I think the most important thing that happened to your is the fact that it did happen that for Knotts conference 40% of the people who came here with people not from Arts organizations that organizations that relate to the ER to win. The major things to talk about is just to continue the kind of relationship that was opened up for the first time here remarks at the National Conference on arts in urban Economic Development. The conference began Wednesday in Minneapolis and has been sponsored by the Minneapolis Arts commission costing over $80,000 the Gathering attracted about 160 people from diverse backgrounds and geographical areas. It hasn't been a traditional Arts convention. In fact, like reset it's a first and in the coming weeks participants will be evaluating the information generated by the three days of meetings. If there has been a philosophical heart to this conference. It really started beating last night rather than from the start in a banquet hall with Olmos.The third of the group apps and they had left early to watch the laser light show three well-known urban planners challenge the audience to rethink their ideas about the function of Art in society and especially in urban areas de set the stage New York Times economics columnist Neil Pierce chart of the growth of Arts in America are spreading like a prairie Wildfire to people and places which rarely partook in them before the National Endowment for the Arts found that between 1965 and 75 the number of professional orchestras in America expanded from 58 to 100. We went from 27 professional opera companies to 45 from 37 professional dance companies to 157 23 professional Theatres 245 12128 start 12 State Arts agencies to 50 and 175 Community Arts agencies to some nine hundred and I'm sure if anyone could even begin to count all the organ isNations and events dealing with the Arts on the neighborhood level the expansion would be in the tens of thousands. Only three years ago. Nancy Hanks said there is no crisis in the Arts. The only crisis is our failure to view them as a resource to improve our cities a tremendous resource for stimulating the vitality humaneness and the economy of our cities and towns now in part through the programs that nice at Nancy hangs herself inaugurated as head of the Arts endowment. I don't think that anyone would say that cities and towns are oblivious to the advantages of the Arts. In the past couple of years, we have witnessed an amazing Rejuvenation of many of our City's a slackening of our preoccupation with the pathology of cities and a switch in intention to their magnificent potential as places of positive human interaction from neighborhoods to the inner core's I don't believe it's any accident that the growth and urban Arts clear down to the neighborhood level has occurred at the same time that hope has been rekindled in our urban urban future and in our cities the Revival of cities in urban neighborhoods that has not been even many places are still in deep despair. Neither of the Arts played a large role everywhere. They to have a long way to go. But where are the Revival and the growth has occurred and has been significant the Arts have often been a handmaiden in the process the Arts and those City and neighborhood values with which we now associate them have other attributes particularly appropriate. As a to the needs of our times they are labor-intensive. They are energy sparing. They are environmentally and ecologically benign. They involve people in an age of ruthlessness and malaise involving them with Community with history and with worthwhile tradition, and we should not spurn the crafts the crafts and the role they can play both economic and cultural as much as modern dance orchestral Renditions. They can help Write the balanced and a society shaped if not brutalized by concern with the gross national product and the accumulation of private wealth at the economic role of the Arts remain significant for Pierce. He quoted a surprising statistic that attendance at all Arts events in America in one year outstrips that of all sports attendance Pierce. Also noted that for every dollar spent on the arts for additional dollars are generated in related expenditures UCLA dean of urban planning party perloff. Agreed with Pierce and repeated comments made to me earlier in an interview at the American economy is undergoing a transfer. It involves a shift from Goods production to the creation of services coping with the difficulties of increasingly complex Services affect more than just the Arts used to having Manufacturing Company turn out a product could be pretzels or Coca-Cola or cars or something and it kind of simple relationship of the product being put on the marketing people either buying it or not depending on the competitive situation. But now when you're looking at the services that isn't that kind of thing, you don't have a neat sale of a service fake Health just one of her most important thing would not been able to organize that very well in this result the cost of Education it has those numbers you find that it is not like selling pretzels. And so the financing of the service is very complicated. It involves multiple sources of various levels of government foundations corporations and private individuals of pain. Oh that's very much more complicated. You see it though with the Arts being as intangible as they are more intangible than a Health Service or and agricultural service making it almost in the realm of impossibility to organize. My theory was if you could solve the problems for the Arts tickets off of parole the other services so that I thought I think it's interesting to tackle the most extreme Case by the impact of Arts on the economy of Los Angeles County in recent months convinced that the bottom line will prove positive perloff said that the major Pitfall to Arts Impact is the Deep division between the profit and non-profit art sectors. Although