Spectrum: Marc Kurzman and Doug Morgan on alcohol use

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On this regional public affairs program, lawyer/pharmacist Marc Kurzman and Doug Morgan, of C.R.E.A.T.E. drug awareness program, discuss responsible use of alcohol, its effects on the body, and laws involved. Kurzman and Morgan also answer listener questions.

Program begins with interview regarding Minnesota’s Dram Shop Act, which makes a person or establishment who illegally sells alcohol liable for injuries and death arising from the illegal sale.

Read the Text Transcription of the Audio.

Good morning. The time is exactly 10 a.m. This is Neil Saint Anthony speaking from our Saint Paul Studio as of 8 a.m. This morning. The National Weather Service reports that 3 in of snow has fallen in the Twin Cities area. And the Weather Service says that at 9 a.m. The temperature was 14 degrees Fahrenheit and that's 10 below. Celsius winds are Northeast at 12 miles per hour in the Twin Cities area light snow continues to fall at this hour in Saint Cloud light snowfalls. And it's 8° Fahrenheit Fahrenheit in Rochester light snow and 18 degrees.This morning on the public affairs hour will take a look at the consumption of alcoholic beverages and there's no doubt that for many New Year's Eve is a gay occasion laced with generous portions of beer wine and bourbon. Hi, how are you tonight for you to catch an early movie and to get off the road before the infamous New Year's Eve drunks take to the highway but for many New Year's Eve will be celebrated at a restaurant Saloon or private party. It's traditional and taking a drink or five is common as we bid. Goodbye to the past year. We thought it would be a good time to talk about alcohol use. We won't make any value judgments, but to Studio guests are here to discuss the effects of alcohol on the human mind and body to examine some of the consequences of over drinking as well before we begin our studio discussion. However, will briefly Explorer Minnesota law that every party host should know about it's called the dram shop ACT earlier this week. I spoke with Lindsay Arthur Jr. Minneapolis attorney well acquainted with that law. Reach statehood in about 1858. They lost has undergone numerous of changes in virtually every legislative session in the last 10 years. I would say that the purpose of the ACT is to compensate people that are are injured as a result of a bar. Illegally selling intoxicating beverages to summon individual who thereupon causes injuries to an innocent person. Originally. The law was just intended to cover alcohol sold in saloons, but there was several years ago a change made to include alcohol to Spence that private parties. Why was this change made the Minnesota Supreme Court in the case of Roth vs. Roth decided that the dram shop act broadly construed the prohibited the giving of intoxicants by any any person or that person be a bartender or a municipal liquor store or just a private sitter and the Supreme Court simply construed the dram shop act as in is as prohibiting the illegal giving of intoxicating beverages by private citizens. The only guidance that you get from the statutes in the various Supreme Court cases construing the statute is a Prohibition against the dispensing intoxicating beverages to a person who is already obviously intoxicated. I see obvious intoxication is the one which is the operative language the legislature did take action this year and I presume what they wanted to do was to exclude private parties and dispensing of drinks in the home from the dram shop act. Well, I guess I've assumed that's what the legislature wanted to do also, but I've also concluded that the legislature didn't accomplish its intended purpose. The changes made by the 1977 legislature was to strike from the the statute a phrase or giving a prior to 1977 the it was illegal to give sell or barter intoxicating Beverages and the word giving was a it was an integral part of that statue at the 1977 legislature took the words or giving out so that now what's prohibited is the selling or bartering of intoxicating beverages, but I think that is quite possible under many circumstances for an individual to be involved in the bartering of intoxicating beverages. So it's possible that a visitor might bring to a party some potato salad. It could be construed that he or she is bringing a fat potato salad in exchange for house Punch or something some other intoxicant, is that correct? Apple yes other potential examples include where individuals go out the bar hopping together and each person buys around you could even have a barter situation in a normal social type of setting where you know, the Jones invite the Smiths at once and then the Smith. I repay the Jones by inviting them the next time and you can almost say that the the second invitation was and even the first was just a bite her in exchange for getting invited back another time and the legislators simply did not say that that the lat V law does not apply to private citizens. It could have done that if it had wanted to and that would have made it very clear all they did was break the word giving but they left the word selling or or burger and of course if a private individual does the drink says sometimes as the case at a wedding reception, for example, why then you know that private citizen to still liable. So in your estimation than the law is vague in that respect and Private parties still can be held liable and be my opinion. What's the best way for a private party to ensure that there is no retribution is it to I can they have the guest sign something or is it just common sense making sure that people don't overindulge I would say that the private citizen have to do a couple things. First of all the makeup I think a private citizen owes a duty to the public to make certain that people that are our guests at his house or his party do not overindulge themselves. And I think the safest thing for for that person to do I would be too if the police at his party or or his such as a family I get together whatever it might be an adult in fashion in the cut people off is there if they're drinking too much. Short of that life as long as he's just strictly giving alcoholic beverages without the anyting impliedly coming to him and return why the statute probably doesn't apply to him that is not to say however