I don't know how much the younger generation knows about Thomas Wolfe. How many of red Thomas Wolfe? You know, he wrote the book. You can't go home again, and I believe that until I came out of prison and I came out of prison, January 14th. 383 weeks later. I was enrolled in Columbia University. And I knew that the what he said was just not so because I felt that I was at home again at school. You can imagine that the 18 and 1/2 years in prison what it does for one's mind. I'm talking about the lack of intellectual stimulation and that's going back to school where I was able to as they say exercise my mind. It was practically like going back into the room. I felt that much at home. I know that students sometimes tend to become blase and they think that this is the way it is, but the for those of you who don't know any better later, you will look back at this time at as a time of ferment of the mind because really what goes on outside and rest of the world. Most of the time is pretty much stagnation. 25 years have passed Since Julius and Ethel and I were convicted. I was March of 1951 and events of come around full-circle. I am no longer the defendant. I stand before you now as an accuser. And it is only a matter of time before. The government will stand indicted by all thinking people. Recently, we getting material under the Freedom of Information Act. I think you're all acquainted with it. And this is material which they in Washington think it's fairly harmless, but even their harmless material, can you turn down the it's booming a little too much but even this harmless material really indicts the government. Imagine a judge who 25 years after a case gets all excited because there's a play on Broadway about the case and they've been to reviews in the New York Times favorable reviews on the case and he calls up the FBI in Washington and says we got to do something about it. We we can't let this just go on that is all this people will get the wrong idea about these people and this isn't the FBI Files about a judge who supposed to be more or less aloof and really not involved or can you imagine an FBI? When I was in prison, my wife was going around the country speaking to various people and the FBI organized a special project to go around and try to undercut whatever she had to say if she had appointments to see certain ministers. This is more less a matter of public knowledge. They would go around send people to see The Minister's themselves and they would fill the ministers or the whoever it was a prey Eunice would all kinds of of lies about her. What all this is coming out into the open now under the Freedom of Information file and I have some of it here later any of you who want to see it. It's it's incredible. But I'm under No Illusion that the power structure Washington is afraid of the truth now. 25 years has a way of making things safe. You remember Joan was made a saint 25 years after she was burned as a heretic by the church and the church established with it. That's I'm at that time didn't think there was anything contradictory about it and the public service TV made a TV show about this case a couple of years ago. The public service TV, you know is funded by The Establishment and they've been various films made and all of that. But generally the power structure is not worried so much about what took place 25 years ago being revealed. I'm more concerned about what took place five years ago of what is more concerned about what is taking place today? The last 25 years. I've seen a tremendous change in our country we go back to the. When McCarthyism with its Fierce talk the land to today when we have such cynicism much of it induced by McCarthyism which is still so close to us and which recently has been resurrected. Thanks to our notorious president. If I'm going to talk about the case at all to understand that you have to understand it within the context of history and the context the history of speaking about is McCarthyism. And yet I will tell you the younger people in the audience that from my experience. And speaking to you on a one-to-one basis. It becomes almost impossible for people who have not undergone experienced that. To understand what it was like But one way to approach the. US to approach it through the trials that took place during that. It's too bad that they teach history by way of the wars that took place. I think it would be much more effective this if history was taught by the political trials that took place during. Because the clinical trials are much more revealing of what actually transpired that the wars. Jerry R. I'll trial Julius and Ethel myself was supposed to have been the biggest one of the Cold War there also the trials of Alger Hiss. You may remember. There was a Trials of the Hollywood ten. There was a Trials of the Communists all over the country the kind of slim New York and then the lights in LA, to send Cleveland. The rest of the country of other trials of people who were tried princes in the trade unions the leaders of the Trade union had to sign an affidavit saying there's never been a member of the Communist party and dozens of them were tried for perjury during this trial because they claimed that they had been members of the Communist Party. What are all these trials demonstrate Above All Is that the Judiciary in our country abdicated its responsibility, you know back in elementary school, you learn that three arms of the government and the way you have the system of checks and balances but during the. Of a karthi is which was really a. Of Crisis. Did you just Sherry gave up its responsibilities a separate arm of the government and went along. And we're ordinarily the courts might have looked askance at what the government was doing and trying to prosecute people during this. They look the other way and everything went in a courtroom and I'll