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Proponents and opponents of the controversial high-voltage power line under construction in western and central Minnesota debate the health and safety issues, the economic impact, and other issues. The forum debate was held in the Great Hall. Participants included power line pro¬testers Gloria Woida and John Tripp, Don Jacobsen of the United Power Asso-ciation, environmental expert Dan McConnon, and students Gaylen Schaubroeck and Catherine McGinnis.

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34 Rural Electric cooperatives receive all of their power from either United power or cooperative Power Association. The outcome of this project will determine the price they will pay for power in the future. It will also be the determining factor, which will decide if there will be adequate power available for our 1 million consumer. Members are 34 Rural Electric Systems geographically cover 2/3 of rural, Minnesota. We are true cooperatives non-profit Enterprises. owned and governed by rural Minnesota people Are Boards of directors are made up of farmers small businessman and retired persons? Take a little closer look at need. The John milhorn director of the Minnesota Energy agency says that and I quote. CPA in UPS generate only a portion of the power used by the cooperatives they Supply They have a total generating capacity of 423 megawatts in 1975. They had a peak demand of 880 megawatts. UPA and CPA provide less than half of the energy required by their consumer members CPA and UPA need a new source of electricity on quote. If the transmission line were to be abandoned this would not excuse the cooperatives of the cost already expended on the project. The cooperatives would be forced to purchase needed power if it were available at very high cost. The Outlook would be a very sharp increase in electric cost with a likelihoods of brownouts and blackouts. UPN CPA are experiencing a documented growth of 7 to 10% a year. Aspiring is spiraling increase in electrical consumption simply means we cannot continue to use more and more power without providing generating plants or transmission line. Farmers and others in rural Minnesota cannot continue to have electricity for irrigation heating air conditioning and appliances without the addition of these new facilities. The line is needed now to make up for existing deficiencies. Not expect a deficiency sometime in the future. What about health? Many of the directors of UPA CPA member coops along with legislators in the Press have visited direct current transmission lines and test stations which are already in operation. We walked underneath these lines. We've listened we've asked questions of experts we talked with people who live nearby. We've also read material and direct current transmission lines prepared by the federal government. We study direct-current test data. We've discussed wrecker and transmission with Engineers from abroad. Everything points to the fact that direct current transmission lines are safe. Minnesota Environmental Quality board chairman, mr. Peter Vanderpool and then summed up the feelings of the state when he said quote. We believe that a great deal of misinformation is being circulated about the effects of power lines and many confusing charges that have no factual basis are being made on quote. Courts in Minnesota and North Dakota have ruled favorably and Powerline cases which in part have dealt with health issues. We can in all sincerity say we feel these lines are safe. Opposition members like to say two studies in their health effects attack. First is a Russian study done several years ago based on a study of alternating currents substations in the 500000 and 765000 volt class and must be pointed out that these facilities are substations AC and not DC line. scientist from around the world have questions or Russian study results describe and Soviet paper have not been duplicated anywhere else in the Free World. The Federal Environmental Protection Agency is study. The Russian paper in his come to the conclusion that and I caught from a scientific point of view that leaves much to be desired. A second report protesters like 2.2 is the New York State Hearing testimony of doctors Marino and Becker. They gave testimony which substantiated they said that biological effects on people and animals could be observed under high voltage transmission lines. The hearings in New York wear for I 765 KV alternating current line, which is being built from Canada to New York City. New York Public Service Commission has just concluded its hearings on that line, which is Spencer will years. The administrative law judges who waited through the thousands of pages of testimony of come up with the following comment and I want to quit them. Court amiss recommended decision. It has been demonstrated that doctor Moreno was Reckless and an accurate in his public statements that he exaggerated in his letter to New York Governor carry that he was evasive and argumentative under cross-examination and that he was unable to cite any support by other scientists for his speculations as the biological biological effects from transmission lines. With this background the indications of careless procedures the faulty statistics and unsupported extrapolations from his own experiment make it impossible to place any substantial Reliance on Doctor Marino's scientific research as set forth in this record on quote. Those are very damaging findings. With regard to the quote unquote problem with school buses, which