(00:00:00) About 50,000 Minnesota households receive Food Stamp assistance and the provisions of the Food Stamp Act of 1977 began affecting their lives. Last December. Some changes went into effect in December and January but a larger overhaul of the whole system began yesterday, March 1st joining us on midday today to discuss the new regulations and their effects on minnesotans are Mary Kennedy Outreach director for the food stamp program of Minnesota's Public Department of Department of Public Welfare and Barb boil a food and nutrition advocate for the Northwest Hennepin Human Services Council, welcome to both of you to mid-day Barb. I'm curious about how the new regulations are going to be affecting minnesotans. But first, I want to ask Mary some specifics about the law itself. Is this really a as it has been described a major change a major overhaul of the system or is it simply a few changes that have been made in the (00:00:54) law in effect the law of 1977 changes the food stamp program? Adequately, it's almost a new food stamp program. It's a good way to look at it. (00:01:04) What are some of the characteristics that make it different from the previous (00:01:08) system the change that started in December was that people no longer have to pay money to receive their food stamps in the past people had to buy into a package of food stamps for their family size and they paid a different amount depending on their income and their resources. Now people just get the bonus stamps or the amount of stamps. That's a supplement to their income. So people are getting all different amounts of stamps based both on family size and on income and it's not their entire food budget. It's just the (00:01:44) supplement has it been very much of a difficulty for people adjusting to the new system as it was before they paid a certain amount of cash to receive the coupons and now they simply receive the coupons and I imagine that in the past people used As sort of a budgeting device and now with changes are have you been getting calls are people complaining that it's difficult to adjust to the new system. (00:02:07) We haven't gotten too many calls about budgeting problems as a result of the change. There's two sides to it there in the past. There were people who met the income requirements who were not able to come up with the cash to get through food stamps. Apparently not all those people are participating in food stamps. For example, it looks like in Hennepin County alone applications increased 5,000 and December were just getting the figures in but it does look like more people are using food stamps because of the change, of course, there are some people who would have the budgeting problems, but I think it's all weighed by The increased participation. (00:02:45) How about you Barbara? Are you is your office getting some complaints or any information about how the new systems working with instead of paying the cash just being able to pick up the coupons. (00:02:56) Well, we did understand that the Hennepin County Food Shelf system during the month of December did receive a large amount of new food donations as well as several hundred new requests for assistance. But basically the understanding that we've had is that most people have adjusted quite easily. And in fact more people are using the program because they don't have to outlay the cash at the beginning of the (00:03:23) month was what was really the reason for may be either of you could answer this question. What was the reason for changing it from the old (00:03:30) system there were two reasons one was the fact that there were people who met all the standards who applied who are certified for food stamps and they never got their food stamps because of the cash outlay problem. They just didn't have the money to get them. But there is also a factor of administration involved is very expensive for counties to be handling money in exchange for food stamps every month. So it's cuts. Someone the administrative cost just in handling food (00:04:00) stamps was that some of the cause the handling of the money was at some of the cause of the fraud that was associated with the with the program some time (00:04:09) ago. In other states. Apparently they did have problems with private vendors who acted as the issuing agent for the food stamps somehow coming up short with food stamps and cash. And so that was a serious money problem in the food stamp program was the handling stamps. There's another service factor that were just starting to get into that has helped by not having the cash purchase requirement. And that's that some counties especially outside the Twin Cities areas. It will be easier for them to mail out food stamps to their food stamp clients. (00:04:51) On a little more general question before we get to some some of the specifics that went into effect. Just yesterday our are people still do they feel a stigma attached to food stamps? There was some criticism of the food stamp program from it's very beginning that there was a large section of the population who were poor who would be eligible for food stamps, but who wouldn't participate in such a program simply because of Pride or any number of reasons. Do you have any information about or perceptions about how people view food stamps today? The recipients themselves (00:05:29) there is a lot of difference in how that is felt among recipients depending on where they live and what age they are what we've found in suburban and Rural Hennepin County is that there are many elderly people who have a great amount of pride and who have