(00:00:09) Is television a dominant factor in your life now? You probably answer you rarely watch it. Okay count up the number of hours a week you watch television news counts. So does Bugs Bunny and The Tonight Show have a rough idea. Now, if you're a college graduate multiply the number of hours you watch television by 1.5. And if you have a graduate degree multiply your number times to the reason is simple studies. Tell us most people are hypocrites when it comes to television habits, the more education. They have the lower regard they have for television but their viewing habits are just as high as those with less education. So the more education you have the more likely you are to underestimate the number of hours. You spend watching TV still think television doesn't affect your life. TV trivia Buffs what part did Robert franzine plane Leave it to Beaver about James Robin Bonanza, Dan Swardson General Hospital and finally what part did Stanley Hubbard play in The Mickey Mouse Club? Time's up. The answers are no Robert franzine was not Eddie Haskell James. Rob was not Haas Cartwright's horse. Dance warts did not play the part of the Thrice divorced overweight dietitian in general hospital and Stanley Hubbard was not an F Funicello, but these men are involved in these programs for they are the general managers of the Twin Cities for commercial television stations, and they are the ones who have the final say as to whether Leave it to Beaver or general hospital or Bonanza will be shown on Twin Cities television. It is these men and not the network people in New York who ultimately decide what programs we will see in our televisions if they don't want to see Charlie's Angels or the Mickey Mouse club or the NBC Nightly News. All they have to do is pull the plug it is as simple as that. So who are these men and how did they get so much power wcco's James R up the least senior of the general managers wears two hats besides acting General manager Rob has also the Chief Operating Officer of Midwest radio and television the parent company of WCCO television. He got his start in broadcasting 20 years ago with educational television, then in 1976 after stops at an audience research organization and Cox broadcasting in Atlanta. He came to WCCO dance warts of KMSP Channel 9 also functions in a dual capacity besides being general manager. He is also president of United television Incorporated which owns Channel 9 and is a subsidiary of 20th Century Fox Swartz is a local boy. He started out in the motion picture business and then switched over to television in the early 1950s. Robert Franzen general manager for WTC n Channel 11 is done a little bit of everything in broadcasting first. It was radio news later. He became an announcer then an editor producer director and sales manager in 15 years ago when time life sold the station to Chris Kraft, he became general manager. Finally. There is KSTP channel 5 Stanley Hubbard. Hubbard says he grew up in broadcasting the way some kids grow up on the farm and how did he get to be general manager of KSTP? There are a couple of reasons Hubbard says first hard work and secondly his family owns the station. Here are some interesting statistics concerning the general managers three out of four. Either have Darkly tinted office windows or else keep the shades tightly drawn to blot out the sunlight that surprised me for doesn't one struggle / and stabbed up the corporate ladder just to get a window in the first place. Another interesting statistic is two of the four general managers had television sets on in their offices. Good grief didn't their mothers ever. Tell them to turn off the television when doing homework. Finally, it would be difficult to classify three of the four men as the type that shoots from the hip they seem to weigh each word carefully and strive to say the right thing but no one probably ever accused Stanley as Hubbard of shooting from the hip blazing away with a 45 millimeter cannon is perhaps more like (00:04:35) it when you want to the truth about the PTA. The PTA has been threatened and we have a responsible PTA here as compared to the National PTA. The PTA has been threatened by an organization called the PTO parent-teachers organization. The parent teachers organization is is local they are in each school. They have no National Organization. They have no they don't live you they don't do it and they have been cutting into the ptas membership at a tremendous rate and the PTA has themselves have published booklets. Why should people join the PTA and not the PTO because we're going to stop violence on television. It's politics my friend. That's what it is. The magazines and newspapers are out to get television where competitors and they don't treat us with the same honesty and fairness that we treat them with which we treat them. I hear people to get out of television news. They get fired for network and all of a sudden television news is no good because they're jealous. They're jealous because they because television is where it's at the cultures of the World Gym culture, you know, really where he tried on television. He couldn't cut it now television (00:05:37) is bad. These people are trying their luck at roulette. They have bout that when the wheel and ball