(00:00:00) In Hibbing in Mankato in Faribault in Rochester in Alexandria, Minnesota, all of the places that are rather smaller evening papers are doing fine. Thank you very much and they still serve a very important function in a smaller (00:00:20) town. (00:00:23) The big chains have been quick to go after small town newspapers. As you may be aware three-quarters of the newspapers in the country are the evenings. (00:00:38) most of them are smaller papers the star (00:00:44) has had a problem because it like other evening papers the community has shifted on it. Had shifted on it and it failed quite to catch up with where the community (00:00:55) had gone. (00:00:59) And in a smaller size tone. The evening newspaper still serves the function of providing the community input that town needs to have. (00:01:12) To be a community. It's still reports the basic kinds of things. (00:01:20) There's no usually in a smaller town. You don't have four television stations pumping away. You don't have 60 as we have an the outskirts are ins in Minneapolis and st. Paul 60 Shoppers 33 weeklies. You don't have that in Faribault, right? You don't have that in Alexandria. You don't have 33 radio stations constantly pumping at information. I think Minneapolis-Saint Paul may have information overload as New York Chicago (00:01:52) Boston. That's not true in Alexandria. (00:01:55) It's not true in Hibbing where my mother was born by the way. Bemidji where I used to go to Camp, it's just it's different second. We have to consider Sunbelt versus the frost built if you will there are some evening newspapers doing okay in the sun in the sun in the Sun Belt, but I would like to point out to you that even in Dallas which is 10 growing like crazy. They are they're going to eat from evening the evening paper there the time show is going from evening to morning circulation as quickly as it can switching its paper and the most recent circulation figures. I've (00:02:36) got right here in my hand for evening newspapers. (00:02:39) I was alarmed to see a decline (00:02:41) even there in the last six months in circulation (00:02:47) and there are some reasons for that (00:02:49) which I'll talk to you about. I'm just looking for for Dallas (00:02:53) Dallas dropped (00:02:55) eight thousand subscribers in them. In a year, (00:03:00) that's it's a problem. (00:03:03) Next question is why is it a problem? (00:03:06) It's a problem because people have changed their way of living has (00:03:09) changed. (00:03:14) It used to be that the typical Minneapolis Star reader say mmm. Trudge to work 5:30 in the morning lunch pail under his arm. Get home early in the afternoon say to 231 home in the streetcar. This was a (00:03:28) streetcar Town went home on The Trolley and streetcar and you know, (00:03:33) the old caricature of the dog getting the school the slippers in the newspaper and all that needs it and the wife would cook dinner while he would read the paper and that's how he got his information. (00:03:47) Often the only thing to do after room after (00:03:49) eating a team dinner was to listen to the Raider radio whether it was Fibber McGee and Molly or whatever lights out you're too young for that some of those programs and read the paper. (00:04:01) What are the typical (00:04:02) Minneapolis Star reader comes home now goes to work maybe at nine (00:04:06) o'clock when I come to work before (00:04:09) seven. It delights at Honeywell aren't on you. Those people are computer people work at different a time (00:04:14) frame. (00:04:17) And let me also say that you know, 45% of Minneapolis was was working class 30 years ago when the star was King. Statewide and about fifteen to twenty percent is now the new people who have come are in service Industries and the retailing (00:04:35) by and large (00:04:36) they go to work later and they get home later. They get home at six or seven people taking another Workaholics didn't exist so much 30 years ago. So people are average reader now might come home at them. Say 5:30. So dinner in the microwave turn on the last 15 minutes of the NBC Evening News. Wait for the spouse to get home, you know. Then when she gets home and you noticed I switched Sexes on you. They gobbled down their dinner and then they go out to to the Guthrie or to the (00:05:13) Minnesota Symphony up to the twins of the Vikings or (00:05:17) do all the wonderful outdoor things is state is known for (00:05:20) and they don't have time to read the evening paper. (00:05:23) They've picked up those little Snippets of news. They need to be citizens of the community by and large on Minnesota Public Radio. If you will WCCO and a DriveTime radio, they're on what Cannon where they watch (00:05:38) television. The Advent of (00:05:42) the working woman phenomenon this and has an enormous impact. On evening newspapers and similarly an interesting impact on morning newspapers because as the Disposable time as it were has switched from evening to morning and so morning these papers have a built-in bias. (00:06:02) Well, mr. Isaac's doesn't this I hate to put in such blunt terms. This isn't this mean that there's a limited need for paper like the star. (00:06:11) Let me turn the question around on you but we have had to redefine what an evening newspaper is in a big city (00:06:17) market what (00:06:20) when we originally started examining the whole question of what we were doing here. The star was a 1940's newspaper being published in 1978 when I got here. Competing