Well, it is difficult this time of year to open a newspaper or a magazine to watch television or listen to most radio stations without seeing or hearing and a door commercial for home computers indeed. It seems as though this is the year of the birth of mass marketing for home computers everything from relatively simple computer games to ones that tie into other computers around the country, but we decided it would be a good time to call in an authority on computers to guide those of you thinking of investing in some of this electronic gadgetry. And so we called on Mike Collins who was title. I'm not exactly sure of in like you can straighten me out on this the University of Minnesota where you work list you as either an analyst programmer or an analyst in programming, which is it analyst programmer. I work in a group and we try a new recipe to support people that use micro computers. Okay. Well we'll get in time. I'll be interested in hearing how you support people who do that. There's some people I'm sure who would like to borrow a few thousand dollars of some kind of support in order to to go out andBuy one of these computers, but I guess so we'll chat for a few minutes before we give out some phone number. So that listeners can ask you questions. One question that I have right off the bat. Is it are there some general categories or general types into which people like yourself place a home computers of the kind that we see advertised. Or do you lump them all into one group? I guess we don't really feel that. There are very many classes of microcomputers are home computers as I do call them. We feel the users phone owners. The people who uses computers would fall into General classes. More than my computer is in what might those classes be? one of the major uses of these computers has been games and fairly simple household accounting type processes as well as educational programs we're now seeing that the capability of these machines is going up in the cost is coming down allowing more ambitious projects to be a tackled within the home environment that's considered when it gets very complex very quickly and can often get the will drink on the basis for my question I guess is they the fact that I see the ads on television mainly that the talk about either the the computer games that which I imagine a relatively simple of cracks not to to win but at least two to put together and Market versus something like the Apple Computers. What should I say? They can do quite sophisticated things, but I'm assuming I guess from what you tell me that they're all based on the same principles. Well, there's the class of say the Atari. Game computer for the $150 to size computer and is really nothing much that you can do with that computer Beyond games and some limited stuff when you move into them. Larger tires the 400/800 then you're starting to get to be a rough Aquila machine to the apple. And there at that point you have a true computer system as opposed to a specialized game playing shape is the Apple. In fact the most sophisticated at home computer or micro computer available to people right now. Oh, no, they get much more top-end at all. I see. Okay. Well, I'm going to give out a couple of phone numbers here Mike and invite listeners to call and ask you questions about home computers and and while we're waiting for calls while ask a few more of my if you'd like to ask at University of Minnesota analyst programmer Mike Collins a question about home computers. You can call us in the Twin Cities at 2276 thousand at 2 to 7 6008 fuel listening to us around Minnesota outside the Twin Cities metro area call us toll-free at one 800-652-9700. That's one eight hundred six five two. 9700 and 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities shopping for a computer and that maybe not the best place to start cuz you're likely to be looking for a lot of different things than that. And then if I was going to go out if I come home computer because you know a lot more about them than I do. But are there some general attribute that attribute some general characteristics that you can suggest to people that they look for in a computer before they set out to spend the the chunk of money that the sum of these cost? Yes. I think there's there's one very important issue. It's very easy to buy what we would call hardware and as the actual physical box as you go down in the store and bring home and set up and plug in without any real understanding of the software. That's the other term we use to refer to the programs the instructions that make those boxes do think. And it's been very easy for people to buy hardware and then go looking for software. If I had anyone caution to people or recommendation to people when your purchasing machines is do it the other way around find software that will do. A job that you need done and then you hot find or purchase the appropriate Hardware to run that software and most a good computer stores and shops will have no sales people who will either be able to help you or not help you escape. Maybe if you walk in and say I want a program that's going to handle my checkbook accounts or my small business. That's her tooth. And it makes its help sort out things to if you begin to have an idea of what you want to do with the machine, then you can make much more informed decisions about what Hardware to buy. Okay. Well, we have a full