stop. It is their number that will come up a winner. It is a game that definitely favors the house television is a lot like a roulette wheel for television Executives. Hope that when your house spins the wheel there station comes up a winner and for a given time slot if their number comes up more than anybody else's they win in television. The numbers are called ratings. They are produced not by luck but instead by companies such as AC Nielsen or Arbitron these companies estimate what share of the audience watches a program the program with the most votes in a given time slot wins and losers are gone quicker than you can say turkey (00:06:29) are broadcasting systems. Great. If somebody doesn't like a show it dies boom dead. Now, there are shot some shows that aren't designed for large audiences. The Henry will shortz designed for an audience of you know, people who are probably think of them think of themselves as more Lecture on you know in public television the same thing but it's a very very democratic system in a free Society of people don't like a show. It's like a lot of new shows an NBC are going to be gone very quickly because nobody wants to watch and what we call in the industry (00:06:59) turkeys, but John Carmen who writes a column on television for the Minneapolis Star sees it differently this argument that television generally is democratic is there's a hole in that If that were so then the only determination in programming is how many people would watch it? And that's not the case. That's why a program like Red Skelton or I think it may have happened with Jackie Gleason to those shows were taken off the air even though they still attracted large audiences. The reason was that advertisers didn't think the right people were watching. It advertisers thought that those shows attracted older audiences and everybody knows that the people Advertisers want attracted to television or younger people who spend a lot of money. So advertisers are really determining what is on TV the masses (00:08:03) aren't I think (00:08:08) I think not so blatantly as they used to but what is on television still depends upon (00:08:17) advertisers (00:08:21) should television always go for the lowest common denominator in order to attract the largest audience possible. Is there an alternative? Well, there is an alternative for (00:08:30) public television. I really I really can't speak for a commercial television ratings is not our main objective in public (00:08:38) television, William koban general manager of ktc a channel to (00:08:44) our primary objective really is to as to produce and and and telecast a schedule of of Excellence for a wide diversity of audiences to present a schedule which reaches a number of different kinds of audiences and which which serves as an alternative to commercial television, so I would have to say that yes, there is a different kind of Television which does not set numbers that is ratings as the ultimate (00:09:16) objective who is the public and public broadcasting public broadcasting kind of has the image of being elitist at times you have Masterpiece Theater (00:09:25) things like this. How does the blue collar worker feel about public television and public broadcasting is is for many different Publix and a great cross section of Public's the recent studies show that the the demographics are expanding considerably that is (00:09:47) the numbers of minority (00:09:49) viewers is increasing rapidly. The numbers of less educated less affluent viewers are (00:09:55) increasing (00:09:57) tremendously a program like people and causes which is an access program is not what one would call an elite program certainly. Children's programs are not Elite programs. The sports programs are not what I would call Elite programs. And I think that there is a range of programming on on public broadcasting for quite a wide diversity of audiences programs designed for women, for instance, which really only appear on public television. The protocol of the the children schedule is a very very broad based range of programming in terms of its appeal. So I really think that I really think that this you know, I think of a program like Monty Python's Flying Circus, which is certainly not an elitist program. I really think that that's kind of an Off the Mark (00:11:00) observation. How does the public broadcaster justify carrying Sports when commercial stations usually do this? (00:11:08) Well, I was as I said, we're interested in presenting programming for a very diverse audience of different kinds of Publix, and we know that there is a large public that for instance is interested in seeing the Stanley Cup playoffs, and we carry the Stanley Cups when nobody else would carry the playoffs. We were delighted to be able to carry the North American soccer league soccer bowl. And I think that I regard that as a public service when there is an audience of that size that is going unserved whose interest in these are going unserved. I think that that is a public service. (00:11:56) evil lurks in the hearts of men the shadow knows in the early days of radio. There was the shadow favor McGee and Molly and Gunsmoke. There was also chaos in those days broadcasters could use any frequency they wanted to and with everyone