he didn't see a Reconciliation in the near future The Economist said a complementary relationship between public and private arts and Devers could expedite the goods to Services transfer not so countered his colleague and fellow panelist dick netzer netzer is Dean of NYU Graduate School of public administration and he presented fundamental economic argument to refute perlasca intentions for netzer. Only a few American cities could hope to use the Arts as an economic tool those such as New York Los Angeles and perhaps San Francisco, but Nets are also objected to / Lofts view of the Arts on a more basic level reading is an ordinary citizens who have some concern both for the Arts and the economy. I have a fundamental disagreement with a notion that they are should be considered much less use as a tool for Everly conomic development. The arts qualla arts has the highest form of human expression the essence of civilization in my view can be only I can only be harmed by seeing them as instruments to be manipulated for any other purpose Commerce therapy education, whatever former Philadelphia planner Edmund bacon brought still another perspective to Issue of the Arts rolling Urban economics while he said he supported that's Hearst and he felt the whole question a bit overstated. But in the normal course of development of humanity the Arts of always been a completely integral part of life and they've been totally integrated with Commerce and politics in the satyrs of the Cities from the Greek Agora and the Roman forum and the medieval Marketplace and the Baroque square and it's only in very recent times in are highly civilized United States. With the people becoming a dupe to the Suburban delusion. That's a split occur. And indeed the whole business of the Suburban idea of American life is a great feeding phenomenon and by the finest distance of the OPEC countries, it will very soon be a dead duck. So that a lot of the things we're talking about will just automatically disappear in the course of natural development. And the idea is really late that of restoring life to the normal format had all the while and recognizing that the reason to live in cities is to have fun. By the way. Have fun udemy condoms. Not that money. Bacon saw the return to human concerns as encompassing the critical question of location of Arts within the community and the primary reasons are not for economic but rather social and cultural health of a city and when it comes to a location decision, unfortunately actually among the art elite there is a very serious infection of the Suburban virus. I happen to know a city that's another city of this country where they are proposing to build a tremendous Art Museum. They said we will bring it down town how marvelous how but it must be in settings. So that simply means that it would be 7 blocks removed from the central core which is exactly enough to do I have no effect whatsoever on what happened downtown and it could just as well be out in University Circle or in the suburbs as far as any real effect of making a live the experience of being downtown and therefore of making the downtown the magnet for people to return to live in the downtown and the development of a whole new integration of the social units in the community and a whole new sense of citizenship and associations and major Seattle project, which will join both the cultural and economic sectors. This will be the first time in the world that ever was built an art museum with your go-to from three department stores under air condition balls. and I what's that mean? Yeah, well there a lot of us eat people around their Affair scared of things like that. It's it's a it's a very interesting challenge for American culture. And there are many people who are very offended at the idea of mixing art and Commerce in such a crass wipes, but I'll tell you one saying The people of Seattle are on fire with excitement. I have never seen your compared with those the spin-off are the generation from it of a new sense of life of a new sense of interaction and the art wheel, in fact for out of the museum into the streets and there will be festivals in the streets. There will be there will be a sculptor shows and there will be many things of that sort going and certainly from the point of view of the hard cold economic facts of the city. This is the kind of thing that makes the city alive that makes a city a thing to live in and make a fireball and vibrant economic entity has mixed reactions to the panelists reveal the state of flux, which is persisted through much of the conference. No one including the staff has seemed to want to openly declare a specific role for the Arts conference staff member Chris Nelson said the very title of the Gathering left a philosophical door unlatched the role of the Yards in an urban Economic Development. There was purposely worded that way because we didn't want to make a statement that the Arts. Have a role but to leave it as an open issue. What should essentially it boils down to what should the role of the Arts be in urban Economic Development. It may not have a role to play in may not be a significant role to play or maybe a very great role to play but it's an open question and it has to be explored and that's that was the purpose of the conference if anyone group appeared unified. It was the small band of federal officials who brought greetings to those assembled from Washington the emissaries from the Commerce Department HUD and the Department of Labor all seem to cut from the same fabric which clothes Jimmy Carter's Urban policy announced earlier this year in that policy statement the president announced the inclusion of arts and the humanities as integral parts of his Urban landscape this week. All the speech is referred to that part of dictum all quoted Manor Jackson's eloquent statement on Urban Arts contained in a mayor's conference report and all stuck firmly to generalities