I want to underscore and elaborate on two of the things you've already heard about recipe Soul gave you a broad outline of the essential framework of classical Islam Now weather in fact it ever was a classical Islamic society is an open question, which will be debated among the present-day activists in the Islamic movement for the next two things to me Century to centimeters is very much like the religious wars of the 16th 17th century in the west when Christian defining themselves in various ways as I think this will happen in the Muslim world. the these what are the essential points he made is I want to insist on the importance of there is no way you can deal with the Islamic movement without understanding underscoring this principle that there is no separation of church and state. At no time did the prophet Muhammad ever suggest. In fact, it was not only implicit but explicit that Islam was not a religion in the sense of the word for the total way of life. We in Christianity. It was rendered unto Caesar that which is his and to God that which was his forgive me for making God masculine everything belongs to God. I recall on that score. I was in Cairo at the time of the Iranian Revolution doing research for the research on. Watch Professor Algonquin probably problem properly rejects Revival fundamentalism, etc, etc. I still Trip truck from somewhere, but I was in Cairo at the time and I remember in January just before the Ayatollah came back to Iran the French magazine party March had a picture of the shabanu the shots wife doing her pilgrimage to najaf dressed in the shed or appropriately. and the picture was taken to Ayatollah Khomeini, then living outside of Paris and you left the comment. And if ever there was a phrase that summarizes to me what the current Islamic upheaval means, it's this he said he said it I don't know what mine would you set it in but it was written in French. Only negotiate one does not negotiate with God. What he was saying is the hypocrisy of the shot by new going to a pilgrimage an address on the holy month of Muharram for Shiites. Most holy month. Was he apocracy when does not negotiate with God at this late date having sinned interrupted against the system? That concept one does not negotiate with God means you don't separate out the various things in life, which is what was happening in the more than Muslim world is what these Islamic movements all about. They trying to restore what the central what is the most essential fact this long to Unity of the system. There is no separation of church and state economics polity what info goes and so on. No steam persists throughout the whole Muslim World from Morocco to Indonesia to West Africa to East Africa. That the Hallmark of a Muslim state or a Muslim polity in the Morton world. That's in the past is the reason to tution of the Holy law. Asurea weather that's going to be done is a burning and raging question and there are many differences of opinion within the Muslim Community about whether it can be done and how it will be no money of the organizations who sang this. I also in a sentence saying something else that comes out of the tradition. It was passed over very briefly, but it's important to know it's a question came up about Iran and the sheer side of it. In Islamic history. There was a moment in time when after the evolution of the ideology of the construction of the legal system and the theological system. There was a point in time at which The whoever they were very difficult to describe this because it's the closest thing I can come to it and say the Vatican Council 1. We're not by council meeting but I can sense has emerged among the religious leaders that the system was completed and that and I'm quoting the door of interpretation was close by but it's too hot in here on the she has the cheerleaders are called which that is because this is a fundamental difference between Orthodox and Sunni Islam and she was Sunni religious leaders. The system is intact. But for Iranian she has or she has the system is ever-changing and the political Theory the professor al-ghad talked about was uniquely hsieh is from which permits molas as we call them now Loosely to organized political demonstrations against unjust rulers. the redistribution about the bat system Solutions of sharia the opening of the door of interpretation in that sense. These movements are not regressive. They are in fact dynamically attempting to reinterpret although on a parent like the question raised about women the apparent the surface manifestation seems to be and the present played at this way a return to the 7th Century. Will this is sheer nonsense. There are some people who want to restore the spirit in ethics, but there was no one that I know of that they're going to reconstruct Islamic society. They talking about the spirit me Foster the society. And how that will work out in the 20th century the question of the day. No HD had the opening so that if if you view these Islamic movements not as regressive, but it potentially revolutionary. They are opening reopening the door of interpretation. Now the other side of that is a point that came up is the concept of consensus of the community. The prophet was said don't said my community will never agree on era. That can be sometimes a naive political view but in a very real sense, we all should understand that there is an American consent what keeps the English Nation together is a consensus among the people of that Nation about what it is. They're all about the same thing in a very real sense the meaning of these Mass moving to the developing a question came up over there about dizzy. I mean if the Arabian revolution revolution revolution, we saw in the pictures every single day millions and millions of people one demonstration to an apartment surely. This was a consensus a consensus not by the pallet by foot know if you view these Islamic moving today in those lights. I think you'll see them more appropriately. As responses to over 200 years of South Percy Muslim decline in the face of 200 years of colonization not only of lands but of mines. And I told her represents. What is emerging as a real syndrome across the whole Muslim world that there was and is something valid and real in this family heritage. That one does not need to become a second-class Westerner is a Westerner capitalist a Westerner communist that there is an indigenous system on which to draw The Future Has meaning only in terms of its past as we say one has to know where from whence Warehouse from when she was coming. I'll let you know where you're going. And in a very real sense Islamic movements today are attempting. to assert not only the viability of Islam at the system way of life, but the