Mark Seetin on the state of agriculture in Minnesota

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Mark Seetin, Minnesota Agriculture Commissioner, discusses the state of agriculture in Minnesota. Topics include economic health, end of drought, gasohol, beef prices, and American Agriculture Movement. Seetin also answers listener and reporter questions.

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Today we have with us Minnesota agriculture commissioner Mark Seaton who before he became the Commissioner of Agriculture was the legislative coordinator for the Minnesota soybean growers association. It's part of that job. He testified before state and federal groups on Minnesota soybean production. Also at the same time Mark was chairman of the Faribault County Soil and Water Conservation for Mark is a farmer who rents 330 Acres near Huntley and Southern Minnesota where he raises grain and livestock Mark has a master of science degree in plant breeding from the University of Minnesota. And he took his Bachelor of Science degree in Agronomy also from the San Marcos 27 years old and is married to Elizabeth Seton we welcome you to midday and I guess Mark the first thing I want to ask you is not too long ago. We heard from the American agriculture movement members that these were rough times for American farmers, Minnesota Farmers included now, we hear that beef prices for example are better than they have been in the past few years. We've priceThese are considerably stronger than they have been and as you view the activities in Minnesota Farmers, how would you regard the economic health of agriculture in the state right now? Well, first of all, it is a pleasure to be here down concerning the health of agriculture in Minnesota at this point in time. We're better off and we have been 4 for the last several years. We're pulling out of the drought prices do seem to be more favorable for most of the Agricultural Commodities compared to what they were during the even during the drought.I guess it's a earlier this year when we saw the American egg movement people back in Washington DC we saw. People from One commodity area above all others and that was a week running areas and they definitely had a lot of problems. They had very very low prices and they had very high production cost for a cause that have skyrocketed at the same time their prices were a we're actually falling we have seen a settle back in the prices at farmers are paid for pork and beef and indeed farmers who are in the park production area right now are probably the the worst off economically after they've gone through a couple of favorable year is right now things are not really too favorable for them price-wise. We've seen the wholesale price of beef back off considerably. And that there was an interesting story about that last week. I attended a meeting of Midwestern State Department of Agriculture, and we were dressed by Orion Samuelson who is a farm broadcaster from the Chicago area. And that we asked the question about whether the the prices that actually gone down in stores in Chicago proportionate to the drop-in wholesale prices at Farmer's receiving you said, you know, I got a lot of calls on that. So what I did was tell told the people well, you know the wholesale price of been going down and then perhaps in the stores, they hadn't been going down so rapidly so maybe I should go up and ask the people to meet older how come their prices are not falling proportionately and I guess he got flooded with a lot of calls from Men Behind the beach who are tired of answering those questions. I'll bet they are and it is very confusing will get to some of those questions a bit later in the program. We're talking with Minnesota's agriculture commissioner Mark Seaton and Mark will be taking questions from listeners a bit later on in our conversation. But right now Mark, we have NPR reporter standing by around the state of Minnesota would like to put some questions to you. And first to join us today is Bob Myers NPR reporter from krsw in Southwestern, Minnesota. Go ahead Park. Good afternoon, my question relates to use of grain alcohol, which is a strong potential source of fuel for agriculture during the last text for the first farmers using gasohol was proposed as privacy on at the scabs still but with lots of committee and therefore the tax credit was not included in the talk to in southwest Minnesota find out the results from is somewhat questionable, especially when considering today's energy crisis and Endeavor to use alternative energy source for Road commissioner what is being done on the state level to promote Oregon courage and agricultural use the brain alcohol to my dismay. Also, the legislation was not successful. There were a number of bills one that I particularly liked was what and one that had wide support in rural areas would have checked off 1% Of the gasoline tax refunds at Farmers receive after their fuel tax has been deducted. They apply for a refund 1% of this would have been retained to form a new gasohol committee which would fund research and development projects for gasohol basically directed at on Farm production facilities. So that individual Farmers would be the ones to benefit from this type of Technology. That's one that I think would have been very very effective. It would not have cost the state in terms of tax dollars. It wouldn't have cost them any money. It would have been beneficial for the farmers because they would have seen another use developed for their products as well as enabling them to produce some of their own energy. I don't know why these proposals did not go through because of the the one in particular with the gas tax refund would not have cost the state anything. That's one of the breathe in the legislature sometimes All right, Fort Myers. Thank you for that question from Carousel you in Southwestern Minnesota. Go ahead Mark. You had something you wanted to add. I