when dealing with their own departments attempts to formulate an urban Arts policy. Louise wener a special assistant to the Commerce Secretary seemed most strongly convinced that the Arts could serve as an economic development tool a tool that she defined as the people magnet the yard seem to be a way or if you will a magnet for drawing a lot of people to a specific place at a specific time and the Arts Community noticed that repeatedly as a as a spontaneous element, perhaps the ultimate example in recent history being the Tut exhibition and the way in which people just came from all over in order to experience that exhibition. It's that concept of the Arts as an element capable of drawing a lot of people to a particular place which economic developers and city planners are now Particularly interested in does that mean that by placing the Arts at strategic points in the city one can do exactly what all city planners are trying to do draw people back to a particular place. And in fact, the success has been quite spectacular Commerce Department to actively fund an art program would remain intact. She's stressed that the traditional Department programs would be increasingly geared for arch support systems. The economic development Administration in the Department of Commerce is one of the chief funding resources for construction needs in cities and we have been successful in funding expansion renovation or new construction for various cultural institutions where that was a Citi priority the United States Travel Service, which is our federal tourism agency is a Part of the Department of Commerce USPS focuses on promoting the cultural activity of various cities as another asset for drawing tourists particularly International tourists to that particular City the industry and trade Administration which focuses on industry development and does minimal amounts indirect grant-making programs. But rather has a lot to do with policy issues and legislative issues looks at the arts for example and says, what does the existence of the Arts in and arts expertise? Tell us about product saleability abroad? What can we learn from the Arts in terms of packaging and cultural sensitivities which are important to our balance of trade issues or what does the nonprofit sector think about and and feel about it. Related profit-making elements like the recording industry where the publishing industry of and what perspectives do they bring to our policy making that perhaps we haven't been insensitive to before but may be helpful both for the nonprofit and the profit-making sector in those Industries. What we what we are pushing towards is a recognition of a broad variety of really humanistically oriented Assets in a community which offer not only social good but which but which fit into the grand scheme of things the department does not see its role as one of creating a stronger Arts constituency, but rather a more Humane expensive and creative business and economic development constituency, and the Have an important role to play in that and yet weiner senses and uneasiness attention in the newly-formed partnership between business and the Arts. We've had a 500 year is based on what I would call the Medici model. That was the great Patron and the artists in my perspective. That means that for 500 years. We've worked on a system where you had the patron and the patronised and the artist also kind of felt a little rub the wrong about that as well. Now as the Arts are developing into a much broader National effort which with a much broader constituency, they have gained a level of credibility which brings with it a level of responsibility as well. And you're moving a little closer to a partnership model that mod. brings with it some bonuses and also takes away some traditional benefits. So you're you're in a. Where there are some some tensions are trying to on both sides of the business side as well as the other side trying to find their proper level, but I think it's a very healthy kind of tension and I think it's moving in important directions. I I don't see it as a negative wieners colleague at the Department of Housing and Urban Development couch her hopes for the Arts in similar style Donna Shalala who has the policy and research Department said that an actual head Arts policy is making the rounds in her office and should be formulated shortly. Whether that policy will heavily emphasize an economic role for the Arts is questionable. Although Shalala believed economic impacts candy scene in preservation and renovation program the assistant secretary appear to put more stock in arts as a revitalizing force in neighborhood cultural environments. She cited Community block grant. As providing cultural spaces in public housing projects and called for increasing public walls are murals programs. In addition to those incentives shillelagh mentioned. What would become probably the 1980s Redevelopment theme the livable cities program now before Congress it will be Hud's first coordinated attempt to involve art groups directly and revitalization efforts at the neighborhood level. The National Endowment for the Arts will be our partner in this Enterprise cities program is based on the idea that artistic cultural and historic resources are significant in restoring and maintaining the Vitality of the urban environment the amount of money. Of course, it would be spent on the livable cities program will be small at least for the first couple of years for that reason, we believe it is crucial that the program's be that that are selected the imaginative and make a major contribution to improving the neighborhood environment. The program is a way of showing HUD local communities and the rest of the country that small arts-related grants can go a long way and Revitalize a neighborhood by the wasn't the only official with key legislation being held in political a band assistant labor. Secretary Ernest Green had