baby Tula we made you cry. Let me know. Over you baby do love. Work will be looking at a parenting for the next hour this morning looking at parents children families and ourselves and listeners will be able after a few minutes to call in questions to three. Guess this morning. We have Bev Wendy was a social worker at the South Side neighborhood Nursery School in Minneapolis. She works with parents of children with special needs Debbie. Anderson is here. She's from the Hennepin County sexual assault service and they are looking at the sexual exploitation of children and ways to stuff that and an Elwood is here. She developed the Minnesota Early Learning design, which is a parent education done by volunteer experience parents. They have groups that cover parenting skills Child Development Health Care nutrition and so forth and they work with parents up until the child is 3 years old 2 years old Why Don't We Begin and perhaps you should introduce yourselves as you speak the first time so our listeners learn to recognize Your voices and they will know when they ask questions who directs them too. But why don't we begin by talking about the kinds of of pressures on parents and the kinds of fears that parents have this is a complex society and it said that it's a hard place to raise kids would like to begin with that. Well, I think there's a whole litany and write an education is everyone knows that but I can list a few the number of women working the number of single parents. They increasing the divorce rate teenage pregnancies violence in the family mobile Society nuclear family changing roles of women lack of formal preparation for the parenting job and a result as a result of these and many other concerns and and many more that we could all list, I think parents need help. Would you agree with that? You have anything to add WR Bell? A lot of what we've been doing in the last year is and some some ways probably making them issue somewhat more complex by starting to really look at the rights of children. And then what we're starting to see with that what's the impact on adults? What's the what are the rights of adults? But in my opinion more importantly, what are the responsibilities of parents and what I am seeing on a number of in a number of ways is the sexual exploitation of kids and sometimes the physical abuse of kids and often times in our society how we really haven't taken much of a stand on the right of a child to have good parents. Which is a different way of looking at it from before we don't usually consider children's rights. I don't think children are almost considered property in a way that they are historically they really have been also legally much of what we've said is the state has no right into the family and some of what I've been saying lately is on the other hand. What is the states obligation to protect a child who's being a victim of a crime only lot of times it went describe the physical and sexual abuse of children as a crime. But if you did that same kind of behavior to somebody down the street, it would be called a crime and often times what else I see is that We we don't seem to look at the beginning of the process with kids that often times. We will wait until kids get into the system as an offender and not look at their early victimization and we will say look at this child who has so many problems. They'll grow up to not have some of the parenting skills, but it's so often when you look at the beginning of that child's existence. They've had some very damaging kinds of things done to them, which really pretty much in stops him from being able to do some parenting and future see you attempt to isolate the child and not look at the ripped, Well look at the roof, but you know beginning it looking looking at some really kind of violent or severe things that are done to children by parents. And it's really kind of looking at the negative aspect of parenting. But often times. We think in order to know some of the positive aspects. We have to look at the negative aspects of it. Anan and Bev could you talk a little about the ways that you handle? I mean you are both into prevention situations in terms of dealing with young children and and parents of young children. What do you do? Let me start I'm Bev and I'm with the South Side Nursery School. I feel I think in between what and and Debbie are doing we are dealing with parents that have had problems either in their own background or are now having difficulties with their own kids Special. Needs can mean a whole lot of different things. It can mean the developmental delays kids are not developing or not growing the way they should be for their age. It can mean they're they're not learning how to get along with other kids other their own parents other adults that sort of thing a lot of the kids we deal with have language delays. We have three year olds that can barely speak. Although there are intelligent a lot of what we're doing is trying trying to prevent Happening to these children what has happened to their parents when they were children and one way of doing it as by offering a lot of support and empathy and understanding and another way is by educating and that's something similar. I think that we're doing to what we on the other hand deal with ordinary parent facing the ordinary tasks of raising our children, and we assume that everyone liked us needs information. Everyone needs support a particular one needs information with the first child and we've assumed also that and of course there's lots of backup for beginning in the pregnancy at the first job can and can make a difference in the preparation in the healthcare and then getting a good start and end looking at children and looking at themselves. And so we we tend to to identify ourselves with ordinary parents without any deficit assumptions at all and give them information on psychological support that we believe in the X. Other experts believe what will help him do the job? One thing about