(00:00:00) Isabel Cattails, have you ever eaten cat tails before? No, (00:00:03) but we have a guy on the staff over the st. Paul campus in the department of horticulture. I guess I have eaten cat tails because this Bob Mullen makes Cattail pancakes can't tell pancake. Yes. Yes, and he's a quite an authority. As a matter of fact on the use of all kinds of wild ingredients to make food products and he puts an absolutely marvelous (00:00:23) show. We should have them in sometimes. (00:00:25) Yeah. It's very entertaining individual. We're (00:00:29) talking of course with Isabel wolf extension nutrition specialist from the University of Minnesota on the st. Paul campus and in a moment, we're going to talk about good sources of nutrition information how to decipher nutrition information, but we try to invite Isabel to join us about once every month and we like to open our discussion with some news items of a seasonal nature or news items of an important nature. And of course is about word a period of time when there are a lot of hunters in the field coming home with game that they had like to prepare for the dinner table. What tips do you have on game preparation? (00:00:59) Well, I think the first tip I'd have should take place before the hunters is evil it even leave the house. They should realize how to deal with these carcasses out in the field and there is some information available in the bulletin room at the University. I wouldn't know specifically the numbers of publication but at least they should give some thought to getting the thing gutted rather rapidly and keeping it as cool as possible. We hear all these tales about, you know, these wonderful dears that have brought home a left resting on the top of a pickup outside some Saloon not that I'm opposed to salute for 12 hours in the Sun and then the flavor of this meat is somewhat questionable when it gets to the cooking pot. We do have one very serious area of concern this relates to the preparation of venison sausage. Lots of parts of the deer throughout. The state is made by various people into venison sausage and a lot of people like to smoke this sausage and have some very elaborate. Contrivances in which they smoke it and what myself and particularly we have a relatively new extension veterinarian at the University. He is extremely concerned about possible trichinosis from this now we have with the trichinosis come from well in making venison sausage people generally combine the venison with pork and then they smoke it in the usual smoking takes place at a temperature of about a hundred and ten degrees Fahrenheit, which is inadequate to destroy the trick. I Nee larvae. Okay, and frequently the venison sausage is given away to people who may think it's been cooked. So you should take it up to a hundred and forty-two degrees Fahrenheit, which is adequate to destroy the law of of the turkana, but even better up to a hundred and seventy and then there's no worry about it. And we really we actually had a some mistaken temperatures in some old University Publications that were out and I guess, you know, we're trying to recall those Applications and make sure that people smoke this to a high enough internal temperature. (00:03:06) So Hunters besides keeping track of no trespassing signs watch out for food preparation as well. (00:03:11) And anybody with any birds make sure you clean those birds immediately because any of I just talking to a lady up in northern Minnesota yesterday and her husband had shot. Some wild geese. I don't know what they were even in season now Mike Allen, it doesn't include knowledge of the hunting Davidians, but at any rate her husband the fail to clean up clean the goes to got it and two days later. I got around to doing this and of course the meat was (00:03:35) inedible. I remember an experience like that from my childhood, but that's another story. All right nutrition information. How good is the information we are getting these days. Where does the information come from? I remember Isabel growing up. My mother was the sole source of my nutrition information and before her of course or her mother and father and we seem to do. All right, most of the members of my generation have survived on the nutrition information. And we got in from our parents and from our high school health classes. I am wondering first of all in a general way. What is the level of nutrition information among people in this country? Do you find that people are pretty well informed on nutritional matters. (00:04:14) Well, I haven't unfortunately back in my office the results of a comprehensive survey actually the surveys that was prepared to answer this question. But in general we do have a high level of nutrition knowledge today among the population. However, the knowledge doesn't necessarily correlate with practice of people. In fact, they have been some fairly sophisticated studies done with high school students who have been subjected to various types of nutritional education programs. And while they may know what they should eat to be relatively well nourished. They don't practice what they know. (00:04:52) I