Good morning, and welcome to Spectrum. I'm rich diekman in st. Paul and today on Spectrum. We get some advice on what to do with children when the novelty of summer vacation wears thin we have a guest in our Saint Paul Studios this morning who will help us with that discussion and some discussion of some other hurdles in child rearing as well and will also invite listeners to call in questions at some point in the program first. Let's take a look at the weather information around the region.At nine o'clock in Rochester 63 degrees Fahrenheit 17 Celsius under cloudy skies in St. Cloud cloudy and 57 Fahrenheit 14 Celsius in the Twin Cities an hour ago, Cloudy Skies 64 Fahrenheit. That's 18 degrees on the Celsius scale about an hour ago. The National Weather Service radar showed some patches of light rain in Southwestern Minnesota and Northern Iowa a train was south west of a line from Montevideo to 30 miles east of Mason City, Iowa surface reports indicate that that rain extends back into Northwestern, Iowa and Eastern South Dakota and the Weather Service says the rain is likely to be in the Twin Cities metro area in about an hour from right now the forecast for today through tomorrow is for a chance of scattered showers and thunderstorms highs today in the Twin Cities should range from the upper 60s to the low 70s lows tonight from the mid to upper 40s and tomorrow's highs should be in the upper 60s to low 70s.For the past 10 years Ray McGee has worked as a psychiatric social worker at the Washburn Child Guidance Center in Minneapolis. He is described as a self-concept Enthusiast and he works with children and their parents in both individual and group settings. He also teaches parent education classes at Washburn center before coming to the center real McGee worked as a classroom teacher. He was a Peace Corps volunteer in Africa and he spent time as well working as a probation officer Ray. Welcome. Good morning. Thank you. I guess I'd like to begin by asking you to talk a little bit about what parents might do after three or four weeks of summer vacation than most cases that vacation has begun and things are probably still a little bit fresh around the house having the kids home all day. But what happens long about the first of July when when small Wars break out in the family, there's some things that parents can keep in mind to do that will lessen the tensions. I think that there's been a myth about what Summers been in youngsters andParents always look forward to summer vacation in light of this myth and it's supposedly that kind of barefoot boy cheeks of tan kind of thing. I think and and but for many parents that's a really traumatic kind of thing all at once they have the full-time responsibility for the child again, and there's quote not the professional the teacher who's taking over much of the chunks Behavior. So I picked can become quite a frightening type of experience because being a parent is one of probably the most difficult jobs in the world and it's the one that we are given the least amount of print training and preparation for and when one finds themselves with the total Town growing responsibility during the summer months, it can become quite frightening.So hopefully this morning I can talk about some of the resources that are available within the community but more than the resources some of the things that parents can do in a skill kind of manner to help it be a positive and beneficial semi for them and their children, hopefully. There are many Community Resources available for kids this summer. I've made a point in the past several weeks of trying to find some out of contact with the various Library systems within the seven County area. There's an amazing amount of programs available films and all kinds of entertainment programs creative art programs. Those kinds of things the Museum's the school systems all are offering programs Park and Recreation boards all of these experiences, which hopefully can be good and enriching experiences for youngsters. But more than just good and enriching experiences. I'm looking at opportunities for kids to really have an increased awareness of themselves and their strengths and their good capabilities. Hopefully each youngster that we know can have an opportunity to to really be enriched in terms of his strengths and those things on which he can grow healthily and happily how do parents go about moving in that direction, especially when when there is a little tension already present in the relationship. The grass hasn't been cut and and the garage hasn't been cleaned out and parents are a little bit testy about all that because they'd like to sit back with a glass of lemonade to and and relax and how does a parent to withdraw perhaps a little bit from that and take a more analytical approach which sounds like you're suggesting. Hopefully it isn't too difficult to thing that I that I want to suggest. Done. I do a lot of public speaking and and I have like Eight titles for speeches of people can get that people can select from the basically get the same kind of speech. However, my favorite title for a speeches. Who do we catch them being in? Who do we tell them they are and and I'll repeat that who do we catch them being and who do we tell them they are I'd like for people involved with children this summer to be particularly conscious of who do we tell them they are and we need to really structure things so that we can tell them that they're strong responsible smart capable trustworthy individuals. If we can have that message come across in enough kinds of ways during that summer those youngsters are certainly going to be enriched in terms of the self-concept kinds of things that you mentioned. Yes. I am. I self-concept enthusiasm Well, they had some years as being a classroom teacher. I was I was well trained and expected by the community in which I taught. To speak very strongly to those youngsters about what was wrong with them and when I caught him being lazy or dumb or are responsible or cheating or lying I was very very quick to tell them in no uncertain terms because it was almost a mandate for me to convince them of their unworthy. Fortunately after several years of that I I did have enough of a conscience. Apparently that I decided that I'd better quit teaching everyone wondered why I was going to quit while I didn't really know why but I did quit in later years. I've come to the point where I could honestly pray that those youngsters never believed anything. I told them