Board of phone light blinking at at which indicates their number people want to ask you a question still a couple of lines open though for people who want to call. Let's go to our first caller. Good afternoon your on the are a minor. Yes, or you are first I have a question is an opinion. I like to share. Okay, go ahead. and I would such as the beasts an alarm system. System for burglary and stuff like that home security on the market at this time. I think there probably is one somewhere. and you had a comment to you wanted to make Laboratory okay, so I know about the two machines and I would like to tell the people on the air that Apple computer has the people fooled because they do not include in a rs232 unit. Lots of people who haven't the slightest idea of what that unit is clarify that to See the thing is an Apple computer. They have one slice in the back. spots where you can put in boards for What you want to call him? Where is Ruthie TRS-80 they have those features built in the only thing. Okay Market has different features and is designed to satisfy different requirements and you have to look very carefully. At what you're buying and match it to what you want to purchase. All right. Let's take another call. Good afternoon your on the air. I'm your basic computer ignoramus, but I would like to know more and other books that you can get ahold of and also a person who doesn't know much about computers, but would like to would like to find out. Yes many the book stores new actually have a whole section dedicated to home computers including University Minnesota bookstores. There also are a number of very informative magazines that are published monthly bike Killer Buns on their available in the most newsstands now, And the University of Minnesota extension division offers a number of courses on microcomputers in evening and also the University Computer Center offers courses during the day on my birthday pictures, when you mentioned a few minutes ago when we started that you work in a division or Department that serves if I understood you correctly people who have home computers are small business computers. What what does your department do and how can people tap into your resources? Well, there's only three of us, so there aren't too much in the way of resources to Tamp. We do we have 500 users on campus now and we trying and provide Communications facilities Consulting. I help line and a number of other day-to-day support facilities to make life a little bit easier for people using these computers. They're all pioneers and they can use all the help they can get does that mean that if I buy a can home computer that I can call you up or come in and sit down and talk to you or is just a bit more specialized than that. We tend to to have to restrict ourselves more less to the university community lysine. We just do not have the resources through the course has a short course is an extension division sweet time to provide some services for general public question Twin Cities that I'm it's on a weekly or monthly basis that exchanges diskettes are Apple knowledge, you know, just kind of comradery thing. yesterday there was a club called minneapols in Minneapolis and I Channel point you directly at the people. I should be able to. what I would suggest is is give the computer center call during the week and I can get you the information that you would need. Okay, and maybe we can give that number out its 376 the last part of 88068 806 and you and your colleagues are probably answer some questions that can't be answered today through 37680 6 on weekdays. Let's take another call good afternoon your on the are getting a home computer, but I'd like to get one that has the word processing capability. Is that feasible? yes, I would say that that's probably one of the more productive uses for many of these cheaper low-cost computer systems Their number of features to look for you will find however the word processing software in a computer to use it implies fairly high-quality printer and typically the printers will cost you almost as much as the computer system. Someone has to be aware of that. But there is a great deal of very good word processing software. Adding a magazine while back for some kind of a hook up with an IBM selectric typewriter, which I own it. Do you know anything about that? My personal feeling and I guess I would have to make it out. My personal feeling is that that's not particularly cost-effective way to go you run into reliability problems and a great deal of complexity and again, probably the most important issue is there's very difficult to find software. For a packaged ready to go word processing software that will cope with such an interface again. It's a question of finding software and then working back to the hardware in most cases that's cheaper and simpler and more efficient way to go. I am I I am also in the category of people who don't know anything about home computers and you talk about software and I have a vague idea of what that is. What I'm wondering is I've heard also that there is this great shortage of software. There's lots of Hardware out there that Glitters and is pretty to look at the end and all but I'm not a lot of programs to just pop right into them. Are there some computers that are not outrageously expensive that people can program themselves create their own software. Almost any of these