hoped to outline the new comprehensive training and Employment Act the seat of Bill as he faced the conference the seat of legislation faced its first day in a congressional conference committee with House and Senate fighting over the amount of reduction in seated position green acknowledge, the program's controversies, but lashed out at a recent source of criticism, which charge local Cedar projects with proving that the Arts and nothing more than Frills. Mom Readers Digest engage and what I think is one of those worst cases of yellow yellow journalism a scathing attack on Cedar and put arts and quotation marks inside. Kebab public money being spent to support painting sculpture Pottery movie making Street Theater at guitar playing and weaving it goes on to say that most of the artist support have just left jobs in the private economy and assertion Which flies directly in the face of ample findings concerning long-term double-digit unemployment among ideas. Apparently such critics are not aware of one very important thing that an unemployed artist is just as worthy of a job and training as an unemployed bricklayer unemployed secretary stenographer. Then green went further projects here and elsewhere also a recognition of another cultural Factor. That the odds for this nation are powerful force for further instability diversity and economic development at the neighborhood level art projects sharpen the skills of Arts practitioners keep alive worthy nonprofits organization and leave behind permanent and highly visible Masterworks and I think most of all generate local support for artistic and cultural activities. The assistant secretary said that despite some inevitable reduction in seated position stricter eligibility requirements and tougher program evaluation. He's Department still firmly backs programs for under employed or unemployed artist and he added laborers new interest in those arts-related programmed title in there that provides for expansion and locating making a better connection between a training activity and jobs. I think quite frankly one of the What's with the training system in the past is that we've put people through endless training things that have no relationship there anything at the end of it and the major task when faced with and the area that I administer is to move people from training or subsidized are Financial skills level the point where they are fairly independent. Ernest Greene assistant labor secretary in charge of training and employment programs organizers build the major part of the conference as nuts and bolts workshops and hope to formulate basic strategies for getting the public and policymakers to recognize the value of the Arts area is covered in the small sessions included arts in the city image Rehabilitation and renovation of Central City properties for artist work space and arts programming for profit and non-profit according to a conference brochure in the course of three days. Each Workshop group would try and design a model for meeting local needs as decided by the group Specialists would be on hand to lend expertise. Once a model program had been constructed by the end of the first day many of the participants were frustrated or buoyant depending on their individual groups. We attended One Rehab Workshop where communication came to a total halt his participants realize the vast differences in their local problems on the other hand a session on City image had an aura of a support With everyone reassurance that things were is bad everywhere else is they were in their own cities assigned the task of pulling the common threads together from all of the discussion Alvin reefs found the participants growing flexibility as one of the workshops Chiefs trades, but to the many kinds of options, they had Concepts Challenge and I think what many people learned that even something worked in that particular City last year perhaps four years earlier wouldn't have worked the five years later. It might not work. So there's a need and being far more sophisticated and broadening. The involvement of a lot of pot is in any kind of program. We talked about rehab rehabilitation of an Area Arts use of that area with talking about a whole series of Publix that are involved in that development than that have benefits and that there are a variety of ways to approach it and to do it and I think we're developing new Partnerships out of this. You know, we're at a beginning stage in a liquid say we're at 1 AD or 10 a D in this field is true and is social Ncert a very new they are just beginning to become recognized by many aspects of society that never knew the value that the yards had years ago. Our troops used to go hand-in-hand to funding agency or government agency and say help us because we need help and today. I think they could approach him on the basis of equals help us because we could help you and here's how we can help you because Rehabilitation has been the focus of much interest in the Twin Cities in Minnesota in general lately. We follow the progress of those workshops closely while each municipality had its own Court some major problems kept surfacing in the rehab discussion and planners like Louise wener Rich dialogues between elected officials the business sector and artists to draft the best integration of art spaces within a community one of the issues which is raised but clearly not resolved because I think it's an ongoing issue is the issue of districting versus diversification. There's a great deal to be said for diversification. The people magnet property simply proposes that one asset that the Arts bring to an urban planning table is its ability to draw people. Now that doesn't necessitate the creation of an Arts District in order to function. I we're finding that certain kinds of elements require seem to be more amenable to districting others. I bring enough substance themselves to be able to participate more effectively