know the label is used by many people as one of the souls sources of perhaps these sole source of nutrition information. Let's talk about For a moment how much can the label on a food product tell (00:05:02) us? Well, it can tell you an awful lot depending upon what the product is Stan. First of all you should look at the product if say you're buying some sort of a processed food product, you know kill something in a can or in a package. The first thing you should look for is to see if there is a statement of ingredients on the package. Now you will find this on foods for which there is not a standard of identity. So in other words not all products are going to have information on the label. Now when you start reading this list of ingredients and the ingredient contents are listed by decreasing predominance by weight of a lot of soup labels, for example, you would find water is the first ingredient now some people think this is shocking but I mean if you made soup at home you would also have water as the first ingredient now some of these labels are relatively simple to read some of them. Somewhat more difficult because you will find for example on some of you are food products to which there are nutrients added fairly complex chemical names which would be the names of the nutrients also certain at the additives on have to be identified and sometimes these names are somewhat complex for that for the consumer to decipher and the all-time if anybody's listening there who's going to the supermarket if you're there and just want to look at the all-time complex label go and look at some of these new Frozen Yogurt pies the manufacture of which we will not identify but you will find something that absolutely defies comprehension. It is so difficult to (00:06:41) understand so labels may or may not be useful in telling us what is good to eat. A (00:06:45) lot of these these nutritional Visa labeling hearings that have been held around the country by the Food and Drug Administration. One of the more resounding themes that has come out is that the information on the label is very difficult to comprehend now. And other kinds of information I want to mention too is the nutritional labeling and there are some food products that carry nutritional labeling if there are any nutrients added to the food if there are any claims made for the nutritional value of the food you have to provide nutritional labeling (00:07:18) on some labels is about we will see various. We will see a names of ingredients that appear to be similar a couple of forms of sodium. I may be wrong on (00:07:29) that but not on sodium so much but the just getting back to the the road the frozen yogurt Pat pies, we found what I would categorize as sugars nine different forms, which is really kind of interesting that's amazing and about they were three or four different stabilizers and thickeners added and I guess when you read some of the know it doesn't terrify me, I wouldn't be afraid to eat the product. I might not buy it because it's kind of expensive but I can And how a consumer would really become alarmed about the composition of some processed food products after really evaluating a label like that. (00:08:08) No can can people who watch labels tell whether or not they should eat a food product. For example, we talked momentarily about sodium if we see sodium listed on the label as part of the ingredients, what should that tell us? (00:08:23) Well, of course, it would be pretty hard to determine how much sodium was in the product just as a result of its being listed in the ingredients statement. Let me say another thing. No one one thing that you can look for. If you are on a sodium restricted diet, there are some food products that would do carry sodium content in the nutritional labeling. Also, if you see that the product has MSG or monosodium glutamate in addition to regular sodium chloride assault you might say that that would be a product that would probably have a higher sodium content and I I would like to bring up the fact that there is some move now among consumer groups to develop a kind of easily identifiable sign that would be on food products that are high in sodium and I would say that there are obvious some controversy as to whether or not we need this little warning thing on the front of the label that even though the salt Institute realizes that we need to have more comprehensive assault ingredient information or or it should definitely be a part of the nutritional labeling on products. There are some consumers consumer groups who feel that we should have nutritional labeling on all food products. (00:09:43) We learned in math class Isabel how deceptive percentages and listings of percentages can be in a moment. I want to ask you a question about that as it relates to hot dogs, but first, we'll give out some phone numbers because I'll bet listeners have some questions that they're waiting to ask of you and in the Twin Cities area, you can call Isabel. Ask your question at two to one 1500 make that 221 1550 that's to to 11550 in the Twin Cities area. And if you're living outside the Twin