never been brought up with the concept of food being a right. At that food stamps are some kind of hand out and that that is something that they don't want to participate in for that reason. Also, I know that Minnesota recipients Alliance receives many calls from the rural areas of the state where people are treated very unfairly or onion humanely. If you will by people in the grocery stores, when they go to shop with food stamps at their look down upon that people make nasty comments. There is a great deal of public disfavor for food stamp people around the state not only in the rural areas, but you find that in the city to so that are that type of attitude is quite pervasive and so it's difficult for people to go and pay for their food with food stamps without feeling that everybody is somehow looking over their shoulder, you know, kind of branding them as one of those food stamp recipients. Mmm. There is a food stamps has the benefit of being a Department of Agriculture program. We do get calls from people who are unwilling to apply for other kinds of Public Assistance, even though they qualify for those other forms of assistance, but who will use food stamps because it is a Department of Agriculture program and they realized that it does have the factor of in effect increasing the amount of food that's sold in helping the farmers in that way. And also of course helping the Grocer's in food retailers food stamps are the only thing only form of assistance that when you use it, you're identified as using that form of assistance. If you apply for an afdc Grant you have to go to the you know County welfare department and make an application and get a check and that check when you're cashing it at the bank. Maybe the bank teller notices, but once you've got your money, nobody can tell where you got your money whereas food stamps. There is a problem of When you're in the grocery store and people do sometimes notice what food stamp clients are buying now. There was a study done recently that showed that actually food stamp Shoppers made wiser decisions on how to spend their food dollar than the general public that they were buying more staple items and fruit and vegetables and things like that as opposed to snack food. We do get a couple complaints a week about comments from the public on how they think people should use their food (00:08:18) stamps since we're on this topic. I understand that as of January first, there were some new restrictions on what food stamps will be buying right now. Could you kind of give us a summary of what food stamps can buy and what they can't buy (00:08:33) the only change in January is that people can no longer buy hot food products that are ready to eat an example would be like hi barbecued chicken that's already cooked and is hot in the grocery store can all Could be bought with food stamps any other form of food, even like the coleslaw that comes from the same Delicatessen that sells the hot chicken can be bought. Otherwise people can buy any food items. Sometimes people who are applying for food stamps have problems not understanding why they can't get an allowance for like the paper products and soap and other things that we think of as things you buy at the grocery store but its food items for humans. So it wouldn't include dog food or cat food or anything like that. So people do have to separate in the grocery stores unless in some of the grocery stores. They now have cash registers that separate the items by number people have to separate the items into the food items in the non-food items. The other thing that happened in January as food stamps Shoppers can now get actual coins in change for amounts less than a dollar and the past. Getting credits lips (00:09:46) and those credits lips were just good at one particular (00:09:49) store one particular store chain of stores so that people often didn't cash them in because you shop in different stores and you lose pieces of paper. So now they at least get for each for change coming to them of under $1 get the actual change and then the rest of their changes in one dollar food stamps (00:10:09) another question before we leave this area completely on the eligibility are there. Is it really a problem are there Mass numbers of people who qualify or who would qualify for food stamps? But either as we were talking about because of Pride or because of other reasons will not or cannot or eventually do not accept them. Do you have any idea do we have any percentages of figures of people who would be eligible who do not accept or receive Food Stamps (00:10:40) recently the community nutrition Institute published a set of Figures that show that only approximately now this is an approximate figure only about 33% of minnesotans who would probably be eligible for food stamps use the program. That's a very low use utilization rate. Most states have much higher utilization rate. But one reason for that might be that Minnesota has generally better Public Assistance programs of other Nature's so many of the people who are for example on afdc might be eligible for food stamps, but only receive a bonus of $10 a month or a very small amount so that it's almost not worth their time to go to the food stamp office, but Minnesota has a relatively very low utilization rate. It's one of the things of course that I have to be concerned about because that's my job. I haven't had it long enough to get beyond the new program in the work involved with the new program. I noticed that all the states that had low utilization. Rates were Farm stains. And so I'm starting I would like