Isabel and I are going to spend about the next half-hour talking about developments in public attitudes towards nutrition. And before that. However, we want to get one thing very clear. I had been referring to Isabelle earlier as a nutrition specialist various other titles, but is about you mentioned earlier to me that you want to emphasize the title extension specialist. Maybe you can tell me why a lot of people don't realize that we have this Agricultural Extension Service and a number of people like myself who are involved in public education about many areas, which relate to Consumers to the home families in someone and a large portion of my job is devoted to attempting to educate attempting to educate the public about food and nutrition concerns and we're essentially a functioning to extend the knowledge of the universities and knowledge of research scientist and other parts of the country toGeneral public you do not wear a white lab coat all day long time. We're going to take some calls from listeners Isabelle in about 15 minutes because we want to give them a chance to put some questions to you. We hope to cover up quite a few questions. However, in the first part of this discussion, I showed you about to for news items that many of us have heard seen in the past few days and one in particular came up today that I wanted to question you on a new study has shown that Americans are drinking only half as much coffee as they did in 1946 and we are apparently eating considerably less buttermilk candy and eggs and a previous years. However, we are apparently eating more refined sugar mostly in soft drinks. I'm curious as to what you think about those find things that are reported from the Center for Science in the public interest of consumer consumer research group in Washington DC with those findings. Follow what you have seen in the past year.Statistics job Dan about sugar consumption and I have to look at the base year that they use and then go back and check some USDA statistics. It seems to me that I've seen some statistics which would indicate that the consumption of sugar has not increased that Munch much since 1920 now that use 1910 here again, and then I'll be at the also concerned about the various forms in which sugar is use refined and corn syrup products, which is being used. The one thing is definitely true that they stayed here and that's that the increased consult. The other has a tremendous increase in the consumption of soft drinks. There is up like about 5. The past 20 years was accounts for that.I know I guess people don't drink water. It it it it it certainly is the case. I think that going back to the mid-1940s when I was at the age when people start drinking soft drinks says teens Sarah. I think that I used to think of that type of thing as a summertime kind of Beverage however, now people drink this stuff all year round and I would even in climates which can be a bit severe here in the winter. People are still consuming a lot of soft drinks population or demographic trend to a large number of young people could be that the shifting is Shifting increasing the quantity of younger people, but none the less it is the largest it is the product which accounts for the greatest increase consumption of sugar and I think would say one thing soda pop is generally without any nutritional Merritt tonight.Have to stop there. However, if the soda pop is without everybody does need a certain amount of calories required to run but what I say Sodapop people talk about empty calorie food you bet you have no protein you have the carbohydrate of the sugar you would have no vitamins and minerals there. He was strictly getting calories from from sucrose now based on that information from the Center for Science in the public interest. You think that we are generally a healthier population as a result of those trends that you see less butter and eggs being consumed apparently less whole milk being consumed is that plywood I would think that the client is serious because there's a certain segment of the population who do not get adequate intakes of calcium. The decline in the in the consumption of butter is is as compared to 1910 is attributable to a couple ofThe increase in in margarine availability this whole business of relationship of diet to coronary heart disease which by certain segments of the food industry. I have said that if you if you start consuming vegetable margarine, the sooner you won't have heart disease has all this is all farfromsubtle. Believe me when I said that controversy has been raging on for 20 years. A lot of the treatment of coronary heart disease has been based on a reduction in saturated fats in the diet reduction considering coffee and cholesterol content of the diet and the hypothesis remains unproven know that's your opinion and apparently the opinion of a good share of members of the academic community and the ocean is attributable to the same for the same factor people if you ask somebody what is it? What is it? What foods should I not eat in order to control cholesterol? They'll say eggs. Now there are some people whoNaughty texts to do have high serum cholesterol level 2 are very sensitive to any increase cholesterol in the diet are there was some something on the television news program this morning. So many sporty next week. Has it extremely low serum cholesterol level. So, you know, you're there a genetic factors that a lot of people don't realize that are playing this thing in the popular press and magazines on newsstands that we hear over television and radio is telling us that these highly saturated fat diets or Diet include lots of eggs or whatever you just plain bad for us because of the coronary heart disease problem because of other problems cholesterol levels in the blood. What do you think