give you some illustrations in our trial what I mean when I say anything went. Some of you younger people who remember the Warren Court where the Warren Court stood up for the rights of people the rights of the Menard. Please remember the brown decision 1954 equal education and all of that. Might have the wrong impression of the Supreme Court. The history of Supreme Court is one where they consistently it consistently prize the rights of property over the rights of people. And I say this because one of my lawyers is recently written a book the amendment that refused to Die the 14th Amendment where he traces the history of the 13th 14th and 15th amendment to show how the Supreme Court perverted it completely. And you know yourself the 15th amendment was supposed to give the black people the right to vote but yet until very recently in history. The black people were not allowed to vote and two states use every way they could to get around the Fifteenth Amendment and the Supreme Court allow them to do it the Fourteenth Amendment was I was supposed to be for to process of law for all people and yet in many states the Menards he's would not given due process and a supreme court and didn't do anything about it, but I haven't had a supreme court did use the 14th Amendment for giving corporations certain rights, which the people who passed the 14th Amendment never meant for them to have And it is that way today with the Supreme Court. So what I'm saying is you you must not look at the Supreme Court as the protector of the rights of people and certainly in our case the Supreme Court did not take on that role. To speak about trials a frame-up is is an understatement. I say that because yes, it's true. It was a frame-up but it was much more than a frame of it was a political trial. And when we get to the question of a political trial if it gets kind of sticky because in history most of us unless we've had very special tea have learned that political trials only take place over there. They don't take place here here when a man has tried and cost he's tried because he violated a law and this is not a political trial. So with this sort of a education it becomes very difficult. To think in terms of political trials, but I'll try to outline what I think all the political trials which took place in the past the broaden our country and try to bring them up to the present here. I don't know if any of you are acquainted with a Dreyfuss case that took place in France in the last century with Dreyfuss ended up on Devil's Island that finally when someone was able to prove that the documents that convicted him with forged he was returned to France and free. This was the political trial of that time, but are not country. We've also had trials like when I was your age the blue big political trial that I knew about Was the two of them as a matter of fact the booty of Billings trial and the Sacco and Vanzetti trials took place during World War 1. These were labor agitators who is supposed to throw the bomb and the sacco-vanzetti case. This was Massachusetts case of two anarchists was supposed to have killed a yet. Yeah. I pay master or not. Hold up in Braintree, Massachusetts. This was as I say booty of those are supposed to throw in a bomb and sycophant said he was supposed to kill somebody during a holdup, but actually the cases would not the question of throwing a bomb that question of a hold up. The cases were clinical trials in a bigger sense and I say or what is a political trial. Well, let me put it to you this way. You tried to turn with a person is guilty or innocent. Well clinical trial that is not really the question in a political trial there is no the person is convicted before going to trial. in a clinical trial the purpose of the trial is for the government the government wants to formula or to demonstrate State policy and it uses a political trial as a vehicle. For demonstrating that state policy State policy, maybe both domestic or maybe Farm. The truth of the matter is that I during the trial as well as Julius and Ethel did not fully appreciate the implications of our trial. I guess we were too much involved in it. You know, when you're in the forest you see the trees rather than the forest. I guess that's pretty much how it was. But if we had been more acutely aware of History, we might have understood it. Let me give an example when Hitler came to power in Germany. He felt that he had to unify the people against a common enemy. This this is the ploidy established with always uses when it is threatened. It sets up some common enemy and a drought is the people to defeat that, So what did he do? He burn down the rush stock and he blamed the Communist for it and he stays the show trial. And tried to get everybody to show while he was a communist that the enemy of the German people and everybody should be aware of this and this was the beginning, of course after he succeeded in suppressing the Communist next became the labor labor unions than the Jews liberals and I think it was about half a revered Bond offering to send Bob Harper hoodie and said there was no one left in the end the protest because of each case what he came after a certain group. The other people said, well, that's them. He's not attacking us. 10 person that the recent a book that appeared some Years Ago by knives are on this case call the implosion conspiracy irony of you acquainted with it. Nicer info and telling about the childhood of Julius Rosenberg tells how Julius Rosenberg childhood the reichstag trial play a big part and two nicer. It was a question, but that the reichstag trial was a political trial. But yet this same nicer who understood that deny that trial was also a political trial again. It's easier to see it abroad than at home. The thing, of course that kicked it off was the loss of what are politicians thought was the A-bomb