing a lot of sidestepping might want to do any side Steppin but I think that's Secretary of State Schultz said it very very well that there is no excuse. No, excuse for the shooting down of an unarmed commercial plane with 269 innocent people aboard and I can just repeat what I said. That is. I hope that there's going to be some strong and appropriate action taken like we have other colors on the line with questions for Dave roll will get to the next one. Good afternoon. We're listening like to point something out to you. If you look at it from another perspective what if for 2 hours Maybe you could look at it that way for a while. What are Air Force do if there was an airliner over to Arizona for 2 hours? Right? We'll give Dave a chance to respond. It's interesting. I think we've had about half a dozen questions on the airline that incident has obviously touched a deep response in the young listeners across the country and I guess we may as well give you another chance to respond to it. I am not sure how much more you have to add by there is much more that I can I can add I think the chances of course of a Russian airliner it being over the the middle of the Continental limits of the United States are pretty remote and I would also Somas Secretary of State's Schultz said that there's no excuse for shooting down an unarmed commercial airliner. All right, we'll take another color and to good afternoon. We're listening for your question to Dave roll. Non-union shop in being in Minnesota and being a businessman in Minnesota and being I guess what the what's the saying unless you really been there which I don't believe you have been in labor all your life. It is very very difficult to do business in the state of Minnesota. Primarily because of the Liberals the individual the push Minnesota taxes, etc. Etc. We are the highest taxed state in the nation. I don't believe you can deny that and for you to sit there and tell people there's buy myself a great place to do business is pure baloney will give Dave a chance to response interesting when there are thousands of small business folks in the in the state and I think all very pleased to be in this I don't think anybody is ever indicated that the things are going to be easy the business community on on all levels. Of course have a problem working people have have problems those people who aren't working the cars have a problem. And really I think what we're looking at many times doesn't really leave business climate of the state that maybe the political I've heard the news earlier with respect to mr. C been responding to a and I'll State editor and I've heard this gentleman and indicate that again, you know that the Liberals from freezing in the house and others, you know, we've always been a high tax state in the Minnesota. One of the reasons of course is because of our tremendous dedicate Can a commitment to education probably the best educational system in the United States had a number of other things that we've we've had it talk about unemployment insurance workers comp and the percentage the percentage at least with respect to the level where we been in in in this country hasn't he hasn't changed as an example from 1960 to 1970. There was no increase in the benefits for the injured worker not a dime's increase in in 10 years. No response from the business Community. The business climate was was good. I think a $1 average about $0.90 $0.90 a week per year for that 10 year. Unemployment insurance taxes were high during that particular time, but keep in mind the Republicans and conservatives if you When were in control and things haven't changed much over the last 20 years supposed to call Dave is concerned about the fact that yes, as you say Minnesota has been a generous State historically traditionally some other states in the country are not his generous and business people in Minnesota must compete with companies in those other states and they have a competitive advantage in other states that are less generous taxes, maybe lore. How can business people in Minnesota compete 12% corporate tax in Minnesota and the even though they are the employers complain about the high corporate attack. They want nothing changed with that because basically they the average corporate income tax paid by the large corporations of the state is probably between 5 and 65 + 6% As an example. Should I get at you make it a tremendous Advantage hasn't been brought up as an example that that South Dakota South Dakota has some advantages and the industry's going to Minnesota to South Dakota. What kind of interesting that so much industry and many pee and so many people are going in today state of South Dakota at a loss of congressmen are the only reason you lose a congressman is because your population is being reduced. So I think that's part of the rhetoric and and kind of a kind of gimmick that's being being used. I think the legislature is continuing to so to look at workers comp rates. They did this in the last session of the legislature looking at a business business taxes. So I think we are, you know, somewhat familiar with the businesses in this state. And when you see that they are in on the increase probably as much and more than the national average. I think this has something for the the business climate of the political climate in the state of Minnesota with other caller on the line will take the next question or good afternoon. Where are you calling from? General equipment program I can't imagine where they got the resident David because he is so adamant about what should be done are allies do the same thing. But you also have another question for a girl. Right-to-work individual Right to Work group civil rights from their salary. Text me. I don't want to take you right away. But why do you want to take mine away or I will give them a chance to respond belonging to a labor organization and miss you in this state and throughout the