that the the courts of Minnesota won't require this individual to act free of a Havanese back to the legislature has abolished the liability of private citizens under the dram shop act itself doesn't necessarily mean that the courts aren't going to require private citizens to to act and reasonable fashion. In the net that if it could be the private citizens will still be called app ask if they if they acted negligently and supervising their party's what are most of the suits over after there has been an accident of some kind after drinking at a bar in a private home is it usually automobile accidents automobile accident? So resulting in personal injury and death I would say is the is the number one source of litigation, but it's not the unusual to have the suicides and the drownings and a lot of fights salt shootings various other incidents of that nature that the occur when people get intoxicated. Minneapolis attorney Lindsay Arthur Jr. Discussing the Minnesota dram shop act bar and restaurant owners of course are well aware of the act at mr. Arthur interprets the law to mean that party host should be conscious of the law and restrain their gas from drinking too much. The time is now 8 minutes after 10 hour in studio. Guess this morning or Doug Morgan and markers meant for four years to 1975 Doug Morgan was assistant director of the health professionals drug abuse education project at the University of Minnesota since 1975. He has co-director a non abstinence alternative drug program called create. He also was involved in implementing a new program in Hennepin County for people who have been convicted for the first time of driving while intoxicated. Mark Hersman is an attorney and a pharmacist for the last five years. He has headed the office of Alcohol and Other Drug abuse program at the University of Minnesota and that capacity Mark coordinated all biomedical psychosocial research and courses at the you that dealt with alcohol and other drug abuse Mark also is a consultant to the National Institute on drug abuse. It recently entered into a full-time law practice in Minneapolis. Good morning to you both and thanks for coming mark You're an attorney end during a pre-recorded session that we just heard with. Mr. Arthur. He disgusted Minnesota dram shop act and I wanted to ask you if you agree with his interpretation that private parties may still be liable under the dram shop act. That's a difficult question to answer me or because the law was mended effect of last summer. We don't have any case interpretation of it my understanding of legislative history is that the reason to giving was taken from the statute is specifically to exclude the private party host. From liability the bothering that language which state in the statute which could be conceivably extended to include exchange for potato. Salad. I believe if it's taken to a court will probably result in the private party house being found not liable significant part of my last statement is the probably again, we don't have any case of terminations on it. And so my advice would be from a legal as well as societal recommendations for this evening and other evening to take the safe side to notice whether your guests are being observably drunk because the key there as pointed out by Lindsey Arthur Jr. Is that it has to be observable be drunk if your gas is observably drunk from alcohol alone. And also it's important to note from alcohol in combination with other psychoactive substances that may be used if that person is eyes Observer be intoxicated. They should not be given any further intoxicants of any sort will probably have to await a test case to test the dram shop act, but there are other reasons. Smart points out why you should make sure that your guests do not overindulge this evening Doug Morgan many people have had bad experiences with alcohol seek help and simply op2 totally abstain from drinking but this morning were talking about responsible use of liquor. How do you define that Visual Basic clients who come into our program need to Define that for themselves, but essentially what we're talking about is use that will not accrue serious or harmful consequences to the individual or to the people around that individual in the toxic state. So what we're looking at is a comparison between toxic behavior and non toxic behavior, and is there a difference and does that difference occur in a negative way? And I guess we would say that if it does then that use has gone beyond the bounds of of responsibility other people who simply can't drink who shouldn't be drinking. We simply can't use the substance responsibly. Well, that that's obviously complex question. Probably most appropriately put their People For Whom The Struggle simply isn't worth it that in order to drink responsibly would be such a struggle for them personally and socialite that it's far more advisable simply for them to give up the use of alcohol. Mark alcohol at taken in sufficient quantities can greatly influence behavior. Can you explain what exactly happens when we drink for instance? What causes the lightheadedness that we might experience or some other affect the answer to that depend on how much alcohol while taking on how much liquid is taken so that if we talkin about 5% beer 12% wine or 80% share it I guess Sherry would be 80% 80% of the dose that the person is taking of the alcohol is the significant factor that can influence their behavior in the feelings that they have some of the things that will take place alcohol is what's called a central nervous system depressant as a depressant the individual becomes slow down eventually the individual will slow down to the point of fatigue where they may fall asleep or if they've taken too much alcohol over short. Of time there. Lucifer was called respiratory arrest and and died. Now the lightheadedness is usually caused by a combination of this Depression affect and the effect of the alcohol has on the blood system dilates the capillaries decreases blood pressure diminishes the amount of blood to the brain in the person is feeling dizzy as result of that. So it's definitely a debilitating effect. Yes. I also saw a logical extension of that thing would be to say that if one is at a given moment emotional depressed or overly excited drinking. I will likely enhance that emotion then and could result in a dangerous situation most