Cities, but with in Minnesota, you can call us free. We have a toll-free number. That number is 806 589-4030 865 to 9700. And once again in the Twin Cities 221 1552 to 11550 will we have a couple of questions on the line already, but we'll pose just this question quickly as a bell on percentages. We will note for example that in Hot Dogs apparently a lot of the ingredients are what shall we call it fat? And or I should say most most of a hot dog is composed of fat is that accurate? Well, (00:10:48) probably more water than that, but one thing about about hot dogs and about a lot of meat products is that the USDA has standards of composition. And a lot of consumers are in the public are not aware of these standards of composition for processed meat products. And for example, these regulations spell out the fact that one can have 30% fat in a hot dog. Now that's pretty significant for several reasons. First of all, you generally cannot see it because it's emulsified into the product and I can remember the old times that of hot dogs when I was a kid, you know, the fat would cook out of them. Well, this valve is emulsified in such a manner that it doesn't come out but the point being that many of the of the hot dog manufacturers do have nutritional labeling on the product so you can see how much fat in terms of grams is in a hotdog and also you'll discover that the majority of the calories that you get in this product comes not from the protein, but from the fat and for a long time the USDA and the university has been putting out information pointing out to people that as a source of meat hot dog Are pretty expensive item in terms of the protein that you get I remember hearing that. (00:12:04) All right, we have callers waiting to ask a questions of Isabel and you can slip your headphones on there and we'll be able to hear the first caller. So go ahead Isabel wolf is listening to your question now. Hello. I'm wondering why on ice cream packages that there is never any compositional information or nutritional information or any of the constituents that make up the ice cream (00:12:31) good. This is really a good question because when we were talking about labeling we said that there were certain categories of products that don't have ingredient information and these are ones for which there are formulas and recipes called Federal standards of identity and the manufacturer as long as they adhere to the federal standard of identity can call the product ice cream and does not have to print an ingredient statement on the package. Now FDA has been urging food manufacturers to put ingredient information on products, even though they are ones for which there are standards of identity and there has been a lot of controversy over whether or not we should even continue to have these standards of identity because it's very difficult for consumers to determine specifically what ingredients are in a product and this becomes a very important problem for people who suffer from various types of food allergies really need more information on the content specific content (00:13:34) of the foods. And is it true that more and more Isabel. We are seeing ice cream becoming an artificial product or I should say not based so much on milk and cream anymore. Well, let's (00:13:43) say let's put it this way Dan that it certainly is not the kind of product that was perhaps viewed as ice cream 40 years ago. You have more whipping AIDS you have more types of ingredients that they never had down at. Mr. Olson's Ice Cream Store. (00:13:59) Right if such a 46 it's probably in my family. We have other callers waiting and we'll get to the next one. Go ahead Isabella's listening to your (00:14:07) question. Good morning. I had a question about some nutritional information that was published in last night star in a column on vitamin B12. It was by doctors on is a very well-known. Oh, yes. Okay. (00:14:21) Yeah, that's right, (00:14:44) and I guess I'd like to go back and look it up and perhaps you could give us a call tomorrow. Give me a call tomorrow morning at my office and I'll check it. Usually these are certainly people who are reliable source of nutrition information. (00:14:59) I'm ready. (00:15:00) But then again there are always typos that can develop and again, I they are people who are generally very reliable sources of information. All right, I will call you then. Okay, (00:15:10) that's a good point is about we don't want to advertise it too much because you'll be overwhelmed with the mail. You will take questions at your office on the st. Paul campus of the University. We have other callers waiting and we'll take the next one. Go ahead Isabella's listening to your question. (00:15:26) Hi. I wanted to know where I could find out some information on preservative something that would tell which ones have been proven to be bad for you which ones have been proven to be good, which one's haven't been proven one way or the other. Well, I guess the best thing I could send you out some information a woman's head meets me go. Marry Backtrack on this no matter where you live in the state. Okay you have in