And I was back in the late sixties and I was involved in all those those movements and so forth and I uh, I don't know who created the DC last Colony. I think it might have been my mother created the bumper sticker that says well as the old hand symbol for the Poor People's campaign and I was all very great and moving but right now I don't know when full voting representation in Congress for the District of Columbia. Obtaining voting rights is to be achieved by amending the United States Constitution 38 states must ratify the DC Amendment within a 7 year limit already in this first year six states have said yes, but 10 having some way said no, however more than six years were main to win more States and to change the positions of others in the next hour will hero.Proponents and opponents argue the issues the DC Amendment would leave control of the district with Congress, but it would expand our representation from a delegate to the House of Representatives who can vote only in committee do as many as two congressmen and two senators problem is our delicate Walter fauntroy is an honorary congressperson, which means he can watch the proceedings, but he himself cannot and I we need to have full voting rights for the District of Columbia because the people in the district work and live the same as people and the other 50 states.After the Revolutionary War the new Congress needed a place to do business and President George Washington wanted to establish a federal City, they chose a swampy area between Maryland and Virginia for the District of Columbia. Here's a brief City history prepared by Karen shugrue in 9 different cities decided it needed a permanent home. The decision was made when the Philadelphia militia refuse to protect Congress as it was literally attacked by Revolutionary War soldiers up in arms about not being paid Congress wanted more insulation from such political pressure and in 1790, the District of Columbia was carved out of the states of Maryland and Virginia to be ruled exclusively by Congress DC residents paid federal taxes and fought in the country's Wars without having the right to vote. That's pretty much the way it was until the early sixties in 1961 the 23rd Amendment to the Constitution gave the district's then 3/4 of aAlien people the right to vote for president and vice president in 1970 Congress gave the city of single non-voting delegates in the House of Representatives and the 1975 the district got a limited form of home rule for the first time residents could vote for their own mayor and city council. But to this day the residents of Washington DC have no voting representatives in the senate or the house Congress still flexes its muscles here to it. Routinely makes Cuts in the district's budget and Vito's local legislation resolutions for DC Congressional voting rights have been introduced in Congress for 150 years, but none got anywhere until 1976. That's when the present DC voting rights amendment was allowed out of committee for a vote on the house floor it failed last year. It was revived and passed the house Judiciary Committee on the last day of January DC's Congressional delegate Walter fauntroy saw growing support for the amendment.Gratitude that this moment first of all to be many members of the committee who were the gangsters last time but who have sent studied it and decided that they would do what was but my conscience dictated and we had a tremendous boat year old was 27 to 6, then on March 2nd 1978 nearly two years after the first unsuccessful try the DC amendment was approved by the Full House. The vote was 289-2127. Then it was on to the Senate and it was a fight until the vote parliamentary tactics had to be maneuvered out of the way a deal was struck to end a filibuster is organizer would be allowed to offer amendments. Some would make the DC Bill less attractive or politically sensitive for some Senators everyone knew the vote would depend on one or two members, but the DC amendment was facing its most crucial test to date an up-or-down vote in the United States Senate Senate Majority Leader, Robert Byrd urged his colleagues to let the people of the UnitedDid States decide the ultimate fate of congressional voting rights for DC? The Senate did 67232 Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts floor manager of the resolution said a combination of momentum from the house vote in March and Leadership from both political parties made the victory possible. Some members admitted their votes were politically motivated. It was an election year. So I'm senators from the Deep South voted for the amendment as a who's who of the American Civil Rights Movement looked on black leaders like Martin Luther King senior Coretta Scott King the head of the n-double-acp Benjamin hooks mayor Richard Hatcher of Gary Indiana others support came from some of the same Senators who opposed civil rights legislation in the 1950s and 60s legislation that added black voters to those Senators constituencies Republican. Senator Charles Mathias of Maryland a supporter of DC voting rights. It says this accounted for the close vote in the Senate very clearly. This is a byproduct of the Civil Rights.Act of 1965 by the Voting Rights Act and it's clear that to buy in franchising vast numbers of black voters are particularly in the Deep South that we have created a new political influence in this country. And I think it's healthy Senator Mathias many see the DC Amendment as a black issue because most of the people who live in the district are black these proponents view the amendment as an addendum to the Civil Rights Acts of the last two decades, they've made it an extension of President Carter stand on human rights, but others say ratification of the DC amendment is strictly a constitutional issue some our opponents like Republican senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina or misleading the black citizens of the District of Columbia and the black citizens across the country. They are holding out the hope that they are goingTo give the District of Columbia a city not a state a city to Senators when they know