with the electronics if you will for spot breaking news, we would crush in anything into print as long as it happened, you know recently there was no value system IE ranking in terms of importance. It was only what was latest chasing fires if you will. And so we sat down and examine. What the heck are we doing? And what are they doing in Los Angeles where you're from? Why is the (00:06:55) herald-examiner going down so fast (00:06:58) and what's happening in Washington with the star there and in Philadelphia and in Boston where there's no longer is an evening newspaper. And we made them the whole staff here made a lot of decisions that were very important decisions. We think in America for newspapers. We said we think there is a (00:07:18) purpose for evening papers (00:07:21) and it is a very very important purpose. So we've made that penetration we've said Okay, let the morning newspaper do its thing. It has to orient up news. It reorients people to the world after they wake up when they've got that time. We're conscious of Television. We know that say the latest statistic. I've seen 82% of the people in this country either occasionally regularly get their news their National international news from a tube television and in the morning that figure something like twenty (00:07:54) four percent. We're very aware (00:07:57) that people are getting their first hit of news from somewhere else. I didn't even mention radio. Okay, just always so we're saying alright. Well let the morning newspaper serve that function reorienting people to today and re-entering the world after their night's sleep. We're gonna do something different we're going to say and we are going to be different and we're going to create a new newspaper that instead of reacting to the wire services and and just being a tyrannized by the flow of events significant and insignificant. We're going to try to reflect the world. We live in and really help people understand we are going to go beyond the traditional superficiality of Journalism. We're going to say to people By golly if you really want to learn what it's all about to what best of our possibility to the best of our capability we're going to tell you in the Minneapolis Star. Sometimes that's going to be costly we may leave out some what we considered insignificant news items or give them short shrift in order to really tell the full story and that's in a breakthrough in journalism. A lot of evening newspapers have gone to a lot of fancy things Jazzy makeup and all sorts of things to do what they're doing and we we think having live and our graphic color and we have eight full-time illustrators evening. But the real change in the store has been a change to society where we are seeing to our readers. We respect your intelligence and we know you don't have enough information to make your life work. And so we're going to try to give you that information intelligently gathered in that it It is a new kind of newspaper It's A New Concept. It gets it the whole guts of the superficiality of our trade and when I say our I mean yours and mine (00:09:43) it seems this shift in emphasis is logical reasoned response to the kinds of shift and patterns of society that we see but still you pointed out I think quite correctly that a big part of the problem for readers in the evening hours is not having the time. So now we have something perhaps the Gets behind the news that informs a reader, but can you surmount this time problem? (00:10:22) I think we can if we're good enough. If people realize that there are things in the star that they really want to read. We've changed a lot of our focuses (00:10:32) of news Foci focuses. We said for instance (00:10:42) We're going to cover television so well, yeah, obviously I readers want to read about television. We're going to cover it. So well that if they're really going to watch television they have to read us first we do more television in add a star than TV week TV. Guide doesn't a week. I guess we probably do more. I'm sure we do more television covers any paper now States, we don't we got a lot of resources invested in because I think it's important not only an art form. It's a changing our society still in radical form. So we really cover the hell out of it. Not just telling people what's on tonight and what's good. It's on tonight, but how television is changing their life and our society. Well, that's depth that's really important. And that's not a long pejorative. If you will article on assault tool. (00:11:24) That's the important kind of (00:11:26) news and I'm saying that's news and I'm redefining news from Minnesota. I'm trying and I think if you go home tonight at 7 o'clock and you're going to watch the tube for a little bit it makes sense for you to check out the star first it if you really interested in the tube I am when I watched on television, you're going to take a look at the start. You got to read the star that we're indispensable in your life in a different way than an evening newspaper used to be Not the quickfix not too quick in and out but really understanding something and getting to know something. Similarly. Jeremy yigit is this guy's been writing on restaurants in the snow. It's a wonderful view of restaurants Batman, see how something go out to eat in Minneapolis anymore and some of the better restaurants without having read Eggers first. That's the kind of fuel soft stuff that the Stars doing really well in addition when it comes to community issues if