validity of the Revelation to begin with no. It's essentially what I'm saying a search for a destiny that's in the hominid with the past of the Muslim people. No. The second point I wanted to pick up on. What's the point made by Preston Elgar? The current Islamic upheaval, let's use the media Expressions. If not something that began two years ago or 4 years ago or in the early seventies and someone is riding at all because of the oil boom as a fundamentalist movement being subsidized by Saudi Arabia and Libya. There is no way to look at the current Islamic activism without putting it in the historical context of the evolution of Islamic thought in the last two centuries and part of this is in reaction to again to repeat the experience and contact or lack of contact with the West. Which is seen as an oppressor. And which has created Havoc intellectual cultural spiritual in some people. Now to try and again to to draw out to draw away from an alien. An imposition of alien values in cultures and values from a culture that is not Muslim is again another way of stating when I'm what I started with which is try and draw again out of the past something that is in harmony with the spirit nice off of that Civilization, which as you all must know or should know at a brilliant brilliant was Aberdeen episode in history. Stop the historical perspective and the religious sect of the society did in fact play a leading role in that. Well, you had a happening everywhere else in the Muslim world to you had an Islamic Renaissance beginning in the 19th century in India. That's how many I didn't 1947 in the creation of the state of Pakistan. It was the assertion the unwillingness of the Indian subcontinent Muslims to live under a Hindu majority. But even before that they are World beginning in the again the late 1960s record of the 19th century. We have a very eminent personalities jamaleddine Olive Garden who preached at the various courts, so I'll defend to the power in the time India. Istanbul gyro who went around preaching the unity of Muslims against the foreign not only territorial encroachment but cultural imperialism He left a legacy of activism from which organizations like the one I studied the Wilson Brothers of Egypt great information with other reformers so-called Mahmoud Abdul and eminent in Egyptian Skyline with himself and activists involved in his early years and they just prior to the British occupation of Egypt in 1882, but who subsequently became Islamic University in the world are at Cairo. There were other movements kind of Sufi movement of Libya. Leaving aside his political antiques, Qaddafi comes out of a tradition in Libya of the senator movement, which whose leaders contested with the Orthodox religious leaders in Cairo. The question of their right to interpret Islam in terms of their own needs in the 20th century 19th and 20th centuries later. But you had in a very real sense that might just moving in the Sudan in the late 19th century, which is reasserting the the the validity of their interpretation of Islam against all the Muslims Egyptians and Turks. You had a beginning that I had nothing to do with impact of the West so-called the wahhabi movement to bed the ideological basis of the 18th century and was an indigenous self-generated movement against corruption as I perceive it in the Muslim High Rocky. This was a Revolt of Muslims against what I'm suggesting is that throughout I'm gaining weight back to the 9th century that have been periodic eruptions. Beginning with the father is where of modern-day fundamentalism which is still the active legal framework within which Saudi Arabia to this day works. No. Know the movements and those intellectuals, but the current activism is really in the hands of organizations the prime one being. It has become a nightmare for me since almost everything everyday everywhere. You read every way to turn around will read now about the Muslim Brethren the Muslim, Brotherhood. Properly speaking. It's a society. The Muslim Brothers Prime area of operations was in Egypt a minute. I just want to make the point that it's confusing. So many people this last week Business Week had a nautical and this thing's with this article that almost every Muslim activist in the Muslim world today is labeled in Wilson brother. This is not true the current seen in Syria, for example with the acid resume fighting with a fake Muslim Brothers as enemies of the states where do reflects and ethnic and religious cleavage within the country because Siri is ruled by a minority sect. Now there are Muslim Brothers in Syria operating but that everyone who opposes the regime as a Muslim brother all that everybody in the Arab world who actively speaks in the name of the song is a Muslim brother and nothing but the title on this is equally important a silent but deadly force in Mideast and rice. And then it goes on to talk about how the Muslim Brotherhood has his hands operating behind the scenes and Jordan and Libya and Saudi Arabia and Syria and Lebanon and exercise. No. There are many many. We all one could probably argue that many of these organizations that are not Muslim brother brothers. Take their inspiration from the the Morton movement which began in Egypt in the early thirties and was crushed 1948 1954 to 1965 and is now active illegal still illegal in Egypt, but there are numerous other things organizations. They called Islamic society. In the University, which I don't have the exact knowledge except the people involved with the organization of the proposed as large a threat to the regime by Melissa. As any the Muslim Brotherhood probably poses any threat because they are regarded as having been co-opted if there is trouble in Egypt come from these little known organizations within the university. There are organizations called I believe there's so many run has soldiers of God or the the Hezbollah the party of God Egypt so-called salafi movement movement from the word set up which means to return to the origins of the purity of the set of the original followers of the prophet. The Pint I really want to. make year is that there are large numbers increasingly large numbers and Professor allgauer's right now for the simulated by the events in Iran. Which make possible for the first time the the the real hope that somehow these societies which for 200 years have been governed by Elites which had adopted for themselves and for their peoples. Weston Frameworks of viewing the world Is real hope of toppling them. And this is not only true in Egypt is true in Syria is true in Tunisia is true in Morocco. It's true even in Saudi Arabia the hot water taxi and especially in Saudi Arabia. Standing of The Straits of Hormuz. I believe not to invade Iran but to invade