this Society while there's no preparation for marriage and there's no preparation for child-rearing which I think is probably the most serious important thing person would take on perhaps you could talk specifically. Not not you I gather Bev deal with problems that are there. I mean you don't start as early as as an E2 in heading things off perhaps you could talk specifically about the problems with the children and parents have them how do parents feel for example, when when they couldn't how do they get into a crisis situation? And how do you prevent that? What effect does it have on the kids? Some some of what we're doing in our office is an early prevention program in the sense of giving parents more skills or discussion or opening up probably the discussion for the first time ever as far as what kind of touching is nurturing and caring and what kind of touching is exploitive and a lot of times what I see with parents is there's no permission to talk about these kinds of issues very early. And what happens is that most families suppress this kind of talk because we have previously learned from our parents not to talk about sexuality or touching that it's a very big taboo area and the denial of it often times really enables the abuse to occur. So a lot of times I talked about just developing some skills and getting some permission to talk about this very sensitive area. We use skills development to as well as support then perhaps one example that I can give is that many of us really don't know at what stage of child is ready to respond. The many of us don't understand what happens at the age of 18 months or two years in the way that the child responds knowing that knowing about Child Development knowing what can really be expected of the child makes an enormous difference in the parents response and consequently to the child. So we use both information on the psychological support of yes, I'm going through that too. I've been there can be a tremendous big help. I can remember one of the mothers that are School saying I thought my three-year-old was the only one that couldn't sit still for more than 30 seconds and she was climbing the walls thinking that she had a real strange son. And he was just a real normal rambunctious little boy. I see the same kind of thing happened with sexual issues in children or the whole issue. Do of touching for instance there when kids are 3/4 and 5 years old almost all kids play doctor or body gain a love poop in toilet talk at that stage. That's normal healthy sexual development for kids. And when I ask adults how many of them play doctor when they were little nearly 90% of the population will say yes I did but often times we will deny that stage and our own children because we don't have the permission to know about it which ends up in parents sometimes shaming kids at that early stage making the kid feel bad in the parent feel bad and it's just a permission to start to discuss this area. Yeah, I guess that's one of the things that we feel most strongly about. We don't believe there's any one way to have the parent there are many many strategies and approaches to Parenting into teaching parenting skills and a none of them has emerged as as be one way and I don't quite believe it really will I We think our job is to provide the best possible information that we can two parents in the most supportive setting that we can provide and then at the choices there's they must they must decide for themselves. Double you had given me an article to read before this program which which said that the touching infants or or a lot of tender loving care heads off all sorts of adult problems and child abuse sexual exploitation on healthy children healthy sexual adult crimes and food high in many ways. Some of parenting is so simple yet so complex and that's why I always come back to really the touching issue in the sense that James Prescott who's from NIH talks about kids who get touching and caring and nurturing in early infancy are a lot less violent prone as adults. And I am seeing this also with the kids who've been physically or sexually assaulted that often times. The adult offender has that kind of History. The adult rapists are the adult sex offender and that we really parenting in some ways is so simple but yet it is so tremendously complex and it's a growing process, you know, we all grow up we grow as our children grow and it's a daily kind of process when you're talkin about touching fit fuel made me think about how we as parents are always so afraid of spoiling kids and one way that we think we're spoiling them is by holding them or picking them up when they cry and for especially for new babies. I think that's probably the most important thing they learned about they learn trust through their skin. They learn you know, that they're going to be picked up there going to be taken care of there going to be cuddled and that's the most important the very first learning task. It's it's a very sensitive issue. I have phone for the public yet. When we look at other kinds of cultures that are not as violent as ours their there's much more nurturing and caring that goes on. And that often times in our society, we talked a lot about our violence, but we don't talk about where that is because coming from where is the beginning of it? And it's it's I think we need more prevention programs. We need more openness with different people to talk with one another as a mother. I remember not being very secure and talking with other mothers about my parenting in the beginning. That's why I really think Anne's program is good because it's also a neighborhoods of people talkin and giving each other some support and care. You should say some private business men and women pregnant with her first child in the neighborhood groups and their lead by other men and women who are experienced enable young parents who had a lot of training by us about how to build a support group and in the curriculum We begin in the first pregnancy