Monopoly a 1949 CR frequently caught in their own propaganda. They have been propagandizing the people for so long that the Russians were just a country of peasants that they believe their own propaganda despite the fact that the physicist in this country told him at 45 you do we do not have a monopoly on the A-bomb that the Russians will have it in five years because if this is in this country and you look what this is in Russia have been doing And they knew that physicists in any country with a sufficient industrial capacity could manufacture and a bomb within so many years. They underestimated it took the Russians only 4 years. with the loss of the 8-ball Monopoly the Establishment in washing really felt frightened and threatened Monopoly if we have the ball Monopoly that we could dictate policy to any other country, but the way they thought it didn't quite work out that way but the point is they felt more secure politicians with that monopolies, but once I didn't have the Monopoly they would genuinely upset. And the question came what to do about well. The thing to do at that point as they formulated was to Rally the people around a common enemy. I tried to give you a couple of examples of the history of that time. In 1950 in elementary schools. I know what elementary school is because my younger daughter was going to school at that time. They have with a gold atom bomb raid drills. You know, what an atom bomb re-drill is an atom bomb redrill is will you couch into a fetal position and get under your desk at school? And this was a sometimes they would go into the whole way. But many of times it would get under the desk. And this was an atom bomb raid drill. Now I ask you. What the purpose of the atom bomb redrill to protect the children? Obviously, not then what was it? Many children went home at night that had nightmares because of what the children had the teacher had told them about the atom bombs. That might be coming from Russia. What they did with the children so easily was more difficult with the adults. Obviously. They wanted to frighten the children with the adults. They frighten them by the propaganda. Then what the Russians had these missiles. With the Farms loaded in them and set to fall on the United States and that we have to do something about this and the trial was used as a vehicle for frightening the adults in this country. it succeeded Beyond I think the wireless expectations of those who promoted it because after this trial people who before had been vocal in their Descent of government policy were effectively silenced and of course the school, you know, the children of the 50s. I know the children of the silent generation. because this time To beat to be at the center was to risk being labeled a communist and to be labeled a communist meant to be labeled a traitor. This was the equation. The scent was equation equated to communist and calmness was equated the traitor during the Vietnamese War. There was a lot of dissent about the Vietnamese why I don't know how much of it there was on this campus, but I know that I went down a Washington one time in 1971 in April. There were half a million people there who were telling the government that they did not believe that the Vietnamese War was a just War but during the Korean war that we're not there was no such demonstrations against the Korean War. And the reason can be found in this trial the fact that as a result of this trial people were frightened the protesting against the Korean War. You might ask Will. How come you listen Ethel I were the ones that were tried. Well, I'll tell you really they didn't Envision the trial as a trial of Julius and Ethel it myself. They arrested us or they arrested me. And the first thing they told me was that I face the death penalty unless I quote cooperate. I'll tell you what they mean by cooperation later. What they wanted me to do at that point was to point a finger at as many other people as they could get me two to get them involved in this conspiracy and this they also wanted of Julius and Ethel. the fact that Julius and Ethel did not point a finger and the fact that I did not point a finger and the fact that they went around and could not Involve anybody else in this conspiracy left them with a conspiracy of the three of us. At the matter fact is that during the trial? I was not even accused of having been involved in the remotest way with the atom bomb and that's why I'm alive and here talkin to today because I sure you if it's any one of their Witnesses had any way implicated me with the atom bomb. I wouldn't be here today. But when I went to trial, I didn't know that but I went to trial I thought I was going to be accused of atomic conspiracy. But I spoke with the people since and these people have told me how the FBI work on them to try to get them questioning before grand jury try to get them accused of having been involved in the atomic conspiracy or in any other conspiracy and they just couldn't get any witnesses to testify against them at our trial. It was not a question of evidence. There was no evidence produced. I'll go into that later. It was a question only of other witnesses that case of Julius and Ethel it was a case of that brother-in-law and sister-in-law Ethel's brother and sister-in-law who pointed the finger at them in my case. It was my erstwhile best friend who pointed finger with me and that was it there was no evidence. So what the FBI needed at this time, they couldn't get evidence was for people to point an accusing finger and other People and this is what they tried desperately to do. Oh, I don't know if I should go I guess a little bit into my background. You see you might find it difficult to believe but let me tell you I went to City College and 34383. 