50% of the energy we consume is used in heating space it both industrial and residential e and dr. Fairhurst is proved to my satisfaction that if you use Earth shelter, or if you go beneath the surface you you cut those those space heating cost by as much as 75% It's been done and it's been proved. I'm amazed to know what that in Kansas City where we have seen nine hundred acres fully developed for storage use a hundred feet below the surface with the with the concurrent reduction in cost from All Points of View are still building Warehouse is above ground right next to those folks in Kansas City. Is it Gordy was saying it's very difficult to to convince people to change their way explain your attempts and successes failures in amending theThe housing built this past session to include incentives for underground building and encouraging that in the end where that is right now to head to the Housing Finance Agency in conjunction with the energy to see the construct a five or six underground residential units for demonstration purposes. It was very frustrating because we there were 350 million dollars involved in that bill and only 500,000 of it was earmarked for this demonstration project and seems we spent the majority of our time in the conference committee arguing over the 500,000 for underground house in which to me was hard to understand but none the less. It's new. It's difficult to convince people that you're not approaching them with the crazy idea. I've talked we did we were successful.To construct the underground residences and two instrument them fully so that we can collect accurate data both the magical impact of living living in a suburb of an interesting concept and almost too much for some people to pair. I guess. I've talked to Thomas by Professor Thomas University School of Architecture was a Pioneer and underground house housing and he's explain the energy benefits and the fact that the ground is it means that a relatively constant temperature and he seems to think that one of the overriding concerns of most people when they contemplate housing is well, it's simply some people would rather live 30 stories above ground thenAt eye level looking out at the grass instead of the Plains or something. The problem with that is though it we we've seen enough development of architectural. Innovation there. So that really the amenities of living above ground are really all preserved. Perhaps a better bit. Maybe it's the use of the term underground. We should be may be using the term earth-sheltered up all of the architectural designs. I've seen that preserve a window space access to the outside in every room. If you want it with that with those conference Savings of energy the thing that really strikes me is the predictions I hear about the feasibility of solar for space Heating and the predictions. I think that have been made are that is not going to be feasible till after the turn of the century not because the technology isn't here but because it's so capital of intense if it's so expensive. Well if you if you use the Earth Sheltering technique The figures that have been given to me indicate you can you reduce your Solar Capital expenditures by as much as 75% because you just don't need that much energy. So you can have a very small solar collector which will fully meet the space heating needs of an earth-sheltered house and in course reduce the cost to that extent. So so you could use solar today in any I think economically speaking in a Guinness in a nurse shelter structure, what about comparative construction cost between building up and building having but the figures I've heard are that it is the same or down to approximately 25% less because you don't have those kind of cost on the outside walls of the building. For example, you don't have to paint you don't have to decorate you just made no sense as well as energy, hardly any maintenance Never Garden on your roof rather than worry about shingles and painting so. Solar wood would be available really I think the economically in an in an economically feasible way today rather than having to wait till the turn of the century to provide those facing right now at 25% of all the energy we use is related to heating space and your underground. You just don't need that much energy. Where is it called to do some building now, we've got existing structures. Certainly. It wouldn't make sense to knock them down to build underneath. But but where does it make most sense and where it where the demonstration projects going on again? I think that depends on whether you're you're discussing industrial or residential use industrial. I think the uses of industrial e would be probably the most appropriate now because you don't need to preserve the amenities to that extent can go you can tunnel underground. You don't need that back most industrial buildings & Manufacturing type buildings don't have Windows. You talking about residences. Our feeling was that it might be most appropriate to construct these homes on state-owned property. For example, possibly the state parks where we we presently provide housing for the park rangers and their families and that may be the most appropriate perhaps State Fairgrounds is another another possibility where we would have permission to instrumental is homes properly and have permission to to read our data a dad on a regular basis. And I think politically speaking it would be a little difficult to put these demonstration homes on the open market without raising the Specter of the favorable treatment light housing for the park Personnel in our state park system and DNR is indicated to us that they have a plans now to provide new housing insert. They might be the most appropriate places for us to to put these demonstration home now though. I certainly like to see one in the city. Also, the welded the the advantage to of the state parks is that we have hundreds of thousands of people going through those parks in this wood would demonstrate to a large number of people as they go through the parks. What we can do State Fairgrounds is another site that's been has been talked about. What do you do if surface space is limited? Has an aircraft carrier you combine them to see very easily and they're the only surface space required is the landing strip and then all of the syllogism in the Twin Cities just being hypothetical about it constantly building you parking space. It's all above ground yet. There's a small amount of underground parking space that you pay a premium which is always full and the idea of limestone is there the Sandstone is a to me. It seems ideal for underground use have spines going out today varies concourses and you could communicate them below. I think just generally if one were to put an effort into. Thinking about underground juice out of that, but you could get by with a commanding a lot less of a Subspace and with offices Etc located below ground near in a foot. Are ancillary facilities you reduce the noise you reduce the security problem. In other words, if anything should miss the landing strip in other buildings around the it just seems to me that a tremendous number advantages to its kind of thing. So you're not only talking about parking space but hangers and offices as well conceivably. Yes offices baggage handling facilities. The point is that sometimes there's only has even with the underground is only a set amount of space and wants you to try to make sure your optimize that use now I'm parking space may not be the optimum use of that feel grounded. But if it is of it is just think of the advantages of coming back from a trip as a businessman. I'm fine and you don't have to start your car in 30 below whether it's in fact, that's why you you so often You know, it'll be nice and warm and ready to go when you come back. But what did follow them that we could use the underground model in a lot of areas other than airports warehousing in an area that has an all-around. You got launched a pumpkin. If you put that one grade below elevator is bringing the goods up to the surface. You can park on the top and have you could spit all the energy, and the securities. the surface the area that you need for a certain amount of Supermarket space is harmed almost because you just about need as much space for the volcanoes you do for the goods and find area and you can just take this time and time again too many things. We just adding another dimension you see and you can get you can take this single story or two story times the square foot area to get your volume and then you can make it two stories below as well as one above. And so why don't you just reduce the surface area and build cities and up to now we've taking the minimum surface area with gone up with it, 20 30 40 50 stories from now. They I think the time's come to stop making 34538 so down below that kind of facility. Window space are total occupation. that we started out with the notion that residential accommodation would be the last thing that anybody would be interested and we wanted to but many other types of structures below ground so that we could leave this base would be able to enjoy what we have found in factors of people are asking us we've had almost a thousand letters now people What would be the Earth sheltered housing possibilities of the area along the River Bluff near downtown Saint Paul to Shepard Road area? I don't care what one would probably do is put In the downtown area along the Shepherd Road. There's a lot of Industrial Development right now as far as residential accommodation as well. The only residential one I know of is the prison that speed but that's not that would not be my first choice for you might be able to let me put it this way if you were to put some of those industrial facility on the top of Sheffield Dr. The storage tanks and if you were able to put those into the blocks which could go right into the sand then you would have Prime residential property for the top Surface Pro and I think I might be in overall impression. I further along Shepherd Road and closer towards the Mendota Bridge does quite a lot of excavated space already there and I think that Storage and other facilities could very well be used for the space is already developed.