full. Well that is not going to happen because the 38 states are not going to ratify this I'm having Senator Helms goes along with Helms and arguing the amendment on constitutional grounds, but highness thinks the human rights issue is why the states will ratify the main reason that this amendment passed certainly in the Senate is true it is because it was portrayed as a human rights civil rights issue the proponents were not about to listen to any arguments to the contrary because the political significance of this amendment was much more important than the Constitutional or legal arguments. And this is one of the reasons why I think it probably has a very good chance of being proved in a sufficient number of states within the 7 years highness has the councilFor the Republican policy committee to the US Senate. He was asked by the Senate Republican leader Howard Baker to prepare a report on the pros and cons of the DC Amendment the opponents are concerned that their other provisions of the Constitution which fly in the face of what this proposed amendment would do to the Constitution. Certainly you can amend the Constitution to say almost anything you want to Article 1 for example does specifically talk in terms of statehood for representation in the Senate and by simply saying that you're going to treat the District of Columbia as though it were a state. I'm referring to the text of house joint resolution 554. It says that for purposes of representation in the Congress.Election of the President and Vice President and ratification of Constitutional Amendments. The District of Columbia would be treated as though it were a state that's in section. One other words. The people that District would be able to vote for the first time for two US senators plus the number of representatives in the house to which they would be entitled if the district were estate and that would be either one or two depending on whether you go by the 70 senses or the 75 estimate the DC Amendment also would allow the district to ratify future Constitutional Amendments and opponent Republican Congressman Robert Baughman of Maryland wonders of DC has the mechanisms for that. We're not quite sure what that means does the city council under the circumstances have the right to ratify an amendment to the Constitution and if that is so how exactly would it be done and would it be done under the pressure of a Congress that might want an Amendment ratified as in the case of era?There's a lot of controversy. It's a close boat and the Congress might influence their creature. Although being treated as a state to ratify that how would you fill a vacancy in the Senate would have Maher Zain United States Senator. All of this is left on answered in the amendment in testimony before the Maryland legislature Belmond called the DC Amendment vague and poorly written and said it contained constitutional conflicts that would land it in the US Supreme Court the amendment would repeal another the 23rd. It allows DC to participate in the Electoral College. We have three electors for the elections of a president and vice president. That's based on the number allowed. The least populous state lot 7 states have smaller populations in DC and under the DC Amendment. The district would be allowed more like tours according to our population. Jim hainish again point was that it's treating the District of Columbia as though it were a state and a number of Senators who opposed thisWill said if you're going to treat it as if it's a state why not confer with the benefits the burdens of statehood as well. Why shouldn't the District of Columbia either? Get all the rights and Powers as well as burdens of a state or else be treated as the founding fathers intended to be treated as the seat of national government DC. Mayor Marion Barry Congolese people for instance on the hill who opposed the Constitution Amendment now say why don't we go for Statehood. My question is why don't you introduce some bills into the Congress will support them. They do it. Then I done that those state legislatures state legislatures. You say we got to go straight to it and try to get you a congressperson of your Senator introduces bills for Statehood as well. That's not our responsibility. But two of those are species are they use shouldn't be a state and let's give you some other phone representation. That's what they would say the district. Mayor Barry Jim heinisch arguing for opponents says some who think DC. Should not be a state also think it should be represented in Congress. But he says the same opponents still find problems with this amendment. Whatever reason that they had disenfranchised people the district the answer to rectify this problem is not to this particular resolution because it's faulty because it has Provisions in it, which actually make the District of Columbia more than equal to the other states Jim hynas Council to the Senate Republican policy committee heinisch says the DC Amendment would give DC voters too much power for several reasons the Senate and the house have District committees representing the city's interest on Capitol Hill Senators as representatives of the 50 states have an automatic interest in their national capital and DC has a congressional delegate on the day the amendment passed the house Judiciary Committee last year that non-voting delicate Walter fauntroy refer to the DC amendments language that Just been over as technicalities. technicalities in attempt to I think in the main the members of the Congress understand what the issue is will we be treated as such as full-fledged American citizens are not convinced Congress but opponents like Congressman Robert Bauman of Maryland say many members did not do their constitutional Duty. I can tell you quite honestly that the debate in the House of Representatives who was say the least not terribly expensive or enlightening. I spent a lot of time in the Florida house and had to listen to all of it. If I had a dollar for every member of the house. I overheard saying or said directly to me. Well, I'll pass this is all vote for this dog and let it go to