Saudi Arabia. To protect it from the enemies within its tray G. She is as having deviated. From the wahhabism the fundamentalism the puritanical rigor and vigor which animated the society in the first place. the events of 1979 Iran revolution the Afghan invasion I don't mean to suggest that precisely I Prevail. By the event that was reported. November 79 That appeared for two days and then it was suddenly reported that this was a bunch of religious Fanatics riding out of the desert with their swords. In fact, it was a highly organized social economic political protests, which would have had it worked out wiped out the entire Saudi royal family in the Grand Mosque at Mecca the strategy the strategy of the United States was shaken to its roots having lost the shop and potentially Saudi Arabians seems to me that was a considerable considerable evidence. If you look back on it how we started making noises about keeping an eye on the Eastern province in Saudi Arabia. Now, the feeling in the world about the revolution is very makes perfect on the popular max level. are these organizations that I know growing numbers for out the Arab and not a Are taking new inspiration from the sets of the Arabian Revolution. on the other hand the regime's Are all quaking in their boots. For two reasons one. It's opened up. The Pandora's box of mass popular level Revolution. I would go further and say that the Iranian Revolution is unprecedented in human history. I do not think the French Revolution that the potentially comprable things. The Russian Revolution was an elitist Revolution. The American Revolution was about a popular character actor solid, but the Uranian Revolution was the only people's movement in all of human history that I can recall. That's that forces the Arab regimes think about this, but he's doing it from above in fear of the mobs. Egypt has gone another way. I'm going to send that is in full of contradictions. He on the one hand launched and that's why they don't counter-revolution shortly after Heat. Wow, the the religious pages of the daily newspapers in Cairo up to December was sort of rigorous and puritanical in town right after the Arabian Revolution. There was a shift in reshuffle in the whole hierarchy of the and suddenly there was a liberal interpretation of Islam liberal impulse and ran through 2 degrees for example changing the personal status laws affecting women in divorce and I'm in a very real sense that was a brave act given the fact that his religious opposition was already declared ready to go on the opposition to Camp David. And all right. It was a thing that the dots was prepared to take on and establish a whole other interpretation of Islam. Not only the regime's in the area concerned about the political fact that people can be activated into street right at the top of jeans, but they also concerned more fundamentally and philosophically with the interpretations of a slum which make revolutionary change possible. The weather in fact, that's any of that's going to happen. I can't predict. I don't see how it could not happen. Set the example of Iran will force willy-nilly changes in not only the apparent but real pictures of the teams in the area and they begin to examine what really happened in Iran. What really happened in Iran? I don't know better than I do. But I think we would both agree that it was a mass movement that is that social economic and political undertones, but that it was mobilized by the symbols of the past. Islam Every sector of the society no matter what they thought about it. So I'm prepared to revolt against the Shah. Under the banner of something everybody understood and felt. And this will happen again. I believe elsewhere in there, but I don't think the Iranian Revolution will ever be reproduced exactly the way it was in Egypt. In anywhere else that you might mention but that anyway, she came in the area in the Muslim world that does not take into account the fact of its history. That does not time bring some. Harmony back into the life of its people in terms of where it is and where it's going. Anyways, you know this fact in the future. I will not survive. And anyway GM in the western world that does not acknowledge that this change has taken place. Would be playing with disaster since most of them should have tried every strategic Waterway every strategic land mass every Model T in the world. If you are all why you would convert to Islam. bad maybe on this side When the oil is all gone, they have all the Sun. And solar energy is all the the ultimate source today. I just want to include. by suggesting that that's why I wanted a silent but deadly force in Mideast turmoil midi sundress. It really is a Madness the madness. I've spent 30 years in my career studying this. Phenomena of the intellectual coming to grips with Muslims coming to grips with their themselves. And it's it's deadly to use the word using this title is deadly for the Western World to conceive of this as a passing phenomena, that will die out when the oil runs out all that. It just suddenly happened. This is been a turbulence in a turmoil that is more and more active as indeed oil power has coming to be but that is not a thing that will pass with passing of the Ayatollah Khomeini. That's That's a classic example of the most interesting of all what I was talking about the Arab regimes not a rock claims to have a revolutionary raging Party Rock is in the usual example because it is ruled by a Sunni minority. So that there was a religious Dimensions again. Let me begin with I think the real concern is I don't I think the araki leadership must be concerned about she adjust content spilling over across the frontier, but far more importantly that concern about the idea of mass resistance because they rocket regime is radiohead's didn't buy two. Major groups of courage in the North and the chairs in the house so that the rock is particularly sensitive to the Rumblings coming across from here on now in addition you have this this is Todd conflict over the frontier of Iran and Iraq and you have on the other side a weapon the Rockies have cards and RV conversions, it could be, but that it seems to me as one of the most interesting of all the present examples of a radical regime, which should be in harmony with the Revolutionary goals of the regime what which of the reigning raging but which is in fact, you know, the president of Iran just accused accused of being in collusion with the United States. I don't think there's an alliance but I have no doubt there including the araki that suddenly become a moderate to the area making a lion. Saudi Arabia still going to defend the gulf and we have a situation of enormous importance developing right at the Persian Gulf.