because if they did believe some of that unfortunate stuff of 20 years later, I'm afraid of probably going to be very very unhappy adults and probably not very good parents and they probably aren't parents these days because I I was convinced her. I was told that you did not tell any one of their strengths because there was this Almighty fear of a big head and I think that's a fear that many many people have and I don't know just where it comes from but My belief is so strongly that that you cannot grow. You cannot develop good character on weaknesses. You you grow as your strengths are recognized and as you have a really healthy self acceptance of those strengths and and so what I would hope that parents would be able to do this summer is to look at that youngster and catch him being responsible. Absolutely as many times as he can and most often if a youngster is told often enough that he is responsible. He's going to become even more responsible. But if intern you do go out of your way to catch and convince him that he's irresponsible. It's going to be a much more painful kind of Summer. I think as far as someone goes I think kids need structure and and I think this is lots of times everybody so glad to have school often they have this old myth about Summer is a completely unstructured time that they let him sleep until 10:30 in the morning and they let him go out and run around and eat whenever they want to and those kinds of things know sometimes that time my Godly Parents are going to live through it. You have to have structure. That means that you have milk time. It doesn't mean that it has to be particularly rigid, but that there are certain. Things that are going to happen in each day and an expected time certain consequences for it not happening baseball practices is something that's incorporated into a day. So there doesn't have to be trauma about not showing up for dinner on time and those kinds of things I think of my younger days this summer and I that's night as I was reflecting on this. I can never remember not having a job. I most often didn't get paid for my jobs as a young child, but I always had a job. I remember being maybe five years old and and and one of my jobs was in my grandfather's story. I grocery store and my job was to clean the candy counter. There were these big trays of orange slices and and chocolates and chocolate-covered peanuts and Trays that you would scoop out and I was supposed to get all that lined up. Well, of course, I didn't get paid. But of course I Gorge myself I could smell the orange slices last night as I thought about that but I've always had a job. I've always had a job of some kind in the summer often. It was just working in my parents family store, but there were certain responsibilities that always were there. Not that I want to emulate my childhood and every kid in the metropolitan area that isn't so because there were many aspects of it that were painful. But but I think that kind of structure is sense of responsibility something organized so that we can tell the kid he has a strength so that they can demonstrate for for you that they're able to carry out a procedure or do something and do it correctly or responsibly. That's right. And and then as far as you know, what parents can do, I guess I always speak of it in terms of of the art of noticing and in and what I mean by that is that But when you see her when you acknowledge that youngster doing well that you don't just silently say to yourself. Thank goodness. He did it. But did you acknowledge to the youngster? Because this is our opportunity to convince them of their worth be it with verbal praise or be it with the snap of the finger. I think click of the tongue of a sock in the arm of the wink of the eye or the kick in the behind. I don't care what it is. But something that says I got you man. I saw that because this is our opportunity to convince them of their work and from very very young children to to Upper teens and and adults we do like a subtle meaningful significant recognition of our strengths and it's on that kind of thing that our self-concept goes up and our level of performance will improve re you mentioned working in your grandfather's store when you were a youngster. And as those stores have gone gone by the wayside and it's just one example of how lots of things have changed in our society. There are far fewer mom and pop stores in which to work. Are there really as many things for youngsters to do today that can give them that sense of responsibility. I think there are as many things for them to do today. In fact, they're probably more things to do today. And one of the common crimes that I hear in my offices with all of the many many things for them to do they sit around and say they're bored. Well, I have I have her course some ideas about why they're going to sit around and say they're born because we have we have all kinds of programs. We have all kinds of things and activities. To help these youngsters be occupied but much more than to be occupied. We have to make those activities contribute to that youngsters sense of worth and and this again comes back to that kind of noticing to this acknowledgement. Lots of times. We think well, we provide a program and that's what we need to do. We need to provide a program and we need to provide the acknowledgement of strength that goes with it and an n and that in itself is the motivating force which keeps youngsters kind of tuned in him and feeling like I want to go back for more of that all the programs in the world can be absolutely meaningless. As far as I'm concerned if they don't have Incorporated this positive acknowledgement of strength and I say that over and over and over I I can bore people terribly because I say no no wait, but we have to find those. I have these little models, you know, you have to catch him being good. You have to go out of your way. I have to get right down he have to pull that behavior apart and pull out a strength out of the middle of it before I get in their face because our our task is to convince them of that strength. So I say, you know that with all of those programs that that what needs to be incorporated is this the sense of noticing the spring I've worked with numerous Park and Recreation board some trying to help these people and they're really willing to listen to this message in and try to do it for the most part. Nobody saying that you need to really go out there and acknowledge strength. I always wear a little