This morning on the public affairs hour will take a look at the problem of battered women the ugly occurrence of women who are physically abused by their spouses or boyfriends a little later in the program rstudio gas will discuss a recent study by the United Way that reveal some alarming problems about the incidents and extent of this problem in the Twin Cities area. And we'll talk about a new state law that established more shelters and support services for women forced to leave a violent home situation. But before the in-studio discussion will listen to a conversation. I had earlier this week with Sharon Vaughn Sharon is a coordinator of the Harriet Tubman women's shelter in Minneapolis. The shelter is one of just a few in the Twin Cities area. It's a refuge for women who must flee their homes. It supported by private grants the county and a small Federal appropriation shelter house has 16 women and children and there are always more waiting to be admitted the first priority in the whole concept in the in the brewery crucial need for shelter. I think is to offer a woman and her children a safe place to be that is an alternative to a violent situation and the fact is really in in communities all over the country that that is not something that's available to women and that's was a shocking discovery that was made by us working in St. Paul and I don't know 9 72 and 73 that there were wasn't paying place for women to stay in an emergency wear her safety was threatened in her children. So that's the first priority is safety to be safe to be protected to have a chance to decide what she wants to do and the second part of what the shelter provides is advocacy and the third would be support. Advocacy is a staff including paid staff and volunteers who are trained and available to her to help. Help implement the decisions that she makes and women are not necessarily going to be able to follow through with with with choices and they're there can be lots of problems with housing with the welfare system with the legal system with the court system. And so we're available staff to tell women what what those options are and all those areas and counseling therapy too. And then to help her follow through with them if she wants she wants us to help her. So that's a huge area of work goes into that kind of presenting resources and then following up on them with women who are residents and then also whole separate program for children, who are there two who have their own needs School transfers? Medical needs sometimes emotional kinds of things and we have a staff of two child Advocates who work with children and then the idea of support is probably in a way not the most important. But it certainly is crucial because I think it's a really hard to be able to see alternatives for yourself for myself if I'm a woman seeking shelter. If I don't if I can't feel that all that trouble they're going to have to go through and it's an enormous amount of work and takes a lot of Courage I think to be able to really find an alternative to that situation. Even if you go back to it to have it change and that the support groups in the support that the staff offers and probably most important or certainly, you know, very important is to support that the women offer to each other. And that's a big part of what happens in the house in the way that it's run is to try to let to let the women or to set up a structured where women are running the house and making their own choices about what now happens there. How long do women usually stay average day is 11 days which is a fairly misleading figure. I think because some women come and stay overnight or for a couple of days and some women need to stay for a lot longer even longer than a month or six weeks or two months. Sometimes I get the the length of stay depends on each woman's needs. What does she wants to to accomplish and sometimes with housing legal things? It's impossible to be in and out quickly and that it really becomes a longer-term program for her and it needs to be very flexible and needs to meet you know, women's needs no matter what they are up there short-term or long-term. So but we're characterized is temporary emergency housing and we are that and I guess what I'm saying is that we are more if if the need arises There is occasionally a resolution to the problem at home and at women are able to go back or is it best to look Beyond and begin searching for a new lifestyle and do a new life I should say. Well, I don't know I think sometimes there is certainly but I guess the the point would be from from our point of view in from a woman's point of view that she needs to do. Whatever is right for her at the time and if it's to go back and not and discover that things haven't changed all that much then that's okay because that's what she needed to do. And that's where she was at that time and therefore women can come back to the shelter if they've been there once and left and need to come back. That's okay and I guess There are there is many different stories is there are women you know who stayed in there been lots and lots of women who come sometimes. The counseling is is is a solution because the what happens I think we put the the violent situation is that she's both people and the man as the person who's who is perpetrating who's the abuser has to figure out a different way to handle conflict in that relationship. And if he's not willing to do that, then there isn't very much that she can do and there's some parallel with the enabling concept with chemical dependence were the person that's not chemically dependent but who lives in that situation is behaving in a way that's in it and they belong and that's a very difficult thing I think to confront partly because the options that a woman has herself slim and she's responsible for the care of the children. She's financially dependent and emotionally dependent and you know, what alternative she has r r really are We heard the face in society or the social system doesn't offer her very much. And so it's it can be very tough. The Harriet Tubman women's shelter in Minneapolis Sharon introduced me to Carroll woman who two years ago fled to a shelter in