the legislators and they'll surely kill it. I'd be very wealthy that was the attitude of my colleagues and that's not a very complimentary thing to say of the Congress of the United States, but delegates do I pay him tribute wasn't effective lobbyists. There were a great many arguments advanced in favor of the resolution when it was before the house in the political terms and emotional terms that I've mentioned but the attitude of Any of them would simply I want to get this thing off my back and surely the legislators in their wisdom will not permitted to become part of the Constitution are state legislators. Don't particularly appreciate having another Constitutional Amendment dumped on them as an excuse. In other words, if if if the problem should have been handled by Congress than it should have been handled Kathleen Teague is executive director of the American legislative exchange Council Alec. It's a washington-based National Organization of conservative state legislatures. It opposes the DC voting rights amendment that has passed a resolution saying so it's also passed a resolution saying the state should take their time to baiting and deciding this issue. Alec has about seven hundred members Nationwide. One of them is Donna Carlson a republican member of the Arizona House of Representatives from Phoenix. State legislatures problem it's under the jurisdiction of Congress. And if they want to do something reasonable for the citizens of that area, then they should draft an amendment which the states can accept. I think putting an Amendment of the Constitution is wrong approach. I think that there are other means is that could have been explored if they are interested in the ventral because why not go that route first House minority leader in your state Arizona is quoted as saying that the reason the committee recommended the house not take up the Voting Rights Amendment is because of a lot of what he called anti Eastern establishment feeling do you think that's true? That statement the western states have a lot of different problems that are unique to the western states and the people from the eastern states don't realize that they're interested in different kinds of problems are interested more in in the social programs and some of the people from the western states and I certainly think it would be harmful representative Republican and member of the American legislative exchange Council a National Organization of State legislatures leading a drive against the ratification of the DC Voting Rights Amendment. Oh here in Arizona still have the old Wild West kind of idea of the old Frontier Spirits the Arizona House minority leader and co-sponsor of the amendment during the last legislative session Democrat Larry Bayhill of Tucson establishment, and they like to blame their problems. There are the problems of the Nation on everybody back there on the other side of the Mississippi River. And so certainly they they look in and around the DC area because of the problems created by the federal government for at least the way they see it and they say that's just a bunch of liberal Democrats back there and they have all of these flaky liberal ideas and DC amendment is just more of the same. They don't come into the twentieth century. Are they still sit back with archaic ideas of what the Constitution is and what it mean. They have no concept of a living Constitution. Certainly Washington DC is in a very unique position. I don't think the really that's DC needs statehood date. It has a unique position within history and and within our country and I think that allowing the the DC senators and representatives does the is the proper way of giving the people there are their representation many people out here will use almost any argument to defeat this amendment and and you know, they'll say what yeah, we ought to give him space because then they sound like a very open-minded about it everything but if you presented a statehood amendment to vote for it either, I think that we have to take care of 750,000 people who are disenfranchised from the boat Democratic state representative Larry Bay. Halo Tucson, Arizona last Fall by state legislatures began considering the DC Amendment supporters here at home. We're not ready to counter these arguments local lobbyists lag behind or got caught short Elena Hess was at that time executive director of the self-determination for DC Coalition. Its members belong to other local and National organizations and are organizing other members and states to act as lobbyists. First thing we wanted to do was to have material written expressly for the legislators awful lot of Not only miss information but lack of information most people to Country don't know that the district residents don't have either full home rule or or voting representation in Congress. So we wanted in other words. We wanted to do a great a major educational campaign before the ratification Drive got off. Well, obviously we can't control what goes on in the states in some States move to head anywhere there were half a dozen states that had continued to have sessions even that late in the year. And so we've got were in the position of having to try to organize support efforts for ratification in those States people there at initiated which we were grateful for but we really we had hoped to begin in January when most all but all of the states are going to have sessions issue except Kentucky. Now that would have been plenty of time for us to begin. We are put back in the in our campaign because we How to deal with the states that where it was coming up and the local politicians were not ready either they were lobbying in Congress and running for office themselves DC. Mayor Marion Barry we was so cool of pushing the Senate and the house so hard is what I images were and was touch-and-go every day. And once it passed quite frankly, I'm not I'm not sure you're prepared to do the immediate follow-up in the States because it happened rather rapidly. I thinking in the fall California and others were moving out friends around the country ranks to help out in some instances. They