and continue with them and grew in the same groups until the child is 18 months to 2 years old. Another thing that's interesting and I think helps to build the closeness is that the children are not very far apart in age. We recruit within a three-month age range, but if you're worried about when the begin saw that you don't have to listen to that person was worried about the terrible twos. It just doesn't mean anything to you at that time. One of the point I wanted to make and I know that you're all here to is this business of self-confidence and self-esteem. I don't want to give the sense that one needs an enormous amount of information that it's Rich really helpful, but one doesn't have to go to college. There are certain good things that that that we pick up but I think having confidence in oneself believing in oneself is probably the best thing you can pass on to kits. And in order to do that you have to have as a fair measure of it yourself and I guess that's one of the biases we have that is a very difficult thing. I work at at Harriet Tubman battered women shelter as a volunteer and I see women of different income levels who are just be stepped with problems who have very little control over themselves or their own life at the point. They're there to say nothing of their kids. I mean, it's a it's a very difficult situation how do parents get into that sort of crisis situation in NY importantly, what do they do to get out? If you can't reach them when you know, they're pregnant part of being in it is isolation and not having contact with others. I think you get out of it by sharing with others finding out that other people are meeting the same problem sharing a I think you come away from sessions sharing sessions or concerned sessions thinking well, I'm doing a pretty good job after all don't you find that? I think that sharing part of it is really important to in for us to a lot of tents for parents to share some of their pain and then there's less giving of the pain to your children and there's a lot of anxiety and being a parent. It's a daily anxiety situation. A lot of people don't realize is that the fact of having a child creates a crisis for you and your and your family and it's a very normal part of life and I I think we tend to look at crisis store it at So I want to say problems as being something bad and it once we start dealing with that is a normal part of life and that we can deal with in a healthy way then we won't don't need to be so ashamed about it. I think it as I was parenting and the coffee klatches the times when I would talk with my neighbors and my friends and my peers I used to feel a little guilty when I share it to my anxiety symptom of my failures and yet I see now that I belong to a babysitting Co-op as well as professionally and that's one of our major reasons for getting together as we can all say I know I have had it with my child or we can call one another up and say can you please watch my kid for an hour? I can't stand him and that's all right, and we agree that that's that that part is okay. I think a real important part of you were asking about getting out of Crisis. I really important part of it. In addition to the support is being able to step back a bit and look at Alternatives. I think when people get into crisis whether it's a life crisis or or something from outside happening that you tend to just react without thinking about the consequences without thinking that you may weather choices women I think to pick up on on your babysitting Co-op, which is an interesting thing tend to be isolated anyway, or that's very easy to happen. No matter where they live for their, you know, particularly if they if they're in a bad Myrtle situation you get real defensive in your self-esteem Falls in your afraid to reach out and ask for help from anyone and it's interesting that that that you should talk about about that that I think the hot lines that have proliferated are some sort of response to that. It's an okay Safeway to break through your isolation in personal and to reach out for help. How much make witches in a one route that's open? As far as stepping back and looking at alternative some Bales like what do you do when you have a parent and a child and in a bad situation? Hey, the first thing I the very first thing I try to do is give my permission if it's important or try to get the parent to take permission to say that it's okay to feel really crummy about what's going on and just get through that part of it. The next thing then is to email to start looking at what they can do, you know and not like not just keep replaying the same old things and keep redoing responding to things exactly the same way. I think it's important that I'm not doing things for them. Give me a responsibility. Give me some some concrete examples of you saying an example of a situation and in the kinds of Alternatives, there are. Let me think going to talk about something else out there who are in the immediate crisis situation. I think that's very important. And at the same time I think the institutions really have to start to rethink some of this process and that I think we are as a society evolving and changing and I think what we do with children is very crucial and by that, I mean different people in different professions Physicians and lawyers, especially I think the legal Community needs to look more at the rights of children that we need to support different institutions who want to look at some of this whole process and we as a community and possibly start to look at a different philosophy that since in some ways we the three of us have said the children or raising children. Is probably one of the most important things that you can never do that. The rest of society also should respond to that and that we can't expect parents alone to do excellent parenting in a whole system or society that doesn't support in any way that very goal that were talking about on the part of it but public-at-large about