would cross under the direct current line for testers Like the quote from the Minnesota Health Department report on high voltage transmission lines. They point to the report which says school bus stop should not be located on rights-of-way of high voltage transmission lines. They imply that this is true for our DC line. But let's read that Minnesota report in its entirety. It says quote. The board should condition future construction permits for ac lines to require coordination with local school districts to avoid school bus stops on the rights of way possible unquote note. It says AC and not DC. And as for the question of Wildlife and the line, we can of course you were Wildlife would be disrupted during the actual construction of the line, but only during the construction. If the line bothers Wildlife as the protesters say, why did the North Dakota Public Service Commission require us to put a platforms and several the towers in North Dakota? So that Hawks can use them for nesting areas? We have photos of the West Coast DC line showing bird's nest in just a few feet from the energized wires. Seems strange the wildlife which is supposedly so afraid of these lines likes the nest so close, but the myth that these lines are inherent inherently dangerous to anyone who gets near them continues stories about people wearing chains around their ankles the ground them horror stories about Ozone gas and others continue to be heard. All of these allegations were elected looked into by our cooperative and numerous state agencies are not something new. They haven't just been discovered. They been bowled over for several years and all have been found to be without Foundation. This for the statement the landowners rights have been trampled on. Difficult to believe this considering all the hearings in court cases cases held by the state on this transmission line. At the corridor selection stage 12 public information meetings were held in March and April 1975. An additional twelve hearings were held in addition. The citizens committee was set up for the quarter selection process which contained 47 individuals several of who were active in the protest movement at the time a number of people from Pope and Stearns County's served on that Corridor committee including mr. Fuchs who was supposed to have been here tonight. At the route stage a new citizens committee was set up by the state 48 citizens from the area participated in that committee. Again. That was a member of that committee. Many other protesters served on the committee. Also again, there were 12 informational meetings and 12 hearings. The protesters were represented by legal counsel at the certificate of need hearing a legal counsel at the route in quarter selection process thousands of pages of testimony in hundreds of hours, but were spent by the state to Route this line. After CPA and UPA received their certificate the Builder line in June of 1976. We were involved in no less than 25 different Court actions ranging from district courts in Minnesota and North Dakota to the Supreme Court's of Minnesota and North Dakota and the Cooperative has received favorable ruling in all these cases. There were 12 eminent domain hearings covering counties in two states after more than four years of public hearings testimony and court cases. Ronald Court approval was given a 1977 to go ahead and actually build a line in Minnesota. To say that landowners rights were violated after all these hearings in court cases. We believe is totally unrealistic. Since October of 1977 the cost of building the Minnesota section of line has increased by 9 million dollars. This cost is directly related to the protests which have been occurring over the past three or four years. The total project cost is increased by 35 million dollars all attributable to actions and initiatives a protest groups. These costs will have to be passed on to our members. It's a protest continue. These delay cost will increase the project is delayed beyond the commercial operating date of November one 1978. Extra cost will reach $219,000 per day. Easement payments are substantial and Wright County the average amount offered by the cooperatives based on easement appraisals averaged over the whole County amounts to $42,000 per mile in Polk County. The per-mile fee is $29,643 in Stearns County. $33,897. This money plus an annual payment of several hundred dollars personal property taxes paid by UPA on the line to the county and any cup or property damage due to the construction or maintenance of the line are also being paid. The danger and quotes of high voltage DC lines has not been demonstrated neither in Canada, Northern, California. But the danger of forceful confrontations such as we have seen. Have been vividly demonstrated. The escalation of illegal disorder no matter how passionately One Believes In the cause leads ultimately to personal tragedy for those who take part. I thought I'd be important for you here tonight to know some of these facts about the transmission line that you might not have heard before. + - 400 KV direct current transmission line should it must be built Madam chairman. I respectfully submit and then recommend the adoption of the resolution. Thank you. The chair will now recognize George Crocker for 15 minutes against the motion. Thank you. Virgil Fuchs has been mentioned. He was on the citizens committee to decide the route to the line. In the process of the hearings that he attended. He decided that he did not want to be responsible for putting such a monstrosity on