would like to add one thing again at this meeting in in Springfield, Illinois that I attended Jim Williams who is the deputy secretary of agriculture was also in attendance and we discussed the gasohol situation. It was very prominent at that point in time and present Carter's speech to the nation. I think that we will see within the USDA a change in posture from one of basically anti gasohol an anti-gas all feeling to one now where they are saying, well, there may be some ways that this is applicable. We have seen some new systems that have been proposed to us where the net energy balance is a positive one. I think one of the primary concerns of people is that within the gasohol picture they're saying we remove food when removing food from the food chain. Well basically most of the systems that will be applied. This is not true or in all of the systems example would not be away from needy. People are from food resources know all it would be doing would be extracting the alcohol in terms of the starch. We have no shortage of starch worldwide what we have worldwide shortage of his protein even on the on Farm systems. It would have to be associated with the livestock operation. What MASH which has enhanced protein because of the removal of the starch would be fed to livestock and still would be entering in the food chain. All right, if we have other questions waiting and one of the questions with us today is NPR John. It's Steve Casey cm in Morehead and John is on the line with this right now. Good afternoon John, but I'd like to follow up Barbie question about gas all with that question about the energy used on farms. I think most of us are aware that American agriculture is the most energy intensive agriculture in the world. We use more calories of energy to produce then the number of calories of food energy that will get out of a production. I wonder if we along with this consideration of gasohol if by your department is studying or considering any ways of lowering energy use The farm is that sounds viable way to look all Farmers have to take a look at their own particular situations and where they can do a downward adjustment in energy inputs that has to be applied. However, I will take issue with with the our contention about the energy balance. I do believe him again. I'll have to go into the research for these figures that the net energy balance is a positive one from food production. However agriculture in the United States is the most energy intensive in terms of total fluid petroleum consumed in the United States agriculture on farms that including the pesticide application and manufacturer uses 5% of the total fluid petroleum consumed in the United States. Now if you want to separate the pesticide part of that out, that's about 3% of the 5% or less than one-tenth of 1% of the total Stuart petroleum for pesticide manufacture. This is been the contention of some people I said, well we should stop using our fields for pesticide manufacture. But the point is that if we were to go without pesticides in many cases are fuel consumption would go at least 20 to 25% and our productivity would go down 30% and we would wind up using more fuel and facing the possibility of a food shortage within the United States. Is your department actively doing any of this site conservation any conservation studies? In terms of studies know we're not initiating any studies, but we are assembling information from the people that are doing studies is being done in our planning division right now. We're taking a look at all the available information and there is a multitude of information available for markets for Minnesota product. My question is did emissions really accomplish anything or are they simply junkets for bureaucrats and politicians then taken at the public expense for instance have there been any specific cells made as a result of your trip to the Orient earlier this year during the record for the for an individual sales that I believe it was about 3.6 million dollars worth of sales that were done right during the show basically the problem with evaluating. Show of that nature is it many contracts are signed later on, you know for 5 or 6 months afterwards. We have initiated a survey to all of the participants in our trade missions to find out what their feelings were because basically they're the ones that are putting in most of the dollars. They're paying their own way there they pay for the boosts the FAS the phone agricultural service of USDA does subsidized of the booth space allows him to get it more cheaply, but we wanted to find out where they felt the dollars would be best mint and basically the people that utilize those trade missions felt very positively about them. They requested that the same number of shows that we participate in. Be continued and perhaps it they felt it the advantages for additional trade missions would be once with just Minnesota companies not necessarily participating with other countries. In other states in the United States in terms of expansion. The companies could do with just as well by themselves, or is it are you involved in organizing and providing support one of the interesting things about many of the countries that we deal with is it procurement in many countries is very highly regulated by the government. This is very important to the people in the Far East that somehow the government's I guess we approve of everything that's going on here. I don't exactly know why it is, but that's just the way that they do business. Basically. We're an organization in for Haitian disseminating body from that standpoint time now is about 26 1/2 minutes after 12. We're talkin with Mark Seaton Minnesota's Commissioner of Agriculture in a few minutes. We'll be taking questions from listeners, and we'll get out and give out a couple of telephone numbers right now that you can call us at if you're listening to us in the Twin Cities area. You can call locally