the critical nature of the early years and I tell you one thing that we see that's that's tremendous is more interesting the part of parents We Are Men that's what I was about to that effect if that's possible. You know in the early in the earliest years the nursing or feeding sometimes is not possible to share if a woman is nursing but it's really exciting to see that men. Do I think differently from from past and Rihanna and well that's certainly not a solution in all cases are may be impossible. Sometimes I think that's extremely nourished and Debbie were talking about the way institutions can support parents. I think that dealing with Father's is one and it was one real important way right now almost man either are or think they should be the sole support of their family. They get tied into 8 to 5 jobs and working overtime. It would it would be really nice if companies could find ways of letting people work part-time letting maybe husbands and wives or people share position so that they really can't have spent more time and take more responsibility for the family. And the flexibility and they're part of employers. I think it's beginning to happen. I hope it continues not much but it is you might Debbie talk a little bit more about the kinds of work you do in terms of a prevention of child abuse sexual abuse and also in Prosecuting abusers. I mean what happens to a parrot head gets to that point at what we're starting to do really is look at what are some crimes against children in that we will we have really not discuss crimes against children with that we have set in many ways that you want adult is not allowed to do such and such Behavior against another adult but if an adult has that's a very same kind of behavior that would be described in criminal terms against a child. We often will turn our backs, you know, many ways what I always say is if you'd Go to the person next door. You can probably bet that the police car will be there shortly. If you do it to your own child most of the time we just don't want to say that it's going on. So what we started to do is look at it in. Look at it in a whole system that for instance Hennepin County Services are a family of services and often times. The family of services are as dysfunctional as the family were trying to serve at the services themselves fight and bicker with each other and protect their own professional ground and say it's not my problem give it to somebody else and what we're trying to do now is build a communicating Network. So and in dealing with a family that has violence going on in the family and we're starting to see a lot more information come out that Family Violence will later be Street violence so that we will all pay for it in society. So what we're starting to do is look at the rights of children when crimes have been committed against a child that adult has put in the position of responsibility not the child be responsible in the adult is essentially given an option for treatment. Keeping the family together and building it and be more supportive or to be punished, you know, and some of the things that I've been talkin about is how does the criminal justice system become more connected possibly with the treatment system. Is that possible and let's start to discuss the philosophical points of view. And how are we changing in this area. Dealing just with adults who are either victims of crime or offenders, but starting to look earlier at where is the Behavior coming from? I see the connection between those people who are victimized over and over and over off and having histories of victimization as children those people who are defendants in our criminal justice system off and having the same kind of history as children of being a victim and essentially nobody does anything about it. That's a fascinating question. I I covered the legislature last session and noticed they Failed to get through a stronger a child abuse law which would have allowed. Well encourage reporting have allowed you to report to a lot of different places and would also have define neglect as a crime. We're really going to need I think two as a community and a state a lot more discussion in this area. What is parenting what what are the responsibilities of parenting? Can you do anything you want to to your child and essentially not be responsible for it is your child a person whose only staying with you for so long and has the right to his or her own development to become a person in society who has all the skills of somebody else does down the street. And that a lot of times we just haven't looked at this legally either. Beven, and an you work with with parents what do parents think about that when they come to you with children either born or unborn? How did they see their roles? That's very difficult to answer. I think they're in the people that I see don't have that role yet. They are there concerns are what is the new child going to do the relationship and we have single parents as well. So that that I don't mean to infer always couples they worried about what the child is going to do for them. I think the biggest fears are that I've been coping it is going to make it make it more difficult to relationship has been a good one is it kind of disrupted letting those are very valid and Lucid concerns as to their parenting role? I think it's rather fuzzy. I guess maybe I'm thinking about myself. I would be better to stay when I first became apparent I decided and I wanted to be an excellent parent but this. I could be but I wasn't sure how the hell to do that. Right? And I think that everybody wants to be a good parent wants to say I'm going to be a bad parent. I'm going to end up hitting my child or abusing my child. Absolutely not I think people do everyone does about the best that they can. But the old the older conditioning when does come up that apparent can't stop their behavior and it is either sexually abusing a child or physically abusing a child. How do we look at the right of