button. I don't have one with me this morning. I don't know how I got out of the house without it a little button that says I like myself and we buy those buttons by the thousands of the center because every kid that comes to our Center. Really must have a reason to like himself people used to be really concerned about that button that this was a conceit button and I say that I've never yet met a conceited person that like themselves the conceited person is always trying to prove to someone else something that inside. He's not very sure of he's going out seeking acknowledgement for very unsure kinds of strengths. And and so the button that says I like myself as a button that says wait I have some things about me that are okay and then a youngster can begin to see himself in terms of being somebody able to meet the challenges of our world. Oh my it's different these days. I can't I don't like to go into a junior high school today. They're almost frightening experiences to go in between classes hundreds and hundreds of kids. Most of whom don't know each other or don't have any particular warm feelings towards one another And to me, it seems almost like a hostile a hostile ground. And and I know that all those kids most of those kids go off into that world without any real trauma associated with it. There are some who do have trauma associated with it. It becomes such a frightening thing that they can't do it, but I often say to myself and I don't know if this was would be so we're not but that if I had of had to go to a school that large and what seems to me a hostile kind of environment, I'm afraid I probably wouldn't have made it, you know, go back to the the designing or setting out of a program you use that word a couple of times that either parents or Recreation workers are teachers can put together for for youngster. Is that a kind of thing that can be a collaborative sort of thing. I guess. I have a number of questions tossing around my head right now. I'm wondering I'd like some practical suggestions or maybe an example in your own. Look at how this has happened how parents are maybe come to you and said, we just don't know what to do with our son or daughter and how it's worked so that they have keyed in on an individual set of good quote unquote or responsible actions. I guess I'm thinking that that in many cases, you know parents and children. It seems they've lived together obviously since that's or maybe not obviously but often they lived with that child since birth and there are certain things that have become to become taken for granted. How do you get through that house apparent go back and start discovering that child is not just a sort of an object. But as a real person because that seems to be sort of at the heart of what you're talking about. Okay, I think what I'll do with your question first is depersonalized it in a way. This happened a number of years ago. I was told that I must that I must think of a child as a Pewter and and I was extremely offended by that, you know know know that town because that magnificent brain that most magnificent gift of God kind of thing. But but over a period of months and subsequent years. I I really do like to think of that youngster and an adult also as being a computer because in our modern technological world, we treat computers with a lot more respect than we treat brains. And and if one of our big computer corporations built a computer that they charge multi-million dollars for the they build a building for it in the air conditioning and the dehumidifier it in the dust control it and they put Big Blocks on it and they hire somebody many thousands of dollars a year to push the buttons on the Magic Machine and and because everybody knows that if you put bad data into a computer, you're going to get a worthless product to know on and absolutely no one questioned that and I wish that they would have as much respect for children and brains and and other people and that means that moment of birth is that most magnificent of computers absolutely brand-new better than anything that our corporations will ever build and what the life is from moment of birth until moment of death is going out into our world collecting cards about who we are and you can catch a kid being good or you can catch him being bad. You can tell him when he's weaker. You can tell him when he's strong you can catch him. In responsible or irresponsible worthless are worthwhile. An end that we have to become very very conscious of what do we catch him be? The yard, okay, you tell the kid to go. Mow the yard and he doesn't get it done. He hasn't gotten it done for five years the chances of him going out tomorrow and finishing it I going to be quite Slim. So so maybe we better say wait you really got started well yard today. The implied message is that yes, you haven't finished but you did get started. Well, at least we're acknowledging something that was done. Now many people say to me. I can't be that nice to him. It is paper. We'd better send him to Camp, you know, because if if you're going to convince him of his failure as a human and you can do that. This past week. I had a youngster and who has stolen two times the spring in significant incidents. Nothing really very big numbers was a real reason in both instances. And that parent was very very fearful that on the hands. I had to come to Maniac I said, well if we want one we can have one within two months time we can prove to that kid that they're klepto and I'm sure that we could get one. You know, we could get somebody who says yes. It's in the cards. I am I am one I might as well be me or we can also take 99.9% of that child's Behavior, which is honest. And in this case it was and convince them that they're honest that they have integrity and those kinds of things. Does that kind of answer the question? Yes, it does. I guess the other part the part of the maybe this will have to get into when listeners give us some specific situations to work with but I guess that is what I'm interested in is maybe a specific example of how how parents might take a look at a son or a daughter who with whom they have pretty good relationship, but she the summer is being kind of a tense time and keying in and finding what that person's talents are and perhaps in most cases parents already know that they may have started to take those talents for granted. But but with just a little bit of nudging why they might come to look at those again and decide that they might want to send