And this is weekend on MPR. It's 12 and a half minutes past 12:00 noon. Conch, I think Alicia shy being done. And if you've been listening Halfway Around the World to can't on people's broadcasting station. That's how the time check would have sound the time that we just gave you a few minutes ago. And the recording of that was just brought back to this country by NPR music hosts and announcer Fred Steiner friends in the studio with me this afternoon because in addition to being an expert on classical music, he's also an avid China Watcher. He speaks the language and as travel to the People's Republic with the University of Minnesota concert band, I believe and has some stories to tell about his visit and he's also brought back some tapes. What was it Fred that that the trip was really tell me a little bit about the trip and and how it was that you came to be going with. Well, I accompanied the concert bands who was going over on a really a two-week tour of the six most important cities musically in China. Including Shanghai peaking Nanking Hangzhou and Canton five of which they played in also Sue Joe and the band was performing pretty much along the lines of what one could call I guess contemporary or popular concert band music exposing the Chinese really for the first time to a whole new genre of music and paralleling in a way. It's trip 11 years ago to the Soviet Union the University of Minnesota concert band is certainly one of the most noted bands around the country and this began what is hoped to be a whole series of exchanges of Youth music group's between China and the US. So this was a very important almost missionary like trip in terms of cultural exchange. How long were you there the trippy and China itself was about two weeks in duration and they were a few days before in Hong Kong and a few days after as well and it sounded like a lot of cities. I didn't count but two weeks and several cities. You must have been going constantly. That's To the the band members were on the Move really at the pace of any professional Group performing anywhere in the world. Usually one performance in each City with some sightseeing in the morning and by afternoon, they were rehearsing and in the evening, they were playing to packed houses. So it was for the students at least a very long and quite sufficiently demanding trip. But also when I think none of them will ever forget how would how was the band received very very well. In fact by just about anybody's standards. It was a very big Smash in China Chinese audiences are reputed to be the most cool of audiences in the world rich and certainly any tapes I've ever heard of performances done either in Peking itself or really around the country have always given very polite some sort of Applause indications, but never anything that one would call a few Savannah yet. This trip was very very different right from the outset. From Shanghai onward the Chinese people were amazed and delighted with the performance and it was beyond anybody's expectations including some hard-bitten news reporters in Peking of American journalistic Community. They were just amazed. There is an article in this week's Atlantic magazine and I haven't read it but I'm told that it it suggests that the Chinese are yearning to be Western that they're really eager to gobble up anything. That's from the West is that true Did you sense that at all? I think that's a slightly misleading statements. There are elements of truth to it and perhaps not I think the Chinese are interested in many of the positive aspects of what we call westernization. If you mean for instance economic level military strength industrial strength Etc. Yes, they are very interested in but westernization in the more broad sense of the values of say Materialistic consumption they are not and while that may be very trite statement almost to say since they are course the country of socialist and and ultimately they hope communist aspirations. I think it's very true. The Chinese have been really in throughout their entire 20th century history, very good at taking from foreigners what they want and leaving the rest behind and I don't think anybody who watches the country very much is going to doubt the fact the Chinese are going to not follow our path exactly which is a fairly exciting prospect to be frank a lot has happened. It seems to me in China and since the mid-1960s when the cultural revolution was going on and University professors were being told they had to go to the countryside and work for a portion of each year on a farm and we heard an awful lot about Barefoot doctors in the late 60s and early 70s and they almost became idealized in this country by some people the idea of someone who could get Training but not a great deal of training certainly not the six to eight years of physician undergoes in this country and go out and do some medical treatment where it was was needed are those and other things that were so popular during the 1960s and China are those things still continuing or has the the Downing of the gang of four taking a lot of that down with it and are the Chinese moving toward more toward a specialized Society. Well by those things if you mean some of the Romantic ideas of say the Barefoot doctor, I would say the Barefoot doctor concept is his one. The Chinese are going to need for a long time primarily because of the the problems of scale that they face. They simply don't have a medical community large enough to handle a population of nearly a billion people especially when 800 million of them are in the countryside and very hard to get to but I'll come back to that in a moment. I think the period of the gang of four is you