St. Paul. Carol said she was abused physically and emotionally by her husband. I knew there was there was a better way to live at the time I only want to do is run and hide My daughter was 4 years old then. I didn't want her to see any more of that kind of phone activity. And the first time no I think I had some Scott I still have scars on my legs from being kicked. But it was more an emotional. Emotional thing and I knew once I had walked out of that house that I better keep on going. You stayed at Women's Advocate Center for 6 weeks. What sort of help did you get there? Well first thing I was concerned with was being safe. It was a big relief knowing that I was behind these big doors that had been Glocks and there was lots of people around. A lot of legal. I had a lot of legal questions. I know my rights and some being this just a single parent. I need I didn't know exactly what restraining orders were or what they did. And you got an advice on these legal matters. So you knew where you stood. If I didn't get the advice there. They referred me to agencies that could give me that shortly after my first day after I moved into an apartment. I went back into the situation. and that was some and that lasted 5 months. and then you left once again and my husband had broken in and at 5 in the morning and try to take my daughter out. And then that night I went to the shelter again for another 6 weeks while they all legal procedures. Could get down going. I mentioned was fairly important to you that there was this place that you could go to where you were protecting. Definitely. In fact, I have a friend who's going through a similar situation a few years back and what she would do would go to a motel when things got rough and there she was with a child. and a television set in the telephone and no one to answer all these questions and No, nobody listen. What was going on? What are you doing now with your wife? I'm a student at the University. And I have been a volunteer at the Harriet Tubman shelter since the opening. When I did leave. This is the first time I had not talked. I hadn't worked in quite a while because of a previous feeding. I received a concussion. It was severe enough to I lost memory for about three months. I lost a very good job. anime I kind of lost all that, you know and I went through two years of counseling. and I decided that I wanted to do something different than office work, which I'm done on my life. I wanted to know more about the the whys and I still don't have all those answers. And that was Carol a woman who was abused by her husband sought help and has since turned her life around the time now is 13 minutes after 10. My guess this morning are Barbara Adams and Ellen pants Barber chair to recent United Way study of physical abuse against women. She also has counseled battered women Ellen pants is Minnesota project coordinator for programs and services for battered women. Welcome to you're both Barbara. Let's talk for a bit about the study that you chaired. I understand that one in three women contacted reported that they had been hit by a husband or boyfriend. Can you tell us a little bit about the survey and those results 3 months of the year? This part of the survey to what you're referring. We did collect data on a number in a number of different directions one was through the emergency rooms at 12 emergency rooms in Hennepin County affiliated with with hospitals and identifying women that had been beaten severely enough to seek emergency help in addition. We surveyed 1469 women through 27 different organizations. This is not a random sample in the end the data from it really can't be extrapolated of the community-at-large. However, we did try to make our sample as diverse as possible from every conceivable standpoint agencies and organizations were selected both thinking both in terms of likelihood of encountering battered women and lack of likelihood of encountering battered women. So the survey is not scientific, but you do have some valid information you Well, it's scientific but it is not a random sample and we can certainly say things about those 1469 women. I seek maybe we can back up here. Just a moment Ellen and talk for a moment. Identify what we mean by the term battered woman what kind of psychological trauma must a woman experience to get to that point a woman who lives in the fear of being physically violated by the man that she lives with to me is a battered woman many people think that a woman has to have have a broken arm or black and blue eyes or has I've gone to the emergency room 10 times and then she's a battered woman but a woman who acts out of some kind of fear of being hit whether she has ever been hit or not experiences, you know, she might not have experienced physical violence, but she experiences all the emotional trauma of someone who has experienced the violence. I think in most cases women who are living with with violent, man and man, who who Are unable to deal with anger in any way but violence eventually they are hit, you know, there's not a lot of women who live in a 10-year state of fear, but it never hit eventually that happens. And so this is the real thing of battering is how a woman feels if she perceives herself as being in physical danger then to me she's she's bad. Is it possible to survive the results of your survey? Is it possible to type a typical battered women do the majority come from a certain background or income group for educational level to impossible to type battered women while the survey didn't show that that the of the women that we talked to they did tend to be lower income. And so Of the of the population of the 34% that were battered they came from every income level every education level every part of the county. What sort of questions did you ask the women on the survey to determine? They were I mean not it was an anonymous questionnaire course, but in terms of what their General background have been also what their experience have been growing up and in their relationships as far as violent as concerned and whatever and also their experience in terms of seeking help what where they had sought help and how they felt about it. What what help