that son or daughter to perhaps some special program. They've heard about in the community for a morning or two a week and that sort of thing that seems to be somewhat at least you're saying Yes, and in that an in that I would say that that I would like to think that many parents would try to become specific. In their goals for that child rather than a global goal of being good. Okay, I'd much rather see him have it in terms of of one goal would be getting up on time. Another goal would be being in the house of on time in the evening. Another goal would be getting off to their activity without any hassle kind of thing so that we're very specific so we can say wait you have really been Responsible and getting to your typing class or whatever on time many of the programs within the metropolitan area do require a considerable amount of Transportation those kinds of problems. And and many of the youngsters are really called upon to use the public transit system. Well, I think that any youngster that can go out and figure out and and managed to catch their buses and get to wherever they're supposed to on time. They need some good recognition of that and it's through that that that they're being responsible and capable. Hopefully then they're also going to have a program that's going to really enrich them. They're going to feel very comfortable with The time is coming up on 24 minutes past 10:00 o'clock and you're listening to a discussion of how to handle some common problems that might come up in the family during the summer time when kids are off on summer vacation and with us in the studio helping with that discussion is Ray McGee who is a psychiatric social worker with Washburn Child Guidance Center in Minneapolis. If you have a question for Ray McGee, you can call us now at 2 2 1 1 5 5 0 in the Twin Cities area. That's two two one one five five zero if you live outside the metropolitan area, but in the state of Minnesota, you can call us toll-free at 1-866-553-2368. Ofri Watts number and I'll give it again. It's 1-800-662-2386 win City's number again is to to 11550 Andrei while we're waiting for listeners to call in some questions. I'd like to turn our discussion in the direction. No something that's been labeled School violence or violence in the classroom for lack of a better term the Minneapolis Star this past week ran a couple of articles in one evening Edition about what they called a growing amount of violence in the schools and particularly in the lower grade levels. I'm wondering if you see that same kind of Trend in your work as a counselor. I'd say that we see. much more disruptive behavior earlier earlier in one's School career kind of thing. I would have no way of knowing whether we see more violence of such. I don't know how that's described. I would imagine that within the metropolitan area that yes, we could say that they would be more violence in the schools or more disruptive behavior. Whatever as our schools have become larger as these youngsters have much less a sense of connectedness between their home and their school their very well is going to be more acting out kinds of behavior. I would think the controls are are less on these youngsters. And so they very well are going to maybe be more disruptive because they're not going to feel that that behavior is going to have consequences in their whole life kind of them. I'd like to talk more about that. But I believe we have a listener on the line right now and we'll go to that person right now. Good morning. We're listening for your question. I had a question regarding the roles of appearance what sorts of things make a mother closer to their children than a father and what can a father do about that? A good question. I like that. I feel that father's over a long period of time have been I'm going to say neglected and or cheated in those been very very little expectation societal expectation other than as a provider and that that many times this has been about the only expectation that has been made for fatherhood. Then we had a we've gone through many many other kinds of ideas about what's going wrong with the kids and that kind of thing and we got into the communication thing which in many ways but a large guilt trip on fathers of they were not expressive enough that they didn't share the feelings and that's that they didn't emote enough hug enough touch enough these kinds of things which for many males in our society today. That was something that I've been very well trained not to do and so I think that instead of trying to make anybody feel guilty about that. One of the things that we can do is to tell fathers of their many many kinds of ways that they can notice and it can be with the simple look with the snap of the finger a recognition of behavior. And it doesn't mean that you have to become a few Savannah gushy Fountain of Praise, but that you're that very very subtle and sophisticated kind of noticer and I would say that any father who can learn how to snap his finger in acknowledgement of strengths that can look the contentious it can smile that can just do a simple wink of the eye and make sure that that youngster sees it and if that comes in recognition of strength that father's going to be held in much higher regard by his youngster. And and so he can be my silent. But what I'm saying, is that that that he's going to be in acknowledging strength. He's going to be making his youngster feel much much more capable. As a person in that respect is going to come back to that father has to be interested in the first place. It's nothing has to be interested or it's yeah, I guess I'd say have to be instead interested. But you know, I don't think there isn't a father who isn't interested of the thousands of parents. I've met I've never yet met one who wanted to be destructive to the youngster. I've met some who have been but never by choice and I always have to keep that in mind that weight that that person didn't do that because I want to destroy the kid they're desperate. They don't know what else to do and I think that you know, it's kind of like, you know, unless would be some really strangely ill kind of person. Who really wanted to be destructive now, even with the battered children in those kinds of things most often that's out of frustration of not knowing what else to do and resorting to some really inappropriate behavior, but most often done because they want things to be different. I get the message that you're saying that father or parent can be natural