anyone's land. Why did you come to that decision? Let's consider first besides we've been hearing + -400 we had an explanation of what + -400 means + -400 means 800000 kilovolts. We have been asked repeatedly by the carpet has to go out to California to see a similar line Bonneville power of Bonneville Bonneville power project power Administration from the West Coast talks about their 800. Align to asking us to go see is a 800 that's please refer to this as what it is. The land that that line crosses is primarily desert the governor was going to go out and look at this fine. As you may recall didn't go out because of mudslides in, Nevada. We're talking about a very populated very productive land. Not a desert. I'd like to focus for a while on on how this line. What is the relation of this line to the overall energy policy that our country is pursuing this relates varied directly to the question who is building this line. Okay. We hear UPAC paupack. Do not exist in a vacuum. their part have utilities industry. They are little brothers in the utilities industry. utilities industry is attempting to centralize the sources of energy for this Society. to the point But they will also be able to control the people if you control the energy you control the people, how are they doing this? huge massive centrally-located generation facilities connected buy extra high voltage transmission lines The reason these massive generation facilities are built. out in the countryside because a very poisonous how poisonous are they? Well, they're talking about building a power plant Park and its pee is talking about building a power plant part in southern part of the state of Minnesota. It will have a total capacity when it's completed a 3200 megawatts. Inside of one year and these are figures from dr. Bradley a physics professor at the Stables with office inside of one year. It will be over 530 tons of Highly toxic chemicals and elements admitted without controls into the environment from this plant. these elements include arsenic fluorine drink lead copper 5 lb a day of mercury vapor a ton a year of uranium Festus from the generation plants Similar pollutants will be coming out of the plants in North Dakota and Wyoming and Montana has the talking about building many many many many plants out there. They're going to take away the land from the Indians do using very regressive labor policies for the mining. There there in N. The crazy is what it amounts to. So who's building this line? Utilities industry the doing this at such a time when alternatives to exist and it is possible for communities to become more or less self-sufficient in their energy needs. There are alternatives are solar Alternatives there wind alternate. Is there methane conversion corn alcohol? All of these things are available they exist. Definitely cnsp talking about solar energy, but do we seek a satellite with microwave? Crazy, it's again. It's something that you have to have a very deep pocket. If you're going to be able to afford it. You have to be a very large corporation to avoid those kinds of capital Investments. They control the energy they control the people. Alternatives to exist Alternatives which are much much more efficient. The efficiency of these large coal plants for example is about 38% The efficiency of nuclear plants of with CPA is Junior partner and Tyrone. Is less than 1% and we all know about the pollutants from nuclear plants. the deadly forever So why why is it why is it that that it is not possible for us to have these these Alternatives the smaller coal plants smaller oil plants. solar energies of one sort in the other indirect solar It's much more efficient to clean their renewable there safe. They reliable. But the rich can't control. And that's why we're building the Underwood plant. That's why we're building attempting to build. Don't ever build it this power line. By the way, they have already made plans. We know that there are plans to be running two more lines along the same quarter right next to the line is going through if they get their way the center of Minnesota is going to look like a highway for power lines. But we have out in the center of Minnesota right now. Is it War? Is a non-violent War? Primarily on our part It's not very non-violent. To my way of thinking. I have a very sore head from last Friday still on the Troopers part. The violence that is happening is the violence of trying to run this monstrosity on top of people. That's the real violence. The violence is by calling it legal. I mean in a way in a way we are I'm amazed. I'm amazed that nobody has gotten killed at this point. I mean, what's the traditional response? You know you even here in the jokes. What does a farmer do when somebody stealing his watermelon? You got a load of Buckshot. That's the tradition. That hasn't happened. Why hasn't it happened? Well, because people are becoming very wise. Are the types of tactics that can work in the types of tactics that can't work we're learning was struggling but we're getting there. We're learning through the course of this war. It is much like the Vietnam War. corporations versus the people the center of Minnesota we have the war in Vietnam come home. Vietnam they still have many struggles. But the people at least do not have the corporation's of the Free World free for American exploitation. By the way, we do not have them breathing down their throats anymore when the struggles over the people will not have a line breathing down their throats. I am against the line. Thank you. The chair will