they they would like to have. Did you find any connection? Between women who are in a battering circumstance, if you will now and leave their background did they come from homes where there is violence their husbands come from homes, where they where there was violence. Is it something that's passed on from generation to generation of violence has children had experienced witness violence between their parents did the women that you surveyed indicated that they had sought help or wanted help or needed help but was there did they fear help? What was the reaction to that? The women that we talked to had sought help for the most part over 80% of them had however, you have to bear in mind that this was a sample taken from organizations and and groups out in the community neighborhood groups and that sort of thing classrooms volunteer groups Church groups counseling agencies and so on. So these were active women they were out of the house. They were in a position to more perhaps more likely be seeking help then women who who were not yet able to get out of the house or who Had had no history of of outside contact. I see Ellen. What's the part from the study for a moment to discuss the States involvement in the situation? Can you describe the legislation that will provide for some of these women and how it will be implemented. How did it all start? Basically it was it was sponsored by Senator Lewis and Phyllis Kahn in the house and I think that most probably most of the impetus for for sponsoring legislation in the drafting of that legislation came from many of the people that were working in the whole battered women's movement. People women's Advocates Harriet Tubman people from Family and Children's Service people like Barb and they got Senate Louis to sponsor this particular Bill and basically it covers the area is 1 is that it provides $375,000 of funds to to to start for pilot programs, which would be basically shelters that offers. Support Services to women and those shelters would be in the rural area and in the metropolitan area and secondly, it has a mandatory data collection section 2 the bill, which says that all emergency rooms and doctors in the state have to report battered women cases. And and that means that any woman that comes to them if they suspect there is battering they have to fill out a form that's been developed by the Department of Corrections. And thirdly this a Community Education part of the bill, which says that allows $50,000 to do a Statewide Community Education Program, which is about enough money to do a couple of mailing Stevia every bedroom in the state. So it's the amount of money for Community Education is is fairly low. The intent of the bill I think is to is to start to develop a Statewide program that that looks at different ways and services that can be offered to women and also states to sensitise the community to the issue of And that means by sensitize in the community. It's not just people within a certain area. It's the policeman within a certain area the hospitals in a certain area social service agencies those people who come in contact with battered women and two to do that with through the use of shelters is probably the most effective way of doing it. And so the the bill came under the State Department of Corrections, which means that while we administer the program in front of Corrections, that's who I work for. Basically, the money is not being spent by them. It's it's been contracted primarily women's organizations working in the issue and the commissioner of the Department of Corrections so I can show and pointed at a Statewide task force which then developed a set of guidelines for people to apply for money to start shelters and review review. I think it was 19 proposal turn around the state and shows for shelters. Are the shelters that ultimately were funded where was a shelter in Duluth one in Marshall the Harriet Tubman shelter Minneapolis and women's Advocates. So it's two new shelters and to existing shelters. In addition to that. There's a possibility that in january-february Center Louis will introduce a an amendment to that bill which would allow us to fund a v shelter and the place that that would be funded under that has not been chosen yet facilities in the Twin Cities will not be expanded but they won't be additional facilities but possibly services will be expanded and the for the first time the two shelters in the Twin Cities area will be receiving some State funds which will allow them to do some more things, and they found that it was not extremely difficult to seek funds from the foundations and in Minneapolis and in this area, but usually foundations fund a group for one or two years and and they're both experiencing. Kind of a drawing up of money into this going to have to be some kind of a a long-term Financial commitment by the state to keep the Shelf is open and so really if we start more shelters in the cities were going to find that that they're going to end up folding because of lack of funds. So that was basically the decision to continue the funding of women's Advocates and Harriet Tubman. I see the time now is 24 minutes after 10. We're discussing the problem of battered women in our area the incidence of abuse and action designed to help those who are affected. My guests are Barbara Adams who charity United Way report on battered women and Ellen pants State program coordinator for battered women. If you would like to ask a question if either Barbara or Allen you may phone is at 2 to 11550. 