computers are programmable by yourself in essentially any language any of the standard computer programming languages? All I would say I guess my biggest biggest comment about that kind of man approaches that don't underestimate the difficulty of programming. It's not a something in a week or so professional programmers get paid to do a job and it's it's a fairly sophisticated job. Which is not to say that that even just sitting down and and playing with the basic language on a small computer. Is not a very informative and and stimulating way to learn about computers. But if you don't know a lot about computers, it's probably not a smart thing to think that you could sit down on a weekend and write yourself program at the software doesn't exist. That's probably true. Typically you would a very sophisticated word processing package that might sell for on the order of 300 to $500 on the open market probably cost a million dollars to develop. In terms of Time Manpower that much it's not an easy game to do and then that's only the beginning the long-term support. We have programs University the cost of chunk of money to develop within four months for forever. You were sitting there maintaining them and keeping them running you'd be surprised how fast things stopped running just be better physically break down or that they supposed to be updated. Somebody has to go in and and tweek with the program a little bit and they could do the new things and it's a very time-consuming business a never-ending process that may explain why there is this software shortage a Well, that's probably that's part of it. I think it's just The hardware is easier to do than the software the hardware can be brought on the market in a year to the software by definition will follow where the hardware goes the software can't be there before the hardware. Okay. Well, we have a number of listeners still waiting to ask questions. Let's take another call that afternoon. We're listening to your question. Yes. Go ahead program. Do you have to have a double? I don't think to put three different. What are you talking about a word processing system? no in most cases, it's With an apple, for example, it's not even usually require that you have floppy disks drives. These would be against Hillary storage systems. Tape cassette tape systems can be use for for large term storage at your question. Okay, thanks for calling. Let's take another call. Good afternoon. We're listening to your question. Afternoon, I'm a farmer and a Shepherd. Is there agricultural software? yes, they're there is a very large group of people in the Agricultural Extension division is University of Minnesota who are very serious about developing and contacting farming people in the farming Community who use want to use my Pro computers to Aid in their work and they have a large body of software available and I would suggest contacting you or Agriculture extension agent or the University of Minnesota agriculture extension Division, St. Paul. Thank you. Thank you for calling let's take another call. Good afternoon. We listening for your question. the gentleman earlier mentioned of program courses at the U in microprocessors in general specifically programming 6502 at a machine language. Don't ask what the 65 or is that a particular kind of computer? Yes, let's though I thought it might be a processor that runs in the Apple computer. No, we do not offer anything at that level of detail. That's pretty much the individual user from friends. Yeah, we tend to very much Advocate Program and high-level languages as opposed such as Fortran Pascal. Or basic as opposed to machine language in this day and age that the compilers and interpreters in the software is good enough that there's not a great deal of advantage to that and it does provide more portable software. criminal simulation the address for the Minneapolis PD mailing address. Yes. Grand Avenue South Burnsville, Minnesota +553-373-371-3516 Grand Avenue, South Burnsville 55337 Get back to work and this is the the minneapols group. Okay, good. Thanks very much. Let me give that address. I'll just one more time. That's 13516 Grand Avenue South in Burnsville. And the zip code is 55337 and says send along a self-addressed stamped envelope. Let's take another call. Good afternoon. Glenda I've come to a computer talk to a cheevers group one time and they had somebody from the University come over and show them how to make a flowchart in some of those think the specific question is. Belong to one of these Health maintenance organizations known as HMO and every time a patient comes in what they want is a written report in duplicate with numbers for diagnosis and procedures to feed into the computer. This generates an awful lot of mail going back and forth Is it feasible in a concentration like stop tell Fairview Hospital in the Southdale medical building to set up a room where people could just type this stuff in Seattle and display screen and push a button and send it to the central office. WellStar my Facebook. Yes. It sounds like a very interesting project and I would encourage you to pursue it. It's the kind of thing where you can you can put in a small cheap computer system. And Brie and mixed with her significant gains in productivity where you have repetitive clerical tasks to be done ideal applications for small computers. The expense of that kind of a setup as I