now recognize Dan mcconnon speaking for 15 minutes for the motion. My colleagues have already fully addressed the question of the need for the transmission line and the project in general. I would like to add. Very briefly a few remarks about the current status of the project. Construction of the first unit of the Coal Creek Station is on schedule and will be ready for testing this summer and for commercial operation in November of this year. Despite the alleged poisons. That mr. Crocker says will be emitted from the plant. We have received all necessary permits for the construction and we anticipate receiving all necessary permits from the government for the operation of the plant. The direct current transmission line is virtually complete in North Dakota and construction is underway in Minnesota the two conversion facilities, which cost over $45 each are virtually complete and ready for testing. I should note that the direct current line is the only transmission line which can be used to transmit the power generated at the Coal Creek Station in to Minnesota. Relying on all of the licenses permits and certificates that we have received from the federal government and the states of Minnesota and North Dakota. We have let almost 300 contracts totaling over 650 million dollars. We have acquired over 99% of the needed right of way for the transmission lines. We have deposited over four and a half million dollar in Minnesota courts or payments of right of way. There are over 1,700 men working on this project in North Dakota and three hundred men working on the project in Minnesota over 2,000 men exclusive of Cooperative Personnel are presently employed in the construction of this project the contracts as I mentioned total over 650 million dollars and they all have substantial penalty and escalation Clauses for delays. All of these cost for construction right-of-way and financing are paid for by the 1 million citizens who get their electricity from CPA and UPA member cooperatives. There are no stockholders whose Dividends are reduced when higher costs are encountered for Rural cooperatives. All costs are passed on directly to the members of scribers. Between April 1975 and may 1977 CPA UPA and the CU project were thoroughly reviewed and six separate administrative proceedings under the laws. They just sighted over 30 public information meetings were held throughout Central Minnesota regarding the location of the Beast transmission lines over 50 Public hearings were held for the purpose of taking testimony pursuant to the legislature's Mandate that the policy of the PowerPlant citing act the broad spectrum citizen participation / 340 Witnesses introduced over 500 exhibits and testified for almost six thousand pages of transcripts. Well over 90% of these Witnesses were members of the public with a balance being state agency Witnesses and Witnesses for the cooperatives. The claims you are hearing this evening from the opponent's may be new to you, but we have heard them now for almost 3 years. Notwithstanding missing transcripts. The permits were issued by all agencies based on the hearing officer's recommendations, who course was present at each of these hearings and heard personally all of the testimony. The results of these proceedings was the issuance of all the permits needed to build a project in Minnesota following the issuance of these permits. There were nine lawsuits challenging the state agency decisions the Minnesota Supreme Court Consolidated, the lawsuits and appointed a special panel of three district court judges to hear them on July 5th, 1977. The special three-judge panel unanimously upheld the decision of the state agencies in the cases. I just cited. On September 30th 1977 the Minnesota Supreme Court unanimously upheld the decision of the three-judge panel and US of the state agencies there has been full and final judicial review by this court by the states courts of the state agency decisions made under the Minnesota Environmental Policy Act the PowerPlant citing Act and the Minnesota Energy Act. The CU project has had full and fair hearing under the laws of this state. The public has had ample opportunity to participate and voice their objections opponents to the project appeared in Force at every hearing and were represented by legal counsel or made statements directly state agencies have carefully weighed the evidence presented in opposition to the project and despite much vocal opposition issued all necessary permits. 2D sea lions exist in the United States won on the west coast known as a Pacific Coast inner tie and I might add that this line crosses all types of land uses including agricultural land. And one in North Dakota and Minnesota. That's right. I said Minnesota. We presently have an operating DC line in the state that comes from a power plant located about 30 miles from the Coal Creek Station. There are two DC lines in operation in Canada. One of which is longer and larger than ours. This line also crosses all types of land uses including agricultural land. The electrical characteristics of our line will be similar to those of the Pacific coast inner tie about which a great deal of information is available. This information was introduced as evidence in the public hearings on the DC line to refute allegations that the transmission line will produce electric static Fields, electromagnetic fields and will emit air pollutants, which will be hazardous to hell. Based on all the testimony and exhibits at these public hearings the conclusion of the Emmy QB is that there is