2 to 11550 if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities area phone one 800-652-9700 and that number once again outside of the metropolitan area is one 800-652-9700. Ellen you brought up the topic of professionals who deal with battered women and I want to get to that in just a moment. But I guess this question does follow along those lines matter fact, it is the state going to be training more people to counsel women or is that not are there enough people out there? What they need is more resources to work with the more financial assistance. What does a lot of people out there that deal with battered women but I think that the the consciousness of those people needs to be lifted a little bit I would you get that buy our report does direct some recommendations to that very area recommending in-service training for the professionals that are already working with battered women, including doctors and psychologists and counselors and clergy and Nurses and so on. I feel very strongly that the that the $50,000 it was allocated for Community Education in this last bill is not enough money. I mean that that money the priority of that money has to be to reach battered women and too and to get to them and I think that that the Minneapolis Police Department the Saint Paul police department agencies, like family and children's service agencies the welfare department all have training budgets within within their their budgets and and the real task for us now is to convince them to spend their own money on training their own people rather than giving, you know, the small amount of money that we have available for that purpose that I think that while I agree with v that that's who needs to be trained. My primary thing is to say that that you have to train yourself. So the state allotments then you're saying $50,000 should not be used to train professionals. They can come up with their own sources of funding is but it needs to be used at at the advocacy level. I guess you would say how do you feel about that Barbara and and institutions and agencies her are certainly capable of providing that kind of training there a couple of points. I'd like to make along that line. And that's the that whatever that in-service training turns out to be that it not that not look at battered women alone that it recognized. It recognizes that violence to women is part of a larger picture of family violence in general and that there's a lot of overlap among the different types of violence and that as a society. We really need to understand that hole. Situation that brings up some important questions about comprehensive training and programs for men that will get to in a moment, but I see that we have several call or standing by good morning. Do you have a question for either Barbara Adams or Ellen Pence? Yes, my sister and her husband are getting a divorce and he has a children half the time and he polarized them against her so much and frightens them and tries to force them to like him and try to force you to feel guilty and he says things like, you know, you don't love me in and so forth and things like this and sometimes they come back home to her home. She has the home and they're just in terrible shape and the Sun is getting very very hostile and impossible to manage really and she's just been a beautiful mother even protecting the children from him by saying things like well your father really does love you through the years when he has been well mean to them and physically abusive into her has been physically abusive and mostly this is psychological abuse. Okay, that's a slightly different issue, but it's within the realm of what we're talking about. I guess Barbara. Would you care to address that question very painful. Process for everybody in the family psychologically and obviously sometimes physically I think in circumstances like this that clearly there's some professional help needed and that everybody would benefit particularly the children but the parents need to deal with whatever that those problems are. In order to to relieve pressure is on themselves and their by on the on the children. I would recommend that you that that your sister and Aunt are her ex-husband seek some professional help from family counseling agency or or a County. Horry County service I'd like to say that another thing that she needs is a brother like you, you know, it's 1 pressure to go outside and get professional help it if you have people like you and the family kind of there to help her and it's just that it's a tremendously hard thing to go through and she may you know, she may have been bad attorney marriage and hasn't talked about it. And I think that that's something that you can talk to her about, you know, ask her if she has experienced battery and and then and then just support us through the whole thing. If you live in in the metropolitan area. There's a Family Children Services involve st. Paul Minneapolis with your excellent family counseling services that brings up an interesting question in my mind done. Recall that conversation I had with Carol a woman who had been battered left her Home Sade help spent time at the st. Paul shelter and has now turned her life around and she mentioned them. Although it's not the part of that recording that we heard that she had a hard time coping with a family situation and that one of the important things about being at the shelter was that she could talk to her peers and a professional people who understood our situation but weren't as close as family. She said that her husband's family tended to blame her for his problems. Why is that but now Elena said it's good to have a support a family and we're not trying to deny that but but why is it good to seek a third party or just interested party that you get from outside professionals. Everybody tends to try That a little more it is a serious problem for women in a battering situations frequently. They're extremely isolated. They've been brought up to believe as as Sharon was saying earlier that day that the care of the children obviously is their responsibility. It's their responsibility to keep their home together. It's their responsibility somehow not to provoke him on quote and the to move from From that position to seeking outside help is a very large step but a very important one two years and nobody likes her husband in the first place in our family and we all our response to her was will you married the jerk, you know, so so it's your fault that you're in this situation and I think that that after two years of going through that and I have family that's pretty much with that me involved in this issue. Is that when I realized when I think Mac now how I responded to her it was just absolutely atrocious and the thing at finally got him to quit badgering her was when when his seven-year-old son took him out to