likely to result in enhancing the depressant aspect of the behavior, but then you have another fact you're coming in when people using alcohol, which is that their inhibitions behavioral Innovations start to become interfered with so you'll have people with alcohol depending on the dose of course becoming violent. And aggressive and that becoming violent and aggressive at the same time that there notary classes are deteriorating. So you have eventually a flailing drunk on your hands and whether that person is behind a car or at the party that person is causing some harm at that point open tension from harm to themselves and others around. Can you explain why alcohol seems to placate some people while attends to inspire others to do crazy things. Well, I guess it depends on who you pouring the alcohol into I don't mean to be facetious about that but different people have different personality traits and when you start to remove some of the normal societal conditions to behaviors that people are going to start acting out more as to what their let's say subconscious motivations might be their aggressive motivations might be you lose your societal Shield to behavior. I see the time is approaching 16 minutes after 10 and I'll guess this morning are Doug Morgan of the create drug program and Mark kurzman and attorney and pharmacist if you The question for one of these gentlemen. You're welcome to phone us at 2 to 11550. That's two to 11550. If you live in the Twin Cities metropolitan area. If you are listening outside the Twin City area call us at 1 800-652-9700. That's one 806-529-7004 listeners outside the metropolitan area. Doug there always seems to be a lot of pressure to drink at Social Gatherings unless they're hosted by non-drinkers. How do you advise people to respond to that sort of pressure if they don't wish to overindulge? simply by saying no soften a difficult thing to do there a lot of little tricks and gimmicks the people recommend if you drink ginger ale it looks like a drink or if you have some tomato juice people might think you're drinking a bloody Mary and I'll leave you alone, but We've seen very often with a number of our clients that the social pressure you're talking about. Isn't that controlling in the situation and they simply haven't learned how to say no. And what we recommend simply is it people become a bit more assertive in giving a negative response when people are are pushing alcohol on and which they don't want to consume. Is there a training process or procedure that you impart to people to help them say no to find that registers with them. We do some assertiveness training in our program so that people can learn to be more assertive overall. Body Central in the situation. It really comes down to a matter of saying no, why do I think frequently happens Mark talk briefly about something we call the disinhibition you for it. The first thing to go when you're consuming alcohol is your judgment before you slow down and any other way your judgment is impaired so often it's not just a matter of the individual wanting to say no power at the point where the individual want to be saying though. The judgment is impaired enough that they don't say no. Mark I understand that alcohol is taken in sufficient and plentiful quantities can sweep out some essential vitamins and minerals from the human system. Does this occur only when we over consumed at the what extent should we be aware of that? That'll depend on the individual's metabolism. And it also depends on the amount of alcohol is consumed and the amount about two liquids that are consumed along with the alcohol when alcohol is metabolized in the body the activities which are I'm sorry that you the the bodily functions which are involved in detoxifying that tax acceptance involve the use of sugar which is stored in the body glucose and thiamine vitamin which is stored in the body. What will happen is depending on the amount of time in that is already in the body when the person begins and the amount of sugar as the alcohol is metabolized. You reach a point where there's no more thiamine available to enter into that metabolic process and the metabolism of the breaking down of the toxic steps and stops reading in the blood and derivative of alcohol, which is a toxic substance, which many people feel is responsible for the feeling of Hangover. Now the amount of liquid that you take in this important also because Liquids themselves anything water causes people to lose liquids. If you drink large quantities of liquid that acts as a diuretic and you will actually lose through urination more liquid than you've taken it as you're losing the liquid you're changing the electrolyte balance of the body and that will cost an additional difficulties. Also a good thing to do is to take some liquids the next day if you will some glucose the night before B12 thiamine the night before and then you were giving your building up the body resources of those substances that can be depleted in order to detoxify to buy that's interesting to get to that whole area of Hangover little bit later on for someone to ask though often. We hear that someone will say that the doctor advised me to take a glass of wine every day or the doctor says that a drink a day is good for me if it's a boost are there instances where alcohol can be good for a person? Wealthy I want to liquor store. I suppose alcohol into pretty good one. Other than that, I know in my opinion alcohol is is sometimes or often times use as a sedative in a manner that you suggested. It's giving to people to take a drink and you'll relax when you get home take a drink and go that relax when you go to sleep take a drink at lunch time to relax to go back to the office if people start taking alcohol to relax every time during a stressful situation. Can we get into a situation with some individuals are they become alcoholic? There are other ways of going to sleep at night besides taking any psychoactive substance into the body those fail their other psychoactive substances that will be available on prescription know probably be less harmful to the body and have less potential for the individual becoming dependent on it than alcohol. I've heard however that there are so much nutrients and minerals in for instance. Rozay wine that are beneficial for the human system. Is there anything to that or if I was laboring