trying to be heard. No one could be heard. Finally after an attempt at self-regulation failed broadcasters turn to the government for help help came in the form of the radioactive 1927 the Act created a federal radio commission whose duties were to assign frequencies limit power and regulate the time radio stations could broadcast. The commission was also authorized to issue licenses to broadcasters. Now in order to get a license broadcasters had to promise to serve in the public interest convenience and necessity and were to broadcasters were competing for the same frequency. The deciding factor was which one would best serve the public interest convenience and necessity. (00:13:11) A fiery horse with the speed of light a cloud of dust and a hearty hiyo silver (00:13:18) like The Lone Ranger the federal radio commission eventually disappeared in a cloud of dust taking its place was the Federal Communications Commission, which was created by the Federal Communications Act of 1934. The Act was basically the same as the federal radio act of 1927. It did do away with the concept of zones and it increased the number of Commissioners from 527. But the article requiring broadcasters to act in the public interest convenience and necessity remained and applies to this day. There are over 1,000 television stations in the United States since the start of television in the late 1940s less than a dozen have lost their licenses. Does this mean that each station has truly been serving in the public interest convenience and necessity or does it mean that perhaps the FCC isn't doing enough regulating while Stanley Hubbard general manager of KSTP thinks there is too much regulation. (00:14:16) For example, if you're a broadcaster, you don't feel that you're a free citizen like other people do my sauce is the area of news you're talking it was or whatever for example last night. I saw Senator weicker on The Tomorrow Show I didn't agree with a lot of things he had to say and I'd like to write him a letter and tell him Senator wicker. I think you're full of baloney. I wouldn't dare do that as a broadcaster. Why not because I Senator workers in Washington, and I've got to look to Washington for my license. And very frankly and in broadcasters will deny this and those are denied are not telling you the truth. Every broadcaster has in the back of his mind if what I do or say isn't appreciated her isn't like by someone in the in Washington or at the Federal Communications Commission. It could hurt me it'll renewal time. I can maybe not get my license renewed and every single broadcast is aware of that and if they tell you they're not they're not telling the (00:15:03) truth. Well, you say they're not really a free citizen are they supposed to be the Hub look owns the airwaves they're using these are waves at the convenience of the (00:15:13) public. Well, the courts the courts have said that but I tell you something about that. What did you might want to consider? And I haven't heard too many can people consider it. You know, when I remember when television started Jeff you could not get people to build television stations. I remember a Federal Communications Commission Commissioners trying to talk my Dad into taking the risk and it was a tremendous risk to build a television station and you could have had a television licence in Minneapolis st. Paul for the price of a postage stamp. Now, here's what I'm asking you to consider the public Airwaves. This is we're not taking coal out of the ground. He putting a natural resource. We're not taking oil out of the ground and he's putting a natural resource. We're not cutting Timber. We're not destroying the environment the the Airways are something that were put there because people like Stanley Hubbard had the guts to risk everything they had to build a transmitter with her bare hands, which is what he did in the world Radio Days and to risk everything they had and put a signal there for people to listen to him. Somewhere along the line has been determined that that we really don't have any rights in the Airways Now by law. We don't but I'm not so sure that that's right that's proper. You know if Park Avenue New York of properties worth a lot of money. There's only one Park Avenue and you could say well those people shouldn't have any rights because you know, there's only so many miles of Park Avenue and that's true. There are only so many commercial frequencies available. But in 1947 where my family our family had a go into hock and had a do everything we could we had a radio station. We took a chance on losing that radio station when most radio broadcasters didn't have the stomach to to risk it. We put everything we had on the line and I remember we could only we couldn't afford a new bicycle or knows it was tough times when we couldn't borrow money and we finally found money in Pittsburgh and my dad took a tremendous risk, my dad my mother and putting Channel 5 on the air here and it could just as easily have gone belly up or so. I'm not so sure that I can. Subscribe a hundred percent to the theory that you know where the bad guys using the public Airwaves and a lot of people like Ralph Nader would have you believe that in this Nick Johnson who was an FCC commissioner? But it didn't