visualize it from the printed material that comes across my desk certainly that I've never asked for. You would have to have a She born at Terminal and you'd probably have to have an electronic connection with wherever the central office was. Yeah, it's very difficult to to specifying Hardware in detail without taking a long hard look at the functionality and it's goes back to the Define the software find the software then developed Hardware solution to implement that particular program someone in in this gentleman's position or this gentleman in particular. It sounds to me like cuz maybe going to have to talk to a consultant someone who is going to be able to to be more specific about not only what Hardware is needed. What kind of hookups all that sort of thing. But also what programs are available. Yes in many cases. Where are you you're starting from ground zero and developing a sophisticated system to do something. Either the individual people or not. Qualified to make all the decisions and you have to to resort to Consultants outside experts. University of Minnesota does some contract software of this sort there many other firms scattered on University are around the the city that do this kind of work a good place to start is is called some of the larger computer manufacturers describe your problem to them in and get some responses from them. They'll be happy to talk to you. For sure. Okay, very good. It is 26 minutes past 12 noon and we have Mike Collins who is a computer expert from University of Minnesota and rstudio and he's taking your calls about home computers microcomputers the guys that we've seen advertised a lot this time of year. And if you have a question for him, we have some phone lines open for you now in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand that's to 276 thousand outside the metro area, but in the state of Minnesota cost toll free at one 800-652-9700. It's going to another call right now. Good afternoon. You're on the air high. Can you tell us? Sing about the limits of computers what computers can't do? I've been hardest question a long time. I kind of have a semi facetious but stock answer to that question and there is really no limit. The limit is is in the time and energy that people are willing to put into making them do it. Typically what your kind of getting it. I think was that question is is am I buying too small a computer. How do I decide whether this computer is too small for this particular task? There's no easy answer for that whatsoever. It's you simply have to look at each particular case. Typically what one would try and do is get a computer and if it's too slow go to a larger computer when you say slow. Are you talkin literally about time? It takes to rent process things. You don't want to wait. If you are all the color previous question work people are filling out these days HMO forms. One would not want to have the user wait 30 minutes for a response from the computer into say yes. Okay, your form is all right, or wait. I have a problem but responsive 4 seconds might be perfectly adequate and too dependent down much more than that. You have to look at that particular application. And again it goes back to the software goes back to what you want to do with computer start with the software work to the hardware you asking. All right. Let's go to another call. Good afternoon. You're on the air. I don't know anything about computers and what not in the sense of that word, but I'm looking into something and you know that I could do budget reports and tax reports on and wondering if you know of any place that rents are leases home computers for a week or a month to know I got try before you buy a type of thing. That sounds like a good idea. I think many of the vendors will. Rent you machines. Typically the Rental on on equipment like this of this nature, which is by definition somewhat fragile. Washing machine tends to be almost prohibitive for just kind of looking at it. Do you have an idea roughly all One would expect to pay probably 10% of purchase price per month. So good for a rental come over $300 a month. Usually. Yes. On the other hand, I would I would say is that most of the vendors would be more than happy to allow you if you're serious about buying computer system to come out and spend four five six hours or two hours today and I'm three hours next week if you're serious sitting down and actually getting in detail or in-depth acquainted with the computer system. I'll wrap it up laundry service should have no problem about doing that and it like gives you a chance to get to know the vendor. Also, we will if you're buying a 3004 thousand dollars worth of equipment from someone. and or time are you going on that machine for 5 years, and you will probably do a lot of Business with that Thunder overtime over the years and it should be a working relationship want to ask you a quick question about that working relationship. Now, I'm curious to know if there are things people should look for as far as warranties things like that, or is that a pretty standard thing for most home computers? Yes, as far as I am aware almost all the computers come with us in the 90 day warranty parts and labor. He's awfully short to me. Well, it has a lot of it has to do with the nature of the equipment. There's very few moving parts and most of them and typically what we've seen a diversity is that you