in diversification. That's an ongoing issue. I think that the artists are raising some question about integrating what began as a spontaneous development in SoHo with artist moving into lost said and Renovating them for their own purposes into an element of City Planning. I think that's a very important and clearly not resolved issue 1 exciting example. It is occurring also in New York. And that is that when they a rehabilitated a huge vacant apartment complex. They did it not exclusively for Artisan Studio space, but they combined for the needs of senior citizens and artists in what has become quite a fascinating mix and has somewhat precluded the the ghetto eyes door some have even less kindly called it a zoo like quality at to some of this, you know pendulums on these things going to swing from one extreme to another in this instance. I think that's a the Arts community. City planners in the economic development people are in fact very tuned in to those concerns and our our exploring them very seriously from a very early stage of development. That's exactly what has happened in Seattle Washington while the city has graduated to the kinds of projects described earlier by Edmund bacon were cultural and Commercial centers are almost totally murder. There was a time when location problems occupied most of Karen Gates time, as Arts commission director for years ago it became apparent to the city planners that artist we're living illegally all over the city and they were either going to get arrested or fires were going to occur as we're happening in other cities. Are we were going to deal with his own in question. So we had two approaches that we could follow one was to develop an artist ghetto. And put all of the artists in one spot create his own the other was to do a more creative approach which would integrate artist into all areas of the community. Luckily the the planners and the communities wanted the latter approach as a result. We very slowly and carefully and I stress that because we're talking about a three-year process. We very slowly and carefully begin to meet with the various departments in the city the fire department of sanitation department the health department the police department all of those departments that had some component of concern in the zoning coding questions, and we ask them for input. We ask them. How can we change the zoning to make it possible from your perspective for artists to live and work in the same space? So we spent a year Gathering specific information then we spent a year building Community Support letter-writing campaigns going Do individual communities individual businesses and then we spent a year with the legal department putting together the language that would meet all of those conditions. And we in the midst of that I developed a pilot project called The Watch person's project which allowed 15 buildings to be housed in part by artist serving as watch person has guards at night if you will and that got a lot of visibility the public became very excited about that idea. We had Public tours and the in the final analysis because we were very careful and slow to involve all of the various people who were going to be impacted by this. We successfully got an ordinance passed the city council level and I would encourage any City faced with the zoning question to be sure to do the groundwork to take the time to include all of the people who are going to be involved in the process. Not be as Arts Consciousness Seattle could maybe on a longer timescale do the very same thing and get the support? Yes. It involves a lot of PR a lot of Education a lot of direct face-to-face contact between the artist and whoever it is who doesn't want them because artist regular folks they are not they are not anything that could possibly damage a community but many people don't know artist and I think yes over a carefully planned strategy given enough time and enough personal contact. I'm I feel that any Community could could get their zoning taken care of for Minneapolis. The problem has not been one of zoning residential land use as possible in almost every area of the city, but the warehouse district has been coping with that other problem building codes city arts commission staff member Chris Nelson study the issue with length. Use studio studio living space is unique. And every building is unique and it's very difficult to get an inspection department to adopt a broad policy on what those standards and requirements will be able to look at this specific situation and make a specific determination based on that for the design and in the intended use. So what does that mean in terms of trying to get some kind of policy downtown district de it means in terms of building code policy that it's not possible and that the indeed that the artist and and entities involved with the support of artists housing have a very frustrating no problem in terms of trying to Determine our approach and predict how development can occur one of the problems that particularly in Minneapolis and I say this cautiously because the inspections department has been very supportive and Jen in the spirit with the artist Yusef of Warehouse buildings, but it has been frustrating in that they have have been very uncertain in terms of what codes apply and how they apply there is very little written communication that that is the transpires between artists that are concerned about this. I mean specialist department. So the problem has occurred that once a code problem is solved then presumably that is through the final code problem. It's all inspections department has found another code issued to that the needs to be solved in it can be in listen and very expensive and that's it as a critical issue a roofer for artist housing because artist housing because it is for a profession. That is It suffers from a low income. Clawson those cost me make a dead totally impossible and it also