work that way and they quickly forget those people that the risk that it took (00:17:36) the Minneapolis Stars John Carmen disagrees with Hubbard. He says It's Time We Leave Behind The Legends of broadcasters building transmitters with their bare hands. They've been using that argument for decades and it's true that some people around the country took a risk back in the late (00:17:57) 1940s and they put some Capital into (00:18:02) building television facilities. But are you know, how long are we going (00:18:06) to let them ride on (00:18:09) that James wrap of WCCO says he thinks the license renewal process is a fair (00:18:15) one, you know after all these are the public Airwaves and we're licensed to to serve the public. So I think there has to be a process, you know, I think any process can be improved and I suspect that this one will But you know, I guess as one broadcaster, I think it's it's basically a good process. I think the only the area of a probably some concern is the fact that if some particular group wants to put in a petition to deny it can be very expensive and it can be very very time-consuming and in many cases their reasons for doing this are are not meaningful there, you know for selfish selfish reasons and as we saw just harassment well to some extent harassment. I think the term I've heard in some parts of the country as economic blackmail fortunately in this part of the country. We haven't been faced with those kinds of considerations, but in other major cities there have been filings that basically have cost broadcasters several hundreds of thousands of dollars and they basically boil down to eat. Like blackmail (00:19:29) Robert Franzen of WTC n is concerned about the FCC encroaching on the broadcaster's (00:19:35) turf. I think there is a great danger. However in the FCC encroaching more and more on First Amendment rights and trying they would love it. I think I'm sure to tell them industry what the program and times and affect do by implication and they are now, you know, I'm sure that that type of thinking is what's going on with the FTC now that this your big brother knows better than anybody about what to do and what people should do and I think it's a very serious danger to broadcasting to everybody not just an industry but to the to the public at Large If we have their more pressure groups, I think now but everything, you know people call and threaten to go to the FCC and everything else if they don't like Merv Griffin or twin whatever it is, I mean difference they don't like it. They think somebody should change it or force it to be changed because suit their views it's like censorship and it's an easy road to go down he say that's right. This is bad for somebody, you know, this is might be better. We don't know if it's bad. We think it could be bad. So let's stop it and pretty soon you get everything encroached. I could be it's very dangerous. I (00:20:49) think in addition to local newscasts the for local commercial stations do carry programs designed to serve the community subjects covered include senior citizens politics and religion. Most of them are shown on Sunday morning when the number of viewers is at its lowest, but there are exceptions the award-winning more on Sunday a documentary type news program is shown early Sunday evening. Occasionally there is local election coverage and last month WCCO devoted 3 and 1/2 hours of prime time to a program called. Nobody ever asked me which said James Rupp was an effort towards ascertaining Community problems and establishing priorities, but the question is given their tremendous profits are the local commercial stations doing enough for the community. How much money does Channel 11 make (00:21:40) well again, that's a figure that I can't disclose. (00:21:44) How much does KSTP make in one year? (00:21:47) I won't tell you how much (00:21:48) money does WCCO television make in a year. (00:21:55) That information is not is not (00:21:58) published. How much money does KMSP make (00:22:01) here? Well that I can't reveal (00:22:03) that. The actual profits of each station is a closely guarded secret. Let it suffice to say that each one is profitable very profitable one general manager told me in this size Market a stations rate of return on owners investment could range anywhere from 15 to 25 percent. That's pretty good considering last year honeywell's rate of return was about 12 percent 3ms was 11% And if you could make 13% in the stock market, you would be considered a genius now, perhaps television managers are geniuses, but nevertheless says John Carmen television profits at the expense of the public television is Lord Thomson of Fleet Street set is almost a license to print money the public being ripped off. I think that's probably so I one thing that the public doesn't understand and it's pretty (00:22:58) much a cliche among people who understand (00:23:00) television is that the people in the public are are not the television consumers. Television consumers are advertisers and what the television consumers IE advertisers by is television viewers. They buy them Lock Stock and Barrel they buy them like herds of (00:23:19) cattle. (00:23:23) But in the end and by the way, the creative focal point of American television