to look at some data is is it because in Minnesota people also have more resources in savings and things like that. That would make them ineligible. If you only look at income there are people with low income who have other resources from what they've saved up through their lives. The other Factor may be just like Barbara said with the higher Public Assistance grants there for a low food stamp supplement. There's also the factoring that wages have traditionally been higher in Minnesota. So that pensions in and Social Security benefits are probably higher in Minnesota. So again the food stamp become less significant to people (00:12:33) as far as the new regulations which went into effect yesterday regarding eligibility and determination of an individual's income or household income in their consequences. Eligibility for food stamps. What are some of the major characteristics that make that a change as I understand that everybody who now receives food stamps and everybody who applies for food stamps are going to have their cases reviewed and new information new food stamp allocations eventually by I guess June 30th will go into effect. (00:13:08) What they've done in the new program is changed the income limits down to the poverty level in the past the secretary of agriculture set income limits and now they're set at the poverty level. These limits are lower for every household size of more than 2 and was the case, you know up until March 1st, they apply to all public assistance households or supplemental security income households in the past people who for example, received afdc or automatically eligible for food stamps, even if they were working and their income got higher than the normal food-stamp budget or income limit for that size of family. They're also going to be using a different method of deductions from income allow deductions from and come to figure out before you even get to the food stamp. Net income and that will hurt some people and possibly help some other people (00:14:07) Barb do you have Some information or some idea of the types of people that are going to be adversely affected by the lowering of the income level (00:14:16) some of the people who will probably be affected adversely in that way will be especially the working single parent persons who are on afdc and who are working who are trying to get off public assistance and these people in effect are going to be punished for working because they have a slightly higher income and therefore they will no longer be eligible for food stamps and some of the people who also were among the higher income eligible people as Mary pointed out will now no longer be eligible or their food-stamp allotment may be slightly reduced and this is especially unfortunate right now when food costs are spiraling and when inflation is eating away at everybody's everybody's costs, especially basic costs people who pay high rent. Will be adversely affected people who have high childcare costs people who have high medical bills or work expenses. There's a different a completely different type of deduction system and there will be standard deductions instead of people bringing in their particular expenses for all these things. So if your medical bills are more than $65 a month, it won't help you anymore to become eligible. There's only a standard deduction for these kinds of expenses. So that might affect elderly people for example, why don't we go through the deductions and then talk about that because it is different. What dude going to do is replace the numerous deductions that were in effect in the past with a standard deduction of $65. Everybody who applies will have $65 of their income not count per month per month per family. So one person gets $65 deduction and ten people get the $65 deduction. That replaces the old deductions for medical bills for child support or alimony that somebody paid to another household for personal disasters, like fires burial expenses tuition that was paid out of wages as opposed to out of scholarships then an earned income deduction instead of taking actual what is deducted from your check a standard 20 percent of all earnings. So this will this applies throughout the country and Minnesota where there's higher income to the state income tax minnesotans will be affected more people who do belong to like labor unions. They used to get the union dues taken off. Now that's included in the 20% people used to get up to $30 a month work expenses that's included in the 20% Social Security everything that comes out of your check is part of that 20% for some people that will More than they got before then they go to the third deduction, which if people meet certain standards, they can take an additional deduction. What they've done is tied childcare in with a deduction for having high housing costs and in effect, they have like a pool of $80, which is the most that any household can get as a deduction and they look at first at our their expenses for child care or the care of sand disabled adults so that someone else can work and then the person gets up to $80 a month deduction for that child care, which doesn't cover child care expenses in this state. Well, most people pay what 180-200 at least usually at least twice that then they've tied it in with the high housing costs deduction in the past people got a deduction if their housing costs exceeded 30 percent of their net income now, it's if It exceeds fifty percent of their income after the first two deductions, but if they've already used that $80 to account for child care expenses, they don't get anything