be materially I think he introduced Legislation sometimes wasn't the best person politically to do it and I was really slow things down. So I'm going down slow them down where at least legislators before they were acting on behalf of check in to see if this is a good strategy, but we were not quite ready. I don't think Blessthefall. First of all, I was running for office. I didn't pull out energy on the state legislatures clouds busy fighting phone political life elections last fall brought charges of playing politics with a DC Amendment the Democratic primary for mayor which really decides who will be mayor in this predominantly Democratic city was just weeks away two days after the Senate report it out the Amendments DC delegate Walter fauntroy and mayoral candidate and then city council chairman Sterling Tucker. Where in California where the DC amendments had been quickly introduced in the state legislature Tucker said California was going to be first in the hearts of his countrymen fauntroy told reporters. The district has for 200 years. Pandora the tyranny of taxation without representation California Republicans complained that the amendment was being rushed through some said it was because Governor Jerry Brown was running for president and wanted in their words to Checkmate Jimmy Carter support in the black community. The amendment wasn't rushed through the house approved it but the legislature adjourned before the Senate could take it up the amendment got off to a bad start with legislatures. In other states that were among the first to consider it last year. They to complain that proponents were in a rush to ratify Kathleen Teague of the American legislative exchange Council are legislators in those states were very concerned that the proponents of the amendment led by delegate Walter fauntroy. We're interested in pushing the amendment for ratification vote without allowing any public hearings or public discussion in California with proponents tried to change the rules of the senate in the general assembly so that the Amana could be considered without any public hearings. The Pennsylvania legislature voted to send the DC rap Amendment back to committee to after it has been voted out of committee and to hold hearings because the legislator said we don't even know how are constituents who have elected us feel about the issue and have another situation in the state of Michigan. Where are the proponents of the amendment on the Republican side of the legislature wrote a memo to all of their memo members saying that the amendment should be rushed by before the public and the media have an opportunity to learn really what it's all about and I might say that the governor had called a special session of the legislature to deal with the prison problem in the state of Delaware. And even the morning of the special session are members in the state of Delaware didn't even know that the amount would be coming up. They had very little information and I think that was one of the reasons why the Delaware house voted against the amendment simply because they didn't have any information Kathleen Teague of The Americans. Exchange Council what her member is regarded as manipulation other say was at worst disorganization or poor strategy fauntroy and Tucker they say we're only trying to build enthusiasm and momentum for the amendment. But while ready to forgive early blunders critic safe on Troy and friends should stay out of the lobbying effort after all they have a vested interest in Congressional voting rights for DC since day and especially Fun For All I could become the first members of Congress from the district to vote Democratic state. Senator Hubert Humphrey. The third of Minnesota doesn't agree again just to compare it I guess to something that I would be interested in for my own District if I didn't do the homework and if I didn't make sure that everybody else knew about it, it would never get past. I think he's doing his legislative job and there may be some conflicts edit or self-interest but you know the fact is that's the way it's going to get done. Let's let the people of the District of Columbia judge whether or not there was self-interest and what it was detrimental to the general interest is Minnesota State senator. Skip Humphrey the locals say they're organized now and ready for new legislative sessions chairman Arrington Dixon of the DC city council, you know, we went through a process to die with the campaigning for mayor and charming and others doing last year of that process of transition has basic is beginning to settle and out of that settling is coming some new direction for the city of direction that will include the I think the apparent leaders political leaders of the city. We're going to try to use their involvement to bring money and resources into Quick quickly to address some of these problems and that means the money will be used to staff up people can monitor the process staff of people who can be sent out to lobby for us to stand up so we can fund that help pay for some of the expenses for lobbyists all over the country and also and more importantly are as importantly help provide money in and some direction to existing organization. That I doing a good job now but have been difficult for them with so many different groups trying to take care of business. They been difficult to get in dollars to take care of that and we need to be focused. We doing that that's going to become a very much visible reality. But Dixon's appealing plan was not appealing to members of the self-determination for DC Coalition. They've been on the job since 1971 while fauntroy Dixon and mayor Barry form the Voting Rights Service Corporation earlier this year with a goal of raising a million dollars a year for the next five years. The two groups had a public falling-out over their respective roles in the effort to promote ratification while the two groups argued questions about money fundraising and who would represent the amendment and state legislatures 10 states have rejected the measure while just 6 have passed it. It's not a bread-and-butter