at 2 to 11550 that telephone number is 22115 502 ask question of agriculture commissioner sitting outside the Twin Cities and listeners with in Minnesota. However, you can call us toll-free at one 800-652-9700. Once again that toll free number to ask a question of the commissioner is one 800-652-9700. Please keep your questions as short as possible and will try to get to as many of them this weekend in about the next 15 or 20 minutes or so commissioner before we take questions from listeners that we mentioned early on a number of points that we wanted to clear up the issue of whether or not Minnesota is losing Farmers or numbers of farms, and we'll get to that in a moment. Also this business of translating the the price that consumers must pay in the supermarket compared to the price that farmers receive for a commodity idexx. I'd like to spend a bit of time talking about that. Most recently of course consumers have seen beef prices at the meat counter go up. Once again, could you give us sort of a breakdown as to what has been happening to a typical Minnesota beef producer in terms of money received from for example, the price per pound of hamburger? Well, it's very difficult. And I guess out the top of my head 10. I don't know whether I can be that accurate in terms of of the actual spread that's involved. But for example, if the live weight of an animal or the lightweight purchase price of an animal is 60 cents a pound by the time that it reaches the hanging weight stage were or perhaps a stage where the consumer is able to purchase about two-thirds of that animals left. So that would translate to an increase of maybe 90 90 cents to ride around a dollar a pound that would be going to the farm of the to be attributable to that farmer, but the farmers not getting paid a dollar to pound, you know, there are other things that are coming off like to hide which is being civil, but that is a the directly attributable price. To the wholesale what the what the wholesaler we have to pay the farmer. Let's talk for a minute Mark about what has been happening to farmers in the area of the expenses. They must pay for example in the area petroleum products what has been happening there. Just since the first of the year since January 1 fuel prices have gone up nearly 30% in terms of both gasoline and diesel fuel. It is a tremendous expense that we projected with the additional expense the in the 22 million craft Bakers. Minnesota Farmers probably are looking at a fuel bill just from crop farming. That's not the livestock of an additional fifty million dollars this year and in a moment we want to ask you about some other issues including the Grain Millers trike whether or not Minnesota is losing or gaining farmers and a few other things remind listeners of the telephone numbers. Once again, the lines are open in case you have a question of commissioner Seton. The telephone number in the Twin Cities area is 22115 502 11550 and listeners in other areas in Minnesota outside. The Twin Cities can call us toll-free. The toll free number is one 800-652-9700 caller on the line right now and we'll take the question good afternoon commission Seasons listening. I would like to know what promote the use of face or Stills and producing the alcohol. I know there's been a lot of alcohol turn Kasa on whatever and as usual. Seems to be just spinning your wheels deeper when you're doing that. So I was wondering how much is being done in terms of trying to like you so far still to run get a positive energy gain out of that. I think this is directly where the federal dollars are going to be spent. I don't know if they're going to talk about large-scale operations are on Farm. I would prefer basically on Farm operations because I think from a strategic standpoint from our own from our own dependence on on petroleum source that have to travel long distances. It's to our advantage to have solar power Stills on farm and there are other ways that this might be assisted such as in livestock operations where they have where we have seen a great increase in the number of liquid manure Handling Systems the Edition at a relatively low cost of a methane generating system to provide the additional be to use that would now be escaping in other words that type of energy would be utilized bullet isn't being used right now to provide the additional distillation. I think these are the systems that we will see and they will have a positive energy balance. What about the commitment by not only Minnesota what US farmers market in the area of pesticides and fertilizers which in some cases use large amounts of non-renewable resources. Do you think that we're seeing a change in emphasis already that more farmers are inclined to try to reduce their fertilizer use or their pesticide use. What's it? What's your experience with him on questionably. I think farmers are much more cognizant of the other costs and the cost factor, of course is one of the things that they see first we have a course of cost-benefit ratio and farmers are seeing on their own Farm, but it's in their own best interest both economically as well as environmentally to only use what what is necessary to produce that crap. And we have heard that the United States Department of Agriculture is is pursuing researching biological controls for example in the area of pesticides, but you're a farmer and also a state official. Do you feel that? This is progressing fast enough so that if a farmer for example wanted to switch from a fossil fuel-based pesticide, for example that there would be some practical cost efficient with a biological control right now. I don't think the controls are available right now, but there are some moves along the direction. In fact University. Minnesota is instituting a program called crop Pest Management, and I believe this is the first season of it's being used where they are doing of The Pest Management concept by using Scouts who go out and