that child not to have those kinds of things done when adults and Society have a right to go someplace and stop that same type of violence that's happening to them. Industrial Revolution children were explored it at work situations. And I how long does it take people soon responded that there may have been other economic reasons why children were taken out of the off the assembly lines, but the very soon it seems to me I Society responded and said no that's bad for kids and then litigated against it and now that's sort of where we are with this rights of children in terms of a few sexual abuse him and physical abuse, aren't we? I see that and I see a number of adult incest victims who Really the problem was never discovered or what was occurring to them often times. They see how damage they can get in the sense that they don't have the skills. They may become the problems that were done to him run away or drug addiction or you know, any number of things attempted suicide and so often their behavior is coming from their early experiences as a child and often times their parents had the same type of History so that actually what I'm kind of talking about is where the situation can't be control because a parent wants to change their behavior. How do we give some Assurance two children that they have the same right to develop his other kids too. That's an interesting question. Do you feel ready at this time to start taking questions from the listening sure, perhaps we should tell listeners that if the if they have any questions of any of these three women that you may call if you live in the Twin Cities called 29120. F-22 that's 291 12:22 and if you live outside the Twin Cities, you may call toll-free on the Watts line, which is one 800-652-9700. That's again one 800-652-9700 while we're waiting for questions to come in. Maybe we could talk a little bit about the role of of the family. I was interested again Debbie in the article that you gave me which mentioned that extended families were a lot healthier for children and child racing them small nuclear isolated one sets of RI general statement. But but how important is a family in the reason? I think it's very important or else a flexible than the inelastic family which which a lot of the a lot of people have I think that's important. But not that I think we have to make a cautionary note sometimes extended family can be intrusive and really really impede people as they pursue parenting as they wished but it's best. I think it provides support and confidence and information if your child is biting your app to go to somebody and say say I remember and your child was a biter. What did you do? We haven't we have a question. We have a caller on the line. Go ahead. You're on the air. In this child abuse thinking I have written. I don't know how many letters I have set up before the County Commissioners scream my head off. What makes me very angry is the there's a parenting and not parents Anonymous program and at the end of September will be discontinued. I can't even talk. It's such a program has been very good for parents to come to where they can be anonymous and will they get help? How can we I mean, I've written two congressmen and Senators everybody in the United States over the whole situation in this country on child abuse is becoming more and more. I read the Miss magazine article and nauseated me ideas of child infection and pronography civil liberties Union stand. I don't understand that at all, and I'm going to tell him I Value system is Gone Bananas. We are number one in the world but not in anything but child abuse. We are the last country in the world to live. You have a right to be annoyed as we start to look at this we're going to really this is why I was talking about it. We're going to have to have a philosophical change that because I say that is historically we have only looked at children as property and that as we start now legally to look at the rights of children. It's going to be somewhat of a slow process for us to really reevaluate this and to look at this when you look at what you what has been done to children in the past that it was not illegal at one point long ago to kill a child to name a child any number of things like that. So it's an evolving kind of process. Also. I look in some ways. Child abuse is the same as chemical dependency 15 years ago. We deny chemical dependency now, we're starting to look at sexual abuse of children and it's an almost evolutionary process for us to understand more about ourselves. Fathers me know and this time I'm sorry to say I have written about this to the protocol pro-life people as you can stick your nose and uterus is but you can't edit abusing a child. That's already alive in a where are you? Where's the Hue and cry about a three month old baby. That's a tunneled. Where are you awake at night to think that this kind of thing goes on and people keep saying things like the time to see is a home stop it. Hurting me well as adults to when would that we really have to first of all I think stop denying our own history of childhood a lot of adults who were abused in that we deny or we say we don't remember it. Then that's part of the process. And another part is I think bringing the questions are coming up in as they start to come up with a number of us are going to get very excited about it for how long we've been sitting on it. And for how long we've been denying this entire area. And I think now there are number of people and you can see it in the Press who are really starting to deal with the issue. The issue is coming out all over the place and it's it's some ways the kind of way we dealt with alcoholism 15 years ago when we first started to say, yes, it is here. It is a problem. There is a book called weeping in the Playtime of others by Kenneth wouldn't I would suggest that everybody lives at listening and a pastor? They read that book. It's a terrible situation, but I can't do anything about it and they wont do