issue and but there enough people for high-minded enough to think about somebody else's rights and Anna a proposed amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America relating to the District of Columbia for the League of Women Voters in behalf of representation for the District of Columbia. And I was delighted when Congress finally passed the amendment last fall. It seems in some ways. It's kind of cool that putting a kid in a candy store you can watch government but you you can't participate in a state representative and Winnie St. Paul Minnesota a Democrat and chief author of a bill for DC Congressional voting rights that passed the Minnesota House of Representatives in March the state senate later back to the house making Minnesota V state to ratify the DC Amendment and its first year before the legislators. In the next section of this program will hear debate on the floor of the Minnesota House of Representatives recorded by Minnesota Public Radio and will hear the legislatures discuss the issues and interviews. I recorded when I went to Minnesota in February to watch a state legislature deal with the DC amendment. I began my talking with representative wynia in her office at the state capitol in St. Paul. I asked her what she as sponsor was up against No one seems to take too much issue with the idea of representation in the house summer bothered that an entity with a basically a fairly small population receives two United States senators. And then the other suggestion that I frequently he was well, I'm not against representation, but let's get it back to Maryland and do it that way. So it's not so much with the basic notion of representation, but it has to do with how you go about it. It's interesting. You know, I've seen some arguments it we don't want to send anyone to Congress is likely to support gun control. We don't want to send someone who's likely to be liberal. We don't know if we want to make sure that there's two black senators and to meet dad is just an indefensible reason for for not giving representation to some group when we're talkin about basic issues of democracy. We're talking about a people's right to participate with Carlos of their political party or there any logical persuasion. That's simply not an issue issues. Proposed in this particular constitutional amendments are not new ones. Bear basic fundamental issues of democratic government at the heart of this amendment is the right to vote to the Keystone of democratic government. Do we have heard much discussion during this past year of some proposed changes and democratic government within our own state. It has been suggested that we might consider in our state implementing certain forms of direct democracy such as initiative and referendum that a greater voice for the people is needed perhaps you participated in some of those discussions yourself. I submit to you that it is a truly ironic situation that we should talk about extending more forms of democratic participation do some citizens when we deny the basic right of representation to the 700,000 The History of the United States has been a history of the progressive applique. I've Democratic principles of the right to vote to larger and larger numbers of people of the 26 amendments that have been added to our constitution 6 deal with the right to vote. I submit to you today that it is time to extend the same rights of representative government that we invented soda and joy to those people who live in the District of Columbia, I asked your support for the ratification of this amendment and and for a positive vote on house file 3. Thank you girls State Representative Bob surles of Minnesota a republican opposition, and I'm going to ask your permission to speak from down in the well there because I have a couple of maps that I want to use in my presentation. I'm an unlikely opponent to this because I am in agreement with representative wynia. Representative Pleasant, I think their goal of equal representation for the citizens of the District of Columbia is absolutely right. I think the question in front of us is just that equal representation and I want to make a case here which I believe is missed quite often by the proponents about the perspectives that govern this decision. And one way you can get perspectives. I believe members of the body is to take a look at this actual situation and I haven't found any proponents will show you a map of this in this map. You'll notice a very small red. The very small red. Is the exact outline and I followed it carefully of the District of Columbia. This is the area and I want you to think of perspectives. Now, this is the area that is now going to be represented by two senators if you vote affirmatively The question here is equality of representation. And it especially relates to the two senators involved. Now the disproportionate representation in the Senate many people have made a case it Urban representation and it is more of a reality and a necessity today in the Senate than it might have been 200 years ago and a good case could be made for this when the country was for maybe 5% of the people lived in cities today at a reverse think that maybe 90% might be living in urban areas. But if we're to solve that problem, we should be starting with cities like New York, Los Angeles Chicago and not just one little city like Joe Washington frankly is this amendment is passed the urban residents of the rest of the United States would become second-class Urban residents. The only first-class ones would be those living in the District of Columbia. This amendment itself poses a situation where you were to pretend that the District of Columbia is a state and the terms used in there as if it were a state. I think the same thing could be done and give unfortunate representation in the Senate is if you were to say is if it were a part of the state of Maryland and this would accomplish Equity fairness were the other Urban citizens of the United State and is written in the Constitution that you cannot modify. The boundaries of any state without the permission of the legislature. So