438 was a very special time. It was a depression then and it was a pressure like you can't begin to imagine that was talk to 7% unemployment. Have you any idea what percent the unemployment was back then take a guess? Why was Route 20 closed to 30% unemployment? So if people are worried about 7% can you imagine what 30% unemployment must have been like? I'm an engineer and I consider myself a rational person and the situation was like this you have children who didn't have shoes. I never had you had shoe factories that was standing idle. And you had true Baker's weren't allowed to work in the shoe factories. So I really couldn't understand these things to me. It was very simple. If you get the leather from the cows that were there that would being slaughtered by the tennis that have the hide and the shoemaker's to make the shoes that you could feed it. Then you can put shoes out of children and I really couldn't understand, this. Of course, they could explain why this couldn't be done. But I was an economist. I was just a dumb engineer and I really couldn't understand it and it's that time of the campus there was only one organization. That was the young communist league. So I got by radical indoctrination there and matter fact if I tell you a half of our electrical engineering class belong to the young communist League at that time. Enda so later when I went to work down and wash and I still I join the Communist party and I was a member to 1941 when I went back to school at Michigan and that was the end. In 47 when I went to work for a company I had to sign an affidavit, which said that I'd never been a member of any organization dedicated to the overthrow of the government by force and violence to it the Communist Party. Well, I figured I'd let's blast be remembered 41. This was 4760 years 6 years is practically the same as never. So I signed the affidavit, you know without thinking to it, but a 1951 they began to arrest people for having falsely signed affidavit. I really got that worried my wife and also sign a simple life of David and so we decided to take a little vacation down to Mexico. It wasn't really a vacation. We decide to go down there and things going to cool off. Maybe maybe maybe I don't know but we decide to go down there and see what would happen. End of The Observers I was kid that back here by the FBI. And then they claim that my trial that has gone down there to escape prosecution on the charger, which they tried me that is conspiracy to commit espionage. Let me tell you a little bit about the trial why in a clinical trial the laws do not apply. You see the courts are not see the courts like to protect you. Don't do it. The judges. They wear these black robes. You don't why they wear the black robes. How about this? They try to impress the people or their people that they're above it all you know, but they're not really they're very much affected by the community pressures affect the same as you and I buy everything that affect us that's going on in this country. What we were brought to trial. Julius and Ethel myself. We were really completely isolated. We were alone people that we had known before my friends at work when my wife went to talk to them. They go away and they call up the FBI and told the FBI hell until Bell came to see me. They were protecting themselves. You see they were afraid maybe the FBI had seen Helen talk to them and then got good goodness knows what the FBI would report so they would call the FBI and tell them that he'll so Bella come to talk to them. So our families to buy us our lawyers. A lot of beer lawyer friends deserted them. So we went to trial fairly isolated. We didn't have any committee. We did certainly didn't have any money. I had a house was mostly mortgage and I sold it and we pay the lawyer with what we had. The lawyers I had with the lawyers of my choice. It was the only lawyers I could get what lawyer had was a real estate lawyer that you might say. What what is a real estate lawyer get What's the Warriors wouldn't take the case. They wouldn't touch it. Directly several profile that took place simultaneously. First of all, there was a trial in the courtroom. And then there was a trial out the newspapers. Is he during our trial everyday? The DEA would go out after the trial and tell the newspapers what he had proved in court that day and what he was going to prove tomorrow. So this was going on throughout a trial? Put in a courtroom. They were also several trials going on. The charge was conspiracy to commit Espionage. That's the violation of a certain statue. But actually that wasn't the way the trial was running the courtroom and a Corporal the prosecutor every time kept yelling treason, treason traitors and every Roman he could even his opening speech there doesn't times when it was what he called us traitors. Well, it's ironic because the Constitution. Define stress as a matter of fact, it's the only crime defined in the Constitution. And I asked you is it purely by happenstance that reasons to find a constant? Why was treason defined in the Constitution? You studied history. do any story of Snow White reason is the only crime defined in the Constitution well, You see in historic times whenever a monarch wanted to squelch any opposition. He would call them traitors and try them for treason. Was simple. Most recent reason was anything he chose to Define. So that's why you did it. So our founding father said well. True. We got a legislature and all of that but maybe sometimes they're going to get all upset and they're going to pass a law that the fine trees. There's anything they want to choose it to make it. And we don't like that. So to protect the people against the legislature legislating prison laws of treason and Times of national hysteria. We are going to define treason in the Constitution. Now they can so easily. Passed laws redefine increase now you have to pass a constitutional amendment and everybody knows you can't pass