you're interested in community issues. Ultimately, you really can't do anything in this town unless you read this newspaper and a good example is the whole issue of the Minnesota daily in there. They're vulgar humor issue. We've written a lot on that subject. You can't be informed in this town about that subject unless you've had the star and it'll be even more true as we keep (00:12:38) going. (00:12:39) We have several things planned for later on we do depth coverage which says, you know, one of the shibboleth of the newspaper industry is that you should never overestimate the amount of information your readers have but never underestimate their intelligence and we're saying we appreciate and understand that and we think you know, you couldn't pull off this kind of a newspaper in a town that was not as intelligent and as articulated as well read as this one. (00:13:06) Along that line it occurs to me that frankly. I've heard a number of criticisms of the star from that intelligent. If you will element of the community, I have my biased little Universe. I hear it from other journalists people in our shop on your side here on the other side here around town what happened to the news. I suppose that's in this view a necessary sacrifice of reordering of the priorities you (00:13:37) spoke a I don't think that's a sacrifice. I really feel pretty strongly about that. What's news was Three Mile Island news. If Three Mile Island was news how about the other 267 or 2167 nuclear problems that have been in power plants? Let me tell you what the typical definition newspaper definition of news is in my view. And that is where a reporter happens to be. or happens to have manipulated to Ben In our town in Minneapolis, and st. Paul there are people paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year more than $100,000 you to manipulate people like you and me to come to cover their events. PR people public relations people they know what news is that given the traditional definition which is, you know, get somebody to cover this this this event so-called event. You know that civil rights the whole black movement in the South was going just too strong in the 1940s and the 1950s as it was in the 1960s, but nobody happened to cover it until the 1960s and it's an outrage to say that that was news what Martin Luther King did after 1962 say 03 then what about the people in 1950s? What about the eyes of Philip Randolph (00:14:59) we (00:15:01) kid ourselves when we think and it's just sort of the media and development of our country that news is where a reporter is what a newspaper ought to do it seems to me and that's it doesn't hold true for a radio station, especially when an evening newspaper us to do is take a look at its community and its region and it's world and so what is it like are we reflecting our society? Not just knee-jerk sending a reporter to the Capitol every time the governor burps. And that's what it really amounts to the governor calls a press conference and every television camera in town and every microphone in town runs over to cover the governor and he burps they'll cover it. Don't really hold up with that on the air. Well, you won't find it in Minneapolis Star except to say why the hell did the governor do something like that. I think it's important for us the citizenry the people who win intelligent people in the media to say, what are these people doing? Yanking us around to these often unimportant events. Let's really get to the issues working women. We had a series in the star we could go on on the what's important about the fact that 63 percent of Minnesota's women work that's important that you can say that's not news, but I say to you that is news (00:16:11) to what extent Have you found yourself satisfied that you've been able to actually accomplish this change in the star and to what extent do you see a reader response or is it too early to say? (00:16:30) Good question. (00:16:32) We are getting toward we like the direction. We are aiming at am I satisfied with it? No, and I probably even if we ever got to Nevada, I wouldn't be satisfied with it. We're doing well and getting their to take a newspaper and go into really Uncharted territories as a newspaper to get as you will be on the superficialities of Journalism in journalism. It's pretty hard and we are all thinking and rethinking everything we're doing almost every day. It's difficult. It's exciting but it's difficult some days. We really do and achieve it pretty well. I mean, I like the whole concept of our miss a our Marketplace section to say that we're going to have a section for people who work and who (00:17:11) manage other people get into the sort of thing (00:17:15) to really take a new look at the way puny papers cover Sports. I'm really happy that we're doing these kinds of innovative things. Do we succeed all the (00:17:24) time? Obviously, not today will be terrific on television and tomorrow will stink (00:17:32) and we're working we're trying and we're putting a lot into this paper. We're about to start a new advertising campaign, which says something to the effect we put more in so you can get more out and we really are putting a lot of energy and effort into making this, you know, perhaps the one evening newspaper that takes off. In doing that we realize we were going to shake the tree little bit that we were going to jostle our circulation heavily the people in this traditional town. Not conservative, but traditional 10 would be upset by