is the commercial. What do you mean by that? I mean that probably more effort is expended in in. Putting together a television commercial then than any other kind of programming. And and incidentally other types of programming is affected by commercial considerations, you know, it's it's common knowledge among television people (00:24:04) that (00:24:06) you don't you want to have a an entertainment program which people will watch and get sort of moderately involved in but you don't want to touch emotions too deeply because that doesn't set them up well for the commercial it follows if you recall there was a time during the 1950's when there were there was a lot of drama on television and it became very Volga should too. Are dramas were about common Ordinary People, you know, and I know the most famous example of that would be the show Marty which I (00:24:43) think was on television before it was made into a movie. (00:24:50) That sort of embarrassed advertisers because for 10 minutes or 12 minutes or 30 minutes. However long people would be watching this common watching these common folk and then Betty Furness or whoever would come on in an evening gown and try to sell a refrigerator and it looked odd Stanley Hubbard disagrees. He says one has to look beyond the profits of a television station (00:25:16) my opinion you talking about profit margins at the very misleading thing because broadcasting is a very capital-intensive business. For example, we didn't pay any dividends this year. We're not going to be paying any next year. We put our money back into the business because when we go out and buy new action cams, and we buy a new camera the new equipment that doesn't come out of our expenses that comes out of our earnings in order to remain the number one station in town and try to improve ourselves. We have to keep putting money back in and if all American industry could have good profit margins and could have the ability to To put back into the steel industry or whatever industry capital investment for new plant new equipment. They could perhaps stay healthy like we have because the public demand service and we can't give it to them unless we are in a business that returns a good amount of money. It would be impossible. (00:26:16) KS teepees country days is a rarity among locally produced television programs for two reasons. First of all, it is successful. So successful that it is now syndicated to 32 other stations in the midwest secondly country days is targeted not towards a mass audience but instead towards very small specialized one (00:26:36) Farmers. Actually I have been (00:26:38) in Sherry was leading producer of country days (00:26:42) mostly directing and then in the last maybe 10 years producing shows I've been doing I started the Twin Cities Today show with Steve a woman and was with that show for a year and then the opportunity came along to begin a new Venture a farm show that would be different from anything else being done around the country something that would be a regional type farm show. That would be a more feature oriented not the just the hard Farm news, it was markets and and that type of thing but that was able to communicate with farmers and Find out what farmers are really like (00:27:20) wassailing says the reason we don't see a wider variety of locally produced shows aimed at a specialized audience is because of the nature of the medium (00:27:28) this let me give you an example. You may have a great idea how to do a chest show but let's say there's not a lot of people who want to watch that. So after all it's a mass media and television is always trying to appeal to large numbers of people. That's either good or bad depending on whether you're an Advertiser or a chest specialist the any rate. I think that's news as we had Universal appeal. And so the thrust has been there and still is there in terms of local effort. Now, there's there's plenty of local programming going on in this country. It just doesn't pay a lot of attention to but it is but is by specialized group for example are some good religious programming going on. It's usually low budget stuff locally, but it's being done there interview shows, but the but news has had the biggest thrust in the big (00:28:13) markets. Why don't we see much entertainment locally (00:28:15) produced well, There's a lot of theories about that too. But I think part of it is it it pales when it's compared to put up against the what the network can put on every day. That's um, that's an easy answer. I mean they all tell you that and I'm not certain that's the truth that takes you know, you always say there's a lot of talent around but when you put it in front of a TV Camera, it isn't always the right tell of right talent for that. Hey, maybe the talent that's good enough Concert Hall doesn't show up on television or well, it's just a lot of it's a whole different sort of media and it's very difficult to put up a local comedian or a local singer when you've got that the national stuff every night on Johnny Carson and wherever (00:28:54) should ratings make a break a show. (00:29:01) They do whether they should or not. No, I don't think they should personally and I'm I'm sure most responsible people in television would say this to