lunch and told him that if he didn't quit badgering her when he got old enough to take care of them and nobody in our family had enough guts to stand behind her and to confront the man that was battering her. We were afraid of them. She was afraid of them. And basically we said to her it's your problem. I think that's a very common response of families that you married the person. It's your own life. You have to deal with it now and I think that families are essential support from your family as he sent when a woman getting out of the situation. And secondly, I think that when a woman goes to professional for help or when a family goes to a professional to help the first thing I have to look for is the attitude of professional if the attitude of the professional is what have you done to precipitate this violence, let's look at your behavior and and their attitude is basically trying to figure out what's wrong with the women. Why is she masochistic of why should these things then, you know, you're at the wrong place and I think that that's just a word of warning is it to check out the person that you're seeing if their attitude as you don't deserve to be beaten, you know, no matter no matter what other problems are on your relationship. This isn't he? This is not something you deserve then you're at the right place and I think that that's kind of something that everyone should look for it so that when they go to professionally go to the right The time is 10:33 and we have more call or standing by. Good morning. You have a question for Barbara Adams or Ellen Pence you ever investigate the reasons for for the so-called battering is up to something like alcohol using expectavi Diaz in the second question is are the reasons he's attended years that protect the mail at might have a domineering. Thank you for the every once in awhile and thank you for those questions. And those are very good points and issues. We should discuss maybe we should take the first question to begin with and talk about any relationship them that can be spotted between the use of chemicals and battering exclusive and and there's a lot of battering that occurs without the use of chemicals in the emergency room survey that we did a vast majority of the males according to the testimony of the woman that was in there had been using chemicals drugs alcohol and so on and maybe half of that something around 30% of the women had been using chemicals important thing in the whole discussion of his alcohol is in the cause of battering is to is to remember that often times in fact Often than not a man who is an alcoholic is in control of his behavior. And what happens is is that if he wants to do something he'll get drunk to do it and you'll find many men who have batted the wise it will say that that they wanted to beat up their way so they went out and got drunk and that gave him the excuse to do it. And so I think that a lot of people want to show the correlation that because this man is an alcoholic he's out of control. We can't stop beating his wife another key thing in this in this regard. Is that for those Treatment Center? St. Mary's Farmhouse those kinds of alcoholic treatment centers do not deal with battering in treatment. They deal with sobriety that they call battery in a harmful consequence of what the man is done and yet very rarely is a man confronted an AA or and treatment on the fact that he is physically abusing his wife or his children and that's something that we have to change a night in a treatment programs in Minnesota is so that when a man gets out of treatment if he's sober he also no longer deal. His anger by violence. So you're saying that they separate problems and each has to be rooted out and still beat his wife and many many men who go through chemical dependency counseling and stop drinking continue to to exhibit violent. Behavior can be separated them that leads us to the gentleman second question, which was what can be done for the males involved in the situation what can be done in the way of of family guidance and counseling are the provisions and they the new state program for the males in the entire family for women, but we begin to allocate money to start a good program for four men who batter their wives and I think that's that, you know anytime it's a woman gets on Radio and talks about and tries to represent what a lot of other women think that she's open for criticism. So I'll just say this is my own personal view. I think a lot of women myself included involved in this issue because I'm very very committed to the women who are being battered and it's hard for us to put our energies and our efforts into dealing with men who batter because you're so angry at them all the time you if you're if you're sitting inside the Harriet Tubman shelter, you see a woman come in that's been thrown out of a car when it's going 70 miles an hour or woman that's been shot at a woman that's been living in fear. You're so angry at men who batter that hard for you to put your energies and emotions into dealing with them. But on the other hand, we have to remember that for every woman that gets out of the situation because she's been at Harriet Tubman and women's Advocates that man has not changed and he is hooking up with another woman and she's being battered and I think it's time for for the women involved in this issue in the feminist involved in this issue to begin to say that we have to start dealing with With the man who a battery in a sensitive way in a way that recognizes that they too are trapped in some kind of system that most of them were battered children and those that weren't still have you know, that there's there is a real need for those people to be helped and I'm sure all of them are really afraid and really scared and if they weren't scared they wouldn't be bad in their wives probably about Tanisha we did attempt to address that issue in the United Way study you greater Minneapolis. We worked with the city attorney's office in a couple of chemical dependency treatment centers in Savannah Counseling organization to tattoo. To try to get man to fill out a questionnaire similar to the one that women did we were significantly unsuccessful