the changes that we had to make we made them. In fact, very just very slowly took a year. And we knew we were going to Rattle the cage and we did I might say that it was a firestorm in my own view of it. Go ahead. You can ask a (00:18:18) question. Well, I take it you expected to see some of the traditional readers Dropout and a shift in in the readership and demography of it night. So to speak (00:18:32) you could say that I suppose we (00:18:33) were I don't want the traditional readers to go away from us. I think we're putting together the most exciting newspaper in the country and there are people who agree with me. We didn't Lop off things, you know, we kept the best of the old, you know, Jim shellfish are still writes in his prominently featured. In fact more prominently featured on his butt and Barbara Flanagan and on Morris and the people who have made this paper, very good over the years are still here. Okay, what we've done is we've added some things basically there are additions. Well, I think it's a better newspaper, but we understood going in that there were people who were going to be upset by chains changes Bradley. It's scary. It's taking you someplace for you. Haven't been even a bad newspaper yesterday right is more comfortable than a good newspaper tomorrow because it's the unknown but we understand the importance of having to make this bridge because just to go the old way is the way that some of the newspapers around the country have done and that's not a happy way (00:19:34) at the same time. You have a business to deal with and I'd like to get at this question of the bottom line in terms of the books and what it takes in terms of revenues to keep something as vital to a community as a daily newspaper going (00:19:50) at the bottom line is pretty good. The star is a very profitable Enterprise and will continue to be the thing. That's that's encouraging to me and to us about this (00:19:59) newspaper. There it is. (00:20:05) My first priority is to make it a quality product on the editor that's important to me to have a newspaper that I can be proud of and to say that this is the kind of newspaper that we should have at this time. That's number one. I think the quality pays I've always believed that and to believe anything else I couldn't do it. If I were just pandering with this product to the ultimate dollar we couldn't I mean we couldn't in good faith. Do the kinds of things we've been doing because they've gone counter to a lot of shibboleths in our industry, you know, keep it short, you know, the myth in the business was that you had to tell a story short enough for the second coming right to tell the second coming and three paragraphs. I don't believe that I mean, I really counted believe contractor there that you should tell people as much as you possibly can and not dying out on what you don't put in the (00:20:54) paper. (00:20:56) Well our survey show that in the marketplace that the people we're really aiming at like what we're doing (00:21:04) I think it was Chic (00:21:06) to be startled by what the star was doing for a couple of months and it is going to be Chic to like the star a lot in the next couple of (00:21:14) months. (00:21:16) I hate to have that be the reason we succeed but it will be part of the reason because the star is getting to be a very good newspaper. Examples just not just taking our (00:21:28) surveys. (00:21:31) We have had a managing editor vacancy here for someone's and I've been interviewing a lot of people. From other cities who are managing it is whether paper some of whom are begging to come here. They've never seen a newspaper like they love it. They know we are on The Cutting Edge and they want to be (00:21:47) part of it. (00:21:51) I've got to put you on the spot at this point and ask you straight out if your circulations increasing or declining It's gotta be (00:21:59) declining. It has been declining for it to between 10 to 20 years. And I think you can say that's going to go back up. You can Bank on it just did with Jimmy used to Carter Carter used to say you can bet on it. You can bet on it this going to go back up you watch you know, we shook the tree and we knew we were going to shake the tree. (00:22:19) What would the Twin Cities Minnesota for that matter be like without the star. (00:22:26) First of all won't be without the star. But (00:22:28) secondly, (00:22:31) if for some reason that there were only one newspaper in Minneapolis be sad for the citizens, I think more and more the star of the Tribune disagree with each other. It's like last fall the star and doors Rudy perpich for governor was against Qui and the Tribune made the other decision. We endorse Rudy boschwitz and David durenberger for Senator and the Tribune made the exact opposite endorsements. It's pretty, you know, if endorsement serve any purpose if it if the editorial voice of having two different newspapers in two different reporters cover the same event, you know, we have reporters who see things differently than the ones in the Tribune. We have things on our opinion page, you know, Dan Cohen taking the hell out of out of the Tribune. I mean, it's important to have two choices. That's a it maybe even costly to have two voices, but it's an important Civic goal. It seems to me one that John Cowles Junior has decided is important and one that the system's because it'll be poor without those two voices. It seems to me whether they're willing to pay the price for that as a is another matter.