inhibits artist from even considering to get involved in and code issues because of the costs involved in may just be totally prohibited that can jeopardize their whole situation by even talkin to inspections department every car. Well, the remedy this situation like most things that come comes with money that the City of Minneapolis to date has been been supportive. It's been terms of public financing is available is very limited and it's very difficult to apply in this type of situation. This is to to recycle Warehouse buildings to residential use is outside the norm in terms of housing policy for the Country Inn and certainly housing policy locally. He look at Minneapolis. Just within the past year of the city has developed a multi-family housing policy in with any degree of earnestness to two compound that very recent experience by talking about converting Warehouse buildings to residential use, it's it's it's 10 years Beyond where the housing policy is here in Minneapolis at this point. What did forces want to do is to look at other Financial Resources. They're available the private sector in terms of Banks and Savings and Loan Institutions is just too expensive and the demands for the kind of development that they they would like to see occur on terms of quality of construction in terms of the refinement of construction as far as having a making the space more marketable really prevent that from being a very useful are available source of financing what we're attempting to do with with our nonprofit organization has been set up to assist artist with this is to work with the existing building owners to leverage their involvement and my involvement I mean their investment in the building that they own to do to help to create artist studio living space and how to leverage that involvement. We're sinking sinking Foundation money as as an ingredient of our sweetener. Let us say for that. that type of involvement the issue of control his is also an aspect of that that we're we're climbing into bed with the owner and yet the owner is is also a person that that can jeopardize the situation because this person has at his discretion the ability to increase the rims are presumably increase the wrens and any he is going to obtain a very valuable building in the end. So our approach to that and hopefully solution at least a partial remedy is to approach to the development on I'm very clear terms and what I mean by that is a long-term lease that has specified increases if there are to be increases for the rental of the space along with that the promotion of artist operatives. Well, that's a component of it. What we're talking about is a leasehold Cooperative where the long-term lease is the control in the basis for this entity call The Coop to manage and maintain as as well as have some ownership privileges, although for a limited time is a concept that we've just begun to explore and they're at their several issues that are involved with It is of limited duration and Equity build up is not possible under that that form it's much more flexible. And in terms of approaching this to develop a better experience and understanding of it. It's the least risky approach compared to the ownership. It also there's a tax question in whether at least hold Cooperative can qualify for Homestead status as far as property taxes and property taxes can be a significant aspect of the cars specially for warehouse buildings that are depressed in value and there's a significant increase in the value through the the construction so that the possible increase in property taxes could be quite significant. Can we expect to see? The movement on this by other public agencies like your agency or or some kind of economic study group in the next year or so. And if not, what kind of an effect is it going to have on artist living space in Minneapolis? Is there going to be a is it going to start to fall back? Well, it's hard to say it's going to fall back. I think that they are the spaces that have been created and there are several that have been created legally in isolated situations. If there's certainly going to be maintained in and continued. I think the movement is going to be slower and Minneapolis then then say and Soho in New York, and I don't think it's as rapid as we think it is an in Seattle or Boston either that it's a very involved process. It's a pioneering form of development and it can be complex given the actors involved. I think in the next year we can anticipate at least for the nonprofit organization anticipates completing a project and really were approaching it as a as a test situation not to to risk all our marbles on this project but to be able to use that experience to apply to additional project and the one question that despite all the market surveys that it can be done now the market exist. And is just truly tested when you have someone who shows up pays the rent and continues to pay the rent for our buys into it. And that's a question that you don't know until you have experienced and it's a question that we have in Minneapolis is how expensive is the market how much space should be created how much space is marketable and another aspect of that by creating the first project will have a better understanding of that. Although not not the answer because we'll have something on the Shelf we can show people and they can respond to it and they have a much clearer notion about what's involved in and what product is Chris Nelson of the Minneapolis Arts commission when the zoning and code issues have been discussed fully in the Workshops the ever-present land speculation game came up. That's the Dilemma. We're artists in some renovated areas are forced out by high rents after investing time and energy in revitalizing old loft space. That's the specialty of Richard linzer the Massachusetts Arts and Humanities foundation in Reddit located in Boston for us which we did 1977 which involved 2700 