that you've got to have things on that don't get ratings because because they're important and television really local television is concerned about the public good. It isn't just because they're required to before licensing purposes or the or the NAB code or something. They really are they're concerned and responsible business people just like any other business people are in this in this country, maybe even more so because of that also that that legislated responsibility Why do you have this sitting on your desk? Well, that was this is from from That's A Relic from back in the days of an NBC was a great Network in MVC used to play this this is the time tone and they do that every time there was a station break or on the our you'd hear that in be say was a musical logo kind of (00:30:08) notice that Stanley S Hubbard used the past tense when he referred to NBC as a great Network that will be important early next march when you turn to channel 9 to watch Happy Days and it's not there. Are you turn to channel 5 to watch John Chancellor and he's gone to the reason for all this confusion will be because ABC in early March will change from Channel 9 to Channel 5 simple enough, but now the plot thickens the displaced NBC which was on five will not take ABC's place at Channel 9 instead. It is moving to channel 11, which used to be an independent, but won't be anymore. And if that isn't enough consider this Channel 9, which was ABC and expected to become NBC will in March be neither instead. It will become an independent two years ago ABC approach Stanley S Hubbard of Channel 5 and asked him if you wanted to become affiliated with ABC Hubbard said, he didn't want to talk to them last winter ABC tried again this time Hubbard listened and finally after series of meetings with ABC Hubbard decided to drop NBC and snap a baby. See Hubbard said there were a couple of reasons for changing networks one was that ABC would allow Channel 5 to extend its signal into the Alexandria and Eau Claire areas, which were already served by NBC but not ABC but that was a minor reason. The major reason for switching said Hubbard was Network (00:31:36) Management number one and Paramount and most important is the fact that we think that a that a VC is the really the network of the future. They have the best management team. Their management team from the own olds right up through the top Leonard Goldenson. Who's the chairman of ABC we think is the best Management in broadcasting today and they've got people in place. They're not scrambling around as NBC as there's a see another article on a trade Journal this week saying a total confusion Reigns at NBC. ABC does not find itself in a position to Total confusion. They've got people who've been there 10 years 20 years 25 years or in position. They know what they're doing. They've got a plan and they're they're really got it all together as is evidenced by the success of their (00:32:18) programs dance warts general manager of KMSP Channel 9 said he got the news that the number one network was deserting his station via a long distance phone (00:32:28) call was in Los Angeles a meet in a meeting and On the Monday that I was through in the morning. I was down in Newport Beach to an art festival and came back and there was a message at my hotel room that Robert found from ABC was trying to reach being would be calling about 6:30. That evening. And I waited the call and he said over the phone to me. This is a job that I I'm Desi to say and I hate to tell you that we just made a deal with the Hubbard's and we'll be giving you six months notice. My first reaction was you got to be kidding and he says no and I said to him are the paper sign and he said (00:33:25) yes, why did ABC switch from your station to Channel 5. (00:33:30) Well if the question has been asked a lot of times and I've been mulling it over the best knobs that we have is that we've been a pretty good affiliate in of ABC for 19 years. Yes. They one time where a little unhappy that our news ratings hadn't improved but we also told them that their news ratings hadn't helped and surveys that we made is when a national catastrophe came along that in most cases the viewers turn to the other two network. Not to ABC About a year and a half ago ABC decided to try to get or obtain Affiliates in markets with had read either the top news stations in most cases. They were NBC affiliates because the NBC affiliates are the old Liners in the business. It was the first Network and a lot of the ownerships of the NBC stations were either radio or newspaper people that had a big background in news. And from the start were news oriented the ABC stations throughout the country outside of the owned-and-operated stations have had as much difficulty as we have and trying to convince the public that we can provide them with a new service but it goes beyond that in the Minneapolis case in our investigation is that number one They are angry at Fred Silverman for leaving ABC and they wanted to go out and get a top Old Line Station. That was one of the first on the area and probably the first station affiliated with NBC. I'm buying one and three. (00:35:46) There are basically four reasons why local broadcasters have local news programs first. It is a service