anything about it. Then I give up on the human race using children as institutionalized. There is a doctor in Texas and it's a place where he said that children who are mentally retarded be put in darkened rooms and kept there all the time. Now this is a place that receives federal funds and millions and millions of dollars and poured into this place. That's that's a lot of what I'm saying as far as the institutions really starting to look at this issue. Thank you very much for calling. We have another caller on the line. Go ahead you're on the air. Parenting but I've got a young daughter e14 very mature physically a little bit of a behavioral problem. And now we never have bothered whether you know, you take a shower you walk over to your bedroom with your dude or not neutered. He's never bothered but in the last six months is 9 months now and this girl will decide to come to the table in their underwear or something like that and I'll tell her to go get some clothes on you'll come to the table like that and then it makes these remarks like that, you know, you like it then and you know, it makes me feel like she thinks I'm interested in her sexually, which I am not and I don't know how to handle this thing. I had immediately what happens to me is I become angry. You know, what were some of what we're starting to see is that the issues of touch really have to be addressed in the family by all of us so much to kiss and hug a three-year-old in the way you kiss and hug a three year old is somewhat different. The way you touch a seven-year-old and the way you touch a seven-year-old. It's very different than the way you touch a 14 year old or a 15 year old and as we start to re-evaluate and look at some of these areas for instance. I know a lot of parents when will Express her number fathers have expressed to me when my daughter reached thirteen and she was changing and she was becoming a woman. I realized I had to start to relay to her in a different kind of way. And the way that I chose to relate to her was to squeeze her around the shoulders and give her a kiss on the cheek and say I think you are pretty and you're getting prettier every day and still remain in the position of being dad to her and not one of her boyfriends and that's the responsibility of being a parent and we've not have permission at in society to really look at this and a lot of times what we end up doing is getting really icky about it and stay Of saying how can I be a father Angie? My 14 year old is really becoming much more sexual and attractive and I support that but I'm certainly not going to use her sexuality or attractiveness and I'm going to say I am here. I'm dad and you're my daughter and keep some of those lines firm, but I think you're awfully pretty someday. You're going to go away from me. I'm not going to marry you and you're with me just long enough to kind of grow up and get off into the world and do your own parenting and life. We have another caller on the line now. Go ahead. You're on the air. Double you might be talking about the one thing that I have seen in the layout and Hennepin County at least is that we started to look at some of these cases in court and I think that our court system in our country is a way for us because it is public and it is open to re-evaluate issues philosophical approaches. And how do we handle some of these things? I've seen some of the court cases that we had in Hennepin County change rules and regulations change laws because the issues were aired and they're open for the press to also further help us and discuss and look at such issues. Talking about how you're going to really help call for help when they get a run around for months and months from the local authorities that they have to deal with in Hennepin County. I see a lot of it changing. We are writing new procedures and protocol. We are referring certain cases that are criminal to the police department other cases that are being referred other places in the county attorney's office. We are supporting parents Anonymous and looking at the legal issue reporting or not reporting. I think it takes public groups our neighborhood groups such as and US schools, you know that we need to look at it on a lot of levels and we also that we can't as a society just say those bureaucrats won't change anything but gas Impossibly your own neighborhood group to say let's have a discussion group about these issues. Then let's start to bring them to downtown to bring him to the County Commissioners or whatever good perhaps you could react to that a little too at UC parents. I gather that are caught up in between agencies and in a large social system dealing with welfare and this and that and being torn and 59 different directions. How do you handle that? What do you do? I listen to my voice of your phone. So that sounds real different part of what we do is try to help them sort out what they want. And a lot of what I do is try to coordinate with what other agencies are doing so that maybe we were working together to help people instead of getting into Turf battles and then each of us trying to stick up for our own thing in terms of talking to the legislature and we're doing lots of that we're doing lots of also talking to foundations and people that have money to give for good causes. And people can be interested in the Arts. They can be interested in animals. And now we're pushing also to have people be interested in children. About the business of parody and how critical and crucial it is. It may take a while till it gets down to solve your credit problems. But I think people are changing we have another call or nor are we prepared to take another car? Go ahead and run the air. Thank you. I'm calling to say something earlier about his fourteen-year-old and insert that he got sent really satisfied because he didn't get an answer. He just I think he wants an answer he has problem and he he wants to know what to do with I want to hold you want to do. I think I think you're