hear the term What one might call a euphemism by the Chinese for ten year period from 1966 until 1976 which far exceeds the actual period in which for people who have been named The Gang of four had any sort of rule it is the period from the fall really of Leo shaoqi who was the for a while the chairman of the Republic and regarded by many as the successor to Malta dong his falling 1966 began a period of what one could only call both anti-intellectualism of an incredible scale and almost a self well almost a suicide of the society in terms of what we consider the basic elements and what I mean by that is that not only were professors sent to the countryside but anybody of schedule a specialized skill or any kind of learning whatsoever was was vilified and sent away and as a result, it wasn't possible for the Chinese for nearly 10 years to develop the kind of specialist as you might use the term now. Who need to run any sort of company any sort of bureaucratic Enterprise doctors teachers any of the basic elements of intellect that go on a knitting Society the effort was to avoid specialization and to avoid an elite corps that would run the country. Well, I think the the cultural revolution had a lot of a lot of aspects to it not all of which anybody understands certainly I don't but it was really a period of tearing apart of the society mom's doing who everybody of course in the west thinks of is the father of the Chinese Revolution and he certainly is was beginning to show his age in 1966 and actually had been through a period of what would only be called embarrassing failures in terms of economic policy and leave us out. She had been doing an awful lot to maintain what one might call a pragmatic line. His idea was let's not talk ideals politically. Let's talk reality. How do we go about getting factories to increase production? How do we go about getting more people educated? You know, why do we have the problems we have in our society and what do we do about them? And so the cultural revolution was not simply at first anyway much more than a power play on perhaps malted owns part perhaps others, but for some reason it caught on in the Chinese toward themselves apart in a way that frankly until you go to the country and C is almost unbelievable. I mean, I read rich now for years about what took place there, and it was until I actually saw and talked to some of the people who live through that period but saw their country and what it has done to them in terms of what we regard as progress in society that you can realize the extent to which the Chinese were stopped dead in their tracks and they'd only been going for what about 16 years or People's Republic was founded in 49 in October of that year. So yes about 15 years during which essentially I suppose one could oversimplify and say Malta doing saw his Revolution coming to an end. In a society now needing to stop revolting and start doing things and he obviously wasn't ready for it and perhaps the other forces that were involved weren't either and so as a result he tried to mount a cultural revolutions called the Great proletarian Cultural Revolution. And again, there's a lot more to it than what I've said, but at least one can say it was an attempt to keep going something that perhaps had run its course and that's inevitable when a society no longer needs to be worrying about Revolution but needs to start reconstructing and heading in a particular direction that can often smack of what communist and Marxist referred to as revisionism and they were very much trying to avoid what they saw is that at the time but the pragmatic people in the government including Leo Shawty were out in 66 Leo charge lyosha cheese friends include among others don't shell pink and we now know of his as a very important man in the government and Rowan lie, who was of course very well respected by the Chinese but Who eventually himself ran into troubles and died almost conveniently and 75 before he was in real political trouble but since the fall of the gang of four which happened in 1976 late 76 the Chinese have managed to reverse things and now the pragmatists are in government and all of the left-wingers as we might call them or people who are more interested in ideology than pragmatic concerns almost all of them have been perched at this point. So it's a reversal almost completely back to 66. But now the entire Society has had his run of of ideals and is now looking towards a pragmatic concerns. I would say so University professors are not it's not as likely to find them working for part of a year out in the rice field as it was until virtually. None are everybody is back in the University. Most of them have been reinstated to their former positions. Those whose health is good enough. Anyway, a lot of them suffered too much to really be of any use any longer but those who managed to survive well are back in power and The country is moving as quickly as it can to rebuild what can't be rebuilt. You make it sound almost like at least in some cases. These people were subjected to very severe kinds of situations. Well, again, it varies individual to individual but yes some were subjected to physical abuse some were put in prison for long periods of time and their health deteriorated to the point where well for instance leader Shashi died in 1969. He was not that old that he should not have survived longer but it depended on who put them in prison. It was a very disorganized Revolution if you will it took place in 66 as a matter of fact the Army put it down in 68, but much of the damage had been done and once anti-intellectualism of that severest scope takes place. Well it took until 76 before they