get most of the failures that will occur in the first year in the first day. Beyond that they tend to settle into a very stable Runnings configuration and it's it's not a big issue ongoing maintenance is a bigger issue. They are complex sophisticated machines and don't work. They did they tend to be very sensitive to single individual parts of them failing. Typically when the one small part of the system fails at brings down most of all of the system and So you have this problem you have to keep the whole thing up and running for it to be particular productive. And then you say keep it up and running. Do you mean literally keep it on all the time? No, no, but but keep it functional if you have disc drive in your system, and it doesn't work. It's ceases to function. There's probably very little you can do with the computer at that point, even though the computer the memory is a processor the display and keyboard are not working fine. So the living room light very much whole systems and you kind of have to have one part breaks down. Then you really lose the whole system for most practical prepper. Most practical purposes have a on their staffs that repair people. Do you suppose many of the Benders two guns? They have in-house maintenance. You have to look at it at maintenance. You can buy on site which means I'll come out to your house and fix it. Just like IBM all the way down to carry it in. They'll fix it all the way down to just parts and labor. It's not cheap to do it either way. If you're doing productive work with a computer system, and it's actually saving your money at some point some way you'll find that the maintenance is just an operating expense that's easily justify, but it could be it could do a number on your pocketbook. If you bought it to really be maybe more of a of a distraction or a game. That's what some people are saying. There's something in that order and when it breaks down it's not going to cost you $0.50 to get it fixed. Okay, let's take some some more calls West right now near Ulta sell timeshare into the general public and if so, how do they charge it into? Do you recommend it for business applications? That I've I'm guessing that what he means is to it into a novice like myself is it by into the University's computer and then take some yes, we do room. We do sell time. It's not a large part of our operation. We do commercial that we have a large machine and we do provide commercial accounts on those you simply call a computer center and they can give you information about that charges are based on the amount of processor time that you use the amount of wall clock time. If you will that you're talking to the computer over telephone line and storage charges for the information stored in the computer system. There are other time sharing. Houses here in the Twin Cities that will wrap time also watch that look in the paper in the financial section are number people at every time. As for using his in a business environment again, it goes back to software if there is software available and there is some home but there's not a great deal of accounting business type software available in the University's computers. That's not been requirement of our system. There are their time sharing systems that do provide that software and so going back to this. If you find the software then go to the hardware that is required to make that work if people want to get in touch with the the University Computer Department, do they call your department or is that a separate one? I would call the don't remember that the main office computer number main office and they will be happy to take another call. Good afternoon your on the air. Hello. Yes. Go ahead. We're listening. My kind of question the hard ones. well And the first and foremost of course is a game software and I could game software games on. Okay, that's one class. I think you can do certain word processing. There is some small mailing list type. systems boilerplate letters form letters maintain membership lists maintained certainly doing household finances household accounting that kind of thing can be very easily done on those kinds of Shane's not software is available. Well, I can't recommend any computer until I know the application until I know the software until I know the machine. It's a very good piece of Hardware. There's no question about that. It's already for the money at so it's a very solemn sound piece of equipment quite well engineered and there is getting to be a large body of software available for it the Minnesota educational Computing Consortium. That's a Statewide high school and I believe dinner all the way down through kindergarten educational Computing system. It has settled on that machine for the next year or so at least. All right. Thank you for calling. Let's go to another caller. Good afternoon High it still available. If so, who sells almond does one need help to building and I'll just lift Okay computer kits. Yes, there is a great deal of kids stuff still on the market. A lot of that goes back to the the issue. So what do you want to do with the computer? And if the kids as it stands can be made to do what you want. Then that's probably a very interesting way to go about it. I personally have gone most of the Heathkit stuff. They do they're probably the Cadillac of the ship computer systems. Are they built very far equipment and it's very easy