examined Farmers Fields. They they do it for a fee they Scout. I believe it's every five or six days to determine pest levels. And from there. The decision is made whether to treat or whether or not to treat the from Wreck. Stations of perhaps County agent or some other person who would be intimately involved in that area. I think that there are perhaps I believe in California. There is a virus for one of their insect pests that has been developed that is being used. Right that is being marketed right now and I believe that's the only commercially available biological pest that I know of but certainly how far as a farmer myself whatever is going to control at pest. I will adapt meanwhile use it right away. Lackawanna turn to a discussion of the grain Miller strike in duluth-superior that must be causing headaches for lots of State farmers because as I understand it right now farmers and elevators more importantly, perhaps are interested in getting all of the grain they have in storage report as quickly as possible so they can prepare room for the new crop that is about to be harvested in a week to ten days time. What can the State Department of Agriculture do about a grain Miller strike worth in progress in the Twin ports right? Now, for example, I presume that you don't have much leverage know we really don't have much leverage. I wish I owned a terminal or something that we could take some of the Overflow. However, there is one encouraging thing and that is said that the metropolitan area of Port facilities on a loading unloading facilities to have considerable capacity as matter fact, I last Thursday, I believe we unloaded in excess of 3200 trucks in the metro area. And that's at 5 to 700 trucks more than we used to unload and previous Seasons at all other Port facilities that includes Duluth. So the capacity has increased However, you want to get the great it's a much greater distance from North and South Dakota and Montana to Minneapolis-Saint Paul and it is to Duluth. So from the energy standpoint, it's going to take more fuel to move those those crabs down. This area will talk about the proposal a potential Railcar shortage. I guess it's not a potential shortages. If it's a real shortage of real cars in just a moment. We have a caller on the line who wants to ask a question good afternoon commissioner. Satan is listening. I would like to ask if his familiar with the research that's been done on electronic control of insects. And if he is whether the Department of Agriculture plants to promote research in that area. Well, I think it's something that always needs to be looked into of course the research that's done in areas of agronomy and insect control is done basically threw the university which we maintain liaison with and we of course speak on their behalf to the legislature. If there is a project that we see Merit in some of the electronic insect controls. I don't know what they basically what electronic controls you refer to something about control and radio frequency that so they can't find food. I definitely would support research along that line is if it can be done, you know, if it if it Can be shown that a yes or isn't, you know, we have some information that perhaps this this needs to be pursued. I haven't I'm not familiar with any research like that. I am familiar with a study was done on the electronic insect traps that were being sold. And basically I asked a professor about it and he said well, he said if you want to get rid of insects with an electronic insect control is put it over and over in your neighbors because I seem to attract more than they kill. All right, and I we want to remind other listeners that in case you have a question for commissioner seat in the lines are open. You can call us in the Twin Cities at 2 to 11550 to ask a question of Minnesota agriculture commissioner Mark Seaton the toll free number for listeners outside. The Twin Cities living with in Minnesota is one 806-529-7001. 800-652-9700 Marca about the Railcar shortage the Railroad companies particularly Burlington Northern Thomas. It is a seasonal problem. You can count on it as you can count on my guess is summer coming in. That is they simply do not have enough real car capacity to respond to these seasonal fluctuations in demand on their resources is does that explanation? Is it well with you? Well, it's a partial explanation. I do agree that there is seasonal demand broker. However, there is another explanation also that resources for construction of Hopper cars has has been there's been competing for real for real car production to haul cool and basically the cool cool cars all year round vs of the seasonal used to have a green card and I think you can have it returned when it's waiting that life probably pushes emphasis over to call Kar construction what I like to see perhaps is a multiple used type car. What about the possibility or I given a multiple use type car? But what about the possibility that farmers can organize themselves to take more control over their transportation resources trucks obviously are the entire answer. They couldn't buy as many trucks as they need to carry the grand perhaps they couldn't even by rail cars or the rail line. But what are the kinds of Alternatives do farmers have do you think in this area of trying to eliminate this seasonal bottleneck that they face? What are the emerging answers and I don't I shouldn't call it an answer yet because it's it's basically being tried now is that the elevators are releasing rehabilitated cars. They say put up so much money for having the car rehabilitated in return. They get a long-term low-cost lease where they will have the car for 5 years. These are not Hopper cars or 70-ton cars. At least it's an option that perhaps we need to explore another thing that I think we need to explore being weird. Surround ideas right now at the state level live. The governor has a transportation task force made up both of