about the way they notice their kids strengths but that it's well for them to tell their kid or communicate in some way that they say that they're approving and that they saw that strength. Yes and and so often, you know, what's the classroom teacher I never I never ever told my kids when I caught them being good, you know, I just kept my mouth shut and zip my lip and hope that they would continue for 50 minutes being good. Well after three minutes, you know, they were they weren't being good anymore. And then when they got bad then I would really tell them about it. You know, I'd catch him being mean lazy dumb irresponsible Noble. Thanks, but I was afraid and I had been trained not to acknowledge the strength. Thank thank thank you. Thank you for calling we have some phone lines that are open. We have a caller on the line. But before we go to that person, let me give the numbers again in the Twin Cities area. If you'd like to ask a question of counselor Ray McGee from Washburn Child Guidance Center. You can call us at 2 2 1 1 5 5 0 that's two two one one five five zero in the Twin Cities area. If you live outside the Twin Cities, but in the state of Minnesota and you're listening to this program, you can call us at 1-800-669-9133. Go to our next listener on the line. Good morning. We're listening for your question. Yes. I've been working a little bit with the children in connection with the PA parents Anonymous meeting and I'm wondering whether you'd like to say something about that. What do you think we can do for for these children? For children who have been abused in some ways. I want you asking. Yes, I would say so and their parents are in, you know having a session seems to me. This is a very useful thing and I guess you were talking about this a little bit and I turned off the radio so I could call and so I don't know maybe you've already know I haven't I guess I would I would like to parents Anonymous for those of you who don't know PA is as I understand it a self-help a 12-step self-help group for parents who have or are fearful of abusing a child. And and and so they're trying to change their own behavior. One of the things that I think that that happens here and I guess this would be my biggest concern as far as the child is concerned but previous to the parents involvement in a program like this. There's been something that's LED close to physical abuse if not some physical abuse and so in that period of time the youngster in terms of my computer analogy has received a lot of bad cards. Okay, a lot of that child's poor Behavior has been strongly acknowledged. He is bad mean no good lazy irresponsible cheater of either or something and those cards have gone in now without guilt. And and this is the nice thing about thinking about it in terms of a computer that yes, I'm extremely glad that that parent is King some good efforts to change that behavior And as far as the child is concerned we must be must be really careful that we try to remove those cards from their computer that weight that we prove that they are not dishonest that they are honest that they're not bad that they are good. We don't have to say I apologize we can say there was a technical mistake. Thank you, but we have to change these cards and and if it were to happen with a computer, we certainly would unplug the machine until we decided what to do. And and what we've done with these kids is often times. We've just left those cards in. Well, they're in let's leave them there for the rest of their life and we really do we leave them there. I must be a very frustrating experience for a child to get one set of of stimuli and then have it turn around and be another way. How do you how do you get the bad cards out? I don't know. My feeling is getting the bad cards out is that you just did that what you have to do is just continually acknowledge that opposite Behavior the town. Who's been a liar? I continually have to catch them being honest, but it much my job to convince him. He's honest rather than him to convince me. He's a liar. Okay, and and you know parents come to me and say make my kid convince me. He's good. No, no, we have to convince the kid. He's good because he's vulnerable to us. He's vulnerable. We're putting in his cards on which he operates and so ma'am has further question is concerned. I think that we just have to be very very careful that we really look at that in terms of a reprogramming that sounds so cold and hostile and kind of stainless steel. Like I don't want it to be but it gives us a kind of a very methodical task-oriented kind of thing now, I gotta change that card. Does that make sense? I'm not sure that she's willing since we have another listener on the line. But let me give the the phone numbers again. For those of you who'd like to ask Ray McGee of Washburn Child Guidance Center a question in the Twin Cities 2211550221 1550 outside the Twin Cities, but in Minnesota one 865 to 9700 and we have another listener on the line. Good morning. We're listening for your question. Hello. Mr. McGee. What advice could you give a parent who's got an adolescent daughter who apparently can't control her temper or says she can't control her to him. I always love that one because I just think that I have never for instance ever. Let a child go out of my office saying that they can't control their temper. I think that's probably I think that would be the worst card that I think are youngster could have in their personal computer a kind that says that I can't control my temper and and so I always tell youngsters know you have to say it you have to say it before you leave here. I'm I don't care whether you're lying or not, but you gotta say it. You can't go until you say and they don't want to it's like it's like saying something about themselves. They don't want to give it up. They've kind of used it as an excuse for a long time to admit that they can control her temper. Yes. I'm trying to get him to say wait. I do control my temper and I'll say just repeat after me without thinking I don't care, you know and they'll say why do I have to say it and I said because you're dangerous thank you. I have to see your folks. You have to sit in our waiting room for a few minutes. We have some bread. Kids around here. I don't want to go down in a half hour find some kid dead on the floor you with the dumb grin on your face saying, oh he bugged me and I can't control my temper. Our prisons are full of those. Okay. Now, I don't mean to scare you. Excuse