is the quality of information we are getting and in before I hear the answer to that question. I guess I should cite one other news item that will allow you to to respond to that question. That is that apparently the federal government spends according to this news item about 70 million dollars a year to inform the public about theTrue and we've got all sorts of other sources of nutrition information from the books written by people who study nutrition. What is the quality of information you're getting to thing to report you read. This particular news release says it says that there is that the information is very bad. I know that there are some Publications which are distributed by the federal government. For example, we don't buy them and we don't bring them into the state. We think we have our own stuff that's better. I guess when I look at that figure 70 million dollars. I wonder if included in that the federal money that is spent at the state level for Publications, but it is it is a rather staggering figure in many cases. The information is not aimed at the appropriate audience about the investigators found that nutrition Publications intended for the general public and low income under educated citizens are written at upper high school and college reading levels. Now, that kind of makes me angry.Cuz we do have a specific series of Publications in Minnesota. I have been involved with some of them for which was once a national awards that are aimed at 4th grade level reading ability that Ruffles my fax the information that you and your colleagues have prepared. It's not on newsstands generally isn't it's not a places where a lot of people congregate in can get to or is that not know that that that is the case then you really have to realize that these materials are available. You either have to write to the bulletin room over and coffee Hall another very good source of free information is a County extension office. Now, we've got all these Urban offices to and in the in the metropolitan area catalog of Publications that they have available and I would wager that many people don't realize what they could get free of charge can the public but it anyway,Birthday about the quality of the nutrition information we seem to have a raging controversy and within the nutrition Community as to just how the nutrition messages should go. And as I was mentioning to you just this week we have taken place over in Minneapolis annual meetings at the society for nutrition education and our keynote speaker was John my a president of tough widely syndicated nutrition, Miss cetera, and he said that he feels the reason that nutritionist I having difficulty getting your messages to the public and having the public believe them is because they're not complex enough. The message is a too simplistic then later on in the program. We going we listen to advertising people opinion-makers, you know, if the people who've written up the jingles it roll through your head with you want some cfp. They're not they tell us iMessages have to be simple. Keep it simple. Keep it stupid ham of this message through to the public and the Dilemma isWhat are we to do because as you have said apparently the complex messages are getting through information in their writings is erroneous. For example a name the information in her book. She has the woman who was originally trained as a nutritionist has the ability to goes into the literature reaches conclusions that were never intended to be reached by the people who did the research rights about enzymes about enzyme Pathways a lot of complex chemistry in these books for the public because it's so complicated the public believe but is she doing what she doing a disservice by writing this the dietary treatments for diseases where people should have beenStarting positions. They were actually dangerous recommendations there many recorded and documented instances where when confronted by people from the medical community from nutrition Community to back down on some of the statements in her book. She recommended massive doses of a fat soluble vitamins vitamin A which can cause problems you can have the storage of these vitamins and symptoms mimicking brain tumors. For example high doses of these things for children. I don't know anybody that I would consider to be a legitimate nutritionist who would recommend her writings to the public we can perhaps get some questions on that a bit later from a few of the listeners. Now, I must move quickly here. Here's another study that consumers probably could benefit at the expense of farmers under a proposal to let processor Salvage meat scraps now discarded with carcass bones of cattle and Hogs and U of I you and I have certainly talked about this issue beforeWe can hardly agree on it on a category on a title for this deboned meat mechanically Depot. Yes, in any case the other from ground bone tissue from ground bone in any case study involves a plan whereby mechanically deboned meat Salvage mixture as it is called would contain finely ground bits of bone. You want to call it that would be about the size of the meeting out. The savings comes in here one alternative calls were up to 20% of processed meat products including ground meat would use this mechanically deboned meat consumers might see the prices of these items to climb as much as but with 30 cents a pound if all of those savings were passed along through the under that option.Consumers could handle have an annual savings at meat counters of almost 2 billion dollars, perhaps more study found that livestock producers might come out on the short end now I'll ask you to make sense of all of that for us. What is this mechanically deboned meat processing example, if you have a turkey on Thanksgiving you cut all the meat you can off the turkey