to the community. Secondly the FCC considers local news to be in the category of serving the public interest convenience and necessity and if a station didn't carry news chances are it would have a difficult time getting its license renewed. Another reason to have local news is that it is good for stations image and the fourth reason why stations do local news is because it is profitable. Did you ever wonder why it seems half the Billboards and buses in town have a picture of somebody's news team on it and the other half tell us that they have the best news organization because they have color weather radar and live action mini cams. (00:36:44) Just a moment. But first off we want to check in real quick standing by and it's been a long long day of Tennyson are Rob you've been out there since about 10:00 this morning. Yeah crowd of about 10,000. (00:36:57) Well all this is done in order to win the race for number one being number one is important not only from the standpoint of journalistic Pride. It is also important in the accounting and Executive offices in July Channel 5, Drew more people to it's 10:00 p.m. Newscast. Then did channels 49 combined. Thus they can charge more to advertisers for 30 second commercial because they attract a larger audience currently one Thirty second spot on Channel 5 during the ten o'clock news costs about $1,200 channel four charges 709 275 dollars for 30 seconds Channel 11 shows. It's late evening news at 9:30. They charge about 275 dollars as well. I asked John Kerman of the star if the public benefits from the race to be number one. Yes in a way in a way the public does benefit because It wasn't really very long ago that local newscast consisted pretty much of one Anchorman who was on camera during most of the newscast and read items handed to him by. Two or three or four reporters at the station might employ. In the 1960s a big reversal occurred and that's (00:38:19) when when local news (00:38:21) program started to make money and when that potential cropped up a lot more effort was put into those programs. And they've spent heavily not always in the right way, but the staffs have been expanded. There's a bit better product on nice that they haven't always spent in the correct way where they made mistakes. I don't see any reason. Any practical reason to have co-anchors anchor people draw High salaries think it's reasonable to think that the $70,000 or whatever you're paying a second. Anchor person might be spent to hire three decent reporters. It's a you know, co-anchor the co-anchor format is basically cosmetic Ron Hamburg. The news director for WCCO. Television says, the biggest chunk of his budget is not money for sets our camera equipment instead. It is people costs but says Hamburg they do spend money on cosmetics and he sees nothing wrong with that. (00:39:33) We do spend money on the Cosmetic side. If you will of television news, it is important that we attract an audience and hold an audience and make our newscast relevant to an audience and a comfortable experience for the audience to To take part in if you examine this closely we are asking hundreds of thousands of people every night to join us. We're half an hour or 45 minutes to watch and to hopefully enjoy and benefit from a news program. If that program cosmetically is unattractive to them uncomfortable to them. They're not going to do that and all the other benefits that they might. Obtained from a news program will be lost simply because it is an uncomfortable experience. So too we had we do have an obligation to make our newscast not only informative but interesting and attractive and in my estimation, there's nothing wrong with that there is nothing ethically or journalistically abhorrent about that. It is part of our responsibility in the same way that is part of the newspapers responsibility to make their front page attractive to the eye interesting to the eye in the same way. It is important to them and to us to make our writing succinctness ice complete. One is not mutual image. They're not mutually exclusive kinds of things and if we were doing one to the exclusion of the other then I think the criticism that we often hear would be more Justified than it is. Both camps will start running the TV spots tonight Terry drink water CBS News Los Angeles and that's the way it is Tuesday October 10th 1978. This is Walter Cronkite. CBS News. This (00:41:34) has doubtful Walter Cronkite can really tell us the way it is and 30 minutes is local television telling us the way it is a free press exists in America because of the Jeffersonian notion that an informed public will make the right decisions given enough hard facts, you think you're giving the public enough hard facts with 30 minutes of know the Public's The public's not giving itself enough hard facts Stan Turner news director for KSTP channel 5 the public the should supplement what it sees on television with reading in newspapers and magazines. There has lots there are you know, plenty of periodicals and newspapers around now, we can't force people to do that that is up to people to do that. So they are the ones that have to take the initiative, but when I look on the billboard Complete comprehensive alive. Yes within the context of the time restrictions