partly right about that. There are a number of places that people can start to go. They can call the sexual assault services in Hennepin County Attorney's office and I will be glad to have a more of a discussion in this area because of its personalness and also to do some possible referring to some family kinds of play. Suspect could look at what's really going on in the family that is causing this. There are more and more places starting to deal more and more therapist more and more Community program starting to deal with this very issue. That's one thing. I there isn't I hesitate to give a real quick easy answer to that because it is much more involved than just what was being sad. And I I just hesitate to give a real quick answer. Did you say like where he could go? Sure, he can call the Hennepin County Attorney's Office sexual assault services and I will be very happy to give him a list of agencies that are beginning to deal with this family children service in Minneapolis is starting to deal with it as well as a number of other places. You're welcome. We liked it remind callers again that if you do have questions and you live in the Twin Cities area, you can call 291-1222. That's 291-1222, or if you live outside the Twin Cities area. You may call toll-free on the Watts line. That's one 800-652-9700. Once again, that's one 800-652-9700. I'd like to get back again Debbie to your work in integrating the bureaucracy or whatever you'd like to call it. How do you handle a parent who has abused a child? What kind of a system does it go through two children testify. What what kind of problems do you get into what's beginning to happen and always use the example of a child who was sexually abused at home. What would happen or could happen is that say she reported it to somebody in the school system a teacher then the school systems have a social worker the principal a teacher and the nurse generally on a team to evaluate some of it then they would make a report either to the police department and a plainclothes detective may come and talk to the girl or to Hennepin County Child Protection. More than likely the call would go to Hennepin County Child Protection. Then if it's a crime against the child, they would report it to the police. Also, the child may have an evidentiary exam to make certain that medically she or he is sounded doesn't need any further Medical Care and as the issue would evolve. It may come up to the county attorney's office in the Criminal Division if it's a sex charge or it may also go to our court unit for a dependency and neglect hearing to see whether the child maybe should be removed for a while and the parents problems looked at because I really think when parenting and partnership is closed in the family these things don't really occur. the way also then what happens is that if there would be enough evidence to prove that this did occur to the child. Then the parents are going to be given an option for treatment or punishment in incest cases. I've only seen in Hennepin County one parent go to prison. He was sexual with his children his stepchildren and children in the neighborhood. But what I am seeing is the parents going to treatment and I friend Center on occasion talk to a mother and dad just this week and she said I'm glad everything happened when I was going through it. It was horrible. I thought it was going to be the end of our family and it really turned around not to be in the reason. She said it's at the services are beginning to be connected. There's a lot more people than used to be and my husband did go to court and he did go to jail and it was terrible while it was happening. But I now think it was the best thing that tap could have happened to us. What about people who are worried about themselves and their own behavior. Can they with confidentiality find help is that Easy enough and can you come in on that? There's a law right now that you must report all physical and sexual abuse to the local authorities Welfare Department police department in the county attorney's office were looking at the legal issue of what do we do in situations when parents want to go get some care and we certainly don't want it then drag them through the court system when they want to change their behavior so that we really provide a network of services for people to go and voluntarily get care. And then for people who won't change their behavior to end up possibly going through the system to monitor their future behavior and given an option to change it. The procedures really are not down pat yet. We're still are communicating and working to work these things out but it is happening on a daily and also weekly basis that we're meeting on a lot of different levels. Find go ahead you're on the air of the Buick and I think you people in Hennepin County are to be commended for what you're doing to find a new job. But I would like to make a proposal that that your pioneering work go farther and deeper deeper because I feel a need a premarital examination like the mmpi are similar screening process just like some states. We have a health check a blood test requirements premarital the truth bring out if the potential parents have a personality problem, which might manifest itself in a potential child abuse situation number one. Number to mini of the Orthodox and politically as I would interpret it right wing thanking parents might resent this because they might interpret this is similar and policies as he comes in dancing to treat their wives or female children as chattel but children in general that they have, you know, the father familiar so much authority over their children and they don't feel that Society has a duty to oversee it sometimes intervene in dangerous are crisis situation. and they might resent this place of course and adolescents daughter and I can see I have not experienced is that I can see that the neighborhood or the child how much responsible the parents of insurance from home. I'd like to build on