no credible evidence to support the claim of adverse health effects, the meq be concluded in our direct current Carter case that it has not been shown that significant harm will result from the levels of ozone produced by the line. The meq be concluded that the induced magnetic fields associated with a direct current line will not significantly threaten the Comfort or safety of man. The meq be found at the direct current line will not pose any threats to the safety of man in their words the high voltage transmission line and Associated facilities will have no adverse effects on the health or safety of humans. The special panel of three district court judges appointed by the Minnesota Supreme Court. Said and I quote the meq C factual findings are supported by substantial evidence and are not arbitrary and capricious and therefore should be affirmed. It should be noted that at the time this three-judge panel had the nine lawsuits before it it gave the attorneys for the opponents an opportunity to present the judges with any new or additional evidence. They had backing up their claim of adverse health effects evidence, which hadn't even been presented at the public hearings. Not a single party came forward with new evidence all the scare statements and horror stories. You have heard or exaggerations based on effects from AC transmission lines effects. I might add which are easily eliminated with proper design and construction. Nobody likes transmission lines. But if one must be built in ours must be built than a DC line is better than AC line. The effects from the DC line are inherently less than from an equivalent size AC line because of the constant nature of the DC voltage and the lower Corona losses as I said before no credible evidence of adverse health effects. The opposition of our line has advanced which can be critically reviewed by the scientific community. The chair would like to remind for members the questions may be asked after all speakers have finished. The chair will now recognize for 15 minutes, Gloria loida speaking against the motion. so let's start off with the health and safety and I'll be using the book that the state of Minnesota themselves rant and just as of a few months ago published and it's called public health and safety effects of high voltage overhead transmission lines, Minnesota Department of Health. And if you notice it does not specify AC or DC on the cover. It just says a high voltage overhead transmission line. This is what the state says. There is a need for a comprehensive research program to determine if specific adverse biological effects will be induced in human be in humans exposed to the line. That's what the state says some individuals. It says here will be aroused from sleeping or prevented from sleeping by the noise produced by these lines during inclement weather and it also goes on to say the company should be required to supply drag chains at the request of adjacent land owners who operate vehicles on the ride away now, I don't believe we should call the state of Minnesota a liar on that. It says here the utility should ground all fixed objects, which would yield a shot current in an excessive 1 milliamp know when the easement man came around the area? I his name was mr. Dennis Russell. We miss over at our neighbors Farm math myself Walt and Susie Wolff their son their daughter and another neighbor. The daughter is married, so I would not she's not a young child. She's a married woman and the Sun is now taking over the father's operation of the farm if there's going to be anything left of it. And I asked specifically. Do we have to ground are steel buildings? And he says yes all steel buildings must be grounded. You must carry a grounding bar for your Machinery in case you still allowed under the line and you cannot refuel under it. So, you know when they tell you something like that you start wondering. Gee, whiz? Hey, what about my kids? And what about me? And I really don't care to go out there one day and find Matt fried like a pancake and it also goes on here to say the company should notify School District. That buses should not pick up or discharge passengers under overhead transmission lines. Well, we heard that referred to a little earlier and remember this is the health study book that the state of Minnesota themselves put out. So I know I guess your kind of supposed to believe a few things. I would like to leave this site with you to that the man who did this study no longer work for the health department of Minnesota. Utilities it continues on here should be required to notify pacemaker manufacturers and cardiologist the lines potential for interfering with the operation of pacemakers. So that's what we say about health and safety and so far. This is what the state of Minnesota said and I as you noticed I didn't even refer to Ozone. But there was a problem down around Meeker County and they are the state of Minnesota said we'll tell you what we'll do some readings have some computer readouts down and Meeker County. So there was some money appropriated to the University of Minnesota. And they did the ozone studies and Meeker County. I forget just exact spot but we did get ahold of some of the computer readouts and in July via standard violated. The normal standard was violated on the ozone level 42 times in the month of July. Not remember the line isn't even there yet. So it's a lot of things to think about. Let's go on here to a few of those safety facts. We'll talk a little bit about irrigation. We have a 10 Tower Center irrigation