a constitutional amendment just like that. It takes a long time and maybe if they try to pass a constitutional amendment by the time they get the thing past the hysteria will have worn off. But unfortunately the safeguards which the founding fathers set up against being tried for treason didn't work in our case because even though the charge was conspiracy to commit Espionage in effect in that caught we were being tried for treason, so we weren't even give him the safeguards that the constitution provides to people or try the priest. The prosecution had it both ways. They they they use the Cry of trees to whip up the jewelry and the people outside. But they didn't give us the safeguards that a person tried for treason is supposed to have freezing you have to have two witnesses to the same over attacked. It says on the Constitution and of course in my case, there wasn't even one over attack than it was even one witness. So let alone two witnesses the same overt Act So as I say it in a court review had this trial with several levels, you have the technical level you had the other level of communist traitor you see which was the real trial because this I'm sure is how the jewelry sort. As a result of this trial I've indicated before. there was You know. At this. There were a lot of people thought that we were going to have fascism in this country. but we did and the reason we didn't really have fascism in this country is That as a result of this trial the people became so frightened. And The Descent became so minimal. That the establishment so no reason to Institute fascism Implement fascism. The only time that they would Implement fascism in this country would be if they felt that they were threatened and they could not control the threat within the framework of the democracy. See if somebody comes to parents as I want to have fascism this country that is no way it worked that we have normally a democracy. We have a degree of freedom of speech. We didn't have it in that. We didn't have freedom of the press then. It's all very nice. As long as the establishment does not feel threatened. But if they should feel threatened when they will institute repressive measures and if those repressive measures don't work that they will but the fact of the matter is that this burden history the repressive measures did work. And it was necessary to go a step further. I like to date the beginning of the breaking of McCarthyism with the Birmingham. That's Birmingham. But the Montgomery Alabama bus boycott. Because this was the first time we saw this was 1956. We saw a real Mass protests on the part of the people against any policy. since after the last war how true it was only a local Affair but still in all it was a protest against government policy you might find it difficult to examine for a moment down south until this time. The backs had to go into the back of the bus. Even if the front was empty in the back was all feel they had to go to the back of the bus. You think how come the Supreme Court didn't strike that down as unconstitutional and yet they did. but it was the birthday of the Alabama bus boycott that really started a tremendous wave of black protest movement which you know Evolve into the Civil Right protest and to the various marches the Poor People's March in Washington. And I think it's very fortunate for our country that we had a Warren court at that time. Which realized? That the posture of the United States as it existed with all the repression of the blacks and all the other minorities could not go on much longer. Because it to the rest of the week and the rest of the world there was a Revolution going on. And the underdeveloped countries and for us to continue in our past ways would have made us seem absolutely ludicrous in the eyes of the rest of the world. And this was like the motivating force behind the Warren courts decision to support the movements of the black people at this time towards gaining equality. of course after the black people protested against their treatment the second-class citizens other minorities followed suit and American natives in Chicago's and the trials that took place around these protest movements were every bit as much political trials as a trial at our trial was asking if down in Birmingham when Rosa Parks was arrested for refusing to go to the back of a bus and she was tried. Was that a criminal trial in the conventional sense know that was a political was to try to Frightened the rest of the black people to prevent them from taking a similar position. UC The song to build a is North too, but the sound was more manifest a whole structure of law Law & Order which was based upon the inferior position of the black person and whenever a trial took place on one of these issues that could not be called a criminal trial because the purpose of that trial was to perpetuate that political position of the minardi's. What the trial of the Indians took place in Wounded Knee? Wasn't that a political trial? Because what was involved there was a fact that here we have been sending Indians American natives to concentration camps that you called reservations all these years where the children died very young where the average age longevity was only a half of what it was the rest of the United States. And this has been going on from time immemorial and now when the American natives protested this treatment, they tried on criminal charges. And you'll find that all of these trials of people are protesting. Are always on criminal charges? Today when I say today, I don't mean it in the general sense. I mean literally today in Wilmington North Carolina a hearing has begun five years ago 10 black forgiving atoll. 