me, that's terrible. But but I think what you need to do right off the bat is why do you have to say to her? Wait just say you can control your temper and Make Her Say It Make Her Say it one time a day five times a day. I don't care what that's how we begin to reprogram a long time ago. I told myself that I like to enjoyed not smoking cigarettes the center of smoking saying I like and enjoy not smoking cigarettes. I said it ten times a day. I made a point of saying it ten times a day within two and a half weeks. I did I liked and enjoyed not smoking and I haven't smoked for about a year well over a year, but the thing is that that I had to reprogram. I find it really exciting as an adult to be able to do that. Your daughter also will find it exciting once she can make Then she'll say that sounds so dumb. Oh it does. It sounds like the dumbest thing in the world to just sit around saying that thing but but I'd never ever say to her or let her say in your presence, but she can't control her temper if she can't and if you really feel there's something physically about her that she can't then I would suggest a good evaluation. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. Thank you. Thank you for calling. Our number in the Twin Cities is 2211550221 1550 outside of the Twin Cities one 865 to 9700 and we have another listener on the line with us. Go ahead with your question. Yes. Mr. McGee. I have a really good kid. He's nine-year-old and I like him very much but it was as if he is not all focused on anything and I want him to make a few choices so that he can pick out some things that he enjoys Annex. And Excel in them not maybe getting a Guinness World Book of Records, but do well and take comfort and pride from this and I don't know just how to go about this. Could you give me some ideas about this? Okay, one of the things that I think that I would say is that you would should probably try to be quite specific and again bring it down to first of all one one thing in particular. If you could just know down to one small thing shouldn't that be his choice? Not just his it also has to be something of which you would approve. Okay. He might want to be come the best motorcycle rider in the Twin Cities. Okay, and that would be inappropriate for him. Okay. Now it may be that he wants to become a diver. It may be that he would link to be a model builder, but trying to Keep it first of all into one specific thing where you think he could be successful and then in that owed lay it on really heavy. Okay to convince him the weight. He really does have the capabilities and the qualities and how don't hesitate to let him know how excited it makes you feel to see him turned on now. It doesn't have to be for an hour time. If he can't do it for an hour, then you get excited for about 10 minutes of it. Okay, but don't wait, you know, don't wait if he even gets started with a task good then we must acknowledge. It don't say to yourself silentio. I hope it lasts for an hour because the chances if you keep silent of it lasting well for an hour are bad and then you only have is a failed task now we have to break that behavior down. If it I'm trying to think of something and I'm at a loss right now. I've something that is very specific. Okay baseball, we always have these summer Sports kinds of things. I sat down beside a ball game in that long ago and I watch those guys on in center field, you know, there they are a batting practice. They were out there for 25 minutes without a ball coming close and and they were had laid down their gloves and they were starting to horse around and the coach, you know, and I felt sorry for him too because he didn't know he was trying to do a good job, but he started to chew these kids out for being lazy 25 minutes. I stood out there in the hot sun waiting for a bomb to come Coast at the end of five minutes if he had a said guys who don't really well out there were going to try to get a ball out to you. You're being cool. They probably could have made it for a longer period Time for what? He did. He went for 25 minutes with them standing out there getting more and more bored after 25 minutes. They started to act up a little bit and then they got chewed out and what they ended up with then was a whole set of negative cards playing ball had been a bad experience. So we have to whatever task it is be a doing dishes. I mean, I don't know most people I guess I've dishwashers now, but but no kids have to do dishes and if they never get the task completed then you for have to first acknowledge that that well you really got started. Well tonight, you know, that sounds like some people say well that's way too Pollyanna issue. No, that's the thing. You can't be cheery all the time. No, you can deal with the weakness. You can deal with the poor Behavior. But only after you have first recognized the good behavior with the dishes. Well, at least you got started really good. The implied message is you didn't finish but we didn't rub their nose in it. And so for this father who is calling in you're suggesting that he key in on some of his sons interests and and maybe sit down and talk to him about them. But also not say well, what would you like to do? In other words? He should provide some guidance. There should be a yes because maybe maybe you could give him a choice of three things that you think would be appropriate and three things and say which one would you like to start out on of these three and then he can make a he has a choice but within your guidelines Okay. Okay. We have some other callers on the line and let me give our number out. Again 2211550 in the Twin Cities area 221 1550 outside the Twin Cities 1-800-662-2386 for Ray McGee child counselor. We have another listener on the line right now. Go ahead with your question, please yes, you really stuck a responsive chord when you told about the orange slices in the candy. I came up the same way and a my question is I worked in my father's store and came up from the candy counter to the buyer to managing the entire store, which was like a supermarket in years ago. And then four of us in the family did the same thing and we were trained well, and we also worked at home because my mother helped in the store. We were close and I came out is a very poor image of myself at home. And now I'm running my own home and I can't Anything where I give it? I don't do anything. Well, whatever. I do polish it table or washing window, but it did extremely well in the store and I remember that I