visual artists who live in the Commonwealth was to ascertain both the very precise very specific special requirements ours had and also to look at the on-demand component. The ability of artist says individual entrepreneurs in a cultural Marketplace to both require and afford space. The approach that Boston has taken is not to look at speculation as a an evil. But instead to look at many of the financial processes that are associated with it with development to look at how they can work on behalf of artists and to use the tools that exist within the market place to encourage a kind of speculation in which the artist become not only participants but in which one in financial terms might be called a sum zero game is created. It's a game in which everyone wins but nobody wins quite as my Just a Mite under other circumstances so that we view speculation. We view the desire of individual developers of the desire of agencies within the city as a healthy thing. I we see the incorporation of the existing financial institutions into the process, but we emphasize very strongly the essential role of the artist and the imperative that the artist who move into two buildings, I'll become the owners of those buildings because I think it's through ownership that many of the evils of of of Rapid speculation can be avoided dunbridge Reckless Richard Windsor of the Massachusetts Arts and Humanities Foundation Incorporated the workshop discussions on a whole have been intense and often participants would carry on The Talk outside the conference room long after the meetings ended most of the people questioned said that they'd picked up ideas and consider the exchange the best part of the conference a recurring question has been where was the corporate. Your and the individual artist. I will legislator Robert Beno who also happens to be a visual artist felt more input from both of those groups might have been an advantage City. And if you use them as your vehicle the Arts it's important. If you're going to affect to artist for instance that you include them so that you have some first-hand input as to what their needs are and what their reactions are tube of programming. I think beyond that the corporate it may be fine to have them represented. But I think the first hand contact for the management people in for the artist with those corporate-level individuals would be again helpful is across linkage at all stages of development. One of the things that we fear is that the decisions are made in the vacuum the maiden of vacuum normally when you don't have all the elements included and then you go back in and reinvent the wheel or or look at a price. Such as revitalization and the delays that follow when you don't include all elements amount to be costly to the taxpayer and I think that's the bottom line and all of this you're talkin about. How do you bring those cities back to a more livable condition in this case? This conference is saying we think that the Visual and Performing Arts has a role to play here. I think then it's very important that those people who are the purveyors are the producers of that Arc be there from them from the very opposite of support from Alvin Reese and coordinator Charles. You didn't keep people away from any point anyone could have come and a number of artists are the other what's into their number of people in dual capacity supplanter artist Sarah artist others, you know, many of them yet and many of them are always roll too many of those people who are artists themselves on neck rebelling, you know, I think the artists have come to wreck for a long time. He just backtrack for a second for a long time. We had this whole Image in our society of the Artist as you kind of kind of class sitting up in the Garret nursing the grudge against Society, you know and not being part of the mainstream what we are doing here and this is a small step, you know, but it's a beginning it's me, you're a very very important beginning is saying hey artist, you'll need it by Society your part of the mainstream their things that can do and it's a very beginning stage in the road may be rough now and you going to sweat a little bubble all have to sweat and it's going to be better and it's going to get better year by year. And I think that many artists groups and this isn't enough Behind these kinds of concept and look at the organization's of artists are very much for this, you know. Both ways. Either the thing is is the artist complain that they are not used and then the minute that they are you then they're being used as for the next step. There may be off shoots of this conference at different levels. The process may be slow and deliberate or it may burgeon in light of recent federally stated commitments. The administrators may go to Washington to hand over the strategies to the federal policy makers the federal policy makers may try to get in touch with individual artist. All the groups may head for the private sector in hopes of gaining additional financial support. Clearly those some kind of dialogue has begun and if it proves to be Lively & Dawn cast it will not easily be ignored and if a specific role for the Arts and Urban Development failed the surface at this week's National Conference, at least the search is underway as indicated in this final thought by colonists Neil Pierce. The Arts are not the sole solution, but we are now coming to recognize them as an important part of any solution like Grace and ancient Christian terms the Arts come to as always as an undeserved gift from the inspiration to others. And now I think they can be a gift. That is an indispensable Catalyst for neighborhood and City rebirth. I'm Nancy fusions technical assistance for this program by John lampland and Linda Marie broadcast coverage of the National Conference on the role of the Arts in urban Economic Development made possible in part with the financial assistance of the Fingerhut Corporation.