that's out Republican representative Ray Pleasant co-sponsor of the amendment in the Minnesota house. Send it back to Congress. He had luck Maryland accept those individuals. The represents trolls today says well listen to this don't really offer the boundary creates something even more hybrid. I want to use the word outlandish. He says we won't let them be a part of, Maryland. But will let 700,000 People Help, Maryland to select their senators. I dropped parallelism for you. How would it be if the seven-county metropolitan area help Wisconsin to elect their senators? You think Wisconsin would go along with that. Obviously not state representative Ray Pleasant of Minnesota others argue that constitutional tradition and geography should not stand in the way of DC representation. One of those is state senator. Skip Humphrey just as as a district of Columbia is a geographical area. It also has a very substantial number of people there more people living there than there are in several of the states, I believe and certainly they have as much right to be represented in both houses of Congress as anyone and I think that's what's more important again and see that's what I would like to emphasize now we can get back to this business. I think what you're leading to is a states rights issues. That's really what is the bulk work of the opposition. We just stand behind we try to fall back on this argument that look it's a states rights issue. It's a matter of the states having some priorities and within the constitutional Context I think we once again it have to let you know. I thought we had maybe gotten beyond the old states rights fight and it wasn't too long ago when someone said it was time that we got out of the Shadow with states rights and walk in the bright Sunshine of Human Rights Minnesota State senator. Skip Humphrey co-sponsor of a DC Amendment resolution in the Minnesota Senate. He was quoting his late father former US senator from Minnesota and former vice president Hubert Humphrey when he was mayor of Minneapolis in 1948 still debate in the Minnesota Senate included the suggestion that only the DC delegate be given a vote on the floor of the US House of Representatives won state senator pointed out that the house traditionally has represented the people while the Senate represented States most recently. We heard it in Louisiana where the Senate approve the amendment despite this presentation from Democratic. Senator Jackson Davis of Shreveport. 10 square miles have two senators and one or two Representatives. And the people up there are fundamentally employees of the people of the United States, many of them are just temporarily they say they have seven 700,000 people 800,000 people. I don't know how many that I have but I do know that the boat in Louisiana in New York in California, and they consider themselves citizens of New York. Or Louisiana or California that shouldn't have the same representation that the people have in the fort in the 50 states of the Union. An addition of that let me say this that I am a Louisiana and I am thinking of Louisiana first and foremost. I know. and you know that if I vote is watered down. By having representation in the Senate represent representation in the house by these people most of whom are represented. New York and we're watering down our boys. a voice in the Federal Congress and therefore I strongly request that you vote this resolution down state. Senator Jackson Davis of Louisiana. I asked DC mayor Barry how he and others working for ratification are countering these arguments. We try to point out the people that first of all the original 13 states have been expanded up to 50. Ohm at 48 states Alaska Hawaii was brought in in the state of Maryland in the state of Virginia still has the same to send the same voice in the Senate as they had before then so your voices. Is there more over as you call. It would not popular elections for for senators. State Legislature elected Senators on behalf of the states. We now have popular election by the citizens is not easy. It's underlined problem with all of this. Then more than likely those same state legislatures in Wyoming and Montana who would say that publicly really are saying something else. They're saying we don't want to other Senators who were going to be a pro labor probably or Pro Urban cities are we afraid that we don't want to have one or two more black senators and that's what they really mean about not the fact that they are for us would be diluted the vote would be because that's not happening the senators from the states that would raise their can I still vote and still participate in Alaska and Hawaii hasn't diminished their votes. They still are go forward DC. Mayor Barry. There's another argument Louisiana state senator Davis mansion, that's not uncommon. It says allowing DC congressional representation would amount to government represent in government because people who live here work for the federal government that are given Came up and Rhode Island state Senator Richard Leach sponsored the DC amendment in the Rhode Island Senate. the government Second-place are more people in the district working for the government who live outside of the District of Columbia and no one said that they can't be represented. Even if that's all that the Senators Representatives would do for the district and I dispute that but even for argument's sake assuming that it was true. I don't have the right represented. We in the Northeast I'll be strangled because of a lot of oil and gas lobby but doing here suggests the Texas and Louisiana Senators representing an interested. but that's the star system of government state Senator Richard Leach of Rhode Island a Democrat a standard Battle Cry of the Amendments proponents is taxation without representation, but opponents in the states feel right at home with their response tax is very persuasive with a lot of state legislators when they look at the District of Columbia receiving about $1,010 per capita back from the federal government where has the next highest area is a state of Alaska which receives $700 per