after it's cooked. There is still need that's attached to the carcass that you can get off. Now people sometimes make turkey carcass soup to try to get this off during the cooking process. But basically what you were talking about is the meat that's still stuck to the bones. That is salvageable. They're very special machines to do this and I think that it can it certainly is a wholesome substance the amount of bone that's in there. I unlike a cartoon that was in the New York Times is something which showed somebody with a hot dog in the show this enormous V. This is not what it's going to be. It's going to beNot that much in there, but the big e f is Will these fit Willie savings be passed on to the consumer. Why wouldn't say well products of that sort of made by Meat Packers on the basis of what is cost at least cost formulation. And what is in the weiner of company a one-day is probably different than it was a week ago and it's all based upon the cost of the product in the marketplace and I guess if there would be some type of guarantees given that these pretzel prices of these products would decrease and the consumers would know which products were made with this mechanically deboned meat or whatever. It's to be called. I see no reason for such products not to be marketed the livestock producers might lose some money and they might lose money.Tricia sore that this mechanically reclaimed need is dangerous and I from my point of view and from what I have read would say, this is not the case and meet now as I said earlier we were going to take some calls from listeners will get to that in just a moment. I think I'll give out. The telephone number right now Isabel will let some callers get online. The number in the Twin Cities call area is 22115 50221 1550. If you have a question for Isabel woke was an extension specialist in foods and nutrition from the University of Minnesota listeners outside the Twin Cities, but living with in Minnesota can call us toll-free, and that number is 800-652-9700 806 529700 as a toll-free call listeners in the Twin Cities area can call us at 221-1552 to 11550 now.I have a whole set of questions from a panel of NPR experts. Mostly people from the front office here who I told you were coming. I told them and that they could put you any question they wanted and we have a sampling. First of all, why can't there be such a thing as a safe egg do eggs vary in the quality of their nutritional value of an egg with lower cholesterol. That would not be as dangerous to cholesterol levels or whatever. Well, first of all we touched on one thing that there is indeed some controversy over the relationship of dietary cholesterol and cholesterol in the coronary heart disease and I would say that you know, if if if a person is somebody who has been put on a low cholesterol diet by a physician for good reason, they probably had better go to those egg substitutes.And I think that that that that gets into another realm of somebody with a personal a personal problem with a particular food product. I guess when you talked about safe sex, I thought you were talking about microbiological safety of eggs or something to that effect. I was thinking more about the cholesterol level. Another question is changing the labeling or grading more appropriately of meat that is something that has been discussed at length. Apparently some people think that meat that is of me that is marble for has Fadden in the meat that is normally labeled Prime top grade is given the top grade and called them considered the best meat. There has been some discussion of changing the grading. Do you think that's a good idea what it be better in the grading laws which allowed categories of meat for example that had previously been us good to be moved up to you as choice and someone from a nutritional point if you what it means is you're gettingBoiling meat in this meeting has been moved up a grade and less fat and you know the nutrition that we want to get from me is in the lean and it's not in the fat and not in the marbling now, they heavily marbled meat when it's cooked May taste more tender because of the increase fat is distributed through the tissue, but if you watching your calories, this may not be the best meat for you. Cuz remember where were the nutrition is in in the lean meat and I know I can remember attending some White House the consumer representation meetings, which were held in Chicago a couple of years ago and it really distressed me to listen to these are these really severely overweight consumers. Who were they are two or three of them very vocal complaining about the fact that the quality of the meat wasn't going to be any good that they were going to be ripped off and if anybody could benefit have benefited by changing the grading laws, it would have been these two or three.Call and get in right now. They'll get a busy signal and we'll get to some of those listener questions that will forgo the other questions from rmpr panel of experts for the moment, but we would turn to them and just a little bit you may want to put on those headphones and we'll go to the first question. Good afternoon. Isabelle wolf is listening in degrees. In other food dishes containing ground meat that I feel is going to break my teeth. So I don't know whether or not or whether it's just carelessness you had any comment on now. Yes, I've experienced some of the same type of thing myself occasionally and this really is related to what is carelessness on the party.Butcher shop who's ever out there with that band. Saw you sometimes find chunks of meat on on steaks where you know where the the cut has gone to the Bone. Now. This is not the size particles that you would find in the Canik Lee deboned meat as Dan and said that it's more the size of salt and pepper grains. I