to assemble stuff is a problem with that. There's a big the biggest Pitfall in that area. However, is that If you take Hardware from many different manufacturers and assemble it yourself and piece together a system. If you will, it's very difficult to get software that will run on that system. Are difficult to go down to your local store and buy a sophisticated word processing package say so there aren't generic generic programs or software at this point. There is some generic software, but it's if it's a touch of your business than you would think even the professionals some of our group have done that kind of thing and you go around for a long time many years sometimes trying to get software up and running on a piece together system. I Force Unleashed for a novice user. I very strongly recommend Buying all of your compliments all of the hardware from a single vendor that's all designed to run together or be prepared to do a lot of your own programming or be prepared to do a lot of sweat. Okay. I want to do with the computer and if the kids as it stands can be made to do what you want. Then that's probably a very interesting way to go about it. I personally have gone and built mostly Heathkit stuff. They do they're probably the Cadillac of the chip computer systems how they built very far equipment and it's very easy to assemble. There's a problem with that. There's a big the biggest Pitfall in that area. However, is that If you take Hardware from many different manufacturers and assemble it yourself and piece together a system. If you will, it's very difficult to get software that will run on that system. Are difficult to go down to your local store and buy a sophisticated word processing package say so there are generic generic programs or generic software at this point. There is some generic software, but it's if it's a touch of your business than you would think even the professionals some of our group have done that kind of thing and you go around for a long time many years sometimes trying to get software up and running on a piece together system. I Force Unleashed for a novice user. I very strongly recommend Buying all of your compliments all of the hardware from a single vendor that's all designed to run together or be prepared to do a lot of your own program or be prepared to do how to sweat a lot of sweat. Okay, 21 minutes before 1 lots of call are still to ask question. Let's go to another one right now good afternoon your company and one of the services of the company Isaiah Learning Center, and I'm wondering if anything like that is available to be tied into a person. Well in learning of learning about the computer is so number of subjects. I'm not really familiar with with that area right now. It is changing rapidly. And that's certainly this computer aided instruction mole concept where the computer is a a learning tool into information. Resource areas is a burgeoning field right now and massive growth is happening in there. Now. The the Mac group is doing a lot of work in this area. What is neck Nestle Minnesota educational computer Consortium? You spoke over right now, That's a Statewide computer educational group listed in the phone book. And example Towery puts out many computer-aided packages to learn about math to learn about this and all sorts of things. Most of it. Unfortunately right now is still very much geared to the younger and the first introductory stuff in any particular field requires considerable resources to to do something sophisticated say like a course in calculus. Where is a courtesan in arithmetic is a considerably smaller and more compact thing to deal with. Okay. Let's take another call that afternoon. We're listening to your question. Yes. I'm interested in word processing but the price is a little high for me. Things that would cost almost $3,000 and maybe more including the printer. How long do you think I would have to wait for the price to come down under $1,000? Long-term what I'm having watched the market for the last 4 years 5 years. There's really not been any significant drop in the price of a computer system in the last few years. It has to do with it. I think I mentioned earlier that you can for around $3,000 get yourself the hardware without printer to do word processing hardware and software to do very sophisticated word processing. And then unfortunately a printer to do the kind of typewriter quality print to go on with that is about 2000 or more dollars in addition and the price of that $2,000 printer is never going to get any cheaper. Well, or I should never say never right? It's been that price for years. It's a mechanical system and there's no reason to expect that. It's going to get cheaper. You've seen it. It's a little bit misleading, but I think you've seen in the last Leasing an industry in Last 5 Years at the price of chips. The compliments of computers has gone way down but that's already down to the point where that's a fraction of the cost of a computer system in $3,000 system. You probably got $250 worth of chips the rest of its in keys and crt's and displays the keyboard the cases the power supplies the cords the motors for the disk drives and that technology is very old technology 10-15 years has fully matured. There's no real dramatic price drops coming so that the price drop has been Ice what's going on? It's going to stay where he's for a while as a guess one