was possible to admit to the mistake and start doing something and I think that what amazes American certainly makes most the people long in the store was the extent to which the Chinese Willing to out-and-out admits that they had really made a drastic error in the Oriental tradition face-saving is extremely important it far more than in our own and to admit to an error of the way they do so honestly is very unusual. Although there are ritual aspects to how they do it. Also it is phenomenal and it can only come from you know, a realization from the grass roots from The Peasants on up that something drastically went wrong and we need to do something about it that sort of write down in the bait base of one's heart sort of concern that just phenomenal to behold when you actually get to the country Fred. I want to ask you about conditions now in China and the situations that you you encountered in the two weeks that you were there, but you brought some tape along that might illustrate at least a little bit give us a glimpse of some of the sounds of some of the city's you visited and perhaps you could tell us a little bit about that and we could hear some of that. Okay, these excerpts are Normally from fleeting moments. I had to sneak away from the group usually in the early morning. And as a matter of fact, so this first tape which will roll in right now is the sound recorded at a park right along the riverfront in Shanghai. Shanghai is the largest industrial city in China and it is a city of incessant activity is about the best way to describe it. What you're hearing is the sound of either a fairy or a steamer or a launch moving across the huangpu river, which is a large brown colored river that runs right down the Heart of the City and if you were a typical Shanghai residents, you would be at the our I recorded this out doing your Tai Chi exercises. You're shadowboxing exercises in the park. It runs right along the riverfront Shanghai at this hour which was about 5:30 a.m. Was already 80 degrees warm and getting warmer is the our progressed and it was impossible to for the most most residents any way to stay inside at that hour. They had to get out and move around. And so what you see in most Chinese cities such as Shanghai is something we don't see in this country really and that is just constant constant human motion and activity going to play another excerpt from Shanghai also and that is the sound of crossing a bridge perhaps the most one of the most notable bridges in the Shanghai area again, you hear in this combination both the sound of the boats moving through but also bicycles moving by because in China there aren't personal cars and so bicycle sounds are primarily what you hear. But also you hear what I think kept most of the band members awake the first time and that was that honking of horns in the background that is not our concept of honking where you simply honk it a driver who's in your way. These are bus drivers and truck drivers honking at bicyclists so that they'll get out of the way and allow the truck to move by the reason for that is that there are so many people using the roads and there so few. Even in Shanghai that a vehicle has to knows its way through and it winds back and forth across the road our concept of a lane just doesn't exist in China. So people on bicycles simply just listen and when they hear something behind them honking its horn they just all have to move over exactly and this rather grudgingly that they often move off to the side. We ran across three or four almost near accidents as we would think of them anyway, because the bicycle drivers are so hard-bitten now about those vehicles moving by that when you consider that there are so few buses and and cars per person in China. They are the exception rather than the rule so our concept of Motor Safety and and motor rights of way and all of that just doesn't exist and it it was impossible to adjust to that in the two weeks there. We've just heard a little bit of Shanghai. I want to play also an excerpt from a smaller city in China when we didn't perform in but rather just visited and that's suture, which is historically a very important city in China, but this is perhaps what more Chinese would he If they were walking along a typical Market Place in China and that is talking constantly your hearing little the pseudo language and bicycles everywhere there were in this to square block area at least 5,000 bicycles parked or being moved and those are bicycle bells going the same relationship exists to the bicycles are signaling to pedestrians to move out of the way and people just step aside to allow bicycle by it's almost an unconscious motion, but there is a can just listen to that for just a second. And this was in a city not a large city, but a city of about a hundred thousand you said well, no, it's more than that. I'm not sure exactly what the population of pseudo is by it would be our equivalent of a 100,000 person City. So it's probably eight or nine hundred thousand by Chinese standards. That's small in China. Although it is it is a great City in terms of its historical background. I wouldn't know the exact population, but what you notice rich in traveling there is that your ears and and all senses are assaulted constantly by motion and activity while in our country. We're not used to that we're used to quiet and maybe Urban traffic but you get off the street into a quiet room, and that's it. But as you heard that kind of sound in activity surrounds the Chinese all day and in fact part of the night since most living quarters are very thin-walled and they're usually eight or nine people per three-room apartment in China. Does that