under a gross misconception will I don't want to call it a gross misconception. I suppose some people might find the particles in the wine somewhat useful as a as a as bulk and they send you the address to track but there that that is a common myth. I'm not think I was trying to come back as you need alcohol is not a nutrient alcohol has a lot of carbohydrates in it and it's such people will get some quick energy from utilizing alcohol but the nutritional value of alcohol is is almost non-existent that were advised that eating before drinking some what dissipates the effect of alcohol is that also a myth or or is there something to them know that one that one has some foundation in science? If you will protein taken into the body protein in the digestive tract the stomach and intestines will slow down the absorption of alcohol from those system into the blood so protein to be taken with me to It would not at often times. You hear a advice take a glass of milk to coat your stomach doesn't quite coat your stomach, but it does have a lot of protein in it and the protein than will retire in the absorption of the alcohol something that would be good. If anybody has some eggnog left over, for example, I need to run out this time has Megan hunt before you begin your evening and you'll have a high protein content in your stomach which will slow down the absorption seemed really eating throughout the drinking experience. If you will throughout the seasons at a party for 4 or 5 hours eating some protein snacks will continue to keep down the absorption of the alcohol and dust more alcohol to speak Sweden from the body in that absorb into it. So you would advise a host to serve snacks at their parties. Definitely 10/22 talking about the responsible use of alcohol this morning, I guess or Doug Morgan of the create drug program and Mark Hersman an attorney in pharmacist have a question about drinking your walk. The phone is it to to 11550. If you live in the Twin Cities metropolitan area area. Call one. 806-529-7004 you we hear occasionally at a statement such as old Peach can drink anyone under the table. He can really hold his liquor out. Some people can sing lay up tolerate more alcohol than others without appearing to be drunk. Why is that do some people can some people tolerate a lot more? Well, there can be a variety of reasons for that in the end mark probably with a pharmaceutical background could could speak more definitively about it. But certainly one of the factors involved in toxicity is the size of the person involved and also the kind of tissue that contributes to that size and other words muscle tissue will absorb and retain alcohol better than fat tissue. So a fat person and a muscular person of the same weight will not show the same blood alcohol content. The muscular person will have less alcohol in the bloodstream in any given time if they're drinking at the same rate. Alcohol is an addictive drug. Meaning that one over a long. Of time can develop a tissue tolerance to the drug alcohol? What that means essentially in the example you brought up is that the person who is addicted to the drug alcohol may not appear to be as intoxicated on the same amount of alcohol is someone who is not addictive. Okay, we have several questions standing by but first I'd like you to speak to that? If you cannot with your pharmaceutical background, why is it that there's some people see can only handle more alcohol than others. Well, I would agree with the answer to Doug just gave in the lab breed only on the second part of his answer relating to the tolerance as people use alcohol in this is true with number of other drugs. But as people continue to use alcohol on a regular basis, it takes more alcohol in order to have the same behavioral manifestations of intoxication. It is known as tolerance. So the individual will take me for example. Now if I would have one glass of wine, which doesn't have very much alcohol in it whatsoever because I am very very rarely drink alcohol. I will be light-headed dizzy and sleepy, I'm just an absolute push of the way. I called but take some other people that I know or even take me 10 years ago, and I will I won't talk about me and some other people that I know it will be up to a point where the drinking a quart of alcohol in a day and showing no more observable out with observable manifestations of the intoxication that I would have done a glass of wine because they have the tolerance to it. Okay, very good. We do have caller standing by and we're going to go to one of our listeners now. Good morning. Do you have a question for either mark Hersman or Doug Morgan? Yes, go ahead. We're listening. fiorinal Okay, maybe we should let you try that first mark. Yes it let me let me answer the question more broadly and you've asked it and I'm glad you brought that up because that isn't a problem. Not only with the illicit substances. What's the alcohol and marijuana but as you point out alcohol on fiorinal alcohol and antihistamines and alcohol and sleeping pills alcohol is a drug. It is a depressant on the body when you were taking other drugs, which have as either their immediate effect or as a side effect depressant impact on the body you have what's called potentiation, when you have an effect, which is greater than adding simply the depressant effect of the two drugs not fewer know is something which is used to primarily to alleviate migraine headaches as such fiorinal with dilated capillaries in the musculature in order to reduce the blood pressure as part of his activities and the combination of that with alcohol would probably be a significant combination which could potentially lead to a low blood blood pressure. situation that could be harmful I guess the best rule of thumb if you will is not to use any prescription medication with alcohol and not to use any over-the-counter medication like contact or various cold preparations with alcohol because the deposit duty of the potentiation is there when you're mixing drugs, if you're not a pharmacologist, you may not recognize it but your body will and the adverse effects on your body is something what you don't want to happen, especially if you're out driving or operating any Motor Vehicles or heavy machinery and set Okay, the time is 10:28. We have other colors standing by. Good morning. You have a question for Doug Morgan or Mark