country is is voluntary they do have a agency. Shop, they do have those is a check off and they do have a a process that that if you belong in a union union shop that you would contribute towards that that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to become a member of that organization. That's a state statute that if a worker applies for a job at his hotel Union shop that you don't have to become a union member but you must contribute contribute to a veces. Yes, you can or you must contribute most of the Union shop agreement on this was the wishes of the of the membership of the workers in that, you know on that particular unit with other colors waiting with questions will take the next one. Good afternoon, babe Rose listening. Describe a specific appropriate action, which view I should take against the Russians, but maybe you could talk about what we what we in the world would gain by accentuating the Russians fear of our military power. It seems by the plane incident at the Russians are really afraid that we are going to get the edge on them in a mineral against their military. So what are we going to gain by making him more afraid? You're more qualified to react to a number of these these questions and the statements that the people want me to go to Mike and I'm not so sure that it would be constructive for me to to do that or in the best interest of the people that I would represent. I think eventually they National AFL-CIO will have something that would be very very appropriate and then when it comes I'll support it and I would hope that you would too or I will take another call or good afternoon day bro is listening. Go ahead with your question when in fact that labor in general is Haley discriminatory towards blacks is not that true in general. What is your percentage? AFL-CIO black membership in Minnesota. Well, I don't know what the percentage is. But I think that there are blacks and women and other minority groups are proportionately and the integrated them to the the labor movement are in the state of Minnesota as they are and I'll throw out the the rest of the the country. I don't recall saying that we gave a lip service to the March on Washington are we provided two buses? We also have provided an assisted the a Boy Scout Troop a black boy scout troop also to go to Washington to that participate in the in the march to at the see it and then proceeded to do with everything else. They were supposed to do a constructive lay in a few days. They would they would have we think that I I Relation ship and we think that the that the Urban League the n-double-a-cp, the urban Coalition are part of a working group that we have within the state of Minnesota. And I think that we're finding that all groups. I give you more than lip service to to one. Another are toll free line is open if you've been waiting to try that number one 800-652-9700 for those of you living outside the Twin Cities area within Minnesota one 800-652-9700. We have other colors with questions for Dave Rowe will go to the next one. Good afternoon. We're listening. Hello. I have a comment and a question my comment in the buy American by Minnesota question that has come up from previous collars. I went to a major department store in Downtown Minneapolis to buy a clock radio and could not buy an American made it radio at that store. That's just a comment. My question is is mr. Roll familiar with an article that appeared in the May Atlantic by Gregg, Easterbrook. And get the gist of the article, isn't it? Isn't it? Why unions are striking and losing jobs the corporations. In fact are closing down. Is there a comment that mr. Rowe could make about this. I'm thinking of the diacro situation that's just come up in the last week. I have some information with respect to the alcohol in in Lake City and they have indicated that this is just a pure economic decision that they have made to have to move their plant good a good number of things from their production to to Buffalo and there still a chance of course that they will stay here around the State of Minnesota and we're doing everything we possibly can to assist them as an example. Better to have a job at $10 an hour than no job at $20 an hour a particular on a particular job. One of the things that concerns us as we move away from heavy manufacturing and I'll steal autos and is robots and and other devices like technology comes in and takes over and then we start to find ourselves relegated to a service orientated the society and that we move away from the tent while $15 an hour jobs and and move down to the minimum wage jobs that this is going to put a big crimp in our economy at the present time. I believe that the poverty level for a family of four is $9,600 a $9,600 a year and that's kind of that's kind of scary. But if we move down and get jobs that are going to be down in that 3 for $5 an hour or category who will purchase a home who will buy a car who will be able to buy the things that are necessary to keep our economy and economy moving. So I think that this is all a matter of value and what we place and what the worker places on the product and also a course on his or her services with other colors wedding will get to the next one. Good afternoon. Where are you calling from? Glenwood area major question. What is the AFL-CIO doing unemployment? It is today's high and I would appreciate an answer with examples of what today at AFL CIO does and and how how they do it. First thing that you have to remember is that the labor movement per se does not hire employers businesses corporations hire Unfortunately today because of the economic conditions that are presently existing employers are not the very few are hiring in a number of the industry. Lisa even in northern Minnesota with paper as a as an example that instead of hiring additional people there working there working overtime and you will find that the number of other businesses where the employer is feeling that it's in their best interest to work people overtime and hiring new people. I think that the economy needs to be turned around and that's the answer to it to bring about the full employment for all those who wish to have to work and that's the the answer to the unemployment problem in this country in this state to the next question. Good afternoon. We're listening about what we would do if the plane would be over that is not well the Warriors are kind of Packer and waded out a space rover Naval and Air Force installations and exactly at crucial times also and there was not a single shot for redheads. She'll be living maybe Moscow appreciate your call and your comments and we have others waiting with about eight and a half minutes before 1. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question for Dave Grohl. What do you see as a realistic economic options this country or for that matter the rest of the world the Free World at least has in attempting to reconcile. And at the same time, you know, how do you see the role of organized labor in contributing to a solution with respect to the principal power? That's basically paranoid how to make a bad one course is the economic and the social aspects but one of the the reasons that the AFL-CIO call pulled out of the international labor organization several years ago with the course because of the reluctance of the of the Russians to recognize and practice human human rights and we were out of the international labor organization for a number of years. I just now going back into that organization and I think the As I pointed out earlier that I think it was very dramatically showing it pointed out of the lack of Human Rights and the value of personal rights that maybe LED today. I had to the action that was taken that the on the Korean commercial airplane. I think that we need to get the the Free World and we need the others to continue to to point out to the to the Russians and their allies that the Civil Rights and equal rights and human rights are important than without those six minutes before 1 we have time for a few more brief questions and responses. The next questioner is on the line. Good afternoon. We're listening. Union men, but I want to comment in two things one. We have had repeated flyovers in our areas. And if you will if you do know any pilots in the airport, and you read Air Force Association magazine that has been quite often that there have been bear bombers invaded our East Coast Area did not following the rules. We're going to have to cut you off there because I hate to see you go down completely to where we would have to work for nothing. This is Daddy when unions always be with down to nothing. Again. Thank you for your call will take the next color right now. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question. Isn't it this week? My concern is that Sanctions against the Soviet Union would hurt the workers of that Nation far more than they would hurt the military. I'm wondering I've heard you say you don't have any specific proposals at this point about what sanctions might be but I'm wondering it raises a question for me. At least. What is the relationship between the American labor movement and whatever connection there might be with Russian workers. What's our sensitivity to the spot that they are in not having much voice as we think they don't and that kind of dynamic. What what what can we do at this point that is sensitive to the Russian worker and yet it has a way of saying something very profoundly Russian military. Well, I think it's somewhat ironic that there are those even in this in this country who would like to do harm to the American labor movement and then applaud or course the efforts of this this country and condemn the efforts of of the communist country particularly important as they attempt to put down put down solidarity. This country has the least the the American labor movement has contributed financially to solidarity and this is hard to to to visualize because it's hard to had to get the funds in the materials to the right to the right people. It's hopeful and we are hopeful that radio free Europe. Russia and indicates to tell them the efforts of the American people in the in the workers towards the workers in Russia how to keep in mind that that is not a free it does not like the United States or we can have programs like this and we can criticize one another for whatever particular purpose and then go about our own business. This is just a great country as we see what's what's happened in in Russia what's happened in Poland and Russia the attitude of of those countries with respect to civil equal in and human rights. I think that points out the importance of the values that we have in this country who have another caller on the line for Dave real. Good afternoon. We're listening. Physicist mathematician and software that uses their knowledge for building and improving armaments Japan and Germany and other industrial countries use their best physicists. And so far as to improve products are unions don't seem to care that go along with this today. And this will lose jobs in this country at the economic and social fiber of this country being taken down Brick by Brick and that we have spoken out on a national in a local level about the overabundance of influence of the the military on the present Administration. I think one of the reasons that we are in trouble economically in this in this country is because of the military military budget no question about it to the vet extent. I agree with you Dave Grohl president. AFL-CIO, thank you for coming by for an hour to spend time with us in our listeners on Minnesota Public Radio Dave year old and thanks to all of our listeners for your calls and thanks to Dorothy Hanford for handling. The phone traffic technical director is red Olson at some new weather information from the Nash.