guess you should complain if you buy anything like that. Maybe they need to clean up their act in the back room at that market. Alright, thanks for that question will go to the next listener who has a question. Good afternoon. Isabel is listening. I'm wondering if there is any books that are available in understanding of the body in the food and nutrients that it needs in.There are a couple of books that I would like to recommend that I don't know what this is going to be construed as a commercial but there is a book out called the realities of nutrition which is written by a Ronald Deutsch Deutsch. He's also written a book out called the Family Guy to Better Health and Better Living. I think a better nutrition now, I think you could probably even find these books at your local library a journalist from California who is perhaps one of the most popular nutrition riders in the country and he's somebody who has works with the train neutral. I would describe as legitimate nutrition Community. He happens even to be here at these meetings that I mentioned earlier and has a very highly-skilled journalist. Who's also got the right the right nutrition information in his writings the realities of nutritionist the Family Guy.Calvin better food. It was it's so it has that has been out to several years and was available as a paperback. Yes. I have a question in relation to milk and cholesterol build-up. I like to know if it has been determined the milk and milk products help to block the buildup of cholesterol. Well, I'm not familiar with with any research which would support that statement, but I would have to go back and check it seems to me that I was recently added some meetings a year ago where there was some discussion of this but I am not familiar with any specific component in milk, which would in any way be involved in a breaking down arthrosclerotic plaques is really what you talkin about skim milk whole milk any distinction you make as to which is Alexa a better for people that would de preps cause them a few other health problems or and would be as nutritious as related to the difference in the quantity of fat in the product. They're depending upon your caloric needs expenditures and someone some people be better off to drink skim milk then to drink 4% milk and again, there has been some thought and again, I would say consult your pediatrician that young children. Perhaps should not be given skin skim milk give it that again. I would I would check with your pediatrician on this cuz this is sort of a new area in a pediatric nutrition questions waiting. Good afternoon. Hello. I wanted to ask you about this problem of cholesterol in eggs sometime back. I'd read an article. I am not sure the source anymore. I think it was Prevention magazine for him. But anyways, they mention that eggs are also a good source of lecithin, which is an emulsifier which keeps the cholesterol from quag ulating. Could you tell me a story. That is true? Well, I guess I'd like to say something since we decided one book as a good source of nutrition information. I guess I'd like to cite a magazine which I consider to be a very poor source of nutrition information and that you just named it right there. In fact, one of the most outstanding nutritionist in the country of dr. Victor Herbert from Columbia University has said that he considered that magazine to be a main source of nutrition and misinformation in the country. Now eggs eggs contain less than and less than functions in many food products as an emulsifier, but they has been no demonstrated no scientific research that shows that it's taking lecithin in your diet willing anyway emulsify any arthrosclerotic plaques that you may have, you know in your body or in your arteries again, I think that you have to evaluate your egg consumption on the bay. Basis of your serum cholesterol levels and do this in conjunction with your physician. I know that there are products with your promoted in in health food stores that sell lecithin granules and someone and incidentally it's a big by-product in the soybean industry. So there are a lot of people in Minnesota who would like to believe this but there is no evidence that the taking me is lecithin granules willing. Anyway, I help prevent any kind of Korra coronary artery disease coronary heart disease. You mentioned that you thought Adele Davis books for more of a disservice than a service and I'm wondering if you could reconsider that statement in spite of the fact that you did bring to the attention of very many people diets were perhaps on the on the borderline of the importance of vitamins and general perhaps some cases that she sides are erroneous misconstrued or her research isn't so good, but I'm wondering if well, no, I don't because I guess I have behind me a lot of writing sitar in a written by legitimate nutritionist throughout the country who feel that that we have to make recommendations to the public. It's essentially are professional responsibility to help people delineate and select books which are good sources of information and why you Cuz she has his save people who are suffering deficiencies Etc. That's a kind of broad statement without any kind of clinical evidence to support what you say and I would be very happy. If you want to call me over the university to send you some information which will will perhaps support the position that I have taken on on the writings of the individual and incidentally they would be many many more people. I could name. I don't want to single her out their ass lose people out there. Is it from the National Weather Service Office in St. Cloud? Some funnel clouds have been reported in Northern Cass County in Minnesota at about noon today. The sheriff's office at Walker received a report of a funnel cloud over the Eastern and