was praised by my father but I think we got all got the same treatment in this was exactly the reverse for my sister. She did extremely well at home and has a good film image of herself. Hmm, and I wonder how I can. Account for that and then how I can also use this knowledge to help my own grandchildren. Now, I see okay. Let me respond a bit to that in the in the growing up experience that I had to I my parents probably more than anyone that I know really wanted to do a good job of raising three sons was in a terribly small little town where there was a lot of social pressure to to meet the town's Norms. I was very I was bright. I got all these in school but everybody they used to say don't ever let anyone see your report card because you'll hurt their feelings and lose your friends and disappoint us, you know, don't you didn't have too much to do with that. God made. You smart. Don't let that one show do keep it up. However, you know, kind of think I went too. Teen with the school for 19 years trying to keep it up without letting anybody know I was short I was skinny and grossly uncoordinated and they put me out on a basketball floor two times a week only when we got too far ahead or too far behind. So there was no question of that. The game was imbalance but it was like well that's ever I go out there. We were going to laugh at him for a bit. You know, I did everything I could to get big. I ate five times a day through up about, you know, kind of thing. I didn't get big I'd hang onto the top of the bed and stretch my feet out. You know, I wanted to get I didn't get taller but I went out and and and and their man that was nothing I remember lying in bed thinking, you know, God made me short skinny, uncoordinated and smart. Why do they tell me to flaunt three of them? But don't let anybody know that other one. Well, so I grew up with that. I went off. I had that kind of negative experience teaching and it was when I went in the Peace Corps when I quit teaching when I knew it was bad. I went in the Peace Corps They put me in a solitary Outpost in Aunt West Africa. I thought you know, they left me at an empty house out in the middle of the Jungle with two bags of luggage two boxes of groceries in a 55-gallon drum accuracy. And and the jeep was driving away. They had said we'll come and check on you in two weeks. It was eight and a half thousand miles to anyone. I knew and I thought you don't have to come in two weeks because I'll be dead or gone by then, you know, but it was out there two years out there that I found out that weight. I had a lot of patience and a lot of smarts. I handle on a persistence all kinds of stuff and and that's why that experience was so good because they are I began to give myself credit for the fact that I had some strengths and ma'am your what you say, you know, that really makes sense. And I think you know that you have some strength you have some things that are good and you must you must really Again to tell yourself that as far as with your grandkids or grandmothers have a really really fine role there because grandmother's can say nice things for Generations. Grandma's have been allowed to say these things to the kids. The parents haven't been allowed to well. I'm trying to give parents that same permission to say that but oh ma'am, you have that permission and if it's honest and if you can find the the evidence for it, oh say it to them. It might be what they grow strong on. Thank you for your question. The time is 11 minutes before 11 o'clock and you're listening to a discussion of raising children. And our guest is Ray McGee. And if you'd like to ask a question of re you can call us at 2 2 1 1 5 5 0 in the Twin Cities area that's to to 11550. We have another listener on the line. Good morning. We're listening to your question. Mr. McGee. I wonder if you would say a few words about step-parenting. I'm thinking in particular of teenagers and rejection and ignore. Along those lines. Okay in a situation where there's been a divorce and remarriage. Is that the kind of thing you're saying? Okay, I will assume that it is I think and I was saying earlier this morning as we're having a small conversation that there's been I don't know maybe half the children that are going to grow up in this generation are going to be affected by divorce and remarriage has there's been a myth in the past and I think we must say it's a myth that being from one Pam one parent family is a is a detriment in a sometimes real hurdle. That one has to overcome. I think we have to get away from that one can have one parent one can go through divorce and still come out of it being very healthy. And what we must remember is that all the time that we're doing that do we keep away from giving pity to a youngster pity as far as I'm concerned is the dirtiest four-letter word that there is and they cannot grow strong on pity. You can you can recognize strength. You can recognize his guts his patience his persistence his his pain and all of those things. But when we start to give pity it says you are a poor weak no good person. And so we have to we have to regard pity as being way off in about them. Now one of the things that happens is we still have again those ideas that wait. If only you had been a good adult you wouldn't have gotten a divorce and and when one feels that way then it says that message says I'm a bad parent. I'm a bad adult who shouldn't have done this. And so when you have that kind of guilt and really feel that then you are unable again to give your kid those positive kinds of Vibes that he so badly needs. And so if we can keep it on the strength kind of orientation goodness gracious is no reason why a youngster can't grow really well with one parent and Natural parents and the stepparent whatever and and I think we must tell ourselves that wait despite all of this a youngster can grow healthily. Sometimes we say wait with all of this going on. Maybe he can't grow healthily as long as we keep that may be in there. We have an out. No, he can grow healthily and it's up to us and our parents responsible adults that if we can tell a youngster what his strengths are and really be honest and consistent and persistent about it. He's going to grow strong and I think we must accept that challenge in in Walden Thoreau says and it's probably my favorite quote of all quotes to affect the quality of the day. That is the highest of the Arts. We all do affect the quality of the day. We all have great impact on other people who cross our