pivot system on our farm. It's terrible. That means you can irrigate 160 acres and towed over and your gate the other 160. It's powered by diesel motor deutz engine. We do not use electricity on on this system. It's very expensive. It's much cheaper to run it with diesel. Now that shoots very high the water. according to a study that we got a hold of put out by for firefighters complements of Otter Tail Power Company they stated that communicare. But anyway, I haven't my head that a voltage of 33,000 volts with an inch and 1/8 nozzle which would be like for you and Gun Center irrigation pivot. You have to stay away from a 33000 volt line approximately 40 feet. Now. It's very hard to try to irrigate under those type of Standards. I I know that they say that irrigation the irrigating system should be grounded, but just exactly how much you would I I don't know and I don't think utilities know either. and also there is the problem of the the pools being in the way of of the turn of the irrigation system. There's also that problem but I guess maybe they say it can be eliminated and about the only way I really could figure out how to get those Towers out of the way of an irrigation system would be to possibly have utilities furnished us with helicopters and skyhooks so that when it would turn they could be, you know lifted and then put back down again. So I don't know any other way you really could get the type of pulls out of out of the way. They're large there 45 feet in the base. They're very tall. They're very huge. They stand approximately 150 to 183 ft High out North Dakota some of the highest one so far. I've been out there many times. I've talked to people out there many times. So I also know what Going on out in the state of North Dakota. Believe it or not. So then now we want to talk just a little bit here about the cost. Okay, what's that costing us the farmer? It's costing us our way of life. And that's very sad. That's been on the farm for quite a number of years. He stayed on it with his dad. When his mother when he was 12 years old his mother died of cancer. And you know, those were hard days. We still have hard days now, but those were harder days in order to hold on to that farm. He worked out days and worked at home Night by taking an old kerosene lantern and tying it on an old Putt-Putt John Deere. You know those kind I don't think they make them anymore and you would do night work and now all of a sudden. Last spring we get a letter that says your land is going to be acquired for a high voltage transmission line. And if you don't sign easement, we're going to take it through condemnation. Believe you me way down in the pit of your stomach you get an awful feeling. This is why our land was then taken because of course a lot of us did not sign easements in Stearns County. There's a hundred six parcels and I think four people possibly of sign on other cut in Polk County is about the same situation and in Travis County they had more easements there because the farmers there are very far apart and they have a lot of land where some of us and Stearns in Polk County. We can make a living on like a 200 Acres 300 acres some hundred and seventy-five Acres. So when they say what we're not taking that much it means quite a difference to you. And then I'd like to go on a little bit about then. They they took it through what you call Quick take condemnation. They estimated how much the land value is worth and then they went ahead went Accord deposited it in the bank or through the court. I don't even know where it is to be honest with you and then they say okay. We now have the legal right to be on your land. So if you think we've had a lot of big money's page was no we have it. We have a mile of line and our farm and Fort hours and we'd get 17300 not $33,000 the irrigation system if we could no longer use it it cost us $57,000 plus if we could not irrigate we lose about $20,000 a year in crock. So that's how we look on the money end of it. And of course our land would be totally de valuated. I'm sad and I'm meeting with some of the utility people down in St. Paul not too long ago. And I said, you know, our land will be the valuated and they said well don't worry too much you pay less taxes. I don't really care to have less taxes to pay in that respect that's being sued. I'll continue on my times are really slipping away here being sued my husband for $500,000 for protesting. against the line what he did was the surveyors had hit Stearns County and on a dairy farm. You have to clean your barn every day in the winter. Especially he was down on the road with a side open tank spreader and it was a good south wind and God was with us. And and everything turned just a little bit Brown and some trucks and and I guess that's worth $500,000 worth of Damages. Plus I have a 5-3 rest myself. I'm really not proud of that fact, but in order to protect my family. You'll see me arrested more. And it's not very nice out there gets rather brutal sometimes. It's upsetting and to think that our governor his turn this date in to the police state he has for just protecting my rights and your rights and the and the future children's rights, actually that's what we're fighting for our rights as human beings to own land and to be how would you say dependent upon ourselves and not have to have government tell us what to do. If it's an upsetting fact, so I I I don't know how much time do I have left? I get his guests at any time Darius or it's okay. Thank you.


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