Hersman Ama or some other medical organization has come out to see that those individuals who take one drink, but they want and I believe it was a day or actually better off than those individuals who do not be surprised me and in light of what I've heard on the radio this morning. I put it in the question. I want to know your opinion on this and what do you heard about this at all? Silence in this video my opinion on it is well, let me first say that I'm not aware of any statements by the AMA that one drink a day is better for people that no drinks, even if they said it let's let's assume for a moment that they did. My opinion is that that is erroneous that we have a lot of stressful situations in daily life and relaxing to maybe a nice way to deal with the stress, but I don't think my advice is not to drink even one glass of wine a day as a regular habit for the purpose of resolving stress. I would suggest there other non-chemical ways of doing what the color is referring to Mark. I think it's in his book did side is statistic which indicated that people who are moderate users of alcohol tend to live longer than people who are total abstainers or people who use alcohol irresponsibly. Now whether or not they're better off. I don't know. I guess that's a quality of life judgment that that we can't make without seeing the people but they apparently do tend to live a bit longer but that may relate someone to just the general presentation of moderation in attitude and behavior is usually results in more long life than does extremism on either side of a spectrum there also statistics, as you are well aware done that suggested the people who are either stainers or extremely heavy uses of intoxicating substances will have children who will most likely have difficulty with intoxicating substances. So I think to draw the conclusion that moderation in this regard results in longer life and tied in with alcohol may be an erroneous conclusion to draw. Okay. The lines are lit up. We have another caller standing by good morning. Do you have a question for one of our experts? He was just ask and that is the question of alcohol and small amounts. I wonder why if if you have glucose or thiamine around why you can't utilize the ethanol coming in as it is a viable metabolic route. I guess I I'm sorry. I'm having difficulty really understand you question in other words because you have it. There isn't a good way to get rid of the 5-minute glucose in your body because around you can have them coming into a metabolic pathway so that you can use help you out with ethanol till it wouldn't hurt you and wondering Actually, I did not make any sense to you. I would agree with your statement that if you have these substances in your body, you got to detoxify your body from the alcohol. The difficulty is that you also are experiencing the the psychoactive effects of the alcohol when your taking it. So, I'm not an advocate of total abstinence as a general philosophy except to say that would be nice if our society didn't have to use mood-altering substances, but we do use mood-altering substances would that recognition in our society is moderation would be the most likely next step to take and what I hear you suggesting is moderate use of alcohol. I'm not saying that people should not matter really use alcohol drinking wine with meals. Can you limit a Blodgett also that took because of the the glucose that you're bringing? Yes, if you're talking about one or two or three glasses of wine over. Of a couple of our dinner, You're taking in food. Of course, they won't be any difficulty with the four most people with the detoxification of that substance. Thank you for your other question or standing by good morning. You're on the air with the North country and I have two questions sing-along paper. I coming to drop the pots the way up here. We have problems both with its at times with two when someone comes to a private party and they bring their own bottle. What sort of the situation is that the private person. Could you respond to that please? Yes with regard to your the first part of your question that I will assume that you're the musician and you don't also go around behind and and draw the bureau said the drinks and as a musician than the entertainment which is bringing people in there is no case while that I'm aware of that would impose liability upon you for under the dram shop act in the reading of the act now it suggested that is not something that is reasonable to foresee. The Future II part the the private party bringing their own bottle strict interpretation of the dram shop act even before the the Amendment last summer which now throw some doubt as to whether or not the private party host is liable with suggested if you brought your own bottle or individuals brought their own bottle to your house didn't then you are not liable for them because you did not serve would distribute or give the difficulty here. However, is a realization that one somebody's hurt a lawsuit. May will begin and the factors. You may eventually come out to Victor in the lawsuit may make you feel good and will certainly make the attorneys in your area feel good because they're going to be gunning for you to represent you during that time. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even though they may not be some liability. If there are people in your premises that are observably intoxicated and they are then allowed to go out and interact with the rest of society in themselves by driving a motor vehicle and they can suffer some harm from that. The I would hope that that as it as it as a member of society, I don't want that to happen as the first level of interaction at the second level of interaction. I hope you consider that even if you may not eventually be liable under the Tramp back to make cost a lot of money to prove that point and I guess their conclusion statement from that his is again don't let people who are observably intoxicated leave your premises. If not out of concern for themselves those individuals at do it at least out of concern for pocketbook. Okay? Thank you for that question sir. The time is 10:36. And before we go on to our next listener, we have this road advisory in from the Minnesota Department of Transportation. I 35W North and southbound south of the Twin Cities at the Minnesota River Bridge. Do the numerous accidents