path and as parents as step parents as neighbors has as shopkeepers teachers, we affect the quality of anybody's day who happens to run into us and and we'd better think of that really responsibly. I can make somebody feel better. I can make him feel worse if I make him feel worse than not going to act as well if I can make them feel stronger and more capable. They're going to be stronger and more capable and more responsible people. Thank you. You you seem to be saying that step parents need not feel inferior to to Natural parents in that's right. That's right and a stepparent can buy far be the most significant and helpful person in the youngsters life. Very good we have about seven minutes left in our program and still some listeners on the line. So we'll go to the next one. Good morning. We're listening for your question. Good morning. I'm calling from st. Cloud and I realize you're sure of time. So let me throw a couple of comments out. Okay? All right, I agree with what the last comments that he was making this to Maggie that I phrase it as giving the child's self-esteem and mother is a mother of nine children. I'm the oldest and I was at visiting her recently and of course she would offer advice and I would gladly taken and she would say, let me tell you something. The one thing I think your father is failed at is giving the children's self-esteem. And that's where you know, there is a little bit of failure she feels in his part that's where she's tried so hard with all the children and she impressed upon me to praise and to well self-esteem is a tremendous Factor, okay? Young child is very young child. Maybe you can relate to this. I would like your comments on part-time work for me. Not not for the money, but just to socialize the child who's almost a year with other adults and they have no family in town and I would like to get him acclimated to the idea that there are other adults besides the parents who really can care for him. And what is your comment on that my comment on that is that I think that in today's modern world that again like with the broken home kinds of situations we can no longer say that youngsters who have a working mother can't grow healthily. They can grow much more healthily in many regards lots of times if I'm if a woman is staying home and and feels like she's really cut herself off from her world. She's not going to be a very happy person who's going to be able to help that sound something. Team in many ways and if she can go out and feel somewhat productive somewhat more socialized in that outside world. She can have much more quality time with her youngster when she does have time to spend with him and I say this and I say really strongly that I just feel we have to be so so concerned with the quality of time. I'd lands rather have a short period of really healthily quality time spent with a child than a than a long period of negative derisive destructive time. And I think this goes with the working parent they can do well they can do work. You can go back to that part of your life and he can still grow healthily. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for calling we have time for just one more question and let's go to a listener right now. Good morning. You're on the Good morning. I'd like to say first of all, I appreciate very much to all the information you're passing on here and I agree with good 90% or better than good. Thank you. My question is that like to extend your childness to the young adolescent say if you pardon the expression the child who is 18 19 years old and they still have not really gained. This is one woman caller self-esteem. What kind of positive reinforcement can you really give a child? Who's that old other than just saying? Well, you can do it go out there and live on your own and meanwhile this particular child has failed in school. They're still not graduated from high school. Okay. That's a that's a good question. And I think is very well asked one of the things that we can do is that we can we can give them some Education First of all about the importance of knowing what their Drinks are any kid that comes to my office at some point? I do ask them. I say I want you to tell me some things that are good about you and the eight me for that but they get uncomfortable. They dig their feet in the carpet. They look at the floor they him and they ha and they say, I don't know. I don't want to say anything and this is in the privacy of a therapist office was well, they know that I'm not going to squeal on them or whatever and that I'm not going to laugh at him. But but they have a great difficulty there. Well, I think that sometimes with young people that we really have to tell them that weight. You have to start telling yourself that the that you are capable you have to start to acknowledge those things and there's some specific skills that I think are important in teaching self esteem that can be taught how to how to try to improve your self-esteem. In the meantime when he's 18 years old. We're still must continue in very subtle and sophisticated ways to acknowledge that Young Person's strengths we don't want to make them have to fight it but we must not give up acknowledging it if they haven't made it in school. I don't know schools. The only place that we get a report card. So if your academically not having a good time or suffering from any kind of academic problems or just don't like it the one area in your life that you're not succeeding is that one that you're getting a report card, we have to go now and ritual be back here Ray McGee of the Washburn Child Guidance Center. Thanks very much for being with us this morning and I hope you can come back again sometime soon. I also want to thank listeners who called in questions and and hope that when Ray comes back again next time that those who didn't have a chance to ask a question. We'll get through also want to thank Mike Solomon sun' and Linda Marie engineer's for this morning and Tom ears man who handled the phone calls next week on Spectrum. Dr. Urie bronfenbrenner of Cornell University talks about the American family. We have just a brief moment to take a look at the weather forecast for the Twin Cities partly cloudy through Sunday with a chance of a few scattered showers this morning possibility of a thunderstorm this afternoon highs today will range in the upper 60s to the low 70s the Louis tonight mid to upper 40s highs tomorrow in the upper 60s to low 70s. This is MPR a listener-supported service.