for high housing costs. No matter what their housing costs maybe and there's a ceiling of $80 on the housing cost and that's not very high. For example, if you want a FTC with one child after you figure starting from the three hundred dollar Grant down if that person's housing costs and that includes their utilities in the winter goes above 197 a month, which isn't that much in today's housing market, they start to lose under this new system. (00:18:50) It almost sounds like the single parent single working parent is going to be most adversely affected by by some of the changes, (00:19:00) you know sense in many of them. However only got like the minimum bonus a month in terms of real dollars. Per month per household. I think probably some of the people that are really going to notice it are some of the Working Families with 456 kids who have a lot of medical expenses. (00:19:19) Those are the people who are marginal as far as just needing some extra (00:19:23) food store normal income is not adequate to meet their bills or it's hard for them on their normal income to get by and they're working and they you know, if they're young families, they might have bought houses recently over there renting and it's hard to round when you have kids. Now. Those are the people who probably will notice a larger. Drop more dollars per month loss though. There's less of those people than there are they like the FTC mother who (00:19:50) works but there are definitely will be sort of a top layer of people as far as their income that are going to be definitely cut off from Food Stamps between now and March and June 30th are all these people going to be re-interviewed or what's the process by which the people are going to be to find out about their new status how much they're going to be able to (00:20:12) receive a beginning yesterday anyone who applied for food stamps new new applicant was judged by the new rules people who are using food stamps already will be changed at their normal recertification date or before the end of June whichever one comes first. So if they're normally we're going up to be recertified in May it will take effect for them and make if they've been certified say a senior citizen who could be certified for up to a year or someone on public assistance Force. Six months they will be changed by a desk review at the county and they will get a notice as to it will be based on facts in the case. Now, they don't have to come in for another interview and then they'll get a noticing this is how we calculated your food stamps based on the new rules. Most people will see the change start in April because the County's couldn't do any work on the new program in February. So most people from March are getting based on the old program. Whereas in April is when people will notice (00:21:16) one thing I did notice to as far as nationally even though there are going to be some people who are no longer going to be eligible for food stamps under the new law the cost of the food stamps is going up a bit. It's not a decrease in the federal federal amount of money that's required. Is that simply because food prices are going up. That the budget is that less people getting food (00:21:40) stamps are still prices going up and their prediction that more people will be, you know, (00:21:46) eligible for some of the lowest some of the people who have the lowest incomes who didn't want her who didn't for some reason take advantage of food stamps before (00:21:56) they are there is a ceiling put on the total amount of money that can be used for food stamps. Maybe Barbara wants to talk about this but there is a problem coming up with that right in committee right now in the agricultural committee and Senator Bosch, which is on that committee, they're discussing that cap. They're attempting to limit the amount of food stamp spending to a certain amount and I don't have the exact dollar figures. But what that'll mean is that every single eligible person will be cut accordingly regardless of the of the current standards. They will have to be cut accordingly just to meet this budget limitation. So what we're trying to do is urge people to talk to Senator boschwitz or To President Carter directly and say no food prices are going up and people's wages aren't going up commensurately people should be allowed to get their full amount of food stamps and not be cut by an arbitrary budget cut particularly when budget spending for other items that aren't really that needed is going up all the time. So we think it's real important that this committee and I believe they're meeting today on that that they do not allow this cap to to go on. So if it took place it would mean several million dollars less coming into the Minnesota economy just by changing the food-stamp allotment for each eligible person and that'll hurt farmers in the long (00:23:21) run. Another thing. We should should mention before we conclude here is that there is a hotline through the Department of Public Welfare that is available for anybody who has questions about the food stamp program and the changes that have gone into effect that number for Twin Cities residents. Is 2 9 6 0190029601900 and there's also a toll-free number for people outside the metropolitan area. That's one eight hundred six hundred fifty-two 97471 800 600 to 900 747 want to thank both of you for coming talking about food stamps today Barbara boil food and nutrition advocate of Northwest Hennepin Human Services Council and Mary Kennedy food stamp Outreach director for Minnesota's Department of Public Welfare. I'm Tommy Richmond.