has been closed motorists are advised to find alternate routes. This closure will be in effect until further notice and I will have more about that on our news program at 12. We have another caller standing by good morning. You're on the air on the use of antabuse. disulfiram and also the Time after use of ethanol in other words, how soon does they feel that? It could be used? How soon after you someone is taking antabuse will your body being sufficiently able to accept alcohol without making a vinyl? Is that the question you're asking? Hello, I guess I was a question and I'm not going to answer it. And if you just for the rest of the people that may be listening is a substance that is used with individuals that stuff for difficulties with the use of alcohol and abuse has a substance which is taken and then if alcohol is taken after the person takes and of you they become violently ill nauseous and such and it is a way of conditioning people to decrease or stop the use of alcohol like any other drug, they will come a point in time where it will be eliminated from the body and dust you would not have the adverse effect. But the morning of New Year's evening, I'd rather not share that information little bit earlier. We were talking about the tolerance levels that two different people have how do you assist a person in establishing? I his or her own point of moderation be on which he or she shouldn't exceed. I guess that depends again on what we were talking about earlier in their own individual definitions of responsible use, but what we attempt to do with people is help them number one be able to articulate clearly the problems that occur when they use And then to help them change their patterns of you sit. It may be a change in frequency or amount of you. So it may might be changes in other areas so that those negative consequences no longer a company that use As an example we might have a guy who stops after work every night and has a couple of martinis with his friends and begins to notice a pattern that when he does that he's more likely to have a violent or non-constructive argument with his wife when he gets home, which does not occur if he doesn't stop for a drink. Okay. Now what you can do with that situation that really gives you endless possibilities. So the most obvious of course would be won't look why don't you just quit stopping for a drink after work, sometimes that's unrealistic. Maybe he needs to recognize when he's angry sooner than he nailed does and so we might help him look for some telltale signs and when he's beginning to get angry or upset or dissatisfied with something that's transpiring between himself and his wife. It may simply mean a phone call to his wife before he leaves to work to say hey, is there anything we need to talk about? Cuz I'm going to stop and have a couple martinis. And so it let's talk about it now so that we don't have a nasty argument when I get home so that from that can I assume that it would be advisable for us all to know how much we can drink where our cutoff point should be provided we can cut off certainly certainly. I guess this morning I Doug Morgan of the create drug program in Mark kurzman and attorney and pharmacist and I see that we have more color standing by good morning. I will ready for your question isn't speaking in terms of consuming alcohol. I just looked at a bottle of Italian Lambrusco wine, which is approximately 8% alcohol. What's the other 92% Michael let you take that one. It's Italian Lambrusco water flavoring agent in from the extraction from the grapes and I guess Lambrusco have carbonation. Okay. Well, then would be carbonate and I guess that's a significant the carbonation carbon dioxide in the body in the in the digestive tract and such will increase the absorption of alcohol and thus if you're going to be using intoxicating beverages alcoholic substances, you will absorb less with non carbonated beverages than you will with carbonated beverages. Okay. Thank you for your question and thank you for waiting. You're on the air. Oh, yes. Yes. I was wondering about the if you have any information there on the Mueller John facilities in Duluth, Minnesota their percentages of alcohol. I don't do I don't know whether I know that from what I know. It seems to be a fun program and model after most of the traditional hospital-based programs in the state. I'm afraid we don't have enough information to give you a definitive answer on that sir. But I believe one of our programs coming up later in January or early February. We're going to be discussing alcoholism in industry in some of the programs that have been created to assist businesses help their employee. So maybe we can answer that question later next month. But thank you for your question and we have another caller standing by good morning. You're on the air. With alcohol as the tranquilizers and Other Drugs you mention it. Your question use the word exactly and so to be precise in my answer. I'd have to say no, but I want to tag on with that to say that marijuana the effects of marijuana on the body is such as interfere with what is call the eye muscle coordination and as such as people become more and more intoxicated with marijuana their ability to operate a motor vehicle or coordinate any other eye muscle activity decreases. So marijuana use can in and with increase use definitely does interfere with a person's ability to operate a motor vehicle. It doesn't work the same way pharmacologically on the body. But if you have any interference from marijuana on the eye muscle coordination, and then you have any interference on the Judgment with the alcohol and the inability to coordinate those two physiological effects. You certainly have a combined way to risk when individuals use alcohol and marijuana and attempt to operate Motor Vehicles. Icims I will let it be done by itself. Judgement, this is something which depends on the dose the amount of substances that it is being taken along with some of the factors. I guess. I really need to say that all I can say by way of summary. Is that both alcohol and marijuana individually or in combination depending on the dose definitely would interfere with a person's ability to operate a motor vehicle. And so that has to be watched very carefully of somebody's going to be using any psychoactive substances in the 10 to 4 then drive. Thank you