take its toll and mental health? Do you know? I don't know that but I think it would for us. I'm not sure that if one were accustomed to that it would be so difficult. More excerpting going to play and the reason I picked this third one. It may be the most prosaic as far as our ears our concern. You're about to hear traffic moving along tian'anmen Square in peeking itself. And what's different is they're very few bicycles here and you're hearing a PA system on a bus going by the moment. But this is much more urban. This is much more like our concept of City. There's a lot of traffic there no personal cars still but there's a good deal more bus activity and Bicycles of course exist in large numbers, but what's amazing and in Peking is that it's a much different city a much more urban Urbane City in both senses of the to cognate words and it's a city that is moving very rapidly along but when Michael modernization throughout all of China, we saw old buildings that were not being maintained. It's one of the most striking things is that buildings dating back to the 20s are still around but they are they need washing they need repairing and nothing is done about it because there's so little money to spend on That while in Peking they were prefab houses going up incredible amounts of construction and speaking literally today looks a good deal different than it did even six months ago. They are moving with excessive speed almost to build that City up into what in 10 years. They hope to be one of the most modern cities in the world and for China, that's a an incredible goal to take to do even try you had some difficulty in recording the sounds at least recording them for any length of time tell me about that. Well, because the Chinese I guess because of the activity and and sort of mode they're used to are amazed by westerners still whenever they see us and they tend to immediately want to come over and look at you and I notice any time I set up my recorder to record for instance along the huangpu river in Shanghai actually while I was talking there were sounds underneath there of me talking with the Chinese. It was impossible to set up a microphone and simply try to catch them in their natural form. They immediately want to know who I was where I was. And when they heard it was America and they want to know all about the country. The Curiosity of the Chinese about us is very strong right now and very for Americans at least for a refreshing and it proved to be impossible to say to go anywhere and record them in their typical mode without having a crowd formed in about five seconds where they surprised that you could speak their language. Yes, I wouldn't say I speak it but at least I attempted it. Yes, they were and and English was not well known in the country even yet. It's still a very new thing. And so they for the most part didn't want to try English, but we're much more willing to help me with my Chinese. So I benefited tremendously from a trip that way Fred Steiner is our guest on weekend this afternoon Fred, of course a music announcer and host for MPR, but also China China scholar of sorts, and he's just back from the People's Republic of China and we'd like to invite you to ask questions of Fred. If you'd like, you can give us a call here at our Saint Paul Studios, if you're listening in the Twin Cities area, you can call us. It to to 11550 that's to to 11550. If you're listening to us outside the Twin Cities, but in Minnesota call us toll-free on our wats line at number is 1-800-695-1418. 652 9700 in the Twin Cities number again is to to 11550. If you'd like to ask a question of Fred Steiner who's just come back from the People's Republic of China. And while we're waiting for some calls to come in. We have a couple on the line right now. We'll wait for a couple more and let me sneak one more question. And in that that has to do with with current housing in China. There was an article in the New York Times earlier this week, which indicated that in Peking. There was a sort of an apartment Fair where people could come and trade Apartments. Is it difficult to find housing in China? And once you have it as it hard to it, it seems that would be very hard to move. You. Can't just pick up. As we do in this country. Yes, there are two major problems China faces at the moment Rich that the two most pressing our housing shortages and power shortages and we noticed on the trip that again looking at the average apartment in China eight or nine people often two families were sharing a three-room apartment in the cases of separate Apartments often kitchens were shared living space is a problem because of the rapid increase in population Way Way Beyond any any Norm that the people have dealt with before and power shortages were the second we found that air conditioning was only grudgingly turned on not because they weren't very happy to provide air conditioning. But because it meant taking away power from a factory or something else in China today often Factory shut down for a day or two because of brownouts because of the fact there just isn't enough power generated and the amount of capital to produce power of course is a problem for a country that has been up until now not borrowing money has been instead very much trying to On its own they discovered that to expand rapidly industrially they are they are in real trouble for several years and finding enough electricity just to run a factory. Are they using nuclear power for electricity? Do you know I have not heard of any so far in part I think because there's no need for it in China natural resources are available hydroelectric power coal. And and oil, of course, they're all available in large amounts. It's a matter rather of getting the plants built a nuclear plants are longer to build and they have no need for them. So at least as far as I know they are not let's go to a caller. We have a few on the line. Good morning. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question. Thank you. This is Don Siegel from South Minneapolis. And I have a question about food and China my wife and I love Chinese food and my question is are there many Chinese restaurants. So to speak and in China and do our they patronized by the Chinese. Well, I didn't see what I would say would be a large number of such rare. Rounds except in Peking which is known for its cuisine almost worldwide as far as the local patronizing of restaurants. I would say most of them looked like more our concept of a cafeteria Chinese food is of course in its formal form is extremely interesting and complex. But the average Chinese does not eat that most of the time it's fairly prosaic and as a result most restaurants that I saw that were only for local people. We're like our concept of a cafeteria or an automat that sort of thing but the food was very simple was very at least it to me. It smells very good, but I didn't see anything which would be the equivalent of our concept of a Chinese restaurant that is a almost a western concept again, except in Peking and in a couple of other cities in the country where food is a specialty are there any restaurants that from other nationalities or German restaurants in Peking How likely a no as a matter of fact, there are foreign restaurants a couple of my colleagues and television apparently sneaked over to a western restaurant and had a very good meal and at a very good price turned out I wasn't interested in western food. So I guess I didn't check much what I saw is the most exotic food was a Mongolian restaurant where we had food that which to the Chinese typical Chinese would be very exotic and it was extremely good. So at least in Peking the variety of restaurants is just phenomenal. It's beyond one's wildest expectation. Let's go to another caller. Good afternoon. We're listening for your question. Good afternoon Mel Boynton from Maple Plain Minnesota, and I was listening to your program and cleaning my bicycle this morning. I understand from another friend that went to China but there are security over there is quite a different story than we experience here. I locked up my bicycle as I put it back in the garage. I wonder if mr. Steiner has any comment about security and locking things up. Well, the reputation of China right now is that it is probably the most honest country in the world. It is true that for foreigners. There is no need for instance to lock hotel rooms. Although we were provided with locks. I think was more for security among the groups and it was as far as the Chinese were concerned. But in reality the Chinese do lock their bicycles theft is a problem in China and I have seen printed in the the party magazines articles about bicycle theft. It is a problem primarily because bicycles are in such demand. There are only I can't remember the number but it's some paltry sum like 11 million bicycles in a country of 900 and some million people and the demand is so great that theft is a problem as it would be in any society where a product is not in great enough Supply. So surprisingly according to the you know, what we hear in this country. There is security problems. The the difference I think is that in China. There's a whole network of what one might call the equivalent of our neighborhood vigilante group every person in any Urban. Or even agricultural area has a role to play in these groups and they serve more than just a vigilante purpose there the ways in which the party communicates information back and forth in the populace, but one of their functions is that nobody can really commit a crime in China without being seen by somebody. They're just too many people around and as a result, I think I've seen a figure published that the average crime in China is solved within 24 hours and they're they're solving rate is something like 97 percent which is just phenomenal. But if you have that kind of network of communication, you can't get away with much so they may get stolen but they're back pretty soon. Fred Steiner talking about his recent visit to China and if you'd like to ask him a question this afternoon, give us a call at 2 2 1 1 5 5 0 we have some lines open 221 1550 in the Twin Cities or if you're listening to us outside the Twin Cities. Call us at 1-800-669-9133. 1-800-662-2386 go to another caller right now. Good afternoon. You're on the air. Hello. Go ahead. You're on the air. Good morning. Yes, go ahead. We're listening to your question. I wonder if Fred mention he could speak Chinese. Is there a difficulty going from one part of the country to another with dialects hers are Universal Chinese dialect has used throughout the country. Yes, and no there is a universal language which is what is taught in this country. It's sometimes mistakenly called Mandarin. It really is called by the Chinese standard Chinese. It's the language of Peking and environs and all Chinese are taught it as part of their school system their educational system is very good, by the way, and as a result all at least officially know it but you are rights that there are enormous linguistic differences in the country. There are I think eight or nine depending on how you want to classify them living Chinese languages all of which are very very different. I guess the extremes would be about as different as English to Dutch. So there is no way for people who for instance grew up in Shanghai to speak