would say that $3,000 is the price of a computer system and probably will be for a long time. No camping on that order still lots of calls. Let's take another one. Good afternoon. You're on the air and it was just her e400 Atari 400. With the feedback as far as I know any of them could guess. Programs in the high-level language called lumps which is a specialty by a medical language. I do not believe so as far as I know mom's only runs on the the larger computers right now. I've only just barely heard of mumps. I I couldn't say for sure. What chance most available software for income tax processing check book a bibliography in word processing? datari the aplatir sne or is there another one? No, I think I think they're probably all quite even actually I think most of the software of the Atari 400 probably legs them much of that software does require More memory than you can typically get in the 400 if you the Atari the Apple in the equivalent machines Atari 800 is now equivalent to the Apple in the TRS-80 Atari 400 is a considerably smaller machine than the app. So it's not quite fair to compare those but certainly of the Atari 800 the the Apple in the TRS-80. There's a great body of software for all three of those machines to do that stuff. Very good. Is there any significant threats differential currently has no far as I can tell they're all just about the same price for just about the for the equivalent computer. That's the hard part is trying to Define equivalent computer system. So you can actually compare the dollars, but they tend to be very close and price. All right, thanks for those questions. Let's take another call. Good afternoon your on the yes, I don't really know too much alive on computers, but I tune in a couple minutes ago. And I basically I had three questions one is is there any way of getting some kind of an idea what the cost of meth cost effectiveness of having a home computer would be not from a game standpoint, but from like household financing and things that would normally be done in a normal household either personally or whether there's any Booker. Something available along that line as far as what's a good what are the guidelines? There are books and all I can really say it is. You're the problem is always been with computers from home computers all the way through large mainframe computers is at the the cost-effectiveness the ability to justify the cost of that computer is a very hard thing to pin down because typically what you get is gains and productivity. Which are very difficult things to measure and put dollar figures on all I can really say everywhere books magazines. I would highly recommend some of the popular magazines on home computers. They are addressed to the novices. They're very readable things. They contain too many advertisements or hardware and software and I'll make the light for reading as well as a good background and that I've always done my own income tax, but it has been getting more and more complex and I find it just running through getting the figures to put down on the forms take me less time than actually running through the different formulas and the different forms that I have to use and I was wondering are there programs available where you in all the time where it would Call form death of your something like that number by number 23 for that particular tax year and you could key in the number unless they run on a comparison of filing a single year filing. Jointly that type of thing versus Kid tax preparation software available for this class apples to grow C-Class machine on the market. Whether or not it's going to save you enough to pay for it. I don't think it's just very difficult to say the big problem with that is that you'll find them every time they change the tax laws than the programs have to be Rewritten in the cost of maintaining a current tax program contain off an offset. A lot of the games. Can you get him into a prepackaged program like this gentleman's talking about a tax program that if they changed the tax forms or a tax laws in summer another can you do that yourself? Is it possible or does that mean the whole program is outdated in my sweet Austin God's been to three $400 more than one. You know, what you doing? You can maybe fix it odds are it's probably now obsolete. Software is a very touchy business and in the worst thing in the world the hardest thing in the world about programming at all as to go into someone else's program and change it. Very very tricky business. Let's take another call. Good afternoon. You're on the air before I can do that. I have to justify to my wife that whatever it is. We buy today is going to be around and supported by this vendor at a 5-10 years from now, and I just wondering Some of the bigger companies are committed to what they call out phone compatibility as my needs changed over time. Is there anyone vendor who has got a history of pulling the rug out from under his previous users or something like that way from work who is more committed to keeping a compatible line of hardware and software products overtime. Well, I guess I wouldn't say that there's anybody that stands out. at either end of the spectrum Islamic feel free talking about I am is it a very good question certainly a very important issue. I have a tenant to approach the whole question of computer obsolescence from the standpoint that if if you're buying