your account in your county a County extension office and there has been a very good publication written on food Attitudes by dr. Vern. Record who is a member of my department the department of Food Science in nutrition and I would suggest that you call the County extension office and ask them to send you a copy of this publication or if you're in the Twin Cities called the either the Ramsey County Hennepin County are you can even call the st. Paul campus bulletin room and ask for dr. Packard's publication on food additives and you find this helpful. And if you if you don't get the answers you want in there. You can call me at my office. (00:16:29) There are really isabelo tremendous number of sources of conjecture on this particular subject the safety of food preservative. I know for example the Center for Science in the public interest in Washington DC has published. I think it is an entire book on the subject of the eaters evidence (00:16:44) leaders digest. Yes. Yes, Michael has published a book on that and you know, it's really kind of interesting because the public I don't I hope the you out there listen to this carefully because one of the biggest sales pitches that food companies are making to the public today. Is that whatever the product is is additive free and preservative free and in some cases, I would certainly rather go along with the preservatives. Now, this is particularly in the case of those that will mold Inhibitors. They have been given a grass clearance. They have been affirmed as safe for use in the manner in which they are used today. More of these compounds could be used without creating any public health hazard and I am much more concerned about the potential of the products that can be formed by mold that grows on bread. You can have some aflatoxins produced there was some research done in Florida which indicates that in five or six days these these aflatoxins can migrate into the interior of the loaf of bread. You don't see them. These are compounds that are very potent carcinogens and I think that you know, I like the natural breads that many of the Bakers are preparing today, but I wish they would put mold Inhibitors in them because then the bread would be (00:17:53) safer. All right, we have other callers waiting. We'll take the next one. Good afternoon. Isabel is listening. Hi. To off after searching the scientific literature for over a year. I've been unable to come up with a sound reason for including meat in my diet protein and all the other nutrients including B12 can be obtained more cheaply and safely from non-meat sources in light of this. Can you explain to me why nutrition is still exposed meat containing diets? (00:18:19) Well, I guess maybe you haven't seen some information. That was put out by I think was the American dietetic Association. There was an article that was published a couple of years ago that says that with proper planning and careful planning idiots. It is perfectly perfectly safe to to go on a non meat diet, assuming that you include eggs and milk and your diet the types of vegetarian diets that can be really harmful in the long run are the total veg. Anne's diet, which is simply vegetables fruits and cereal grains, but the ovo-lacto vegetarian diet is is certainly something that if this is your preference You can certainly with with a lot of knowledge and the right books. You can certainly come up with a well balanced (00:19:05) diet Isabel. That's a frequent charge and criticism against the dietetics profession or the discipline. You might say the dietitians consistently recommend eating meat but that's not my experience in talking with dietitians. That is not it's not as though they are taking money from the meat industry or the meat board in the country to recommend (00:19:25) that no and meet. You know, if it is one at an individual's choice not to to include me in their diet, you know, that's fine. However, I would say that it is meat is is a very good source of high quality protein of iron and iron deficiency. Anemia is something of a problem in this country. The iron from from red meat is more readily absorbed and there are certain other nutrients that we can find in meet in in a very concentrated. So it's plus the fact that we have a cultural tradition in this country of being a mediating society and many people Way more than they need and I think that this is something that the people could take a look at. (00:20:06) All right, we have other questioners waiting and we'll get to them as quickly as we can. We'll take the next one. Good afternoon. Isabel wolf is listening. Hello that mean yes you're on so I wanted to ask about the MSG the food flavoring. It's not really a flavor but it enhances the flavor of things and it's commercialized as accent. You mentioned that Evelyn did earlier in the program and because the word sodium is in the title of it modern so sodium glutamate. Hmm. Is that is that a salt (00:20:44) thing? Yeah. It's sodium salt of glutamic acid is really what it is. Aha and it's definitely a flavor enhancer or a glutamate is a natural constituent of some of them were flavorful foods