and providing an environment where men would feel free to communicate that kind of thing. Even on an anonymous basis? We did get 21 returns those men. Indicated a very real concern about their behavior. They didn't for the most part they believed it was wrong to hit your wife or girlfriend repeatedly and somehow our counseling environment are our society in general has to get to the point where it can wear. It can provide a a system where men can let go somehow of of the fear of of dealing with how they're dealing with their own anger and finding and helping them find more constructive ways of expressing their feelings. You found that those men who did answer. Your question are were reluctant to a reticent about seeking help though. They were unsure of how to assist themselves in in curing a problem that they have. most of them acknowledge that it wasn't Desirable behavior. However, they didn't really acknowledge that they had a problem and you got to remember that this isn't this is a negligible sample and to extrapolate that the community-at-large has is is totally impossible. However, perhaps there is something we can learn from it. They did indicate that that counseling either individual counseling counseling with their partner would be good. There have been a number of agencies that have offered counseling for men walk-in Counseling in Minneapolis. So there are programs Family Children Service in Minneapolis have offered groups for men men have have somehow not been felt free enough to take advantage of those kinds of opportunities yet at least on any kind of meaningful basis. Okay, we have more caller standing by good morning. You have a question for one of our gas and until today. I have never heard anybody that was helping with the problems express. My my feelings about raising the level of consciousness of the people that you have to deal with. I did feel that they overlooked the legal aid and the police department. Although they did mention something about the budgets of the some of these places for training within those organizations and I sure like to see them try to get you know, some of that money because like one time we had to have it. Please come to my our house and then convince the police that we were guilty of disturbing the peace because we were screaming and I had to go to the legal aid three times to convince them and Finally, I had to go to the Family Children Service before they can we could convince the legal aid that I wasn't just as persons landlady being vindictive, you know, because I was the Prime tenant on the lease agreement the person who put their own name on the lease agreements legally and I couldn't believe it at the time. I was going through this process all these processes. I was more convinced than ever that were still living in the Dark Ages and I just wanted to say that that I admire them for what they are trying to do and if it even if only 21 Men sold out the questionnaire parts of this problem go back and into time like pre-christian tradition, even you know, I mean that the centuries-old problem that you're dealing with the probably has been going on for thousands of years and that if you can get 21 Men to respond to a questionnaire than it's not really you're not really failing you've made tremendous. I just wanted to come in the ladies because until today I never heard anybody say anything about raising the Consciousness levels of this of the people that you have to deal with in this kind of situation. I think that's cool in the morning. Well, thank you very much for your comment Barbara. The lady raises the point that the issue has been suppressed for some time that you mention that goes back to she mention that it was a Dark Age sort of thing. Did you report speak to this point the fact that it is a an issue that isn't that the Forefront of public concern in the beginning of the report of the historical problems particularly in this country until 1874 for the first law existed in 1874 came into being in 1874 saying that it was not legal to beat your wife and then use the rule of thumb kind of thing that switch no larger than your thumb. Would be could be acceptable. I think that she's right that that his Thursday and historical factor that enormous that it has a lot to it has a great deal to do with with that women viewed as property which according to a brown Miller began at the time that people recognize that women are the value of Offspring and that when they became an economic became an economic factor that women became something to control and limit. She also said something about that. We hadn't mentioned anything about the police and legal aid and so on and that's we miss about you as we we are very concerned about police attitudes and and the attitude of the whole judicial system. Certainly are reported indicate that there were many police to do a fine job of helping women. They're all so many police who do not do a fine job of helping women there been some very unfortunate kinds of situations arising for battered women in relationship to the police want a lot of our recommendations are directed at the in-service training Princeton to make to develop some continuity some consistency in terms of how battered women are dealt with in a legal situation. And we also made some recommendations to Legal Aid specifically that the delay is not happy that they would that relationships involving violence receive priority and that same recommendation was directed at the at the judicial system. So anytime we have a a court case that would involve domestic violence. So rather than placing on The Ledger Time before it would appear on a doctor that would be given priority because there is that imminent danger someone being hurt their and the the victim has not been involved other informed of what the process is and and and what decisions are even as it goes along their number of recommendations directed at those issues. What about dealing with some medical personnel, I would imagine that if a woman is hurt that initially she would seek medical help. What sort of care are women getting at the county hospital? I know you took a look at that. What's our recommendations? Did your task