Southern portions of Leech Lake and indeed weather radar indicates a small cell in the Leech Lake area that is moving towards the Northeast about 25 to 35 miles per hour. So Persons in the northeastern portion of Cass County Minnesota should remain on the alert now for possible further development in the next one to two hours for some dangerous tornado activity. This activity will be watched by the National Weather Service and we'll have some additional statements later on should they be necessary regarding the development of that weather now, there is the chance that there would be some strong damaging winds hail and such a sociated with that. So if you experience any of that if it's raining and blowing in your area call the National Weather Service by means of calling your nearest law enforcement agency call the Sheriff's Office the police and they'll report it to the National Weather Service Office that's in Cass County in north central Minnesota. Now, we have other questioners waiting. We'll take the next one. Good afternoon. Isabelle wolf is listening. Yes, I wanted to follow up on the last question that was asked about Adele Davis the kinds of books. The one does find in the health food store like Adele. Davis's book Linda Clark. I think that that's what you're talking about it that right. Let me put it this way. If you were to go into say your average health food store and you were to look at the kind of books that they have on their Shelf. And if you would be able to come to my office and look at the kind of books that I have on my shelves you would find that I have some of the books that they have all together on one shelf because these would be books that we would not recommend whereas they don't have any of the kind of books that I would recommend to the public in on their shop. And I think what reason for this is that are the types of books that I would recommend to the public and not necessarily promoting the sale of various types of special nutritional substances of supplements. And of course, it only makes sense that if one it is in a store in the in a business operation where the profit is being gain from the sale of substances you are going to have materials are the promote the use of these substances like going to the paint store and asking the the paint salesman if you should repaint the living room and the problem that the public has an extremely difficult time in differentiating. Legitimate from non legitimate sources of nutrition information. I would suggest that if any of you out there have bought a lot of nutrition books look in and see what are the credentials of these people. I do these people who are Brittany Stokes do they have degrees in nutrition science, are they affiliated with University or for example, in the case of these books that I recommended? Is there is there a forward in there by somebody who's an eminent nationally-known nutritionist questions now and hopefully get two more questions on nutrition good afternoon. Isabel wolf is listening. I've had the question along and I'm not sure if I wish to ask it or not because your answer might be some unpredictable based on all your credentials that yourself and the other people people that you've been supporting. Do you have in mind concerning health food and natural foods and so forth. But anyway, how do you feel? Whole grain Breads and dishes in comparison to what's called enriched. White flour bleached bromated white flower with vitamins and so forth bumped into them. I personally from a personal point of you prefer the taste Etc of whole-grain bread products and that we're going to be putting out of publication in a couple of months at the University which will have some very very good whole-grain products if you know directions for making a flat white flour to white-flour certain number of nutrients are removed during the Milling process when the flower is enriched those which have been removed in the greatest amount and the key nutrients that we expect to get from that flower or I added back in the form of enrichment. Okay. These nutrients will be utilized by your body in the very same way that the Nutrients that were originally in the flower would be utilized a lot of people who are promoting the use of totally unrefined flour would say for example of there are 26 nutrients to move during the Milling process only a 210 added back but these ones that are not added back or added are any really essentially infinitesimal quantities from the point of view of another thing that's been said of all the promoted to the public is fiber. They've even got Kitty cereals out. Now, they have fought you know of a Viber added. However, you will get it increase fiber from the use of whole grain products. And I think that the thing that people should be warned not to buy is to buy a product that made with white flour that has been unenriched that really is the problem in a lot of products made by some of the local Bay neighborhood bakeries and someone do not use The add back the nutrients that the B vitamin c i n in the enrichment process and we are one of the few states in the countries that do not have a requirement that all white bed bread products be made with enriched flour. What is the bleached issue about Racine that Tuan flower packages? What is that refer to? Okay. Well now there is a bleaching process to which flower has to be subjected to bring about an aging and change in the wheat protein essentially a lot of consumers now don't want this and so is it the major milling companies? Of course the health food stores originally had the unbleached flour. Now the milling companies have unbleached flour. We're used to be told that it don't cost a lot of money to have this flowers sitting around aging naturally bleaching naturally, but apparently they must have