to somebody from Canton in their Language so they use standard Chinese as the medium of medium of communication, but naturally as most human beings do they pronounce it with an accents and I discovered that probably the most treacherous accent was that of Shanghai. I had the most trouble there. I guess I'd had more exposure to Cantonese speakers trying to speak standard Chinese and as a result gradually learned how to compensate but the Shanghai speakers were were almost impossible. Even when speaking at least they thought standard Chinese and one simply learns to I suppose any Foreigner does to do a lot of guessing as to what it must be by context and it certainly gave me quite a bit of firsthand exposure to how to deal with the language Under Fire that I hadn't expected. Very good. Let's go to another caller was waiting to ask a question. Good afternoon. You're on the air. Yeah. It's pretty good for Minneapolis. I'd like to ask what do you know anything about the political situation concerning dissidents and poster? Posting posters and billboards by people who may disagree with the government Etc. I understand that. There's been a Crackdown. That's correct. And a fairly severe one is a matter of fact, which I think surprised some in the west since we saw such a change in political power in China, it was natural to assume that many of the accoutrements of our concept of of political Justice and democracy would follow but I think that that was clearly dispelled not too long ago. We drove by what was called the Freedom Wall in the western press for a long time. That isn't the Chinese name for it anyway, and it was of course now just a prosaic area with a few posters about concerts going on and that was it as far as I know. They are only allowing a few small areas of for what were called large character posters, but for all intents and purposes don't see how being signaled about two months ago that that was all over and this Governments is by every measure that one would want to come up with is not interested in popular descent. The Communist Party in China is firmly in control and intends to stay that way. And so despite the fact that they're moving in some ways towards what we consider to be modernization. That's I think why I cautioned rich at the beginning about westernization because the idea of political dissent is not something that is going to be as far as I can tell in any way part of the Chinese system for a long time. However, I would say that dissidents in our sense is a little bit different also from the Chinese concept of such they do make a very big distinction between what they call counter-revolutionaries which are what we would call dissidents and complaints about the system and the Chinese the matter of fact are very interested in their populist complaining about the system. And the reason for that in part is that the government is just as concerned about its itself. We tend to think the Chinese government runs everything but like any I guess the best analogy I can think of is the China is sort of like the US Army Nobody really runs it and if you enter it enter into the system, you do your best to survive with what you know, and you may even reach a certain rank, but ultimately nobody's running the show and that is true. I suppose in any country but certainly in China and as a result the government itself is anxious to undo what they call bureaucratization and many of the problems of the past involving the Chinese attitude towards work and productivity and the government is almost itself encouraging dissent in the form of complaints about everyday things. How do they distinguish between complaints and and dissidents of the kind of something we would call dissidents? Well, as long as you don't question the right of the Communist Party to govern you are not a counterrevolutionary or dissident if you complain about the fact that your street needs repair that you can't get a the housing that you want that is very acceptable. In fact encouraged if you want to complain that a Communist is not fulfilling his duty as a good communist and not not exhorting the masses to the proper level of productivity saying in Factory that is perfectly acceptable. But if you wish to question the Communist system where all the Socialist system they do not claim to be communist or the the Communist party's right to govern then you are not allowed to speak and you are deprived of political rights as the government refers to it. Well, we have more listeners waiting to ask you questions Fred. So let's go down the person right now. Good afternoon. You're on the air. Yeah, I would like to ask if they have any symphony orchestras or solo was a play western music. Yes. They do. There are two very well-known orchestras in China at least the play western music the Shanghai Philharmonic. I met several people from that group and also the central Philharmonic which is the equivalent of the peaking Philharmonic in in peeking itself their musical standards vary, at least from what I've managed to here so far as far as soloists, Play western music one was here at Northrop Auditorium that is here in the sense of Minneapolis. St. Paul in 1978. Legal. Sure Quinn is his name. He also you may have heard him on our Boston Symphony Orchestra concerts of about a year ago. He and another Chinese soloist performed with seiji Ozawa and Boston and he specialty two years ago was music of list. I think it was the first piano concerto maybe the second but in any case it was one of the two and he has for the most part stuck to what one might call flamboyant music we did manage during the band's visit to see both the Shanghai conservatory and the central Conservatory in Peking which are the school training grounds for people who then go into these two orchestras and I can assure you that some of the students that I heard especially in Shanghai are going to be marvelous. They have very good technique very very youthful and and energetic sense of how to play they are lacking primarily. Any sort of understanding of how our music is meant to express ideas. You can very much Telly there's a foreigner playing music by Foreigner. I mean a foreigner to Western civilization, but their technique is phenomenally good and that's something that's just beginning since about 1975. Is that right? 