force make? The Care at Hennepin County Medical Center is probably the finest for battered women as good as we could ask for there's a 24-hour counseling the staff. There is is a very aware of the issue one of their staff was on the our task force and their data collection efforts were exceptional other hospitals while we did do some in-service training for emergency room staff. The commitment was not uniform in terms of executing the the data collection effort and however, there is no emergency room Nurses Association that is very concerned with the issue and is attempting to Make a response to it more uniform ineffective things like a woman comes in the camera should be available. So that photographs will be taken and injuries documented and referrals given in counseling available in that kind of thing that we feel should be available to the medical facility and important thing to point out here that the woman that called in earlier. I think it was getting at 2 is that almost everyone who deals with a battered woman feels that they are dealing with what is traditionally call a domestic situation and that that the police do not deal with bat and battering as they would any other assault on the street. Once you're actually getting in the middle of two people's relationships. Everyone wants to kind of standoff from that most women that come into an emergency room of a hospital that has obviously been bad will say she fell down the stairs or she got in a car accident will say something other than She's been battered until the real thing with the emergency room. People is getting them to let her know that it's okay to talk about it if she's been battered and most people do not want to if she wants to say she fell down the stairs. That's okay with them. You don't care that's what you did and and and you'll find that some people now as the as the issue is more and more prominent in the papers and and his people you don't like Barb going out to hospitals talking to people that you find it nurses are beginning to to talk to him and say look if you've been battered you can talk to me about it. And that's what a bad woman need is someone to say to her. It's okay to talk about being better that you don't have to make up excuses and you don't have to keep hiding it and yet nobody want usually people just don't want to hear that and it's so that's the basic thing as a policeman don't want to deal with it hospitals don't want to deal with the lawyers don't want to deal with it. It's all just kind of keep it under the rug many battered women don't Are reluctant to discuss their situation and would actually say that they fell down the steps or something simply want to get the medical treatment and get out and not pursue the issue is if I was pointing out that there's there's a three-month period between the time when a woman presses charges against a man and when it's actually about the court during that 3 months. He's usually living at home. And so so by the time she ends up in court usually his story is changed as to what happened. And so I think that that the constant fear that the woman lives in because she knows that man. She's intimately related with him. She lives with them that that means that she's going to she's not going to trust anybody to protect your safety. Will it be the hospital the police and and her her basic form of protection is to deny that it's happened. Did you have something else bar? I'll just kind of came to mind that really illustrates that for me that the whole issue of people's attitudes toward privacy in relationships particularly between men and women are there was a study done in and out Ann Arbor a few years ago where they staged fights on city streets and they stage fights between between men between women and between men and women and in cases where in every case where a woman was attacking a man or a woman was attacking a woman or where a man was attacking a man passersby intervened in the process and tried to stop it. But in every single case where the male was attacking the female There was no intervention by any passerby. What's causing the problems of battered women in our area? Am I guess our Barbara Adams of Charity United Way report on battered women and Allen Penn State program coordinator for battered women. We have about 10 minutes left this morning. If you would like to ask a question of Barbara or Ellen you my phone is at 2 to 11550. If you live in the metropolitan area called to to 11550 you're calling from outside the Twin Cities area phone one 800-652-9700. We do have a caller standing by good morning. Do you have a question for I guess? Michigan and I'm really encouraged to hear of these programs in the Twin Cities like a comment that one of the previous college one of them. I believe we think worrying about is there any a door services for a man who's been battered by his wife and I don't believe that question. It's been addressed and what I would like to having some weirdness is the extent of the problem. I'd like to comment back to the discussion on the police and recalling a study where they found it a significant percentage over over half of police officers in wherever they did to study battered their wives, which I think you no points out the extent and dads and seriousness of the problem in the difficulty with when I do fake Aid which is quite often primarily through the police to intervene in a situation. Also having some ideas of tremendous isolation and hopelessness that about a woman can feel I'd like to ask both Barb and Ellen. Is there something that they would like to say today to the battered women who were listening to this program and made it particularly to younger women and man who ran a battering situation by their father or in some cases their mother as to what what I can do. Okay, thank you. If there are several components to that question Barbara leave it to your discretion to address whichever one of them you'd like to in an Ellen. You can add anything that you'd care to they were all good points. And I'd like to just run through 1 2 3 but to start with her first point about aid for men. I really appreciate your pointing that out. That was the questioning and it