found some way to circumvent this it is available. Now, this does not have any significant effect on the nutritional value of the product that bleached or unbleached the functional properties of of the of the flower. Waiting we're going to try to get as many as possible will take the next one. Good afternoon. Isabelle wolf is listening medicine in the medical profession Troy nutrition. I am over 60 years old and a visit to a doctor where nutrition or Diet was emphasized as a possible cure and yet there is a new science now starting commencing that is speaking to the fact that some people can die from the penicillin shot bee sting other than that affected but it while we share commonalities there are things this individual about it this are you know, our fingerprints And therefore we cannot say that this is perhaps the clueless to buy eggs and cholesterol harmful for one person and not another I think this is a whole new field most of the last 20 years since I've become aware of the problem. My daughter-in-law's and Earth. I live next door to a dietitian her husband comes home and tells how the food is shoved into the waste can Optimum Nutrition Center here in North Minneapolis that feeds our kids our lunches. The food is very unattractive are the kids turn to the coke machines in the candy bars instead of the fact that Sugar consumption has not risen may be true, but we are not getting a fresh nutritious food that might counteract the bad effects of a high sugar diet. More hours into the training of our doctors and are dietitians my daughter-in-law and the girl next door are typical electric kid stuck on a soda pop and fill up on cookies. I mean she is perhaps one of the best trained of people in nutrition and certainly has had as much nutrition in undergraduate degree. As anybody would have if this dietitian is not practicing what she has been taught. I think that's unfortunate because I think somebody in such a profession does have something of a responsibility to a put into practice. So what she should be preaching The lack of nutrition knowledge in the medical curriculum is a problem. And I think you've got to realize that everybody in in in many different fields feel that the doctor should know of physician should have more training in this that special 10 someone and I know that this has been is being dealt with I personally from my point of view feel that the nutrition training of physician should probably take place at the undergraduate level. They have certainly great knowledge of functions of nutrients and someone but when it gets down to the more practical part of dealing with patients and giving patients Down nutrition information, sometimes it's it's lacking. It is a problem. As I said with that we're concerned about there are have been an increasing number of continuing education programs run for Physicians by the medical school at the University run on nutrition. I was attended one of these is this winter. So I think it is a problem that people We're in a position to do something about this are well aware of we have time for just two more brief questions Isabel and that's a warning to our callers who are on the line right now in others were thinking of calling in we're running out of time for this portion of our program. Will we have time for two more quick questions will take the next one. Good afternoon Isabel wolf is listening worried that chemicals and hormones things like DDs stand to concentrate in those needs and he's particular pregnant women in long-term effect. Want to come in please. Well at the only the only organ in which any GES was ever found what was in the in the liver and it was very odd the concentrations of you know, several parts per billion. Which is a really extremely small. I I think that perhaps this would be a question that you might want to call me back in my office and I'll get you some information on I certainly would not stop eating liver on the basis of the very very small quantities of d e s that has ever been found in liver or other chemicals for you have time for one more question. Good afternoon. Isabel is listening to others are more information later. Well, I guess I'd have to go back and look but obviously these are all forms of of eye in the prison-door can be present in dietary supplements the importance, of course, it's at the anus and the Ferris State and I gave you would have got him to go into the literature and see if I could find that these alternative iron supplements you're intending to take about I'm thinking when I was pregnant. I was told by the nurse midwives not to take anything other than ferrous gluconate. Can you tell me what what is ferrous chloride Francis? I tried to look at my sister Ferris of Ferris all to fumaric acid. If you know what it is. It's an organic inorganic acid or that's that's the salt of well, it's I guess we don't have time to try to have a little mini chemistry course here and that would basically be what would need to to describe these products. And if you don't mind your phone number to where people can expect call back this week's session is intense and I want to thank the listeners very much for the quality of their questions and also for spending time holding waiting to ask their question Isabel is an extension specialist in foods and Attrition at the University of Minnesota or last name is spelled w o l f by the way, and she is in the department of Food Science and nutrition at the University of Minnesota. That's the department of Food Science and nutrition that is in St. Paul. Zip code is 55108 Saint Paul 55108. Our telephone number at her office is 376 34013. 763-4019 area code is 612 so you can put your questions in writing or over the phone to Isabel and I'm sure she and her colleagues will be eager to provide you with any information.