very much. And if you have a question to to 11550 if you live in the metropolitan area, if you're listening outside the Twin City area, you may use our toll-free Watts line and call us at one. 800-652-9700. I see we have another caller standing by good morning. Do you have a question? Call statement to that effect companies for tonight, which I'm being practical because tonight is New Year's Eve companies such as 3 on that I've heard and some other ones are having a program where where buy one of their employees goes to a party and drink too much, but they will take care of that cab fare for the way on the way home. I think it's a really good idea. And I also think of other companies should follow that example. That's very interesting. Are you aware of that program compare the cost of a cab fare with the cost of Defending a prosecution on a driving while intoxicated charge, there's no comparison whatsoever to the individual and exactly exactly in the economics of the situation don't even speak to the potential individual and social damage. In case some people didn't know about it and maybe something that's of companies are listening and then it may follow the example. Thank you for your comment. We have another listener standing by good morning. You have a question for one of our guest but in the small amount of reading I've done about the organization creates. I only know a little bit about their attitude on responsible drinking and what I wanted to know was am I correct and understand you don't believe in that creates does not hold the same attitudes that Princeton say a hold and that a person who has had a problem with drinking or consuming alcohol or who could be considered an alcoholic should abstain altogether can just create feel that they could actually become responsible drinkers. That's a really difficult question. Essentially. No, there is not a philosophical difference. I doubt that you'd find an organization in town that is more supportive of AA or abstinence for some people then we are at create we do feel that very often treatment can be harmful for people if they don't need it treatments very powerful very coercive processing. No one is ever the same after they've gone through it and that it needs to be used for a cautiously very prudently for a judiciously. What we offer instead is an opportunity for people who are saying I know I can control it. I know that I can handle it to prove that they can and if indeed they can and we saved him a very costly process both emotionally and financially if they cannot then I responsible use group program has given them some very definitive data on their own behavior the supplement what other people have been telling them about their need to give up the use of alcohol like the piggyback on that for a minute. Because I have referred a number of my clients to create and and there is some misconception in general public about what happens to people once they get there and I I guess I wouldn't say that my experience of prey to such that a number of my clients who have been referred to create have gone to the process of attempting responsible drug use have been identified by the people at 3. As that being inappropriate type of behavior for them and then they are sent intern to an inpatient Residential Treatment where they usually learn the philosophies and adopt the philosophies of AA. Thank you. Okay, very good. I understand that. You are helping to implement a program for first-time DWI offenders in Hennepin County. Could you just could you discuss that briefly essentially what we're trying to do in this program is Basically what happens now new when someone is convicted of a DWI and an educational route is chosen by the judge is they go to a series of lectures. We're trying to demonstrate that without lecturing to people they can also learn about the hazards of drinking and driving and our primary purpose just within a basic public health model in this program is to help people move the decision point up about whether or not to drive none of us and including those of us in the studio right now. Is capable of making a rational decision about driving after we've been drinking. I'm I wouldn't doubt but what you've done it. I know I've done it and as I said earlier, the first thing to go with alcohol is our judgment not following that there's a lot of psychomotor impairment and our accuracy decreases and that kind of thing you combine all those things. It's obviously a bad time to drive which is why we have laws about it. So what we're trying to do simply is good people to write goals and plans about how they're going to ever how they how to avoid being in the situation where they have to make a decision about driving after they've been drinking. And we're just trying to get them to move that decision point up. Okay, we have other listeners standing by good morning. You're on the air for your question. Okay. I have a boyfriend who quit drinking by himself about four years ago. He just quit cold turkey and he hasn't had a drop since I need like very much to start again, but responsibly and I wonder what these either of these gentlemen think about a person doing that or perhaps should that person plug into some kind of a program cuz he's just dying to have a beer every Friday night with me, but he's afraid to start by himself cuz he thinks he may get violent and start fighting again like you did for 5 years ago. That is a hefty question obviously on the air and without having extensive conversations with the individual involved would be totally inappropriate for me to give an opinion. I think number one. It's admirable that he was able to do that. A lot of people do and I have an infinite amount of respect for people who are able on their own to say, you know, a lot of bad things seem to happen when I use alcohol, it would be better if I quit and they do it others need more help on the way than that as a general rule and as a general program philosophy of create we've had a number of situations where people are abstinent and they come to us wanting some assistance and injuring back into that world of you. Send doing it in a responsible way. Basically our response to that is why mess with it stopped now for four years, obviously, your life is improved as a result of not using alcohol or I wouldn't think you'd have done it. You're not getting into the fights in the