slipped by us. Paid for men who are being battered is is similar to aid for women or being battered. I'm sure Harriet Tubman. I know women's Advocates has accepted one of his has accepted a man that was being bad for shelter. And if they the same kind of counseling services that did a woman would seek wood would be able to help a man the family counseling agencies in in both cities and their number of other smaller groups throughout the community that are directing efforts at that particular issue. I think it I think what he was really trying to point out was it there are men who are battered and that violence is not is not strictly something that men do to women that it can't sit at 6. It's more and more inexperienced on both sides of the street and and we acknowledge that to Family Children Service data in Minneapolis did a review of their caseload last February. Out of 850 cases and there were initially 12 and ultimately. I'm at the after really looking at the data. There were three men that were were truly being battered by their why they were in 270 some women or something like that that we're being battered by their husbands, but it does happen and and those people need help too. I guess I'd like to answer the question about that. Is there anything that we want to say to battered women and I can't think of anything good slogans right now, but that basically if there is bad women listen to this program the primary thing that we have to say to you I guess is that is that you don't deserve to be battered and that there are people that are there to help you. If you want to come to us. I'll give you the number of the Harriet Tubman shelter in Minneapolis. It's 8 to 72841 idont know the number of women's Advocates to buy know. I don't it's in the phone book. Just look under women's. The kids in St. Paul and then the other thing is is this a lot of kinds of things that I'm sure a lot of battered women are thinking and that is that you know that you have to protect the children. You have to try to make the marriage work you have to try to he loves you and you love him and and the battery in is something outside of that love for each other and all those things may be true. But but still you need help you need someone to be able to talk to you need some place to go and when you go to Harriet Tubman or two women's Advocates or to a counseling situation, you can begin to talk to other battered women and figure out what you really want and what you really think it doesn't mean that it's automatically going to end up in divorce. It doesn't mean that you're going to lose your children or lose your husband's love in many cases. It means that you can resolve the conflict within the home and that you can pull together as a family again and that's what I imagine. Most women want is is to be in that family situation. You know how a family is supposed to be supposedly and it's not supposed to have violence in it. And for every woman that's living in a violent situation who's being beaten and her kids are around to see that an experience that you have to remember that your kids are seeing and experiencing something that event is going to affect them for life. And and if if right now you don't feel like you want to do it for yourself and do something for them. And and the primary thing is that you deserve to be treated like a like a woman should be treated. We have another call or standing by thank you for waiting. You're on the air I have my question is outside intervention and maybe some suggestions from are commentators. I'm living in a duplex and it one time. Ago. I overheard screaming and Loud bangs coming from the upstairs apartment. I am didn't know quite what to do. I was certain that it was sung a man and a woman in an argument and I am Let It Go forget and then I decided to go upstairs and knock on the door and then I did threaten to call the police and then I turned around and left the situation. Is there something else I could have done? Yes, there is although I think that it is wonderful that you cared enough to intervene the way you did. I think they're couple of ways to go. One thing is in the event. There's just no receptivity on the part of either party is that you can catch in Hennepin County at least contact Adult Protective Services and which exists to do just that and and they will take it over from there. The other thing is that that in the event that you have any kind of communication with either of the parties or you could create any kind of opportunities for that sort of thing that you could just calmly offer your care and concern about whatever they experiencing and asking and asking if you could be of any help. Okay, we have time for one more call. Good morning. Do you have a question for one of our guest? So I guess that call her left us. All right in the remaining I guess we have about 90 seconds left and the remaining time I would like to pursue one more point that the study brought up Barbara and that is doing more in the area of educational services and prevention. What does that Encompass? And what did you recommend? Educationally recommended on a number of levels beginning with Elementary School K to 12 Family Life education programs devoted to developing Consciousness among children that their bodies are valuable and that they need to take care of them. It's the only one they got in and and values having to do with violence which Kentuckian of course of chemical dependency and all kinds of things. Are we made recommendations? Also to professional schools everything from the whole medical Spectrum to the counseling and Social Work Spectrum to clergy and and the law that that the coursework be available on Family Violence for professionals going into any helping, Panama City. Okay. Well the time is rapidly approaching 11 a.m. And at this point will conclude our public affairs hour this morning been talking about battered women we talked about many issues in her many things that we haven't discussed. I'd like to apologize to those people who didn't have their questions at didn't have a chance to get their questions on stay tuned up for options medication next on Minnesota Public Radio a listener supported service.