1978 says when these conservatories reopen in three years, they're producing students of that caliber. It's phenomenal really is it's coming up on 11 minutes before one o'clock. And that means we still have some time to take more calls and we have some callers waiting. So let's go to another one right now. Good afternoon. Yes. I was wondering what Forum organized Athletics takes in China, whether there any professional athletes and what was the Chinese perception of participation in our boycott of the Olympics. There's quite a bit of organization of athletes at various levels. I must admit that I'm not totally familiar with all of the various forms, but I know the government's well, I'll put it this way China faces as I said before an incredible problem of scale and ultimately, In both intellects and in physical areas such as physical education. What they have discovered is there is no way to educate most Chinese use in the way that we would like to think of it being done that is through high school or even a college level of education and as a result students of intellectual or athletic promise are selected out of the average students in China at a very early age and are put in special schools. Sometimes they call palaces children's palaces in in the major cities, but in special areas where they are given accelerated learning and also specialized curricula to improve very quickly their skills. And as a result China I think is coming along tremendously quickly in all those areas, but certainly in the athletic area but in doing so again, if we if you want to to talk in terms of numbers a very small percentage of Chinese students for instance are allowed to to perform at all. In any sort of organized athletic process and so as a result we did see for instance at one of the hotels. We were at in Peking we managed to see one of the other buildings in the complex being used to house athletes who were training out early in the morning basketball. Let's see, what else was involved swimming badminton just a whole range of things and they received very good Training as far as the Olympics go. The Chinese government was very quick to jump on the bandwagon against the Soviet Union is of course extremely anti-soviet. And as a results despite the fact that the Chinese were for the first time going to be allowed to play in the Olympics in terms of things being ruled in their favor. They they stepped out very quickly and without any regret whatsoever. As far as the political end of things are concerned obviously Athletics, like anything else in China is all subject to political concerns. And when the government said, no that was it so they did have a team that they could have sent but they absolutely absolutely okay. Well nine minutes before one o'clock. And we have more callers on the line. Let's go to another person right now. Good afternoon you on the air. Good afternoon. I'm calling from Lake Elmo Minnesota. I would like to ask your guest about his observations of religious freedom in China. Did you notice any churches while you were there in our people truly free to worship as they wish? I can't say that I had much exposure to experience like that churches were for the most part just reopens within the past year or so. We did run across a group that was on its way to Peking that consisted primarily of theologians and those interested in religious concerns in China, but they were waiting to get to be king before reaching conclusions. So I never did get a chance to visit with them and learn of their experiences. I would say as far as religious freedom is concerned that there doesn't seem to be much indication of the government is concerned about it since very few people in the country do worship at this point, but those who do wish to and can find a church or place of worship as far as I know are not being discouraged from doing so Okay, let's go to another caller right now. Good afternoon. You're on the air. Yes, you mentioned some party magazines were published what kinds of literature or Publications are available to the local people for reading my local people. I'm not sure whether you mean those here or in China itself in China. There are large range of Publications available to the populous including the party newspaper and the party magazine, which is would translate as red flag to us. They are not widely. Well, I shouldn't say they aren't widely read they are certainly read but but not with a great deal of enthusiasm. Is anybody wouldn't after reading even a company newspaper after a while, you've heard all the stories before recently. There's been an explosion of Publications in China and well, I walked into one of the largest bookstores in Peking and the magazine racks were just brimming with information about all ranges of ideas and topics of I guess economics would probably be one of the strongest Is it comes to mind but certainly the other would be a drama and Peking Opera and then all kinds of scientific and geological Pursuits. So very quickly Publications are coming back into form but almost all of