like mushrooms. There are other compounds rather widely used as flavor enhances in Austin eights and guanylate. You'll probably see those on some of the examples. I was looking at a package of supposedly a homemade soup base yesterday and they these compounds are used to enhance especially sort of meaty flavor (00:21:19) overtones, but there is no salt in it. Is (00:21:22) that no, but there is a sodium ion in there which which will you know, add to the sodium pool in your (00:21:30) system, but it classifies as a salt in your body. (00:21:34) Yes, monosodium glutamate Well, we'd have to get into this big definition of what chemically is assault. Okay, and but the sodium from MSG contributes sodium to your to your body in the same way that the salt the sodium and sodium chloride does. (00:21:52) All right, we have other callers waiting will get to their questions right now. Good afternoon. Isabel wolf is listening. Hello. I have a double. Our own question in the lady can give me a very happy. She will give me very brief comments on each portion. What does the lady think of the reliability of magazines which print exclusively nutrition information. There's one published in Pennsylvania second part of the question is how reliable are the companies of vitamin companies that advertise in this magazine. (00:22:37) Well, I can give you a very brief answer most unreliable. Why do you say that? Well, first of all, I've got you're talking. I know the very magazine you're discussing and I guess I would refer you to a very interesting article that was written about this magazine in Wall Street Journal all about a year ago. We are a very eminent well-known nationally known. Trishna stuff. Dr. Victor Herbert from Columbia Medical School was quoted as saying right in the Wall Street Journal. I guess I can quote him since he said it and it's in print. He's also a lawyer that this particular magazine is the major source of nutrition misinformation in the United States that magazine if you look at the content of the listings of the Articles, it's like a vitamin E comes restless legs vitamin B can cure the incurable and the Avid the sales potential for the advertisers and that magazine is absolutely incredible. In fact, I believe the households that subscribe to that magazine spend an average of two hundred and nine dollars per year on vitamin supplements there. There is in my opinion an incredible amount of money Wasted by the public in this country on unnecessary vitamin supplements most of the basic nutrition. Search that is done would indicate that if you consume a well-balanced diet and it's not that difficult to do that. You do not need these compounds and you are often told that they are going to cure this condition cure that condition the people who write these articles are not University trained nutritionist is simply journalist. I guess I could go on for 20 minutes, but you just wanted a short answer and I would say that the ads unreliable and also the content of the articles is unreliable. (00:24:29) All right, we're talking to Isabel wolf who is an extension nutrition specialist from the University of Minnesota the st. Paul campus. We have a caller waiting with another question. Good afternoon. You're on the air. (00:24:39) Hi is it not true that the chemical composition of white refined sugar is pretty similar to honey and one is not better for you than the other. Okay, honey, and sugar are essentially the same type of problem one is one is sucrose and the other is essentially fructose. They are both simply sugars. Honey does have very small and I mean really small amounts of certain vitamins. They're they're they're able to be detected but they're they're in such small amounts that they cannot be be quantitatively measured a lot of people think that sugar is better for them than honey that somehow it isn't a sugar I certainly taste a lot better than white sugar. But in reality from a nutritional point of view, they are essentially equivalent substances. (00:25:33) All right Isabel do we have a couple of dress addresses? We mentioned the bulletin room early on in this discussion and I do not have the bulletin room address handy for the st. Paul campus. I know it's in the basement. I (00:25:44) think it's 10 coffee Hall bulletin room 10 coffee Hall University of Minnesota. Paul (00:25:51) 5510800490808. Okay, that's 10 coffee Hall the bulletin room 10 coffee Hall in st. Paul at the (00:26:00) University course for those out State people realize you've got an office in every county that does have have bulletins available or can get them for you. (00:26:07) Right and in the metropolitan area as well and we mentioned a number of Publications. I'll refer back to just one you mentioned a publication by dr. Vern Packard on food additives, right and that is one publication available through the bulletin room. Thanks for joining us. This was pleasant again, and we answered some questions of listeners. We hope to have you back in about a month's time or so when we can talk again about some nutrition issues Isabel wolf extension nutrition specialist from the University of Minnesota.