that if I could I think that most people has many children where they have several female children and then playing and associating with that child might be more than what I'm trying to invite to my child. And so that girl might be cancer. The competition between who is more feminine who is more flirtatious and she might display such Attitudes by mistake in my homeboys me identify significant problem. But what I wanted to build on was this peer pressure thing. I think we all have responsibilities perhaps each of us can take responsibility to say here is how I would deal with that or make suggestions. I think each of us can help one another and that might be a useful useful tool. Also, I think we need a lot more research in some of these areas to find out how what does happen in that very very early process of development with kids who really does have more influence the peer group or do the parents really have more influence. We have another caller on the line. Go ahead. You're on the air. I'm wondering if the abused child is one that probably he know probably wasn't wanted. And then secondly, I guess as part of a follow-on if that's the case aren't our social and religious and legal institutions to blame and that they make it difficult for people who don't want to be parents to not be parents and I'm thinking for example be opposition to abortion the social impossibility of a married woman to give a child up for adoption and so on and so forth to questions are can be connected in but may not be I think I'm talking to parents that I have talked with it. Either have abused their kids or were very close to it. I think for a hundred percent of them. May have had problems during pregnancy may have had difficulty with some with their children when they were babies. I think without a doubt they still love their children and they do not want to they don't want to hurt them. I agree that women should have the option to choose what's going to happen to them. That's their portion issue is really sticky. I think it's real hard for anyone to make that decision for anyone else. Would anyone else like to comment? Locate perhaps you could talk about each of you before it's time to go. What do you look for in in problem children, or how do you spot potential problems evolve by Imagine had experience with that and in what do you look for in terms of behavior? I guess some of what I'm starting to see with kids who've been sexually abused is the number of kids who will possibly run away or get into drugs or maybe some juvenile prostitution. I see a lot of times incest victims may have a whole series of medical problems that they may attempt suicide. They may have a school performance record, but then they also maybe just the person that nobody even sees in school that the girl if she was gone. You would never know it again. Also, I see boys and girls being sexually exploited not just girls those are some of the behaviors that I have seen with kids with with a sexual assault area with younger kids quite off and you seem very provocative Behavior might be something that's real kids assaulting other kids hitting a lot. It might be just the opposite might be a lot of withdrawn very quiet. Very free. Type of behavior something that we see real often in the nursery school. I'm not sure what the connection is or if there is one see a lot of language delays people who are not able to talk about how they feel we're not able to say what they want. They act physically without being able to put it into words. I have to say that that we deal with design are not people that are identified as having any kinds of problems and moreover. We're offering service at the parents and and not directly to children. But I guess what I would that be concerned about would be people who wouldn't be able to talk about concerns and who would deny that there any concerns at all? I think that would perhaps alert us to the fact that we might we might be seeing trouble ahead. And and what are the resources in the city quickly work working parents call for help Hulu Fiola Crisis coming on or feel that they're in trouble or just people generally worried and having a crisis it all weather hotline that I'm not totally familiar with. Once again. Mine is the other side of the Corn we have put together with God in the crawfish with the cooperation of the childbirth education Association a listing of all the resources educational resources for parents of preschool children, and we put together a directory of that which you which we can then make available to people as I say the hotline by I assume are included in Phi don't know about the rest of you can probably answer better for kinds of sexual exploitation problems or assault problems with a child can call the Hennepin County. Reed's office sexual assault services and we can refer you to another place that would deal specifically with the issue that you brought up. There is also a county information and referral service that you can call and state real briefly what your question is and they can give a whole listing of possible resources. I'm going to get information referral service. I think so. I there's a phone number that you can call. I'm not sure if this is their number, but call 348-3000 and they will give you the number. I learned to okay, I'd like to thank all of you very much for coming Bev blendi from the the South Side nursery school and Debbie Anderson from Hennepin County sexual assault and an Elwood from the Minnesota Early Learning design. You should stay tuned next week at at 10 for the Cutaway Twin Cities forecast for today is variably cloudiness hot and humid with a Chance of occasional thunderstorms today through Sunday high today will be in the lower 90s low tonight will be near 70 and high Sunday will be in the middle 90s stay tuned for voices in the wind, which is coming up next on listener-supported radio. Angela my child you can't do that. I won't get in. Legends of God Over you love you. Love you. Love you, love.