capita back from in federal funds for every $1 that DC residents pay in taxes federal income tax if they received $7.67 in per capita return, we received a mere $0.73 for every dollar so presently for 2.6 million people in the city of Milwaukee in the state of Wisconsin and up subsidizing the people in 680 thousand people in the city of Washington DC on dollar for every $29.29. They pay in taxes, which is true. But no one ever told you how much land is tax-exempt in Washington, DC 70% Atlanta tax exempt long to the federal buildings Embassy so they don't have any base. So I think that the crystal clear cases made that now is the time to rectify that last bit of our society who's not in the winter in American green the late Robert Lewis state senator from Minnesota a co-sponsor of the DC Amendment one of his dreams seeing the DC Amendment ratified by the state of Minnesota happened just a few weeks before he died of a heart attack earlier this year. It's not a matter of taxation without representation representative Ken McDonald debating the DC Amendment on the floor of the Minnesota house last February. I am willing if someone wishes to relocate to have meaningful representation. I am willing as a representative of my district to help that aggrieved person to relocate if it's financially impossible to do so. I honestly suggest that we consider a better alternative a more meaningful positive alternative than to say will treat them as though they were a state that is demeaning to the real meaning of representative democracy. The lady from Ramsey misses with you. Mister chairman representing McDonald you take great Delight. Stating that it is demeaning to consider the District of Columbia as though it were a state or represent McDonald and other members back in 1820 in the case of longboard vs. Blake the Supreme Court had before the issue of whether or not the residents of the District of Columbia should pay taxes. Now the Constitution 1920 stated that direct taxes are to be appointed among the several states which may be included in this Union. And so the question was if taxes are to be apportioned among the states do the residents of the district have to pay taxes. And chief justice Marshall in that opinion said well, of course because for purposes of Taxation the district may be treated as though it were state. So this is not something new that we're talking about here today. The District of Columbia and its residents has been treated as though it were a state for many many years for everything but the right to elect representatives for their government. Now it's been suggested that were they given this representation that it would be meaningless. I would submit to you that the ride of a people to elect their representatives is never meaningless. And the fact that the the Congress of the United States does retain Power Authority over the District of Columbia rather than making the representation of those people's meaningless makes it even more important than ever consider for a moment that the residents of the District of Columbia are governed a ruled by a body in which they are not even entitled to send elected representatives and I had a woman came up to me after I hearing in the Judiciary Committee middle-aged woman who said that she was born in the District of Columbia her father and mother were born in the District of Columbia and was until her father was 61 years old that he finally Doctor vote for president. I think there's a stereotype that the District of Columbia is a composed Symphony of a group of Highly mobile people who are there a couple of years and then they leave and that's not true that large numbers of people who live there on a basically permanent basis state representative, Minnesota. Water Street in Massachusetts today and asked about her State Senate voted on representation for District of Columbia. I doubt if one and 10,000 people know I don't think there's one person. I just took the kid one way or the other people here really been underwhelmed about it. There are so many important local issues at the Oregon legislature is facing that there has been little comment little press coverage. You might call the great Groundswell of indifference Jennings the legislative aide to Senate Majority Leader Bob Smith of Oregon and before him state Senator Alan sisitsky of Massachusetts, their remarks are typical of the attitude toward this amendment in some State there's little interest among the legislatures and virtually no interest among their constituents Massachusetts is one of the five states to ratify the DC representation Amendment watch the Siskey said he had to appeal to his legislative colleagues on a personal basis. I'd like you to do this for me. He would say in Georgia, Nevada and North Carolina the amendment does not come up for debate in Missouri the house phone. Withdrew his DC voting rights resolution for lack of Interest. The supporters were not organized enough to lobby and he was afraid of defeat the lack of public sentiment leave the issue entirely to the legislator. So it often breaks down to a liberal vs conservative a Republican versus Democrat issue in Oregon, the legislature wanted to have a public referendum on DC voting rights proponents of that move said the legislature makes the final decision. Anyway, and The public's opinion would be helpful after all they argued amending the United States Constitution is serious business, but opponents of a referendum said the legislature must provide leadership as well as representation. They want there won't be a referendum but still there's no action citizens know that the process for approval of DC Congressional voting rights is the same as for the proposed Equal Rights Amendment but legislators like Minnesota State senator. Skip Humphrey say that in the case of the DC Amendment. He doesn't expect to hear from many constituents. Everybody's got some opinion about the era. I think if you ask an awful lot of people in my constituency and then they District that I represent what they thought about the District of Columbia bill, they would not immediately be able to give