the public sector which are the state Department's as well as private sector in the private sector has come up with some good ideas to kick around. I think we need to examine the rail abandonment issue and talk about things such as public ownership of real beds and leasing on a competitive bid the service to a be on R22 somebody else insane. Okay, you know you provide a service are you can have the police to use his track and put it on a competitive basis and if they don't want to do that, I provide low-interest long-term loans so that the shippers along their can purchase their own cars and perhaps Rolling Stock and run their own mini railroad Junction. It's a sounds like somewhat the same idea that some farmer cooperatives have embraced of in the area of grain terminals for example, trying to purchase or build their own grain terminals at Gulf ports for exam. How to enhance the the export of Farmers Grain the time now is about 20 minutes before 1 this is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. We're talking with Minnesota's agriculture commissioner Mark Seaton, we have a couple of listeners would like to ask questions of your mark and we'll get to them right now. Good afternoon. Mark is listening commissioner seating could I please have your thoughts or or knowledge on the present status of the the lamp reading sewage solids as a fertilizer in Farmland? Are you aware of that? And do you have any thoughts in that area? I really I'm really not up to speed in terms of of what the problems are with I understand there have been some problems associated with it back from my student days down at the Rosemont experiment Farm on the 4-H Farm where I worked on Alfalfa. We were both cross the road was where they were doing the sludge spreading and now the odor problem was one that we were well aware of but I think that one of the difficulties with with sludge spreading and I think we To look at our sledges a resource, but one of the difficulties is with the buildup of heavy metals in the soil. This is what causes me concern more concern than the disease aspect. I think that the Taiwan is this when I was in Taiwan were explaining that as a matter of fact, they were using manure from their hog feeding operations running into ponds and a feeding carp on the debris that grew up and they were consuming the car and I asked about the sludge problem, you know, the bacteria problem because pugs to eat is very similar to to humans. I understand and they said that they're bacteriological experiments that show no problems with with transmission of diseases. And apparently the people on the mainland of China have had no problem with using human waste either over the thousands of years that they have used it or perhaps the waist do not contain the same level of heavy metals such as cadmium in Mercury as you point out that the waste in this country may contain Where near up to a municipality where they would say, okay, and I will haul the sludge out. If you could if you take it I would probably take it after an examination on and on and if I could see the that the heavy metal build up was not a problem. I understand. I'm Vaguely Familiar with a publication done in France where they did a long-term study on this heavy metal build up and they found it so they could do this even with the heavy metals in for 5 or 10 years. But at that point in time, they would have to stop or they would reach it a danger level. All right, we have another caller waiting. We'll get to that question right now. Good afternoon Marcus listening in general in foreign policy matters versus the political diplomacy in military means a foreign policy. Could you speak? I can fully support III the problem gets in becomes one of forcing one segment of your economy, which would be the agribusiness and farmers in there. A lot of people other than farmers who make their living off the air cultural economy forcing that signal economy to pay the price in a bargaining with foreign governments. And this is where I have problems because they basically have nothing to say about about the policy in the first place and then to be used as a tool. I just don't know for one thing where we can accomplish it because we are not the only food producing nation in the world and there are the countries who will probably be able to lower their standard of living somewhat him and still get by without our food. Like I want to turn for a woman to a discussion of the death of the family farm that has been announced over the past few years and I was a little surprised to learn recently that Minnesota has had no appreciable change in the number of farms in the state. That is we have about a hundred four thousand commercial Farms is US Department of Agriculture calls him. First of all his tackle that definition of what is a commercial Farm commercial farm and I guess you have to go to the USDA for their own definition. I believe their dollar figure is around $2,000 of income from sales of farm produce in some form or another and it is true that Minnesota is the only state in United States that is not seeing an appreciable reduction for I believe it's five or six years now about acres of land have changed hands. So presumably Some Farms have gotten much larger others have been as a result absorbed by larger farms in a particular area. Is that right? Well, there may have been some acreage is changing hands and especially during the drought some ditch. Some young people got started and some older Farmers retired. I think that perhaps the one of the benefits of the grand sale 1973 to Agriculture and perhaps some people would view it as a detriment would be that young Farmers or young men and women got interested again and Agriculture and they went back to the farm. So that's why you see a a larger number of young Farmers this business 10 about the death of a family farm. Minnesota has a law does it not about preventing corporate farming however, corporate