them are non-political I've seen very little expansion of the party organs as far as information goes because they've been around a long anything from the West Time Magazine. No, I saw nothing at all from the West that although I did hear from somebody in Nanking that now 10 minutes of the ABC Evening News is being fed on the Chinese television system. So they are getting for the first time some Western news directly from Western sources. I assume it's fed with Chinese subtitles. But because people are practicing English so much there's a large interest in the part of the government in letting them hear such things. The voice of America for instance is no longer jammed and most Chinese. I talked to had heard the video as a matter of fact, that's what they were using to try to guess it what kind of music they were going to hear before the performance. They were saying was it like what I hear on the VOA? So the VOA is very much listened to in China at least in the major cities where I was speaking of the music that they were to here. We can hear that music here in the Twin Cities this weekend. Is that right? That is correct. We have both a chance to hear the music that was performed in China in two forms. I suppose we hope to in the future offer a program that will are some of the recordings that I made in China, but if you want to hear the concert band itself and it is well worth listening to Tomorrow at Northrop Auditorium at 8 o'clock. The band will be performing its final concert one, which is very important to the band's success on this trip in that much of the money necessary to get this trip underway was earned but there is still a little bit more to go and given the impression that this band made on the Chinese and the impression that the Chinese now have a Minnesota if you are I think interested in what the state state is in the resources, it has it. Well be worth your time to head on down to Northrop and participate the I sat on the orchestra pit and I was the person who for the most part first talk to the Chinese because the band members were up on stage and virtually everybody said when I said this is the Minnesota University of Minnesota concert band. Where is Minnesota? He was it near Boston and that question may sound crazy until you realize that the Boston Symphony was there and there a concept of music was that everything was come from Boston it made sense. So I explained that it was in a very different part of the country and where it was and I the best I could do to get any registry at all was to senior Canada that made sense the north central part of the u.s. And near Canada, but now Minnesota means something to music goers in all of the major cities of China and this States means a lot more to them than all others and this trip I think made a very big difference that way and if you if you feel like participating in that process, it's a very good concert. It was visually extremely interesting as well as acoustically And that I think is why it succeeded. So well, it was a flashy fun enjoyable evening of entertainment and very different than our sort of serious classical music and the Chinese were amazed delighted and very receptive to the band performance and again eight o'clock tomorrow evening at Northrop Auditorium on the campus of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis for that concert. Let's take another call. We have three minutes now before one o'clock and and at least time for one more call, good afternoon. You're on the air Robert Augustine from Edina. I wanted to ask what are the possibilities for private travels within China. Let's say own car without participating in a guided tour. Well, they're very slim at this point. I think most people presuppose that that is because it is impossible to get the government to approve such things. But in reality, they're just there isn't really enough room for even the organized tours of tourists in China. And so private travel is just impossible it is of course a country where movement of its own. Pilar is very carefully controlled and I think it would be unlikely to expect that foreigners would be allowed to move around with freedom. There would be no way to buy gasoline anyway for your private car outside of the major cities. So and roads in China are very few and they're in very good shape because they rarely used but I would say the chance of private travel in China for a long time is a slim possibility. It's government officials who have cars government officials. Yes, and of course private cabs, you can always hire a cab to go anywhere you want but I would say I didn't even see government officials for the most part doing that. Most people roll with us on the bus. Well Fred. Thanks very much for for being my guest this afternoon. I'm afraid we're out of time and I still have a couple of callers on the line and we apologize and and perhaps we can have you back again sometime. I also want to thank Joanne Mueller who handled the telephone calls this afternoon and our technical director was Fred wasser. We have a listening reminder for you that at five o'clock this afternoon on NPR the Prairie Home Companion show comes your way and Garrison keillor's guest tonight include the barbershop quartet the happiness Emporium and also with Garrison tonight on the program Willie Claudia Schmidt and the new Prairie Ramblers. That's the Prairie Home Companion show at five o'clock on NPR and tickets for that show go on sale at 3:30. The show will be outside today in the sculpture garden at the Ramsey Arts and Science Center in st. Paul. Time is coming up on one o'clock. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio a listener-supported service.