a computer to do something today and the job needs doing as long as that job needs doing the computer will do it. I'm so never does become obsolete thinking is right now $30 now on the basic equipment needed without any printers or anything like that if I wanted to add on printer is or if they like if they have packet switching Technologies offer to the general public like I do. I guess I really just be a little leery of getting up having a $3,000 thing. That's no better than a toy room. The best computer IBM has a personal computer on the market. It's not very cheap machine. It's not a cheap machine. It's a very high quality machine and it's probably well Beyond computationally in terms of power be on what would really be demanded in a home that was certainly not initially. But certainly buying that guarantees you a great deal of long-term stability on the other hand buying on computer from a small company in California that's putting on something this week is it is a certainly a more Risky Business. It is termed true that many of the large binders IBM zaroxolyn and those people are getting into this market and that kind of a company back and guarantees you a lot of long-term stability, but that's not an easy question to answer. It's not again. I would say go back and take a very hard look at the projected growth and the features that you're going to want to grow into overtime at that look at a company senior is in it, too. Is no answer for that one. Okay, let's take another call that afternoon. You're on the air. Meet up and changing so rapidly. I'm interested in getting one night. I don't really know what I needed for but I would like to learn about 1 but do you anticipate that the field is going to change so much in the next several years then one might do well to wait a one or two years. Inevitable question right then. Why buy one now when I can wait a year and get a better one for the same price. That's probably always going to be true. We talked before about the price coming down. I think that what we've seen is the prices stable now, but every year you get a little bit more for your money. All right back, there will be a update module so you won't end up behind yes or no there there always limits fundamental limits to any particular computer as soon as it comes off. The drawing boards and is put into a reality. There are limits. And there's no way around that completely. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you for calling we have about the three more minutes time to take a couple more calls. Let's go to another one right now. Good afternoon. Your on the are currently working with a TPM system under working with a program called word star in a fairly new product Colin Osborne computer. I have recently purchased a daisy wheel printer and I'm having a little trouble using the installed in then in the word star system. Is there somebody I can call or something to come out to take a look at it and get the Well, that's typically the vendor is the one that I would turn to for that kind of assistance write the word sir is definitely available. I would go to the vendor in this that's the the problem that that one always has when you buy printer from here and then computer from here and software from here is is the integration of that whole package and that's why I think it's when when you do start purchasing software, it's important to set up a working relationship with a vendor and because he's really the one that has to support that kind of It has provide that kind of support. Okay, let's take another call good afternoon or not. You're on the air. It was a call earlier or somebody mentioned her address right now. We have a club address to ever she got was our newsletter and have people send a self-addressed stamped envelope to a club address and get probably better Services Bear, Minnesota. 553-435-5343. That's PO box. 796 Hopkins, Minnesota 55343 in the third Wednesday of each month. And we have to Buck 700 happened to members and publisher newsletter. That's about 10 to 20 pages each month and membership dues are $12 per year. Thanks very much for calling with that information. Once again, the address for the Minneapolis of Computer Club is post office box. 796 Hopkins Minnesota 55343. And if you want more important invitation, they suggest you send that address to self addressed and stamped envelope so that you'll get your answer back quickly we have about a minute and if we can take one more call who can compress their question that get a quick answer will do it. Let's go. Let's go to another car. Good afternoon. Available to the public whereby I could and the user contain put it out, but actually purchasing a printer. Through most of the time sharing frontal systems in this the Twin Cities. If you can call up and ship your information in it can be printed out then and you can pick it up university offers that kind of thing. If you had a commercial private account on the cybers and could call in. Yes, that's one way to go about it that I don't know of anybody that actually just kind of rents out a printer. All right, my queue of answered. Lots of questions here today A good the 25 or 30 of them and we want to thank people who called in and we're sorry we didn't get to all of the listeners on the line, but perhaps they can call you at your office next weekend at the University of Minnesota. That number is 37688 06.