family farming is allowed in Minnesota is 5000 Acres on a on a corporate form in Minnesota other words Exxon tannic or whoever could not come into Minnesota begin buying up land and incorporate either by themselves or using a subsidiary to incorporate that's what about the ownership of Minnesota Farmland by 4. Investors. Can you bring us up-to-date on that what you have heard about that? I believe we only have if I'm not mistaken about three or four of those instances in Minnesota and one of these weary of substantial acreages involved. I understand it. It's a problem in citizenship only that that the individual wants to become a citizen but it hasn't gone through the proper papers yet. So if you're not at all concerned and that foreign investors are sitting in Zurich or a bond or wherever thinking about buying Minnesota Farmland is a hedge against their us Investments or whatever in terms of total acreage here at has not been a problem in Minnesota. It's one that's very emotional and people like to capitalize on but in terms of the hard acreage figures. No it is not Finally Mark. I want to ask you about another job that you have had in your past. And that is you were chairman of Parables, Faribault County Soil and Water Conservation board. I believe the health of Farmland is an issue that we are hearing a lot more about recent play the Des Moines the Des Moines Register newspaper reporter James Risser won the Pulitzer Prize for his a series of reports on soil erosion in this country in the problem. We faced their what is your reading of the health of Minnesota Farmland as regards is organic matter and what farmers are doing to a generally well, I think that we need to really take a good hard look at it at our land because it is a resource. It's one of our renewable resources for the future in Faribault County. We put in we have averaged 25 miles of wind break. We put in 5% of all the windbreaks in the state in our County in the last couple of years mainly because we have tried to emphasize in our area to its wind erosion, of course because of the Windbreak Because of our a Windbreak we have relatively level land and soil erosion from water is not a problem. But we need to take a good hard look because I think that we have neglected this aspect. I think since the thirties brought that that await you know that Awakening to the point that we've got to we've got to save our resources and you know, it's kind of been put on the back burner and we need to as farmers and as a society take a look at this and guard this valuable resource. We have a caller on the line waiting to ask you a question. We'll get to that right now. Good afternoon. Mark is listening. I may have missed a few of your comments when I was getting to the phone that were relevant to my question, but I just came back from visiting in Montana where and in between where a fair amount of irrigation is done of what in previous years was considered rather marginal land and it was suggested that the trend towards using that kind of land and using a lot of your gay. Which I assume was partially because we are losing our agricultural land in the more fertile parts of the Midwest wondering if you could comment on who's monitoring that kind of friend and how significant why don't think first of all the increase in irrigation there is because we are losing our productive land that isn't we are losing Farmland tus to Urban expansion. It isn't because because of soil erosion that doesn't occur overnight or that doesn't occur this rapidly the increase in acreage under your gation, I would say is because of the economic situation know the crap that they're going. They're basically or the crops that they will attempt to grow at this point are valuable enough that they feel it an investment in irrigation justifies that irrigation is energy intensive and that's why I guess I have some concerns about it too. But again even as energy-intensive as it is, I believe that the net output is still greater in calories and And yet given the phenomenal front end investment of various kinds of irrigation systems of your a 27 year old farmer from Southern Minnesota rent 330 acres of land. Would you invest in an irrigation system if you wanted to continue farming until you were 65, for example, I wouldn't down there because our annual rainfall in about 30 in so we get by with what Mother Nature gives us very well, even though I occasionally we do have dry weather when one considers economics of an irrigation system, you have got to consistently get an increase in yield a substantial increase in yield to justify utilizing that system may have another caller on the line will get to that question right now. You're you're you're being listened to by Mark Seaton, so go ahead. Yes, or in regard to maintaining our land I have heard that pesticide some pesticides kill a earthworm in the earthworm is very necessary for the help with the lamp. I like to hear something about that. Well, I don't know which pesticide say I have the toxicity to earthworms. However, a study was done at Watseka. I believe I buy a graduate student on the effect of fertilizer on earthworms because there was some concern that that heavy fertilizer use would decrease a population of earthworms and that particular study they found that the maximum number of earthworms were found under fields that were heavily fertilized. I do think we need to be very cognizant of the effects of pesticides and insecticides on the earthworm population because they are very helpful. But the buffering capacity of soil is such that up till now it has been a problem. We've been talking with Minnesota's agriculture commissioner Mark Seaton. Thanks for joining us and I'm sure as things develop in Minnesota is agricultural economy would be calling on you again to answer questions for us. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure being here.

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