280 years in prison for burning down some barns with some horses and that whoever heard of 10 people getting to an 80 years for bring on some barns with horses. This was obviously a political trial these 10 black people not just 10 what three people these were activists to a fighting for black people. Sunny in Germany Hitler burn down the reichstag down south that burn down a barn with horses in it. $3, he hadn't really struck me until today but why the hell happened in the interim is that the three main prosecution witnesses have recanted their testimony. They have told how the prosecution got them to lie. So the whole again hearing down south in in the in Wilmington is a foregone conclusion. The courts will hold that the witness. Open exactly how the scriptures can go to court to hold that the Witnesses are wrong. Now that they told the truth before at the trial and then they even arrest the witnesses for perjury at this time. Because now with the Witnesses are saying that they got them to lie. The Corporal say they are lying. This is what's going to happen. So after that, the next stage will be to appeal to the federal court and if all is well and another five years maybe the Wilmington 10 May finally have Justice after 10 years in prison. So, you know when people sometimes ask quit the Rosenberg trial take place today the answers. What do you mean could have taken place that it is taking place today only shifted. Instead of two people or three people being tried for transmitting bombs to the Soviet Union 10 people would try for burning down a stable with horses. But the reason for the trial was still the same the reason for the Wilmington trial what's to put fear into the hearts of the black people black people? Does anybody know how? You don't even have a lynching. That would have a lynching. And I tell you when they had a lynching that night. The black people in the South every one of them there was fear and their hearts when I was a kid. I remember these headline in the paper lynching. You don't know one was ever convicted of a lynching down south. No one was ever convicted. They wanted to make it a federal crime, you know, what would happen the southern Senators with filibuster could pass legislation to make lynching a federal crime. So true that have the word a couple of lynching separately, but I think by the end of the thirties buy a large lynching was no longer An approved method of putting fear into the hearts of the blacks. Now that would have to be done through the courts as in the Wilmington 10. But the situation has changed now the prince has the two defendants at Wounded Knee the Chicago defendants the Black Panther to New York to name a few in these cases that brought back the verdict of innocent. Why well, the obvious reason is we no longer have McCarthyism with us now and the people are no longer afraid. More important a process has taken place since our trial. In the sixties as a result of what happened down south. You got a breed of lawyers still consult was I recently spoke. Here's one of them. He was one of my lawyers subsequent around 1966. These lawyers became aggressive in court and pushed back the boundaries of what was permissible. Is it before when a lawyer would try to bring out at a trial of the extraneous circumstances that may have contributed to the situation the junk be prosecuted would yell that that's what should be not permitted and the judge would uphold the prosecutor and that would be the end of it but these lawyers stuck out their neck and would go ahead and get it admitted into the before the jewelry anyway, And as a result, they were able to put your push back the boundaries of what was permitted not only that but in the 60s and the 70s with anyone got arrested immediately a committee would spring up if they're not people around to their defense to stop publicizing a case. They would raise money. And more important when that person went to court it would be a lot of his friends in court and believe me these judges that black robes when you have your friends in court they know it and they can act as brazenly as they do when you don't have your friends in court. That's very important when anybody goes to court that has a lot of friends in court. As a result of that. What happened? Was that the Lawyers began to politicize the jurors and I know this because of the case of the panther case in New York. I have two words. I met at a party with some of the jurors and they told us how when they went to the trial initially. They were just ordinary people but it's a trial went on they have to date week after week at all. These Furious battles took place in a courtroom. They became educated and they began to understand what the issues truly were. As a result of this that they brought back a verdict of innocent. Unfortunately, it isn't in all cases that jurors are able to be politicised. It's only in cases where you have some of these highly political lawyers. It is only in cases where you have a good strong committee backing you and we have a lot of your friends in court. After every one of the cases in which the people are acquitted with a verdict of innocent ask for Angela Davis case, there are hundreds of thousands of cases where people are convicted because there just isn't the means to bring attention to all of the cases that take place in our country today. It our time the enemies of the establishment at least as a visual eyes it where the Communists today the enemies of the establishment other minorities parties who whose hopes have been raised? But whose dreams and aspirations are so far from realization? That get that some of them get a little bit impatient. It's ironic that the Menards cheese. Out here in the free population become majorities in prison, the majority of the people in prison today are blacks in America native Puerto, Ricans. As a matter of fact that the longest held political prisoners in the United States at 5 Puerto. Ricans have been held since 1953 one of whom I know Raphael Miranda. He was young man when