under which we operate I feel that is a true statement. Why do we see three minutes of whether it's okay. Here's what the temperature is now occurring the Mexico. A lot of people care just don't put the temperature in Albuquerque on the are some night you take the phone calls here weather is an extreme. I think that's a rather simple and obvious answer whether is an extremely important state of being elements in this part of the country. I think it is in most parts of the country. But especially here we are still to this day a largely agriculturally oriented State a lot of people derive their income their livelihoods from agriculture or agriculture related industry. And besides that we are we live in a climate of extremes and in great Variety in the types of weather we have here it ranges from the violence the tornadoes the blizzards and the rest to the more the more calm and with these violent to shifts in weather conditions all the time people have a legitimate right to want to know what's going Here and elsewhere. We are still a mobile Society you as news director probably come up with ours are exposed to hundreds of ideas for stories and week and you can only choose so many and you know, what's left out the public really doesn't how do you think the public would react if they actually knew how many stories you left out a week in order to make time for weather? Well sports that the point you raised is probably the most difficult part of not only my job, but everybody else in this news department or any other news Department. It's called probably an error of omission because there again our time restrictions in the newspapers to some degree face the same problem if the public knew the stories like take for example today this very day the stories that we will not be able to cover. I'm sure that there's a there are a great number of people who would who would condemn the decision for having left out. This story many cases. It's a story that deals with them directly or closely might be a neighborhood issue. It might be something of a an issue like abortion whether they feel very strongly about one way or the other. It's a judgment call we make every day. And I guess there's a certain presumptuous about its presumptuousness about it saying that we're going to presume to know today what we feel to be what we feel to be the most important stories to the greatest number of people said it's a difficult thing for anybody to have to make that kind of decision, but I get phone calls occasionally from people who say why weren't you out here today? We had this big community meeting the city wants to condemn this park land where our kids are playing now and put up high-rise. We feel is an important issue and we in the news business agree with that. It just so happens. There might have been some issues of more overriding concern to greater numbers of people outside of that neighborhood on a given day. That's not to say that the stories we choose to Omit on a given day or not important. It is to say that we feel that maybe there are other stories that take precedence because they may affect more people in this individual story did why don't we see one hour of news? Well your dad over channel for you. Tell me what happened ratings said we'll wait a minute. Why are the ratings in the viewers say that the viewers rejected that some viewers they still had thousands of viewers watching it for one hour. Yeah thousands of viewers that are not in the overall scheme of things not enough viewers to tell them that there's a there's a substantial desire for an hour. I never saw that in the reading books. I don't know if you have but I never saw enough numbers there to tell me that people are clawing at their television sets for a full hour. What is enough numbers though. Does it have to be the most at that time? Well, it should be darn near the most. Yes. Why well, I think the majority this country is kind of based on majority rule and it seems to be kind of a democratic way of doing things if we see that even a simple majority of people want to an expanded newscast and then that's a pretty good indicator that maybe others ought to follow suit If the app if the public appetite is not there why force feed them? I don't understand that but don't FCC regulation say you are to act in the public interest convenience and necessity. They don't say anything about programming by majority. Yeah, where does it say in the public interest need a necessity anything about 60 Minutes as opposed to 30 minutes? Who makes that decision who decides should the public one out every time should they went out every time well, I think they do we listen to them and we look at we look at our call sheets in the morning as to what they like and don't like we look at the ratings of our local programs and our Network programs. You can ask many a producer in Hollywood or New York whether the public wins out when his show is gone down in flames and he'll tell you. Yes, invariably the public wins out. It is easy to criticize television after all it just sits there in our living rooms waiting to be kicked. But perhaps these kick should be aimed Elsewhere for not only is television a transmitter of images. It is also a reflection of ourselves. This is Jeff Evans.