violence that you did when you were using why bother why bother why go through the struggle given the history problems associated with the use previously, maybe our call I could get in touch with you for more information through the create offices. I think that would be the most appropriate thing. Is it okay to give me after the phone number here? Sure. Okay. Our offices are located at 430 Oak Grove, which is right behind st. Marks church near the Guthrie Theater. Or number there is 874-9811. And as I said earlier, right, I really can't be handing out judgments like this over the air it would be totally inappropriate but would be more than happy to to visit with either the car or her boyfriend or those thank you. The time is 8 minutes before 10 and we have more listeners standing by good morning. You have a question for one of our guess somebody who was obviously drunk but I'm thinking of one time only to have a friend of his buy a drink and then give it to him and I was wondering if the barn Burton still be liable for that Talent. And the answer is relatively simple. Yes, the bar will be liable. And in addition to the bar being liable the individual that bought the drink and then serve it to his friend would be liable and you would be liable to borrow would because you knew that was taking place in a lot of the continue the friend would because they would be Distributing it directly to the obviously intoxicated individual very much. Okay. Thank you for your question and we have more color standing by. Good morning. You have a question for one of her guests. Yes, I have a comment. I would like to refute one of the statements made earlier. That's too alcohol can never be beneficial. There's a couple of news releases here. And this one says the American journal of clinical nutrition for October 1976 published part 1 of wine versus ethanol and human nutrition the history-making study by Dr. John Janet McDonald and show them are going to study conducted in the human nutrition research laboratory. But University of california-berkeley was the first to confirm the centuries-old belief that wine taken with food contribute significantly to the absorption of nutrients. I'm glad you've raised that because that I can tell you why that is the use of an of alcohol small amounts try to milk will help in the absorption of nutrients of the food is that you're eating the alcohol is not the nutrient and the reason for that is that the alcohol take me to the stomach then raise the acidic level of the stomach and dust the food is metabolized with digested more rapidly and more able to be absorbed into the system, but it's not the alcohol that is itself the nutrient. Okay, We have more listeners waiting to talk to our guests. Good morning. You're on the air. Last night I was at a conference it to got a new study has shown evidence that there has been some. Universal fit irreversible damage to the DNA about that Is that from alcohol now you? Do the Gene and I'd only the damage of a gene does that person then has children acne passed on and of course, you know, sometimes you wonder why is Children of people become alcoholic to song. I just wanted to do the right thing that is it possible Mark. Can you speak to that question that the alcoholism can be passed on from generation to generation? I can respond to it by saying that that is something which is being research. Now, I'm behaviors we can say that as I mentioned earlier alcoholic parents or total of strength upstairs. Usually their children will have a greater likelihood of running the difficulty with intoxicating substances. The research suggests that is more behavioral models and it is genetic that is also has been some research that indicates that with alcoholics a chronic alcoholics. There is a change in various components in the blood I have not Read any research which suggests that there's a change or an effect on quote of the jeans close quote and my guess is that that is probably not supported by scientific research because I read all the reports that are put out by the National Institute of alcoholism and alcohol abuse each year, and I've not seen mention of that. I think it might be important to note and then that was a good question that There's simply not a single statement. That one could make about alcohol that is not supported by research. Unfortunately, most of the statements conflict with one another so we're left holding the bag and not really knowing as much as we'd like to like a dog and thank you for your question man. We have time for one more quick phone question. Good morning. You have an inquiry for one of our gas. Perhaps some newer research that's going on. But I had heard that it had something to do or relates to the incidence of heart disease and alcohol acting on high-density lipoproteins. And it's I was wondering if one of the gentleman to comment on that but heard anything on on that particular type of research. Yes, I am rid research reports together suggesting that alcohol use has a decrease in the number of difficulties with the cardiovascular system, but the reports that I've read suggested that the end. The reason for this decrease in cardiovascular difficulty is related to the reduction in stress as opposed to a physiological interaction with the with the substances in the in the arteries such as the recall those things are in your arteries. Okay. Thank you for your question mark I'm going to exercise My Prerogative in and ask you one question. I hope you can answer in about 1 minute and I has to do with hangovers. We talked a little bit about it before their countless remedies reported to cure a hangover. What's your best advice? Don't drink don't want me to fill out if a person is going to drink then it's a question of drinking in moderation is of the obvious statements in terms of physiological effect. The thing that is going to have the most effect on on the Alcohol you're taking it is to have enough time in the body and glucose in the body in order to help that stuff get metabolized out. Okay, very good. And the time is approaching 11 a.m. And at this time we'll conclude our morning program. I'd like to thank Doug Morgan of the create drug program and attorney pharmacist Mark Hersman for being my guest this morning. This is Minnesota Public Radio a listener supported Network.

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