he went to prison. And they've been held in prison since then. Another phenomenon is taking place which really is noteworthy because it's something which The Establishment never foresaw. And that is when people get together and prison, you know, there isn't very much to do there. They talk a lot to each other. And what has happened is that if you have one bad seeds bad seeds I put in quotations that is one political person. He can politicize all the other prisoners and this is what happened in Attica. where they had that Rebellion And this is a problem which The Establishment has tried to face and has difficulty. Of course one of their ways of getting around that is to keep down the size of the prison. So if there is a rebellion, it won't take place with too many. I don't know if you're aware, but present plans call for doubling of the number of beds in prison by 1985. And I asked you why are they planning to double the number of beds in prison in the next eight years? Because today we are facing the same problem as that which confronted our founding fathers the one that they refused to face the one that was responsible for the Civil War. That unless we come to grips. With the problem of what are we really going to do about our second class citizens? No giving them. Equal opportunity is really not enough. Can you imagine suppose after the last war the Jews that returned to Germany were told by the Germans you can have equal opportunity but no more will give you any compensation for past and justices we won't we won't recognize that we are guilty of any wrongs that we did to you but you can have equal opportunity with the rest of us supposed Germans have told the Jews that in Germany and 19 after the last war what would the rest of the world have said about it? I mean it was obvious. It seems obvious to me that that that that we wouldn't we wouldn't have permitted any anything like that and yet this is practically the same thing that we are doing this country. We enslave the blacks for hundreds of years. And then for another hundred years, we kept the and other subjugation as sharecroppers as second-class Citizens and I will tell him you could have equal rights, but when you apply to a college you have to have the same grades as the wife who has come from a much more cultured home has much more to change your background and until such time as you acquire all the background and the paraphernalia that the white has you will have to live with it ain't important decisions for east facing the Supreme Court decision that arose out of California. where Becky says that 16 blacks who got into college with grades lower than his should not have gotten in because he's titled to go to college because it's only a question of grades and a Supreme Court is going to have to decide do we really need affirmative action in this country and we say so or we only kidding The Joker Is that the Supreme Court is going to make this decision on the basis of presumably on the basis of Technical and legal opinions, but this is not a legal matter, this is a political matter but they're going to dress it up in a lot of legal ease and have them to learn a decision and the other Joker is and and and you can imagine I mean the kind of Judges that that somebody like him and of course if you look if you look at this, you can really verify that I'm not too concerned at present about the Rosenberg show Bell case being reopened at this time. We're getting the files and as we get more more of the files more mortar teams coming out. They'll be more plays written on the case. They'll be more movies produced to be more TV scripts. I'll be more poems and it's inevitable in history that the people will begin to the people will begin to understand what really transpired in 1951. To Dish Network that you really can't help them. Me I'm really off parole. What happened June of last year. Once this dirt start to come out in the files. I've been on parole and what I was on Parole, I have the right to go back into court and challenge the Judgment under habeas corpus. But I got frightened when I saw the stuff coming out and especially when they heard me talk to my lawyer about going back into court. So one day I got a call around 5:17 for my prostate your off parole immediately took me off probably weren't doing me a favor. I can't go back into court to channel to channel 2 Judgment anymore. You see and this was why why they did it. So I'm really not too concerned about myself either but I am apprehensive about what the attitudes of White America towards are monarchies. And I feel that unless we recognize our Collective guilt. And it's not a collective guilt in the sense that we did anything wrong. But in the sense that the German of the collective guilt of the German people that they didn't do anything about something which they knew about it that sense unless we do something about a collective guilt in a pressing the minority's and we do something about rectifying the situation that we're going to be in for some rough times and next. Ahead. It's not going to get better. I'm sorry that I have to sound such a pessimistic note but I'm saying unless we do something about it. And I know that it's not the older people are going to do something about it because they're too ingrained in their views. They have too much at stake for people has lived with Anna Justice for so many decades. They have too much of an investment. They can say suddenly I was wrong. I should have done something about it. But the younger people don't have that investment and it's the younger people who at this time in history, the situation. So I say to you Rosenberg case is taking place today. The only thing is you have to open your eyes up a little wide to see the forms in which it is taking place at to understand the implications and what the future holds for us all. Thank you.