you an opinion one way or the other brands if you ask him. Do you think people in The District Columbia ought to have a right to elect their representatives? I think you probably get a yes. If you ask them. Do you think the District of Columbia which is not a state should have rights to Senators, you might get a negative but they wouldn't have they wouldn't have an immediate in-depth reaction and emotional reaction to it. That's why I say I think our strength is going back to say to just asking the rhetorical question. Why are we here and what gives us the right to represent anybody if if we're going to deny that right to others in this day and age and that's a very different emotional feeling for a an elected representative. Columbia does not have a constituency in New Hampshire. That's not the kind of issue. When you go home at night. You're going to get calls from Mad constituents over it. And I think it. That is a problem. But I think that is one in time that we can overcome Leo Lessard a democratic member of the New Hampshire House of Representatives where the DC amendment was defeated mayor. Barry says he's working for voter support as well as legislative support in New Hampshire and other states but is there much interest right here in the district? Neighborhood groups neighborhood organizations the people in the district feel very strongly about this. I'm not a hand the day-to-day problems are uppermost in their mind. Someone someone louder job doesn't have much time to talk about voting rights unless he or she can see how I'm going right? It's going to get them a job or someone without an adequate housing. It's not going to talk about voting rights, but I don't think you have to miss interpret the quietness for lack of support and I haven't found hardly anybody in the district, except the few people who are rather conservative by this who are mostly Republicans in a few Democrats who opposed to this son of the rug or anything like that when we should have somewhere to rest your complaints, you know, you like other current tag the gas situation they come and the ticketing cars in the district is really cracking down. I think it's unfair. It's long overdue. We would have had it years ago. If the makeup of the city had been say 10% black instead of the 90% or 70% of whatever it is now and I think as you see blacks moving out of the city and whites moving in you also see the trend moving towards both Representation I believe because the city is changing so quickly that we will have it very soon. And I think it's it just demonstrates that it was Maura racial matter then anything else for a long time. I felt that he should have voting rights and should have representation in Congress primarily for economic reasons, but that we needed this representation a long time before now in a process where the city is changing and even if we do get for the representation, you're still have the same amount of poor people in the area of the city, but they'll be on the outskirts. They won't be affected by the kinds of moves that will tax legislative actions that will come from DC having voting representation today to New Jersey, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Massachusetts and Connecticut have approved the DC voting rights amendment either the house or Senate has approved the amendment in Wisconsin, California, Rhode Island, Oregon, New York and Louisiana. But the other house has not acted supporters in the state of Washington could not get enough votes to bring the issue Up For Debate in the house Delaware. His house is twice turn down the amendment with member saying they weren't ready for it in Maryland and Pennsylvania. The amendment did not win the majority demanded by state constitutions. At least one house has voted against the amendment in North Dakota South Carolina, New Hampshire and Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming and Idaho have rejected the DC Amendment. But in a different way, the issue was introduced negatively that is a resolution to defeat the amendment was introduced into prove before supporters could introduce a resolution to approve there are constitutional questions about whether those three defeats are legal similar questions are being asked about states that have rescinded their ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment though. There are more nose than yes is more than six years were Maine to go back and attempt to change the nose and says Mary Berry 30 States then crunches going to come it's going to be off too tough to get 38 States, but I think we'll make 30 /. For 5 years and those eight very very tough to get but Barry says congressional representation is not all he's after some people think they should get two sentences into, which people that things are going to be. Alright, let's we get the Congress out of our budgetary business said if they approve every dollar that we spend the District of Columbia. We still going to be in slave. So I'm working hard to try to get them out of our budget and business in fact and working just as hard on that is I am in the Voting Rights Amendment what happens if if it doesn't make it in seven years. What are you dry again? I guess in First Step will be to try to get the extension for some more time. Then maybe they'll be some other strategies. I don't know. I don't want to protect I am just cautiously optimistic though. That we can get that done and we will get it done. This is Craig Oliver Michael Cullen and Judy craymer. The technical producer was Tom Cole reporters Alice Kate Earl and Nina Ellis and Karen shugrue contributed to this program other material came from National Public Radio, Wisconsin Public Radio and Minnesota Public Radio special thanks to station ksjn for use of its facilities and for the invaluable assistance of legislative reporters, John Marley and Bob Potter this report on Congressional voting rights for the district was written and produced by Craig Oliver edited by Jodi golden and funded in part by The Corporation for Public Broadcasting. This program is a production of the news Department of wamu-fm, Washington.